Waving the Bloody Shirt

What did Joe Price see that no one else did?

Both the Government and defense have retained expert witnesses.  

At the September 11 status hearing, the defense talked about the difficulties of coordinating tests with one of theirs in California.  The Government however has hired local; a blood spatter expert from Northern Virginia is on board.  We’ll meet him in the next week or so.

We’re starting to wonder if they’re even needed.  There is one piece of evidence that appears so incriminating that both the prosecution and defense might just want to save the money and direct their resources elsewhere.

WandM tshirt

 

Take this  line from Joe Price’s statement in the original affidavit

On page 10, he tells detectives that upon finding Robert on the guest room sofa bed, he lifted up his grey William and Mary t-shirt and saw “blood everywhere.” 

 

Come again?

Robert suffered two deep stab wounds to the abdomen and one into his heart but Joe Price had to lift up his t-shirt to see blood?  

There wasn’t a large blood stain soaking through Robert’s t-shirt?  

What else doesn’t fit?

 “Blood everywhere?”

There’s this statement from the first responding EMT with 15 years experience, listed as W-2 in the affidavit:

“She saw a large hole in the victim’s chest, big enough to ‘fit your finger into,’ but there was no blood whatsoever on the victim…”

Her colleague W-1, later in the affidavit stated that:

“…no blood was coming from the three wounds in Mr. Wone’s chest…  and recalls seeing little-to-no blood on Mr. Wone’s chest…”

“Blood everywhere?”

The EMT statements leads us to believe the one of the most damning pieces of evidence will be the not-so-bloody shirt.

Who the Hell needs an expert to wave that in front of a jury? 

Bodies don’t miraculously wash themselves.  Neither do t-shirts. 

And intruders aren’t known to clean either.  (The tampering) Case closed?

-Craig

55 comments for “Waving the Bloody Shirt

  1. Clio
    10/19/2009 at 12:27 PM

    This Civil War reference — “waving the bloody shirt” — may be even more devastating to the defense than “the Maryland campaign.” Great post, Craig: case closed, indeed!

  2. Bea
    10/19/2009 at 2:34 PM

    The “raising” of the shirt and seeing “blood everywhere” seems pretty stupid – and easy enough to discredit, particularly if the inside of the W & M t-shirt had no significant blood on it. The whole thing stinks of lies. How smart people thought this was a good plan escapes me – unless (likely) it was the only plan left. Joe’s no fool, even when he’s f**ked up – though definitely he was off his game that night. Even if they ‘had’ to clean up because of mixed DNA, and set up certain aspects to exonerate themselves, some of the clean up was downright stupid. No blood at all? Telling 911 that they were stanching the bleeding when there was none to stanch? I know the controversy about Ashley’s regent, but there had to be luminol used to see ‘where’ the blood had been. Spic-n-span doesn’t hide from luminol.

    • CDinDC
      10/19/2009 at 3:16 PM

      I can’t get that song out of my head…”only fooools belieeeeeeve”……

      re Ashley’s reagent, I wonder if Ashley’s was the ONLY reagent used. As Bea mentioned, there’s Luminol, and there is another….Blue Star.

      From my research, Ashley’s is unique in that you don’t have to mix it. It comes premixed, where Luminol and Blue Star must be mixed or prepared with a chemical prior to use.

      Leads me to believe that the “misuse” could have been on what surfaces Ashley’s was used, as certain reagents are used for certain surfaces (porous/non-porous).

      I’m still waiting to hear how it was misused.

    • Mike
      10/20/2009 at 7:33 AM

      I think we have to keep trying, because I don’t see the blood issue as being much of a smoking gun. The million-dollar defense team could easily portray Price as too panicked to remember / process things clearly. As a last resort they could allow that he was under the influence of, say, a mild hallucinogen. Such “honesty” might garner jury sympathy.

      People experiencing shock often let their imaginations run wild.

      I honestly believe there is something (legally) damning in this case and that if we keep sifting the known facts we will find it.

  3. Former Crackho
    10/19/2009 at 5:27 PM

    Wish I had gotten my hands on the kinds of drugs these boys were on that night during my using days, cause it must have been some really good sh**.

    • John Grisham
      10/19/2009 at 5:57 PM

      Fortunately, you don’t, and won’t rot the rest of your life in a cell. Although some folks can get use to this kind of life and enjoy it.

  4. Lyn
    10/19/2009 at 5:35 PM

    Great post. Just reread the affidavit and noticed that Ward claims he heard Robert exit the shower, go into the guest bedroom and latch the door (i.e., lock the door).

    Given that Robert was not awake when he was stabbed, I wonder how the “intruder” got into the “latched” room. I recall that police found no signs of disruption in the house and no signs of forced entry.

    I also wonder how Price and Zaborsky got into that “latched” room to find Robert stabbed.

    I find it hard to believe that the “intruder” got through the “latched” door without damaging it or waking Robert in the process (or Ward, for that matter). I guess a more plausible possibility is that Ward simply lied about hearing Robert’s door latch, but why on earth would he have any motivation to lie about something like that????

    • CuriousInVa
      10/19/2009 at 5:49 PM

      Because liars lie, Lyn! Often what trips up liars is that in their attempt to deceive they add too many details (i.e. spider on the light etc). Eventually either a detail is easily disprovable or the liar forgets what he said before and contradicts himself. Of course, Ward could be telling something that did happen but then leaving out what happened next – like he and/or Joe knocking on Robert’s door w/ some excuse to come in.

      • Lyn
        10/19/2009 at 10:07 PM

        Yep, I agree. And I think he had plenty of reason to lie about something like that. What do you expect someone to say that is trying to distance themselves from something terrible. “I heard his door latch. He was in there safe and sound the last I heard. Then I was fast asleep. Therefore, I couldn’t have been involved.”

    • Bea
      10/19/2009 at 5:59 PM

      I guess I’ve assumed that “latch” may not have meant “locked” but simply the sound of the catch. I think it would be odd to lock a door at a friend’s house under most circumstances – unfortunately for Robert he didn’t keep his “friends” at bay that night.

      • Clio
        10/19/2009 at 6:20 PM

        I always close and lock the door at a friend’s house, when staying over at bedtime, to protect everyone’s privacy. But that’s just me!

        Did that door even have a lock or a latch, though? Is there any way to tell from the realtor pictures? What does “latch” mean? “Latch” seems a rather odd or obsolete word to use.

        • Bea
          10/19/2009 at 7:42 PM

          Don’t know what was meant by ‘latch’. Maybe I’m ‘out there’ in not locking the bedroom door at a friend’s house. Bathroom, yes, but unless they have kids or unruly inhabitants, I close the bedroom door but tend not to lock it.

          • CDinDC
            10/19/2009 at 10:01 PM

            Bea, I studied the photos of the tour that rumplestilskin posted. It appears that all the door handles are the same throughout the house. (I would think any saavy decorator would be consistent throughout the house. LOL) Anyway, in any of the photos showing doors, the door hardware are lever style handles. Usually, the lock on a lever style handle is one of those small center turn mechanisms that you find on any ol’ doorknob.

            I have lever handles similar to those in the photos. I’d be hard pressed to hear the lock mechanism on my door handles 3 feet away, much less 10 feet or more and through a closed bedroom door.

            Dylan’s must have bionic hearing, among his many skills.

          • Craig
            10/19/2009 at 10:02 PM

            Ward …heard his [Mr. Wone’s] door close and “heard the latch,” is how Ward is quoted in the affidavit (p. 9).
            It sounds like Ward meant locked in addition to the sound of the door closing.

            Wouldn’t a locked bedroom door impede an intruder? If thats the case wouldn’t Ward’s room have been more accessible? Yet he remaind unscathed. Ummmm….

            This is too much for a Monday.

          • AnnaZed
            10/21/2009 at 10:29 AM

            I am afraid that much as I would like to jump on Dylan Ward’s statement, to me the sound of a latch just means the click of a door closing not necessarily locking. For my own part I don’t lock my door when I am in the guest room of a good friend.

            • Perplexed
              10/24/2009 at 8:09 PM

              What a sec. I’m having trouble with this. DW heard RW take a shower, then heard him latch the door. But I thought he took a sleeping pill after retiring upstairs and “didn’t hear anything.” Which is it?

              • CDinDC
                10/24/2009 at 11:05 PM

                I think he claimed to hear the shower/latch while he was reading before he fell asleep. He supposedly didn’t hear anything else (break in/murder) because he had fallen asleep under the influence of a sleeping pill.

      • Lyn
        10/19/2009 at 9:58 PM

        Maybe, but when someone says “latch the door” my first thought is “lock the door.” The fact that ward said he heard two things, first the door close and second the door latch, makes me think the latching was independent of the sound of the door closing.

        Also, if Ward meant only that he heard Robert’s door close, I think it would be unlikely that he would take the extra step of saying he also heard it latch. Wouldn’t he just say he heard the door close, period?

  5. Lyn
    10/19/2009 at 10:17 PM

    Editors and others – Does anyone know if the MPD took pictures of Robert’s body on the bed before taking him to the hospital (where he was “officially” pronounced dead just 25 minutes or so after paramedics first arrived at Swann St.)?

    That would seem to be some pretty damning evidence if they showed an almost complete lack of blood on Robert’s shirt, body and bed and if they showed his body in a “posed” position laying perfectly flat on a pristine bed with arms by his side. I’m sure they took pictures of everything separately later, but it would be a real shame if they took his body to the hospital without taking a few photos (given that paramedics were absolutely sure he was dead when they examined him in the house).

    • Doug
      10/20/2009 at 7:44 AM

      Lyn – page 3 of the original affidavit states: “As the paramedics attended to Mr. Wone, Metropolitan Police Department (“MPD”) officers arrived on the scene and entered the house.”
      Much follows about the scene – the condition of Robert, the physical setting, marked items of evidence including a bloody knife (exhibits A and B) and two small areas of blood on the bed (exhibits C and D.) There is no explicit reference anywhere that follows of when the EMTs took Robert to the hospital.
      Confusing matters more, of course, is Officer Diane Durham’s statement, and the questions it brings up. (http://whomurderedrobertwone.com/2009/09/14/game-changer/)
      It’s clear from filings this summer that many rolls of film were taken by the MPD. However it’s not sure whether any of those photos were of Robert on the guest bed. (This author in inclined to believe not at this point.)
      And if not, could this be standard MPD practice? Seems fishy.
      -Doug, co-editor

      • Craig
        10/20/2009 at 10:14 AM

        Lyn – I think in one of the motions in this post is a list of the photos that MPD and the FBI squads took at the scene. It seems thorough and was part of the discovery fight earlier this summer. I don’t recall seeing any mention of Robert on the sofa bed.

        It makes me wonder what DC EMT and MPD procedure might be as far as SOP for crime scene pics.

        • Lyn
          10/20/2009 at 12:00 PM

          It makes me wonder too, especially considering the EMTs were sure Robert was dead and had been dead for some time. Combine that with the immediately belief on the part of the experienced EMTs that something was clearly amiss with the residents, and I would think that the EMTs/MPD would want to avoid disturbing the crime seen (as presented by the residents) to preserve evidence.

  6. Clio
    10/20/2009 at 1:55 PM

    The William and Mary logo and lettering on the shirt made me also think of the appearance of Joe and Victor at W&M’s Homecoming 2006 in October of that year, just a few months after the murder. The link for that may still be at:

    http://www.wmgala.org/photos_homecoming2006.html

    This alumni organization seemed genuinely unfazed by the scandal with at least one noted professor being photographed in conference with the “power couple.” I wonder what they all think now!

  7. Friend of Rob
    10/20/2009 at 4:12 PM

    The level of chutzpah that Joe displayed after the murder is the most shocking thing to me. He was a pallbearer at Rob’s funeral and stood there crying with the rest of us. I even shook his goddamn hand as we left the church.

    • David
      10/20/2009 at 4:35 PM

      FOR,

      I have been shocked by the chutzpah as well but I am sure it is nothing compared to those who knew Robert personally. It’s not a just chutzpah though, it’s the behavior of a sociopath and that is the most disturbing aspect for me.

      David

      • Friend of Rob
        10/20/2009 at 9:56 PM

        It is sociopathic behavior in the true sense of the word. I’ve known Joe and Rob since 1992 and while Joe has always been somewhat of a narcissist, this is all beyond comprehension.

        • Nelly
          10/20/2009 at 10:30 PM

          I wanted to believe that Joe wasn’t fully involved in this also, but reading about his reactions and behavior the night of the murder, especially what he allegedly said on in the ride to the police station, have changed my mind. He is one truly f’d up piece of garbage.

          • Bea
            10/21/2009 at 2:05 AM

            Friend of Rob,
            I can only imagine what you and others who knew both Robert and Joe must be experiencing. I didn’t realize you knew Joe too – I’d really like hearing any more insight you have about him. The narcissism is not a surprise to me.

            Nelly, do you know Joe as well?

            Best to you both.

            • Friend of Rob
              10/21/2009 at 7:43 AM

              While Joe is a sociopath, he is also a sissy and I do not think that Joe was capable of intentionally killing Robert. My theory is that Dylan started a chain of events (e.g., drugging and raping Rob) that got out of hand. Whether Joe got involved before or after Robert was actually dead I don’t know.

              The most important thing to Joe has always been Joe. Once Robert was dead, Joe would have the murder as just a problem to solve and since Joe is the center of the universe, anything he did to keep himself in the clear is not only defensible, but a moral imperative. Moreover, since Joe is a genius, he would be able to manage the events and see himself clear.

              If I had to guess, I would say that Joe discovered things after things had gone past the point of no return and that he had planned on dumping the body somewhere and denying that Rob had ever arrived. However, something happened that blew those plans (a scream?) halfway through and Joe realized that he couldn’t come clean without implicating himself in an attempt to cover up Dylan’s crime.

              • Lyn
                10/21/2009 at 12:47 PM

                FOR,

                Do you think Robert knew Joe well enough to know about his “atypical” sexual activities (such as the things depicted in photos found on Joe’s work computer)?

                • Friend of Rob
                  10/21/2009 at 1:22 PM

                  I have never heard anyone discuss Joe’s atypical activities and have no reason to think that Rob would have known about them. Rob and Joe were good friends, but not best friends.

                  Many did not know that Joe was gay until after graduation. There is a surprising large circle of WM alumni who were very active in student government around the 1991-1998 time period who were gay.

                  • Clio
                    10/21/2009 at 2:14 PM

                    Did Joe live in Virginia Beach from 1991 through the mid-1990s? There is a Joseph Price in the City Directories for those years.

                    • Friend of Rob
                      10/21/2009 at 3:35 PM

                      Joe didn’t graduate WM until 1993 and was Student Association president that year. I don’t recall if he lived on campus that year, but since Va Beach is an hour drive (sometimes much, much more with tunnel traffic) I don’t think it could be the same one.

                    • Clio
                      10/22/2009 at 11:43 AM

                      Thanks, FOR. That’s what I thought, too, but I still am intrigued by the oral histories of gay men in Hampton Roads who knew Joe and who claimed in 2006 that his mother “STILL” lived in Va. Beach.

                      The Price brothers and their peripatetic upbringing still need the added disinfectant of sunlight in order to know why they are acting today as a bloc.

            • Nelly
              10/26/2009 at 1:06 AM

              No, I never had the pleasure of meeting Joe, but I sort of know a few people who knew him. A couple of them didn’t think Joe was capable of such a crime- this was before all the details came out last year- but one who thought he was a real “culu” did.

  8. Clio
    10/20/2009 at 11:59 PM

    Sociopaths rarely stop at one crime, and their comrades in crime (and their comrades’ families) always end up as their victims, too. It’s all about them!

    Members of Team Price, take note and drop that dime, penny, quarter, Swiss franc, whatever — now for your own safety, if not for Robert!

    • John Grisham
      10/21/2009 at 1:08 AM

      Clio, I agree with you. Did you ever see my post a while back about a Flordia double “suicide” — but more likely all murder — while Dylan was in town near by giving gay massages to the S&M community?

      • Clio
        10/21/2009 at 11:10 AM

        No, John. Could you resubmit it here for our consideration?

        Dylan’s post-murder travels may yield more insights than anyone of us, including Culuket, may care to ponder.

        • John Grisham
          10/21/2009 at 3:54 PM

          I can’t find my original postings on this either (please someone, improve the “search” fuction for this site). But I basically asserted that when this murder happened:

          * A knife was used
          * Dylan was living in an apartment in Fort Lauderdale (I recall posting links to photos of that apartment).
          * Dylan advertised that he was providing massages at his apartment.
          * Dylan’s rented apartment was within walking distance of Ft. L’s main leather bar.
          * Palm Beach is just a short distance away from Ft. L.
          * And that accounts of this double “murder/suicide” strike me as strange.

          Here’s the story:

          http://lgbtqnews.com/gaynews/florida-gay-activist-bar-owner-killed-by-ex-boyfriend-in-murder-suicide.aspx

          Florida gay activist, bar owner killed by ex-boyfriend in murder suicide
          Sunday March 23, 2008
          Source: Palm Beach Post, South Florida Sun Sentinel

          Michael BrownWEST PALM BEACH, Fla. — A prominent south Florida gay activist and bar owner was killed last week by his ex-boyfriend, police say, in what they’re calling a murder-suicide.

          Michael Brown, owner of HG Roosters, a bar that has been a gathering spot for the city’s gay community for more than two decades, was beaten and stabbed to death by a former boyfriend who was found dead in his apartment with him Friday evening, police have determined.

          On Saturday night scores of men and women packed HG Roosters, where candles flickered in front of a flower-decked shrine to the man they called “La La.” The bar fell silent in his honor as one after another spoke of the difference Brown had made in their lives.

          A memorial guest book set up for Brown by Palm Beach Post has attracted 30 messages of condolences from contributors who emphasize Brown’s warm friendship and generosity.

          Brown’s violent death was an unfitting end to a life characterized by friendship, leadership, a contagious sense of fun and great generosity, friends said.

          “Whatever happened up there had nothing to do with the life he lived,” Tim Carey, a friend of Brown’s, said Friday.

          Police were dispatched to Brown’s 3705 S. Flagler Drive condominium about 5 p.m. Friday because the affable bar owner had not shown up to work. They found a blood-spattered apartment in disarray and Brown’s body in the bedroom. Brown, 50, died of blunt trauma to the head and multiple stab wounds, an autopsy showed.

          The body of Brant Hines, 27, hung from a strap hung over the closed bedroom door.

          HG Roosters bar workers called Michael Brown’s home several times on Thursday, police said, but Hines told them Brown wasn’t available. Bar workers called police on Friday after Brown again didn’t show up at the bar and calls to the apartment were not answered.

          On Thursday Hines had a black eye when he opened the door of Brown’s apartment to a neighbor who had lost a key to another apartment. Hines also was seen walking Brown’s two dogs that day.

          Police believe Brant hanged himself Thursday night or Friday morning. He did not leave a suicide note, but had logged off an Internet social networking account that investigators are trying access.

          “Apparently they had an on-again, off-again relationship. It was somewhat of a volatile relationship even when it was on,” police Lt. Chuck Reed said. “We believe it was the result of a violent domestic disturbance.”

          Hines is originally from New Jersey and appears to have moved to Palm Beach County in 2003, according to court records.

          He was arrested several times on misdemeanor offenses, including writing a bad check, driving without a valid license and failing to appear in court.

          Arrest records show previous addresses in Delray Beach, West Palm Beach and Brown’s Flagler Drive apartment.

          Brown grew up in a quarter-horse community in Mansfield, Ohio, and moved to Florida about 24 years ago after visiting a friend, said his sister, Becky Peters.

          She knew Hines and said he used her brother for money and shelter.

          When she confronted her brother about this, he said: “I wouldn’t put a homeless dog out in the street and I certainly wouldn’t do it to a person,” Peters said.

          “He was the person who made everyone feel like they were related,” said Tony Plakas, a longtime friend.

          Brown was a fixture at his West Palm Beach bar, which has been around for more than two decades and is a relaxed place dubbed “the gay Cheers.” He made the bar where he started pouring drinks in the late 1980s a place where customers could feel at home, and a setting for rousing charitable events.

          “He was somebody who connected everybody in Palm Beach County,” Plakas said.

          The guy is somebody who everybody would think was family.”

          Plakas, who used to run Compass, the Gay and Lesbian Community Center of the Palm Beaches, said it wouldn’t have existed if not for Brown.

          With Monday night bingo games and other events at his bar, Brown raised hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years for causes such as Toys for Tots and Compass.

          “He was an icon in this community,” Compass Executive Director Scott Fox said.

          In October, he was honored with the Comprehensive AIDS Program’s Fundraiser Extraordinaire Award.

          Brown was a grand marshal of the gay pride parade in West Palm Beach in 1997.

          “That person lived more for other people,” Carey said.

          “It’s going to be tough to find another community leader because he led with his heart. What a ball of warmth.”

          It was his generosity that led to his death, Brown’s sister said.

          “He was a good person and he had a big heart and a big heart is inevitably what cost his life,” Peters said.

          Brown also traveled the country in his volunteer work supporting the Names Project AIDS Memorial Quilt, for which he was a board member of the South Florida chapter.

          Brown inherited the bar that has stood at 823 Belvedere Road since 1984 from its previous owner, Bill Cappozzi, who knew that Brown would carry on the bar’s legacy, friends said.

          “It wasn’t about a moneymaking venue; it was about making sure that gay people had a place to go and feel comfortable,” Carey said.

          • CDinDC
            10/21/2009 at 6:00 PM

            I just don’t get the connection, John.

            Yes, Dylan is gay. Yes, Dylan has lived in Florida. Yes, Dylan goes to gay bars. Yes, Dylan uses knives. But what else is there, that would connect Dylan to that murder? Or ANYONE to that murder?

            You’ll have to come up with something a lot more convincing to make think Dylan had anything at all to do with that murder/suicide.

            • John Grisham
              10/22/2009 at 7:36 PM

              The question I would ask is this: How many gay people have been raped and stabed to death while within a couple hundred miles of Dylan in the past five years? I would reckon the number is relatively small, but certainly starts at one.

          • AnnaZed
            10/21/2009 at 6:09 PM

            Sorry John from my reading of the coverage of that incident it looks like what the authorities are saying it was: a murder/suicide (complete with the perpetrator and supposed subsequent suicide walking the dog after the victim was dead) more along the lines of Joe Orton’s death than anything that we are looking at here.

            • AnnaZed
              10/21/2009 at 6:10 PM

              I think I should have said “presumed subsequent suicide.”

              • Clio
                10/21/2009 at 7:30 PM

                John, I agree with CD and AZ. What are the comparisons with and relationships to the Wone case here? I do not discern them at first glance.

                Furthermore, even though nearly all of us may see Dylan as a complete loser, his own self-image as trickster would dictate a certain perverse snobbery in the victims who he may target. Bar owners and their (drifter) lovers may not be high on Mr. Ward’s potential list of prey, I am afraid.

                • John Grisham
                  10/22/2009 at 7:15 PM

                  Clio, AnnaZed and others, I am not saying at this point that Dylan did it. I’m only saying it would be worthwhile for authorities to look into other gay stabbing murders within a couple hundred miles of Dylan’s known proximity throughout his recent history. Especially those gay knife murders that are kind of extraordionary, such as double murder/ suicides.

            • John Grisham
              10/22/2009 at 7:28 PM

              For argument’s sake (and I’ve yet to claim that Dylan actually did this), is the thought of a doped up dude walking the dog of his housemate/ partner/ after he was told by the trick they brought home the other night that Brown was still passed out and sleeping , , , any less bizaar than what happened at 1509 Swann?

              • Clio
                10/23/2009 at 1:01 AM

                That is strange, but the Wone case is much stranger because of the ongoing conspiracy.

                Even if the Wone case and this Michael Brown case are apples and oranges, Dylan’s travels, though, do need to be traced and retraced to make sure that he is not a serial killer. I trust that the police in
                New York State (Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park), Massachusetts (Simmons College), DC, Italy (summer trips), Thailand, and southern Florida have all been alerted.

      • David
        10/21/2009 at 11:49 AM

        John,

        Jumping on Clio’s request for more information, I am asking for clarification. Are you just being colorful when you say “giving massages to the S&M community” or did he have a concerted marketing campaign aimed at the BDSM crowd (i.e. ads in gay publications targeting our BDSM friends)?

        David

      • AnnaZed
        10/21/2009 at 12:29 PM

        Wow John, I did not see that, but would be interested in a link (sorry for my sloppy reading habits).

        That brings me to another thought that we haven’t really touched on on this blog, well except for you John: the reality that a murder or murderers walk free now and the idea that a sexual sadist murderer or murderers (which this murderer or murderers meet every definition of being) is generally depicted as being driven by urges that pretty much guarantee repeat offense.

        One of the scenarios that I entertain when thinking of the night of Robert’s death is the simple one, that Dylan acted alone and that Joe (though obviously an asshole) was in fact upstairs with Victor as both he and Victor said they were. Under this view of events Dylan is unbalanced, crazed from street drug use mixed with prescription psychotropics and alcohol, and is additionally a garden variety criminal and homicidal sex offender. The reasons for Victor and Joe’s allegiance to him if this is the case I simply can not fathom, but as a possible explanation of the crime it must be considered.

        Then, as John points out the authorities should look very closely at all of Dylan’s roosting places for all of his adult life (including, or maybe especially overseas) for similar crimes. In fact the paths of each defendant should be so examined I guess. I do wish that the FBI was involved in this case.

        It is a law enforcement, crime fiction and popular culture trope that the unrestrained sexual sadist murderer can not control himself or herself and is driven to murder again and again until caught. This particular murder with its unseemly sexual components would certainly be the work of such a criminal. Aunt Marcia and other enablers (if they exist) should think long and hard about this aspect of the matter. This was not and can not have been I don’t think a consensual situation that escalated to an accidental (whoops I killed him) death. This seems to me now to have been a calculated act and maybe the act of someone familiar with the mechanics of such a crime, someone who acts brutally and quickly, someone who is prepared with needed tools (drugs, tools for sex abuse, weapons), someone who can act equally quickly to rearrange the scene and create confusion.

        Maybe Joe’s obvious concern about Dylan the morning after Robert’s death (was he still being held? was he being still questioned? did he have a lawyer?) speaks to knowledge on his part of just what kind of animal Dylan actually is; though again I can not imagine why Joe and Victor would cover for him if that is the case.

  9. Perplexed
    10/24/2009 at 8:21 PM

    If everything was done outside then it would make sense that there would be no bloody bedding or towels to stash, etc…They would have dried him off with towels that would have been barely bloody (maybe could have tossed those, but it wouldn’t have been much) and layed him on the bed.

    Also, something that keeps being repeated is making me think he was definitely washed off after, either shower or hosed. The “gaping” wounds….knifing someone in and of itself is not going to leave a gaping wound. But have you ever noticed when you had a wound and you really washed it out deluging it with water, it actually opens the wound up rather than closes it…

  10. jim kahn
    05/26/2010 at 9:36 AM

    Two questions:

    If Robert was showered/hosed off after being stabbed, wouldn’t the ME have found water in the wounds?

    If the Erostek device is used post-mortem, will ejaculation still occur?

    I have a dozen more point/questions if interested.

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