The Third Degree: Price

Joe Price’s MPD Interview Transcript

“It ain’t going to get fine.  It’s going to get ugly,” Price is told midway through his long night with good cop/bad cop at the Anacostia Violent Crimes Branch.

There’s a lot in these 120 pages and still a lot we don’t know.  Were these transcripts from the videotaped part of the night’s questioning?  If so, what wasn’t recorded?

The first interview (part I) ended at 5:30am and the second (part II) concluded at 10:30am.

These transcripts were provided as attachments in Assistant US Attorney Glenn Kirschner’s response to the defendants’ motions to suppress; the docs are Attachments A and B.  As far as the motion to suppress, Kirschner may have Price dead in his sights.  At the conclusion of his second interview, Price admitted to Detective Kasul that he returned for questioning voluntarily.  This may effectively neuter Bernie  Grimm’s Miranda charge.

These pages may not be a Rosetta Stone but they do make the straw we see this case through a little bit wider.  Just a few pull quotes:

“I could see there was a lot more blood on the bed in, like two spots.  It kind of went under him.”

“This is the worst thing that has ever happened to me.”

“I couldn’t stop Victor from screaming… I was yelling we need an ambulance.”

“This is a lot more like TV.”

“…Mercedes, Mercedes, Mercedes.  I mean, people like us. We spent a million two on the house.”

“This isn’t our life.  This is like something out of a bad dream.  This doesn’t happen to people.”

Ward and Zaborsky’s transcripts go up in the coming days.  Maybe when laid side-by-side the straw will widen even more.

At one point, bad cop told Price, “You are coming to Jesus tonight.”  Later in the evening, morning rather, Price finally caved to the detective’s pressure and confessed,  “I believe in God.”

-posted by Craig

Docs after the jump.  Notes: Personal information redacts are ours.  At the end of part II is Attachment F, an email from Joe Price to a friend where he said he and his co-defendants would continue to “volunteer information.”  Those redacts are the government’s.

Price MPD  Part I  Aug., 2, 2006

Price MPD  Part II  Aug., 2, 2006

259 comments for “The Third Degree: Price

  1. TK
    04/07/2010 at 10:28 AM

    “This is the worst thing that has ever happened to me.”

    Yes well, what about what happened to Robert? Was there much sympathy for his poor, brutally murdered friend?

    “I couldn’t stop Victor from screaming… I was yelling we need an ambulance.”

    Yet the neighbor apparently only heard one scream; no yelling. That seems strange. Though if Victor was not involved in the murder and came upon the scene, I can imagine that he might scream.

    I’ll have to read the whole thing later, but those two things jumped out at me.

    • David
      04/07/2010 at 10:40 AM

      TK,

      I’ve read through all the transcripts, and your first impression that this is an event that happened to Joe, not Robert, is echoed throughout his transcript as well as the other Swann Street housemates. I found it shocking that on the night Robert died they made this event all about them. Disturbing.

      David

      • TK
        04/07/2010 at 11:28 AM

        David,

        Given what we (seem) to know about Joe, it actually does not surprise me that much. He sounds totally self-absorbed and everything is about how it affects /him/.

    • AnnaZed
      04/08/2010 at 3:15 PM

      Yes, TK not only did the neighbors not hear any yelling there is no yelling to be heard on the 911 tape. We do have Joe asking Victor to inquire about the time, but no frantic yelling for help on that tape beyond Ma’am’s despairing whimpers.

  2. former crackho
    04/07/2010 at 11:25 AM

    “…Mercedes, Mercedes, Mercedes. I mean, people like us. We spent a million two on the house.”

    MUAHHAHHAHAAA!!!

    This is Priceless. I am embarrassed for them.

    • TK
      04/07/2010 at 11:29 AM

      When I read that I thought WTH? I can’t wait to read what triggered that ridiculous comment.

      • Clio
        04/09/2010 at 10:55 PM

        But by the morning, in part 2, a more weary Joe is more self-mocking about the trouple pretensions than he was at the 3Ms; his phrase “our fucking decorative pottery” especially stands out to me.

  3. Vandy
    04/07/2010 at 11:49 AM

    Why your redactions? These are public records, and if they’re not redacted, why do so now? You’ve done this in the past with other docs only to find they are on the internet (unredacted).

    • Craig
      04/07/2010 at 11:55 AM

      Vandy: We’re not going publish anyone’s social security number or cell phone number.

      • Vandy
        04/07/2010 at 12:02 PM

        Oh, makes sense for the SS No.

  4. anonymous
    04/07/2010 at 11:51 AM

    Where does he say the thing about the “black guy”?

    • CDinDC
      04/07/2010 at 1:05 PM

      Anonymous,
      I think that was said to an officer at the scene. The transcripts are from statements taken at the police station.

    • AnnaZed
      04/07/2010 at 2:44 PM

      Different transcript anon, Joe’s racist musings are quoted here:

      http://tinyurl.com/Opposition-to-Defendants-Moti

  5. Hoya Loya
    04/07/2010 at 12:14 PM

    In earlier filings, I had noticed that material disclosed by the government included records of AF brand protection work for RFA – this raised questions in my mind as to whether Robert had asked Joe to do work in this area or if Joe was trying to solicit business from Robert, as well as whether AF got the work.

    Now, early in this transcript, Joe discloses that he was pitching this business to Robert and had pitch materials ready for him that night. A quick online trademark search discloses that RFA had used another W&M alum lawyer for trademark work in the past and that they used him again after the murder.

    Joe was a recent partner, almost certainly a non-equity partner, and probably under pressure to bring in his own paying, as opposed to pro bono gay rights-related, business or diligent work for other partners’ clients. He’s counting on long-time friend Robert, his mentee, for whom he has done so much, to bring him RFA’s work. Robert rejects the pitch – “we already have a brand protection lawyer, you might know him from W&M” — and Joe goes off. After all he’s done for Robert, and he needs the business so badly …

    More professional jealousy stuff in the second transcript — the whole dissertation on how Joe had made partner but Robert was just not Covington partner material …

    Most smart lawyers know that a good GC position can be a dream job, preferable to being a partner — better hours, less pressure etc. Joe must have been envious.

    • TK
      04/07/2010 at 1:36 PM

      Interesting, Hoya, this could put a whole new spin on it. Joe wanting to get back at his former mentee by showing him who’s boss…

      A strange thing though about him claiming that he made this pitch to Robert that night… one more item to be squeezed into an already very tight timeline.

    • jk
      04/09/2010 at 10:34 AM

      You know nothing. JP’s business was just fine.

      • AnnaZed
        04/09/2010 at 11:44 AM

        jk, JP’s “business” was “just fine” (?) tell me more, exactly (since I know nothing about it ~ seriously).

    • CDinDC
      04/09/2010 at 10:56 AM

      Hoya,
      I threw professional jealously out there a while back and have I’ve always believed that Robert trumped Joe professionally. However, I was summarily dismissed by many people. The argument being that a General Counsel job is less prestigious, less money, etc.

      Personally, I thought becoming G.C. at an international agency such as RFA, was a platform from which Robert could launch himself into a different realm of legal work.

      I see law firms as microcosms important to themselves and the private concerns they typically deal with. I thought Robert stepped out of his microcosm and into a position in which he could have a greater social impact.

    • Hoya Loya
      04/09/2010 at 11:07 AM

      jk: if that’s the case, then this bit of speculation doesn’t work. Bea also questioned below whether RFA business could have amounted to much and on reflection I agreed. But I still think possible rejection of the pitch may have played some role in what transpired, however minor, or that the pitch might have provided an excuse for the get-together.

      CD: I think you are right about Robert’s motivation. The salary is not the point — it’s the lifestyle and the ability, in this case, to do some good at the same time.

  6. CDinDC
    04/07/2010 at 1:17 PM

    I love Joe’s random comment about Sarah… “She’s very heavy, she doesn’t come upstairs.”

    • SheKnowsSomething
      04/07/2010 at 1:28 PM

      He’s a complete ass.

      I wonder why Joe told the detective that Sarah had her own car? That statement was completely untrue.

      • AnnaZed
        04/07/2010 at 2:36 PM

        Really, how very odd, to make up something like that on the spot, It’s a strange detail to state that she owns a car when she doesn’t, a thing so easily disproved.

        Plus this mention of how heavy she is. Is he saying that he would hear her if she came up the stairs because she is so heavy or that she is so heavy that even going up the stairs is unthinkable, again very odd. I wonder also amongst a group of shallow vain men just how heavy she would need to be to be designated really big by them or if she is (technically) obese and why he thought he should just throw that detail in. Supposedly she wasn’t even there.

        • John Grisham
          04/07/2010 at 2:56 PM

          Or, that Joe was attempting to establish that there was no way jumbo Sarah could have EVER made her way up the stairs, discover Robert’s lifeless body, and scream.

          • AnnaZed
            04/07/2010 at 3:02 PM

            Well regardless of what he was trying to say, unless she is wheelchair bound from obesity than that is technically untrue. She obviously made her way up and down the stairs of her own apartment all the time.

            Incidentally, in addition to no concern for the whereabouts or safety of Dylan ever being expressed or described by Joe in his account of waking up to the chime and hearing the grunts (either later or not later depending on which version) he also seems to express no concern or describe no instinct to determine Sarah’s whereabouts after finding the mortally wounded Robert even though he says that he was woken from sleep by the chime and thought that she was in the house.

            • CDinDC
              04/07/2010 at 3:28 PM

              Joe also inferred that Robert drove to work. That is also inaccurate. I would imagine that Joe knew Robert took public transportation. And I can’t imagine that it wasn’t discussed prior to that day.

            • John Grisham
              04/07/2010 at 3:31 PM

              That’s obvious. Sarah lived down the stairs in the basement. So Joe was still obviously attempting to establish something by this unusual assertion that supersized Sarah “doesn’t come upstairs.”

              • AnnaZed
                04/07/2010 at 3:34 PM

                Well I hear you on that John, but what?

                • John Grisham
                  04/07/2010 at 3:38 PM

                  You already know my views. That it was Sarah who screamed, and who also participated in the cover-up.

    • CuriousinVA
      04/07/2010 at 10:24 PM

      I thought Sarah came and went through their front door. Wasn’t that earlier established (since there is no separate entrance to her apartment)?

      • Nelly
        04/08/2010 at 8:34 AM

        There is a separate entrance, in the back, but Sarah knew ’em so well that apparently she also used the front entrance too.

        • SheKnowsSomething
          04/08/2010 at 10:09 AM

          I don’t recall that back entrance being easily accessible without going thru the alley and two gates.

          • Nelly
            04/08/2010 at 7:08 PM

            Correct, though there was one gate at the time of the murder.

  7. rk
    04/07/2010 at 1:39 PM

    “I lifted up his shirt to see the wounds, and there was blood everywhere.” Page 62.

    Also, “There was a lot of blood on the bed.” Page 75.

    How does the defense or anyone supporting the defendants account for the lack of blood at the scene in light of these two statements?

    • METO
      04/08/2010 at 11:12 AM

      RK:

      Your post here goes to the crux of the present criminal case and really cannot be ignored. I have not yet seen (or read) the Defendants’ response to the Gov’t Opposition to the Motion to Suppress, but I was quite impressed by the Government answer. If these statements are admitted and then the jury is presented the evidence that there is no blood, all of the experts are simply irrelevant. All the U.S. Attorney need argue is they said there was blood after the supposed intruder was gone and now there is no blood. The defendants’ story must be considered in light of these statements. To the jury: “The only plausible explanation is a conspiracy to cover-up what really happened and that is what the defendants are charged with.” Simple, to the point and using the defendants’ own words against them.

      Respectfully,

      Meto

      • rk
        04/08/2010 at 1:26 PM

        JP will not be taking the stand to explain away these comments. The jury will be shown these statements about “blood everywhere” and will have to compare that to (a) the sheets on the bed, (b) photographs of the blood at the scene, (c) testimony from blood splatter experts about what happens when someone is stabbed three times in the heart (ummm, they bleed profusely), and (d) testimony from the EMT’s who found the body and no blood. Perhaps Joe wasn’t exactly lying because there was blood everywhere at one point….. but where did it go? It’s not as if Joe made a single passing comment about blood everywhere – he said it twice. The prosecution will argue some went down the drain and some went into the washer and dryer……

        How will the defense counter this narrative without putting the defendants on the stand? Can they expect a jury to believe that someone could be stabbed in the heart, not turn sideways at all, not make a sound, and then have all of the blood drain back into the puncture wounds? Can the defense argue that these were self draining puncture wounds? I don’t think a jury would buy that.

        • Clio
          04/10/2010 at 9:20 AM

          Yet, at least one worrisome (to Joe) drop of blood was on Culuket’s middle finger. So, we can account for a drop there, too.

          The lack of blood and blood-stained evidence remain the defense’s weakest link.

          CD’s suggestion of the patio grill being used to burn evidence — including bloody sheets and towels, I trust, has already been explored. Who grills steaks on a weeknight and then does not invite a guest to have a bite?

          • CDinDC
            04/10/2010 at 1:41 PM

            Clio,

            They ate before Robert arrived. It was in Joe’s statement that they ate early in the evening.

            I’ve not seen anything in any court documents indicating that the grill was examined. Too bad.

          • CDinDC
            04/10/2010 at 1:47 PM

            Also, why would Joe go to the extent of discussing having doused the grill (as well as the flooding of the upstairs bathroom)?

            They burned something in that grill besides steaks. I don’t think Joe would have incorporated that into his statement if they hadn’t.

            It’s “plausible” as Joe would say.

            • AnnaZed
              04/10/2010 at 1:51 PM

              I think at the time he just thought he was cleverly (plausibly) explaining why the upstairs bathroom and the entire patio area was awash with water.

              • CDinDC
                04/10/2010 at 2:13 PM

                Not sure why everyone wants to poo poo the burning something in the grill theory. They didn’t find any cleanup materials did they?

                they could very well have burned some things in the grill. Being that it was probably a gas grill, ashes in the grill would not have made sense. They may have doused the grill to get the ashes out and sprayed them into the drain on the patio. Hence, the cadaver dogs hitting a scent in the drain.

                Here’s an article about cadaver dog training in which they use ashes as a training tool.

                http://canfieldk9training.com/files/BayWeekly8-16-09-2.pdf

                • AnnaZed
                  04/10/2010 at 2:31 PM

                  Wow, I’m starting to be convinced that you have something there.

                  Unfortunately, I’ve already been sort of convinced that the thoroughness, deductive thinking and professionalism that one might hope for in an urban constabulary is a somewhat lacking in the DC MPD so the chances of their having looked into this seem slim to none to me.

                  • CDinDC
                    04/10/2010 at 3:04 PM

                    “slim to none”….I have no doubt that our esteemed PD didn’t consider it. “Hey Officer Smith…will you push that grill out of the way so we can investigate out here?”

                    Not to mention, there has been nothing in any documents showing the grill was examined.

                    Pity. Score 1 for the defense, if so.

          • AnnaZed
            04/15/2010 at 10:39 PM

            Back to this blood on Joe’s finger thing; why was he so worried about that? He was stanching his dear friend’s wound (ha!) so of course he got blood on himself, not strange or incriminating at all. Yet he says that he thought the policeman noticed it and he has to explain that he washed it off, that he went to the bathroom three times (!) and washed his hands. It’s like Lady Macbeth.

  8. CJ Biggs
    04/07/2010 at 2:19 PM

    Price’s story sounds totally implausible when set out in the transcript. How is it possible that he would hear the downstairs door chime, and also hear Robert’s “grunting” a few minutes later, but did NOT hear any sounds in between, such as the footsteps of the “intruder” walking up the stairs, any sounds associated with the killing itself, or any sounds of footstps of the “intruder” fleeing down the stairs. This story makes no sense.

  9. rk
    04/07/2010 at 2:25 PM

    It just so happened…. that during the first interview, one of the cracks in Joe’s story was that the back door was closed on the way out by the fleeing intruder. The detectives explained they thought it was odd that an intruder would carefully close the door behind him.

    Cut to the second interview…. now the back door is unlocked and “not flush with the frame” – in other words, left adjar as if someone was leaving in a hurry. How convenient.

  10. Just Another Friend
    04/07/2010 at 2:39 PM

    So, Lisa Goddard, you were there are the police station in the a.m. with Michael Price when the trouple finally departed? Very interesting.

    • CDinDC
      04/08/2010 at 6:15 PM

      From Part II of the statement, she maybe had Joe’s wallet.

  11. Hoya Loya
    04/07/2010 at 2:59 PM

    And let’s not overlook, on page 75 of the first transcript “Was Robert stabbed on the floor downstairs?” and on page 23 of the second transcript: “… did you tell an officer that he was stabbed downstairs?”

    Also interesting, given earlier speculation here, is Joe specifying, without being asked, that Robert was paired with him on his overnight W&M visit “randomly” after he had earlier served as his campus tour guide.

    And what does Michael’s HIV status have to do with anything? Why mention that?

  12. Spike
    04/07/2010 at 3:00 PM

    I find it really odd, although not particularly indicative of anything, that Joe got all sensitive about the detective rather artlessly introducing the you lusted after this straight guy thing, but then later on Joe twice refers to his younger “gay brother.” What a strange detail to include when talking to a guy you’ve intimated is homophobic.

    • CDinDC
      04/07/2010 at 3:33 PM

      Good point, Spike.

  13. CDinDC
    04/07/2010 at 3:39 PM

    Given the rambling nature of Joe’s statements, I hope to see him on the stand. Maybe a rigorous examination by counsel will cause him to get flustered and misspeak.

    I actually a bit surprised by Joe’s statements…..fDoesn’t appear that he was prepared for the questioning.

    And isn’t it a bit strange that Joe likened what happened to TV?

  14. Bea
    04/07/2010 at 3:53 PM

    Some “kernals” of truth:

    Victor WAS miffed;

    11:43 WAS told to JOE by Victor in 911 call if I recall correctly – AND it was clear the trio had indeed discussed the night’s description to a T – Joe is hellbent on saying that either the 911 operator or Victor screwed up, but if memory serves, Joe is told at that time;

    The 11:43 stamp messes up Joe’s timeline of the killing happening around 11:30-11:35 – fifteen/twenty minutes is a long time to wait to call 911. He’s clearly just backing out some time to fit what he believes to be the “correct” time;

    I am back to thinking that Victor did scream because at THAT point he didn’t know squat – that HE had run down the stairs when he heard noises but that Joe and Dylan were already there; Joe DID try to calm him and EVENTUALLY told him to go call 911 (after Victor memorized the story);

    The officers make a good point – Joe talks in a ‘we’ context as though they’ve discussed it. Dylan and Victor could not have done it – Dylan was never near the body – how would he know if he wasn’t near the body the entire time? He knew his DNA would not be on THAT knife (though his fingerprints were) since that wasn’t the knife used to kill Robert.

    Can’t wait to see Victor and Dylan’s transcripts.

    WHY did Joe allow Michael to beat him up a lot? Isn’t Joe larger?

    Questions, questions. It’s clear he thinks he’s smarter than everyone. FYI, the RFA trademark account would NOT be a big one; it might feel like a personal insult NOT to get it but I just don’t see that as triggering serious anger. Most of us know that after 2 weeks in a job, a new GC isn’t at liberty to start changing outside counsel.

    • Clio
      04/07/2010 at 10:07 PM

      Joe is probably larger now than Michael, after the murder and after dulling his resultant stress with Krispy Kremes, among other delicacies.

    • Hoya Loya
      04/08/2010 at 3:13 PM

      You’re probably right Bea — it wouldn’t be a make or break account, though Joe might have had unrealistic expectations. It could still be a factor. The pitch might also have been part of the bait for getting Robert to stay over — “hey we’ve got business to discuss and you’re so hard to get to with your busy schedule . . .”

  15. Bea
    04/07/2010 at 4:36 PM

    Anyone else roll their eyes when Joe said that both Victor’s and Dylan’s “taste” in men was (drum roll) “ME”. Please. Is Dylan married? Yes, to me. And Victor too. WHAT a narcissist – definitely did not sound like HE was trying to make it polyamorous – plain old bigamy it seems, all centered on Joe.

  16. AnnaZed
    04/07/2010 at 6:42 PM

    Jesus, I just want to say that Detective Norris and his command of the English language leave a bit to be desired. I did not know that there were still places where you could get a job above the level of car wash attendant or loading dock grunt if you spoke the way he does, much less as a metropolitan homicide detective (that subject/verb agreement thing is really a big bear for him apparently). It’s like Joe is being interrogated by Vinnie Barbarino, no wonder he became confident that he could get away with this, sheesh.

    • Clio
      04/07/2010 at 9:53 PM

      Yes, AZ, but recall that Milton was the detective with whom Mr. Price talked about interior decorating back at Swann: they must have swapped home improvement and makeover tips in the unrecorded portions of this interview.

    • Carolina
      04/08/2010 at 4:02 PM

      Maybe Norris was playing his “Columbo” card. Slow, muddled, disheveled and all too willing to let others think he’s not too clever. Alright, no doubt wishful thinking, but we can hope.

  17. beckler
    04/07/2010 at 7:09 PM

    Do you notice how factual and believable Joe gets when he talks about how he met Robert? It’s a marked difference from the rest of the transcript.

    • Bea
      04/07/2010 at 7:21 PM

      Agree, Beckler. As the detectives say, stop “assuming” (assumed he washed hands) and tell what happened THAT EVENING. Very dodgy in comparison – leaving things open ended.

      What I think is the biggest problem is that he’s got the intruder coming in (chimes) and then the murder happening within seconds to a couple of minutes later. That was a big mistake for his theory – AND it was one they will all trip on now because of the 11:43 mistake (really was 11:54 – and, incidentally, Victor repeats the time for Joe’s benefit and he was standing next to him). Consider that an intruder did go up and immediately stab Robert to death (for no apparent reason, passing by Dylan’s room) – for it to have happened within a few minutes of the chime, and Joe/Victor ran down immediately, who switched the knives? Who wiped the blood on the second knife and who punctured the W&M t-shirt.

      Huge mistake, Joe. You blew it.

      Interesting that the detectives were trying to get Joe to admit that he’d told Officer Diane Durham (?) that Robert had been stabbed outside. He doesn’t go for it, as I’m sure the others do too – realized that was a bad story. Or a WORSE story, as this one is very bad. Still can’t believe he left no time for the clean up, knife swapping etc. The more I read, the more convinced I am that he’ll be convicted.

      But I don’t think he was ever upstairs with Victor, and that’s why he is ambiguous about whether Victor was asleep or not, heard the chime or not, that Victor didn’t SAY anything to show he was miffed that Joe had the TV on – didn’t clearly say whether Victor was still watching the end of the show at 10:55.

      I can’t tell if Joe says that the knife may have been IN Robert’s chest – clearly another time he says ON but can anyone clear this up?

      As for the African American man in the alley – is he saying that the African American family (older couple) had given permission for another (presumably younger) person to live in the van in their driveway? All very Susan Smith to me. Ridiculous that an intruder would come in solely to kill and then not leave through an open door/open gate. Was there some kind of padlock on the gate which wouldn’t allow it to be opened from the inside?

      Wow. Just wow.

      • Clio
        04/07/2010 at 10:00 PM

        Agreed, Beckler. And, Joe almost tells us that he found Robert to be attractive, but then he quickly moves on. That bit part confirms, to me, that Joe had “a thing” for Robert.

  18. Robert
    04/07/2010 at 7:13 PM

    Price: “This is a lot more like TV.” I hope that in addition to the intruder and Blacks, Joe’s not now holding the Transgender community responsible.

    HOYALOYA
    Large law firms hire between 100 and 200 associate attorneys each year. After 8 years
    and depending on a number of factors, roughly 5 to 15 associates will be offered partnerships.

    Based upon discrimination suits as well as my anecdotal experience, probably not more than 2 or 3 of these will be minorities and rarely more than 1 Asian American is offerered such a partnership.

    If my memory serves me well, Robert was offered a junior partnership at Covington and Burling.

    Robert declined $250,000+ salary with relatively little responsibility for $75,000 general counsel position with a great deal of responsibility.

    Given Joseph’s competitiveness, narcissism and egoism, I could easily see he the former mentor being jealous of Robert his former protege.

    JOHNGRISHAM
    Even had Victor suspected that Robert was going to be subject to sex play by Joe and Dylan, I do not think he had foreknowledge of the murder. Thus,
    I agree with Bea that it was Victor who screamed.

    RK
    I have a theory about why there might have been a limited amount of bleeding, but it does not square with Joseph’s statements that there was alot.

    CJBIGGS
    The funny thing about characterizing the intruder story as “implausible” is that Joseph characterized
    it precisely that way when he told it to the police.

    HOYALOYA
    Given Joseph gave Robert his intro to W&M, was his student government mentor and so forth, I
    would tend to share your skepticism that Joe was randomly paired with Robert for an overnight stay.

    If as I suspect Joseph was smitten with Robert early on at W&M, I think that Robert may have been too naive to pick up cues at that time.

    There is a difference between being a homophile in an abstract sense and knowing one’s way around homosexuals in the concrete sense.

    BEA
    I tend to agree with you in many areas as stated.

    I believe that Victor screamed due to his surprise at seeing Robert at least bleeding if not dead.

    I believe that notwithstanding Victor’s experience in public relations, he got some of his lines wrong when reading that less Price script to the operator.

    Not to get into too much social psychology albeit an interest of mine, was Joseph one of those Gay kids who used to get beat up in the schoolyard?

    • Nelly
      04/08/2010 at 8:36 AM

      The GC position paid somewhere in the $120k-150k range.

    • Anonymous Friend
      04/10/2010 at 5:39 AM

      Please share your theory of why there wouldn’t be much blood. Thank you.

      • Robert
        04/14/2010 at 7:36 PM

        ANONYMOUSFRIEND
        I have gone on at length elsewhere about this alot of blood/not alot of blood controversy.

        For those unfamiliar with or unconvinced by my indubitable theories, here we go again.

        I am going to take a fantasy ride during which I will pretend if for only a moment that the most unlikely thing happened that night.

        Namely that it was not the real killer, the intruder, but one or more residents of the Swann Street house who was somehow remotely, very remotely, involved.

        Just for fun I am going to say, oh I don’t know,
        that maybe it was Joseph and Dylan with the possible assistance of Michael that the dirty deed was done in the mysterious death of Joseph, Victor and Dylan’s most dear and beloved Straight friend, Robert Wone.

        I have two basic scenarios: 1) Robert was alive
        when Joseph and Dylan thought Robert was dead or 2) Robert was dead when Joe Schmoe and Dylly dally thought Robert was alive.

        In both instances, key to the misperceptions is the effect of a paralytic which the coroner has theorized was employed in a sexual assault of Robert but which she did not find in Robert’s system if for no other reason that she did not test for that which she had no reason to test for until it was too late to test for that which had most probably already metabolized.

        Along with some others, I believe that Robert’s
        kitchen drink was laced with a date rape drug such as GMBH. Date rape drugs are generally designed for rapid entrances and and exits commonly referred to as “quickies.”

        Date rape drugs are not designed for extended BDSM sessions such as the one that many of us believe took place on that fateful evening.

        Thus, Joseph and Dylan would have found it necessary for an extended BDSM session to give Robert something stronger such as a paralytic. Perhaps ketamine, but who knows.

        Now, I am going to make the admittedly questionable presumption that precise drug dose measuring is not Joe or Dylan’s forte.

        Thus, Joseph and Dylan figured it out as they went along with somebody, Dylan or Michael
        at Joseph’s direction or Joseph himself injecting Robert with any number of needles until they got the desired BDSM ritual result.

        Under scenario 1a in which Robert Wone was alive when thought to be dead. Somebody — either Dylan or Michael — was directed by Joseph to administer an amount of paralytic intended to immobilize but not kill Robert.

        Midway through the Dylan and Joe BDSM
        “road show,” Robert suddenly began to awaken. Surprised and afraid, Dylan put a pillow over Robert’s face while awaiting further instructions from Joseph.

        “Say it ain’t so Joe” knows whatever may be the case with other rape victims, Robert is going to tell the truth, the Hole truth and nothing butT the truth about Dyl & him.

        What to do?

        Afraid to kill him just like that, Dylan or Michael at Joe’s direction hit Robert up with more paralytic to quiet him while Joe figured out what the logical next step should be.

        But then Joseph realizes that if Robert is found dead of a drug overdose in the home of recreational drug users, suspicion might point the finger at one of the innocent homOwners.

        So, after Robert has returned to blissful slumber, either Dylan “the culinary artist” or Joe the “Eagle Scout” surgically stabs Robert three times more or less in the chest with a knife from a set which Dylan keeps in his room just for special occasions such as births, confirmations, weddings and killings (but only of his BDSM submissive’s best Straight buds).

        If Robert was not on his “way to death’s door” due to the paralytic when he was stabbed, he would have been alive enough to swallow his own blood before the final blows but dead enough not to have bled that much.

        Cause of death: stabbing. Major suspects: Dylan or Joseph.

        Under scenario 1b, Dylan or Michael at Joe’s direction injected Robert Wone with enough paralytic to kill him before Dylan at Joseph’s direction or Joseph himself stabs Robert to death.

        If Robert was on his “way to death’s door” due to the paralytic but not yet there when he was stabbed, he would have been alive enough to swallow his own blood before the final blows but dead enough not to have bled that much.

        Cause of death: paralytic. Overkill: stabbing. Major suspects: Dylan or Michael.

        Under scenario 2a in which Robert Wone was dead when thought to be alive. Somebody — either Dylan or Michael — was directed by Joseph to administer an amount of paralytic intended to immobilize but not kill Robert.

        In the course of the Dylan and Joseph BDSM
        “road show,” without Joe’s direction Dylan puts a pillow over Robert’s face as part of the ritual.

        By the end of the Joseph and Dylan BDSM
        “road show,” Dylan and Joe expect Robert to awaken. But he fails to do so right on cue so Joe and Dylan presume Robert to be dead.

        But then Joseph realizes that if Robert is found dead of asphyxiation in the home of recreational BDSMers, suspicion might point the finger at one of the innocent homeOwners.

        What to do?

        With Robert already on the way to death’s door on account of asphyxiation, either Dylan the “culinary artist” at Joe’s direction or Joe the “Eagle Scout” himself surgically stabs Robert three times more or less in the chest.

        Cause of death: asphyxiation. Overkill: stabbing. Major suspect: Dylan.

        Under scenario 2b, Dylan or Michael at Joe’s direction injects Robert after asphyxiation with enough paralytic to kill him before Dylan at Joseph’s direction or Joseph himself stabs Robert to death.

        If Robert was on his “way to death’s door” due to the paralytic before he was stabbed, he would have been alive enough to swallow his own blood before the final blows but dead enough not to have bled that much.

        Cause of death: paralytic. Overkill: stabbing. Major suspects: Dylan or Michael.

        Something I have been meaning to mention for quite sometime, but have kept on forgetting to do so.

        My friends in both the law enforcement and intelligence communities confirm my own intuitions, suspicions and observations.

        Namely, that stabbing a person to death most often takes place in the context of a crime of passion. You know: anger, envy, lust, jealousy.

        I realize that we don’t have any such elements
        in this case, but I thought that I would just mention it anyway.

        You know, for hypothetical, theoretical, irrational, illogical, mystical, political,
        heretical, tautological reasons.

        As they say in the world of Radio Free ice cream, Krispy Kreme donuts and charbroiled steaks: “food for thought.”

  19. CDinDC
    04/07/2010 at 7:54 PM

    Convenient that Joe never set the alarm. Because if it had been set, the “intruder” would never have come into the house. Hope they confirm the alarm activity with the security company to see if he’s lying.

    And what’s with people not activating the alarm when the ARE in the house? THAT’S when I would want to be protected!

  20. CDinDC
    04/07/2010 at 8:46 PM

    Here’s another strange comment. Joe said he got blood on his middle finger. And that he washed it off. That he went to the bathroom 2 or 3 times.

    Joe claimed he was kneeling at Robert’s side the entire time Victor was on 911. After that the 1st responders arrived, followed by the police. So, when did Joe manage to get to the bathroom 3x? What was he doing in the bathroom so many times? Can the police corroborate that Joe excused himself 3x? Seems like another inconsistancy that could show Joe’s ability to lie about the circumstances.

    • Bea
      04/07/2010 at 8:58 PM

      CD, he’s saying he went at the precinct over the course of the night there. Or that’s how I read it.

      • CDinDC
        04/07/2010 at 9:10 PM

        Bea, I don’t see anything in that bit of conversation indicating where……even if it was at the precinct, is this the truth? I think any mistruth or stretching of the truth by Joe can show his ability to lie.

        • CDinDC
          04/07/2010 at 9:16 PM

          There is nothing in the transcript, indicating any kind of breaks were taken during the questioning. And it certainly would have been included if there had been.

          I think Joe is referring to being at home. And I think it may be a curious embellishment of the “facts.”

        • Bea
          04/07/2010 at 9:19 PM

          CD, on P. 61 he says he washed off the blood at the precinct when he went to the bathroom (that he noticed it at 7-11). Whether it’s true is another thing entirely – he is a liar through and through!

          • CDinDC
            04/07/2010 at 9:22 PM

            thanks Bea. I’ve only combed through part 1 so far.

            Joe’s blathering is so tedious to read, I can only deal with a bit at a time.

            He sounds like an idiot. Like, you know?

            I know some of these things may seem minor, but the devil is in the details.

            • Clio
              04/09/2010 at 10:37 PM

              The blood on his middle finger — Joe must have been worried about that detail in the Crown Vic with Folts. He washed it off three times … inadvertently, of course. Yet if Joe had tried to save Robert, wouldn’t there have been blood on more than his middle finger? And, why the middle finger, beyond the obvious symbolism?

  21. AnnaZed
    04/07/2010 at 8:49 PM

    Why does he put the chime and the “grunts” so close together in his narrative (he says that he didn’t even fall back asleep, it was minutes)? So, he is saying the the elves (elf) entered through the “open door” found a knife and completely silently (Joe says that he is not asleep) ventured upstairs and murdered an unresisting Robert then decamped in just minutes. That’s absurd.

    • Bea
      04/07/2010 at 9:00 PM

      AZ, I think this was Joe’s biggest mistake (see post above). Not only does it give the ‘intruder’ very little time to do the murdering, there would be no time for the clean up, the knife switching (or placing blood on the knife, etc. Will come out as a huge lie – and too, in what world would a total stranger walk straight up to a bedroom and stab someone three times and NOT be heard? Crazy.

      • CCBiggs
        04/07/2010 at 11:32 PM

        But doesn’t the fact that the 911 call actually took place LATER than Joe claimed actually help him on this point? He can say that he got the timing wrong and that if the call in fact took place later than 11:43 pm, then there must have been more time between the chimes and the grunts. This then allows some additional time for the murder to take place.

  22. CDinDC
    04/07/2010 at 8:54 PM

    Seems Joe’s conversation with Robert was different than Dylan’s recollection. Joe said they talked about Robert’s CLE class and visiting with the “pions” [sic] at work, Krispy Kreme donuts….. and Robert brought ice cream. You’d think Dylan would have remember at least SOME of that.

    • CDinDC
      04/07/2010 at 9:03 PM

      Now that I think of it, didn’t one of Robert’s relatives tell a story in his eulogy about Robert bringing ice cream to work because the air conditioner wasn’t working? Did that happen the night Robert was murdered??? Or did Joe recall this tidbit and weave it into his narrative about Robert’s visit?

      • Clio
        04/09/2010 at 10:28 PM

        Maybe, CD, but the Krispy Kreme bit is purely Culuket — Southern in origin and definitely lethal over time.

  23. former crackho
    04/07/2010 at 9:23 PM

    This boy was clearly still high or coming down off of something. This is supposed to be an intelligent attorney talking here? How friggin stupid. And personally, I would have never let it go on that long before I said “ok, nuff, wanna talk to my attorney, bye bye”.

    • CDinDC
      04/07/2010 at 9:24 PM

      Absolutely, FCH.

  24. des
    04/07/2010 at 9:25 PM

    “so i hear that, it doesn’t concern me but i wake up”.
    the way joe is talking is weird. it’s like he’s telling someone what he is going to say.
    not like he’s describing something that happened. i would think he would say instead “so i heard that, i didn’t concern my but i woke up.”
    does that make sense? and does that strike anyone else as odd?
    (i mean we know that it’s all bs for the most part anyway.)

    • Bea
      04/08/2010 at 12:02 PM

      I think this is classic “lie talk” – there are websites/experts who analyze how you can tell the lies from statements.

      It reminds me of a 4 year old boy, standing over a downed clothes line, telling me that a strange man had come off the sidewalk and broken the clothes line. The boy then said, “want to know how he did it? First, he got on the porch and jumped up to catch the line thinking he could slide like a pirate. . .” Of course the boy was four years old and the crime was breaking the clothes line.

    • AnnaZed
      04/09/2010 at 1:38 AM

      Oh yes des, Joe’s locution is very awkward all throughout this interview. That’s another lair’s “tell.”

  25. Clio
    04/07/2010 at 9:44 PM

    And, I had thought that they had talked about Lisa: was she one of the “pions” referred to by Mr. Price?

    Apparently, wine had been consumed by the trouple that evening. Was that before or after their crunches? And, why would anyone so worried about fitness mention Krispy Kremes, even in jest?

    What was on Spike TV after the conclusion of Project Runway? It must have been boring because Joe (and Victor?) quickly went to sleep and then, of course, the chimes allegedly occurred.

    I was struck by the improbable sight of Joe and Victor running down the stairs at the same time; this is on page 5. Now, those stairs are too narrow in that “sardine can” for two people to be running down the stairs simultaneously. The Devil really is in the details, Culuket!

    The possibility of Michael beating up Joe on Okinawa and then near Cape Cod actually put a smile on my face, if only for a brief moment. With Joe’s recent weight gain, though, I think that he could take Michael today.

    Finally, the idea that tragedy cannot happen to “people like us” is a bit Leona Helmsley to me.

    • Just Another Friend
      04/08/2010 at 10:05 AM

      I’m curious about the changing story about Lisa, also. I would guess that Joe & Robert did talk about Lisa that night, but at some point Joe decided that he didn’t want to drag Lisa into this whole situation, so he omitted that part of the conversation in later police questioning. Except now we know that Lisa was at the station in the morning with Michael … so she was brought into it after all.

      • Eagle
        04/08/2010 at 12:18 PM

        Typical Joe.

        • CDinDC
          04/08/2010 at 1:07 PM

          I wonder, did Joe ever exhibit signs of pathological lying? A pathological liar is not going to be able to stick to any facts. They will embellish and manipulate as they see fit.

          • AnnaZed
            04/09/2010 at 1:40 AM

            Well, he’s certainly exhibiting them now.

    • Just Another Friend
      04/08/2010 at 1:42 PM

      Actually, I’ve gone back to the arrest warrant for Dylan and seen that Dylan was the one that mentioned that they talked about Lisa. I can’t remember if we’ve also seen that Joe said that?

      Can’t wait to see the transcript from Dylan’s questioning.

  26. former crackho
    04/07/2010 at 9:50 PM

    I think Joe got off on being the good “bad” boy. He reminds me of the type who thought he could get away with anything and was smarter than anyone else, and as long as he gave the appearance that he was “people like us”, no one would ever suspect that he had less than the perfect life. Jail is particularly difficult for his kind. Sigh.

    • Clio
      04/07/2010 at 10:59 PM

      A lavender Eddie Haskell with a touch of Ted Bundy: repulsive!

  27. Craig
    04/07/2010 at 10:38 PM

    I was stymied at page 2. From Project Runway to Spike TV still mystifies me. Tim Gunn then flip to… Ultimate Fighting?

    I’m curious what was on at 11pm but Spike won’t release their old air schedules without a subpoena.

    • former crackho
      04/08/2010 at 10:19 AM

      http://www.tvtango.com/listings?filters%5Bdate%5D%5Bmonth%5D=8&filters%5Bdate%5D%5Bday%5D=2&filters%5Bdate%5D%5Byear%5D=2006&commit.x=16&commit.y=13

      According to the above website, at 10 pm on August 2, 2006, Spike aired an episode of “Blade: The Series”.

      • former crackho
        04/08/2010 at 10:29 AM

        Interestingly, a synopsis of this particular episode of “Blade” from the IMDB talks of a stabbing (yes, I have too much time on my hands today):

        “Blade and Vanessa have made it out of Germany and are on their way into Paris. It’s not without strife, however, as Blade has handcuffed Vanessa to her seat and promised to shut her up if she tries to scream. Still, Vanessa refuses to talk about Dr Vonner or what he did to her baby. When Vanessa says that she needs to use the restroom, Blade escorts her down the hall, but they are attacked by two snarling vampires. Realizing that Blade is protecting her, Vanessa helps by stabbing one of the vampires with Blade’s silver knife. The vampire immediately turns into ash. Now willing to talk about Vonner, Vanessa says that he simply offered her money for being a surrogate mother for a childless couple. She knows nothing more.”

      • former crackho
        04/08/2010 at 10:32 AM

        Ooops. – sorry Craig, you said 11 pm – Blade was on at 10 – lets see if we can find anything for 11:00 pm….

        • TK
          04/08/2010 at 10:39 AM

          Darn, I was going to point out that Blade had a handsome Asian sidekick (his tech geek) and there was always some gay-subtext banter between them. Now I guess it’s irrelevant. 🙁

          • Hoya Loya
            04/12/2010 at 2:22 PM

            According to an old 2006 press release, Blade episodes premiered Wednesdays at 10 and then encored immediately after at 11. “Delivery” did indeed air on August 2. It appears to be the only episode in which the Asian character Shen did not appear.

    • AnnaZed
      04/09/2010 at 1:43 AM

      Well let’s hope that Glenn has subpoenaed their asses, because I want to know!

    • Nelly N. Drew
      04/09/2010 at 3:14 AM

      No mystery there. You watch a fabulous fashion show then flip around to see what’s on and the sight of a couple of hot and sexy cage fighters grabs your attention. Two ends of the TV spectrum but both very gay in their own way.

      The thing on page two that jumps out at me is the reference to Wone taking a shower. I think the trio planted the idea of Robert showering before bed to cover up the fact that his body had been thoroughly washed clean of blood and DNA evidence.

      There was so little time for all the necessary events to take place. I suspect they showed him to his room where he put on his mouth guard and went directly to bed. I think he was ambushed in the dark by Dylan Ward who was high on drugs. I think he smothered then injected Wone and dragged him off to the tub to be stabbed, ejaculated, then rinsed cleaned and returned to the bed where he finally died.

      I think Dylan Ward went outside to use the garden hose to rinse blood off the real weapon, some towels and possibly his clothes. That made the chime sound which summoned the other two from the third floor. I think Zaborsky screamed in horror at the sight of Wone and from that moment on Price took full charge of the crime scene, the clean-up and the alibi.

      That’s what I think.

      • Bea
        04/09/2010 at 3:50 AM

        Interesting theory – I don’t see Joe giving up his life and his liberty for his “dom”. If he’s “only” guilty of the current charges, what gives? Even if Joe is capable of loving Dyl that much, wouldn’t Victor have a desire to save his hide AND get rid of the ‘third’ who took so much of Joe’s time and attention? He may have grown to like Dylan, but enough to serve serious jail time to keep him in their lives? Not saying you’re wrong, just playing devil’s advocate.

  28. Clio
    04/07/2010 at 10:52 PM

    In part 2, the details get even more creepy. Dyl, to Joe, was apparently sleeping without his pajamas, and he thus had nothing under his bathrobe when police arrived. Yikes! The burnt steak dinner and the wine — using the grill on that hot and steamy night — what were they thinking? Dyl could not hear anything because of the hum of the AC: are you kidding me!

    Joe relates something about a plumber who jumped the gate? Huh? Joe appreciating the diversity of his neighborhood, but then mentioning “Southeast” and walking home unafraid? What? Then, mentioning neighbors, but not blaming them? Sigh! And, why was big-time journalist Lisa with small-time “student” Michael at the station?

    • former crackho
      04/08/2010 at 10:33 AM

      Joe is a racist pig.

  29. CCBiggs
    04/08/2010 at 12:10 AM

    Why did Victor ask the 911 operator what time it was? Victor just learned that there’s a dead guy in his house. Why is he worried about what time it is? Also, aren’t there plenty of clocks/watches in the house? Why does he need to hear it from the 911 operator?

    • AnnaZed
      04/08/2010 at 12:53 AM

      I know, that is such an odd thing to do.

      Something about the time was really bugging Joe, but he screwed up royally on the time thing anyway. He tells the police that he hears the chime (that it wakes him) and that the grunts are just moments later. He claims that he and Victor immediately rush downstairs and call 911. The Emergenct medical services and the MPD arrive minutes later, yet the EMTs find that Robert is cold and has been “dead for some time” and the men are freshly showered. Opps Joe … continuity problems there my man.

      • CDinDC
        04/08/2010 at 6:33 PM

        AnnaZ,
        Joe contradicts himself by saying Robert’s eyes were rolled back, but also says that Robert was clutching his [own] thumb tightly. “Clutching his thumb” makes it sound like he was alive.

    • Craig
      04/08/2010 at 10:00 AM

      CCB: If I recall correctly, Price is overheard on the 911 call prompting Zaborsky to ask the time.

      • Bea
        04/08/2010 at 11:53 AM

        Yes, he is. So Joe began the debacle and concluded the debacle. Must have been that Joe was time-stamping so he could do the math backward – – only he screwed up and remembered 11:43, not 11:54. And since they ALL remembered the WRONG time, it absolutely proves they concocted a STORY.

        • AnnaZed
          04/08/2010 at 12:01 PM

          Yes, that one thing, a mistake in the first place, ripples through all of their versions of events. It’s very telling.

  30. Robert
    04/08/2010 at 2:05 AM

    As soon as I heard about the murder, my thoughts ran to Joseph’s unrequited love for Robert. And all of my subsequent theories and scenarios proceeded from that premise.

    Since then I have focussed on the pscyhodynamics of the participants’ relationships and generally left the mechanics to others more expert, experienced and knowledgable in those areas than myself.

    Some have suggested that the crime was carefully planned in advance while others have said that it was too sloppy to have been so thought out.

    Up until now, I was one of those who thought that
    Joseph sought to requite his love through a date rape drug and that most of what followed was merely or mostly happenstance.

    This is not to say that once the date rape drug was administered that there was no planning regarding the BDSM such as paralyzing and fettering along with the use of dildos and electrostimulation.

    Nor would I say that the stabbing was accidental though I might disagree with others about the sequence of events or identity of the stabber.

    As most of you know, I also have my theories about Joseph and Dylan thinking that Robert was dead when he was alive or alive when he was dead.

    But I thought Victor came home only to discover much to his surprise that Robert was visiting.

    I thought Sarah left the house just because she felt like visiting her friends Tom and John not unlike Robert was visiting with Joseph.

    I thought Michael was out getting high somewhere
    as usual, but this was before I learned that he was a phlebotomy student who missed his first class.

    I thought that Joe and Dylan’s sex play with Robert
    got out of hand for any number of reasons such as drug intoxication, enhanced sexual libido or both.

    I thought that Robert’s death was accidental due to a drug overdose, that the death was covered up by stabbing and that the rest proceeded from there.

    But supposedly there’s no such thing as a “perfect
    crime.” If that is true then one can plan a crime and make telling mistakes along the way.

    Is it possible that Joseph is so Machiavellian and such a Svengali that he planned all of this or much of this out in advance, recruited all the players, scripted them and just did a bad j0b of it?

    In that case he could have had: the motive — love, sex and rock and roll; the means — drugs and stabbing; the opportunity — Robert’s visit.

    In that case, he could have arranged for Victor to come home actually knowing about Robert’s visit in the first place but claiming ignorance in the second place and sent upstairs in fact or not.

    In that case, he could have given friend Robert the date rape drug with Dylan already knowing BDSM activities were to follow and the nature of them including the administration of a paralytic.

    In that case, he could have had Dylan take one knife from his culinary set and another from the kitchen with the intent to stab Robert with one, replace it with the other and wipe a cloth on it.

    In that case, he could have had Dylan place the body in an unusal position echoing the macabre Shakespeare cartoon in the New Yorker magazine.

    In that case, he could have asked Michael to break into the house on a prior occasion and let him in on this one, actually triggering the chimes or not.

    In that case, Sarah could have been alibied out of the house all the while knowing she would be return in order to assist with the clean up.

    In that case, Michael could have been alibied out of the house all the while knowing he would be called upon to dispose of incriminating items.

    In that case, he could have deliberately made some
    incomplete calls from Robert’s Blackberry to Kathy in order to confuse the timeline.

    In that case, he could have had Robert’s bloody body washed and dressed, guest room partially cleaned of blood and the participants wash.

    In that case, he could have arranged for Sarah and Michael to be gone upon the arrival of the police and told them both what to say if anything.

    In that case, he could have had Victor scream, telephone 911 and introduce the intruder story to which Dyl, Vic and Joe would subsequently swear.

    In that case, he would have erred by having the others and he acting too cool, calm and collected upon the arrival of the EMS, but not cool enough when they were being interrogated by the police.

    In that case, he would have erred in not wiping clean his computer of BDSM activities, retaining Asian pornography and soliciting Asian dancers.

    He would not have erred in anticipating mistakes by DCMPD or inconclusiveness of the coroner, because he would’ve thought he was smarter.

    He might not have thought about the appearance given by his brunching and holding court at the law firm or thought that he would lose his job

    Why would Joseph do it? Ego. Why would Victor go along with it? Love. Why would Dylan participate? Dependence.

    Why would Sarah get involved? Loneliness. Why would Michael get connected? Drug Addiction.

    I don’t know which would be worse, Robert’s being killed with malice aforethought or because a chain of unstoppable events was accidentally set off.

  31. Robert
    04/08/2010 at 3:46 AM

    CCBIGGS
    I think that ANNAZED has assessed the situation as well as anyBody.

    I think that Joe the “control freak,” with all of his smarts, was trying to establish the time line.

    Or maybe Dylan the “neat freak” was obsessing over the dead body messing up the house.

    Or perhaps Victor the “relationship freak” wanted to know if it was time for milk.

    Or for sure Michael the “drug freak” could have measured the time by the half-life of the paralytic.

    At the very least, one of the trio could have looked at Robert’s watch which remained unstolen in the guest room.

    Though what they really should have done was ask the intruder for the “time of day” on his way out.

  32. Clio
    04/08/2010 at 8:49 AM

    Joe believes in God, who probably is not pleased with both of the Price Sisters right now. Confession of sins comes before forgiveness, and Culuket still, through all of this bluster and BS, did not confess that morning and has not confessed to this day. Accordingly, hell, not Miami, may be in the former Arent Fox partner’s long-term future. And, it is a hell of his own making.

  33. Robert
    04/08/2010 at 9:25 AM

    NELLY
    The position was posted between $75,000 to $115,00. My understanding is that Robert was hired to start at $75,000.

    • SheKnowsSomething
      04/08/2010 at 10:11 AM

      Preposterous. Where did you see that posting?

      • David
        04/08/2010 at 10:55 AM

        I have to agree with SKS. Just doesn’t wash as a competitve rate for a GC for a large non-profit such as RFA in 2006. And these were still the go-g0 years (mercedes, mercedes, mercedes) before the crash in 2008.

        David

  34. Robert
    04/08/2010 at 10:22 AM

    SHEKNOWSSOMETHING

    I googled the job posting by RFA. If there was a later revision or update, I did not see it. None of which matters for my purposes.

    The point which I was trying to make is that Robert would have earned a lot more had he accepted the partnership at Covington and Burling, but he chose not to do so.

    Which is just another example of his fine and upstanding character as demonstrated by his commitment to public service.

    If you disagree with that, it is your right to do so.

    • Just Another Friend
      04/08/2010 at 11:21 AM

      Just when, exactly, do you claim that Robert was “offered” a partnership? Covington is very consistent in making its partnership elections on October 1 of each year. Are you saying that Robert was elected to partnership on Oct. 1, 2005, and declined then? That would be incredibly surprising, as he would have just completed his 6th year of practice at that point.

    • SheKnowsSomething
      04/08/2010 at 11:42 AM

      I respectfully disagree. The GC’s Admin Assistant probably made more than $75K pre annum.

    • Friend of Rob
      04/08/2010 at 11:45 AM

      Rob’s long-term goal was politics (i.e., behind-the-scene chief of staff type politics) and taking a junior partner position at Covington in real estate was probably inferior to RFA to achieving that goal.

  35. Spike
    04/08/2010 at 11:26 AM

    This morning I read the transcript of the second interview. Between the first and second, Joe seems to have morphed into something of a Valley girl with the “whatevers” and “you knows.” So Dylan went to let him in and whatever.

    There are a few oddities that leapt out at me while reading it. Most of them just minor things of little importance in the scheme of things, but maybe not.

    At one point Joe tells the detective he has been “dating” Victor for seven years. That seems a very odd description of a relationship with one’s partner. Also, maybe it’s me, but why can’t he remember if Victor attended Robert’s wedding with him?

    When he describes Dylan first coming out of his room amidst the commotion of the murder, Joe mentions him putting on a robe. And oddly, says, “he has no fucking clothes.” Isn’t that weird? Don’t a lot of people sleep nude? I would just assume that nudity wouldn’t be that unusual in a home with a three-way relationship. Was Joe trying to establish something? Like, don’t look for Dylan’s bloody clothes because he was naked.

    To me, there are two things in this transcript that strike me as very important. Joe just volunteers the following after going over the timeline again, with no prompting:

    “There was no time after the cops got there that there would have been any chance to us to get together our story or anything, you know.”

    This is very bad script writing. You lead the audience to that conclusion, making them think they got there on their own. You don’t TELL the audience that. I think that’s a huge blunder.

    Also, when he’s going on about the improbability of the narrative yarn he’s spun, Joe actually says, out loud: “I think you have to buy this stuff because, you know, there was somebody in there.”

    Buy this stuff? Why are you selling this stuff, Joe? I just don’t believe this is the way innocent people frame things.

    And finally, psychic Joe, thinking about Dylan after being separated from him during the interrogation: “I don’t know if he’s being told what his rights are, but I suspect not.”

    Once again, revealing his hand.

    • AnnaZed
      04/08/2010 at 11:41 AM

      Excellent points all. Ah Joe, the devil is in the details my friend, don’t forget that.

      “Buy this stuff” is like an amateur’s tell in poker. even the really dumb cop should have pinged 10 on that bizarre locution. “Buy” (?) What are you selling Joe?

      Now Spike, if you could only tell us what you were broadcasting that night at 10pm.

      • Spike
        04/08/2010 at 11:44 AM

        I am not able to do that Anna. Client confidentiality and all.

  36. Robert
    04/08/2010 at 12:05 PM

    JUSTANOTHERFRIEND/NELLY/DAVID
    SHEKNOWSSOMETHING
    If I was under a misimpression about Robert’s being offered a partnership and the salary offered for his being General Counsel at Radio Free Asia, I plead guilty. As my father used to say, there is no point in arguing a matter of fact. If you have the facts, you have the facts, so be it.

    SPIKE
    I agree with you about the bad scripting. It seems lame that Joseph would talk about getting or not getting their story together and characterizing as “stuff” the story they were selling.

    And how would Joe know about whether or not
    Dylan had been read his rights? Was it wishful thinking on his part that Dylan might not have been read his rights?

    • Just Another Friend
      04/08/2010 at 12:13 PM

      Just to clarify, I’m not trying to say that Robert was or wasn’t on the partnership track at C&B … I don’t have any info about that. I’d bet that HoyaLoya’s right that the hours were better at RFA, though!

  37. DCTim
    04/08/2010 at 12:20 PM

    After finally reading thru both transcripts, for some reason I’m now left with a nagging feeling that maybe one of those three didn’t do it…but then there was maybe another person (or two?) in the house that evening.

    Even through all Joe’s rambling, somehow I did get the conviction that “he” and “we” didn’t do this… This might change for me after I read Dylan’s and Victor’s statements.

    That’s certainly not meant to suggest they don’t know who did – I believe they do know – and for that, they’re guilty of the charges being brought against them.

    But if it was Michael, I can’t believe he’d have the balls to show up outside VCB early the next morning, only hours after the crime. Ditto Sara at Cosi.

    But then, that explanation creates lots of other questions…like, why?

    • David
      04/08/2010 at 1:02 PM

      DCTim,

      I agree with you that one can get the impression that they did not do it themselves. I had that impression when I read first read the transcripts. The story, despite what I consider to be not major inconsistencies, holds up remarkably well. But after a few days, when you really apply the logic, reason and the timeline to the statements, things do not hold up.

      So then I go back to the idea that most of the story they told that night was true, say even 90 percent is factually correct, which means they wouldn’t have any problem re-counting it. They only had to make up 10 percent. This wouldn’t be difficult for these three smart men to re-tell without stumbling. That’s where my thinking is at this point.

      David

      • CDinDC
        04/08/2010 at 1:13 PM

        I don’t think anyone could have murdered Robert alone. More than one person had to have participated in the final minutes of Robert’s life.

        Even after Robert’s death, I doubt any of them could have carried Robert through the house alone.

        Whether Michael was involved or not, I believe Joe (and possibly) Dylan were in the same room with Robert when he died. And Joe probably wielded the stab wounds.

    • AnnaZed
      04/09/2010 at 2:04 AM

      DCTim, I have had these thoughts as well, but why (why?) would any of them go to the mat for Michael or for some Craig’s list trick (even if they were dealing drugs) why?

  38. Craig
    04/08/2010 at 12:53 PM

    Appropos of nothing, or maybe something… Price on several occasions that evening was pointing to “evidence” that would either clear him/them or buttress their story:

    The 1509 phone records will prove the time of the 911 call. The 911 dispatcher records will prove the same. Fingerprints on doorknobs will prove an intruder came in. Their failure to lock the back door religiously (and set an alarm) can prove the intruder had ready access. Price’s emails and BBerry calendar would prove.. not sure what.

    And lastly, “You’ll find somebody that we don’t know. You’ll find some person …on that knife handle, you know–”

    He sounded very certain the MPD was going to find ‘things’ that would prove the housemates’ innocence. Are those the typical protestations of a man telling the truth? I have no idea…

  39. CDinDC
    04/08/2010 at 1:34 PM

    One of the things that strikes me about Joe’s description of the noises he heard (yelling/grunts) is that these are probably the sounds Robert actually made when being stabbed. If he was incapacitated by ketamine he would have been verbal, but not able to really enunciate anything. His language would have been rather gutteral, but he would have been able to vocalize.

    Joe’s description gives me chills.

    • Just Another Friend
      04/08/2010 at 1:46 PM

      And that’s exactly what Victor heard, sometime after he heard the door chime as someone stepped outside to take the knife out of the house for disposal. And those grunts made Victor get out of bed and run downstairs to see what was happening. And when he got there, he screamed at what he saw … while Maureen Bunyan was doing the news (before 11:30). And then he was told “the story.” And then, 20+ minutes later, he made the 911 call.

      • Just Another Friend
        04/08/2010 at 1:58 PM

        Wait, what I said doesn’t make any sense… they couldn’t take the knife out for disposal *before* the stabbing… Could those noises have come when he was being moved/showered/dressed? Or did the door chime because a 4th person came into the house before the stabbing happened?

        • AnnaZed
          04/09/2010 at 2:11 AM

          Whatever the sequence I think that Victor was compelled to go downstairs by something that he heard the others doing and that by then Robert was already dead. Then Ma’am could not suppress a scream (that was before the news was over at 11:25) recall that the EMTs found Robert cold and “dead for some time” by the time they got there.

          • Bea
            04/09/2010 at 2:29 AM

            Agree (with the exception that the broadcast was over at 11:35 according to someone). Maybe the only truthful statement Joe made (after the meaningless stuff was done) was that Victor was hysterical – but he didn’t tell him to make the call until after Victor had the story down pat.

  40. Gama
    04/08/2010 at 1:44 PM

    Nobody’s mentioned that Joe says on p. 10 of the second transcript that Robert moaned when he put the towel on him. Joe is saying that Robert was still alive only moments before the EMTs got there, but they said Robert appeared to have been dead a long time when they arrived. And does it also suggest that Joe knew Robert was alive when he was stabbed?

    • CDinDC
      04/08/2010 at 6:38 PM

      That’s right, Gama. As well, as Robert clutching his [own] thumb.

      But he also said Robert’s eyes were rolled back in his head.

      Which is it big boy?

    • AnnaZed
      04/15/2010 at 11:39 PM

      Lord I hope that Glenn and company can just LAY THIS STUFF OUT, get their ducks in a row as it were. Joe has Robert alive in one version, at the back door when he talks to officer Durham, eyes rolling back in another ~ he is lying. The jury only needs to understand that one central fact, that’s it.

  41. DCTim
    04/08/2010 at 1:44 PM

    Those are the kind of statements that have me wondering…would a guilty man encourage such scrutiny, and agree to take a lie detector test shortly after the crime?

    I think there’s still a big piece missing here, something that we’re all not yet privy to.

    Re: the blood in the room. Where is it indicated (other than from Joe’s statements) how much was found in and around the bed? I’m sure I read that somewhere, but can’t recall now.

    Eds?

    • Just Another Friend
      04/08/2010 at 1:51 PM

      The affidavit in support of the arrest warrant for Dylan describes the scene. It’s the top item here:
      http://whomurderedrobertwone.com/legal-documents/

      • David
        04/08/2010 at 2:09 PM

        DCTim,

        Also remember that while Joe was totally willing to take a lie detector test, he didn’t take it when he pitched a fit because he couldn’t see Dylan.

        He gets to act like he was cooperating but doesn’t follow through with actions. That smells fishy to me.

        David

        • DCTim
          04/08/2010 at 2:19 PM

          True David, but he didn’t know when he agreed to the test that he wouldn’t be able to see Dylan and Victor. That came later.

          The way I read it, Norris wasn’t able to get his guy at the FBI; that’s why the test wasn’t administered.

          And didn’t Dylan also take (and presumably pass) a test? Those things are not easy to fake, except in the movies.

          There’s def more here than meets the eye…

          • David
            04/08/2010 at 2:30 PM

            DCTim,

            Yes, not be able to see Dylan and Victor came later but, my point is that he may have used that (feigned anger) as the excuse as to why he didn’t take the polygraph.

            Yes, Dylan did take the polygraph, but why is it presumed that he passed? No word about any results have been released publicly.

            David

            • Bea
              04/08/2010 at 2:37 PM

              I presume Dylan failed – why else would the defense be making a fuss that it NOT be admitted? Failed.

              As for Joe – being a similar kind of lawyer myself – OF COURSE he agrees to take one. He can (and did) stop it from happening, and worse case scenario he takes it and fails, and it’s excluded just like Dylan’s was. BUT Dylan’s failure, though not admissible, tells the cops they are certainly looking in the right direction (though not definitive).

          • Carolina
            04/08/2010 at 7:19 PM

            Isn’t it also possible that Joe was bluffing, agreeing to the polygraph but with no intention of following through? All he would need is the slightest excuse and he could put on his best indignant act and retract his consent.

            • AnnaZed
              04/08/2010 at 7:21 PM

              Yes Carolina, in fact from the transcript it seems that that is pretty much exactly what he did do.

        • AnnaZed
          04/08/2010 at 2:32 PM

          If someone was murdered in my house I wouldn’t submit to a lie detector test even if the alternative was being lined-up and shot. Those things can be very screwy. Of course, even if innocent I wouldn’t have talked to those police officers either.

          just sayin’

          • former crackho
            04/08/2010 at 5:31 PM

            I agree 100% percent! I will never take a lie detector or submit to that kind of questioning if I know I’m innocent. I’d simply say “arrest me, or let me go”.

    • Just Another Friend
      04/08/2010 at 2:18 PM

      DCTim, that missing piece may help explain where the murder weapon is, and who took it from the house before the police arrived.

  42. CDinDC
    04/08/2010 at 1:51 PM

    Joe says: “At some point in this process of me telling Victor to go upstairs and yelling and holding onto Robert, Dylan came out of his room and it looked like he was putting on his robe. It looked like he had no fucking clothes [on]. ‘What happened?'”

    Joe sounds doubtful about Dylan here.

    Is it unusual for Dylan to sleep nude?

    • CJ Biggs
      04/08/2010 at 2:11 PM

      I think that’s an error in the transcript. Previously it was reported that Joe said Dylan “looked like he had no fucking CLUE what happened.”

    • Craig
      04/08/2010 at 2:16 PM

      CD: “At some point in this process…”

      OK, maybe I’m too far into the weeds but what kind of word is “process?” A little too clinical I think to describe the events of a “best friend” who was just slain in your home moments after he arrived.

      I’m glad we have a couple thousand sets of eyes on these docs.

      • AnnaZed
        04/15/2010 at 11:43 PM

        Craig, I know “…at some point in this process…” is very odd locution. Joe keeps talking in this odd strained syntax, like stage directions.

  43. Fascinating
    04/08/2010 at 2:34 PM

    I’m torn after reading the two transcripts … I cannot hear inflection or see Joe’s face (obviously) but his description of the evening is very …. logical.

    To me, though, there is a key element missing from the story. Unfortunately, I cannot figure out what’s missing.

    It’s possible all the various details have truth in them. I thought it was curious that in the 2nd transcript Joe goes into great detail about the shower backing up … hmmmm. Was that a few nights before Robert’s murder, or was that Joe covering his a$$ because the three of them utilized the shower?

    I also find it interesting that he described dinner and the grill the night before … and the 2/3 of the wine bottle detail. I don’t know what to make of that.

    It’s curious that he was so cooperative, even coming into the room a second time for a “10 minute” follow-up interview. (Frankly, if I were “innocent” and the police officers suggested I was responsible for the murder, I would have stopped talking IMMEDIATELY!!) But Joe just goes on and on and on …. curious.

    My theories as to what really happened that night keep changing. At some point I thought maybe brother Michael was involved, but I’m not so sure. I’d forgotten that he was waiting for Joe outside and that Joe called him on his cell. I thought at some point, too, that the reason the threesome is keeping together at this point is because there’s some truth to the “intruder” story — but they’re leaving out an important element because it might embarrass or implicate them (i.e. drugs? drug dealer? internet trick?)

    Joe is obviously fearless, though. 12 hours of police and questioning … Jeez, I woulda gotten a lawyer ASAP!

    • AnnaZed
      04/08/2010 at 2:37 PM

      Fearless or stark staring mad (also a long term drug and alcohol abuser), you pick.

      • former crackho
        04/08/2010 at 5:33 PM

        Or so cracked out on meth, the time just flew on by…

    • Bea
      04/08/2010 at 2:48 PM

      Joe realizes that his story makes no sense on its face, so he thinks he can “sell it” because he can sell anything! He thinks his boys are good to go, though he’s more concerned about Dylan in that Victor doesn’t know ALL of what happened and what he says will be what happened MINUS the time delay and story concocting. Despite Ma’am’s obvious distress (I think the hysterical fit description was true – AND that Joe sent him upstairs to use the phone to get him out of there) the concern Joe has is that DopedDylan doesn’t mess up. “Where’s Dylan?” “Are you going to charge him?” “Does he know his rights?” Joe knows there is a strong possibility that Dylan, co-murderer, could crack AND take Joe with him.

      For a while I thought that Joe’s primary concern being focused on Dylan was because he ‘looovved’ him more than Victor. That may be true, but true to form, he’s covering his own ass. I am more convinced by this that Victor was/is not an active murderer (though a conspirator and justice-obstructor – my guess is most of the tampering re the knives was done without his knowledge, yet he likely did some menially cleaning and carting).

      • Bea
        04/08/2010 at 2:50 PM

        One more thing. Your good friend is murdered in cold blood in your home. Whose reaction is what one would expect? Perhaps Joe and Dylan were too drugged to have an emotional response . . .

      • AnnaZed
        04/09/2010 at 2:18 AM

        I don’t think Joe loves anyone, including himself.

  44. Fascinating
    04/08/2010 at 2:46 PM

    Okay, two more things I noticed:

    1. Love, love, loved the police officer (“bad cop”) who told Joe that house robbers have a certain way of robbing and whoever “broke into” his house did not behave that way. That there were no footprints on the other side of the fence. And that no one heard footsteps in the house (i.e. a “robber” running out the back door).

    2. I found it interesting that, in the second interview, Joe was already rationalizing why a robber would come up to the second floor — the big TV.

    Oy!

    • Bea
      04/08/2010 at 2:52 PM

      Okay, this is tacky, but my favorite line was when Joe responded that Dylan “is happily married” – to Joe – and the cop says “that’s why you’re upstairs with Victor.”

      • David
        04/08/2010 at 3:50 PM

        Bea,

        I don’t think it is tacky AT ALL to bring that up. The cop was honeing in on the relationship, which IMHO, could hold more keys than we think. Even if none of us have been in a three-way polyamorous relationship, I suspect many people have had roommate situations where three people are involved. There is always the odd man out, 2 against 1 type of instablity that you don’t get in one-one relationship dynamics. Those type of dynamics combined with drug use could have been toxic that evening. I only wish that the officer had pursued this line of questioning even further.

        David

        • CDinDC
          04/08/2010 at 5:26 PM

          agree 100000%, David.

          And, Joe even painted Victor be a Mr. Cranky Pants that night.

          • Bea
            04/08/2010 at 5:40 PM

            Makes me wonder WHEN Victor was expected to arrive before catching that earlier plane. Did they ‘know’ Victor would NOT be down with the plan but couldn’t stop themselves and hoped he’d sleep through it (maybe moving the body)? I find myself going back to the thought that the original moving-the-body scheme was blown when Victor heard something and came downstairs and “got hysterical”. Only he was alone until he got there.

      • CJ Biggs
        04/08/2010 at 3:51 PM

        I guess Joe thinks he can be married to two people at the same time. Gays just won the right to marry in DC, but why stop with only one spouse!

  45. Robert
    04/08/2010 at 4:44 PM

    DAVID
    I think you make a good point about only 10% of the story needing to be false in order for one or more of the characters to be 100% guilty.

    CDINDC
    I agree with you that with all that had to be done from the drugging, the stabbing, the cleaning and the disposing — not to mention the body moving — more than one person had to be involved in this.

    CRAIG
    Sounds like Joseph was paying attention to a lot of little details while he was missing the main event. Namely, the gruesome murder of his friend.

    DCTIM
    I won’t claim to be an expert on polygraphs. But between my admittedly limited experience in a prosecutor’s office and discussions with my friends in the intelligence community, such tests are not considered to be 100% accurate either way.

    For what it’s worth, I do know Gay people in the defense department and the intelligence community who have passed tests.

  46. CJ Biggs
    04/08/2010 at 5:00 PM

    Did Joe (or the others) take the lie detector test? If not, did Joe ever explain his stunning reversal on this issue after agreeing on the record to do so?

  47. des
    04/08/2010 at 5:06 PM

    did anyone else mention that on page 50 joe says that they were sitting in the living room during the 911 call?

  48. des
    04/08/2010 at 5:08 PM

    sorry, just reread that and i’m mistaken….

  49. Robert
    04/08/2010 at 5:48 PM

    FASCINATING

    I cannot argue aboout the intruder story anymore.
    Others may believe it, I never have and I don’t.

    Joseph is a controlling, egotistical narcissist. As such he does not care as much as might you or I about what he says or to whom. Why?

    Because Joseph thinks he’s smarter than everyone else. And if you don’t believe me, just ask him. Hopefully, he outsmarted himself this time.

    If my memory serves me well, the police first caught wind of Joseph’s BDSM proclivities by looking at his computer — his office PC!

    Inspections of the Swann swingers home has turned up sex toys in Dylan’s room, pornography in Joseph’s room and I believe even some drug evidence though I could be wrong about that.

    By now police, prosecutors, the DC, US and world Gay communities and anybody else who reads the news on or off line — not to mention this blog — know all about the Swann Street swingers.

    This includes the family business of sex, drugs and rock and roll. Such as Joseph’s proclvities; Dylan’s fetishes; Victor’s heartbreaks; Joseph, Dylan and Victor’s triad relationship; Michael’s drug abusing present and criminal past and on and on it goes.

    And just when Joseph wanted to keep things hush, hush and on the up and up what does he do?

    “Say It Ain’t So” Joe goes to a DC strip club, gets himself stinking drunk and offers one of the go-go boys, an Asian, lots of cash to go home with him!

    When dancing boy learns that Joseph is other than
    single, he rejects Joe’s kind, dear offer and wastes no time in kindly informing the editors of this blog about Joseph’s Kiss-and-Tell overture.

    Once again Joseph has made contact but with no lift off. Too bad for Joseph. Rebuffed again): And by another Asian to boot. So now it’s one Straight Asian down and one Gay Asian to go-go.

    BEA
    I tend to agree with you on all points. And thanks for the quote. It’s precious. It must make Victor feel good to know that he is so loved by Joe:)

    In the beginning, I thought that Joe loved Victor at least in a marital sort of way. I never thought that Joe loved Dylan except possibly in a boy-toy way.

    Given our agreement that Victor played second fiddle in this fiasco, why is he still keeping mum?

    Is Victor not aware that his dying love for Joseph is not reciprocal? I mean, even if he did not know it before, doesn’t he read the news? Our blog?

  50. CDinDC
    04/08/2010 at 5:49 PM

    Can someone tell me what the hell Joe is talking about here (see below)? Water flowing through a tube? Joe randomly mentions that “he fixed” the bathroom. And who is “he?”

    And is Joe normally that freakin scatter brained? He supposedly flooded the upstairs bathroom and also set the grill on fire.

    Or was he on drugs earlier in the evening? Because he sure seemed to be on another planet.

    ” And then we just sat there for a while. And we have this big fucking (indiscernible) master bathroom shower that he supposedly fixed a few weeks ago
    (indiscernible) and I had actually you know, if you flowed water through like a tube or something (indiscernible) but I forgot all about it and left it on all through dinner. So then I heard the telltale, you know, water, ran up and, you know, it was a big mess. The water had all flowed out of the hole. I was just cleaning that shit up and so I don’tyou know, it’s very possible, in fact – I would bet the door was unlocked. That wouldn’t surprise me.”

    • Craig
      04/08/2010 at 6:11 PM

      Bea: 1509 as a sardine can or not, Price did not hear 3rd floor master bathroom water flowing while he was in the kitchen.

      A million two buys a better house than that.

    • Gama
      04/08/2010 at 7:21 PM

      Maybe “he” is supposed to refer to the plumber who Joe said leaped tall buildings with a single bound, er I mean the back gate to Joe’s amazement.

      I wonder if the police ever tracked down the plumber to confirm Joe’s story.

      • Gama
        04/08/2010 at 8:32 PM

        Sorry to be replying to myself but I reread that passage. It’s on page 15 of the second transcript. Joe says the plumber who got in by himself by scaling the back gate was there to check out problems with the drains in back patio. Another example, though, of Joe pre-empting challenges to his story — if the plumber could get in over the closed gate, obviously the “intruder” could have too.

        • CDinDC
          04/08/2010 at 9:05 PM

          Not to mention some explanatory nonsense about the drain, which was used in the coverup (hose was out and patio was wet,,,,it was way to hot for that patio to have not dried from dousing the grill earlier in the evening.)

    • Eagle
      04/08/2010 at 9:25 PM

      As a veteran of home leaks and water flows, I have to tell you that this is the craziest description of the craziest leak that I have ever heard or can imagine. Water runs down the floor into the next floor if it overflows. That is what overflow water does.
      Joe left the water flowing and calmly went to dinner? Huh?
      Bathrooms on different floors are usually built one over the other because they use the same plumbing system. So the upstairs (3rd floor) bathroom would leak into the 2nd floor bathroom beneath it.
      Is this bizarre story, an attempt by Joe anticipating questions about why the second floor bathroom was so wet?
      Was there a lot of water on the second floor bathroom walls and/or ceiling because the bathroom had been the scene of a cleaning of a crime scene and/or the cleaning of the victim?
      Were all the showers recently taken by the defendants really because the defendants were wet from cleaning up the crime scene?
      Is this story- of picking up a wet mess from a leak- an explanation for washing and drying towels? Or recent use of the washing/drying machine?
      Was Robert killed in the bathroom? Or cleaned up in the bathroom? Therefore very wet walls and ceilings- explained away by a leak from an overflow upstairs and “showers” of the defendants.

      • Clio
        04/08/2010 at 10:24 PM

        Joe the plumber before Joe the plumber: both are remarkably dumb and coarse!!

        • Eagle
          04/09/2010 at 8:58 AM

          CD;
          I guess I forgot to mention that I come from a long line of plumbers.

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