And Why This Doesn’t End With Today’s Decision
It can be easy to lose sight of the reason so many of us have returned, repeatedly, to the unanswered questions of Robert Wone’s murder on August 2nd, 2006.
It can be hard to keep clear sight – through the tangle of facts, allegations, evidence and challenges – of what is known, and what is mere allegation.
It can be easy to point fingers, accuse, and lose temper when confronted with facts or ideas that don’t fit preconceived notions or carefully considered opinions.
It can be hard to keep our ears open and minds clear when given new ideas that challenge our beliefs. It’s easy to believe the worst in people. It’s hard to extend the benefit of doubt.
This community has undertaken a 19-month journey: from the 2008 indictment of Dylan Ward to the closing arguments of two extraordinary legal teams, both engaged in a legal joust to prove the rightness of their case. It has been exhausting for all involved – the Wone family, the Swann Street family, and for all who have come here.
Yet the truth is that this does not end today. Yes, there will be decisions and findings of fact by Judge Leibovitz as to the charges brought against Joseph Price, Victor Zaborsky and Dylan Ward.
But that’s not the end.
If any guilty verdicts are returned, there will be appeals. Simultaneously the wrongful death civil suit brought by Kathy Wone will begin soon – a trial where much of what was not ruled relevant in this case will be admissible.
And there is the hammer of prison. If any of the Swann Street housemates are found guilty, they will be facing serious prison time. There’s nothing like the promise of two decades in jail to loosen tongues.
No murder charges have yet been brought – but that could change, depending on verdicts, knowledge, and the willingness of anyone to come forward to admit the truth and get right with Robert.
Know this: we are not going anywhere, and will continue to provide a place for all those who seek justice for Robert to come, engage, discuss, disagree…and perhaps, contribute to the answer of who murdered Robert Wone.
And to everyone who comes here, regardless of your support for defense or prosecution, we can all agree one of the best tributes to Robert Wone is a contribution to the Robert Wone Memorial Trust Fund.
The time for speculation is just about over. Next will come all the arguments about whether the verdicts are right or wrong. I never met Robert Wone but he was so much more than his murder. Tonight at 9, no matter what the verdict, with or without a candle, I’m going to walk over to 1509 Swann St and say a little prayer for him and for Kathy. I hope she finds some peace.
Bravo Doug for a fitting post on this day…I only ask that those of us that have followed this case come together in a moment of silence .. It is the least we can do for Robert and his family
Candlelight vigil, I will be there with you in spirit.
I as well.
Count me in
“the wrongful death civil suit brought by Kathy Wone will begin soon – a trial where much of what was not ruled relevant in this case will be admissible.”
Some legal questions: In a civil case, can defendants be compelled to testify? Is immunity ever offered in civil cases? What kinds of testimony or evidence from a civil trial are allowed in a subsequent criminal case if murder charges are later filed?
I think that some of the lawyers have answered those questions previously. Will they please answer them again?
I have another question about the civil case. Will there be two versions of the transcript of the criminal trial, a redacted version that can be admitted into civil evidence, excluding testimony that Judge Leibovitz instructed herself not to consider, and a non-redacted (complete) version that can be the basis of the appeal?
Unless the civil parties agree with each other to admit the criminal transcript into evidence, the civil trial is a total fresh start. There will probably be a new judge, the rulings on what is relevant in the criminal case don’t bind the civil court. Nothing is in evidence unless the parties put the evidence into the record. All the transcribed testimony of the witnesses including their full public testimony (whether the criminal court excluded the testimony or not) will be available for use by the parties in the civil court. BUT the trial testimony in a prior case is largely hearsay. To the extent this transcript is used, the civil court will make its own decisions on what is relevant and admissible. The likeliest use of prior testimony like this would be to challenge a witness who in the civil case testifies inconsistently with his or her prior statement in the criminal case.
In a civil case, defendants can’t be compelled to testify but an adverse inference will be taken against them by their silence. (An adverse inference is just like it sounds,,,the judge or jury can conclude that the person remaining silent is silent because they are know they did illegal or wrongful things or had a bad intention). In a criminal case, such as the one we have here, the judge or jury cannot draw an adverse inference against defendants who do not testify.
Since the prosecutor is not a party to the civil case, and in fact must be neutral in the civil case, and is the only one that can give immunity to a witness, it is highly unlikely that immunity would be granted. In effect, thought, the defendants are in a bit of a bind in their defense of the civil case if they choose to remain silent. Should the defendants or someone testify in a civil case, their testimony could be used in a subsequent criminal case, but may be barred as hearsay unless it falls under one of the many exceptions to the rule against hearsay. If during the trial some new document comes to light, it could be used in a subsequent criminal proceeding.
You mention the use of testimony from a civil case in a subsequent criminal case. I have the reverse question. A criminal trial has just been held and a decision is about to be rendered. Can the record of the criminal trial be used in the civil case? Perhaps I should split that into two parts. Can the record of the criminal trial be used in a civil case against a defendant who was convicted of one or more crimes? Can the record of the criminal trial be used in a civil case against a defendant who was acquitted?
See above, basically the cases are on separate tracks, and Mrs. Wone is not bound by the judge’s ruling on evidence matters in the criminal case. Meanwhile, the prosecutor is not even a party in the civil case. Unless Mrs. Wone and the Defendants agree, the criminal transcript will not be admitted wholesale into the record of the civil case, though any witness testifying differently from their criminal trial testimony can be challenged.
What is interesting to me is what the effect of a conviction on some of these charges will mean for the wrongful death action. The judges findings in this regard could have a profound legal effect on the civil suit, especially if the defendants are convicted.
The most powerful piece of evidence in the civil case is likely to be the continued silence of the defendants.
What the defendants have said in the form of the 911 call and the videotaped statements to the police are going to be evidence (in one manner or another), along with the inconsistent statements to friends and neighbors.
I also would recommend to Mrs. Wone that she consider the use of the lis pendens in Florida. I have found it effective on more than one occasion.
Much of the evidence from the criminal case can and will be used in the civil case.
Since the legal standards applicable to civil and criminal trials are different, the same evidence may be used to prove a civil case by a preponderance of the evidence though the evidence was insufficient to establish proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
One important fact: the defendants in this case are not on trial for murder (or any of the related crimes); they are on trial for obstruction of justice, tampering with evidence (Joe Price only), and conspiracy. As a result, it is entirely possible that the defendants did not cause the death of Robert Wone, but did obstruct the investigation into his death.
Suffice it to say, the defendants will remain on trial. My view is that it is likely the defendants will continue to refuse to testify in the civil case on Fifth Amendment (self-incrimination) grounds.
Thank you for this post. All my heartfelt thanks for this site as a memorial to a young man who should have been free to live a long and happy life full of milestones. My deepest sympathies and condolences go out to Robert’s family and friends who must somehow live every day without him.
Libidocratia
Care to elaborate?
weaver,
i think that’s just spam.
I googled out of curiosity and it’s some kind of sex message website. There is a website called sxmsg.com and yesterday the message of the day was about “libidocratia”… their definition anyway. Weird, but maybe spam is just more advanced than I thought, LOL
I googled, too, out of curiosity. “LIBIDOCRATIA. The condition in which the sex urge is a person’s dominating force” so I get the relevance.
My prayers are with Ms. Wone and her family and friends. My heart goes out to them. I hope justice is served today and in the future. What a tragedy. Those involved have had their chance to right their wrongs.
Whatever the verdict today, I have faith in the justice system, as fallible as it seems at times.
My thoughts are with Kathy Wone and her family and friends, and with the families of the defendants. I believe that the truth eventually will be known.
I also think of Judge Leibowitz. I know she holds the lives of many people in her hands today and on many days. I am sure she has the intelligence and wisdom to rule wisely.
my thoughts and prayers go out to the wone family today.
thanks to the editors for all you have done in the interest of justice and truth.
I can’t help but wonder how the defendants are feeling right now.
Based on my own personal speculation I especially wonder how Joe Price is feeling, knowing he has ruined Victor’s life and Victor now faces a prison term.
Or maybe he thinks they will be acquitted.
My thoughts are also with the Wone family. I stand with them in spirit and hope there is some justice today for Robert. Those who murdered him and then tried to cover it up need to be held accountable. Guilty verdicts today will be a step in the right direction.
I don’t think Joe gives a rat’s ass about Victor’s life-he *might* be worried that he’s going to prison, but I think he is so delusional and narcissistic that he believes he is going to get off completely.
I had similar thoughts Gina.
I hope Victor will talk. Joe could be convincing him it will all be okay, but if/when Victor hears GUILTY things might change.
Joe only cares about Joe.
A NOT GUILTY decision EQUALS INNOCENT.
What ever the decision, we must all accept it as Truth.
No, no it doesn’t. Just ask OJ. The housemates may be able to slither through the window of reasonable doubt, but it doesn’t require any of us to accept anything other than that the judge did not believe there was enough evidence to convict.
Not guilty means the evidence was insufficient to sustain the legal burden of BARD. Right or wrong, I think that people have made up their minds about the guilt or innocence of the trouple. That’s why I said weeks ago that in the event of an acquittal, public opinion would still consider these 3 guilty, just like Lizzie Borden and just like OJ.
If you think that Not Guilty = Innocent, then you know absolutely nothing about the legal system.
“What ever the decision, we must all accept it as Truth”??? Uh, no, we have to accept it as the decision that was rendered. Criminal trials are not about truth, if they were, they wouldn’t have all the rules pertaining to evidence and there wouldn’t be the gamesmanship that exists. Innocent people get convicted when they don’t have competent legal counsel and guilty people get off.
In the music of my mind, this morning I heard the Cockney men from “My Fair Lady” singing, “A few more hours is all the time you’ve got.” Next up on the iPod of my mind is the judge, an hour from now, looking intently at the trouple and singing just the first line from a Judy Holliday song, “The party’s over” and then she announces her decision.
I can’t believe this day is finally here. In a way, it still doesn’t feel like Robert is really dead since we’re talking about him every day on this board.
I wish some of you could have known Robert and could understand exactly what was stolen from this world nearly 4 years ago.
A difference between the criminal and civil cases will also be the ability of the defense to submit motions that could drag the trial out for a longer period potentially exhausting the plaintiffs financial and emotional resources. I would expect the defense would certainly put Robert Wone and his family’s life on trial and in the least pleasant light possible.
I imagine this trial has significantly drained the resources of the defendants so there might not be much left to drag out a civil trial.
This trial didn’t cost Kathy Wone anything as far as finances.
Can’t imagine they’ll have much to work with – in terms of painting Robert and his family in an unpleasant light.
The preliminary motions probably have all been made. This case is not going to be decided on a motion to dismiss or summary judgment.
The plaintiff will take the defendants’ depositions (which presumably will be short because they will not say anything). There could be some new experts. I do not know if there is any potential deep pocket, like an insurance company, that could pick up some of the cost (although I am sure the insurance does not cover criminal acts committed by one of the insured).
How could they put Robert Wone on trial in a wrongful death case? First of all, I think any juror would be turned off by such an approach. Second, the defendants themselves are not going to say anything (unless I am way off the mark) about Robert Wone. Joe Price’s statement to the police attesting to Robert’s attributes would gut such an attempt and Zaborsky and Ward claimed they really did not know him.
Covington and Burling is standing behind Mrs. Wone and they do have the resources to outlast the defendants.
I am finding the gravity of today’s decision to be almost overwhelming. The little day to day details of my life seem more trivial than ever, in comparison.
When exactly do we think we’ll get a verdict today?
Judge L said last week that she would render her verdict at 11.
small-“l” lurker here, to say again many thanks to the editors and to the learned regulars who have made this site such an addictive read.
My prayers are that some measure of justice is obtained, and I know that justice and law are sometimes two differing things.
Justice, IMO, would begin with learning the answer to the overarching question of WMRW, but that will not happen today.
I think the best that can be hoped for is that it will be formally acknowledged that nothing adds up in this case that supports three totally innocent men somehow being found in a clean house with a brutally murdered fourth man–who is a truly innocent victim.
Regardless of sexual orinetation and practices, regardless of questions about the victim’s character, life, intent, practices, the base crime transcends all of this, and it may be yet another crime that the ONLY crime on trial is how it was handled in the immediate aftermath.
IMO, poorly, and far less than honestly.
The larger crime still goes on, and still will after today’s verdict.
I’m glad that the editors and the regulars plan to stick with this.
I plan to keep reading, and cheering your efforts from the sidelines.
God guide Judge Liebovitz.
You said it better than I could, I feel the same way.
Amen…you speak my mind.
11:02 a.m. and the site is already starting to crash! I suggest the editors do something to reign in the bandwidth or at least promise us that you’ll post news simultaneously on the Facebook page.
I’m also getting data base errors, yes please update the facebook page if the site crashes!
I’m on pins and needles!
Verdict Expected in Wone Cover-up Trial
http://cfc.news8.net/videoondemand.cfm?id=68453
I found a live twitter feed of what’s going on in the courtroom:
http://twitter.com/rendsmith
Thanks! Just saw this:
Zaborsky looks cool as cucumber, laughs at a joke
wow
The first time EVAH a twitter accounting makes sense to me. Thanks! And thanks to Rend Smith.
This auto-refreshing link should capture anything Wone related that gets posted to Twitter:
http://www.google.com/#q=wone&hl=en&safe=off&prmdo=1&tbs=mbl:1&fp=1
only link i found so far for live tweets of verdict —
http://twitter.com/rendsmith
Thanks for the links folks. Can’t get any work done over here. I am nervous and pray for justice.
From the Rend twitter:
Reporter:Def. Bill will be financial tamponade
http://www.myfoxdc.com/subindex/live_video/live_newscasts
Thanks, they’re set up for the post-verdict press conference.
Verdict is being covered on the DC Fox News site. I can’t get the video to work, though.
http://www.myfoxdc.com/
Bill try the link that ccf posted above, that one is working for me.
Thanks ccf!
So far just a lone microphone outside the courthouse…
RendSmith – “Decision being read.”
Decision being read!
http://twitter.com/rendsmith
Decision being read
omg what is taking so long!
she’s probably explaining her decision. and i think they can’t text/twitter in the courtroom. arghhhh! very frustrating!
I wonder why no texting in the courtroom?
Yes, VERY frustrating!!
i don’t know but that’s what it said somewhere. i’ve been frantically going back and forth between a dozen different websites so i’m not sure where i saw it. probably @rendsmith….?
I should have brought my lunch today. Looks like I might have to take a really late lunch.
rendsmith: Judge:murderer was not an intruder
rendsmith: W and Z didnt alter crime scene, says judge
Sigh. This is a trial that’s being covered by both national and international media, and the most up-to-date information is some random guy’s twitter feed.
Well he is a reporter, I think for the City Paper. I agree, the wait is making me crazy.
Might not be that random of a guy. He must be a Washington City Paper reporter – twitter bio says “News tips and snitching to this tireless journo at rsmith@washngtoncitypaper.com.” He follows dc ems and dc cts.
My bad. Props to the City Paper.
gesucristo this is taking so long!
Does it normally take this long to read a verdict???
Maybe Victor is in there confessing in open court?
j/k
Judge:murderer was not an intruder
@rendsmith Judge:murderer was not an intruder
rendsmith: Judge: Murderer not an intruder
From @rend smith’s twitter feed:
Judge:murderer was not an intruder
From twitter feed:Judge:murderer was not an intruder
Going down!!
all I’ve been able to get is this from Rend Smith’s twitter:
rendsmith
1. Judge:murderer was not an intruder 3 minutes ago via txt
arg!!!
I bet three little hearts started beating faster…
rendsmith W and Z didnt alter crime scene, says judge
W and Z didnt alter crime scene, says judge
From Rend’s twitter feed: “W and Z didnt alter crime scene, says judge”
From Rend Smith: “W and Z didnt alter crime scene, says judge”
Not looking good for P.
As predicted, no tampering findings for W & Z then?
She threw those charges out before the defense presented their case, so that’s kind of a moot point.
Looks that way but if the murderer wasn’t an intruder then they all conspired.
If Joe goes down alone on this, we will never find out what happened!
What does “W and Z didn’t alter the crime scene” mean? I thought the Judge already dropped the evidence tampering charge for W and Z? Or did the Judge find them innocent of one of the remaining charges??
I’m hungry.
How can she say and why would she that the murderer was not an intruder? I’m an obvious legal novice, but is that within her purview? This other stuff to me is not looking good for conviction. Hope I am wrong.
Is anyone actually there?
looks like W and Z are not guilty of tampering acc to judge
i infer PRICE is guilty of tampering
I think it just means – no intruder and these two didn’t alter crime scene so that leaves you Joe (or some other unknown party). Still doesn’t mean Dylan and Vic didn’t obstruct…
Price very likely altered knife, judge says
less than a minute ago via txt