Is Razi Ramping Up Evidence on Defendants’ Sexual Histories?
Hitting the Superior Court clerk’s office on the same day as the Defense Preliminary List of Fact Witnesses for the October Robert Wone wrongful death case, was the companion filing from the Plaintiff. Submitted by Katherine Wone’s lead counsel, Covington’s Ben Razi, the list runs 36 names.
Like the defense list, Razi’s includes quite a few of the investigators and principals from the obstruction and conspiracy case.
From the MPD: Detectives Alemain, Kasul, Lancaster, Lewis, Russell-Brown, Waid, Wagner and Wagner. Familiar names from the summer trial also include DC Deputy Medical Examiner Dr. Lois Goslinoski, GW Hospital ER Nurse Leah Lujan, EMTs Weaver and Baker, former roommate of the defendants Sarah Morgan and two of Robert’s close friends, Tara Ragone and Jason Torchinsky
All three defendants are listed as well as Katherine Wone and Bill and Aimee Won, Robert’s parents.
There are two other names in this alphabetical list that may indictate how Covington and co-counsel Patrick Regan expect to conduct this case – and that may be by putting the sexual histories of one or more of the defendants squarely in front of the jury.
Although considered tame in some circles, the links and pics that follow are possibly NSFW.
Number 15 on the list is someone by the name of Hassan Maher, of San Antonio, Texas. Mr. Maher’s email address was also included on the list by we chose to redact that for the purposes of this post, much like we deleted other information for privacy reasons on the defense list.
If one is to take Mr. Hassan’s email address and just do a simple Google search, it appears a certain adult-oriented website surfaces in the results, an xtube.com page . That page’s user says his turn ons include, “Into a lot of things and open to experience and trying new things as long as both/all parties are turned on.”
There’s nothing else on Mr. Maher’s entry on the witness list to indicate his relationship, if one indeed exists, with either Joe Price, Dylan Ward or Victor Zaborsky.
Number 20 on the list is Jacob Pring of Washington, DC. According to a Google search, Mr. Pring operates, “An event production company that works closely with the LGBT community.”
One of Mr. Pring’s clients includes CODE. From his website page featuring photos from one of the monthly CODE events, it appears the crowd is into “Leather, Rubber/Latex, Uniforms, Skinheads, Sportsgear.”
Justice is blind, too.
Other event photos may indicate Covington’s interest in Mr. Pring’s business and how it may relate to the defendants.
Several CODE attendees seen in photos on Mr. Pring’s very public website are sporting S&M gear that is reminiscent of the paraphernalia that MPD officers recovered from 1509 Swann in execution of the August 2006 search warrants:
Leather gear, hoods, harnesses, chains, restraints and mouth gags. Some attendees appear to be simulating (?) sexual acts as well as some engaging in scene play, hot wax being poured on party-goers and one gentleman dressed in little more than a harness, leather jockstrap, collar and wrist restraints being struck on the butt.
No value judgments here – just a look at what’s publicly available from the Court documents and common search engines. The CODE crowd looks to be having a fun, consentual, and scantily-clad, good time. If Mr. Pring can be criticized for anything, it’s crappy exposures on dozens of CODE party photographs.
Photo: CODEDC Website
The US Attorney’s Office for DC tried for years to get elements of the sexual histories (including what some would consider the more extreme variants of S&M), of defendants Joseph Price and Dylan Ward, introduced as evidence in trial.
Their efforts were stymied by Judge Lynn Leibovitz during the summer proceedings and were perhaps viewed as too prejudicial to the defense.
That decision was made with jurors’ considerations and deliberations in mind, long before the three defendants waived a trial by jury and put their fates solely in the into the hands of Leibovitz.
Maybe Razi and Covington have taken a page out of the Government’s playbook and hope to succeed in the relatively looser civil court setting, where AUSAs Kirschner, Martin and Leiber came up short in the criminal arena.
And for those curious about the CODE affairs, there’s one this Friday evening, February 25, Crucible, 1816 Half Street, SW in Washington.
When: Fri, February 25, 10pm – Sat, February 26, 3am
Where: 1816 Half St SW, Washington DC 20003 (The Crucible)
Description: It’s the CODE you love, but Anything Goes! Fully equipped dungeon space, including sling room, orgy room, and private playrooms. FULL LIQUOR SERVICE. Music by resident DJs Bryan Yamasaki and Erik Lars Evans.
And the CODEDC website’s BUZZ page, some party-goers’ comments on previous affairs:
“CODE was awesome! There were some seriously twisted puppies there last night … we will for sure be back. Wall to wall gear – hard play – hot guys.”
“At one point in the demo, when I was on top of Matt and wrapping several layers of duct tape around his head, I heard an audience member suddenly yell out “OH FUCK!”. I turned and saw him with his mouth open, in lusty wonder at the vision I had provided. Could you blame him? I was rock hard too!”
Plaintiff’s Preliminary Witness List
Just in the servicey service of providing information to those who thought better of following a NSFW link, Mr. Hassan Maher does say on his xtube page that he finds blood & scat to be a turn-off.
What a relief that that is, AZ! Yet Hassan’s ad for gentleman callers does beg the following questions: Why would someone in San Antonio, Texas be linked to this case? Was he a tourist caught in Mr. Hixson’s orbit? What ever happened to good taste in personal advertisements? When did we all become so coarse and so voracious?
At least, the dear had the good sense not to put up a head shot.
“…had the good sense to put up a head shot.”
That’s what he said.
Hmm….so these two fellows are witnesses for the Plaintiff? Perhaps we’ll get a peek into Joe/Dylan’s predilections afterall.
It’s good to see that Covington is digging a bit deeper than explaining what the sex toys were used for – of course we’re all assuming that Mr. Pring will testify that one/more of the defendants (guess who) were participants of the CODE venue. Is it possible that with Mr. Maher they’ve found a participant in a threesome? Texas is a long way away but was he in DC on business and saw (and liked) the Alt.com listing?
It would be to much to hope that they testify that the Swann Streeters had been asked to stay away. No one in the community will put up with players who won’t play safe. Yes, entirely too much to hope for.
Fascinating, Carolina, so in a possible scenario, our boys got way too frisky and creepy, even for CODE devotees, who may have banished them to enact their terrible tableaux somewhere else — the Lee Street dump, perhaps? Or, even at that dump, no one wanted to play their extreme way. So, they had to seize any opportunity for dangerous mayhem and mischief that crossed their paths, and Robert’s visit just happened to be on Joe’s hyper-hedonistic radar screen?
Why is no one thinking Mr. Wone is on the downlow? How often do you hear of a straight man hanging out at the home of three or four gay guys without his wife and even staying over for the night? Maybe one gay guy but not three or four.
1) Robert’s happy marriage has been discussed a gazillion times.
2) I know MANY straight and gay people that have very close friends with different sexual proclivities. Unless you live in a hollow up in the hills somewhere, it’s not unusual. At all.
No, I do notlive in a hollow but I did live in West Hollywood which is virtually all gay and i do know they have straight friends. What I do not accept is a straight man spending the night with three or four gay men. It just isn’t going to happen. What others do is of no concern to me. I just know it goes against basic common sense to think he would be hanging out overnight with four gay men and no other straight guys around.
Linda,
We just have to agree to disagree.
“…What I do not accept…”
Paging, Dr. Freud on level 3 … paging …
Hi Linda,
I read all your posts and they were good. Many people on this site have posited the theories you have. I read what CD wrote and she is right about the general consensus on his marriage and heterosexuality but I believe it is possible that he might have been on the down low. Maybe not probabable but possible.
But whether he was or wasn’t, etc., he was murdered. And that’s the bottom line. Also, I agree with CD that it’s not really that unusual re a straight person staying overnight in a household with friends who are not straight. But maybe it would be in a small conservative town.
Probable (above)!
I think if anyone truly reads about Robert Wone you’ll come to believe that he was incapable of cheating or having any kind of relations outside of his marriage.
Whenever I hear that someone couldn’t possibly cheat because they’re “in a happy marriage” and “would never do that” – it’s almost a red flag. Obviously, many people with lifestyle secrets have been so described, including by those closest to them. I certainly don’t think you can rule it out.
So while I still think it’s a fair question, I also think that if Wone was accidently killed in a sex game he had voluntarily participated in – the defendants would have used that as part of their defense.
I do still also think he was at least slightly unusual for Wone to have spent the night there. Not because they were gay, but because they were all professional adults, and they apparently had never slept over each others houses before. I mean, when you’re in college, or early 20s, you might crash anywhere – but once you’re a married professional adult, it would be very unusual to stay at another house, without your wife, when your own home is within regular commuting distance – unless perhaps if these were close “old friends” that did this kind of thing all the time as a kind of social event, and you’re reliving your youth for fun or something (i.e., stay up late drinking, smoking weed, passing out on a sofa). But I don’t think it was that kind of relationship.
“when your own home is within regular commuting distance”
The idea of “regular” changes with the time. An easy commute at 5 p.m. is quite different from 10 p.m. Robert Wone attended an after-work meeting and then had a meet-up scheduled to become acquainted with people who worked the night shift. Going home late at night meant less frequent transportation. Further, his wife was not in good health at the time and his late arrival at the station would have had her stay up late or even get out of bed to drive to pick him up.
Having lived in DC at one time and in the DC suburbs at another time, I know plenty of occasions over the years where gay and straight people slept over with their friends to avoid late night travel.
For well-paid professionals,I can see staying in a hotel, or even with an old friend you have that level of comfortable familiarity with – but this is the first time Wone ever did this (that we know of.)
Just one perception.
And from my perspective, living in NYC and Boston (But not D.C.), crashing at a casual friends place is a totally normal occurence in your 20s, but pretty much stops immeidately once you’re married, in your 30s, and making some money.
Oh, come on. Well-paid professions don’t necessarily want to plink down $200 for a night at a DC hotel.
I sure as hell wouldn’t. Especially if I could crash at a friend’s place. And yes, I’m older than 30 and would have an issue staying at the home of a person of differing sexual orientation.
And I can say schleping home the distance Robert lived is a chore late at night. I live 17 miles out of the city. And I WON’T ride the metro that late.
Would NOT have an issue, that is.
So, mw, if I tell you that I’m in a happy marriage and
“couldn’t possibly cheat” and “would never do that,” are you going to say I’m a liar and that I probably have “lifestyle secrets?” Of course not. So why it is so improbable that Robert Wone was a truly honorable man and was TRULY in a happy marriage and TRULY would never cheat?
Its not remotely improbable – in fact, it’s more likely than not….it’s just not 100% guaranteed, and in a case as bizare as this one, it’s one fact that would make everything make a lot more sense.
And the strangeness to me has nothing to do with orientation, I could care less about that – it’s just that these guys didn’t seem super close. If Wone was always staying over there after work, both before and after his marriage, I’d think nothing of it. But spending the night at a friend’s house when you’ve never done so is a pretty big friendship-level-jump.
Maybe.
Maybe not.
By the way, I spent the night at a friend’s house once. At it was the first time. We didn’t sleep together.
Linda, if this had happened in Danville, Virginia, for example, the Confederacy’s last capitol, then it would have been unusual for a straight man to stay over at a gay household. The Wone murder did not happen in Danville, but near DuPont Circle in the liberating air of the District, which is, ironically, the last colony without federal representation because of its (actual) liberal politics and (perceived by Southern conservatives of both parties) libertine culture.
First of all, i live in DC Metro area, not Danville. I have been a big city girl for a very long time living in Los Angeles, Tampa and i have traveled to 14 countries so i am not a naive little chick. Robert Wone had to have been on the downlow and was caught up in something that rapidly got over his head and cost him his life.
Linda, do you have gay friends? Or straight friends, if you are gay?
Hi Linda, while I would dispute had to have been I might concede may well have been.
That said, nothing about any sexual liaison (however specialized) can be regarded as an invitation to be murdered.
This theory is like a fly in the room. You can swat at it and chase it around trying to kill it or you can wait a few days and it dies on its own.
Um, I’m an over-30 (well, over at least a decade more than that, actually) employed professional straight woman who spent last Saturday night in the guest room of a gay couple in NW. We had enjoyed a lovely dinner with friends and I was going to an event in the morning with one of my hosts. I don’t even live 17 miles out; I live in SE DC without a car and didn’t need the stress of late-night public transpo or a costly cab just to sleep and return. It happens. Nothing sinister. Even to grown-ups.
Safety, saving money, convenience, convivial hosts, an available guest room — quite simple reasons, really.
I’m a little amused at the notion of springing $200 for a hotel room when a free room is available, for the sake of appearances, regardless of how well-employed one is.
And more germane to Robert Wone, he asked Joe and a female friend if he could stay that night, if I recall? Joe just responded first.
I have to say that I can see the reasoning in arguments going either way. RW stayed not on a Saturday but on a weekday and not with a couple but a trouple.
Then again JP was a college friend and a close one by all accts. JP hosted RW’s 30th b-day party and and he knew JP since he was in his late teens. Diff. people do things differently. The consensus among his friends and famil y is that it was not unusual and he was happily married.
Anyway you look at it, he was a hardworking husband in a good marriage with a solid career ahead of him and that was stolen from him the night he was murdered at 1509 Swann.
@Susan,
The “trouple” status was unknown to anyone at the time of Robert’s death. It became public knowledge as a result of Robert’s death.
So, to the average onlooker, Dylan was a roommate.
This again? Linda, “had to have been on the down low” is too much, don’t you think? I realize it’s tough to have an opinion when most disagree but clearly he didn’t HAVE to be on the down low. Personally, I think it’s reasonable behavior to stay over since he shared a car with his wife, was meeting the night staff, he and Joe were having a breakfast meeting, and he’d asked a female friend if he could sleep at her place too.
I like a nice hotel but too I like to catch up with friends and I’ve stayed over in the same city I lived in (L.A. and D.C. to name two). The host’s sexuality didn’t cross my mind. I suspect that he had no idea what stuff Joe and Dylan were into (and may have thought Joe and Victor were indeed a regular, boring couple as they held themselves out to be). He certainly didn’t know there was a chance he’d be murdered.
Also, Robert was a notorious multi-tasker. Catching up with a good friend while discussing a bit of business sounds pretty reasonable to me.
It’s totally reasonable, but do you know what else is reasonable – not killing your apprently close friend who is staying over your house. We’re well past the point of people acting normally here, and nothing has been solved.
All some are doing is raising the possibility that more than one, or two, or even three people acted unusually that night.
What town would that be?
I think a lot of the regulars on the site need to understand that asking questions about Wone’s motives and reasons for being there that night is not necessarily homophobic or anti-gay. The case is unsolved. Closing the door on the possibility of a lifestyle that millions have (an many of them in secret), is short-sighted. The hostility one gets when they raise this subject here is telling. One reason (probably THE reason) cases in general remain unsolved is people’s closed-mindedness, people refusing to consider certain possibilities.
Not unreasonable at all. To further the discussion along from he must have been on the dl I will add that what screams assault rather than consent to me is the presence of the many needle puncture marks on Robert’s person, the shockingly short time-line and (of course) all of the lying.
mw,
I don’t think any of “the regulars” said anything about homophobia or anti-gay. Perhaps “being sheltered” may have been intimated, but certainly not the former.
re hostility….that’s how you choose to read the postings. No hostility here. I just don’t agree with you. Simple as that.
My opinions about Robert’s sexual orientation are based on his reputation as an incredibly fine genteman that was in love with his wife, and the fact that not everyone cheats. And that spending the night at a friend’s house isn’t a good enough reason to change my mind.
Linda, I am in Los Angeles and I have many progressive male friends, who are not homophobic and have gay friends, and I asked all of them if they would sleep at a house with three gay guys and they all emphatically said NO! Doesn’t mean that all men would say no, but it was an eye opener for me.
I go back and forth between Robert being on the dl and him being an innocent victim. My reasons for thinking he could have been a willing participant are:
1. Victor not going down to speak to Rob. Was Victor mad at Robert for some reason? Did Robert do something to upset Victor? Or was he about to do something that was upsetting to Victor?
2. It could explain how things jumped off so quickly.
3. Kathy Wone had hip surgery. Studies show that men cheat most when they aren’t getting sex at home or the wife is pregnant.
4. Robert and Joe being buddies from college. College is a time when people experiment sexually, something could have started back then.
I think this argument about if Robert was willing, the guys would throw him under the bus is not valid. I think the story works best this way. Because in this version, they are nice all-American boys who are completely innocent. To say that something was going on is to break from that illusion and admit to something.
Anyway, I think that cop that said something about the straight guy staying with the gay guys and coming to Jesus tonight, hit the nail on the head. He may not be articulate, but I think he was headed in the right direction. I think this was a planned thrill kill killing. However, like Leopold and Loeb’s victim, Robert could have been completely innocent.
Interesting thoughts, Christy. The final thought is what stand out most to me. The “thrill kill” theory.
Rape is always, and murder is often a crime of opportunity. Supply the circumstances and these crimes can take place.
I’ve often thought Robert was the proverbial lamb to the slaughter.
Someone in that house that night had a plan.
(Re Victor, I think he was just PISSED OFF at Joe for not disclosing his over-night guest plans with him in advance. He found out from Dylan well into the evening. I’d been pissed off too.)
Mr. Zaborsky, I discern, was probably angry when she boarded the plane in Denver. Who leaves a professional junket early unless one has received bad news from home!
…I go back and forth between Robert being on the dl and him being an innocent victim.
Really?
You see these things as being mutually exclusive do you?
I would give you the benefit of the doubt and wonder if this is merely poor phrasing on your part but you repeat this in your closing Leopold and Loeb remark so I am forced to assume that that is in fact your abhorrent and ignorant opinion. Unlike my friend CDinDC I do not find your “theories” interesting. To the contrary, the basis for your opinions fills me with disgust.
It can not be said enough that there are no circumstances whatsoever under which Robert can not be considered wholly innocent and not complicit in his own violent death.
As to this: “…Studies show that men cheat most when they aren’t getting sex at home or the wife is pregnant.”
Again really (?), (do say) what studies would those be exactly?
[Wisdom gleaned from Googling “yahoo answers” will not reproduce the result of “studies,” neither is repeating what your Mama told you.]
So, let me see, under your rubric Robert’s death is not only Robert’s fault but Kathy’s as well. Boy am I glad that I don’t count myself among your “progressive” friends.
In closing: I am actually in the camp of those willing to consider that Robert might have had a sexual interest in someone in that house.
My sentiments exactlly AnnaZed. When I read …”I go back and forth between Robert being on the dl and him being an innocent victim.” I became angry. Robert was a victim. This week is National Crime Victim’s Rights Week,http://www.ncvrw.org/.Being a victim of a crime, like too many of us, I cringe when I see comments like Christy’s. It is a damn shame that people can not or will not treat others with compassion.
Interesting, christy, but may have Joe and/or Dyl misinterpreted Robert’s agreeing to stay over as a green light for a tryst? In this scenario, this misinterpretation ironically mirrored Sgt. Wagner’s gaffe, explaining Joe’s anger at the “coming to Jesus” rhetoric.
Now, if Joe and Dyl had just “done” Mr. Hixson — both separately and together, why would it be necessary to “sacrifice” Robert?
I am not blaming Robert or Kathy at all. Whatever happened that night, I do not believe that he wanted to be paralyzed and killed. I think the guys did see an opportunity for murder/excitement and took it. Clio, maybe they were insatiable. I knew I was going to get shit for that “studies show” comment. But I stand by it.
Christy:
Somewhat with you on #1 and more so on #4.
As to #1, consider also whether Victor might have known something was planned, with or without Robert’s knowledge and was essentially washing his hands of it all by staying upstairs, most likely not expecting murder to be an ultimate result. Robert’s visit may have upset an already delicate equilibrium in the household — perhaps Joe had feelings for Robert and Victor knew, perhaps there was some sort of history (pursuant to your #4), perhaps Dylan was the one interested, on his own or in addition to Joe. But if Victor was really mad and not on board, why wouldn’t he have either warned Robert, if Robert was in the dark, or stepped in and told Robert to go home to Kathy, if Robert was willing?
Also as to #4, if there was a history, perhaps a past experiment or relationship, it might lower the threshold for a recurrence, an attempted pass or even an assualt (“hey, you liked this back at W&M …”). Or stories or hints from Joe, true or false, of a past encounter with Robert or possible interest on Robert’s part, might have put ideas in Dylan’s head. It’s not unusual for straight guys to lie or exaggerate about past conquests and don’t see why the same couldn’t be true for gay guys. I suppose this may support, in a fashion, your #2, with regards to speed of events.
As for #3, regardless of the accuracy of the general statement, the character evidence gets in the way for me — I can’t see Robert cheating on Kathy while she was recuperating. If anything, he’d probably be even more devoted. Not making her drag herself to the isolated Vienna Metro late at night seems to fit, from that perspective (though I realize others may say the opposite — that he should have rushed back to her side).
I do think it is a bigger leap to the thrill kill theory, unless there was real animosity or depraved indifference towards Robert on the part of one or more of the three. Was he that much of a threat to the trouple dynamic? When Hixson and the other tricks were not? Though I have theorized that there had to be some very hostile feelings behind that wound through the sternum. Is it more likely that Robert had a non-sexual beef with one of the three, maybe thought one of them was not worthy of his friend Joe, and that person, feeling threatened, took action to get rid of Robert, indulging in some kink in the process?
I think the biggest quibble with your post is the use of the word “innocent” — whether or not Robert was gulity of cheating, he did not consent or deserve to be murdered. I’m sure Kathy, as a devout Christian, would have forgiven Robert for any transgressions, but the murder robbed her of that opportunity, if that was the case. Though I’m pretty sure she is confident, like many of us here, having know him better than any of us (many of whom never knew him at all) that he remained faithful.
As I was reading these posts I was thinking (again) how odd it was for VZ to cut short his trip, half unpack when he got home (by his own testimony) and run to the gym to catch JP and then miss him and only stay half an hour, then later burn the steaks, find out last minute that RW was staying the night and then retire to bed early, where he found JP had canceled cable access to one of his favorite shows.
I’m also reminded that RW didn’t drink or smoke and was generally known as a straight shooter. I’m reminded how LD and JP were trolling for a third and wonder if manipulating this squeaky clean person (RW) might have held some appeal for them.
Then again, JP knew RW for ages and they were good friends and it wouldn’t seem that RW was his type when looking at his alt.com ad so maybe that last theory is a wash. I would think in a way that RW would be kind of considered too dull for the type of extreme interests held by at least two of the trouple.
Susan:
I’d speculate that there was a double whammy for Victor.
First he learns (from Sarah?) that something is afoot in his absence and rushes home to confront Joe.
Second, he learns only later, from Dylan, who is making the guest bed, that Robert is to be a guest and he puts two and two together, making either four or five — either that there is yet another plan about which he was not told, or worse, that Robert, with or without Robert’s knowledge, was the object of the original plans. Whether or not he came to the correct conclusion, this second blow would have been the one to put him over the edge.
Hoya,
It is possible that VZ snapped. I just wonder if it weren’t for the kids if VZ would have put up with so much for so long.
And Sarah, I sure hope she shares how often she left her home mid-week at 6pm, sans change of clothes, to spend the night with local friends. And what she knows about games played in that house.
Susan:
Didn’t mean here to imply VZ did it, just that the secondthing is what really made him mad that night.
That Half St. address sounds familiar. I think it used to be a gay dance bar a few decades ago.
The Other Side, Ziegfields and the Follies were all at the Half and O Street intersection (where Crucible is today).
I wonder if the city placed an historical marker or plaque there to inform citizens of its rich LGBT legacy.
A girl could really use a Madonna-thon or a Back Tracks about now. I “came” of age in that ‘hood — fabulous times from what I can recall.
Editors, can anyone cover this social event of the season for the weblog? For any playful affair, I personally would prefer, say, Dionne Warwick and a live orchestra to two unknown disc jockeys, but the cocktails at Crucible should relieve any frisson of inevitable disappointment.
In case anyone didn’t get their fill of pics from Mr. uh, Hassan and the CODE page, there’s Mr. Pring’s Facebook page and Next Magazine to consider:
http://www.nextmagazine.com/shotinthedark
http://www.facebook.com/jacobpringevents
Looks like Mr. P is a major organizer and comes in contact with many people from a variety of events. Hopefully he will be able to serve as a helpful witness in this case.
Yes, Susan, it’s Jacob Nathaniel Pring to the rescue! Why am I suddenly so giddy? Go figure!
Editors, have you examined Code’s Sponsors page yet? If so, have you read the chilling blurb for a vehicle called Instigator Magazine?
Those words and images keep on ricocheting, don’t they, Dyl?
the connection with Texas such a conservative state
Texas is the ancestral home of the Brothers Price.
If only they could sell tickets to this trial; they’d clear enough to cover counsel costs.
Well, Boo, perhaps a fundraiser at the Crucible could also help Joe and Victor to keep their Miami Shores homestead. A kissing or dunking booth(s) could do the trick!
Now you’ve done it: All flights to DCA from PBI and FLL on 2/25 are fully booked; all attending DJs Bryan Yamasaki’s and Erik Lars Evans’ performances at the Crucible. Alas, another time.
Boo, I can remember a time when The Crucible referred to a Arthur Miller play about the Salem witch trials, but this reincarnation seems to go back to a much, much earlier time, to the decadence of Julian the Apostate and late imperial Rome with $25 a ticket orgies and gratefully bad lighting. Will there be a doorman selecting svelte and shabby chic attendees a la Studio 54 in 1977? All that is missing may be the one-hit wonder from the Andrea True Connection being played over and over again in the background. More, more, more, indeed!
I saw “The Crucible” at Arena Stage in the last century. Maybe in the century to come, Arena Stage will feature “The Trouple,” a play based on the Swann Street murder trial.
I feel so naive. I had no idea that orgies were supposed to have DJs.
I had no idea that these parties were legal, apparently charging admission and openly serving liquor to men having public sex on the premises. This militant ribaldry would certainly not be tolerated in my Old Dominion and is certainly not of J. Edgar Hoover’s Washington, but, then again, in reference to Mr. Hoover, …
in reference to Mr. Hoover … perhaps this militant ribaldry is the genuine origin of the term “G-Men.”
yeah G-men origin. The slave /master stuff will all be played in court.
I know, I know, Bill O, I had no idea either.
Perhaps the DJs are a modern nod to the days of ancient Rome when such “do’ins” were accompanied by blinded musicians playing lyres and pan flutes, sans garments, of course.
Cheers and thanks for the smile.
Actually most of those pictures and most of the information concerning DJ’s pertains to the Code party that takes place at the Green Lantern Bar or atlest I think that is the case. There are two versions of code. There is the bar version and the play version. Jacob and a guy named David started the bar version and I assume they both started the sex party one too.
The bar version is just that a night at a bar with drinking and chatting once a month. They do have some instructive type demonstrations of various rotating topics. The bar version first started 3-4 (I think) years ago at that small bar on 9th street near Shaw that is closed now or exists as something else. When it closed they took the party to the Green Lantern. The sex party version I think was started a year or two ago and I imagine it is more intense. I have never been to either one of them.
I previously lived near the bar on 9th street and I remember the one night that they took over each month, you would see guys in various fetish outfits walking around the neighborhood. I think that bar was called BeBar and I think they called the upstairs the Motley Bar. I do have several friends that have been to Code at the old place on 9th St and the new place- the Green Lantern.
Based on what I hear it’s like a new school version of the Eagle. With the Eagle being traditional leather only and such and the new school being more fetish that younger guys like such as athletic stuff and rubber or latex outfits as opossed to traditional leather and 501 jeans. Most of the guys that I know that go to Code are into the athletic fetish stuff or military and nothing more (ie no bdsm) which is kind of mild in my view.
I have never been to Code- they have a very strict dress code hence the name (you need to wear a COMPLETE outfit of something to get in) and I’m just not that into it to buy entire outfits. I do no know anyone who has attended the Code events in SE at the Crucible which is the sex party orgy. I do know Jacob on an acquaintance type basis mostly from years ago and I can say that he is or at least was always a good decent person.
He had a regular downtown day job and he left it after he created Code because it was so sucessful. They also had a Code bar party in Philly for a while but I think it no longer exists.
@JM: Thanks for the report and background on CODE. We have no reason to think that Jacob is anything other than a stand-up guy.
I have to say though that I do not understand why Jacob is being called as a witness. The Code parties were all started after Robert’s death (I think, I would not swear this is the case). So I would assume and guess that the trouple would have been keeping a low profile and not going to parties at that point.
So I just do not know what knowledge or information Jacob could give. I do not know. Maybe they are calling him as an expert in BDSM or something like that?
I am a little bit familiar with Jacob and some parts of the trouple and I have to say that I just cannot see them hanging out and having any social interaction with each other. For a wide variety of reasons.
I cannot even imagine that they hooked up or anything like that but who knows. If they are calling Jacob as a witness I am sure they have their reasons. Perhaps they found his email when going through the trouple’s email or something. I guess time will tell but I am really puzzled at this point!
Thanks JM: We’re left to wonder what’s Jacob’s role will be as a witness. It’s safe to say he won’t be there as an expert; those witnesses fall under a seperate category.
I’m guessing that his name was pulled from defendants’ emails and he’ll be on the stand to talk about his possible pre-Code relationship/friendship with them. Agan, just a guess.
Carolina made a good point not too long ago….perhaps his testimony will reflect Joe and/or Dylan’s behavior at the Code parties. Maybe they didn’t play well with others.
And, perhaps, Mr. Maher as well as Mr. Pring may testify to the behavior of Joe and/or Dylan at either the Crucible, or at other “scene” locations.
Recall, though, that Joe’s alt dot bomb ad was still running AFTER Dyl’s stay in the Florida brig. So, with Dyl in Thailand and Florida, Joe may have still attended these sadomasochistic soirees well into 2009. Increasing weight and notoriety, though, may have forced him off the guest list.
This CODE phenomena just shows the inherent entrepreneurship and creativity of gay male cultures: Richard Florida was right after all!
Again, one should seek pleasure in moderation and with restraint, if not always with restraints, but no one should lay dead in a guest room. That’s just wrong!!
The idea of needing not one, but two DJs for an orgy seems bizarre. Is that something that’s expected at an orgy or just an example of the entrepreneurship of the two DJs? And what kind of music will they play? At a straight orgy, there’s no better way to get everyone in the mood than Jane Birkin and Serge Gainsbourg’s “Je t’aime.” For a gay orgy do they feature gay icons like Barbra Streisand singing “My Man,” Bette Midler singing “In the Mood,” and Judy Garland’s version of “The Man That Got Away?” Maybe they do an all Broadway segment starting with Carol Lawrence warbling “Tonight! Tonight, won’t be just any night,” Carol Channing singing “I Put My Hand In There,” followed up with “Shipoopi ” from “The Music Man.”
A little bird told me that the Crucible has a library — so, in between sets of Cher and Gaga, and after some tableaux tete-a-tetes on the setee, one can catch up on one’s Trollope and Proust. That is indeed a perfect set-up for a libertine Dylettante who hates TV!
A re-read of “Crime and Punishment” might be helpful perhaps? Or any other of the great Russians – something replete with guilt and angst?
LOL! Excellent choice, Kate.
Although given the absurdities put forth by the defense — if Joe and Dyl ever had entered the “rarefied” air of the Crucible — the magical realism of Marquez, etc. may have been an even more practical selection for them, given their current cultural contexts. Miami, here we come (literally, perhaps, even in our 40s)?
Can one of the lawyers clarify what exactly is meant by a “preliminary” witness list? I assume there’s some sort of process for formalizing it. What does it take to amend this list if something turns up later on? Can you just tack on a name, or do you have to meet some set of requirements to add more people?
The addition of Hassan Mahar and Jacob Pring to the list strikes me a major shot across the bow. Pring’s name means that they have access to an S&M party organizer (i.e., someone who’s got a long list of names), and Mahar’s name means they’re willing to out people if they have to. I don’t think it’s any accident that they picked someone from outside the DC area. I think it was an intentional move to minimize the damage to the person named.
Generally, the only thing a lawyer needs to add a person to a witness list is a good faith belief that the witness has personal knowledge of a relevant matter, and that the testimony will be admissible evidence.
What possible “damage” could there be, Bill O? Remember Senator Moynihan’s insight about dumbing deviancy down, and no one cares if they have been outed anymore, except maybe Barbara Mikulski, Oprah Winfrey, and Lindsay Graham.
If anything, this name-dropping will just boost The Crucible’s business as well as the eyeball traffic to X-rated personal ads on “the information superhighway.” Caveat emptor, though!
Hassan does seem to be a fun date, given his over 1,600 friends on his very own Xtube site. Why would someone who was/is that popular be tied up (perhaps literally) with Culuket and Sparkly Cat?
there is a possibility that the intruder was into S&M.
Yeah and just came upon the home the one night that Robert did and knew there may be S& M stuff on the premesis. Is that a gas mask on that guys face. Can’t wait for the trial–grab the popcorn.
Maybe the word intruder should be in quotes.
A dunking booth at the Crucible to raise money for defense, Clio, is a maavaalous idea! With Pring’s advertising abilities!!
I know — and, just think of the glamourous ambience of that venue! A drag bingo could follow the booth, topped by a rim seat showdown. No more car washes and bake sales for the trouple, no, siree!
Some fresh docs hit on Friday. Waiting to get the last of the three. Will try and post them around lunchtime.
Yes, I do have gay friends. My cousin, who is like a brother to me, is gay and I understand homosexuality but I do not understand S&M with any sexual orientation. Aside from that, being gay or on the downlow does not mean he deserved to be murdered. The whole point of mentioning that was it could go to motive not justification. So he spent the night with three or four gay men and they just all of a sudden decided to stab him to death? Come one. Something else was in play there.
“Something else was in play there.” Absolutely, Linda. But, IMO, it wasn’t something that involved Robert as a willing participant.
Just my opinion…..I believe Robert was a victim of unwanted sexual advances. He protested the advances and was killed as a result. Drugs and/or alcohol could have played a large part in this. A possibly intoxicated Swann St. resident decided to make an advance on Robert. Robert declined and/or resisted. The resident became angry (as rapists do) and forcible rape and murder occured.
If Robert had been a willing participant…why kill him?
And this has nothing to do with ANYONE’s sexual orientation. A rapist is a rapist.
Linda S.:
I’m usually one of the first to defend Robert (who can’t defend himself) against allegations that he was gay or on the down low and would have cheated on Kathy that night. I haven’t jumped in this time, because the overall context of your posts is to present this as a theory or possibility, which, troubling as it is, must be considered, or at least kept in mind.
The problem with the theory is twofold: there is no evidence of same sex activity of any sort on Robert’s part and based on evidence we do have, cheating on Kathy would be completely out of character for him. If someone came forward with testimony or evidence from earlier in Robert’s life, I’d be open to reconsidering. We don’t seem to know much about any prior romantic relationships at W&M, Penn Law or before he met Kathy. We do know, from his roommate Jason and others, that Kathy knocked his socks off and that she was his sole focus from the moment he met her.
I do agree with you that something else could have been in play and that the something else might have been sexual desire, but agree with AnnaZed and CD, probably not on Robert’s part. Also perhaps jealousy, sexual or otherwise on someone’s part.
Linda, the “something in play” may well have been something Robert knew nothing about. If you use as an analogy date rapes, where the rape victim has agreed to the date, the victim thought her date to be “acceptable” – it goes without saying that the unstated agreement is that consent is required before there is sex. My opinion is that Robert was there for a host of reasons having nothing to do with sex – meeting late shift staff, early meeting with Joe, one car, etc. I understand you see it differently but I can’t see how it matters, ultimately, even if he expected to have sex (FYI, there’s been no evidence that he knew of the arrangement with Dylan or of the “Alt.com” choices/gadgets – i.e. Joe’s “dark” side). If we say that he expected to arrive at 10:30 on a weeknight, have sex with one/more of the housemates, how does that change things? What “in play” about that makes a murder somehow more likely or reasonable?
Crime victims are crime victims – the days of “asking for” rape are long gone. My guess is that whatever was “in play” that night had little to do with Robert himself and he walked into something that was already spiraling out of control. But if not, if he’d planned to have sex, even do drugs and have sex, what is the relevance of that on him being murdered? I’m trying not to “sound” confrontational on this – just am looking for your thoughts about why this would matter.
When I said there was “somthing in play” I meant for it to be as to motive. Nothing more, nothing less.
Another reason for Robert to stay at Joe’s was that Robert and Joe had been friends for YEARS. They weren’t casual acquaintances.
“…Come one.[sic]…,” indeed.
Most certainly something else was in play and in my opinion that would be (initially) sexual predation (which is perpetrated by men on women, girls and other men at a rate of 1.3 attacks per hour every hour of every day and night all over the world) followed by homicidal crime (which is committed by both men and women at a rate of 35 homicides per hour every hour of every day and night all over the world). Why is this so outlandish or inconceivable? It happens (literally) every day.
The evidence of needle puncture marks on Roberts person along with the very short time-line in which the crime took place indicates swift predatory attack to me, not consent. It is my opinion that Dylan Ward (the dysfunctional outsider and drifting drug addled sex-worker) commited this crime and that for some crazy love reason Price sought to cover it up).
If you have anything to actually add to this conversation besides what you think must be because of your own prejudices then by all means, bring it on.
I am not by any means prejudiced. I just have a bloody opinion. Get over it.
As we all do. Sometimes they differ.
PS…no one said you are prejudiced. Get over it.
“If you have anything to actually add to this conversation besides what you think must be because of your own prejudices then by all means, bring it on.”
I believe the word “prejudices” is in the above text. I don’t care if he was asexual. He was murdered and it is obvious those three men are involved and sex had something to do with his murder whether it was voluntary or involuntary on his part.
Why is it that you use the word “believe” when you know something to be factual and you make unequivocal statements when you don’t know for certain?
Still waiting for you to bring something to the conversation besides your beliefs about how people behave (which are prejudices).
I think we all at times write what we “believe” on this site and maybe those are “prejudices” but then we are all guilty of them. We all see everything, including facts, etc., through our own filters. That said, Linda is entitled to her viewpoint. She posted on other topics as well and she is not single-themed as it seems Keith (think that was his name?) was and she is interested in seeing justice in this case as far as I can see.
Oh for the record I have plenty of prejudices, and I bring them without prevarication to the table. Still, I also like to think that I examine facts and even change my opinions based on what is available to us.
Hi AZ,
I think I myself will have to plead guilty to having first posted on this site without having read the facts available. You first posted in response to me telling me to read the WMRW 101 page and I appreciate it.
But no one is perfect and this is a blog and everyone has different standards, etc.
Hi Susan,
Linda’s generalization of gay/straight dynamics is offensive. I quote her: “What I do not accept is a straight man spending the night with three or four gay men.” I don’t know what universe she lives in where gays and straights can’t play nicely together without it turning in to an orgy, but it’s not a universe I’m familiar with (and I’ve been out in the gay community for over 30 years.
What happened on Swann Street that night has nothing to do with gay/straight dynamics and has everything to do with the psychodrama that existed in that house that night ONLY.
You can find it offensive all you want but it is what it is. When I asked my gay cousin, who is wealthy and travels in high society, if he and his gay friends ever had overnight gatherings with one straight guy his reply was “hell no!”
oh for pete sake…give it a rest. Everyone has a different opinion and various straight men will do various things. Doesn’t mean one person is right and the other person is wrong.
Boy, I just had this long follow up post which basically disappeared. Just as well. I’ll try to be brief.
I think Linda is basically just trying to figure out what happened as most people are on this site. She has theories like most of us do. Like it or not, others might have the same “down low” thought. Not because of where they live but because so many people know people who are or have been on the dl. And there is also the viewpoint that no one really knows the true nature of anyone, not parent, sister, spouse, etc. The world is filled with such stories: Witness “Old Friend.”
I’d say it’s unlikely that RW would have just one night away from his wife during their marriage to spend a sweltering weeknight after a full day of work for a rendezvous of some sort, and esp. because he asked his friend Lisa for accomodations, as well, but others might. Then again, others might get to feeling defensive because their viewpoint is not just rejected but derided.
Finally, whatever anyone believes re the above, it’s clear that R. Wone was defenselessly murdered. That’s my own bias and prejudice.
Hi, Linda! Sorry other people are biting your head off. The “down low” theory was batted around quite a bit in the past. There’s really not much going for it, other than the fact that he spent the night in the guest room at two gay friends’ house. My personal belief is that it’s still within the realm of possibility, but I think it’s unlikely, given that we haven’t heard about it already. The defense would have likely brought it up at trial if they could have.
I think the big thing that people forget about people on the “down low” is that it’s very hard to hide once people start looking for it, especially if you’re not around to get rid of the evidence. There’s porn on the computer, or a hidden porn stash at home or at work, or an unexpected cell phone or e-mail account.
Bill O, meant to mention that my son did get in to W&M. Also UVa, and he’s chosen the U. Sincerely hoping he’ll be as good a writer as you are.*
Congrats to your son!
Kudos, Cara’s son, but Glenn K.’s Washington and Lee is the best Virginia school, IMHO, despite his lackluster performance in Lynn’s courtroom!
From the ladies’ room at Ziegfield’s,
Clio
(He got a scholarship to W&L, Clio, but does not consider himself quite “gentlemanly” enough, perhaps, to accept the offer…more’s the pity!)
Back to topic, and thank you for the congrats. 🙂
Thanks Bill. I don’t know why other people think i feel RW had it coming when there is nothing farther from the truth. No matter why he was at the house and no matter his relationship to the others he did not deserve to die.
Where were Mr. Hixson and/or his mentioned intimate acquaintance that evening? Was that acquaintance Hassan doing his study of “Men of the Mid-Atlantic?”
Why did Uncle Michael skip class that night? Why was he interested in phlebotomy suddenly that summer? Did he stop by Swann unannounced to enliven Big Bro’s evening? If Robert was considered a distant friend by Victor and Dyl, why then did Victor, Dyl, AND Michael go to the funeral?
Even Thomas Mann would have had trouble trying to fit these side shows into the central narrative, but I still keep thinking that questioning of three supporting cast members — Scott, Sarah, and Michael — may be more productive than any additional scrutiny of the former trouple.
Clio, you forgot Louis Hinton–did he attend as well, or did he just leave that legacy.com memorial note re RW on 8/6/06? Wonder if he knew RW or what prompted that bit of “poetry.”
According to the records online, it was in April 2006 that MP called police re being assaulted by L. Hinton. LH had accused MP of stealing $ from him. Could MP have been back on drugs then. With the assault charge in April, RW’s murder in August, and MP’s break in of his brother’s home, 2006 seemed to be, unfortunately, a banner year of crimes in the lives of MP and JP.
To me, including Michael in the more likely narratives of that night answers more questions than it raises. He missed his first phlebotomy class ever because he ‘didn’t want to arrive late?’ –Yeah, ’cause he’s a shy and self-conscious kinda guy. If Joe and Dylan wanted to incapacitate Robert that night with drugs and injections, who better to call on? I don’t recall any indication that the two of them had any expertise in doing injections. Such a plan was likely, for Michael, an appealingly transgressive act. Possibly the kitchen door was opened as a signal to him of Robert’s presence and/or a way for him to enter the house without alerting Robert, upstairs and perhaps drugged by that time. (Assuming he had a key to the back gate.)
And with Michael removing incriminating evidence after things went wrong (again, most covertly done through the back door), that could have allowed the trouple some precious time to concoct their story. I don’t know how hospitals dispose of bloody sheets, etc. (incinerators?) but I seem to recall that Dylan had access to the hospital and –though it admittedly seems a bit far-fetched–I’ve occasionally wondered if he might have been able to slip in to dispose of some evidence at that hour without attracting attention. (At a hospital where I used to visit a friend, the nighttime access was in back by the loading dock.) And of course the later ‘robbery’ he perpetrated at Swann street would have served to support the ‘intruder’ theory.
I agree with you, Clio, and very much hope Covington calls on these three for some careful and thorough questioning.
All very plausible, Donna.
Can you refresh my memory on the Dylan/hospital connection?
Re injections, I want to point out that the injections were intramuscular. Not intravenous. Doesn’t take a phlebotomist to jab someone in the foot and press the syringe.
I have, however, thought Michael would have been an excellent source of syringes.
Though I don’t recall a Dylan/hospital connection, last year there was a mention of Michael having a hospital connection through his phlebotomy class. It was thought he would have a way to get rid of bloody sheets at the hospital. Maybe the same was said of Dylan but I missed that mention.
CD, if I recall correctly, sometime around the time of the trial reference was made to his phlebotomy lab being held at a hospital. He might have then gained some familiarity with the non-ward areas there (sorry!).
I tried searching for that information before I posted but haven’t been able to use the search function with any success (over 400 posts returned?). I hope the moderators can upgrade it or replace it with a better one; I’d be happy to donate to that end.
Ah, yes…Michael. You mistyped and said Dylan had hospital access, hence, my question. I think we’re on the same page now.
Thanks Donna.
CD, a Google advanced search was more productive. On Day 10: Updates, Craig’s post refers to Michael’s “rounds at St Mary’s as part of his phelbotomy training.”
Did Uncle Michael, a former butcher, ever pass his phlebotomy class? Since he fell off the wagon hard (reportedly) just after the murder, did he complete his course assignments at Montgomery?
Why would a jack-of-all-trades retail clerk take up phlebotomy? How likely would a brother share very particular sexual tastes with an older brother? The Kennedy brothers may have shared Marilyn Monroe, but even they stopped at whips and chains. Alas, these coincidences may not be coincidences after all.
Clio,
I wonder in that regard if they ever were part of the same s&m scene, including house events.
And I thought I read somewhere that he didn’t complete the course but it would be nice to know for sure.
It just makes no sense–he’s visiting in Silver Spring and the people he’s visiting don’t urge him to go to his class? Wouldn’t they think, hey, MP is engaging in a constructive activity and we should encourage him? As it’s been said before and before and before, too many oddities that night–including Victor rushing home, Sarah rushing from home, Robert staying at the home, Michael allegedly going home, and not to class.
Clio,
That is a good point. Why, of all things, phlebotomy. And did his drug addiction include shooting up? Donna H., good point re arriving late. Doesn’t seem like a shrinking flower and I imagine in a class that length and college level, students arrive late all the time. I guess the thing to do would be to check with the instructor–were students welcome to arrive at any time? Did she have a strict policy on that? I’d think not re the latter since this is college not HS and people are paying, etc.
Susan,
Regarding people are paying for college courses, wonder who paid for Michael’s phlebotomy class?
From what I have read, Michael did not make much in way of an income.
TT, I know his brother, JP, supplemented his living expenses. Perhaps he footed that bill.
For what possible reason, Susan? Was it brotherly love, Christian charity, or a desire to have a phlebotomist on hand at all times, especially when one had company?
And why did he go to such trouble to defend L. Hinton and why was V involved re surety? Re JP and his role, maybe he became de facto “guardian” if “Big” R was out of the pic.
Replying here to Susan (since the replies got squeezed down) noting that “it wouldn’t seem that RW was his type.” Last year, there was info here that said there was a gay porn video in the household that featured Asian men. I don’t know which member of the household officially owned it. Then there was an Asian male stripper from a DC bar who came forward to say that Price had tried to pick him up. That was also mentioned in this forum quite some time ago.
I’ve been aware of what Price and Ward look like so I figured that Scott Dixson was someone older and totally out of shape, thus very desperate for a hook-up no matter who it would be. (Yes, I know we’re not supposed to pick on their looks, but this evolves into what Price prefers.) I recently did a Google image search on Dixson and he’s slender and youthful looking – a Caucasian version of the slender and youthful looking Robert Wone. I’m not sure how links work but I’ll put the URL here. If it doesn’t work, go to Google images and do a search for “Scott Hixson interior designer DC”. http://www.homeanddesign.com/photodisplay.asp?id=1911
Mr. Hixson’s visage is quite attractive, although he is far too thin for me. A good wind would blow him over. His colleague, the art consultant on the left, seemed much more substantial, featuring a sporty tattoo on his arm. But, my favorite part of that photo had to be the delightful purple-print blouse of the homeowner on the right: how regal she looks!
BTW, did Joe ever find Victor attractive, based upon the looks of Dyl, Scott, and Robert? Was the train station strumpet petite as well? Only Culuket’s hairdresser may know for sure.
And, of course, did Dyl ever find Culuket attractive, given the looks of Scott, Robert, and any possible friends from his known sojourns in Japan, Taiwan, Italy, or Thailand?
Bill2, you make a valid point. It looks as if JP had a wide-ranging taste in men. I have seen pics of S. Hixson before. He definitely seems a bit older. And thinner, as Clio points out.
Hoya,
I agree with you completely, that is why I said I go back and forth. There are so many reasons why Victor could have stayed upstairs. I was just throwing out one more possibility.
But you and Susan got me thinking…If you are going to wash your hands of it all, why not stay out of town?
I know I have asked this a million times, but I will ask again, how come we have not seen any phone records? The phone records would explain a lot!!!!!!
I too would love to see the phone records – was there a Sarah/Victor call earlier in the day? Did Victor text Joe?
Someone posed why would a person try to come home early from a business trip but I’ve done that countless times – being on a business trip is NOT fun (after the first few and the newness wears off) so coming home early, alone, doesn’t mean anything. BUT coming home early if he knew/suspected the boys played while he was gone, then chasing Joe around to find him but failing, and being kept in the dark even about Robert’s arrival, must’ve been off-putting to say the least. It seemed Victor knew that Dylan and Joe planned to play that night, whether or not Robert figured into that equation early or after-the-fact. His pissiness confirms that he expected to be alone and reflected his displeasure.
But his displeasure could mean general irritation that Dylan and Joe were trolling, or that they planned S&M that night – or simply that whatever he knew or didn’t know about their goings on changed that night. Did Joe tell him they played when he was out of town? Doubtful. Did he suspect? Probably.
It’s crossed my mind that Victor may have wondered if Robert was joining the boys’ play and that Dylan may have implied that when the two made Robert’s bed – my guess is that Dylan liked to fan the flame of Victor’s frustration. Even if it was a bald-faced lie, Victor may have believed it (his Joe was irresistible, after all). Would explain why he didn’t come down to say hello.
I can imagine Joe saying “yes, honey, Dylan is the only one besides you.” Wonder if Victor knew at the time that Joe (AND Dylan) had some of the neighbor.
It may have been more than suspicion on Zaborsky’s part. There’s the possibility that Sarah Morgan could have told him about past household events when he was on trips out of town. It would be interesting to know if any of her past overnight trips coincided with Zaborsky’s out-of-town trips. It’s possible that if Sarah Morgan tells all she knows, it could put a major dent in the stories told by the men of Swann St. — and my reference to the men of Swann St. includes more than the men residing in 1509.
What really raised my eyebrows about Victor coming home early was that he didn’t call ahead until he was in the cab on the way home from the airport. That just screams passive/aggressive to me. I agree that it’s perfectly normal to come home early from a business trip, but I think that most people would call ahead and say, “I finished up early here and got an earlier flight, so I’ll be home for dinner tonight.”
Does anyone remember when Victor left for his trip? I wonder if Sarah made herself scarce that night because other weird things had been going on during the nights earlier that week. Alternatively, I wonder if she got a heads-up from Victor that he was coming home to crash the party, and she didn’t want to be there for the drama.
I agree with you that Dylan probably liked to rattle Victor’s chain. I think he also liked to do this by feeding information through Sarah (e.g,, the “Joe is going to dump Victor for me” story), so it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Dylan gave Sarah a blow-by-blow description of everything that went on in that house while Victor was gone.
Well, perhaps he gave her a sanitized “blow-by-blow” account: Sarah was/is a lady, after all.
Are you guys saying that Victor was in the dark whenever Joe and Dylan added a third? Is that the case? I know he didn’t know about the neighbor, but I always thought he knew about others? You guys are saying he was mad at them playing? Did he always get mad?
Bea, brilliant thought about Dylan implying that Robert was game to upset Victor. Makes Victor’s “is this true?” remark (or something to that effect) to Joe, take on new meaning.
Now, I am wondering if Sarah told Victor about Robert and in a huff Victor decided to come home, look for Joe, then act like he didn’t know. Spouses do that.
Going back to the phone records. Has there been any mention of any phone records at all? Why haven’t they been released? If they are of no use, then I think that supports premeditated murder.
random thoughts….
We should stop saying Robert used the guest room, I think he only “saw” that guest room in death.
I think Dylan had more power in the house and in the relationship than Victor and some of us would like to believe/admit.
Hey Christy – during trial one of Joe’s emails to Dylan was introduced which strongly implied that he and Dylan scheduled their bad behavior for when Victor was out of town on business (particularly, in that instance, that they would get a “third”). It was not definitively established that Victor was in the dark about all “third parties” but that’s my guess.
I would love to know if he knew Joe put an ad in Alt dot com.
There was no full disclosure about phone records. It does seem like the prosecution would’ve asked Sarah if there had been any telltale phone records.
I agree with the comments generally suggesting that Dylan may have regularly toyed with Victor (and that night by implying that Robert was likely to be having sex with Joe/Dyl that night, even if Robert had no such intentions). Too, I agree with the sentiment that maybe Dylan fed Sarah information knowing it would get back to Victor. He may have been characterized as the “sweetest” but he was a bright guy who was underachieving in life and did not oust Victor as the first wife as he’d forecasted/bragged to Sarah.
And I still don’t buy that he was “exercising in his room” when Victor first got home. Maybe there was a ninja trick in there who baled on the night’s plans?
I hope they grill Victor like the steaks from dinner that night. He’s got to be hiding something. He HAS to know something was going on downstairs. He’s protecting Joe.
What a wimp Victor must be. Joe doing whatever he wanted. Sleeping around. Advertising for sex with strangers. And then coming home and sleeping in bed with his supposed “No. 1.”
Victor, you were so used.
I realize I’m in the minority here, but I have a really hard time feeling sorry for Victor. My strong suspicion is that Victor is someone who just lost interest in sex, and Joe responded to this by asking if he could bring another person into his/their relationship. At this point, any reasonable person would have either gone to see a doctor or suggested couples therapy. That doesn’t appear to have happened. The e-mails between Joe and Dylan after the murder indicate that Victor didn’t even want to see a therapist to deal with the toll of having someone stabbed to death in his own house.
He strikes me as someone who’s almost militantly passive-aggressive, up to and including his failure to co-operate with the police and with the depositions in the civil trial. This pattern of behavior deserves nothing but scorn, not sympathy. Even Sarah Morgan seems to understand this.
I would agree with you all down the line here.
As to this: “…The e-mails between Joe and Dylan after the murder indicate that Victor didn’t even want to see a therapist to deal with the toll of having someone stabbed to death in his own house.”
I missed the part about refusing therapy. That’s amazing.
The eds can (and should) correct me if I got this wrong, but my recollection is that this was in the e-mails that came out after the trial. Does anyone else remember this?
Oh, believe you me…I think VZ is no one to pity. He most likely has information that could solve this case, put those responsible in prison, and give Kathy Wone the peace she so deserves.
He’s a piece of crap in my book.
I think Victor is spineless. I had empathy for him in the beginning as I doubt he knew what really happened, was fed a line, but went along – and for that he was lumped in with the murderer(s) and I don’t think he is a murderer. But he had plenty of time to do the right thing and chose not to do so. No respect from me either.
VZ strikes me as child-like in some ways. Wonder if anyone else got that impression from the tapes or trial?
Also wonder about psychiatrict history/records re the three. Were VZ and or LD diagnosed with anything re their prescription meds?
If Hixson’s left over after everyboy else is gone (to jail or wherever), don’t throw him away; I might bid.
Avoiding the skinny threads. A quick thoguht on CD and Donna above – With all the defendants’ statements on unlocked doors and the Sarah Morgan testimony that others, including Michael Price, had keys to the house, it made me wonder about the back gate – yeah, that again.
A key to the back gate + the patio door ajar, et voila – the Ninja’s ready access into 1509. Could explain why nothing on top of the fence was distrubed too. I’m not sure what this dovetails with, but it got me wondering about who may have had the ability and means to enter the house via the locked gate.
Joe Price will never say, but you got to wonder if the keys he entrusted his brother with, included one to the patio. Would Sarah Morgan know?
Craig,
I tried doing some searches to see if I remembered correctly that his phlebotomy class was held at a hospital, but I admit defeat when it comes to using the search engine. Even when I try to use logical operators, I get hundreds of posts back.
As time goes on and there’s even more to recall, a good search engine would be so useful. Is there some way it could be upgraded? I’d be willing to contribute towards that end if that would help.
My recollection is that Sarah didn’t even know that Michael had keys to the house, so she probably wouldn’t know if he had keys to the patio gate.
“She said Michael Price, Joseph Price’s brother, also had a key, which “concerned” her because Joseph Price had told her about his brother’s problems with drugs and alcohol. Morgan said she learned about the key when Michael Price was arrested in connection with an October 2006 burglary at the house, but did not know when he received the key.”
Washington Examiner
I believe she also testified that she asked JP to not give a key to his brother but he went ahead and did so without telling her. What’s surprising to me, reading the above, and what I didn’t notice before is that not only did the police not know that MP had a key until he burgled his brothers house, but S. Morgan didn’t either.
Also, re previous speculation about SM being V’s confidante, I wouldn’t be surprised if she became the same to JP and LD as well.
In Sarah Morgan’s testimony on Day 10:Wrap, she said that “The front door, patio door and rear gate used the same keys and that the key was needed to lock the heavy gate.”
Ah, I stand corrected. 🙂
Glad to be of help–Google advanced search is a wondrous thing!
And ninjas might find a full set of keys a wondrous thing to have, too.
I imagine the blood the dogs scented in the patio drain could have resulted from a quick rinse of a play mat or some such on the way out….
Up there, psychiatriC not triCT.