Joseph Price
Joseph Ray Price, born in March, 1971, is one of three defendants facing charges of conspiracy to obstruct justice in the murder of Robert Wone.
Joe Price earned his undergraduate degree in public policy from the College of William and Mary, graduating in 1993. It was there he first met Robert Wone, where they both served in student government, and the two formed a lasting friendship. Joe Price continued his studies at the University of Virginia law school, later serving a clerkship for Judge Norman Moon of the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Virginia.
Mr. Price has long been involved in gay rights advocacy, serving as past President of the UVA Gay and Lesbian Alumni Association. Later, he helped found and served from 2002 to 2006 as general counsel for Equality Virginia, a gay rights advocacy group, an association he has since ended. He continues to litigate high profile gay rights cases, including Miller vs. Jenkins, which was recently profiled in this Newsweek article.
Personally, Mr. Price has resided in the District for over a decade; most of that time in a committed partnership with Victor Zaborsky. Price and Zaborsky have shared houses on Capitol Hill, on Swann Street, and currently live together on 16th Street in the District. Mr. Price has also shared a “…personal, intimate…” relationship with Dylan Ward for four to five years. While Price and Ward alone shared a sexual relationship, Zaborsky described the three as comprising “…a family,” adding that Ward does “not really…share an equal part in the relationship, but we’re trying to develop it that way.” Price and Zaborsky have also expanded their familial relations as detailed here in this USA Today story from 2004.
Mr. Price joined Arent Fox in 1998, becoming a partner in 2006. While there he has worked in several areas, notably specializing in intellectual property litigation, trademark and copyright disputes. He has argued for clients such as AOL and Mars in federal court, and also had a significant pro bono practice. For example he was the lead Arent Fox lawyer representing the Central Union Mission, a homeless shelter, in litigation that threatens the shelter’s real estate deal with the District. While awaiting trial, he retains his position of partner at the law firm Arent Fox LLP, and is officially listed as being on leave of absence.
Is anybody going to talk about Price’s drug addiction? I think it is pretty well known. It’s been going on at least since the late nineties. Not that it means he’s a murderer but he would get extremely angry sometimes on that stuff. Scarily so.
This allegation is not well known to me – please, if you (or anyone else) have first hand knowledge, educate us. Addicted to what? How do you know? For how long? Specifics of use and behavior while using? Etc. Thank you.
He’s a white, an attorney, therefore, cocaine.
David and Mark – if you have first hand (or even reliable second hand) info about Joe’s drug issues, it would be helpful to know more. It sounds like David has heard something specific, but Mark, is your statement that his drug of choice cocaine based on something (other than the “notion” that you state)? If he’s been standing too close to the crack pipe for a while, that would be interesting; if he does X (or something else) recreationally, that would be interesting too but David’s use of “addiction” doesn’t suggest that. I know that the DA made a point of singling Price out in relation to drug use but there’s not been any subsequent info. Thanks.
Substance abuse is obviously a delicate issue but I can tell you a few things. In a previous life I would hang out at “A List” after hours parties. There was no BDSM at these parties. I’m talking about parties where Banana Republic is viewed as clothing for poor people. And these parties were very late at night- after clubs closed. I can state for the record that two of three folks (you guess who was absent or never there) at these parties greatly enjoyed- primarly METHod coffee to stay awake, second ex, and then vitamin G.
I personally never witnessed any special K cereal at breakfast as many have speculated but that would conflict with vitamin G-those two do not get along, this is well known. Any good circuit boy would know to never mix these two. Vitamin G is like water at these parties- it is cheap and easily made, it has a calming or depressant effect that balances all of the effects that coffee gives. Special K cannot be made it is a brand product that must be purchased whereas vitamin G can be made in one’s home. Doeses of vitamin G back then were ten bucks and one would last for a good long time. It would give a really nice buzz when combined with the coffee.
Sorry, but spell it out for me. Your point, relevant to this case, is what?
I get the relevance but am at a loss as to what G actually is.
I’m not sure but when I was in college I was always told to stay away from these two items in chemistry class-
Gamma-butyrolactone Gamma-hydroxybutyric
OK, GHB I can see that, but not meth (surely)?
Maybe I am old but where I live meth is a very lower class drug (think of the known negative effects on the gums and teeth) it actually has ground up match heads as an ingredient (ick!) I understand. I do however think that that people who disdain Banana Republic as beneath them might also try to be certain that there was enough vitamin C in their diet though.
just sayin’
It’s a weekend thing for most people so they are not doing it every day. Just google meth and gay and DC and read. Meth is extremely popular in the gay community.
Meth and crack sound so… so… well, not Mercedes, Mercedes, Mercedes. Call it Tina and you have a whole new outlook on things!
Exactly Carolina!
Joseph Price is an attorney and an officer of the court. Is he not required to cooperate with a criminal investigation? Since he did not why hasn’t disbarment procedures been invoked?
Attorneys retain their Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination even if charged with a crime. The DC Bar ethics rules do not provide that “taking the Fifth” constitutes moral turpitude. Mr. Price was acquitted of the charges brought against him and currently is not under indictment for any criminal offense. As far as I know, no complaint has been filed against him with the DC Bar Association.
Mark, that’s called stereotyping.
He’s a freak….a freak…a big freak
Joe Price is a true thug. This is a man who literally threw my property out on the street, not allowing me to get moving help from my family or others, even took my dog to the DC pound, auctioned my furniture on the street in front of me while I called police, personally stole and used my kitchen table for his own then Capitol Hill digs AND lied to the Court about seeing me in Georgetown on an afternoon when there was a hearing I could not attend.
Later, he spearheaded my imprisonment in the DC Jail FOR 17 MONTHS by contacting other landlords who had locked me out, taken my air conditioning, etc. for failure to pay rent…HE IS THE KILLER AND HE DESERVES TO GO TO JAIL FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.
The three guys acted like a little gang, walking shoulder to shoulder on the sidewalk in front of his apartment rental at 17th and R Streets NW, like jack booted thugs, actually sporting boots and ear to ear grins, they pushed past me as I sat on the edge of the sidewalk literally crying over the loss of family pictures which he auctioned off in their frames, and the confinement of my dog at the DC Pound (lucky I got him back!).
He shows no empathy for others and should be given none. HE DESERVES TO BE CHARGED WITH MURDER AND GO TO JAIL FOR A VERY, VERY LONG TIME. I APPLAUD THE PROSECUTERS IN THIS CASE, AND HOME BERNIE GRIMM IS ASHAMED OF HIMSELF FOR EVEN TAKING THIS CASE.
I PRAY FOR TRUE JUSTICE FOR ROBERT WONG, WHO I HAVE NO DOUBT DIED AT THE SICK, TWISTED HANDS OF JOE PRICE AND HIS ENTOURAGE GANG. YOU DO NOT GET A FREE PASS JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE GAY.
Joe may well be guilty of the crimes of which he is accused, but I am not prepared to hang him for discarding your air conditioner while you were in jail.
This person is a kook. Not a chance in hell Victor would do something like the above. I knew him for a year in 1999. Nicest person in the office. Not in his character. He was optimistic and humble. A total class act. He’s innocent.
From comments section of WAPO article:
deejoshy wrote:
It amazes me that they keep talking about Michael Price’s drug issues when it is Joe Price who is the drug addict. He was constantly snorting drugs at the Apex club near Dupont Circle and doing as many men as he could in the bathroom there right in front of all the patrons. It is common knowledge.
I have considered for a very long time, and have said so on this site, that drug and alcohol abuse are the drivers in this crime and I always meant Joe’s drug and alcohol abuse with Michael’s being maybe a secondary driver and not least Dylan’s as well.
[...] the comments sections earlier this week, a friend of Joe Price’s checks [...]
Is anyone else disturbed that these two had children? I am all for equal rights and gay couples adopting, but who in there right mind would have the children of two men who are openly in a three-way kink relationship with the possibility of drug involvement? The drug use has come up as a comment several times on this site and seems to be known among the community these two men come from. I feel terrible for the two kids, talk about growing up confused and teased. If it wasn’t your to fat or skinny or you have two dads, they are now going to get picked on because they have two dads with a boyfriend and are involved in a murder investigation. I hope these kids survive highschool.
The defendants “three-way” relationship wasn’t public knowledge until the murder. Dylan was only known as a roommate.
I would venture to say that the mothers of the children didn’t know about the alleged drug use.
cd,
actually, it was not that much of a secret. i only knew the defendants through a previous job that i had so it was a pretty superficial acquaintance. and there it was common knowledge.
but i sure hope you’re right about the mothers’ knowledge of their drug use.
I would also venture to say that is is equally true with heterosexual fathers of all types (in vitro and the regular way); in fact it’s statistically much more true. Hey kid, your dad’s in prison, a drunk sleeping on the street, a known drug dealer, a mobster, a convicted killer, a creep with images of child pornography on his computer … the list is endless actually. Do I conclude from this that all heterosexual men are a bad risk?
That said I do think that these kids definitely drew the short straw in life’s lottery in some significant ways though I can’t see how the mother could have foretold that.
Traveling back and forth in time, I dare say that the Price-Zaborsky children will have a “better” childhood than the oldest Price brothers, regardless of the outcome of this case. And, that comparison means probably that the Price-Zaborsky children, regardless of their ultimate vocations or orientations, will turn out to be model citizens trying to be everything that their fathers were not. So, we won’t have to rehash all of this with a new case in 2037!
This is the first I have heard about children. Are their more details?
BTW Being born to a irresponsible parent or a responsible parent does not reflect on the child itself. Fortunately in this country we do not inherit our parents’ debts to society and fortunately, I hope, the children are being raised by their mothers. The kids are a side story… an interesting side story.
What I would be more interested in knowing is what type of childhoods the defendants lived. Wards father is a prestigious cardiologist in Maryland. Price’s brother, with the brother’s lover, broke into the house and stole electronic items allegedly to purchase drugs. Heavily into S/M, a triple instead of a couple, over achievers, and parties to one of the most infamous crimes in recent Washington history.
wanted to get email when message was answered
Not just parents, but self described role models:
http://www.usatoday.com/life/lifestyle/2004-03-09-gay-parents_x.htm
It saddens me that there are societal forces that would use this case to argue against gay families thus making life that much harder for many (including some in my own family) who have unconventional family structures based on the actions of these (to my mind) statistically anomalous men and their actions.
The societal forces’ demagoguery must be faced head on. This is one incident in a world of many incidents including heterosexuals (see dreamndemon.com). That type of crap is the food of sheep. What percentage of gays have attacked house guests? What percentage of Muslims have blown innocent people to death? How many black urbanites have actually committed hand gun crimes? What percentage of whites owned black slaves in the antebellum southern United States? Most people, contrary to untested allegations, are good and work very well in society. The male and female gay advocates of the last several decades paid a terrible cost to get this point across to people with tainted views. We cannot allow our lives to be stained with the BS of ignorance.
Error: How many black urbanites have actually committed hand gun crimes?
Correction: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF black urbanites have actually committed hand gun crimes?
THESE CHILDREN SHOULD BE TAKEN AWAY FROM THESE TWISTED SICKOS FOR GOOD.
THE CHILDREN SHOULD BE TAKEN AWAY FOR GOOD. WHY HAVEN’T THEY BEEN; THERE IS AN ENTIRE HISTORY OF LIES TO THE COURT, DRUG USE AND SICK BEHAVIOR HERE, FALLING FAR OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THE “GAY LIFESTYLE” THEY TRY TO CLING TO FOR POLICITAL PROTECTION. HE SICKENS ME.
I knew a Joe Price when I worked at a small law firm in Richmond. He was a summer intern when I was a paralegal. The timeframe was the mid-1990s. I learned that Joe had taken a job as an associate at Arent Fox when he graduated from law school. I am wondering whether this young man was the same Joseph Price who is now in such a bind. Would anyone know? I can provide the name of the law firm. I really thought highly of the Joe Price whom I knew professionally. I thought he was very personable and kind.
I guess you cannot tell from his picture above whether it’s the same person you knew? While he is somewhat non-descript looking, I would think it would be enough for a person to tell if they knew him or not…
I cannot tell for sure. The person I knew was a very slight, slender person when he was in his 20s, and it’s been so long.
It’s the same Joe Price. Joe spent his first year as a lawyer clerking for a U.S. District Court judge in southwest Virginia (judicial clerkships, particularly federal ones, are coveted jobs) before moving to D.C. to join Arent Fox as an associate. The fact that Joe landed such a clerkship speaks highly of his intellect.
The fact that he progressed from associate to partner at the same big law firm (a feat that’s increasingly rare in the modern practice of law), speaks highly of his motivation and drive. He is smart, articulate, intense and arrogant beyond belief. Some commentors have used the term “alpha dog” to describe Joe; I would suggest that “alpha dog diva” would be more accurate. Accurate, that is, if you buy into the notion that a complex personality can be summarized in three words or less.
Memo to “Alpha Dog Diva”: confession is a prerequisite to legal (for your lovers), financial (for your parents and Victor), and eternal (for you and perhaps your younger brother) salvation. Do it now!
Perhaps this is the same Joe Price and perhaps it is not.
Re: the real Joe Price, Joe must have had some admirers to become President of the Student Government at William and Mary.
Studies over time of people who are said to “change” during life indicate that they begin destructive behavior (such as increasingly belittling others) and self- destructive behavior in small ways. Unless they stop, it is like a train on a track and it keeps going faster and faster and more and more destructive to themselves and others.
It is the same Joe Price.
I can shed some light on Joe’s “election” to become President of the student government. He had no real competition. His principal opponent had to drop out of the race due to academic pressures, and then multiple opponents stepped in to run. Because the rules didn’t require a majority, only a plurality of votes, Price won with very few of the students (even those few students who voted) actually voting for him.
Sure, Joe had admirers. He also had opponents and detractors.
Skippy, (thanks!) that tidbit is fascinating; particularly when one considers what hay Joe has made over the years of his role in student government at W&M.
A high school friend of mine knew Joe at W&M, said they were friends but that he always kind of scared her because he was “just so intense.”
He looks scary in the photo posted here. Look at the eyes.
I was at W&M with Joe Price, as I can assure you that 99.9 percent of students could give a damn about who ran student government. The other .1 percent were the students who participated in student government. I found Joe Price to be extremely arrogant and a major suck up to anyone he felt could help him achieve whatever he was trying to achieve. You know the type; grownups think they’re the bees knees, while their peers just role their eyes. W&M is full of driven, highly intelligent people who have achieved as much as and more than Joe Price, and without all of his well-documented, less-desirable character traits. Honestly, while this crime shocked me, the fact that Joe Price had a link to it — arguably, even if only as the owner of the scene of the crime — didn’t surprise me at all, and I won’t be surprised years from now if his name is associated with a future scandal.
Hey TWaters, thanks for your recollections.
I don’t know if you’re gay or were connected to gay students then, but Joe has said he wasn’t ‘out’ at W&M but I think he was dating men, only in secret. Did you know he was gay?
It galls me that he’s trumpeted himself as this Great Gay Alum yet when it wasn’t convenient or in his best interest (SGA Prez) he was closeted.
I ‘get’ being young and closeted and afraid, but in giving an interview about being a gay leader for the W&M GBLT Community Project, he didn’t explain (no “I wish I’d had the courage” comments). His commentary was only to disparage the ‘out’ kids in an unflattering tone, essentially saying that there were very few, and they were ‘kooks’ who had purple hair and outrageous clothing (implying that no one would be associated with them).
Curious if you can say anything on this – my guess is that it wasn’t exclusively a tiny way-out-there group. In my experience, many know who is gay without having to wear a GAY AND PROUD t-shirt (or thong!) and just wonder if he was at least among this don’t-ask-don’t-tell contingent or deeply closeted with a girl on his arm.
I can also see Joe not being able to identify with the visible gay element at W&M, especially if he were still confused, but his tone was, as always, arrogant and superior.
“His commentary was only to disparage the ‘out’ kids in an unflattering tone, essentially saying that there were very few, and they were ‘kooks’ who had purple hair and outrageous clothing (implying that no one would be associated with them).”
If he really said this, then I think those “kooks” really should amend their statements to his. There were only a handful of openly gay students at W&M back then, and the more vocal ones had to put up with all sorts of threats and harassment. I remember one very vocal lesbian with dyed hair who was harassed and threatened by a number of people.
You’re the second person to post pretty much the exact sentiments.
Did you know or know of Robert Wone?
TWaters says: ” I found Joe Price to be extremely arrogant and a major suck up to anyone he felt could help him achieve whatever he was trying to achieve.”
There’s a name for that.
Hi TWaters:
Your post says “I was at W&M with Joe Price.” Can you give us more context? I was at my university with thousands of people. Did you know him well? Ever talk to him? Consider yourself friends there? Have any connections with him?
Thanks
It will certainly be a different Joe Price who will be released from prison after doing maximum time when he is 75 years old.
Sure hope you are right John, about the sentence and the resulting changes.
John,
Still think Joe Price copied the stabbing method of Rick Follin. It was not a copy cat murder as you suggested and I never thought it was. I think Mr. Price just copied the method of the stabbing used by Mr. Follin. Mr. Price repeated Mr. Follin’s procedure of inflicting three precise stab wounds to ensure a death. The rest is all open for debate. Look at the autopsy reports. They are just too similar.
-Nels
Nels – what is the explanation for the lack of defensive wounds in the Follin case? This strikes me as supremely important information.
NM,
Please look at autopsy reports for the two Follin girls. Neither of them had defensive wounds, just like Mr. Wone.
-Nels
Nels – of course, I should have thought of that myself. Haven’t looked at it yet, though – instead I read the court’s opinion in STATE OF KANSAS, Appellee, v. RICK E. FOLLIN, Appellant. http://www.kscourts.org/Cases-and-Opinions/opinions/supct/1997/19971031/74874.htm
See my comment below.
The Follin case involves the murder of two very small defenseless female children and has no relevance to this inquiry at all. Nels just thinks he’s conversing with the real John Grisham.
AnnaZed,
I’m giving my honest opinion on this sad case of Robert Wone. I think the Follin case is very relevant and I’m putting it out there for consideration.
That is what this blog was established for. You are entitled to say what you want.
-Nels
Nels,
If you’re right about this, perhaps it was Dylan who did the copying, given his study of the New Yorker death bed article.
John
John,
I don’t think either one of us knows what is really going on in this sad case. But I do believe you are going down a wrong track.
-Nels
Didn’t realize he was still listed as a partner, guess he is hoping he can go back to his old life. Yet more reason to hold everyone together.
Re: the Follin murder case. I apologize in advance for the length of this comment and for the tragic details herein. Also – I’m not a lawyer, not trying to play one on the internet either.
I just read the court’s opinion in STATE OF KANSAS, Appellee, v. RICK E. FOLLIN, Appellant. http://www.kscourts.org/Cases-and-Opinions/opinions/supct/1997/19971031/74874.htm. There is some mention of minor defensive wounds. But that is not what caught my attention. Instead it was an aspect of the appellant’s argument concerning the jury’s finding of aggravated circumstances.
The opinion notes that “The fatal wound for each of the girls perforated her heart. In the pathologist’s opinion, the wounds were inflicted by a person with ‘a knowledge of anatomy to know the location of the heart, and for the knife to be placed between the ribs and not go through the bone.’ ”
On appeal, Follin argued that there was insufficient evidence to justify the jury’s finding of aggravated circumstances (which resulted in the imposition of a “hard 40″ sentence. There are a number of aggravated circumstances spelled out in Kentucky law. Among them is: “The defendant committed the crime in an especially heinous, atrocious or cruel manner.”
During the trial, the prosecution argued that the intent to inflict fatal wounds was proof enough of extreme cruelty, stating: “They had each been stabbed 3 times in the center of their chest. There were no knife holes in their clothing. Their clothes were missing buttons and buttons were found loose in the truck. The defendant had apparently ripped their blouses open in order to expose their chests so that he could see the exact spot in which he wanted to drive the knife he used to kill them. According to the pathologist, these murder[s] were committed by someone with medical knowledge and by someone intent on doing fatal damage to the heart muscle.”
On appeal, the state saw things quite differently. From the opinion: “Follin’s conduct is more susceptible to being interpreted as the perpetrator’s avoiding infliction of serious anguish or physical abuse before the victim’s death.”
Hmm.
Further, during the trial the prosecution, in their closing statement, said: ““What really happened out there? We’ll never know. . . . Who was killed first? I don’t know. Were they outside or inside the truck when they were killed? I don’t know. He says outside. Did one watch the other one be killed? I don’t know. Probably. Did they try to run away, get away from him? I don’t know. Maybe. Was it quick? Did it take long for these little girls to die? I hope not, but I don’t know.”
On appeal, Follin argued that because the exact circumstances of the killings could not be determined beyond a reasonable doubt, the charge of aggravated circumstances was unjustified. The Court found: “The point the prosecutor intended to make was that none of the unanswered questions should prevent the jury from determining that defendant knew what he was doing and knew that it was prohibited by law. Defendant reads the prosecutor’s argument as an admission that the State failed to prove in what manner he killed his daughters and, therefore, failed to prove that he acted in an especially or unusually heinous, atrocious, or cruel manner. Pursuing the argument, defendant concludes that the aggravating circumstance ‘was at best a matter for speculation.’”
This feels relevant to the Wone case… Was forethought given to the possibility of being tried for murder — and precluding “aggravated circumstances” charges? Does our jurisdiction even allow for such charges? The Appeals Court suggested that the method of the killing could indicate an intent to minimize suffering – does that change our thinking on the nature of the three stab wounds?
All this talk of drug use is just that talk until proof can be furnished such as a photo of the person using drugs or numerous sworn witnesses. Otherwise I would take it with a grain of salt. Being they were successful gay men there are others who for reasons of jealousy or hatred would easily start spreading rumors like this to get back at them.
Ecstasy was found in the house, IIRC. And Joe’s profile name was Culuket, like ketamine.
“Culuket, like ketamine” seems like a stretch. Why not Culuket like ketchup or Culuket like kettlebells or Culuket like ketogenic diet? AFAIK there’s no real evidence to be certain that ketamine was the connection when he created that profile name. Isn’t it just somebody’s guess?
I spent thirty plus years around homosexual men and though this story is shocking, it is not surprising.
Homosexuality is a dark force. It affects some more and others less. But it is always a dark force. It is thrilling but it is not right and it is certainly not healthy.
Just in this story alone we hear about extreme kink, drugs, murder, promiscuity and the standard white wash given out to the media and to straight folks. Well I ain’t buying it anymore. I’ve seen too many good people ruined through homosexuality.
MarkF, how and why did you spend “thirty plus years around homosexual men?” Were you in the Church, or were you in the Navy?
professional sports maybe?
MarkF makes a good point. Heck, I spent thirty plus years around straight folk, and you won’t *believe* what I’ve seen! I mean, just pick up today’s paper and check out the evil that straight men and women do. Just on the front page, we have murder, adultery, drugs, promiscuity–you name it, straight people got it. It’s appalling!
After thinking about MarkF’s insightful post, I’m persuaded that heterosexuality is a dark force. It affects some more and orders less. But it is always a dark force. It is thrilling but it is not right and it is certainly not healthy. Think about it: many more straight people die of the “lifestyle” than gay people do. I just ain’t buying the standard white wash given out to the media and to gay folks anymore. I’ve seen too many good peoole ruined by heterosexuality.
The purpose of this bulletin board, as I understand, is to share information and thoughts about an unsolved murder case, not to discuss the relative merits or demerits of any sexual orientation. Any comment that any sexual orientation as such is a dark force runs the risk of starting a flame war and accomplishes nothing useful. Sexuality of any sort has the potential for a dark side, but also has the potential to create loving families.
Please don’t post intolerant comments that may distract from the primary topic, an unsolved murder, by starting a flame war about sexual orientation.
There is sometimes a dark side to heterosexuality. Suggesting that it is a dark force could be seen as blaming the victim, suggesting that Mr. Wone’s heterosexuality led to his murder. Please don’t go down that path.
I’ve seen too many good people (mostly women) ruined through heterosexuality: abused wives, murdered girlfriends (Yeardley Love is one of the latest examples), drugs, promiscuity, etc etc
The purpose of this bulletin board, as I understand, is to share information and thoughts about an unsolved murder case, not to discuss the relative merits or demerits of any sexual orientation. Any comment that any sexual orientation as such is a dark force runs the risk of starting a flame war and accomplishes nothing useful. Sexuality of any sort has the potential for a dark side, but also has the potential to create loving families.
Please don’t post intolerant comments that may distract from the primary topic, an unsolved murder, by starting a flame war about sexual orientation.
I agree with the poster that too many lives have been ruined or ended through dark heterosexuality. Regardless of whether the charges against the defendants are true, too many lives have been ruined or ended through dark homosexuality.
Do we really want to start a flame war about sexual orientation, or to discuss a dark episode in the history of the District of Columbia that may or may not have involved sexual orientation?
The purpose of this bulletin board, as I understand, is to share information and thoughts about an unsolved murder case, not to discuss the relative merits or demerits of any sexual orientation. Any comment that any sexual orientation as such is a dark force runs the risk of starting a flame war and accomplishes nothing useful. Sexuality of any sort has the potential for a dark side, but also has the potential to create loving families.
Please don’t post intolerant comments that may distract from the primary topic, an unsolved murder, by starting a flame war about sexual orientation.
In this case, homosexuality may have had a dark side, but we should not be quick to blame an entire sexual orientation. Even those who believe that homosexuality is unnatural would do well not to pursue that point in a bulletin board where many of the participants are homosexual and where many of the participants are heterosexual.
Please chill out.
Wow, what an apparently ignorant comment. As the sister of a gay brother who has a very wonderful, drama-free life, I beg to differ. Same with all of my gay friends who are happily married and raising families without even a hint of the “dark forces” you mention. Perhaps what you meant to say wasn’t about homosexuals in general (hopefully) but about those with more of a fast/wild lifestyle?
I spent 35 years around a homosexual man who was as stalwart, staid and boringly typical as a greatest generation Defense Department official could be. He was my father.
Homophobia is the dark force that ruins people’s lives, not homosexuality.
Damn straight. Pun intended.
VA Librarian, that made me laugh and cry at the same time. Well said.
From 2007 into 2008 Dyan Ward lived next door to me at Wilton Station, in Fort Lauderdale FL with another gay couple?? Price and Zorbarsky would also come in town once a month or so…. It was know in the complex that all 3 were in a some kind of relationship, but I never saw anything to suggest that drug use or abuse was involved.
Did Price and Zaborsky stay in the same condo with Ward and the other couple during those visits?
Yes. Ward lived their full time with two other men. Price and Zaborsky came into town and stayed in the same condo a 2/2 once a month or so, before they bought a place in MIA.
Here is the strange thing… I now live in DC with my partner and saw Wards picture on the news monday.I was shocked. At Wilton Station, I would speak with Ward at the pool on a regular basis. I can not believe that this is the same person. But it is. very sad.
Why can you not believe it is the same person? How has he changed?
You don’t see the darkness because they won’t let you see it. It’s there, believe me. Just like the reporter of the USA Today article did not see what Price and Zaborsky were really about.
There also is just willful blindness around the subject too. It’s become a sacred cow, something to be worshiped and when ever that happens, honesty is the first casualty.
But the numbers are out there…90% of molestations done by Catholic priests were male on male, a small 2-4% of homosexual men account for about 35% of all molestations committed, more than 50% of gay men in psychotherapy, high rates of suicide, etc.
I don’t expect praise or agreement on this. Homosexuality is a religion, a pagan god, and that is a tough obstacle to overcome.
Talk about missing the forest for the trees. 100% of Catholic priests – molesters or not – are men; 100% of gay men – molesters or not – are men; and the overwhelming majority of all molestations are committed by men, whether to boys or girls. In fact the overwhelming majority of all violent crimes are committed by men – regardless of sexual orientation.
Note that you don’t see homosexual women committing these crimes at anywhere near the same rate as gay men.
Using your own logic, its clear that the problem is not homosexuality; the problem is men. Sounds like you’re the one with a case of the willful blindness.
You are incredibly misinformed. Watch Deliver Us From Evil. It’s a documentary that discusses the molestation of children within the Catholic church. Pedophiles are attracted to CHILDREN. It often makes absolutely NO difference whether the child is male or female. For example, the main subject of that documentary was asked whether he was attracted to men. He said no. He asked whether he was attracted to women. He said no. When whether he was attracted to children, however, he said yes. Pedophelia has NOTHING to do with homosexuality or heterosexuality, as most pedophiles are not attracted to men or women.
Many men molest boys because boys are more available to them than girls are. Think about scouting, church, mentoring, sporting…most of these childhood activities are segregated and the leaders are usually the same sex as the children. Therefore, any males who are in the company of children are most often in the company of boys. Thus, males who are pedophiles will often molest boys because of their availability.
MarkF says: “You don’t see the darkness because they won’t let you see it. It’s there, believe me.”
That sounds like one of the worst first lines…..up there with “It was a dark and stormy night…”
Does the darkness creep up on you like a foggy night, too?
I prefer a froggy night, myself.
::hophop::
MarkF writes: “Homosexuality is a religion, a pagan god, and that is a tough obstacle to overcome.” That is nonsense. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. (More accurately, it is two orientations, male-to-male or gay, and female-to-female or lesbian.) Some people are wired that way. It’s not a choice, any more than being straight was a choice for me. (It was the way that I and most but not all men and big boys are wired.) The hatred of homosexuality is a religious heresy, a false use of religion. The hatred of homosexuality is a tough obstacle for homosexuals to overcome.
The darkness is there, but it isn’t homosexuality or heterosexuality. The darkness is the capability of humans to do wrong. In particular, there can be darkness in any sexual orientation. Ask anyone who works with victims of violence against women by straight men. There is also darkness in religious views that defend hatred, when religion is supposed to dispel the darkness.
If you want to propound anti-homosexual views, find some forum whose posters share your views. The purpose of this forum is to discuss a trial that may have involved dark homosexuality, not to discuss whether homosexuality is inherently dark.
This is nuts. Zaborsky is a class act. I knew him. He had no “darkness” in him. He was loved by everyone.
Does is surprise you then that Victor was in a relationship with Joe Price, who is by basically all accounts strange as hell (putting it mildly). Check out Price’s alt.com profile on here.
On a slightly different note, I’d argue that virtually no one knows anyone enough to say that they incapable of some crime. At best you can say that it’s hard to believe that someone you know would commit a crime.
How well did you know the accused? Socially? How many times did you see him under stress, or while acting sexually?
Let me lay out a story. I know a guy who on the surface of things is the nicest person imaginable. He is beyond popular, particularly with women, and particularly with older women. They see him as an adorable, kind person who they would make a perfect son, and a perfect husband. He was even profiled as one of DC’s most eligible bachelors in the Washington Post a few years back. I’ve seen him spend time and money to help people through death, illness and other crises. I saw over three thousand people turn out for the funeral of his father, largely out of their love and concern for him, not particularly for his father who was very shy and quiet. Right after that he arranged a very public funeral and memorial service for a voluntary police official who was killed on duty. He did the planning and arrangement that the widow was too stricken to do.
This same guy is swamped with requests for his time. He can be treated for a dinner every night of the week out on the town. He frequently has several social requests for his time on every night of the week. I once saw him send out of four hundred Christmas cards, all with a handwritten note. A truly saintly woman once told me that this guy was a “real Christian” for his many acts of kindness.
Yet this same man has conned and lied his way through many relationships with both men and women. Sexually he’s into being beaten up, urinated on, raped and more. He gets off on breaking into a house and breaking all of the windows and anything glass in the place. I know for a fact that he’s done this. He cums over vandalism. He lies to all of the many people he’s involved with, and when his lies are revealed will tell more lies. He gets involved with people for the pleasure of hurting them, and he does it well. His behavior goes well beyond that of a cheating boyfriend, or a man being a horn dog. He’s a sociopath, a charming person who is out to control and hurt people. He lies about his first name, last name, where he went to high school, college, where he grew up, where he lives now, what he does for work. I know several people who have known him for over a year but who still don’t know his real first name, where he works, where he’s from or anything. He treats them terribly yet they come back for more abuse.
Yet none of his thousands of friends see any of this. See they a charming guy in a sweater who is soft spoken and is wildly popular.
My point? You don’t know people very well unless you know them in all the facets of their life, personal, professional, familiar and sexual.
This is not directed at Victor Z. per se. What I’m saying is that I don’t buy this the line about how a friend can say for sure what sorts of things a man is capable of doing, especially sexually.
My guess is that Price and Ward are both sociopaths and that Victor was drawn into this mess by the two of them. Sociopaths will get people to do all sorts of crazy things just to get the approval of the sociopath. Unless you’ve been taken in my a sociopath yourself, you would find it hard to believe what crazy things a person will do, and how hard it is to get away from them.
All I can say is that I hope these children weren’t there when this murder happened.
What hasnt been said about this appalling case:
The three suspects cleaning the walls with bleach after the murder to erase clues
Botched investigation.
These three S&M pervs in what the Washington Post euphemisticsally calls “a three way committed relationship”. Yes, just pervs.
High priced attorneys getting these guys off at 1K an hour.
An assistant U.S. Attorney more worried about proof beyond a reasonable doubt then proving his case.
ALLEGATIONS OF DRUG USE.
Joe Price’s own brother robbing his house to seed his instaiable drug habit.
And a murdered man denied justice.
SILENCE EQUALS DEATH. Remember that slogan about aids? It applies here. The silence on this case by the gay community in this case is repulsive.
As a gay man and working in the legal profession, I am ashamed and repulsed by these three men and their enablers.
“The silence on this case by the gay community in this case is repulsive.”
There has been NO silence from the gay community in this case. I’ve seen gay people posting messages about this case for nearly four years. This forum is run by gay people. I’ve seen hundreds of messages about this case on other gay forums. The Washington Blade (gay publication) has been running articles on this case since Robert Wone was killed. If you are observing “silence” on this case by the gay community, then you need your hearing checked.
What have you done to increase awareness of this case?
The merits or drawbacks of being gay is not the issue here. Take that shit to the “Scalia forum” or whereever. This is about the crime, any other discussions are non-germane and trivialize this appalling murder.
AC71 thanks for your remembrances, I am sure that you know best what boys like with their Wheaties. Cocaine is really passe probably.
In any case, I have said for as long as I have been on this blog that drug and alcohol abuse it at the root of this crime. A person might fantasize about attacking someone sexually or homicidally, even be a bit off mentally and just get off on these thoughts, but in some percentage of people sustained drug and alcohol abuse can metastasize these thoughts and turn them into unimaginable actions.
It’s sad that this is so common today. SO many of us know or know of situations just like this.
I am fairly new to following this case but I do have a question. Are the Defendants out on bail or was bail revoked?
The defendants are not incarcerated.
Thanks
Some one should go to jail for killing Robert Wong. If none of the parties involved will confess all three should be given life in jail. I do not care if you are gay or straight if you murder some one you should pay with incarcaration.
People who murder people should be incarcarated. Gay or straight white or black ,rich or poor. This case should have be tried six months after it happened.
Joe Price’s name no longer appears, as of tonight at least, on Arent Fox’s website in any capacity…..
Anyone read Agatha Christie’s “Murder on the Orient Express”. Makes for interesting reading in the context of this case and the result.
I’d say to these three perps, whatever some ultra liberal DC judge decides, it would be wise to watch their backs. I’ll bet any time they see those Law and Order episodes where someone kills an acquitted perp exoneratied though legal trickery of an appalling crime, a shiver goes down their collective backs. Not being convicted can be just as agonizing mentally as going to jail.
drug addiction is really a very bad problem of the society, it destroys the life of a person”‘,
I know the JP tapes haven’t been posted, but there’s one point in one of those short exerpts that the Post posted that I heard and tried to find again but it keeps coming back to me as an odd thing to say. When the detectives are questioning his responses, doesn’t he say, “You guys are killing me!” Just a really odd choice of words.
Did I mishear that? I don’t think so, but typing it felt pretty creepy.
susan,
“When the detectives are questioning his responses, doesn’t he say, “You guys are killing me!””
He said that while he was being really hammered by rapid accusations, from cops who refused to accept his answers.
As I recall, the expression “You guys are killing me.” was more common in use some years ago than it is today’ I believe that it simply meant something like, “You guys aren’t giving me a chance.”
Does anyone, other than I, recall hearing that expression?
The Urban Dictionary states the expression “You’re killing me” generally is used to refer to someone who is slacking off or not doing their share of the work.
It then has some references to someone at Best Buy and to the phrase “You’re killing me Smalls.”
I’m afraid younger posters are going to have to pick up the slack on that.
There is reaching, there is pursuing convoluted logic, there is diverting a conversation and there is (here’s an example!) the combo-comment that does all three.
Yes, Joe said “You are killing me,” to the police and yes is is an appalling, tasteless, mind-bogglingly self absorbed and oblivious locution (quite possibly a true Freudian slip). So, no, Susan did not mishear, and, yes, it is beyond odd and creepy that he said that.
AnnaZed,
When goggling “You guys are killing me.” The phrase comes up MANY times, and at least twice in television dialogue. The meanings differ widely, but I never found any that literally meant killing.
Try goggling “Freudian.”
AnnaZed
Poor old Sigmund, if he weren’t already dead, this case kill him.
I meant this case would kill him.
You’re killing me.
Started to reply but lost my post.
AnnaZed you are funny! Thanks for your two posts.
Yes, I will just comment one more time on the remote possibility it actually requires explaining.
It was very interesting that, in the middle of the night, in the police station, in the midst of a police interview about a guest being killed/murdered in your home, you choose to respond to a line of strenuous questioning with “You guys are killing me.”
I thought it was an interesting choice of words and it seems some others did/might as well.
Possibly even insensitive. Maybe telling.
Really, I just have to add, that I know that phrase is in our lexicon. So is “I’ll take a stab at it.” So are a lot of phrases. When and where and how you choose to employ them can be deemed extremely odd or inappropriate depending on the circumstances. The one above and the one used in the intervview–maybe not appropriate in light of the circumstances. That is just an observation.
Yes, this particular word choice, coupled with his stabbing motions to Kathy, suggest Culuket to be at least a boor, if not a monster.
This was the same joker, by the way, who mused about the cops not “buying” his “theory”.Go figure!
AnnaZed,
Of course Freud would have a field day with ANY of this.