FLASH: VERDICTS

2:00pm Update: 

Working around server issues and will post trial wrap post shortly.  New link to Judge Leibovitz’ ruling was added.  More soon.  Thanks for your patience. 

the order is here

Server crashed

Defense runs the table. Acquittal on all counts.  Grimm and Kirschner stopped to talk to press.  Defendants and Wone family leave without commenting.

the order is here

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ao2007
ao2007
14 years ago

You have got to be kidding me. From the Washington Post:
“Judge Lynn Leibovitz acquitted the three housemates from the bench after explaining her verdict for about an hour. Leibovitz said she believed that the three defendants know who killed Wone, but that the prosecution failed to prove that they did. It came down to the reasonable doubt standard, she said.”

Jo
Jo
14 years ago
Reply to  ao2007

She must not be a reasonable person then. She’s contradicting herself in her own statement!

Goose
Goose
14 years ago
Reply to  Jo

Beyond a reasonable doubt is NOT a reasonable person standard.

The reasonable doubt standard of proof requires the factfinder “to reach a subjective state of near certitude of the guilt of the accused.”

Susan
Susan
14 years ago
Reply to  Goose

Subjective still in play.

My first reaction was that this is a heartbreaking verdict. My second is horror at this miscarriage of justice and that three murderers are walking free.

I also think the judge was protecting herself from an appeal and looking at this with a less disinterested eye than a practical, professional one.

I think the judge is condescending when she states, “Others who have followed this case may have had a very human, normal reaction to it…” and thus developed a biased “belief” based on this “human” reaction. I’m sure it’s a nod to this website too and possible fallout from her decision, but her judgment is likewise human and based on her “subjective”..certitude. Well, subjective is subjective.

I think this is a very, very sad day for Washington, DC. A day of miscarriage of justice.

It was obvious the judge was frustrated with G. Kirschner at times, including his being late, or unprepared at times, etc. Not good. And at times they seemed to speak at cross purposes. But I thought Carlson Lieber really came through.

Susan
Susan
14 years ago
Reply to  Susan

Sorry, that was a kind of disjointed reply as a result of cutting and pasting and typing in haste.

Steven
Steven
14 years ago

I’m absolutely shocked and sickened.

anonymous
anonymous
14 years ago

I tried to “unzip” the Order to read it, but I just get gibberish. Help!

leo
leo
14 years ago
Reply to  anonymous

Me too–you can actually read some of the text in boldface between lots of black and red text gibberish. In particular, at the end, she expresses sorrow to the Wone family and acknowledges the difference between “moral certainty” and “evidentiary certainty.” She also quotes Blackstone that it is better for 10 guilty defendants to go free than 1 innocent suffer. She went a LONG way in this written decision to assuage the feelings of the Wone family and many others that the defendants are culpable and know much more than they were willing to tell the police, “for their own reasons,” as she put it.

Jo
Jo
14 years ago
Reply to  leo

So how did she come to believe that the defendants know more than they were willing to tell the police? If prosecution proved to her that the defendants were not telling everything they knew about the murder, doesn’t this mean they are guilty of obstruction of justice???

It’s an outrage! How dare she put the Wone family through this pain again!

mw
mw
14 years ago
Reply to  Jo

Not talking to police is a right, not a crime.

anonymous
anonymous
14 years ago
Reply to  leo

Thanks — How pathetic is this? I just send the zip file to our IT people so that they can open it. I’m hoping they don’t read it or they will know that I am obviously not working.

For what its worth (and probably not much — I don’t post often on here, but am acquainted with Joe — we are not good friends), I understand both how the judge reached her decision and how angry many of you are. I think part of the difficulty was that we had TONS of time to dissect every minute detail of this (including, frankly, some pretty rampant speculation about the personalities of the defendants, i.e. Joe is a psychopath; Victor is like an abused spouse, etc.) The bottom line is that the prosection presented a pretty narrow set of evidence — nothing like all of the things we considered. Based solely on that evidence, I think I can understand why she came to the conclusion she did. That being said, I think there is a good chance that the Ds are guilty of something – not sure if it is obstruction, conspiracy, or tampering, but they have to know more than they told.

HKG
HKG
14 years ago
Reply to  anonymous

for some reason it downloads as a “zip” file. change the zip suffix to “docx” and it will work.

pete
pete
14 years ago
Reply to  anonymous

Download and save the file. If the file name is FINAL_ORDER.zip, rename it to FINAL_ORDER.docx, and open it in Microsoft Word.

CapHill 507
CapHill 507
14 years ago

This is absolutely disgusting. The judge should be impeached.

Vandy
Vandy
14 years ago

Saw the live announcement on Fox TV. So sad.

Southern Lurker
Southern Lurker
14 years ago

If she found any of them guilty, could she point to something definitive? Beyond a reasonable doubt? That is the standard.

Sucks. But there it is.

mw
mw
14 years ago

Indeed.

Knowing that some combination of all three must have done something bad doesen’t add up to a conviction against any of them individually.

What specific facts can you pin on any individual defendant?

Sad. Sad for the Wone family, sad that there’s no justice, sad that this will probably happen again.

leo
leo
14 years ago
Reply to  mw

The judge referred to what she called “the math problem,” meaning that any one of the defendants could have been “the odd man out,” i.e., not involved in the murder; therefore any two could have been involved. Prosecution could not pin the “damning” (her word) facts on any one specific defendant or set of two defendants.

Lurker
Lurker
14 years ago
Reply to  leo

But this was a conspiracy/obstruction trial, not a murder trial. It’s not conceivable that all three were not in on the plan to obstruct here…even if not all of them participated in the murder. Each was questioned on what he knew, and each lied.

weaver
weaver
14 years ago
Reply to  Lurker

Exactly.

They all claimed some element of the bogus intruder story. They all lied.
Some are defending the judge, but I think she is wrong. They are guilty BARD. I’ve seen people convicted on so much less it’s ridiculous. It’s called circumstantial evidence. Before the verdict I thought she would be able to see the forest through the trees, despite the million dollar defense trying to muddy the obvious. In that I was wrong, she didn’t have the foresight to see the obvious.

mw
mw
14 years ago
Reply to  weaver

Where’s the proof that all three knew at the time (and weren’t just misled by the other two)?

leo
leo
14 years ago

One paragraph I could make out in the linked text (full of some kind of “XML” gibberish) said that had the prosecution been able to prove their timeline beyond a reasonable doubt, that is, that they delayed even 19 minutes before calling 911, that it would have been a material omission to the police and would have sufficed to find them guilty of obstruction and conspiracy. But she couldn’t get there based on the evidence in this trial.

Fascinating
Fascinating
14 years ago

Too bad. I feel horrible for the Wone family.

The police screwed up the investigation and the government did a poor job proving their case.

The three of them walk the streets FREE.

No justice for Robert Wone.

Disgusting.

Rapt in MD
Rapt in MD
14 years ago

Devastating. Logging off and going for walk – can’t believe it. I only hope that the details of the evidence the judge DID find convincing opens the way to a successful civil trial and a murder trial. I hope her order serves as a foundational document for those cases to go forward and I hope she meant it as such. This is not over and as Victor imagined on that dreadful night…his life and the lives of the other two will never be same. They will continue to be mired in the legal maneuverings of this case, as well as mired in the knowledge of what truly happened. I hope the burden of that knowledge proves to be crushing.

UtterDisbelief
UtterDisbelief
14 years ago

I’m sick. Just sick. Will anyone ever come clean?

april
april
14 years ago

How could Leibovitz possibly do this? Actually stating that she believes the defendents knew who killed Wone and then let them off! She stated she thought the prosecution failed to prove the fact that the defendents knew who killed Wone. It’s as if she’s punishing the prosecution for doing a bad job with the case instead of punishing the guys who killed a man or covered up the killing of another human being!!! What are her other theories in the case? How are the three men not involved….or at least one of them such as Price? All I have to say is bring on the wrongful death suit. Please dear God, let these men pay for what they have done and bring justice to Robert, his wife, and the rest of his family!!!!!!!

Lynn
Lynn
14 years ago
Reply to  april

I think she agreed with you that one or more were involved, but could not find evidence to determine which one(s). From her ruling:

“Overall, the defendants’ story that an intruder committed the offense is incredible beyond a reasonable doubt. But as I have said, that does not answer the question whether each defendant knew this at the time he spoke to investigators on August 2-3, 2006, or later in talking to others. Any one of the defendants could have been the odd man out of the scheme. Any one of them could have believed the others when he was told that they were not responsible for Mr. Wone’s death and that they had no idea how it had occurred. Any one of them could have found the intruder theory plausible in the face of these denials, if he did not know the real truth, and if he trusted his co-defendants at the time. If any defendant was this one, his statements were not knowingly false and his statements were not made with the intent to keep the police from solving the murder. I do not find beyond a reasonable doubt that the statements of any defendant were so knowingly or demonstrably false that they alone establish the charges.”

Jo
Jo
14 years ago
Reply to  Lynn

Pure legal BS.

If she believes, based on the evidence, that it was not an intruder who killed Robert, and the defendants insist on this incredible story and refuse to offer more information, wouldn’t common sense dictate a guilty verdict?

Does beyond a reasonable doubt mean with absolute certainty???

It’s outrageous what the housemates did to Robert and it’s even more outrageous that our legal system allow them to walk free and subject the Wone family to such anguish and injustice again!

EricFormerlyNewbie
EricFormerlyNewbie
14 years ago

interesting point right out of the gate from the judges order:

On the night of August 2, 2006, sometime between 11:08 pm and 11:49 p.m., Robert Wone was stabbed three times in the chest and abdomen by an attacker wielding a knife.

This statement means that she did not believe that the scream during the Maureen Bunyan broadcast had to do with the murder or discovery of the body. Either that, or she did not find the next door neighbor testimony as credible.

Without that basic fact, the 11:00 to 11:35 timestamp of the murder, it destroys the government case that there was time for a coverup. There is your reasonable doubt. If murder COULD have happened at 11:49 then conspiracy and coverup impossible.

crazy and so sad.

christy love
christy love
14 years ago

I never put much stock in the scream either. I don’t know why.

leo
leo
14 years ago

No, she was referring to the Maureen Bunyan broadcast because that occurred between 11:08 and 11:30. So she took the 11:08 as the earliest time for the murder (timing it from the scream) and 11:49 as the latest (timing it from the 911 call). How else could she conclude the earliest was 11:08?

Lynn
Lynn
14 years ago
Reply to  leo

I thought the 11:08 time came from the emails.

EricFormerlyNewbie
EricFormerlyNewbie
14 years ago
Reply to  leo

If 11:49 is from the 911 call, then the scream was discounted entirely

leo
leo
14 years ago
Reply to  leo

I was wrong: the 11:08 refers to Robert’s “last transmission” from his Blackberry. I did not know that that email was actually sent. From what we read, it was written but not sent. So I agree with you: she did not buy the Maureen Bunyan date stamp.

Corgivet
Corgivet
14 years ago

Server down but I got try posting here… The anger and rage I feel now must be infinitesimal compared to the Wone family.. I am not even in the mood to read anymore of this preposterous ruling..
Sad to say but I think the Ninja assassin theory flies…
Joe,Victor and Dylan I hope your lives are shattered and that you live the rest of your lives as outcasts..
You did it,you covered it up and now walked away….
I am saddened that out justice system failed Robert and Kathy Wone

leo
leo
14 years ago
Reply to  Corgivet

No, the ninja assassin theory was SPECIFICALLY shot down by the judge, who found that “the murderer was not an intruder,” nor was it Michael Price (not sure why or how she concluded that, but she did say it).

Jo
Jo
14 years ago

Very disappointed in the legal system and in this judge!!! She knowingly let three guilty men walk free.

Even in her written order, one can find so many reasonable inferences that these three men were lying about calling 911 immediately upon dicovering wone’s body. So what does it take to convict on obstruction of justice?? Unbelievable!

ladyg
ladyg
14 years ago
Reply to  Jo

did she (the judge) listen to the 911 call? come on now, in all the calls that have been reported (the ones you see televisised) this is the strangest.

mw
mw
14 years ago
Reply to  ladyg

Strange 911 calls are not a crime.

christy love
christy love
14 years ago

I cried because the world seems unjust
I cried because a family still doesn’t know the truth
and I cried because I do not know what to do about it
I cried because it seems money can always buy “justice”
I cried because the “intruder theory” is truly laughable
I cried because a family still doesn’t know the truth
I cried because of incompetence & complacency
and I cried because I do not know what to do about it
I cried because not knowing what happened to cause a loved ones death, is maddening
I cried because a family still doesn’t know the truth
I cried for Robert today.

Grrr
Grrr
14 years ago
Reply to  christy love

Such melodrama. Considering the evidence, I think it is the correct verdict.

chilaw79
chilaw79
14 years ago

While I am sure the verdicts are of no comfort to Kathy Wone and her family, Judge Leibowitz did not leave the defendants unscathed, particularly Joe Price.

I cannot find fault with the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard employed by Judge Leibowitz. It is the law of our land, and it should be. Judges and juries punish the prosecution for making mistakes every day, and they should.

The opinion makes it absolutely clear that Judge Leibowitz did not believe the “unknown intruder” theory and found no evidence to support it. The opinion is detailed in its presentation of the facts. Although I am surprised by the verdicts (particularly as to the obstruction counts) and might well have concluded otherwise if I were a juror or the judge, Judge Leibowitz presented her views in a detailed and comprehensive manner.

And for “proudpapa,” this lawyer believes your daughter did a bang-up job and probably gave Judge Leibowitz a few things to think about over the weekend. The prosecution did the best job they could with the evidence they had.

A civil trial, evaluated under a “preponderance of the evidence” standard will level the playing field, especially when coupled with the ability to make inferences from the silence of the defendants. I hope one or more of the defendants steps forward and tells the truth now that the obstruction and conspiracy charges are behind them.

William
William
14 years ago
Reply to  chilaw79

How will a civil trial be different? Mrs. Wone still can’t prove which of the three did it, and I don’t think they can all be held liable for the acts of the others. So she won’t get damages for wrongful death. She will surely prove a conspiracy to obstruct against the three, but what are the damages, if any, separate from the loss of her husband?

And I suspect Joe Price will represent himself and his lovers!! How awful for her to have to be questioned by him. The defendants are already vilified (except by Ben Franklin and tasso). The evidence against the trouple is already out there (thanks to this site). What more can be gained?

tucsonwriter
tucsonwriter
14 years ago
Reply to  chilaw79

By an odd coincidence my dog had diarreah in my study overnight. I walked in and it smelled and there were three distinct spots on the rug. Kind of a visual, stinky omen for this verdict.

It seems that justice is an ideal that can not be reached by mere mortals in this world.

Ah well, if you want to turn your attention to something really heinous read “Murder City” by Charles Bowden. The situation down in Mexico is unravelling far more rapidly than any miscarriage of justice in this country.

jjwhite
jjwhite
14 years ago

The order states as fact: “His Blackberry reflected a final e-mail transmission at 11:08 p.m.” Was an email actually “transmitted” at 11:08pm? I thought this was in dispute, and furthermore, I thought the blackberry wasn’t even in evidence?

weaver
weaver
14 years ago

Those who want to see justice for Robert, look ahead to murder charges. That is what the charge should have been in the first place. There is no statute of limitations on murder.

I would like to know how this outcome may affect future charges of murder. Does anyone know?

Lurker
Lurker
14 years ago
Reply to  weaver

No impact. There have not been any murder charges, so the government is free to charge someone in the future, should new evidence arise. Like from the civil trial.

weaver
weaver
14 years ago
Reply to  Lurker

Thanks, but what I am wondering is if the government will be prohibited from any claims of tampering or obstruction along with murder?

Lurker
Lurker
14 years ago
Reply to  weaver

Can’t bring the obstruction/tampering/conspiracy charges again…but I think those were brought in this case only because the gov’t did not have better evidence (i.e., exactly who did the murder).

leo
leo
14 years ago
Reply to  weaver

Yes, tampering and obstruction have been tried and rejected. That’s it for all time; double jeopardy has attached to those charges.

weaver
weaver
14 years ago
Reply to  leo

Accessory to murder is not off the table, correct?

cjh78
cjh78
14 years ago

Let’s get it together people!

Yes, it’s very sad for the Wone family, and we are all feeling disgusted that these guys are free. However, I think the Judge made the right call, as unpopular as it was. There wasn’t evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to convict these guys. I think the prosecution did a good job with what they had to work with. I think if anyone is to blame for this verdict, it would have to be the police and investigators who botched this case. DC is rampant with incompetent, undereducated, lazy, and unprofessional law enforcement. It will never change in this city.

There won’t ever be a murder trial because these guys are definitely not talking, especially now and there isn’t any other evidence. The Wone family will probably win the civil case, although doubtful that the defendants will ever be required to pay the damages.

The three defendants, as evidenced beyond a reasonable doubt in this trial, are disgusting, vile, insecure, soulless, and miserable. That will forever be their sentence.

David M
David M
14 years ago
Reply to  cjh78

There are more than one paths to justice. Talk or don’t talk, the truth will out one day and murder charges have not (yet) been filed. In the meantime, I hope and will do what I can to make sure that the facts of their involvement in this case, including the Judge’s conclusions, follow every one of those bastards every day of their lives.

Snugger
Snugger
14 years ago

Correct result based on the evidence at trial, which is the legal standard. It has been shameful to see this site assume/imply guilt throughout this process. It is also shameful that Robert’s life ended the way it did and I only wish his family and widow good things. The Prosecution could have requested a jury, but it seems that arrogance overcame common sense. They would have been convicted on a jury because juries can ignore legal standards and do what they think is right. It is wrong that Robert is no longer with us, it is right that these men were given a fair trial and a fair verdict.

Jo
Jo
14 years ago
Reply to  Snugger

It is wrong that guilty men are walking free, perhaps not legally but morally for sure. That’s why the legal system is a joke. Just look at the OJ Simpson trial.

chilaw79
chilaw79
14 years ago
Reply to  Snugger

Different fact finders can use the precisely the same evidence, make reasonable inferences, and still come to different conclusions.

The defendants went with a bench trial and found a fact finder who believes in the beyond a reasonable doubt standard.

The opinion written by Judge Leibowitz does not vindicate the defendants in any real way; it simply acknowledges that the prosecution did not have enough evidence to prove their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. In my view, the same evidence would be enough for a civil jury to render a verdict against the defendants.

Ivan
Ivan
14 years ago
Reply to  Snugger

I wasn’t aware that the prosecution could have requested a jury. Would their request override the defense’s request for a bench trial?

christy love
christy love
14 years ago

How is Ms. Wone and not Mrs. Wone?

Nora
Nora
14 years ago

I’ll bet Joe Price is glad he didn’t tag any walls in this fine city. Apparently that’s about a thousand times worse than what he did.

sxmsg
14 years ago

Aphallatosis

Clio
Clio
14 years ago

“Justice delayed is justice denied,” said William E. Gladstone, British prime minister of the late Victorian era.

“Oh the humanity!,” as the Hindenberg of this case has suddenly burst into flames. A DC jury would have had common sense. Thanks, Glenn, Cathy L., and Lynn for wasting everyone’s time! Money talks and the defendants walk: is this imperial Rome, or what?

EricFormerlyNewbie
EricFormerlyNewbie
14 years ago
Reply to  Clio

imperial Rome? more so then we would like to believe.

Scott
Scott
14 years ago

Disappointing verdicts, for sure, but I don’t fault the judge. She seems to have been in a difficult position of believing the prosecution theory, in general, but being unable to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that any particular individual was guilty of any of the charges. I can only imagine it had to be tough to make those determinations.

By the way, it seems like some of the language I’ve seen attributed to her in press accounts of the verdict, like “very probable” (gov’t theory) or “very likely” (that JP tampered with the knife) seem to signal that if the legal standard had been a preponderance of the evidence, rather than beyond a reasonable doubt, that the decision could have gone the other way. That has to be at least a small glimmer of hope for the civil trial.

Fascinating
Fascinating
14 years ago
Reply to  Scott

I just read the judge’s ruling after my initial shock. I agree with Scott —- she had a hard job. And, after following the trial, thanks to the editor’s reporting jobs here, I got nervous a little while ago that the government was DROPPING THE BALL on proving their case. Add that to the crappy police investigation, and the judge had no choice but to let them go.

Fascinating that the judge said several times in her ruling that the defendant’s behavior and statements were troubling. But the American Justice System has this quirk about “beyond a reasonable doubt”. And that bar was not met by the government.

Too bad.

Now …. how does the Wone family move on? Or does one ever move on when justice is not served in a court of law?

So sad.

VA Librarian
VA Librarian
14 years ago

Joe Price actually orchestrated the perfect version of the Prisoner’s Dilemma. Three suspects all tried at the same time and nobody talks and nobody testifies and consequently they all walk, even though someone is obviously guilty.

ladyg
ladyg
14 years ago

i put my comment on the wrong page…here goes, i’M SPEECHLESS!!!!!

A Friend of Trouple
A Friend of Trouple
14 years ago

Looks like I am the only here who is glad that this nightmare (for now) is over for the 3 – at least they can get back to some sense of “normal” life. While I agree that is must be devastating for the Wone family, the facts are the facts – and a guilty verdict wasn’t possible when so much reasonable doubt exists. The prosecution just didn’t prove their case!

keepingalevelhead
keepingalevelhead
14 years ago

But why would you call yourself a “friend”, even now, even after reading all the disturbing information brought forth during this trial, even when you can only say the standard wasn’et met. Odd, and disturbing. Are you really willing to be seen in public with them and be associated with them?

AkaZappa
AkaZappa
14 years ago

If you call a civil trial for wrongful death where a lot of evidence that was inadmissible here will be ard, then yeah, I guess so.

David M
David M
14 years ago

There can be no “normal” life for those who knew and loved Robert Wone until there is some sort of resolution about who killed him and why. This is why the loved ones of missing people so desperately want at least a body if their loved one goes missing. Until there is resolution, the questions remain too large and too horrible. Not least for the communitie(s) that will now have three more murderers walking free among their otherwise law abiding and unsuspecting citizens.

weaver
weaver
14 years ago

This is not over.

Maybe the prosecution couldn’t “prove” the charges here, but in a murder charge there will be evidence that can’t be disputed, it’s called a DEAD PERSON.

NO INTRUDER. Get it?? How can you defend them?

By the way, don’t plan any sleepovers with your friends, they like to drug people and rape them. If you look like you won’t wake up they might kill you. It’s happened before. Like I said, NO INTRUDER.

slwapo
slwapo
14 years ago

How can the Judge uses phrases like “very likely” and “very probable” and then not find beyond a reasonable doubt? “Very likely” and “very probable” mean 80% or 90%? So then what does “beyond a reasonable doubt” mean? 95%? 99%?

keepingalevelhead
keepingalevelhead
14 years ago

Is it true the govt could have requested a jury?

weaver
weaver
14 years ago

Editors, please keep up with your mission, that would be to answer the question who killed Robert Wone.

It’s time to look ahead to murder charges. I hope the Wone family and others will keep pressure on the DA to continue investigating. After all, a man was MURDERED.

For example- more complex toxicology, a closer look at every single piece of evidence and every interview, and keep the scumbags under a microscope.

In fact…. what is to stop the DA from filing murder charges right now?? Seriously, it’s called circumstantial evidence and every day people are convicted on much less than what they already have on these three. The judge said it: NO INTRUDER. So that leaves THEM. Somebody correct me if I am wrong but when a person is murdered and the obvious is that is happened at the hands of a group of people, they ALL get charged with murder.

Could the judge be throwing this back to the DA for the correct charge, which is murder???

slwapo
slwapo
14 years ago
Reply to  weaver

I don’t see how any new evidence can emerge 4 years later. The prosecution’s only hope, if they file murder charges, is to insist on a jury trial.

weaver
weaver
14 years ago
Reply to  slwapo

I think they have enough circumstantial evidence for a murder charge now. Throw in what wasn’t allowed in this trial due to the scope of the charges and it’s even more powerful. I hope the DA is seriously considering this.

Nick
Nick
14 years ago

Terrible call. They obviously altered the crime scene, and those emails shed light on motive too. Anyone know why the prosecution waited so long to reveal them?

mw
mw
14 years ago

I bet the torture-electro-stimulus-genital-whatever-it-is is going to get a serious workout tonight.