The Brothers Price

Friday’s Hearing – And Behavior – Raises A New Theory

The more time passes from Friday’s status hearing, the more serious questions arise.  We love hearings like that, and will have much to say over the next few weeks.

As always, there were small details of the day that could easily be over-looked.  Mere dots on a much larger canvas.  However seen together, and with the advantage of a little distance, these small pieces may – perhaps – be the telling details of a very big story change about to come.  Perhaps.

These are the dots…and one possible way to connect them.

Blood Brothers?First, while shooting the departure video (shakes and all, our apologies) it did seem a bit odd that Joe Price and Dylan Ward’s co-counsel Robert Spagnoletti were leaving together, and alone.

Of course, one could write that off to the defendants becoming more wily in evading cameras, or perhaps Joe’s apparent need to manage the legal strategies.

Second, when we learned that Victor Zaborsky, Dylan Ward and Victor’s counsel – a clearly irritated Thomas Connolly – not only used a different exit but actually went in a completely different direction than Joe…eyebrows raised.

Third, thinking back to the pre-trial scene, we all separately noted how…uncomfortable… it felt that Joe was at one end of the hall conferring the Mr. Spagnoletti, with Dylan and Victor at the other end; those two arriving and even entering the court-room together (and thanks again  for the door Victor; very kind.)  In fact, looking back the only time the three defendants were physically together was during the hearing: Joe in the middle, Victor on Joe’s right, Dylan at his left.  There is a certain truth in physical details.

And fourth, these all combined with Mr. Connolly’s “indiscreet” remark, directly in front of one of these four editors.  Face clenched, clearly irritated at the knuckle-rapping he and his team had just received from Judge Leibovitz,  Mr. Connolly none-the-less moved himself to prevent any direct photos of Dylan – who isn’t even his client.  And a breath of a moment later, speaking loudly enough to be heard, he made his now headline remark.

Let’s be plain.  A man of Mr. Connolly’s skills knows exactly what he’s doing.  He could have waited for a private moment to relay his thoughts to his client, but didn’t.  He chose this moment to make clear his displeasure at what had been “…not a good day.”  It seems obvious he wasn’t just speaking to his client, but to someone else as well.   But who?

After the jump, the dots connect in an unforseen way.

First, it seems much breaks down for the defense – and builds up for the prosecution – following Judge Leibovitz decision.  Decisive, it appears to allow broader range for the prosecution and limits the defense claims of unconstitutional charge.   Of course, we expect Judge Leibovitz to continue to confound with her rulings.

So: a new theory.   The Trouple – or Duople more apt – are physically separating, but not along the expected fault lines.  Joe and Victor are the domestic partners, but it’s Victor and Dylan who seem unusually chummy.  Victor’s attorney previously has made clear his intention to separate his client from the other two defendants; now it seems Joe is the one getting separated.

Previously on this site we’ve heard a cramped effort to cast Dylan as sole murderer and Joe (and Victor) as willing dupes in the cover-up at worst…or perhaps Joe as mere bystander.

But what if we’re asking the wrong questions?  What if the missing piece is actually missing?

What if it wasn’t Dylan, what if it wasn’t Victor?

What if the murder was committed by one or both of the Price brothers, with Michael Price the missing piece?  Although missing here, he’s been in attendance at each of the us hearing.  Follow the dots here…

Joe and Mr. Spagnoletti (Ward co-counsel) huddle before and after the hearing, departing together to unknown location.  Joe – and the entire Team Trouple – have just been schooled by Judge Leibovitz, who not only denied the (Joe’s?) Joint Motion to Dismiss Counts One and Two but took precious court time to read her opinion into the record – are in retreat.  Thomas Connolly, tired of following the constrained defense map charted out elsewhere – and certainly not by his client – decides it’s time for bullshit to be called for what it is.

Think about it.  Connolly has been the most vociferous advocate for testing on any of Robert’s remaining physical samples.  What he may know: my client wasn’t involved in the murder.  Might he be working on creating even more distance between Joe and Victor…and bringing Dylan along as well?

Everything we’ve seen – and that you will soon see – from the autopsy suggests that Robert’s fatal blows came not accidentally or casually, but with great force and with Robert clearly unable to defend himself.  Joe or Michael seem to have the physical size for that; Victor and Dylan appear not to.

It seems some evidence – the actual murder knife, bloody towels, clothing, etc. – may have been removed from 1509.  Michael could have performed this task at the behest of his older brother.  He was originally one of the targets of the early police investigation, after all.

Dylan and Victor are found in their robes, either in a daze or a panic.  Joe is not wearing a robe, but just underpants.  He’s the one doing all the talking….changing his story even between Diane Durham and subsequent investigators.

And if one of the brothers is actually covering for the other, why would the two innocents (Dylan and Victor) cover for Joe?

Any number of reasons present themselves, including Joe’s insistence that if they hang together and keep their mouths shut, the police won’t be able to charge any of them with murder.  Maybe not even charge them with conspiracy or obstruction.

It was a tactic that appeared to have worked; at least until Friday’s hearing.  Now, not so much.

And if the legal arguments continue to fall apart, at what point does the person/people doing the covering decide they need their own cover?

posted by Doug

89 comments for “The Brothers Price

  1. des
    01/18/2010 at 1:33 PM

    great assessment editors. it IS curious that joe was seen more with dylan’s attorney on friday. joe is obviously trying desperately to manipulate the entire situation any way he can to save his skin.
    i think both joe and dylan were involved in the assault/murder. but what if maybe joe has convinced dylan (who was in said fugue state or something to that effect) that he was more involved than he actually was?
    rereading the culuket posting on alt.com, joe and dylan were looking for a third so i think that’s what they convinced themselves they were doing that night. then they took it way too far for whatever reason. maybe michael was involved somehow. but i do think that both joe and dylan were involved. otherwise, again, why wouldn’t dylan throw joe under the bus?

  2. Larry
    01/18/2010 at 1:46 PM

    It is truly amazing that your automatically generated related posts did not include “Moronitude for Dummies”

    • Clio
      01/18/2010 at 8:58 PM

      Well, for what it’s worth, I prefer “blueberries, boulevards, bourgeoisie.” That’s the essence of Paris, right, Ben?

      • CDinDC
        01/18/2010 at 9:30 PM

        Considering he lied about the photos, I’m sure he lied about the trip to Paris too.

        Bit of a sickness, seems.

  3. des
    01/18/2010 at 1:49 PM

    my comment got eaten up….

    • Craig
      01/18/2010 at 2:14 PM

      des – Fixed and posted. It may have found its way into the spam box when you mentioned alt.com.

      Writing it out as ‘alt dot com’ doesn’t seem to trigger the spam filters.

  4. des
    01/18/2010 at 2:25 PM

    oops! sorry, and thanks.

  5. Bea
    01/18/2010 at 3:26 PM

    Spag took the lead on writing this set of Motions/Briefs, and Joe undoubtedly had HIS hand in that too. This could explain the before-and-after discussions between the two.

    I imagine Joe running from gate to gate to gate to make sure they are locked and no one escapes.

    I think you may be on to something about Connolly. There is no question but that he’s had the difficult discussions with Victor about saving himself and getting a deal. Maybe he’s working on Dylan – though he would have some ethical limitations since Dylan is not his client – perhaps Dylan, like Victor, is less culpable. Or perhaps Connolly realizes that Joe is a sociopath who will never support Victor’s self-preservation – – but maybe Connolly has seen something decent in Dylan which suggests that HE might support Victor in saving himself.

    Either way, I hope Connolly is successful. Much as I suspect Dylan was in on the actions which may have taken an unlikely turn that night, if he (totally as an example, not grounded in anything but speculation) ran up to get Victor when Joe (or Joe/Michael) set about to stab Robert, then it is POSSIBLE he isn’t the heartless murderer after all. Even if Joe had them all chasing their tails in the beginning, at some point one has to stare at the ceiling and wonder how things got so bad and wonder if there isn’t a better way to address it. . .

    Agree that Connolly likely knew what he was doing when he uttered the words. But for who’s benefit? Does he know our Eds. and does he know one or more of the defendants are faithful readers?

    If any of the three come forward with the truth, even if they get themselves immunity, I for one will feel a little better. I’ve said it before, but I just don’t believe that all three can be sociopaths. Perhaps they’re afraid of Joe in some ways?

    • Craig
      01/18/2010 at 4:10 PM

      Some have said that Zaborsky may have been a ‘battered spouse’. Could Ward have been one too in some regard(s)?

      • Bea
        01/18/2010 at 4:34 PM

        It’s all possible. Maybe he just has them snowed, or maybe there is emotional battery – could even be physical for all I know.

        I recall a video of Michael and Joe on the street that was posted on this site. My recollection from it was that Joe looked grateful to Michael, and that Michael (for once?) got to play magnanimous. I’ve always wondered if Michael wasn’t the trash-man that night, but in all the time before 911 was called, did Joe call upon his kid brother to come assist in the clean-up? Did Victor and Dylan refuse/were unable?

        That leads to another question – when Michael was arrested for breaking into Swann Street, did he actually make it inside? Before I assumed that it was to ‘show’ that the house was a target for random crime. Had the trouple moved back in? My point is wondering if it was before the trouple moved back in, when it was still under quasi- police direction, did Michael try to whisk away something inside the house that the police were unlikely to find (it wouldn’t surprise me if Joe/Dylan were to have a secret-secret-double secret stash spot).

        Random thoughts.

        • des
          01/18/2010 at 5:22 PM

          bea,
          great point about the break in.

          • Craig
            01/18/2010 at 5:50 PM

            The Washington Post media coverage of the break-in is still available. The demise of the Washington Blade also took down their online archives.

            Rereading those stories reminds me of Joe’s concerted efforts to define his little brothers drug issues,” Joe Price also told police that “his brother is known to use drugs and hang with subjects who use drugs on a regular basis…” If one is to believe the burglary was a set up, maybe that was to reinforce the notion of a desperate guy in search of drug money.

            Bea – We never got video of the Brothers Price on the street that day, just (our) Michael’s post.

            • Bea
              01/18/2010 at 6:37 PM

              Ah, the memory is a curious thing. The description was vivid, so perhaps I filled in the blanks.

              The WaPo article suggest that the trouple had already moved back in the house by saying they were away ‘on vacation’ but I know there is some definite answer somewhere if they’d moved back in (or did they ever, really, move back in?).

              If the police still had a stranglehold, then maybe Michael went in to gather something.

              In addition to Craig’s reference to Joe’s statements that Michael was a drug-user, too what is up with all the mention of Michael having a key? I know it’s come up a lot in a charging act, that Joe failed to tell Kathy Wone this, but in this article in December 06, it says that Price noted that his brother had a key.

              WHY DO THEY KEEP TALKING ABOUT IT? Kind of like Joe telling officers that Dylan was on medication (though he trusted him more than his own mom and couldn’t spank a child who’d been bad). Just can’t help himself to try to take attention away from himself, or trying to GARNER the attention as they guy who really tried to help?

              The link to the brothers meeting on the street referenced above also has a post from an Ex-Arent Fox employee who said Michael visited Joe a lot even after the murder. I’ve always assumed Michael was Joe’s primary drug connection, but it is odd to keep that visible connection when you’re planning on having him rob your house. . . so little of it appears to make sense. But Joe is not sloppy – of that, I’m fairly certain.

              • Clio
                01/18/2010 at 8:51 PM

                Well, if Michael was Joe’s dealer or contact and if Joe was using/abusing street/prescription drugs, then it would be a sweet spot for the ill and usually dependent kid brother to have such a hold on his successful sibling. Thus, having Michael to star in the “burglary” would further increase the co-dependency between the Brothers Price. Not since Okinawa did Michael have that much importance to Culuket.

        • CDinDC
          01/18/2010 at 5:57 PM

          Michael and his pal did make it into the house. They pawned electronic equipment taken from the house at a local pawn shop.

        • Mike
          01/18/2010 at 8:54 PM

          Bea, your break in thought never occured to me but seems to ring true. Feels more persuasive than any other theory.

  6. Clio
    01/18/2010 at 5:45 PM

    Now, it may be the Wives Club against the would-be patriarch and his ne’er-do-well brother. I knew that the “women” in this case held the key to resolution, but I did not expect these two in particular to turn that key together. Sisters of Swann, unite!

    • N.M.
      01/18/2010 at 8:07 PM

      That’s my impression – especially if Connolly is nudging this along for his client’s sake. Victor might not have the strength to stand up to Joe on his own, but the two of them might get there. Victor on his own while Joe and Dylan socialize at the trial – I don’t know if Victor could handle that. He’d be drawn back into the trouple. But if Victor and Dylan spend quality time commiserating over Joe and his ways…. one or both of them may grow a spine.

      Am I correct in recalling that of all the items taken from 1509 by the police as evidence, no photo / video equipment was listed? This detail has stuck in my head (so please tell me if I’m wrong about this).

      Thank god there’s a new judge.

      • Bea
        01/18/2010 at 8:51 PM

        I think only a disposable camera and that ilk were taken out of Swann. So I am assuming, like many, that the sophisticated equipment was moved before cops arrived.

        To get Dylan over to Victor’s side in the spine-growing, one would have to think that Dylan also sees himself as less culpable than Joe. And maybe that’s the case. It would be a-ok with me if Victor and Dylan decided to lean on each other and tell the truth.

  7. CDinDC
    01/18/2010 at 5:56 PM

    I have always believed that Joe was the principal player in the assault and murder. Dylan a secondary figure in the assault and murder, and Victor a tertiary figure in the conspiracy and cleanup.

    I still believe that Joe’s grip on Victor and Dylan was enough to guide both Victor adn Dylan through their roles in this crime. Joe’s grip is not only emotional, but financial. Joe was the keeper. I will never believe that Victor was a 100% willing participant in the triad. He acquiesed to Joe’s desires to maintain and keep what he and Joe had worked for. Dylan probably wanted Joe to himself, but took what he could get. And, sorry guys, but I don’t think Michael had anything to do with the death or coverup of Robert, and was used a distraction when he “robbed” his brother’s home.

  8. BenFranklin
    01/18/2010 at 8:11 PM

    Back to the nagging question of the integrity of the scene between searches–seems anyone with a key to 1509 could have entered & hauled away or planted evidence between close of business Friday, August 4th & Thursday, August 10, 2006. In these 5 days & 6 nights the front & back entrances appear to not have been sealed nor were 24-hour guards on duty. If this is the case, then only the items seized & sampled on or before August 4th will be allowed into evidence.

    Wednesday, August 2–murder
    Thursday, August 3–house, car, office search warrants signed
    Friday, August 4–Initial searches executed-house, car, office
    Saturday, August 5–
    Sunday, August 6–

    Monday, August 7–Search warrants signed for basement apartment & BDSM gear
    Tuesday, August 8–
    Wednesday, August 9–
    Thursday, August 10–Search warrants for basement & BDSM gear executed

    Wednesday, August 16–Search warrants for Yahoo account

    • AnnaZed
      01/19/2010 at 1:25 AM

      Damn, I just can’t find that cable anywhere.

      Bear in mind that Michael Price does have a key to my house.

    • CDinDC
      01/19/2010 at 11:16 AM

      Damn those plumbers.

      Ben? Photos?

    • CDinDC
      01/19/2010 at 11:17 AM

      If you’re gonna think that way, Ben, even the residents of the house could have gone in and tampered MORE.

      • Bea
        01/19/2010 at 1:29 PM

        If the house was left unattended (NOT), then the only ones likely to go in and take evidence was our trouple. And you don’t think the cops KNEW who entered?

        Where IS that cable? Maybe I’ll have to go to Best Buy and replace it. They can ALWAYS be replaced – not having a cable is never an excuse to avoid downloading photos. . .

        • BenFranklin
          01/19/2010 at 4:20 PM

          Exactly-they could have gone in and removed anything from a double-secret hiding place, flushed & bleached drains & removed toys. Not preventing access to the scene between warrants is likely one of the many police “missteps” that kept two grand juries from bringing other indictments.

          And there’s no data on my memory card. So sadly there will be no photos from me 🙁 My proxy is not a photographer or techie. We saw what we needed to– a fully robust Ward, not the wasted waif in the mugshot.

          Ward can tell Connolly things he could never admit to his own attorneys. I’m guessing Ward’s memories of that evening are slowing returning.

          That’s the story here.

          Do I hear a bus?

          • CDinDC
            01/19/2010 at 6:38 PM

            Judging from that picture, if Ward’s neck is more than a 15 I’d be surprised.

          • Mike
            01/19/2010 at 6:41 PM

            But Ben, how does this item change your conception of the crime / onus? You speak as though Ward is well placed to do some Price chuckin’. (Squeal of brakes, loud thump.) Are you still convinced that li’l Dyl acted alone? Because it’s seriously not looking that way to me now. At the very least there would not be such coziness on the Dylan/Victor side of the aisle.

            You also speak as though you’ve seen your friend’s photos (which you decline to share, datacard, sure)…
            can you describe what you saw? Any insights? Strength levels not necessary.

            • CDinDC
              01/19/2010 at 8:14 PM

              And if Dylan is throwing Joe under the bus, wouldn’t that be Dylan framing Joe?

              Make up your mind Ben.

              • BenFranklin
                01/19/2010 at 10:49 PM

                The bus is more like a limo. Its sole passenger will be Ward.

                We’ve got no illegal drugs. We’ve got no paralytic drugs. Without paralytic drugs–we don’t likely have a sexual assault–but a curious case of masturbation, instead.

                These vile allegations the cops fabricated won’t be heard again.

                We still have a brutal & tragic murder here –a sudden, rapid, unexpected stabbing by a person know to & trusted by Wone, namely Ward who was under the influence of powerful prescription antidepressants & a hypnotic sedative.

                Nothing changed with the status hearing except we know that Ward is possibly cooperating with Connolly to tell the truth that he cannot tell his own lawyers.

                • Bea
                  01/20/2010 at 12:26 AM

                  Ben, you’re silly. Ward can’t tell Connolly anything because (absent a writing to the contrary) Connolly could be called to the stand to testify as to what was said – no attorney client privilege would protect Ward/Connolly. So I have no idea what you’re thinking – even a first year law student would ‘get’ this – another of your fabrications I suspect.

                  Take your fingers out of your ears. No drugs? X was found and dogs found where much was flushed (you do think the boys would have FLUSHED their drugs, right?). Besides that the prosecutor said in OPEN COURT that they had significant evidence that Price was either a heavy user or a distributor!

                  Your hanging on to the alleged ‘frame’ job and misconduct is just plain silly.

                  I’m wondering if you are Michael Price – not as bright as Joe, which seems to match up – and able to just toss things in without a care for the truth.

                  • BenFranklin
                    01/20/2010 at 3:00 AM

                    Connolly is a star. Don’t underestimate his skill & honor.

                    The drug distributor play by prosecutors is standard operating procedure–usually a safe play– built on anonymous affidavits from coached felon snitches. It’s just not true. This was a work night not play date.

                    Who’s the one with their fingers in their ears, Bea? Can’t you hear there are no drugs & think through what that means? One x pill is does not make anyone a drug fiend.

                    The only drugs responsible in this tragedy are prescriptions & a diagnosed contributing mental illness.

                    Don’t forget who told you that prosecution will back off from the fabricated allegations built on faulty case work starting from day one.

                    This “new theory” is crap. And I think everyone agrees.

                    • Bea
                      01/20/2010 at 3:39 AM

                      Ben,

                      Dylan can’t talk freely to Connolly. Ask any lawyer. I don’t underestimate Connolly – agree that he’s terrific. And I hope he talks HIS client (Zaborsky) into throwing Ward and Price under the bus (where they belong).

                      No, it’s not standard operating procedure for prosecutors to lie in open court. Kind of a good way to get disbarred.

                      Ecstasy WAS found. How many people do you know who have X in their homes who could not be characterized as a ‘drug user’? We’re not talking about a joint. And there’s the dogs sniffing out the other hiding spots. And your boy Ward telling Sarah that one reason the cops were still in the house was because “they found drugs in the house” (no mention of ‘how did it get there?’ or that it was only a tab of X).

                      I agree that probably the ‘new theory’ isn’t the genuine one, though it’s always worth considering new angles. I believe that Price, with Ward’s help, murdered Robert Wone in cold blood.

                      I don’t even know what this paragraph is SUPPOSED to mean:

                      “Don’t forget who told you that prosecution will back off from the fabricated allegations built on faulty case work starting from day one.”

                      I won’t likely forgot that you were the one pretending that the prosecution fabricated allegations – too absurd to forget.

                      Explain again how it was that your friend in DC took pictures but didn’t have a cable to download them but somehow they got lost on your ’empty’ data card. And how “we” (you and your friend) could tell Ward looked “robust” when you never saw him and apparently never saw a picture? Well, except the ones on the site which showed him to be thinner than at the last hearing.

                      Try to think about facts, Ben, and stop doing somersaults to avoid them.

                • JusticeForRobert
                  01/20/2010 at 2:30 AM

                  Ben said: “We’ve got no illegal drugs. We’ve got no paralytic drugs. Without paralytic drugs–we don’t likely have a sexual assault–but a curious case of masturbation, instead.”

                  Ben: Not only was a drug found but dogs hit on two spots, one top floor and one second floor. Curious cases of masturbation do not usually occur AFTER one has taken a shower. Why would you go to the extent of taking a shower and cleaning yourself up for bed if you planned to masturbate? Sorry to those who may find this graphic but even spit and definitely lube combined with seaman is not going to leave one feeling shower fresh. If your going to take care of woody then it would have been so much easier to have done so in the shower or prior to the shower. Then there is that pesky issue as to how that semen swam so far up shore that it landed in Robert’s rectum. In all of my hands on experience I have not yet developed the skill required nor have I ever experienced such an explosive orgasm, curious or not, to ejaculate inside of myself. Seriously, Ben, I like the fact that you can be objective and not just roll with the flow but just because none of a certain drug was discovered, does not mean that it wasn’t there, and wasn’t used that night. I have long suspected that Michael was the “chime” that was described in the intruder tale.

          • Bea
            01/19/2010 at 10:20 PM

            Ben says “we” say a robust Ward. What? Didn’t you admit the other day that you weren’t there?

            No data on YOUR memory card? Again, you said you weren’t there and your friend took the pictures. Then it was that he needed a cable to download.

            Lying, and being so easily caught in the lie, makes me discount your opinion(s) even more.

            And solely by the pictures on the site, Ward looked pencil-necked.

            • Bea
              01/19/2010 at 10:21 PM

              Whoops – “we” SAW a robust Ward.

  9. Lyn
    01/19/2010 at 11:56 AM

    I understand that this post was likely a ‘thought piece’ designed to encourage everyone to think about all possibilities, but suggesting that Ward was not involved in the murder is problematic.

    How likely is it that Price would decide to select his murder weapon from the closet of a sleeping roommate rather than from the knives in the kitchen? And what about the electro-stim device, which would also have had to been returned to the roommate’s closet after its retrieval and use?

    And to believe this, we have to believe that Ward fell very soundly asleep in a matter of moments. After all, he stated that he was awake while Wone was showering and that he fell asleep after hearing Wone close and latch his bedroom door upon retiring for the night. Under the theory that he wasn’t involved, he would have had to fall into a deep sleep almost instantly to give time for the injections, sexual abuse, murder weapon retrieval, murder, clean up, etc. to have had time to occur before the 911 call.

    And if the cover up/clean up happened before the other roommates were awakened, then why did Zaborsky say he was giving another towel to Price during the 911 call when only one towel was found. Seems to me that the cover up was continuing.

    • CDinDC
      01/19/2010 at 12:59 PM

      Lyn says: “select his murder weapon from the closet of a sleeping roommate”

      I think that set was stashed in the closet. It may well have been in the kitchen prior to the murder.

      In any event, I agree with your post, Lyn.

      I don’t think Dylan is stupid enough to take the fall for Joe and his brother if he were truly innocent of ANY charge. I think the reason they all stick together (still living together) is because they are equally complicit in the murder and/or coverup. They are so intertwined in the events of that night, that no one can turn on another.

      We’ve said many times that Joe and/or Victor wouldn’t take the fall for a fourth party. I don’t think Dylan would do it either. I can’t imagine he’s THAT p-whipped.

  10. Friend of Rob
    01/19/2010 at 5:59 PM

    I just can’t believe that Joe would have instigated such a poorly-planned murder.
    Covered it up? Yes.

    Joined in something that somebody else started? Yes.

    But planning something poorly thought out? No way.

    • Craig
      01/19/2010 at 6:18 PM

      FoR: Is it possible that Joe could have been off his game in the summer of 2006?

      Likewise, it’s also hard to imagine a smart lawyer guy like him would allegedly have several gigs of S-M porn on his office PC.

      Is it also possible that the murder wasn’t poorly planned, just poorly executed? Off his game? Reckless? A little of both?

      Just askin’ because I’m as confused as ever.

      • Friend of Rob
        01/20/2010 at 11:43 AM

        We’re talking about a guy who had only recently made partner at a major law firm, which in itself shows that he was holding his shit together.

        Let me tell you, as someone who has been responsible for pulling and reviewing files from the computers of VERY senior executives at Fortune 500 companies, you wouldn’t believe the kind of porn we regularly find. S&M would not surprise me in the least. Folks view their hard drives as relatively safe places to store stuff — I doubt he downloaded it on his work network.

        Joe would have no reason to plan Robert’s murder. Maybe Joe or Dylan thought it would be funny to secretly drug Robert and see what he was “really” like with his inhibitions loosened up or maybe one of them just wanted to act out a rape fantasy that he had about Robert, but things went too far and Robert ended up dead.

        The stabbing itself was obviously just part of the cover-up. Robert was dead (or appeared to be dead) before he was stabbed to concoct the intruder theory.

        • Bea
          01/20/2010 at 12:29 PM

          Agree.

          • CDinDC
            01/20/2010 at 2:26 PM

            FofR says: “Robert was dead (or appeared to be dead) before he was stabbed to concoct the intruder theory.”

            I hear you, Friend, but I still tend to to think that Joe killed Robert out of fear of discovery of the initial crime of rape. His world would crumble.

            I know, I know…no drugs were found in Robert’s system, but ketamine was not tested for, so it CANNOT be ruled out, and there is evidence of injection marks on Robert’s body.

            So, in that light, ketamine will not mecessarily “knock someone out” but it will immobilize them to the point of being easily subdued. Joe may have thought Robert might not know what was happening, but Robert may have been alert enough to have known what was happening to him and made it clear to Joe in some manner. Eye movement. Verbal utterance. Etc.

            I believe Joe killed Robert to “get rid of the witness.”

            • BenFranklin
              01/20/2010 at 3:36 PM

              A pushy, needy, greedy, hungry, bottom like Price does not rape anyone. Not Wone. Not anyone.

              There you go calling punctures “injections” again. Let’s say for the duration of this reply that they were injections–given the locations–they would necessarily be subcutaneous “skin pop” injections. This kind of injection takes 5-15 minutes to absorb into the bloodstream from subcutaneous tissue. There’s problem one–where do you put 5 to 15 minutes on the time line?

              Liquid ketamine is intended for IV injection only because it is extremely irritating & caustic & damaging to subcutaneous tissues. The injection sites would have been red, raised welts obviously visible to the EMTs. This was not observed.

              If the ME observed the punctures & thought they might be injections, why were the irritated tissues not sampled & tested for Ketamine, a known injection drug?

              Price as rapist simply doesn’t work. Subcutaneous injections of Ketamine doesn’t work. Two fundamentally flawed assumptions.

              • Bea
                01/20/2010 at 5:41 PM

                The ME did note the needle marks – presumably they were visible or she wouldn’t have seen them. I think 5 minutes works fine in the time line – particularly since the needle is jammed in numerous times in numerous locations (as if WHY ISN’T THIS WORKING YET?).

                Price sure fits the bill of the rapist under the facts as we know them. Why else stab a friend three times in a meticulous fashion? You may think it’s all Ward’s handiwork, but I think it fits Price’s personality and MO more than Ward’s.

                • CDinDC
                  01/20/2010 at 6:26 PM

                  agree 100%, Bea.

                  Joe’s personality as shared by individuals that know him pesonally, is controlling and hot tempered. Sounds a little volatile to me.

                • BenFranklin
                  01/20/2010 at 6:46 PM

                  Why didn’t the ME sample the sites?

                  We don’t know facts; we have allegations.

                  I don’t buy the meticulous fashion–that’s part of the picture they framed–a subjective opinion from an incompetent ME. It was stunningly forceful plunges of a very sharp knife–no time to react resulting in clean wounds.

                  Price is an open book.

                  Ward is a man of few words–an enigma–a Thai sex tourist & it doesn’t get any freakier than that.

                  • CDinDC
                    01/20/2010 at 9:56 PM

                    Ben, you need to do your research.

                    If you take the time to do that before you open your mouth, you may learn something and stop making a fool out of yourself.

                    There is a forensic science to stab wounds. If Robert were indeed awake and stabbed 3x quickly as you claim, he would have reacted. He would have moved. Even it were to only fall to the floor, he would have moved. The wounds would not be clean. PLUS, the knife would have been upside down, Ben. The wounds are sharp side up. And the thrust of the knife wounds is downward.

                    ANNNNDDDD…where’s teh blood, Ben? Where… is….the…..blood?

                    If things went your way, they are guilty of the crimes they are being tried for. Why are you so vehemently defending these pathetic men?

              • CDinDC
                01/20/2010 at 6:24 PM

                1, pushy, needy, greedy, hungry, bottom can FLIP. They don’t necessarily stay bottoms. Any dom I’ve ever met was at one point…..a sub.

                2. maybe a very large mosquito was in the room.

                3. liquid ketamine intended for IV use only. That is incorrect. It is used intramuscularly as well. In fact, it is used very often IM to sedate large mammals such as walrus. It is safer recreationally when used intramuscularly.

                In fact, take from a medical website: 6.5-13 mg/kg is given intramuscularly for 12-25 minutes of surgical anesthesia.

                • CDinDC
                  01/20/2010 at 6:28 PM
                • BenFranklin
                  01/20/2010 at 7:00 PM

                  The puncture sites on Wone were not intramuscular target zones–only subcutaneous injections would have worked in those areas & SubQ K would have left left huge red welts that the EMTs would have observed.

                  IM injections require sturdy 18-22 gauge points. The holes/bruises left by huge IM needles would have been easily observable by the EMTs, and they were not.

                  • SheKnowsSomething
                    01/20/2010 at 7:51 PM

                    Ben,

                    Where did you do your one year of medical school?

                    • BenFranklin
                      01/20/2010 at 8:25 PM

                      SKS,
                      Generations of MDs on both sides of my family.

                      Wish you were the foreman on my attacker’s DC jury. You could have saved lives.

                    • Bea
                      01/20/2010 at 9:02 PM

                      Hilarious! One year law, one year med, but what about the forensic medicine and pharmacology? Perhaps undergrad courses at W&M (where you get a diploma and a get-out-of-jail card).

                  • CDinDC
                    01/20/2010 at 10:06 PM

                    Okay, Ben…I’ll play it your way. Let’s say those areas are not intramuscular sites as you claim. If you google “subcutaneous injection ketamine” you will see that ketamine is also injected SubQ.

                    next.

                    • BenFranklin
                      01/21/2010 at 12:54 AM

                      Sure it is! K is often injected SubQ–never said it wasn’t–but the consequence of SubQ K injection is tissue damage with obvious red welts & risk of infection. No welts were observed. There is no doing it that way without massive red welts & tissue damage.

                    • 09/30/2011 at 11:54 PM

                      Just do me a favor and keep writing such trenchant aanysles, OK?

                • BenFranklin
                  01/20/2010 at 10:55 PM

                  Flipping is too much like work.

                  You are right that ketamine can be used intramuscularly, but it’s not relevant here because Wone’s microscopic punctures could only have been possibly been SubQ sites, not IM or IV sites.

                  Fresh SubQ K injections would cause obvious red welts that should have been noted by the EMTs or the doctor at GWU hospital. They were not observed by either.

                  • CDinDC
                    01/20/2010 at 11:06 PM

                    “Flipping is too much like work.” what? figuratively, Ben. Not literally.

                    So, perhaps the injection sites were subQ. Also, he didn’t die immediately. Therefore, his injection sites had time to calm down if there was any redness.

              • des
                01/20/2010 at 6:37 PM

                rape is about power. an f’d up kind of power. topping from the bottom is another form of the desire for f’d up power.
                and joe advertised about being into torture. so how can you say that a guy “…like Price does not rape anyone. Not Wone. Not anyone.” ?
                that sounds just about right to me.
                and if we presume that robert was given some sort of date rape drug first, then the 5 minutes it would take to be under the effects of ketamine isn’t a problem.

                • BenFranklin
                  01/20/2010 at 7:04 PM

                  We don’t have a date rape drug here, des. No GHB. No K. No nothing. Can somebody please tell me a story without magical paralytics?

                  • Bea
                    01/20/2010 at 8:58 PM

                    Ben, I’d say that you can’t make this stuff up it’s so delicious, but clearly you ARE making it up!

                • des
                  01/20/2010 at 7:11 PM

                  ok, i don’t want anyone to think i am comparing bsdm with anything f’d up. that was a terrible typo. but my point is that i think joe is capable of rape.

    • CDinDC
      01/19/2010 at 6:31 PM

      “Poorly-planned.” I don’t think the murder was premeditated beyond that night. How could someone (anyone) construct a perfectly planned murder and coverup in 75 minutes?

      Joe probably THINKS he could do it, but alas, if he was the mastermind, he certainly did not.

  11. CDinDC
    01/20/2010 at 10:06 PM

    my posts are not showing.

    • Craig
      01/20/2010 at 11:47 PM

      Spam filters are acting up. We’re going to yell at WordPress. If you don’t see you comment give it some time and we’ll fix.

  12. CDinDC
    01/21/2010 at 12:27 AM

    Ben Franklin says: “Generations of MDs on both sides of my family. ”

    Yeah? Well, there are generations of men on both sides of my family. Doesn’t mean I can piss standing up, Ben.

    • BenFranklin
      01/21/2010 at 12:58 AM

      I bet you could if you really needed to.

      • SheKnowsSomething
        01/21/2010 at 8:34 AM

        Ben,

        I don’t believe anything you say in any of your posts. I don’t believe you attended William and Mary, or that you knew Robert. I think you have been untruthful about your connection to the defendants, and you made up all that non-sense about photos and cables and data cards. You’ve been rambling on about legal and medical issues without benefit of any professional training or understanding to back-up your wild assertions.

        If indeed you were attacked and a suspect was tried and not found guilty, you have greatly embellished the outcome of the trial in order to back-up some wild-ass charge of police and prosecutorial ineptitude and misconduct; not to mention your baseless insult to the citizens of the District who will comprise the jury pool.

        As a matter of fact, you’ve blamed practically everyone associated with this case with some deliberate unlawful action — except the folks who lived at 1509 Swann Street NW.

        • former crackho
          01/21/2010 at 10:43 AM

          Yes. Quite frankly I’m finding his whole schtick rather boring. And I’m not easily bored.

        • BenFranklin
          01/21/2010 at 11:44 AM

          I stand by my observations & many of them will prove to be right, especially the medical claim that subcutaneous ketamine injections cause massive, persistent irritation & welts that could not have been missed by EMTs or the ER doctor at GWU.

          I know I’m on the right track when people attack me personally instead of my contributions.

          I feel no obligation to sing in tune with anyone here or in law enforcement. You are welcome to question anything I say here.

          This investigation & prosecution suffers from terrible, incompetent, prejudiced case work, likely misconduct, and you know it.

          White gay men will find it very difficult to seat a jury of their peers in DC & for you or anyone to imply otherwise is disingenuous.

          Your DC jury experience makes my point about DC jury pools in the post about the new judge. The trial on which you were foreman would have gone terribly wrong without intervention by you. You cannot be foreman on every DC jury, my dear, especially this one.

          • CDinDC
            01/21/2010 at 4:05 PM

            Ben, the EMTs NOR the ER doctors (Robert was dead on arrival) are in the business of examining the body post mortem (or pre-mortem, for that matter). They are in the business of saving lives and administering life saving techniques. EMTs do not scan a persons body for for intricate details such as injection marks. Nor do ER doctors. These professionals conduct medical procedures to deal with the issues at hand.

            However, it is the medical examiner’s job to conduct a thorough examination of corpse. Hence, the discovery of needle marks in various places on Robert’s body (including the foot.)

            Re welts….puhleeeeaase. I have scoured the internet for physiological reactions to subQ ketamine injection. Nada. Nothing about welts.

            Regarding reddening, welts, etc for SubQ OR IM injections, I’ve had both types of injections in my lifetime. Neither produced anything unusual. I’m sure everyone on this site can attest to that.

            And for that matter, you don’t know whether those injection sites were SubQ or IM. And thank you for acknowledging that they ARE injection sites (with all your SubQ talk.)

          • She did it
            01/21/2010 at 8:57 PM

            ben —

            yawn. fart.

            give it a rest for a spell, my dear.

            • Clio
              01/21/2010 at 11:20 PM

              Ben, dearest, your skills at repartee do seem a bit rusty. Remember also that the Enlightenment — your heyday — was the Age of Reason in which conventional wisdoms were challenged with facts, not assertions. And, boasting about the mythical photos did not help: who could imagine a Founding Father downloading digital pictures and then lying about it? Unfathomable! Next!

          • Nora
            01/22/2010 at 8:02 AM

            “White.”

            You’re the one who was implying something, Ben. And now everyone here can smell it.

            “…and you know it” is the way every spoiled nine year old caps his argument. Why don’t you toddle back to the children’s table, Ben? Most people here are genuinely trying to solve this thing. Hushhhhh.

  13. former crackho
    01/21/2010 at 10:38 AM

    Why are we still entertaining Ben?

    • BenFranklin
      01/21/2010 at 11:50 AM

      Ho,
      Did you ever use injection drugs? Can you contribute something here?
      Put away the pitchforks…
      I know the truth hurts….

      • former crackho
        01/21/2010 at 1:46 PM

        Truth I can take. Crazy hypothesis I can take. Blatant lies, not so much. But to answer your question, yes, I was a street junkie in Harlem for 15 years, while I was performing in the original cast of “A Chorus Line” and, simultaneously, fooling audiences as the only pre-op transexual Radio City Rockette, performing under the alias “Miss Sharon Needles.”

        • BenFranklin
          01/21/2010 at 3:04 PM

          Did you ever “miss” a vein when injecting the meth? Meth is just as caustic & irritating as ketamine for causing raised red welts when injected subcutaneously.

          • former crackho
            01/21/2010 at 3:32 PM

            Is it?

  14. Bea
    01/21/2010 at 3:51 PM

    When Ben says something silly (and you know it won’t be long), can we respond in an equally inane fashion? Examples: “My dog has perfect pitch!” or “Evelyn is from Detroit!” or “I’m wearing the same socks I wore yesterday!”

    Which do you think is true:
    a. he still pines about the one-off hookup he had with Joe in 2002;
    b. he’s off his meds;
    c. he’ll stop writing soon after he starts the spring semester;
    d. he’ll one day makes the news by marrying long-time prisoner Joe Price after decades of letter-writing.

    • CDinDC
      01/21/2010 at 4:27 PM

      I have looked through my ketamine resources and scoured the internet for additional information and can find nothing that confirms Ben’s assertion that SubQ ketamine causes welts.

      Nothing.

      Perhaps Ben is thinking about steriods because there is significant information out there about welts after SubQ injection of anabolic steriods.

      Sorry, Ben. Just another example of you manipulating the truth to fit your rants.

      • former crackho
        01/21/2010 at 5:26 PM

        I have injected K subcutaneously many times. It did not cause a welt, at least not on me. I have seen others do it, too, and I don’t recall anyone complaining (though they were probably so high on crystal, who would complain?) It was like getting any other type of shot. Injecting crystal meth, if you miss a vein, is very different. It can be very painful and can cause a large bump and possibly and abscess. Incidentally, I was at the Crew Club (don’t believe their “drug free” policy) just about every time I used these types of drugs (this was many years ago). I hope to God I didn’t have sex with Dylan. Or, worse still, Ben (though I’m not married)!

        • CDinDC
          01/21/2010 at 6:09 PM

          You would have know if it was Ben, FCH. He’s the one with the big dunce cap on.

    • SheKnowsSomething
      01/21/2010 at 4:53 PM

      I think I like it!

      • Bea
        01/21/2010 at 5:06 PM

        This makes perfect sense – of course an EMT or ER Doc concerned with whether they can RESTART HIS HEART are not going to make a note of ‘looks like he had a needle in his foot’ while they are charging the paddles.

        That’s one of my problems with Ben – disingenuous posts of minutia to muddy all waters. Of course, that’s what defense attorneys do when they have bad facts to work with. CONFUSE THE JURY becomes the overall strategy. That way when ‘reasonable doubt’ comes up during closing arguments, they harken back to each incident in which the jurors wished to scratch their heads. I really am not kidding – I wish I were. One reason I loathed criminal work (and to an extent civil litigation).

        LOVED your Ben-like ‘trick’ of saying ‘thanks for agreeing that they were INJECTION sites.’ Just you wait, he’ll find a way of dodging it. Perhaps a youthful game played in the streets of Thailand in which one sticks a large-gaged needle into a passing pedestrian, additional points in you could ‘get him’ in many strange places, a game which piqued the interest of the ethereal yet thick-necked Dylan Ward. . .

        • CDinDC
          01/21/2010 at 5:24 PM

          Ben has a way of sticking his foot in his mouth. If you work him enough he comes full circle and agrees with you. LOL

    • former crackho
      01/21/2010 at 5:27 PM

      all of the above

    • Penelope
      01/21/2010 at 11:52 PM

      Bea, I suspect that our dear Ben is in the late brain-addled stages of syphilis, perhaps acquired on a jaunt to Paris.

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