FAQ / Wone:101

This FAQ should help new readers better understand the crime, principals, cases, and our approach.

OVERVIEW:  On May 10 17, 2010, three Dupont Circle residents will go on trial in connection with the stabbing murder of their longtime friend, Robert Wone.

At midnight on August 2, 2006, Robert was found stabbed to death in their home at 1509 Swann Street, NW.  Robert, a DC attorney who lived in Oakton, Virginia, had arranged weeks earlier to spend the night at the home of his college friend Joe Price.

At the time, Price lived with his registered domestic partner Victor Zaborsky and their ‘roommate’ Dylan Ward.  The three housemates, all gay, were at home when the murder occurred and from that night forward have claimed an unknown ‘intruder’ broke into their home and killed their straight friend. 

An apparent flawed investigation (that included DC Police, the FBI and US Secret Service), and at times, a lethargic prosecution allowed this case to go for years without substantive progress made towards finding Robert’s killer. 

In October, 2008, the first charges were leveled.  The prosecution alleged that Robert was injected by a paralytic drug, sexually assaulted, restrained, stabbed, washed, redressed and placed into bed before the housemates dialed 911.

On May 10, the housemates will go on trial at DC Superior Court, but they are not being tried for murder. Instead, they are charged with crime scene tampering, conspiracy and obstruction of justice (lying to and misdirecting investigators).  Prosecutors believe the defendants know who committed the murder and they’re covering up for the killer.

ESSENTIAL READING: Start with the Robert Wone Wiki page for an overview of the principals and charges.  Other key documents include:

The ‘original’ affidavit:  This was the 14 page arrest warrant for Dylan Ward that was released in October, 2008.  Written from the prosecution’s perspective, it contains many accusations that are graphic and sexual in nature.

The Superseding Indictment: This prosecution document outlines the alleged overt acts which constitute the criminal charges.

Ward Motion for Pretrial Release:  Written by Ward’s defense team, this document describes what they found to be heavy-handed tactics by the police and government in their investigation and prosecution of Ward and his housemates.

Transcripts of defendants’ interview with DC Police detectives on the night of the murder: Price, Ward, Zaborsky.  Videotapes of the interviews are here:

Price:  Part 1;  Part 2;  Part 3    Ward:  Part 1;  Part 2;  Part 3   Zaborsky:  Part 1Part 2 Part 3

Two key pieces of reporting: The Washington Post’s twopart June 2006 series by Paul Duggan and Harry Jaffe’s Washingtonian Magazine feature from April 2010.

1: Who are you guys, and why are you doing this?

For nearly two decades the four of us have been friends, partners and exes; together we are each other’s family of choice.  Over an early December dinner we realized we shared a serious and driven interest in this case and strong desire to see the truth emerge about the murder of an incredible young man.  We also shared the frustration that his murder has languished for years with a glacially slow legal process and little substantive investigative media coverage.

 

As four guys who make their livings in and around the media we also were drawn to this case by its ingredients typical of a full blown Washington scandal; power, sex, alleged drug use,and mystery.  So why such little real buzz on the streets?  There seemed to be a tremendous void. 

We launched whomurderedrobertwone.com to re-energize the conversation, spark more debate, provide a clearinghouse and to grow the number of people who can lend smart analysis and want to see justice done.

We aggregate the media coverage as well as offer original commentary, research and analysis of the case. Our editorial framework demands a 360 look at all aspects and principals involved.  We ask for guest commentary and encourage a free flowing conversation and the sharing of responsible ideas and opinions. 

Many of the topics are of an adult and graphic nature.  These issues cannot be discussed solely in a clinical manner and often the language needed to address the aspects of this case and crime requires us to give wide berth to accommodate the views from different and diverse audiences.

2: Why no aliases?

Because we want to operate as transparently as possible we freely use our names: Craig Brownstein, David Greer, Michael Kremin and Doug Johnson.  We each bring different perspectives and experience to this effort.  We are neither pro-prosecution or pro-defense.  We want to hold every bit of evidence under the light, stress test every reasonable theory and learn the fullest picture possible of Mr. Wone’s murder.

3: Did you know Robert?  Do you know the defendants?

No, and no. We have no direct history with the Wone family or any of the three defendants – Joe Price, Victor Zaborsky and Dylan Ward – although we are learning that each of us are one or two degrees away from the principals.  Because we did not enter with any preconceptions about any of them, we hope we can bring as objective observation and comment as is possible.

3: How as Robert murdered? When? Where?

Robert Wone was found at 1509 Swann Street NW without any signs of life by EMTs at 11:54pm, August 2nd, 2006.  He was pronounced dead shortly after, at 12:24 am the morning of August 3rd, at George Washington University Hospital.  The death was ruled a homicide by medical examiner Lois Goslinoski, who lists the cause of death as three stab wounds in Mr. Wone’s chest and torso.  Those simple facts are perhaps the only thing clear about this murder.

A good starting point is the Affidavit in Support of an Arrest Warrant for Dylan Ward. This document includes what the EMTs and police found on the evening of the murder, what was heard from the interrogation of the three roommates and Mr. Wone’s autopsy results.

4: So? What’s the big mystery?

Nearly everything. The knife found on the scene does not match the wounds, but a missing knife from housemate Dylan Ward’s cutlery set could prove a match. As much as 49 minutes may have passed from the time a neighbor heard Victor Zaborsky’s scream at finding the body to the time 911 was called.  Mr. Wone’s body showed no signs of restraint or defense wounds (extremely unlikely for three stabbings), signs of sexual assault (but no foreign DNA), and a number of unexplained puncture wounds on his neck, foot, hand and chest (but no signs of the standard slate of “date rape” drugs.) 

Mr. Wone’s deathbed and room showed very little signs of any blood – on the sheets, mattress, his clothes, his body, the walls or flooring, anywhere.  There was also no sign of blood on the t-shirt Mr. Wone was wearing, and although the slits matched the location of the wounds, no fibers from the t-shirt were found in the wounds.

And we’re just starting. The deeper one digs into this case, the more a puzzle it becomes.

5: Who’s been charged, who’s been convicted, and who’s gone to prison?

Quoting the October 27th indictment, three of the four Swann Street housemates – Joe, Victor and Dylan – have been charged with 17 counts to “…unlawfully combine, conspire, confederate, and agree to obstruct justice in connection with the homicide of Robert Wone by altering and orchestrating the crime scene, disposing of, altering, and planting evidence, and lying to law enforcement authorities and others about the true circumstances surrounding the homicide…”  The indictment also charged the three with obstructing justice in the investigation.

The criminal trial date has been set for May 10, 2010.   If convicted the sentences may range up to thirty-eight years.

There is also a $20 million wrongful death civil case brought against the housemates by Katherine Wone, Robert’s widow.  The judge has stayed that case until after the criminal case.

6: What do the defendants say?

All three have been clear from the very beginning: they had absolutely no involvement in any way whatsoever with Mr. Wone’s murder or its aftermath.  They say they have no idea who did it, claiming an intruder. It goes without saying that we respect their rights and the sanctity of the process.  

7: What’s the nature of the defendants’ relationships and what is the role of BDSM and drugs?

Four people lived under one roof at 1509 Swann.  Joe and Victor are committed domestic partners of long standing.  Court documents state that Joe and Dylan shared an intimate, private relationship that included bondage and S&M sex play.  So in the truest sense this was not a three-way; it was two two-ways.  According to court documents a collection of sex devices was found in the house, and investigators discovered a large collection of intimate photographs of Joe and Dylan on Joe’s computer. We do not judge in any way their private living arrangements.

There’s been some amount of speculation about drug use by one or more of the three. We are clear that this is speculation only, and there has been no hard evidence produced of any drug use. Dylan Ward did admit in voluntarily that streets drugs would be found at the house.

To the best of our knowledge Joe and Victor continue to live together at a new address while Dylan lives elsewhere now. A fourth housemate, friend Sarah Morgan, lived in the basement in-law suite and was away the night of the murder. She has not been charged.

8: Why do you call it murder? Why not “Who Killed Robert Wone”?

Because whatever else may have happened to him that night, at least one person took a knife and thrust it three times into Mr. Wone’s body. There is nothing accidental about that act, and the person or persons who did it can only have done so with the intent to commit murder. Besides, the case is officially categorized as a homicide by the Metropolitan Police Department. That’s good enough for us.

9: OK, so who do you think committed the murder?

We have no idea. More accurately, we have constantly shifting ideas and views.  We can neither do the work that’s ahead for the criminal justice system or the media.  What we are interested in are theories as to what may have happened, who may be behind it, and any and all relevant information about the players and the events of that night.  We feel that many people in this town may have a small piece of this puzzle; together we hope to solve it.

11: What can I do?

Talk with your friends, colleagues, partners. Put your best thinking into solving this brutal crime. Read the documents, offer an idea for a post, share a comment on one or offer a way to improve the site.  Do your homework. Write us.

12: What are the posting and privacy policies here?

We honor confidentiality with those we speak with online and off.  As administrators of this site, like anyone who operates on WordPress, we are privy to information hidden from other users including email addresses given and IP addresses.  We value reader contributions and will jealously guard and protect any information on here.  We retain the right to reach out to readers via posts, comments and on occasion unilaterally using email addresses given if they are indeed real. 

We ask commenters who wish to remain anonymous to adopt aliases so we and others can better follow the discussion, but we ask for real email addresses so we can further explore issues at a more personal level.  The decision on that rests with the readers.

We ask to that readers use the contact email here to discuss tips, leads or anything else of significance in a more private setting.  Through that inbox we have received heartfelt testimonials on Robert’s work and life, information from those close to the principals and some very smart ideas and direction. We hold those communications in the strictest of confidence.

We also encourage readers to operate above board if they so desire.  We use our real names and ask others to consider that as well.  We recognize the value that anonymity gives to online communication but also see the considerable merit in full disclosure.  The nature of this crime, its victim and needs of his family demand thoughtful, non-inflammatory and relevant posts – from us and from you. 

Blatant flaming, off-topic rants and personal attacks are neither welcome or helpful.  We reserve the right to edit, redact or take down any comment.  We want the discussion to be free flowing and will always err on the side of inclusion.  We know that readers here hail from vastly different backgrounds and that they often use vernacular exclusive to their particular community that others may find offensive or objectionable. 

We hope the comment sections are self-policing and have chosen not to heavily moderate them, rather we allow for their immediate posting.  All comments posted here are the sole opinions of the authors, not those of the editors.

Readers allowed ONE user name only. Commenting under multiple aliases is forbidden and grounds for immediate banning.

So rather than belabor this anymore with process, let’s get to work and go find the bad guy(s).

149 comments for “FAQ / Wone:101

    • Pete Delate
      06/13/2010 at 1:30 PM

      OK. I believe I have heard the four of you are gay men – or some of you are.

      You are obviously not well informed about an endorphin rush or the fact that Robert Wone attended the Gay/Lesbian Law Parties during Law school. (Both of these are FACTS.)

      I will bet that the evening Robert Wone died was not his first gay sex – OR – his first bdsm scene. And, if there is at least one guy who will come forward and admit that he and Robert had fun under the sheets this whole thing “Robert was straight” will be a moot point (and you guys should stop saying it). I cannot believe Mrs. Wone did not know – but that is her problem

      Of course, among the possibilities of what happened could be the following: There were 5 guys in the house that night. Robert Wone and his partner for the evening and the other three. Not being a forensic scientist, but one who knows a bit about the human anatomy — if the/any of the knife wounds killed Robert, there should be a lot of blood – your heart pumps a bit even if it is struck. The report have said little blood. (Little blood is like oozing out.)

      Let me help you with puncture marks – locations for acupuncture and/or sharp play. Most of them in places that don’t show (modesty – for some people; good medical locations – for others). Sharp play is a high for both the top and the bottom – and the bottom can go on a “trip” and it is the responsibility of a good top to ensure the bottom is brought down (carefully and completely) – this is called aftercare.

      My best guess – he died during the “scene” the stab wounds are after death and to put people off (police?)the fact that he was having sex with a man.

      Pete

      • Bill 2
        06/13/2010 at 2:04 PM

        Wow! Amazing to see so much bull in one message.

        1. These men are NOT going to cover for Robert Wone if he was gay or having someone meet him in the house.

        2. Testimony shows that sounds travel easily throughout the house.

        3. Victor’s phone call includes the sounds of the EMT walking on the stairs.

        4. If Dylan Ward can hear Robert taking a shower, as he testified, and hear the door latch click, he could certainly hear if there were another person in the house.

        Your “best guess” is part of one huge fairytale. Begone before someone drops a house on you.

      • Hoya Loya
        06/13/2010 at 4:06 PM

        Pete:

        The consesnsus that Robert was not gay is based on a lack of any evidence — nobody has come forward.

        We hear quite a bit from his W&M and DC friends, but almost nothing from Penn Law. We do know that he was long involved with diversity issues — did his attendance at gay law school parties reflect solidarity between minority and LGBT law groups or was he attending as a member of the LGBT group or as a date of a member? If you have more info, please contribute.

        That said, the fifth person scenario still seems unlikely unless the defendants were heavily involved, otherwise why cover?

      • Elizabeth
        06/13/2010 at 4:51 PM

        Pete,

        There is a lot of information available on this blog regarding the amount of blood that was or wasn’t found at the scene.

        First, the COD was stabbing – that is a FACT.

        Second, either there “should be a lot of blood,” as you say, and there wasn’t, hence the cover-up; or

        Three – there have been some very informed posters accounting for why there wasn’t more blood.

        Fourth – although many of the posters on this blog believe the trouple know much more than they are saying, not all do. While we wildly speculate, all of the speculations are based on FACTS and NO ONE has presented a shred of evidence that Robert was secretly gay or bi.

        Four years later and the chance to post things anonymously and NO ONE has come forward? Hmmm…

      • Liz
        06/23/2010 at 12:15 AM

        Did you go to Law school with Robert?

      • Linda S.
        03/30/2011 at 6:47 PM

        I am amazed at the slipshod debacle called a murder investigation by the Metro DC police department. It makes the OJ investigation look like a text book case for the perfect muder investigation. It looks like the Keystone cops were in charge. Who in their right mind could look at his body, on a bed with several precise stab wounds, find no blood and believe an intruder had crept in and stabbed him anywhere in the house and leave no blood trail? Is someone being paid off here??

      • Mark
        09/23/2016 at 9:46 PM

        Very good, I think you are on the right track. Wone apparently had his own semen in his butt, really ? This fits much better than a random “Jack the Straight Man Ripper that Seeks Prey in Gay Blades apartments”.

    • Goateeki
      11/16/2012 at 5:39 PM

      Forgive my rushed and imperfect reply (especially changes in tense), but I think what Pete says is relevant. Has it been considered that the sex (or evidence of sex) and the stabbing are not connected in the way most us would assume? It seems plausible to me that Wone was involved in sex (even if only non-penetrative acts were performed on him) and it was the belief of his partner that Wone had died because of it. Maybe beforehand a conversation like this took place: “Hey maybe we can meet at Dylan’s place, he has all that great equipment, besides, I can’t risk a hotel.”

      Then his partner freaks out believing that he’s caused Wone’s death. He starts thinking about his own welfare. “Have I committed manslaughter?” he thinks. He decides to attempt to deflect blame from himself and to make Wone’s death appear to be the result of a stabbing (let’s say by an intruder). Maybe Price, Zaborsky and Ward really *are* elsewhere in the house. As Wone’s partner stabs Wone, he perhaps realizes that it is the *stabbing* that’s killing Wone. There’s significantly more blood than he’d expected, he freaks out: “I’ve committed murder” — and bolts. Does he stay long enough to take the bloody bed linen with him?

      Price and Zaborsky realize what is at stake. They clean like crazy for a half hour because (1) the amount of blood in their layman’s view is apt to suggest a commotion of which Price, Zaborsky and Ward could not possibly disclaim awareness, and (2) they might have wanted to protect Wone’s rep. Also, it’s a hell of a lot more palatable (and less career killing) when someone is randomly murdered in your house by an intruder (you might even garner sympathy) and much less palatable when he dies in a gay bondage session gone wrong.

      This seems possible to me. The three men (four?) have not flipped on one another since an event that *must* have involved tampering with evidence. This means they know how to mug up. Why would they not also mug up to protect the sensitivities of the Wone family and Wone’s wife? “Yes, it’s true, your married son apparently died during a gay bondage session, and also he was mistakenly stabbed by his partner because he thought he’d be arrested for manslaughter.”

      For Price and Zaborsky particularly to have responded this way would have, for them, killed two birds with one stone. They gamble, but if the win, they decrease their chances of being convicted of a crime and more likely to preserve their careers, and they also protect Wone’s rep and the perceptions of his family. If Wone had a partner who bolted after stabbing Wone, he left Price and Zaborsky with a big problem. They tried to solve it.

      And I’ll say this on Wone’s orientation. It’s my bet that it’s damn hard to come out of the closet if you’re in a diligent, organized patriarchal Chinese family, 4th generation or not. I’ll also say that I am about as liberal as people can get on social issues and do count gays among my friends and family, and if I were looking for a place to stay and my two choices were a hotel and staying with my gay friend who is living with another guy — make that two guys — I’m spending the $140 and going with the hotel. It’s hard for me to understand why a straight guy would go with that option if he had a choice.

      I’m happy to listen to those who want to punch holes in this. People make the Rashomon comparison way too much, but it’s appropriate here.

      • Clio
        11/19/2012 at 10:41 PM

        Oh my! First, the suicide trope is trotted out, and now the Fourth Man-Sex in the City Gone Bad theme is dusted off. Wow, one does not know where to start, other than to point out for the umpteenth time that married guys on the DL do not trick at openly gay friends’ homes — that’s just not gonna happen in this universe!

        • AnnaZed
          11/20/2012 at 4:12 PM

          Ha! Gotta love our Clio; quick off the mark, to the point and pretty much indisputably right on point. Much Love, A

  1. Kevin
    04/08/2009 at 1:11 AM

    Enough with the macabre website! You’ve even infilatrated Camille Paglia’s column. What are you trying to accomplish? Let the legal system work and respect the privacy of all involved.

    • 04/08/2009 at 2:29 AM

      Kevin did it!

    • corgivet
      05/05/2010 at 5:31 PM

      Robert Wone has been gone for 3 years…legal schmegal…His survivors need closure..and guilty parties need to be jailed…
      Sorry if you find this macabre..but then my guess is you know nothing about the young man whose life was ended 3 years ago…

    • Linda S.
      03/30/2011 at 6:00 PM

      Why are you reading it? Stay away if it bothers you.

    • Cilo
      05/15/2017 at 2:38 PM

      Try to feel the pain of others! Butthole

  2. Holly
    04/08/2009 at 3:21 AM

    Kevin, if you read this site you should be able to understand what they are trying to accomplish. They want public attention and support to pressure the lame legal system to do something more than the little they have done to date.

    I think Craig, Michael, David and Doug are owed a big THANK YOU. There are too many instances of people looking the other way or covering up for politically correct purposes. I hope this site helps put pressure on the appropriate authorities; maybe answers will be forthcoming for this man’s family.

    • Corcoran Cutlet
      04/08/2009 at 11:13 PM

      That’s right!

      • Maria
        05/10/2010 at 10:21 PM

        I have lived and worked in the DC area for many years, listen to the news every day. But I only heard about this case just a few days ago in a very well written article in the Washingtonian (April issue, I believe). My heart goes out to his Widow and family. When I read this article, I could feel her pain, although I pray that I will never understand it through personal experience. Ridiculous that it’s been kept out of the front pages all these years. Please continue, guys. You’re doing a good thing. We need to learn the truth if possible. Already all evidence has been tampered with or discarded. I don’t understand how that could happen. What I do understand is that there is too much crime which goes unpunished in this world. We need more competent Criminologists, Forensics Experts, etc, and people who care enough to find the truth without giving up, no matter how long it takes. You don’t need a degree to give your opinion, or for that matter to help solve a case. Go for it. Even if it’s just a theory, it may help. I personally find it hard to believe that these individuals don’t know anymore than they are revealing. Too much evidence against the contrary. And I understand the heart does not pump blood once it has died. Therefore could it be possible that the wounds came right after the drugs killed him, or he was almost dead then, and that’s why he showed no resistance to the attack, why there wasn’t much blood. Maybe technically he died from his wounds,but the drugs were enough to kill him, and someone had to make it look like a freak murder, an intruder. I don’t buy the intruder version after the rest of the evidence presented. And look at the accused…please, most anyone with that education, money and connections, would also get a slap in the wrist if they could buy enough time and allies to make it fade into the past. But, innocent until proven guilty. Where do you buy Justice these days? Sorry I ranted, crime really gets to me, no one has the right to kill, except in true self defense.

        • Randy
          05/19/2010 at 12:22 AM

          The reason you don’t hear much about this case is because this time the villains are not those evil, straight, hateful, intolerant, “homophobic”, white guys who follow Pat Robertson. They are members of a sacred PC cow that the left-leaning mainstream media does not want to cast in a bad light.

          This is only a police matter and the alleged perpetrator’s lifestyle had nothing to do with Robert Wone’s death. Now move along. Nothing to see here…

          • Cilo
            05/15/2017 at 2:42 PM

            Move on my ass.

        • Linda S.
          03/30/2011 at 6:21 PM

          I think that he died in one of the bedrooms then was taken into the shower where the puncture wounds were made to make it look like an intruder had killed him. He was left in the shower to bleed out. After he stopped bleeding he was showered, dressed and placed on the bed and the bathroom was cleaned. Whoever had blood on themselves showered as well. As for the grill it was probably used to burn evidence such as bloody towels and perhaps clothes than had blood on them.

          • mg
            08/15/2016 at 9:48 AM

            But the t-shirt he was wearing had the knife holes through them matched up with the wounds. The shirt was not wet and had very little blood on it. Your theory makes no sense. The shirt would have considerable amounts of trace blood evidence on it, even if washed and would be wet.

  3. 04/08/2009 at 8:03 AM

    Whoa. Talk about miscarriage of justice. There is easily enough in it to justify the charge for a case for murder. 2nd degree, I guess. The roommates are covering for Ward (if they didn’t participate in the murder) against all human decency, thus they are. I think ketamine was employed and should have been tested for.

    What the hell does it take to get somebody prosecuted for murder these days? A film of the perp in the act? Is strong circumstantial evidence no longer considered?

    Think of the Drew Peterson case. Will he ever be brought to justice?

    • Lance
      04/11/2009 at 7:14 PM

      You know, once again, I wish people would work through the inverse implications of their logic. That is: Vincent is claiming “[given all the evidence we’ve seen,] there’s easily enough to justify the charge for a case of murder”. Doesn’t that premise, combined with the premise “there hasn’t been a charge for a case of murder”, perhaps suggest the conclusion “there’s more evidence than the evidence we’ve seen”?

      That is: if we know everything the prosecution knows, we’d certainly bring murder charges; the prosecution hasn’t brought murder charges; therefore, the prosecution knows something we don’t that might suggest that murder charges aren’t warranted?

      • Kurt
        05/14/2010 at 7:41 AM

        There isn’t enough evidence to prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t murder. Think about all the incongruities: the missing knife, T-shift fibers and blood. Almost every piece of evidence is complicated by something that the Defense would point to as reason for doubt. Why would the prosecution be hiding something when all the evidence they do have is nebulous anyway?

        No one can prove which of the men did the murder at this point, so bringing murder charges would make it easier for the defense to get them all off simply by saying that the evidence doesn’t prove the murder beyond a reasonable doubt. The prosecution can, however, prove that the men covered up a murder and consequently get them locked up for a considerable amount of time.

        • Bob
          05/25/2010 at 6:29 PM

          There is, in my opinion, more than enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Robert Wone was murdered. The problem is that a prosecutor is not expected only to prove that there was a murder, but to prove who the murderer was in order to convict. That is why the prosecution is charging obstruction of justice instead.

          • Irene
            04/04/2011 at 12:18 PM

            I agree there’s not enough evidence to provide beyond reasonable doubt that Robert Wone was murdered. Nonetheless, I believe he was, in some convoluted way. The lack of blood from knife stabbings troubles me greatly. Not long ago, a case was reported in the paper of a man using an ice pick to kill his rival, precisely because stabs with an ice pick do not produce a great deal of blood. Has the “ice pick” been considered?

            Suppose something like an ice pick was used, or Mr. Wone was killed by some other means, and then stabbed only subsequently to make it appear like he was killed by stabbing with a knife. I have no expertise in any of this, just some intuition, or recollection of having read something like this in a murder mystery. . . once a person is dead, stab wounds do not produce the large amounts of blood that would be produced were the person stabbed when alive. I am not sure why I care, but this “unsolved” case keeps coming back to my mind, I keep musing and hoping that “the truth will out” eventually.

    • Anon
      03/07/2014 at 8:46 PM

      People tried. I know the judge here. She firmly believed that they were all guilty of murder. So did most of the jury. The fact is, though, that our justice system requires evidence – and there just wasn’t any, because they covered it up so well. This isn’t a failure of justice. It’s a triumph of bad people over the system.

      • Doug
        03/12/2014 at 3:03 PM

        I can’t speak to what Judge Leibovitz believed, only what she said in her ruling from the bench. In it, she was clear that she believed the trouple knew more than it was saying…and that, itself, says a lot. Also, there was no jury in this case, which may have in the end been the single biggest factor in their acquittal.

        • susan
          03/12/2014 at 9:55 PM

          I think it’s a travesty of justice that those accused have a CHOICE between a bench trial and jury trial. The judge is going to always be concerned about his/her reputation and that probably swayed ole Lynn L. Juror number one, three or twelve doesn’t have the same considerations on the line.

          • Clio
            05/25/2014 at 10:54 PM

            “Cold comfort” for us all indeed — and this judicial vanity let the real killers go scot-free. I’m sure that the former (or current) trouple is spending day and night trying to find them, but we know who they are.

    • mg
      08/15/2016 at 9:55 AM

      The prosecution has to have direct evidence that connects a person with the actual murder. You could have four people in a room and one is murdered. It is obvious one of the three did it, but the prosecution must give direct evidence that connects one to the murder. This scene was so doctored and manipulated and the suspects so intelligent, forget about it. Each guy lawyered up instantly, that is what smart guilty people do. The best hope the police had of cracking this case was to get one of the three to crack and give up information. Once they could not do that, any chance to solve the case was done.

  4. Kevin
    04/08/2009 at 10:16 PM

    Of course, this is merely one person’s perspective, but I fear this wesbite makes a circus of the legal process and a mockery of the lives and privacy of any person on even the periphery of the matter.

    I don’t know any of the principals, nor do I want to the murderer escape justice (if indeed this was a murder) — quite the contrary! And this is indeed a weird, twisted case with plenty of lascivious elements.

    But the website contributes nothing substantive beyond naked voyeurism. It’s turned a human tragedy into nothing more than a real-time game of Clue. It would transform a sad and tragic event into a freak-show characterization of the DC gay community.

    I’ve actually found the media’s coverage highly responsible and very balanced (for a change). Notwithstanding the salacious details, none of the Post, the Blade or other media outlets have jumped to turn this into the kind of CourtTV sideshow that, as nearly as I can tell, seems to be a primary motive of this website. Can it really be the case that anyone prefers a media frenzy (a la Chandra Levy) to a meticulous police investigation?

    (Camille, I still love you and your column!)

    • Ex Swann Dude
      04/08/2009 at 10:35 PM

      Nice, but who does your hair?

      • CDinDC
        04/08/2009 at 10:38 PM

        (snickering)

        • 04/08/2009 at 10:54 PM

          Get a motel room guys. You’re wasting well-meaning and busy people’s time at this site with all of these kind of posts.

          • CDinDC
            04/08/2009 at 11:11 PM

            I assume that was directed at Kevin the Asperser, and not at ExSwann and me.

          • Maria
            05/10/2010 at 10:31 PM

            Brilliant! I read all your books, Mr. Grisham!

    • Corcoran Cutlet
      04/08/2009 at 11:16 PM

      “meticulous police investigation” –??

      what planet are you from?

    • Eagle
      05/10/2010 at 11:05 PM

      Kevin:
      Without this blog hardly anyone would know the story of Robert Wone.
      Friends who have read the small infrequent Post stories said that after reading the Washingtonian they had a totally different information base about the murder.
      If someone does not create a major focus on this crime, it will become just one of those unsolved murders that no one really knew about- just another DC problem, mysterious, buried in the bureaucratic records.
      Please review the goals of this blog: to work together seeking answers to questions and to seek justice for Robert.
      Got a problem with that?
      This blog also highlights the strengths (hopefully) and weaknesses of the DC police, the FBI and the attorney’s office.
      The more information on local crime, the better.
      In addition, it informs the naive about some of the real dangers in today’s world.
      Still have a problem?
      Many many thanks to the managers of this blog and to all the participants.
      It is called caring about our society.

      • Kevin
        05/11/2010 at 1:21 AM

        Yes, in fact, I still do have a problem with the website. I think it’s salacious and voyeuristic.

        I disagree that anyone would know the story of Robert Wone but for the website. I read the Washington Post, I knew of it long before McGruff the Crime Dogs decided to start a blog. If, in fact, any of the three are acquitted of the crime, I would argue that they might have a decent lawsuit for defamation against the editors of this site.

        Contrary to the notion of mysterious bureaucrats blocking justice, the criminal and civil cases are proceeding in due order.

        I don’t dispute that the hearts of the blog’s writers aren’t in the right place — I honestly think they are interested in justice. But this blog, let’s not fool ourselves, is as much entertainment as it is informative. I guess my notion of society is just different: it’s a place where individual privacy and the notion of innocent until proven guilty are higher values than the 21st century version of yellow journalism.

        • Bea
          05/11/2010 at 1:49 AM

          Kevin,

          I don’t know you and you don’t know me. I’ve read interviews with the editors as to why and how they started this blog, and I have no doubt that their motives were good. Being in California, I don’t read DC periodicals, just happened to catch something on a legal forum and went looking for additional information. I found what I needed here.

          I don’t get your animosity. Unless you’re involved with the defense or defendants, and feel compelled to read it, I’d suggest that you simply avoid it. I think the test of whether it’s in poor taste might be answered by Kathy Wone having reached out to the editors to provide photos and information for a memorial post last year.

          Defamation? For reading affidavits, transcripts, reports and posting public documents? For providing hundreds of hours putting this together without a cent and reaching into their pockets to make it available to the public? For hosting a site where those of us are interested in the case can discuss open questions (and there are MANY open questions)?

          I suppose the fact that Dylan continued to offer massages or that Michael advertises himself for hook-ups is not directly relevant to the facts, but even these two posts – likely the most classically voyeuristic – ARE relevant to understanding the individuals and possible motives.

          I’d like to hear your ‘take’ on what happened that night – we don’t often get folks who believe there was an intruder or who otherwise believe the defendants to be guilt-free (even as to conspiracy/obstruction/tampering). Especially if you’ve read the affidavits and other materials, I’m very interested in how the inconsistencies can be accounted for in light of the facts available.

          I’m not being facetious – if this blog troubles you yet you’re finding it hard NOT to read it, I am interested in knowing what YOU think happened that night.

          Best-

          • des
            05/11/2010 at 11:35 AM

            bea,
            as usually happens with disgruntled wmrw bloggers once confronted with the question “what do YOU think happened that night?” kevin will now disappear into the ether.

            • Clio
              05/11/2010 at 9:20 PM

              Discussing the news is not illegal, at least not yet in America. All of the people being talked about here have been/are in the news; most, if not all, of the facts presented here are public record — including the electronic debris left by Team Price.

              Now, if the Editors explored the diverse love lives of the Four Horsemen with names and dates, then they would be going too far.

              BTW, does the incoming Prime Minister of Great Britain resemble Culuket? I think so. Could David Cameron be the long-lost brother of Joe and Michael? Just kidding!

        • plumskiter
          05/11/2010 at 8:53 AM

          to kevin. i love this forum because it is a place to discuss a truly fascinating case with others who are interested and knowledgeable about it. i personally am trying to be as objective as possible about what happened on swann street. i am a retired criminal trial lawyer who now lives a thousand miles from d.c. and i value the opportunity to observe and discuss the case from this distance. we are only discussing things that are in the public record. i see this simply as the 21st century’s version of the right to exercise freedom of speech.

        • CDinDC
          05/11/2010 at 9:12 AM

          It wouldn’t be defamation….it would be libel.

          Just sayin’.

          • CDinDC
            05/11/2010 at 9:47 AM

            Sorry corretion…yes, defamation….no slander….yes, libel.

            But how can it be any of these if what the editors are doing is reporting news.

            • Kevin
              05/12/2010 at 12:12 AM

              I would be remiss not to point out that news outlets have legal departments for this very reason. News outlets are sued for damages in respect of defamation — and lose those cases all the time. So there’s no magical reporters’ defense against a defamation charge. There are other claims, depending on state law, that could be made in respect of privacy violations.

              Furthermore, and perhaps more troubling, is that the blog may well taint any potential local jury pool by prejudicing anyone who’s ever seen it.

              As someone who doesn’t live 1000 miles away, but who lives in this very neighborhood, I’m astounded at the way this blog has intruded into the private lives of private individuals who, yes, should have at least some protection as non-public figures. Even if the defendants were deemed to be public figures, the Supreme Court has ruled that if there’s malice involved, there may still be damages for defamation.

              I know if somehow died in my home, I surely wouldn’t want strangers sniffing through my every move four years after the fact. It’s 21st century Salem. The reality is that the blog doesn’t merely look at the facts of the case, it appears to be doing original — and intrusive — reporting into the current lives of anyone even remotely related to the case. Add harassment to our list of problems.

              I came to the blog again because another blog linked to it, which is how I originally found out about it, and I checked to see if it was as voyeuristic as I remembered. It is.

              I realize my viewpoint is fairly unpopular. That’s OK. But it’s still a point worth considering.

              • Craig
                05/12/2010 at 12:20 AM

                Unpopular or not, you’re welcome here Kevin. Voir dire will screen out anyone who’s read too much about the case. The jury pool will be just fine.

              • AnnaZed
                05/12/2010 at 12:31 AM

                “I know if somehow [sic] died in my home, I surely wouldn’t want strangers sniffing through my every move four years after the fact.”

                Proceeding on the assumption that you meant “someone died” I’ll point out that Robert Wone didn’t just “somehow die,” he was murdered. If someone somehow got murdered in your home and you proceeded to stonewall the police and lie about the circumstances that lead up to this someone somehow getting murdered in your home you can bet that someone somewhere would be “sniffing through your every move” until the truth of what happened to that person was revealed. You can count on that, whether you would “want” it or not.

              • Bea
                05/12/2010 at 1:46 AM

                But Kevin, you didn’t answer the question I posed to your other post. What alternate theory do you have as to what happened the night Robert was murdered? If you simply don’t care, then you’re right that this site isn’t a place for you. But I would like to know your opinion on THIS CASE whether it’s “unpopular” or not – we’re not here discussing whether blogging has gone too far; we’re here discussing a case which is, of course, the subject of a very public trial.

              • MotherOfInvention
                05/12/2010 at 2:08 AM

                What blog posts on this blog would constitute malicious defamation? I’m curious. Surely not posts that involved reproducing a publicly displayed website profiles which were created by the individuals in question. How can using their own public representations of themselves be construed as defamatory?

                • AnnaZed
                  05/12/2010 at 10:01 AM

                  Ah, Mom and Bea, methinks Kevin has moved on to less intimidating environs….

                  …, but not without leaving us this syntactical gem:

                  “…Add harassment to our list of problems.”

                  Who’s problems?

                  • MotherOfInvention
                    05/12/2010 at 12:58 PM

                    Good catch!

                  • SMD
                    05/20/2010 at 10:10 PM

                    That would be “Whose problems?”

                    • AnnaZed
                      05/20/2010 at 10:12 PM

                      Yes it should.

  5. N.M.
    04/10/2009 at 1:48 PM

    “I fear this wesbite makes a circus of the legal process” — ha! Kevin must not be a DC resident.

    Kevin, I guarantee you, if someone raped and murdered you and law enforcement sat on its hands for two years and did nothing, you would want people to raise holy hell to get justice. Or would you rather everybody forgot all about you and what happened to you? Would you want your murderers to get away scot free, to repeat the crime with another victim?

    I would think not.

    • A.L.
      04/11/2009 at 1:11 PM

      Perhaps Kevin is more concerned about the “outrage” and “publicity” that would ensue (tainting some of his “friends” ?) if more local denizens knew of the sloth and incompetence of the local authorites in this case.

      It has all the elements of an interesting novel; well connected lawyer/defendents, famous defendent lawyers, coverup, politics, police incompetence, and of course SM sex.

      Yes, Kevin, lets shut up about it and pretend it never happened

  6. Kevin
    04/11/2009 at 5:07 PM

    The legal process is designed precisely in the interests of avoiding the mob of people raising holy hell — that instinct is properly channeled through the jury system. Due process and the rule of law are the building blocks of justice, not their impediments.

    The investigation is active — prosecutors obtained indictments from a grand jury a few months ago. So it’s clear that prosecutors haven’t just been sitting on their hands. Cases sometimes take time, even years, to build. While frustrating delays are lamentable, it seems to me that such delays aren’t reason enough to promote a sensational freak-show blog with daily fixes of macabre speculation about any and all personal, sexual, professional and other aspects of the life of any suspect or acquaintance (full disclosure, I don’t know anyone involved; I’m just a DC resident repulsed by the way this viral sideshow has been promoted).

    Indeed, my neighborhood has been bombarded with vigilante posters soliciting information, coming neither from police nor the Wone family, as far as I can tell. For all we know, this website’s Hardy Boys/Clue/freak-show approach could be complicating prosecutor efforts.

    • CDinDC
      04/11/2009 at 5:18 PM

      [Kevin says: sensational freak-show blog ]

      And you just can’t help yourself from stopping by, huh? It’s like a car crash. You have to look. Kevin, if you are so appalled at what you see, then move along and stop rubber-necking.

      ::putting Kevin on ignore from this point forward::

      • Lance
        04/11/2009 at 7:09 PM

        CDinDC: you’re not doing yourself any favors by ignoring anyone you disagree with. To be honest, I agree with Kevin–of course, you may already be pretending I don’t exist, though your more recent acknowledgment that I didn’t misquote you showed that perhaps you are willing to listen to reason. But I think Kevin’s right that this blog often descends into sensationalism. And I don’t think an ad hominem attack, accusing him of “rubbernecking” and implying that he’s a hypocrite for finding the site offensive and yet posting on it, does much to prove him wrong.

        • CDinDC
          04/11/2009 at 8:19 PM

          Lance, I am not here to debate the right and wrong of this website. I’m here to discuss the case of State v. Price, Ward and Zaborsky. Period. That’s it.

          You RARELY have anything to offer except antagonist comments. You rarely offer anything constructive.

          If, again, you want to offer up logical defense theories, bring it on, but otherwise, I have nothing to discuss with you if all you want to discuss is the existance of this website.

          So, unless you post ABOUT THE CASE, I will not address your badgering.

    • 04/11/2009 at 7:45 PM

      Needham?

      • Lance
        04/11/2009 at 7:54 PM

        Intruder?

        • 04/11/2009 at 7:57 PM

          i was actually talking to kevin, dylan; not you.

          • Lance
            04/11/2009 at 8:08 PM

            I know who you were talking to, intruder, and it’s not acceptable regardless.

    • Corcoran Cutlet
      04/11/2009 at 8:21 PM

      Panem et circenses, huh? What a drama queen la Kevin is. When you consider how many cases get talked up non-stop on TV by boozy commentators and talking heads in perpetual high dudgeon, then really this site seems pretty tame and harmless. It may in fact bring to the fore some unknown information. I only wish the not so talented limerick writers would give it a rest -LOL. Everyone knows that what will happen in courtroom is what really counts. Has Kevin considered that this site is also cathartic for us who have lived around this mess. Truly, describing putting up posters as “vigilante” is beyond drama queen, it is delusional.

      • CDinDC
        04/11/2009 at 8:26 PM

        Geez, CC….just a little levity. I offer up much more in the way of serious posting than jokes on any given day. Cut me some slack.

        • 04/11/2009 at 10:13 PM

          You saw that the editors deleted my feeble attempt at a limerick, following on your great one. I’ve just posted to put such deletions in perspective.

        • Corcoran Cutlet
          04/11/2009 at 11:36 PM

          Just joshin’.

    • Fascinating
      04/23/2009 at 3:19 PM

      Reminds me of A CRY IN THE DARK, that Meryl Streep movie about the Australian woman, the dingo, and the baby. In those days, most of Australia theorized about what happened to the baby. Now, we do it online. The declaimers are obvious here — we’re just discussing. I sometimes have moral and taste issues with what’s discussed — especially when it concerns Mr. Wone, who is dead.

      But, like the 1982 Ayers Rock/”Dingo Ate My Baby” trial, people have been theorizing, judging, and discussing whodunit for years.

      • Ex Swann Dude
        04/23/2009 at 4:26 PM

        Hmmmm, Joe “the intruder Dingo Ate My Baby in the office/guestroom” Price …

        It does have a certain ring to it …

        • CDinDC
          04/23/2009 at 4:28 PM

          I’ve seen Dingo’s roaming the streets of Dupont Circle at night. Their cries are particularly haunting. It frightens me.

          • Dupont Dweller
            04/23/2009 at 7:28 PM

            Some of them used to dance at Rascals at Dupont.

            • CDinDC
              04/23/2009 at 7:48 PM

              Rascals. Oh my gawd….I forgot about that place. Back when Dupont Circle was gay.

  7. New User
    06/02/2009 at 5:37 PM

    Thanks for maintaining this site. The case is chilling and the victim deserves justice.

  8. Anon
    06/02/2009 at 7:52 PM

    Great Site.
    As a former Beltway dweller, I know the DC MPD are inept. In light of the Craiglist killer, if the killers were the homeowners, have the police considered this is not the first time those responsible struck?

  9. Paul
    06/03/2009 at 12:03 AM

    I’ve read more about this sad story than I care to—especially sad because it seems unlikely that enough evidence will ever be gathered to prove anything against anyone.

    A couple things do stand out, though. First, the sensor supposedly went off went someone entered the house. Is there any reason to think that the sensor actually went off when someone exited the house? I don’t know what kind of alarm system they had, but the systems I’ve had work the same whether being opened (from outside) or closed (from inside).

    Second, did they ever test Ward for the sleeping pills he’d supposedly taken? They questioned him for 12 hours afterward (considerably more than the other two suspects), and he was coherent? He’s also the one who said that drugs were in the house. Did they all get tested for drugs?

    I could go on and on. But does it matter? At this point, the evidence seems stale and impossible to recover. As for the ketamine suspicion, that wouldn’t explain the numerous needle points—you can knock someone out with a single shot of ketamine in the upper arm (or anywhere else). It takes a few minutes to take effect, but the point remains.

    The news about Wone’s semen being in his rectum is nearly impossible for me to process. So many parts of this story and slipshod investigation make zero sense.

  10. berniemadoff
    07/07/2009 at 5:24 PM

    This situation reminds me of my lovely wife.
    The basement tenant did it, she is actually a tranny with an axe to grind and did her best to frame Dylan Ward. In my case, I have no further comment.

    • Clio
      07/08/2009 at 12:02 AM

      Bernie, as you know, Sarah certainly did not like Dylan according to the local gossips, but Mr. Ward (even as service top/sidekick) was the one to frame his own future, which seems increasingly cramped and futile — sort of similar to your own present situation, perhaps?

  11. Andy
    01/29/2010 at 4:14 AM

    I have been reading this story for the better part of an hour now and am confused by the fact that the affidavit for Mr. Ward says nothing of the kitchen. Whereas Officer Diane Durham’s report says that they found Mr. Wone at the backdoor in the kitchen… (All the affidavit talks about is the guest room). Am I missing something?

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/19715202/Officer-Diane-Durham-statement

    • Bea
      01/29/2010 at 4:18 AM

      Hi Andy,
      For whatever reason, the fact that Officer Durham’s statement wasn’t mentioned in the arresting affidavit.

      • CDinDC
        01/29/2010 at 9:47 AM

        A lot of things weren’t mentioned in the affidavit. Perhaps the arresting affidavit doesn’t need to have a full “ingredients list” to come to the conclusion that a crime has been committed?

        For instance, there is only a general “going over” of the blood (or lack thereof) evidence.

        I can’t imagine they won’t include Durham’s testimony (or information) in the trial. The trial is where ALL evidence will be introduced.

        What do you think Bea?

        • CDinDC
          01/29/2010 at 10:26 AM

          From the internet: “An affidavit in support of a search or arrest warrant must provide the judge with sufficient information to support an independent judgment that probable cause exists for the issuance of the warrant.”

          I would imagine the burden of proof falls on the prosecutor’s office to flesh out the probable cause?

    • Craig
      01/29/2010 at 9:43 AM

      Andy – The absence in the affidavit of any mention of Durham’s report remains the $64 question. Still a head scratcher to say the least.

      You’ve got to wonder who could be the real key witnesses at the trial beyond the experts. Durham tops my list, downstairs housemate Sarah Morgan too.

      Anyone think that Michael Price could be called to testify?

  12. ashley
    05/15/2010 at 1:23 PM

    Just hearing this case and reading all about it today I have a few questions…

    After years of watching “Forensic Files” on TRU TV and seeing the scientific methods used at crime scenes all over the world especially in regards to blood evidence how was no traces of blood found after supposed “clean up” of the body? Ive seen episodes showing where a persons blood had been and was cleaned with bleach and they still have chemicals showing where the blood had been. This would have been a hurried clean up at best (49 min). They would have had to have blood on their hands and touched cleaning supply bottles, sponges, brushes, rags, buckets,the toilet,clothing, other parts of Mr. Wone body? No traces of blood found on anything such as these?

    Also..was ther ever any possibility that Mr.Wone may have been secretly bi-sexual? You see it all the time..even the wife is unsuspecting. Experimentation?? I dont know any straight men that would feel comfortable staying with 3 gay men overnite…friends or not. Im looking for motive here.

    Something just bothers me about Ward. Its the Thai massage thing and Wone being Asian. Could he have had something for Asian men?
    Again looking for motive.

    • MotherOfInvention
      05/15/2010 at 1:39 PM

      The police botched the search for blood traces in the guest room by prematurely applying Ashley’s Reagent.

      No one has found any evidence whatsoever supporting the theory that Robert was bisexual, to my knowledge. although this is not the first time that this possibility has been raised.

      As for Dylan liking Asian men, quite possibly. I believe some porn was found that supported that, and he did live for quite a while in Asia.

    • Hoya Loya
      05/15/2010 at 3:18 PM

      Ashley:

      Check out the “Consenting Adults” thread for an extended analysis and discussion of the sexuality issue.

  13. Steven
    05/19/2010 at 10:37 AM

    This blog says, “(The defendants) say they have no idea who did it, claiming an intruder. We take them at their word.”

    SAY WHAT? “Take them at their word”?! The amateur sleuths behind this website claim they’re objective, trying to get at the truth — but then flat out eliminate the three defendants as suspects, in whose home the murder occurred, under suspicious and, indeed, incriminating circumstances!

    “Take them at their word” means to believe exactly what someone tells you. No one should be “taken at their word” — not the defendants, not the police, no one. Rather, any statement (by defendant or cop) should be carefully evaluated in light of the facts: the direct evidence, the circumstances, and the testimony (and demeanor) of the witnesses.

    Perhaps, the “sleuths” here were careless in their choice of language. Or perhaps their agenda is to support the three defendants. If it’s the latter, they ought to say so — and stop hiding behind a banner of objectivity.

    • Bob
      05/19/2010 at 3:24 PM

      They were careless in their choice of language. It should be clear that their agenda is not to support the three defendants, but to call attention to the case so that justice may be done, late rather than never.

      It should be obvious that the editors of this site were not eliminating the three defendants. They have in fact called attention to inconsistencies in the statements by the defendants. As they say in response to question 9, they have shifting ideas and views.

      Steven: You are being too literal. You say that no one should be taken at their word, which is a reasonable point, but then you take the editors at their word when they used language carelessly.

      • Steven
        05/19/2010 at 4:13 PM

        Thank you for your comment, and you make some fair points.

        “Taking pepole at their word” means you believe their story (even despite evidence to the contrary). I’m not saying I don’t believe the authors — I’m not questioning their honesty. What I’m questioning is their ability to be objective. I’ve also allowed for the fact that it was a careless use of language and that, in fact, they are TRYING to be objective. But merely trying to be objective (or claiming to be), and actually succeeding at it, are two different things. Even the most esteemed of our newspapers, The New York Times, unintentionally slips bias into its reporting on occasion.

        As a former journalist, I know that good journalism requires solid objectivity and, I should point out, care. Care to use language in a manner so that you are not misunderstood. While I admire this website for its examination of a controversial death, and while I think they’ve basically done a pretty good job covering the trial, this reminds us that amateur journalism (e.g., web bloggers) occasionally lack the skills — namely, in this case, careful writing — that we’re used to getting from professional journalists.

        Anyway, I’m still a follower here!

        • Bob
          05/19/2010 at 5:01 PM

          I know that taking someone at their word has the literal meaning that you say it does. It is clear to me that the editors cannot possibly have meant what the literal meaning of their post is. I don’t think that the editors or anyone has an agenda that supports the defendants.

          I think that we agree that they must have used language carelessly. As a computer scientist, I work with systems that are even more rigid in the use of language than you and I are.

  14. SDK
    05/19/2010 at 2:47 PM

    Having read about this case non-stop for two days now, I have come to the conclusion that Joe Price had a crush on Robert for years…knowing full well that he was completely straight. He told Dylan about his crush and Dylan decided to do something about it for his submissive partner. Knowing that Robert would be coming to spend the night, he and/or Dylan came up with a plan to make it possible for Joe to finaly realize his fantasy with Robert and something went horribly wrong.

    In order to cover up either Robert coming too and realizing what they were doing, or thinking they had accidentially overdosed him, Dylan stabbed him and they came up with the intruder story. Who knows what Victor knew because just look at what must have gone on right under his nose between Joe and Dylan.

    It seems to me the older we get the more our comfort levels rise, whether it be with cooking, our careers, or our sex lives, we seem to take a little more risk. I’m sure at the age of 32 (or close around there) these guys had seen a lot, done a lot (including drugs and sexual experimentation…considering the type of sex-toys and materials found in the house) and felt pretty comfortable drugging and raping Robert then assuming he would wake up the next morning with a huge headache and a foggy memory of some sadistic dream.

    Or maybe someone got jealous of the very long term friendship. Joe, Joe, Joe…everyone there was all about Joe.

    • michael
      05/29/2010 at 8:49 PM

      I agree, my thoughts exactly.

  15. David R
    05/23/2010 at 5:37 PM

    Sounds plausible to me.

    • Brian
      06/25/2010 at 8:19 PM

      Sounds ridiculous to me

      • Carolina
        06/25/2010 at 8:52 PM

        I hope to god it was less trite, but all things considered…

  16. curious
    05/26/2010 at 9:55 AM

    Just wondering if the police or the investigators have searched the basement apartment which is downstairs and where some traces of blood was found in the drain and nearby a hose. Since the basement tenant was not home at the time, could the murder have taken place in her apartment or could evidence be hidden there since there was an alibi that she was not home, the police may not have gotten a warrant to search that apartment? The defendants kept saying the back door was open, they want to make it sound like an intruder did it.

    Also, since no blood was found elsewhere in the house where the defendants lived, could the murder have taken place elsewhere and the defendants carried Wone back inside the house and staged the murder there and blames it on the intruder?

    I read somewhere that the basement tenant was seen either with 1 or more of the 3 defendants soon after the murder, could they have contacted her to collaborate on a story or alibi?

    I think these 3 guys definitely have something to do with the murder. I truly don’t think the sex could have been consensual, otherwise why would a paralytic drug be used on Wone?

    I think this was a senseless murder and if these 3 supposedly friends did it, I hope they will be found guilty, even for the ones who did not actually do the murdering but helped to hide the evidence and circumstances.

    • Carolina
      06/25/2010 at 8:53 PM

      Yes, the apartment was searched. Yes, they had a separate warrant. No, they didn’t find anything.

      Most questions are easily answered using the search function the eds so thoughtfully provided.

  17. jc
    05/26/2010 at 11:35 AM

    if this was a black case all the defendant would have been charge with first degree murder, this is another case of white people getting a way with murder. i like to say one thing about this case. if you and three friend in the house and one got murder why would you tamper with the evidence it seem like you would call the police and not touch nothing so the police can found the real murders. this just don’t add up one of the three did it but because they are white they getting charge with evidence tampering. i won’t be suprise if they get off. it a damn shame how people mind is program!

    • SDK
      05/28/2010 at 12:37 PM

      I’m pretty sure if these people had all been black, with the same jobs as the defendants and victim and it took place with the same circumstances, in the same home…the out come would be what it is now. If the defendants and victim had been black and had no jobs and it took place in a trailer park, they probably would have been arrested for 1st degree murder…Oh and if they had all been white, no jobs and a trailer park…those people would have been arrested too. White people do not get away with murder, but rich people do. Yes it is a damed shame…

  18. David Hiergesell
    06/24/2010 at 10:57 PM

    I worked with Victor Zaborsky for one year (1999) at the International Dairy Foods Association.

    This was a highly professional work environment with a strong level of purpose and committment from everyone who worked there.

    I did not work directly with Victor on a daily basis, but encountered him several times a day around the office each day.

    Victor is a perenially optimistic person with a gentle and humble demeanor. I would wager that if a poll were taken in the office as to who the nicest single person who worked there it would be virtually unanimous for Victor.

    I never knew Victor in a personal manner, but I find it beyond the realm of consideration that he is involved in the coverup of a murder.

    I actually found out about his involvement in this case about an hour ago while half asleep listing to the late news. I found this website and have read only the FAQ. This is my unvarnished opinion before learning more opinions about Victor’s involvement in this.

    I am considering writing a letter to his attorney as one more voice in support of Victor. I’m sure that he has an army of friends providing these character references, though.

  19. forensic
    06/28/2010 at 9:53 PM

    Sadly I reckon the first suggestion by Pete Delate is the most plausible. All based on pop psychology, mind, but the fact that Mrs Wone is significantly older and also Asian suggests that she was a beard for a conservative family. A colleague of mine died in ‘sharp play’, simply bled out, so that’s probably what happened here. Then they stabbed him with a long knife post-mortem to make it look like murder, which accounts for the lack of blood from the wounds, and quickly cobbled together a not-very-good story; they had very little time and, even if they appeared calm when the police turned up, must have been fairly stressed.

    The emails about ‘trying’ seem to suggest more than just a threesome. Why would you be scared of that? Why talk of ‘trying’ something fairly run-of-the-mill if you’re already living together in a threesome?

    Presumably they reckoned they’d be prosecuted one way or the other, for accidental manslaughter or some such if they admitted the facts, and this way at least they spare the family and stand a chance of acquittal or a shorter sentence. It makes for a rather dull story, but it sounds right. Real-life crime is usually messy and incompetent. Just bad luck for the state that the investigation was so badly bungled, probably because these rather homophobic-sounding officers couldn’t off the top of their heads imagine what might have happened.

    • forensic
      06/28/2010 at 10:04 PM

      Or he had a heart attack from the excitement, it occurs to me now, so there might not have been all that much blood.

      • cinnamon
        06/28/2010 at 10:17 PM

        With a name like forensic, I’d assume that you’d read the autopsy.

        • forensic
          06/29/2010 at 3:28 AM

          There goes that attractive theory.

          Well, I’ve read it now: I still can’t see how the evidence points to sexual assault; all it shows is that he had sex with a man or men. And since we don’t know what he was injected with, there’s still the likelihood that they thought he was dead when they stabbed him and something had gone wrong, perhaps with the dosage of the forever unknown drug. (Would anyone, for example, bother injecting ketamine rather than snorting it? Your pulse might go down to pretty undetectable.) I just don’t like this whole lurid idea of the reportedly ‘creepy’ brother Mike and some sort of ‘Rope’/Leopold-and-Loeb plot to murder a harmless innocent for kicks, which is what you’re left with — not till all scenarios involving stupidity and misadventure have been ruled out.

          As a plot to conceal a crime this was monumentally stupid; as a plot to conceal an accident it at least makes a weird kind of sense.

          But I agree that my original theory is worthless and you might as well delete it. I’m rather waiting for the usual magazine feature about the ‘darker’ fringe of the BDSM scene, which frankly strikes me as pretty dark at the lighter end, to shed light on all the implausible things people do for fun, including whatever there might be in having yourself incapacitated. I mean people asphyxiate themselves left, right and centre, for example. I’d only add that whether one or all of the accused are ‘gentle’ people is neither here nor there in terms of what they do for sex. M’colleague who died in the knife game kept the neatest desk you ever saw and couldn’t say boo to a goose.

          • Anonymous
            06/30/2010 at 8:24 AM

            The forensic evidence (Wone’s semen on and around his own genitalia) shows he ejaculated some time prior to his death. No other DNA was found, I suspect the sexual partner must have worn a condom.

            The prosecution never should have assumed it was sexual assault. By refusing to consider that Wone may have been gay and engaged in sexual acts with one or more of the accused they left unexplored a number of possible motives and/or hypotheses as to what happened.

            All in all I tend to agree with your lie of thought. The actions of the accused don’t make sense unless they were trying to cover up an accidental death.

    • Nelly
      06/30/2010 at 10:05 PM

      That is insulting, and by the way, Mrs. Wone was only 2-3 years older than her husband. Nothing unusual about him marrying an Asian American woman, being of Asian descent himself.

  20. Steven
    06/30/2010 at 10:53 AM

    “Accidental death”? The implication is that if Wone was injected, it could only have been with his consent. That is, he voluntarily had himself incapacitated with a drug. Hence, you deem it an “accident.”

    I’ll just point out that a physician in Los Angeles has been charged with injecting Michael Jackson with an incapacitating drug, which directly caused his death. The fact that Jackson took it voluntarily is besides the point. The perpetrators do not escape criminal liability, whether the charge is murder or manslaughter, simply because the victim consented to it. The administration of any such drug, by doctor or non-doctor, in a non-clinical setting is per se reckless and demonstrates a wanton disregard for life.

    Most relevant here, if the accused covered up such an “accident,” their actions are criminal.

    • Anonymous
      06/30/2010 at 4:24 PM

      Hello Steven,

      I am speculating about the hypothesis that this is indeed an accident stemming from BDSM “sharp play”. The injections of anesthetics/analgesics may have been consensual as aids for pain management, except someone made a dosing mistake that incapacitated Robert Wone. Whether the “sharp play” was taken too far and he died of an accidental stab, or whether he was overdosed and then stabbed to cover up what the housemates thought was an overdosing death, I am not sure. I suspect the latter is a possibility. The small amount of blood found at the scene may indicate that Wone was already in cardiac arrest at the time of the stabbing. Without a pumping heart, you’d expect a smaller bloody mess.

      I just have a hard time believing these three men, all with much to lose, could have possibly plotted the murder of a friend for no real gain. But I could believe they covered up an accidental death.

      Finally, I am not disputing that their actions constitute one or many crimes. Clearly they do. I do not seek to condone or minimize any of what took place. I just want to understand it.

      • Steven
        06/30/2010 at 5:11 PM

        Thanks for the clarification. I want to understand it as well — and I do see that your hypothesis makes sense.

        “Murder” is one of those legal terms that is broader than you may think. Let me explain. There is no evidence that Wone was gay. Thus, given the circumstances of his death, it is possible that he was injected with an incapacitating drug without his consent. Even if the intent of the perpetrator was not to kill, but to engage in “play” with Wone, it was still murder. It would be what we lawyers call “depraved heart” murder — where one engages in reckless conduct, with an indifference to the safety of another. One example is firing a rifle into a forest where you know people are. Same here. Injecting a drug into someone, or engaging in “sharp” play with knives, indifferent to the risk that either thing could kill, is still murder, even if the consequence (death) was not specifically intended. It certainly is not “accidental” by any reasonable definition of that word.

  21. WhatHappened
    06/30/2010 at 3:26 PM

    I just happened across this story recently. From the reading I have done up to this point it seems farely clear what happened – with only the main question of who made the fatal wounds being a mystery.

    Here is what I propose happened. Robert Wone was not a willing participant in any of this.

    My reasoning, if he was a cloested homosexual man or even bi-sexual with heavy interest in s&m; evidence to the fact would have turned up by now. In searching personal computers/emails/web site subscriptions/personal phone calls/places of interest that he frequented/bars/clubs….all of which I’m sure the investigators had access to they would have found something showing any “hidden” interests he tried to keep quiet in his life. On top of that, even if he just went to a gay bar every once in a while to “release” his pent up sexual frustrations – surely one of the gay men he had intercourse with or sexualized sadomasochistic experiences would have come forward and said yes I did meet this man once at this place that or employees of certain establishments would say they recognized him as well. Therefor I say its clear, he was not at all a willing participant. Lastly – and I’ll try not to be vulgar but it will be hard to explain – if he was a practicing homosexual man and via the evidence finding his own sperm inside his anal cavity any good physician would be able to tell if he had long term scarring in his anal cavity or if it was all freshly made um taring/wounds. I’ll leave it at that.

    The “family” situation.

    Zaborsky, having made the clear cut statement that Ward was not an “equal” in the three way relationship shows that there was tension in their little family. Why else would he state it as such? I beleive Zaborsky therefor played the “unwilling” accomplice in this entire scenario. I offer this – Zaborsky and Price had a committed LTR but as in all long relationships partners lose some sexual interest or the ember burns less bright at times than at others. Zaborsky though fully in love with his partner allowed Price to partake in what he needed sexually to be gratified fully. I believe Zaborsky not having participated in the s&m – or so I believe from what I’ve read (I may have missed it if he did participate) simply lived his life and mentally seperated himself from what went on in the bedroom on the second floor. “See no evil” and it does not exist. Therefor on the night of the event it would not have been out of the question that Zaborsky if hearing any “grunts/groans/screams” may have been so used to this event in his house that it would not have phased him at all – while Price/Ward were busy in a fiendish act. It would have only popped into his head secondhand that – wait!? we have a guest in the house tonight, are they actually doing their s&m play while someone else is here. What may have run through his head would have been embarressment and an unwillingness to have to explain to a “guest” what was going on. He may have played see no evil AND hear no evil as it was not his responsibility to explain their sexual habits. He may have rolled over and shut his eyes ignoring the whole matter until he became suspicious when the murder/and then clean up began. In any event Zaborsky would have been pre conditioned to try and best “ignore” any noises he didn’t want to hear coming from the bedroom below him. I believe what was stated in the affidavit therefor was true when Zaborsky says he became hysterical. Only he became hysterical after coming down from the bedroom alone to find Price/Ward covered in blood and most likely “rubber/latex” suits (you can find these easily on any s&m websites that sell gear). Price/Ward would most likely have carried the body in some sort of heavy plastic sheet/tarp downstairs to the back patio where then most likely Ward hosed off Price quickly so that he could go then deal with Zaborsky and explain to him what the story was going to be now and what he must say. Zaborsky being non confrontational which is evident in that he allows his partner to have a sexual relationship apart from him – would have offered up a slight fight but quickly would have bent to Price’s will and/or threat that “hey you were in the house also, you could have stopped this – you ignored “grunts/moans/screams”….therefor you can be held responsible as well”. In this hysterical state Zaborsky would not have been able to think clearly and rationalize that he had nothing to do with the murder and therefor should not go along with any story.

    Ward/Price. I have one question regarding them that is unanswered? Were they on drugs during this event. Were they tested or was blood taken from them to see if they were on anything? I would have to believe no because any experienced EMT responding to the scene or police/investigators would immediately be able to tell if someone was high in their presence. Nothing is mentioned of this in the affidavit although the EMT’s took great notice of everything in the house being very neat, surely if Ward/Price were high (dilated eyes/sweating) they would have made a note of it. But its not mentioned clearly if they were tested for any drugs themselves. I have been around people that are high – some hide it very well only showing very clear signs as they are coming down. Anyway this is besides the point.

    Price is a lawyer. I offer this; while I cannot say which one or if they jointly decided they were going to rape and or kill Wone – Price provided the pre wrapped defense. I have to believe then that him sitting and thinking how he can legally protect himself and have that defense ready – he would be the most heavily suspect to be the one pushing for the event to occur. As he is a lawyer he realized that they would have to prove who plunged a knife into the victim and therefor murdered him, it would not be enough that he was simply in their house when he died – they need the evidence that someone’s hand pushed that knife into Wone’s heart otherwise there is no conviction for murder. Price would have sat and thought out how he would bend Zaborsky to his will and what would be said when police were called. Price would have known to get rid of as much evidence (blood/weapon) as possible to impede the evidence and further deteriorate any prosecutions case. Price would have coached what the story would be to Ward and forced Zaborsky to go along. I believe Price is most responsible. Price was the only one who had the long term relationship with Wone. In murders across the country we all fear that stranger lurking across the street that looks shady – but its shown in statistics that we are more likely to be killed/harmed/murdered by someone we know than by a “crazy” stranger. I believe Price distracted Wone with small talk while they sat comfortably with each other sharing that glass of water that he mentioned they had when Wone arrived. Wone would have not has his guard up at all afterall he was sitting talking with an old friend tired after a long day. Ward came from behind quietly and injected Wone with “the paralyzing agent”. There would have been no struggle at all, it would have been quick and relatively silent perhaps a slight moan/groan could have escaped from Wone’s mouth before he was incapacitated.

    Ward. In s&m the dominant role in the sexualized play involving physical pain/bondage – the dominator is actually not fully in charge as it might appear. Unless Ward/Price had a master/slave relationship…..Price was actually the one with the power in the s&m lifestyle that they practiced. In traditional s&m roles – the submissive is given a safe word to assure there is control in the relationship and things don’t take an unfortunate or fatal course. In a traditional s&m relationship that safe word is like the word of god – you cannot go against it or you betray your submissives trust and the entire act of giving up your body to another to do as they please – it requires boundless trust. In traditional s&m relationships drugs are shunned because it betrays the raw unimpeded physical emotion that one is trying to experience while being the one inflicting the pain or receiving it. It is when drugs are introduced to the s&m experience that the traditional rules start to bend/break and the natural safety that experienced men/women strictly follow…ends. It was shown that there was evidence of drugs in the residence, this may have lead to the unfortunate events. Ward/Price may have come up with the scheme in an altered state and then followed through with it even when they were sober. I believe Ward had began wanting a more morbid experience as evidence of the literature found in his bedroom – but he was emotionally attached to Price and needed a warm body to experience his fantasy with when Price informed Ward of Wone’s coming visit Ward alone or Ward/Price jointly saw an open chance to experience something new and raw and violent. This experience would be outside of their s&m constraints and rules of trust and allow them to use Wone as their unknowing warm body (victim). They may not have planned to murder Wone from the start but I think the multiple injection points in Wone’s body tell us something. Why multiple injections? If the first injection was enough to knock Wone out without leaving any sign at all of a fight…why continue to inject him.

    I believe they were drunk on the power they were experiencing in his pliable warm body – simply put, they did not want the experience to stop. After the initial injection and whatever they did to him – they applied more and more to continue their “play”. At some point them may have thought or perhaps could not tell if he had a pulse any longer and then panicked and decided it was necessary to make it seem like he had been murdered by a mystery intruder OR once they were done with their actions to his body they had previously decided that they did not want to deal with a concious Wone and explain any questions he may have about any physical pain his body was experiencing. Either way – they either sexualized his murder and achieved the “ultimate” vile/dark experience in his rape and murder or they murdered him as conveniance to prevent further questions at a later point by blaming a phantom intruder.

    Family – currently they are now a family of a different sort united by the criminal act itself and inseperable by it. To change their story now would be torcherous and unimagineable. They would only recieve more time in jail if any of them deviated from the story now. Its in none of their interests. This is what happened. In my opinion.

    • Carolina
      07/07/2010 at 5:55 PM

      So I see you haven’t read much. Honestly, that was a lot of work to be so very wrong on so many proven points.

    • Eagle
      07/07/2010 at 8:00 PM

      I see some very believable and new ideas here.
      Thanks so much

    • Clio
      07/07/2010 at 9:44 PM

      I liked your analysis of “family”: no longer tied by “polyamorous” or even “bigamous” activity, the trouple are kept together now by their lies in a sexless, Boston marriage that even Susan B. Anthony would recognize. No wonder Dyl was driven to advertise right before the trial — the convent of culpability was growing too tiresome. They probably should have held a garage sale for any remaining items in their reduced erotica collection at Aunt Marcia’s, right before their bus trip to Miami.

      And, your juxtaposition of Ward/Price vis-a-vis “traditional” BDSM arrangements was especially clear. Thanks.

    • Alli
      07/19/2010 at 9:09 AM

      It seems to me highly likely that Joe Price has Narcissistic Personality Disorder and is either a sociopath or psychopath. For those who’ve never closely encountered someone with NPD, I can assure you it’s an extremely demanding, draining, just horribly wrecking experience.
      Someone with NPD will manipulate EVERYONE that they have ever had contact with. They have no feelings. No emotions. No remorse. Only means to THEIR ends.
      Worst off is the ‘Narcissistic Supply,’ the person who bears the brunt of the sociopath’s outrage. NPDs will emotionally, and often physically, abuse their ‘romantic’ partners to no end. They are vicious and cruel, will make their victims feel they are worthless without them, at fault, to blame. NPDs are able to control people to a degree that is almost impossible to comprehend if you yourself are ‘normal’.
      From the way Mr. Price attempted to position himself as a victim to mutual friends of his and Wone’s to his (seemingly) intense need for the new and next lead me to believe he is one of these demons.
      Joe Price having NPD is a provides a pretty good explanation for how he could convince one or two other adults to stick their cockamamy cover story. Of course, Victor Zaborsky’s self-esteem would have been rendered so low he’d also believe Joe’s threats that no one would believe him if he came forward with the truth.

      • Bruce
        07/19/2010 at 12:12 PM

        Hi Alli:

        I am a DEVIL’S ADVOCATE today:

        As I mentioned in another recent post, I have trouble painting any of the three at Swann with serious mental problems, since they all seemed to be highly functioning personalities, and, most important, Robert Wone continued a long relationship with Price, and even invited his wife into that relationship. I think we have to give some credit to Robert Wone that he would distance himself and his wife from any “crazies” in his life.

        While it is certainly possible that JP had NPD and is a sociopath or phsycopath (which I now think are really the same thing), I have no reason to think that he had “no feelings, no emotions, no remorse,” as you state. I think we need to have a longer study of JP to come to those conclusions. At least a sit down with a psychiatrist or psychologist.

        We don’t have a lot to analize as to this issue. The 3’s statements to the police were produced under very stressful conditions, and, although I am not a doctor, I would suggest that there may well have been an element of “shock” involved with one or more of the 3. I don’t really think we can learn much from their initial statements or demeanors with the statements to do a psychological profile.

        Their statements to others after the initial police statements, their demeanors and smiles and other displays after the statements are not really revealing, at least I don’t think so. My God, if I had been found Not Guilty in a criminal matter, you better believe that I would smile.

        Also, none of the other two seemed to be in any fear of JP from what I see. Yes, did JP apparently stare at Dylan when the police were at the home, trying, as we speculate, to keep Dylan from talking? But this is the only evidence of any “control” over Dylan, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest a lack of control over Dylan or VZ. I don’t know how to interpret that stare at all. Could he be saying with the stare, “Dylan, I am the attorney in the group, won’t you let me handle this?” That’s pretty innocent. He did not order the other 2 to ask for attorneys and not speak to police.

        JP’s e-mails to Dylan about their relationship do not support the NPD theory, but show JP in a very weak position, expressing apparently heartfelt love or need for Dylan. Dylan was certainly in the “power seat” with JP in that relationship.

        I have no reason to think that JP was a terror to VZ. VZ had a pretty independent life with his job. I expect that JP and VZ, having been together for a significant time as a gay couple, had come to some type of “arrangement” about extra curricular affairs. When JP suggested to Dylan that they try for a 3-way when VZ was out, this may very well have been something done according to this arrangement, not to stick VZ’s nose in it, so to speak.

        There really is nothing to show me that VZ or Dylan were in fear of JP, clearly I feel that the evidence shows the opposite.

        All 3 were highly educated, socially mobile employed gentlemen. JP becoming a partner at a firm like his is evidence, but not proof, that he “had it together” enough to put together a very successful sustaining job.

        The other thing that goes against a theory of serious mental disease is that JP seemed to have a hell of a lot of friends (the UVA gang, et al) that seriously seemed to like him, and to which he kept up and seemed to seriously like them. Sociopaths would have a hard time maintaining those types of relationship which require work to maintain and flourish.

        Again, there is absolutely no evidence that JP ever abused mentally or physically anyone in that Swann house.

        That JP portrayed himself as a “victim” to mutual friends does not seem unusual to me at all. If he is innocent, he has had his home wrecked to the tune of around $250,000.00 without recompense, has lost his job at the lawfirm, and has had everything he has said or done turned on him, and every inconsistency in what he has said turned into a huge mega-deal. If I was not guilty and I had been treated like these guys were by the police, prosecutors and the public (and maybe some this blog?), I would feel like a victim also. That does not lessen or replace his feelings about Robert Wone and his death, in my mind.

        Of course, we are all speculating here. JP could be crazy as a loon for all I know. But I always go back to Robert Wone. I just think he was not the kind of guy to involve himself and his wife with a bunch of wackos, and I don’t think he would have asked JP if he could stay at that house if he had any concerns about the 3’s mental states.

        Please don’t read this as a criticism of your right to express your opinion on this topic. You have every right to express yours, and it sounds like you may have had experience with someone who has NPD, and I don’t mean at all to discount that. I am playing a bit of a Devil’s Advocate, as I mentioned in the beginning of my post. I do not mean to demean your opinion in any way.

        Alli, do you have experience in the mental health field? If not, then we are both kind of “bumping in the night” on this. Is there anyone on here with psychiatric or psychological training that could help Alli and I out on this issue of NPD and posible sociopath tendencies of the 3?

        • altenateguy
          07/19/2010 at 1:16 PM

          Bruce:

          Yours is a well-reasoned and logical argument in my opinion. Where is there evidence of insanity here? Only, of course, in the case of the unknown actual murderer. The three defendants have no such history at all that I can see. On the contrary, in the view of those familiar with them, including Robert and others, they were/are exceedingly well functioning. Like you, I don’t know the truth. But I do try to remain logical. It’s my understand that most sociopaths have some kind of history, usually since childhood.

          • Bruce
            07/19/2010 at 3:13 PM

            Oh boy, Altenateguy, you are probably going to raise some dander with your “unknown actual murderer” statement.

            I wonder if we took a poll on this blog, as to how many people would say that they still hold at least a possibility that there was an unknown actual murderer, not one of the 3, what would be the result? Particularly with the criminal judge now weighing in, I would think it would likely be very few.

            Certainly the police, the prosecutors and the criminal judge weren’t buying it at all. no sir.

            Yet, I find myself not ready, at least for now, to completely and absolutely forsake it.

            So many things make so little sense in this case that an “unknown actual murderer” making little or no sense should not disqualify it from any further consideration! I realize that is a very weak argument, but I am sticking to it at least for now.

            Because the criminal judge found it silly does not mean we have to. I don’t think her law education or her job as a judge somehow qualifies her as an expert on the subject of intruders. The police and prosecutors are certainly more in the know on this issue, but they have an agenda in this case, and an unknown intruder does not fit in with their agenda.

            I think there is a lot of evidence to make the intruder theory seem a lot less likely than one of the 3 being the murderer. So, if you were to ask me, is it more likely that one or more of the 3 were involved in the murder or an intruder, I would say it is more likely that one or more of the 3 were involved.

            However, I don’t think there is any piece of evidence that completely rubs the intruder theory out, no matter how unpopular and seemingly senseless it is.

            Agree with you on the childhoods of pure sociopaths. There usually is at least some history of cruelty and harm to persons or, especially, animals. Recently I read a book called “Columbine,” written by David Collum in 2009, which is probably the best yet on the Columbine school murders and the psychology issues of the murderers.

            The author came to the conclusion, after looking at all the reports and speaking with psychiatrists, that 17-year-old Dylan Klebold was an extremely depressed suicidal personality and that 18-year-old Eric Harris was a pure psychopath/sociopath. The book expresses that there is really no treatment for that condition, and if you are a true psyc/sociopath, you will never improve, as it is simply a part of you. Very sad. Highly recommend the book for anyone into “true crime” fair.

            I am a skeptical Chicago attorney that usually represents defendants, and I certainly would not be similar to any juror who would hear the civil case. Thus my opinions shouldn’t be taken too seriously. I certainly don’t take them that way.

            • KiKi
              07/19/2010 at 3:42 PM

              Great post!

            • Bill Orange
              07/19/2010 at 4:09 PM

              A few side comments.

              Narcissistic personality disorder, along with other personality disorders (like antisocial personality disorder, which has also been thrown around and is closer to the term sociopath or psychopath) isn’t really what a lay-person would consider “insanity”. The closest approximation I can come up with in lay-speak would be “odd but not crazy”. Gloria could probably give you a better definition.

              As for myself, I don’t think the “intruder theory” is impossible; I just think it’s exceedingly unlikely. The silent ninja is only marginally more plausible to me than a teleporting alien (with the electromagnetic pulse from his teleporter setting off the door alarm), and neither meet the threshold for reasonable doubt, in my mind.

              I think the thing that I find most damning about these three men isn’t even illegal–none of them seem to have any regard for the death of their friend, nor do they show any interest in either helping the police find the “real killer” or trying to find him/her/them on their own. It’s all about them. I don’t think they should go to jail for that, but it certainly makes me see them as people that I wouldn’t want to spend the night with. Or give a job to. Or be friends with. Hell, I wouldn’t even want to sit next to them on the subway.

              • Bruce
                07/19/2010 at 4:42 PM

                Hi Bill O:

                Since I am the Devil’s Advocate today, I don’t quite understand your last paragraph.

                It is my understanding that JP took the responsibility to call Robert’s wife to tell her about the murder (that must have been very tough to do), all 3 of them went over to Robert’s wife’s place after the murder to give their condolences, including a private (but wierd, I admit) meeting with her in her basement, and JP was a pall bearer for the funeral. I may be missing some other things they did after the murder, but I’m pretty sure of these.

                We don’t know if any of them really “mourned” his death, I agree, but mourning is a private thing, like prayer. It’s something we wouldn’t know.

                So, can it really be said that they had “no regard” for the death of their friend?

                You also said in your last paragraph that in your view that the 3 had no interest in helping the police. Bill O, I think it became very apparent to the 3 after a bit of questioning that night that the police had ABSOLUTELY NO interest in helping them.

                In fact the police made it quite clear to them that the police suspected they killed Robert and were not going to be persuaded any different. Then the police used absolutely everything they said and their “demeanors” when saying it, against them, without any benefit of a doubt.

                Sorry, but helping the police for the 3 would require a charitable kindness from the 3 that surpasseth understanding, and I could not muster such behavior if I was in their position. Everything they said was used against them by the police. Sorry.

                Finally, in your last paragraph you also state that they should be scorned because they did not try to find the intruder or teleporting alien w/electromagnetic pulse.

                That one is tricky. When OJ said something about that, he became “toast” at the civil trial and was only ridiculed.

                We don’t know what the 3 did to try to figure the thing out, or if they didn’t, but I can tell you without a doubt their attorneys (on their behalf) have likely followed every possible path regarding an intruder or teleporting alien to figure out what really happened and to save their clients.

                Your last paragraph is a reasonable and I would say natural and normal reaction. I just disagree.

                Skeptical attorney.. represent defendants in Chicago… don’t listen to me…I’m an idiot, blah blah blah.

                • Bill Orange
                  07/19/2010 at 5:27 PM

                  It’s not so much a lack of apparent mourning that bothers me. As you said, they went to the funeral, and Joe was a pall bearer.

                  But in the text of their statements, the focus is all about how bad this is for them, not how bad it is for their friend who was just stabbed to death.

                  As to your point that the police had zeroed in on them, so there was no point in continuing the discussions, I have to disagree. They could’ve come back to the police station with their lawyers later in the day and continued to answer questions with their lawyers present. You could argue that they had already told the police everything that they knew, but we know that isn’t really true–for example, nobody told the police that Joe Price’s brother had the keys and the alarm codes to the house.

                  That critical detail alone leads me to believe that at least one of them wasn’t making a good-faith effort to co-operate with the police. Again, you could argue that they wouldn’t want to rat out Joe’s brother if it turned out he had nothing to do with any of this, but Joe was on the phone with Michael before he left the police station, and both he and Victor were outside WITH Michael right after the interviews. It would’ve been relatively straightforward for them to confirm that (a) Michael wasn’t involved, and (b) he had a solid alibi for his whereabouts the previous night. This information could’ve then been communicated to the police via their lawyers, along with whatever other critical information they neglected to reveal that evening.

                  • altenateguy
                    07/19/2010 at 7:18 PM

                    “for example, nobody told the police that Joe Price’s brother had the keys and the alarm codes to the house.”

                    Were they even asked o provide a list of all who all had a key and alarm code to their house? I don’t remember seeing that. And if Joe didn’t consider his brother as a possability, why would he have mentioned that he had such access if he wasn’t asked.

                    If they weren’t asked the most logical question of who had keys, that would be an indication that law enforcment wasn’t really looking beyone them.

                    • Bill Orange
                      07/19/2010 at 7:31 PM

                      At a minimum, Joe Price was supposedly asked during an earlier interview (i.e., before the video tape started rolling). I seem to remember him mentioning that various contractors had keys during the taped interview.But he didn’t mention his brother, who he describedas having a history of violence. That’s a pretty big omission.

                    • carolina
                      07/19/2010 at 9:52 PM

                      For somebody who wants to play devil’s advocate, you sure as hell don’t know much about this case.

        • Alli
          07/22/2010 at 10:41 AM

          Hi Devil’s Advocate-

          Firstly, I am not a mental health professional. You are correct, however, that I have experienced first-hand the wrath of NPD. I discovered my former fiance—a man who very much “passed” as smart, successful, charming, etc—was a textbook sociopath. I cannot describe how bizarre just being with him eventually made ME feel. It is parasitic. So no, I don’t have a PhD, but I guess I made it my mission to find out as much as I possibly could about NPD. (If you’ve got a few hours to kill, I suggest reading through some of the web ‘support groups’ for victims of NPD and/or information about the disorder. It truly is fascinating.)

          It is funny to me how many of the comments seem to say ‘Oh no. Joe was a successful lawyer. He looked normal. He wasn’t a sociopath.’ Now, if ya’ll would kindly turn off the Law&Order… in real life, sociopaths aren’t dirty scoundrels speaking in tongues in their mothers’ basements… it is very easy for them to ‘pass’ and ‘passing’ can actually fuel their entire existence. They create an image, a persona, because inside they are empty. They are charmers and the will keep their ‘disease’ hidden for as long as they can, or as long as they care to. It can be easy to hide, especially since they are so darn good at lying.

          Keep in mind it’s probable that many public figures, actors, politicians, etc. have some form of NPD. Can you say, ‘Mel Gibson’?

  22. DKB
    07/07/2010 at 5:25 PM

    Is it possible to exhume Mr. Wone’s body and test for the drugs that they did not test for before.

    Then, they could prove that he was given drugs that paralyzed him.

    I think all three of them knew he was going to die from the drugs they gave him and stabbed him to cover up the crime.

    • Carolina
      07/07/2010 at 5:53 PM

      Of course there is always the possibility they’d find nothing. It’s rather like an attorney asking a question of a witness: If you don’t know the answer, better not to ask.

  23. JCXer2
    07/16/2010 at 8:09 PM

    Novice blog reader … following this for the sheer fascination of wonder. I travel to DC on business and learned of this website through “bar stool chatter.” HOOKED – ever since.

    I will not submit my opinions, as with the evidence … it seems to change everyday. I, am an American, would like to think that the “throuple” are innocent, until proven guilty – but cannot (yet) form my true opinion. It’s like Wimbledon … watching the heads bounce … following that ball. Defense. Prosecution. Defense … etc.

    Here are my questions – I cannot seem to find the actual transcripts from DW while being interrogated. (Found JP and VZ) – does it exist? On this or any other webpage – are there actual full-length versions of the videotaped interrogations for any of the three … or just the “convenient clips” from the (f’ed up) MPD?

    Sorry if this has been posted, asked, answered and directed before … I started reading the blog late and am still playing catch-up. Thanks in advance.

  24. JCXer2
    07/17/2010 at 10:11 AM

    Thank you AnnaZed

    I must have tech issues regarding the transcripts. On “Third Degree” for JP and VZ, I find and am able to read the PDF. With DW, no such luck.

    (and thank you for the welcome) ~JCXer

    • AnnaZed
      07/17/2010 at 10:52 AM

      I don’t know what to suggest (scrolling?).

      Here it is on Scribd:

      http://www.scribd.com/doc/29900653/Ward-Mpd-02aug06

      • JCXer2
        07/17/2010 at 4:25 PM

        Thank you (again)! I followed your link… and presto – was able to finally read DW’s interrogation transcripts. Wow.

        As a gay man and reading all three now, I didn’t catch the whole homophobe behavior from the detectives. “We” go through worse on a daily basis in our work environments, taking the train or even when we’re buying the latest electro-sexual toy for playtime after Runway.

        Thanks again Anna – you rock.

  25. Bruce
    07/20/2010 at 11:12 AM

    Caolina:

    Last night you left a post, apparently directed to me, that said: “For somebody who wants to play devil’s advocate, you sure as hell don’t know much about this case.” There was no room to further reply. Could you describe to me what in my posts yesterday indicates to you that I don’t know much about the case? If I am messing up facts, etc., I would like to know. Thanks.

  26. 10/27/2010 at 6:41 PM

    cleaning supplies should be environment friendly too, choose cleaning supplies which does not harm the environment;;*

    • Linda S.
      12/13/2011 at 1:04 PM

      which “do” not harm the environment. 🙂

  27. AnnaZed
    06/06/2013 at 11:59 AM

    The spam is really overwhelming the site now, is anyone minding the store? I know that you guys are busy.

    Maybe post something on the top page announcing that comments will only be accepted now on the last thread and monitor that. Clean out all the spam then close the comments on the many other threads, but leave them up for posterity? Something like that.

    • susan
      06/08/2013 at 10:48 AM

      Hey AnnaZ, I wonder what causes the spam to appear and if an active spammer is responsible or a computer glitch is.

      Anyway, all that spam makes me want to post this new picture I found. I prefer rice milk, myself:

      http://ragantraining.com/speakers/victor-zaborsky

      • AnnaZed
        06/10/2013 at 12:28 PM

        Hi Susan, Long time no see! That ‘3 Stooges’ (is it Mo, Larry or Curly?) photo of Victor is really ODD, wouldn’t you say so?

        Regarding the spam, they just look like normal computer generated phishing spams to me, icky and dangerous some, merely annoying others. They are very hard for the filters to detect because they ride in on fake “comment” text. I think our fearless leaders probably had to hand eliminate them before and that now that the site is dormant they have left it to the site software which is not adequate to catch this type of assault.

        Which is to say that it is highly unlikely to be the work of one master spammer; it’s just the environment for blogs these days. Sad truth.

        • susan
          06/10/2013 at 10:53 PM

          Thanks, AnnaZ! Your comment re the photo was so funny (probably because the photo is so funny!). Thanks. I needed that laugh. Thanks for explaining how the spam works, and thanks to Doug for responding.

    • Doug
      06/10/2013 at 11:59 AM

      Anna – you’re right. We’ll work on this.

  28. Bea
    06/17/2013 at 6:25 PM

    Hilarious photo of Victor!

    • Clio
      06/19/2013 at 9:23 AM

      His expression seems to say:
      (1) Joe, get off Scruff, and get a job! Plus, pay our cable bill, while you’re at it!
      (2) Dyl, you water the plants this time: I’m actually going out to Town with my new gal pal, and we won’t be back tonight!

  29. september6432
    08/05/2015 at 3:18 PM

    Judging by the amount of opinions, this is definately a truly involved subject. Everytime I return to this post there’s an interesting visitor post better than some of the prior ones.

  30. Poppy
    09/16/2016 at 4:23 PM

    I heard about this case from the Generation Why podcast this week and couldn’t believed I had never heard of it.

    Robert’s family and friends deserve to know what happened not to mention the perpetrator(s) should face justice.

    Is anyone out there still talking about this case? Are new items being posted to this site or are there none to post?

    Late to the conversation on this case but very interested.

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