The View After Two Hectic Days – Updated @ 10:30pm
Only two days into this trial, the strategies, battle lines, and maybe some breaches are emerging.
Courtesy of William J. Hennessy,Jr.
The government’s plan looks pretty clear, a strong and steady march using eye witness reports and expert testimony to shred any and every alleged inconsistency and anomaly in the defendants’ alibis, statements and behavior.
AUSA Glenn Kirschner will position Joe Price as a ring leader of a conspiracy; one who had a powerful hold on his two (former?) housemates Victor Zaborsky and Dylan Ward.
The motive? The fact that they are a family with incredibly strong bonds make it likely that they coalesce and hang together, otherwise they hang…
In his opening statement, the prosecutor said that Robert was not a part of that household and the defendants made a clear choice and a decision that night, don’t take sides against the family.
The defense leaned hard on relationships in the opening days; the closeness and strength of Robert and Price’s longterm friendship, one that Price’s housemates inherited, the shock and grieving the three felt after the murder, and the idea that this family could in no way harm Robert or cover up for someone who may have.
The fault line and other thoughts after the jump.
The distancing we caught a glimpse of this week was first noticed during last year’s status hearing: Victor Zaborsky counsel Thomas Connolly, trying to keep his client above the fray. Connolly had the shortest opening statement on Monday, and perhaps the best: Victor is a kind and gentle soul who was telling the truth; he knew nothing and is only sharing what he heard and saw.
The defense may be unified with the common goal of an across the board acquittal, but when it gets down to brass tacks, maybe it’s every man for himself.
Robert’s nighttime habits (bite guard, showers on hot days), bed covers, deodorant, gym clothes and hanging up his neckties are just some of the many small details we may see emerge as the defense tries to depict what authorities found at 1509 Swann Street, as being entirely consistent with a burglary/home invasion not an orchestrated and arranged scene that the government will put forth.
Judge Lynn Leibovitz has really grabbed hold of the reins. We’ve seen her command of the details, her striving to be fair, her sometime lack of patience and ready sense of humor were all on display this week.
The media coverage of the trial has been significant and we’ll do our best to keep the media page up-to-date. A special thanks to courtroom artist William J. Hennessy, Jr. A freelance artist under contract to the MSM outlets, he’s graciosly allowing us to republish his terrific work. Mr. Hennessy of CourtroomArt.com has been there every step of the way, going all the way back to Joe Price’s arraignment in November 2008.
More thoughts from the past two sessions may bubble up and we’ll update throughout the day. A few days ago we decided to close comments on older posts, hoping to keep them better grouped on the current ones. We don’t know if it’s working well or not. WordPress comment sections are lacking in features at times and we’ll adopt whatever works best.
For those who want to see a longer list of comments than the one that displays on the “Home” page, we suggest using an RSS feed reader like Google Reader, or iGoogle. Enter the URL for the comments feed (http://whomurderedrobertwone/comments/feed) after selecting “Add a subscription” in Google Reader, or “Add Stuff” in iGoogle. iGoogle displays a complete list of the comments when the small icon in the upper right corner of the summary box is clicked. We recognize many follow the extensive comment threads and this should make that easier.
Doubting Thomases: Mr. And Mrs. Thomas, forty year residents of 1507 Swann Street, took the stand yesterday to place fixed points on the government’s timeline. Asked by attorneys how long they were married, Mr. Thomas wasn’t so certain; Mrs. Thomas was, 44 years. That was greeted with knowing laughter in the courtroom.
Although at times not-so-solid, Mr. Thomas’ testimony may have proved helpful; he was not the absent-minded retiree the defense team may have been hoping for. Although he did admit to refreshing his memory of the night of the murder by using his three and a half year old grand jury testimony, he knew what he knew and made a convincing case.
He and his wife had very specific nighttime routines, an early dinner, the news ( the Lehrer NewsHour too), an early evening nap for Mrs. Thomas and an early bedtime for her husband. Mrs. Thomas would awake and watch Maureen every evening at 11:00pm and would then clean up the kitchen.
Not much of a Ted Koppel fan, she said repeatedly that she either ignored or turned off the TV after Bunyan signed off at 11:35p. Why did Nightline matter to the defense team? We were wondering the same thing last April.
Both witnesses were very credible in stitching together those long ago elements. Maybe that’s what 44 years can do.
Model Home: Yesterday, Judge Leibovitz admonished AUSA Glenn Kirschner for letting his EMT witness, Jeff Baker, get a little too far out in front with his opinions and feelings (“..hair on back of my neck…”), and directed the prosecutor to keep Baker and his other witnesses focused squarely on their observations alone.
We empathize with Robert’s family and try and understand and respect their feelings. Many do the same for the accused also. We’ve seen many of their supporters at all of the status hearings and occasionally hear from some as well. One can’t sit in the courtroom for very long and not help but wonder how the defendants feel, case in point, Zaborsky’s tears, as he listened to his 9-1-1 call. It’s only human.
Sure, the defendants have had the better part of two years to emotionally prepare for this strenuous and very public week. They fully expected to hear the government rip the bark off them, Kathy Wone’s moving testimony and a first responder’s harrowing account of the evening.
But what must have been going though their minds as the four foot-long, mocked-up version of their well-appointed, million dollar plus home, built for the sole purpose of convicting them, was unceremoniously hauled into room 310?
A nearby reporter heard Price say aloud, “not to scale,” sending his attorney Bernie Grimm to his feet with an objection, parroting his client’s remark. Aside from the exactness of the dimensions, a model of the home that showcased their previous model life, must have been pretty hard to look at. Then again, maybe that was the least of their worries yesterday.
-craig
At Their Words: Maybe a bad choice of words. It’s a wonder we even spelled it right. It goes without saying we respect the defendants’ rights and the sanctity of the process, but we remain skeptical of all.
Tomorrow morning, the words and testimony of first responding EMT, Jeff Baker continues. Tuesday’s session ended with him demonstrating to Judge Leibovitz, the path he took through the house by using the 1509 model. The model was impressive, like something you’d see in an architect’s office. The FBI artist responsible for it has built nearly 50 of them.
A 9:45am start tomorrow, a line may form early. All sessions are open to the public.
A few pictures from yesterday, including the legal teams departing Moultrie Courthouse, follow. The WMRW Shakey-Cam has given way to the Blurry-Cam:
Courtroom Artist William J. Hennessy, Jr.
William J. Hennessy, Jr
WJLA-TV photographer battles the chilly rain for the shot
Wheels Up: Legal teams depart the Moultrie Courthouse
Ward counsel David Schertler
Ward counsel David Schertler's back
Price counsel Bernie Grimm and associate
Zaborsky counsel Thomas Connolly
AUSAs Glenn Kirschner, Rachel Carlson Lieber, T. Patrick Martin
With WMRW noted as a “source” in many press reports (kudos) I think it’s good that Blurry-Cam will keep the site humble. 🙂
Legal Beagle of Howery LLP’s IP Division has some interesting insight on Day 2’s proceedings.
A thought about the Comments threads: what would be really great is a “Parent” link in each comment: sometimes, even with the new graphical features of the Comments sections, it’s difficult to find the comment to which a comments is replying.
Thanks for all your great work Eds!
The only thing I really miss is the ability to “scroll” backwards and forwards in stories. But that’s pretty minor. All in all I like the new set up.
Where can I find more information on the break-in at Swann Street that happened after the murder? Did that break-in involve Joe’s brother? Is there any indication that any material related to that break-in will be included in this trial?
Lee,
Judge Liebowitz is allowing the discussion of the burglary into trial as it spoke to the defendants’ “state of mind”, which the prosecution argues that they delayed reporting that crime because it affected the family, and it speaks to how they could have proceeded on August 2nd, as well.
David
Sorry. I meant the break-in that occurred later. Where $7000 worth of electronic were taken and Joe’s brother was charged. The charges were later dropped, I think.
Is any of that going to be in this trial?
Lee,
That is the burglary of which David is speaking.
Strangely, I have this thought that maybe the burglary was set up for the purpose to prove the so called intruder theory. Does anyone have an idea how’s the neighborhood?
I have wondered the same thing.
Sorry, Mia, I hit ‘send’ too fast. There have been a number of break-in robberies in the environs of the 1500 blocks of S, Swann, and T streets over the years, of the following sorts:
– Roof-top break-ins: a large number were traced to a prolific individual who would climb up to the roof of a vacant house and hop across houses until he found a window or roof-deck door though which he could enter. If it were possible to break in to 1509 that way – I forget the floor plan – I doubt he would have done so when people were obviously home. No violence is associated with his endeavors. As a beneficiary of the DC criminal justice catch-and-release program, he may or may not have been in custody at the time.
– there have been a few ground-level break-ins over the years. They’ve occurred during the day when robbers have presumed residents were at work. Point of entry is an unbarred rear window or glass door. In my personal experience, it happened exactly as the officer who questioned Joe Price described: robber(s) smashed a rear window, climbed in, got a blanket, and ran through the house grabbing various items that they placed in the blanket and then went back out through the broken window like Santa Claus on Opposite Day. They were noisy and didn’t cover their tracks – they were all about speed and efficiency.
– there have been a few daytime walk-in burglaries that occurred when a person left their back door ajar (for example, if someone is gardening and steps away for a few minutes to tend to something inside the house). Individuals troll the alleys hoping for such opportunities; they’ll slip through an unsecured fence, if there is a fence, step inside, grab something quick (like a purse) and then they are gone. The crime hinges on stealth and extreme brevity.
I can’t recall any break-ins resulting in violence in the immediate area – even when a resident has encountered a robber in situ. Robberies with violence are an outdoor sport – there are plenty of sidewalk muggings with assault hereabouts.
Incidentally, if you go to the website http://www.crimereports.com and search for zip code 20009, you’ll get a map that includes the 1500 block of Swann with tags indicating reported crimes during a certain period of time. Also lists registered sex offenders. I’m not sure how far back you can search, though – probably not back as far as 2006.
does anyone know abotu the BBQ FIRE and the PLUMBING problems from the murder night? did they burn the bloody towels or flush drug evidence? i hadn’t read about this and can you direct me to where i can learn more about it?
thanks, i am really praying for Kathy.
There’s much discussion of these aspects in the three transcript posts. Using the search box on the right-hand side of the site, enter “third degree” and all three posts will appear.
Whether they did or didn’t, they all certainly were anxious to explain all about their bathroom and patio being strangely wet, weren’t they?
Yes, there is a great deal of extraneous and I would say statistically improbable explanation for why water would be both on the bathroom floor and all over the patio that particular night provided individually and separately by each defendant. It is one of the many things that cries conspiracy to my ears.
In all honesty, how much water would be required to put out a burning steak, especially given that the steaks were salvaged? Was there still water present hours later, on a hot august night?
Indeed. If this were a novel instead of real life, high school students would be told to write essays about the symbolism of the water motif.
I bet it would be likened to Lady Macbeth and all Neptune’s waters.
What is the legal effect of Price’s and Zaborsky’s status as registered domestic partners? Does it confer spousal immunity, where a partner can prevent the other partner from testifying against the other? If not, the new gay marriage law in the District would, I assume, confer spousal immunity if a marriage were to take place.
Re spousal immunity- I think it’s a good question, but I don’t think it will come into play here as an issue. Both are being charged (5th Amendment issue). Also, neither has shown any indication to give any sort of plea deal or confession since they were charged almost two years ago. So I think their testifying against will likely remain a non-issue for trial.
I’m pretty sure spousal immunity only prohibits testimony regarding statements, not actions. So Joe couldn’t assert the immunity to prevent Victor from testifying that he walked in to see Joe stabbing Robert, for example.
That’s the marital confidences privilege. Spousal testimonial privilege prevents testimony on any issue, but it attaches to the testifying witness who can waive it. So my point below that it could hinder a deal/guilty plea is not valid.
I know wikipedia is not an accepted legal citation but it was the fastest I could find –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spousal_privilege
If Victor didn’t see anything and only knows what Price told him, it could potentially keep out that testimony.
Don’t forget, too, that if Dylan (or any third person) was present then the privilege fails.
Yes, but it could reduce the ability of one of the trouple to negotiate a deal if his testimony can only be used against one of them.
whodunit–Have to point out that the Wiki description is unclear as to whether a spouse can VOLUNTARILY testify against a defendant spouse. It says: “spousal immunity”can be used to prevent any party in a criminal case from calling the defendant’s spouse to testify against the defendant about any topic. In federal court as a matter of common law, this privilege attaches to the witness spouse; that is, the defendant’s spouse can refuse to testify against the defendant, but the defendant may not prevent his or her spouse from testifying against the defendant.
whodoneit: What an interesting comment. I have dealt with spousal testimonial privilege in some of my own cases, but never in the context of Domestic Partners, and wonder what would happen if Mr. Price or Mr. Zaborsky cuts a deal that would require him to testify against the other. Very interesting. I will try to look into it. I do know that if they were to get married now under the new law, the privilege would not extend to conduct/statements that took place prior to the marriage (i.e., no retroactive application).
Here’s my take on DC law on the subject:
The law of marital privilege in DC is that spouses (now inclusive of Registered Domestic Partners) are considered “competent but not compellable to testify for or against each other,” except as to confidential communications. This privilege rests with the witness-spouse, meaning that a criminal defendant can’t prevent his spouse from testifying against him if the potential witness-spouse WANTS to testify – and the government can’t FORCE an unwilling spouse to testify against their defendant-spouse. So, for example, (1) if Victor WANTED to testify against Joe about something he saw Joe do, he could and Joe couldn’t prevent it, and (2) if Victor DIDN’T WANT to testify against Joe, the government can’t force him to.
AND the exception as to “confidential communications” is significant – things communicated within the “privacy” of their relationship that the spouse didn’t see or otherwise have knowledge about – Joe could prevent Victor from testifying as to those communications even if Victor wanted to testify. In other words, if Joe confided to Victor that he did a particular act, then Joe could prevent Victor from taking the stand as to those comments. See #2 below for the legal authority.
I am a lawyer, but in California, not DC, AND I don’t practice criminal law. There are limitations to this privilege, including that the privilege doesn’t apply if a third party heard the communications at the same time (in some states).
Too, I’ve often wondered if Joe misrepresented the privilege to Victor.
______________
#1
Domestic Partnership Equality Amendment Act of 2006, DC Law 16-79, effective April 4, 2006. By this act in almost all cases a domestic partner will have the same rights as a spouse.
Section 2 changes the law regarding competency of witnesses in civil and criminal cases by striking references to husband and wife and replacing them with spouse or domestic partner regarding their testimony against one another. This section also exempts clergy from testifying about the confidential counseling provided to domestic partners.
#2
D.C. Code Section 14-306 provides:
(a) In civil and criminal proceedings, a husband or his wife is competent but not compellable to testify for or against the other.
(b) In civil and criminal proceedings, a husband or his wife is not competent to testify as to any confidential communications made by one to the other during the marriage.
Bea, the information on DC Law 16-79 is very, very useful. Thanks!
I looked into it a long while ago as it may have related to Victor choosing to testify – it’s at least a year old so there’s some chance it’s stale.
I sincerely hope that this doesn’t come up in this trial.
“Too, I’ve often wondered if Joe misrepresented the privilege to Victor.”
Presumably Victor’s lawyer would have straightened things out by now.
Has it been clearly established that the scream heard by the neighbors came from 1509 Swann? The timeline is very important in this case, but it seems to be based mainly on the neighbors’ testimony that they heard a scream at some point during the night newscast. But unless it can be established that the scream they heard came from 1509 Swann, then the timeline isn’t firmly established. Have the neighbors testified clearly and convincingly that the scream they heard definitely came from 1509, rather than from the street, or the alley, or somewhere else? If they can’t do that, the timeline is shot.
CC,
From all reports yesterday, the neighbors withstood defense questioning on these points, and established that they heard a scream come from the 2nd floor guest room of 1509 Swann Street, and that it was between 11 and 11:30.
They tried to say it came from street, or elsewhere, but they were firm in their recollections.
David
CCB: The Thomases shared a common wall with 1509. Their bedroom was directly adjacent to the room Robert was found in.
Thanks. By the way, why do you think there was a scream? Wone was probably incapacitated, so it wasn’t from him. Was it one of the housemates? If so, doesn’t that suggest that someone in the house didn’t know what was going on and was surprised to find out. If that interpretation is correct, then it is all the more suprising that this person has not seperated himself from the others.
It has been proposed that Victor provided a scream at some point in dicovering the body.
I agree with Bea, it was Victor who screamed when he saw Robert. And, kudos for the Thomases.
I am new to this site and want to first say how much I appreciate the both the spirit in which it was created and the dedication to the truth of its creators. While I can’t say I “know” the defendants, I know of them. We ran in similar and, at times, overlapping social circles. I am sure that I have met each of them at one point or another, which is what makes this case so absolutely riveting to me. In many ways, Joe, Victor and Dylan are me. In both public and private ways, our lives are similar, which makes it all the more difficult for me to imagine them committing this heinous crime. Common sense says one or more of them was involved, but there is as much in the prosecution’s theory of what happened that doesn’t make sense as there is in the trouple’s explanation of events.
Anyhoo, something has been nagging me that perhaps someone here can help explain. THe theory is that Robert was drugged, restrained or otherwise incapacitated prior to being stabbed. Did he submit to this willingly? If not, why didn’t he fight back or try to escape? Or did he? If he did submit to being drugged or restrained, does that suggest there is a side of Robert we don’t know?
Members of the gay community have suggested time and again and for four years now that there might have been a “side of Robert we don’t know.” This is something that that even the defendants vigorously deny, and not one scintilla of evidence has ever been produced to the contrary. Stop blaming the victim here.
I don’t think that repetition of thought is limited to the gay community. It scares me that it’s 2010 and people think that just because a man will spend the night in the home of a gay friend, he must be at least bi.
I spent the night in a hotel. Does that make me polyamorous?
I’m not blaming the victim. I’m keeping an open mind and asking questions about what doesn’t make sense. It seems to me that if Robert were injected with a drug that incapacitated him, he would have had to have remained still for the injection. And, if here were forcibly restrained against his will, he would’ve fought back. It is possible he was incapacitated by inhalants and surprised from behind. To assume Robert was blindsided by an attack from one of the roommates suggests one or more of them put some significant planning into the events of the night (having an incapacitating drug on hand, syringes, and a motive for wanting Robert dead.) None of those things have been established. I am left to ask whether or not Robert (whether tricked or otherwise) allowed himself to be put in a position where he was eventually virtually defenseless. (And I ask this without prejudice to Robert’s sexual orientation.) Maybe someone offered him a drug to relax him? I don’t know. I’m just raising a question here.
Something could have been put in his drink first, then something else injected subsequently.
It’s be covered ad nauseum here. Robert was straight. And very happily married.
Until this incident, most people would’ve said the same thing about Joe and Victor.
Eds,
Were the trouple seated together yesterday or were they separated? Dylan separated from J and V?
As a follow up to the previous post’s discussion on the sub-conscious mind affecting our conscious thoughts and actions, I re-listened to the 911 call and this statement by Zaborsky seemed odd to me:
“My partner is downstairs with him [Wone] right now. He [Price] told me to go upstairs and call police IMMEDIATELY.” (emphasis added)
I hope I’m not reading too much into the word choice, but I believe if I needed someone to call 911 I would simply shout, “Call 911!” I don’t think I’d say “call 911 and do so immediately,” as the need for immediacy would be implicit in the fact that we need to call 911.
So, could Zaborsky’s knowledge of a delay in calling 911 have caused him to feel the need to explain-away a problem the 911 operator was unaware of. Why the heck else would you make sure to tell the operator that you were calling immediately?
This strikes me as another example of what appears to be an attempt to get their version of the story-line on record (such as “the intruder,” “we heard the chime,” “we don’t know who did it,” “we called police immediately,” etc.) in hopes that it is accepted as reality.
Good point. I agree that the call contains lots of statements that wouldn’t be made naturally in the course of an emergency 911 call.
On the other hand, if Victor was hysterical-freaking out as Joe claimed during his interrogation, I can imagine him saying ‘go upstairs NOW’ as a direct command, to get him moving – some people stand around jibbering when they panic.
If Xylene was found in the autopsy, where did it come from and statistically how often does it show up in people who haven’t either worked with solvents recently or “huffed ” it? Is it used to enhance sexual pleasure? Would it be something one would administer to someone to knock them out? In thinking on this it makes me wonder if this was a sexual encounter either forced or consensual that went awry. Xylene is dangerous and could cause cardiac arrest in small doses. Perhaps prosecution believed the presence of the drug was enough to cast doubt on murder vs accidental overdose and that the stabbing was possibly a coverup and not the only cause of death. I know Ive said something similar in a prior post but there I hypothesized about administering an injection and not on the Xylene. Could still be a drug and rape scenario with some unknown agent plus adding the Xylene to try to force involuntary sexual arrousal. Always wondered why they weren’t going for a murder charge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylene
xylene does not seem like a drug that could be used to force “involuntary sexual arousal”. It just seems to be a potentially intoxicating drug that would more likely just give you a headache and/or make you puke.
This may be way off base, but the party drug GBL (similar to GHB) is sold as a solvent. There are many different types of solvents that are generically used and reffered to as “G”. WHen taken in small doses, it produces a euphoric feeling and enhances sex substantially. But, it is extremely easy to overdose on which can, in a matter of minutes, cause one to lose conciousness. Is it possible that the water Robert drank before bed was dosed?
i’ve also wondered about whether the water was doctored.
No evidence of that on the glass, but hey, who says the glass from which Robert drank didn’t go the way of the bed and bath linen.
You don’t need a drug when you have an e-stim, and if you don’t believe me, ask me how breeding large animals in zoos— or do a search on XTube, whichever is more your style!
carolina, thank you for explaining that. i was mortified to ask, but i understand more now.
Does anyone know if any of the three defendants took a lie detector test, and if so, have the results been made public?
I read the transcript of the police interview with Joe Price, which describes Price’s willingness to take one. I may have read somewhere that Dylan took one.
I’ve also been curious about the lie detector test. I thought Ward took one but the results were never posted.
They have never been posted because they have never been released.
One can only imagine why, though there was talk that he’d “passed” it. If that were the case, one would think it would be plastered hither and yon.
I’d heard that too, then the defense filed a Motion to Suppress that was rendered moot since the prosecution didn’t intend to introduce it – I’m guessing he failed or it was inconclusive. But that’s a guess.
Keep in mind that lie detector tests aren’t admissible in court. Their primary function is to point investigators in more or less likely areas of discovery.
-Doug, co-editor
Yet, Doug, will the results of the polygraph test given to Mr. Ward ever be released for historians, rather than for mere lawyers, to ponder? While not admissible in court, the results may shed more light on the personality and motives of the enigmatic would-be-diplomat-turned-bodyworker. Hence, to me, they should be released eventually, if only after the final verdicts.
Is FOIA relevant here?
If there is a fault line developing, what good would it do at this point? Is the only way out of a shared fate for any of these three to cut a deal with the prosecutor?
Now that the trial has started, is it too late to attempt a plea deal?
It is never too late to attempt a plea deal.
A defendant can attempt to cut a deal anytime prior to the verdict. Whether the Prosecutor will be receptive will depend on many factors, including how the Prosecutor feels about the strength of his/her case. In my experience, the longer a trial goes on, the more difficult it gets to cut a deal.
dcbill – Judge Leibovitz will rule on each of the three defendants separately. So while she is hearing a case alleging conspiracy of the three, each can sink or swim in the judge’s ruling.
-Doug, co-editor
I have a question. If the defendants are telling the truth about the burglar, then, when Victor called 911, why did he only ask for an ambulance, and not for the police to go to the back alley where the burglar was escaping?
Bob,
What a smart question. Why NOT ask for an ambulance AND police to check out the back of the house.
David
Is that a question that the prosecutor can ask on cross-examination if any of the defendants testify?
In all fairness, I suspect that if I had a friend dead or dying in my guest room, I would be screaming for an ambulance and might not even think of the police. In fact, I am pretty sure I’d just assume the police would come when I reported a stabbing.
That said, that call is so odd that I can’t put it all down to natural reaction on Victor’s part.
Regarding asking for ambulance only. In 911 call VIctor was specifically asked “Do you need police, fire, or ambulance? Not what do you need? So, to try to figure out how you would respond…you have a friend dying in your guest room. BUT, not only that, he was stabbed! And you are scared to go down the stairs!! If it was me….send them all, send the National Guard, send the FBI, send the 82nd Airborne….HELP HELP HELP! I would have answered, “Yes, send the police and ambulance! I’m afraid the intruder is still in house!”
Well said! What is said and left unsaid in the 911 call is troubling and possibly damning.
This is a very insightful question. But, I wonder if it is too logical given the emotion of the moment. I realize that most people here believe the “who done it” is solved, but assuming that it isn’t, isn’t it forceable that the only thing that Victor thought of was of Wone?
Victor, was concerned for himself too. He said so. He was scared to go down stairs.
The 911 call is full of valuable little nuggets that make the call seem very scripted and very poorly acted. (The forced crying at the end seemed obviously fake.) And I thought these types were supposed to be good at drama!
Yes, in their Anacostia dialogues and elsewhere, the trouple has broken many stereotypes about urban gay men: they apparently were NOT good actors, hosts, gourmets, raconteurs, friends, etc., if the prosecution is to be believed. Indeed, conviviality did not seem present at Swann in any form that night. How unfortunate for us all!
Yeah, and somebody engaged in false sterotyping when tossing Mr. Wone’s clothing into a pile. Someone simply assumed that just because Mr. Wone was straight, he wouldn’t take care of his clothing.
An error that may yet have consequences.
By “these types,” do you mean accused murderers? Possible sociopaths?
Bingo. Victor claimed that he was frightened to go downstairs because he thought the killer could still be down there. He claims he had this fear *while* he was on the phone with 911. But if Victor was thinking in terms of ‘there may be an (unknown) murderer in my house right now,’ he certainly would have asked for police as well as (or instead of) the ambulance.
I believe Price mentioned Victor being scared as well… to me this “scared to go downstairs” business is cover for why they didn’t hear, see, or try to chase the killer on his way out.
Especially when Victor indicated he was too afraid to go down the stairs for fear of the intruder.
What are the theories of how Wone’s semen got into his rectum?
I struggled with the same question. With the help of this blog, I found from the June 1, 2009 WaPo article (page 5) that Ward had an electronic stimulative device in his room that is capable of causing a sedated or otherwise nonparticipatory male to ejaculate. So my theory is that this device was used while decedent was alive but incapacitated and then in the course of the continued sexual activity the semen was transferred to the rectum.
Thank you very much. I found and read the article. Is it a certainty that Mr. Wone was straight?
It seems to be. But I don’t think it matters really.
I don’t think there’s anything suggests otherwise. Before I dug into this case, I had the same question in mind since it sounds a bit strange that a straight guy would sleep over at a gay household. But it turned out it was the only night he’s been there and he send emails to two of his friends who live in D.C. area to ask for a sleepover that night and Price was the first one to respond so he picked him.
And there are also straight men and women who would not think twice about spending the night at a gay or lesbian friend’s home. I know, shocking, isn’t it? Best they not be killed there, or their sexuality will forever be in question.
good point carolina.
Or they’ll be treated like any woman would be – she probably led him on, she probably asked for it.
Amen.
What is up with the MPD of DC? Didn’t anyone think about the Maranda Law? What is up with the DC Medical Examiner? Do they give these people any training? Throwing away evidence? The person should be fired! And how about the flagrant errors in the autopsy? Comments?
I don’t understand the question about Miranda. It is true that the police apparently botched the investigation, but not because they didn’t read the residents their rights. The motion to exclude the statements of the residents was thrown out by the judge because a Miranda warning was not required, because they were not suspects, only witnesses. I agree that the case was handled badly, but not with regard to Miranda. I haven’t seen the autopsy report. Has it been posted to this site? What are the flagrant errors? I agree that there have been too many errors, which is one of the reasons that there has been no murder charge, and no trial until now.
OK. The Medical Examiner who handled Robert’s body did not test for any of the important items that might have been injected into his body. There was also a statement in the autopsy that Robert started to digest the blood. Someone commented that this was a rediculous statement for a medical examiner to make. As for the Miranda warnings, when someone starts to take statements, it is customary to read the individual his rights. And if the individual asks for an attorney – then by all means he should at least be given that option – don’t just push ahead as if it was not addressed.
They did a tox screen, and it was negative.
As for the statement that Wone had started to digest his own blood, I don’t think that was in the autopsy. I could be wrong, but my recollection is that the autopsy only said how far the blood had traveled in the small intestine. I think the “digested” part was introduced later by someone else who had read the autopsy report and misunderstood it.
I agree that much of this investigation was botched, but the autopsy report reads like it was fairly well done to me. I’m hoping the ME did a good job documenting everything with photographs and that her findings hold up on cross examination.
You are incorrect. The blood was being digested, which is a chemical process. One need not go back more than a week for this clarification.
John, I would suggest you read more, and more carefully.
Indeed not. Everything asked has been discussed ad nauseum. It doesn’t seem reasonable to rehash it again.
Did the cops search or do any examination of Dylan’s room or other rooms in the house on the night of the murder? When did the defendants first get access to the house after the events of that evening. It seems to me that it is unlikely that Robert was murdered in the guest room. In which room was the inadmissible blood evidence found?
Well done eds for the good coverage (and continuous effort).
A few thoughts from my side: I’m very (pleasantly) surprised by Kathy’s testimony. I didn’t think her testimony would’ve been that informative since she wasn’t there that evening.
Apart from showing Joe’s evident lack of sympathy; his vivid description to Kathy re the stabs contradicts his evasiveness to police.
Of all the people involved in the trouple’s lives, Sarah seems the wisest – she moved out immediately.
+1…like to know more about her. You move out no matter what, intruder or know the trouples involvement. Does not matter. Is she being called to testify in the case?
About yesterdays testimony by the EMT, he stated that Robert was in PEA or pulseless electrical activity. This is NOT the same as “flatline” which is called asystole. If a patient is in PEA, that means there is still electrical activity in the heart and the patient could possibly be revived. That could explain all the lines and other needle punture marks that were possibly placed at the emergency room. It could explain the needle puncture to the heart which is often done in order to drain blood from the pericardium in cases of pericarial tamponade which is one of the many causes of PEA. Have the emergency room records ever been released?
I don’t recall ever having seen them.
I agree with you that the needle marks could have all been made at the hospital. In fact, this seems more likely to me. I’ve never bought into the “injected paralytic” theory. He’d have to be fairly still (i.e. already restrained) for an IV injection, and he had no signs of a struggle on him. An intramuscular injection would have been possible but not very plausible. Even the fastest IM drugs will take a few seconds to take effect, and the person you just injected is probably going to take a swing at you in the meantime. If Robert Wone was drugged, I think the most likely route was either oral (i.e. his water was drugged) or inhaled (i.e. the rag over the mouth routine that you see in the movies).
I agree with you on the point that PEA and a “flatline” are two different things. I suspect that you don’t see a true “flatline” on the monitor when you’re in an ambulance, because everything is jostling around so much, and it interferes with the monitors. My guess is that he was trained to assume it was PEA and proceed with a resuscitation.
There is zero reason for either the EMTs or the hospital to have inflicted the puncture wounds on the feet. They can account for those they did cause, and are just as capable of stating which were not. There are punctures that are unaccounted for by medical personnel and those are in locations for which there would be no reason to attempt to start a line or injection.
I disagree. I’ve put IVs in people’s feet before, and I don’t think it would be all that unusual for someone to try to get a line in someone’s foot during a trauma resuscitation. As far as I know, we haven’t seen the ER notes, so I think it’s presumptuous to say that there are punctures that are unaccounted for by medical personnel. We really don’t know one way or the other.
They said they didn’t. Call me crazy, but considering they seemed certain about that, and considering he appeared to have been “dead for some time,” I’m going to side with the professionals in this one. YMMV, of course.
What about the murder weapon? If one of the housemates killed Wone with a knife other than the one found at the scene, then where is it? There wasn’t much time to get rid of it, and a knife can’t be washed down a drain. Shouldn’t the knife be somewhere nearby the house? This is the type of thing that police departments are actually pretty good at finding.
Storm drain. Trash can down the street. Or someone else could have been there and taken it with them. If the knife at the crime scene wasn’t the murder weapon, I’m not terribly surprised the actual weapon hasn’t been found. I’d guess that most urban areas offer lots of hiding places for something like that. The critical thing here is whether or not the defense can create doubt about the prosecution’s theory that the knife at the scene isn’t the murder weapon. I think they’ll be able to do this, but if they don’t, Joe Price is pretty much toast.
These are the places that get searched by the cops (plus lots of other places). Remember, even under the prosecution’s theory, the housemates didn’t have hours to find the perfect hiding place for the knife. They had minutes, and they had a lot of other things to do too. The murder weapon almost certainly would be located nearby the house. There are only so many trash cans and storm drains to search. If the prosecution’s theory is correct, the knife should have been found.
I think Bill’s right, that the knife and bloody towels were likely taken away by someone. Or one of the defendants took a fast 10 minute walk to a commercial dumpster on Connecticut Ave.
Someone, not an elf but a real person who maybe walked in the front door using his key for example, might have taken much of the incriminating stuff away.
In an ideal world, yes. But this was not one of the best crime scene investigations. I took them weeks to investigate the next-door neighbors, after all. And since there was already a knife at the crime scene, I don’t think anyone would have known that the murder weapon was potentially missing until the autopsy report came back.
To my knowledge the storm drain in the alley behind 1509 Swann was not dredged (or whatever one would have to do to search it). That drain has openings large enough to fit any size knife. A towel would be more difficult.
CCBiggs – and what we’ve learned this week from the defense is that they will provide testimony that not only is the knife recovered on scene the murder weapon, but that the missing knife from Dylan Ward’s cutlery collection was never in DC, but – apparently – found in Seattle. Although, looking back on the exact wording of Mr. Schertler’s opening comments (not evidence, mind you) that exact claim is not quite so clear.
-Doug, co-editor
Even if the knife at the scene was the murder weapon, I don’t see how that helps the defendants that much. It reduces the number of their lies by one, but still seems to leave plenty.
If the knife is in Seattle why not give someone a FedEx number and produce it?
Or better yet, see if there was a FED EX to that address shortly after August 06.
Does this “Seattle” address have any connection to the Ward family? If so, isn’t it a bit unfathomable to leave just one specialty knife out of a set at your parents’, sibling’s, or cousin’s home? Schertler, you have got to do better than this crap!
Well, if they do produce this knife the authorities need to check it for a manufacturers match to the other one in the set. There could be two sets. Dylan’s could (horrors) be just identical to Daddy’s.
And seriously, who gives a *partial* carving set? Ridiculous.
With the *knife* missing. And keeps the packaging for just two pieces– really, that is just ridiculous.
I was wondering…I read the other day that when cross of Mrs. Wone was made by Jakob’s defense, he got her to acknowledge that Jakob was a quiet man, or shy or something. I guess the implication being that it wouldnt have been unusual for Price to do the talking alone when the housemates were all together.
My thought — has the prosecution thought about challenging that assertion simply by pointing out the fact that he was/is? a lobbyist. How many quiet, shy lobbyists does anyone know?
Okay, now I’m confused. Who is Jakob?
I think he means Victor.
Oh thank you. I thought I had completely missed something!
I am so sorry. I did mean Victor. My apologies. (That’s what I get for watching Lost last night…) This was my first post. I am a “she”.
That made me laugh; thank you. Maybe Jakob was the intruder! Everything else in the story seems vaguely “Lost.”
And Dylan Ward, aside from being a sex worker, excuse me, “erotic masseur”, was also a successful fundraiser. None of these men were shrinking violets.
Dylan went to PMTI and was is a certified massage therapist. Where did you get the he was an erotic masseur?
From his very own online profile. Erotic massage, in calls, out calls. You should read his reviews!
Funny that you’d know where he graduated from, but not what he chose to do with it.
Hi Carolina, I went to the same massage school but had never seen his ads. Very interesting as I thought that he was practicing therapeutic massage. Ha
Tests were performed to determine the presence of:
“…ethanol, acetone, methanol, isopropanol…amphetamines, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, cocaine metabolites, methadone, methamphetamines, opiates, phencyclidine (PCP), propoxyphene…gamma-hydroxybutyrate…(and) carbon monoxide…”
All tests were negative – or in the normal range. It is now certain that NO testing was done for ketamine.
And since ketamine has a short half-life, with residue testing at its limits at 2-4 days, not 2-4 years, all parties can safely assume any further testing on the remaining blood samples will never show positive for ketamine.
Now we fully understand why, at an earlier status hearing, Zaborsky counsel Tom Connolly was more than happy to let the government exhaust any remaining amounts of Robert Wone’s blood.
When it comes to ketamine in this case, there’s just no there there.
Any reasonable person who reads today’s WaPo article – http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/18/AR2010051805001.html – should conclude the 3 men are guilty.
Consider the following:
“`The person has one of our knives,’ Zaborsky said.”
Oh really? Then that destroys the defense argument a couple days ago where they tried to claim that the missing knife was in Seattle, because the previous owner of the knife set decided to keep that one knife and gave away the rest of the knife set to the 3 guys.
“Zaborsky said the chime went off when the intruder left the house.”
So Zaborsky heard the chime when the intruder left, but he didn’t hear it when the intruder came in?
“he arrived at the house and first saw Zaborsky outside on the front stoop wearing a terry-cloth robe talking on the telephone.”
So then Zaborsky was lying when he told the 911 operator, “I’m afraid to go downstairs.”
“Baker said Ward ignored him and went back into his bedroom.”
Only a psycho would behave like that.
“Wone `was lying flat on his back, looking straight up, with three stab wounds to his chest.'”
So then Price was lying when he told Kathy, “Robert has been stabbed in the back.” (Although I guess that was true in a figurative sense.)
“She said Price held his arm out as if he had a knife and said he had heard three grunts, making the grunts each time he swung his arm downward, imitating a stabbing.”
Only a psycho would behave like that.
slwapo,
Thank you for pointing out the flagrant false statements of Victor and Joe. How could Victor know of someone having one of their knives when they just discovered Robert’s body?
I have always been bothered by Joe’s statement to Kathy re stabbing in the back and his reenactment of the stabbing. How would he know how Robert was stabbed without actually witnessing the stabbing?
Many thanks to the editors for this website. I recently found your site and am so grateful that so many want truth and justice for Robert.
I listened to the 911 call for the first time today, and in addition to the observations that others have made, I was struck by the I/we dichotomy in Victor’s statements in the call. For example, he said “we heard a chime” and “we ran down the stairs,” but he said “I don’t know” when asked who had stabbed Robert. Could his use of the I/we pronouns on the call have been subsconsciously distinguishing the collective, agreed-upon statements from the instances when he’s giving his own firsthand account?
Editors, I just adore Mr. Hennessey’s sketches — they have the right combo of “mass” and “class” that the Grahams achieved so well.
It is too bad that you cannot record the “knowing laughs” or the heated exchanges in sound files for us all to hear, but your detailed reporting leaves little out. Keep up your yeoman’s work, guys! XO, Clio.
Question for criminal lawyers –
In civil bench trials the judge will issue detailed findings of fact and then reach his/her conclusions of law based on the facts. (I haven’t litigated in over 15 years and last bench trial was 1988.) In criminal bench trials does the judge issue similar findings or does he/she simply make a finding of guilty/not guilty?
The Judge usually makes a simple ruling of guilt or innocence with a brief explanation as to why. However, in this case, depending on the outcome, the Judge will likely give a very lengthy explanation for the record esp if the Defendants are found guilty.
in my experience, whether the judge makes detailed findings of fact and conclusions of law in a criminal bench trial depends on the judge and the case. i have no experience before this judge, but based upon everything i have read about her and the case, i predict that she will make detailed findings of fact.
What’s the protocol for sitting in the audience at the courtroom? Is there a line to get in?
A line formed the other day before the doors opened. It is first come, first serve. The courtroom is not big. If it is full, you can go to the overflow courtroom and listen to the audio feed. Then, as the trial proceeds, if you get up, your seat is open to the next person. Most people, except the press, stayed put throughout the entire proceeding.
Do you know how long the wait is to get in? Thank you.
By the way, what was the purpose of swapping the knives at the crime scene? Both knives were in the house at the time of the killing, so I don’t see how swapping one for the other really helps the housemates. (I realize that one of the knives may have been stored in another room rather than in kitchen, but the housemates could have simply told the police that both were kept in the kitchen.) But by swapping the knives, the housemates exposed themselves to much greater suspicion if and when the forensic analysis showed that the knife at the crime scene was not the knife that killed Wone. In other words, there was a big risk in swapping the knives, but not a big benefit in doing so. I don’t get it.
I don’t know either, but it has been theorized that this knife exists somewhere in safe keeping (ie: not at the bottom of a bay) thus insuring the continued silence of those who were in contact with it. This sounds like the stuff of film-maker’s imaginations but the knife that killed Robert is not the one that was at the scene, this much we know, and it is a fact that is in and of itself so odd that odd theories naturally gestate from it.
Assuming there was a knife swap, I can think of several possibilities. For starters, I don’t think it was planned very well, and it may have been just a boneheaded thing to do. Also, I’m guessing (with absolutely nothing to back it up) that the knife at the crime scene was one that was typically in some sort of knife block in the kitchen–in other words, out in the open and easy to see when you walk into the kitchen, and not something that would normally be kept in a drawer. So it was something an intruder would be likely to grab before silently going up the stairs. The knife missing from the case in Dylan’s room, even if it were kept in the kitchen, would likely be in either a case or at least in a drawer. I suppose they could have said they just happened to leave it out on the kitchen table that night, but that would sound even more implausible than everything else we’ve heard.
My guess (again, with nothing to back it up) is that one of the three of them has a strong sentimental attachment to this knife. Another possibility is that they couldn’t bear to let the police have it.
The knife swap bothers me, too. I see it as part of the larger oddness of blood apparently being cleaned up from the guest bedroom, with Mr. Wone’s body being found in the cleaned-up room, resting on top of a neatly turned-back bed.
Here are several possible explanations:
One hypothesis would be that the knife disappeared as part of a hastily-abandoned Plan A. At some point, someone decided that a knife was needed, but the original knife was no longer available.
Alternatively, perhaps someone believed, correctly or otherwise, that the original knife would contain some particularly incriminating forensic evidence, and had to be replaced with a ‘cleaner’ knife.
In his taped interrogation, Mr. Price confidently asserted that the knife would contain forensic evidence of someone who shouldn’t have been there. (AFAIK, nothing was found). But maybe that particular knife had been handled earlier by someone suitable for casting as an intruder–and then the lab simply missed the DNA or prints.
You may want to talk to a forensics expert about this. I think it’s fairly common for people to cut themselves when they’re stabbing someone/something–your hand slides down the handle of the knife during the impact and can graze the blade. If that had happened, you’d definitely have to get rid of the knife.
I keep coming back to a Plan (A) and Plan (B) scenario too, but in my thinking Plan (A) was to dispose of Robert and say that he got up and left early never to be seen again. Imagine the headlines: “Mysterious Disappearance of DC Lawyer Continues.” Nefarious enemies of Radio Free Asia would be suspected, but not Robert’s good friends. In fact it seems like Joe is still stuck on this defense of himself regardless of how ill-fitting it is to current circumstances.
I think that it is a possibility that by the time the WJLA-TV newscaster Maureen Bunyan was broadcasting first part of Plan (A) was underway, the clean-up had been done, bloody stuff bagged and taken away and Robert’s body was cleaned up of any DNA (showered or washed lying on the bathroom floor, remember it’s ok for there to have been plenty of water there, Joe has an explanation for that) and ready to be removed. That plan was spoiled by Victor making an uncharacteristic foray down from his boudoir during hours when he usually could be counted on the cower behind closed doors or take a pill. Victor screams so Plan (B) must be put into motion, which includes calling 911 and formulating the elves fiction. The incriminating stuff with the knife included is already on its way someplace but that can’t be helped. For some reason, Joe decided that there SHOULD be a knife (this in spite of telling Victor to tell the 911 operator that “they have one of our knives”), so he goes down to the kitchen to get one, voilà!
Maybe a half hour later someone, Michael for example, returns to get the body for transport only to see police cars and flashing lights on Swann Street and knows better than to go back up to the house, the jig if not being up the game certainly having changed.
It strikes me as strange that Victor would say, “They HAVE one of our knives,” as opposed to “They HAD one of our knives.” If his story is to be believed, then he would have had no reason whatsoever to think the alleged intruder was still in possession of the murder weapon.
Maybe the person who took too many towels also took the knife, then someone realized it would be better to have the weapon found.
Sounds logical to me. Or the ‘real’ knife was too personal (as in didn’t ‘live’ in the kitchen) or there was too much DNA and not enough time to clean it well.
Nora’s point below is a good one – that it would be ‘best’ if the cops were not off hunting for the murder weapon in trash cans (in case some evidence was stashed) thus the need to leave ‘a’ murder weapon.
Odd with Victor’s word choice AND the fact when the 911 dispatcher misunderstands Victor and says the intruder ‘left’ the house with one of their knives – and Victor agrees with this statement – that it seems he just doesn’t remember the story he’s supposed to tell and leaves it kind of vague.
Yeah, he went “immediately” to call 911 upon seeing Robert. That’s why he has way too many facts to give the dispatcher about the ‘intruder(s)’ and the knives – and uses distancing wording and passive tense. It’s preposterous. If he’d awakened to grunt/screams, descended the stairs and found his ‘stabbed’ friend, and he was (immediately) tasked to making the call while Joe tended to Robert, his story would have been “my friend was stabbed and we need an ambulance and the police.” That’s all he would have known – and presumably he’d have said “I have to go to where he is to answer your question” followed by a lot of clomping downstairs and then lots of yelling to get answers from Joe, maybe even switching jobs so Joe could say what he knew. Of course at some point, one of them might have wondered if Dylan was dead or not, may have screamed exactly that as they paused to check on him. . .
bea,
You are absolutely on target with the fatal flaws of both Victor’s and Joe’s ridiculous statements. Who talks like Victor on a 911 call when you have just discovered your friend stabbed in your house?
Thanks for your insightful posts!
That’s an interesting thought about the possibility of Michael returning to get the body for transport. It could explain why Victor was standing out in front of the house talking on the phone. He may have been there to warn someone away.
That is an interesting thought Bill. We do know that he lied to the dispatcher when he said that he was afraid to go downstairs because he was downstairs to meet the EMTs when they arrived. So, he lied about that, why?
Mr. Zaborsky went downstairs after the 911 operator specifically asked him to let the EMTs enter. Otherwise, they would have been stymied by the locked front door.
We can derive the timings from the 911 tape, which show that Mr. Zaborsky was at the front door only very briefly.
AnnaZed, your conjecture about Victor’s discovery causing a change in plans made sense of a number of things, but then raised a few more questions for me. As someone here had suggested, I’d been thinking that the three wounds inflicted on Robert’s still body might have meant that whoever inflicted them might have believed Robert to be dead from an overdose but attempted to cover that up with the stabbing and “intruder” story; and that perhaps each of the trouple had inflicted one wound as a way of ensuring their mutual complicity. Your theory–besides eliminating Victor from that event, which has come to seem more apt– then raises the question of: why inflict wounds if they were going to get rid of the body? One possible Ans: so that if the body was found, the cause of death would be assumed to be from a violent attack when Robert was out, which would minimize subsequent investigation at Swann St. -?- And another question: why three wounds if Victor wasn’t then involved? –To me, this makes more likely the possibility of a third person, such as Michael, being involved as well. Your comment on Victor being downstairs possibly to warn someone off fits well with that.–Your thoughts?
You know, I’ve never given much thought to the theory that the body was going to be dumped, but if you think about the poor reception the hosts gave him, maybe they were intentionally limiting any evidence that he had ever been there.
I have thought about that too. Seems strange that Robert arrives around 10:30 and they all drink a glass of water and go to bed. I mean these are young men and 10:30 isn’t exactly late.
Cecily & Carolina-
One shouldn’t automatically assume that the defendants’ account of chitchat over water, spider, shower, and to bed is accurate.
The prosecution will likely contend that Mr. Wone never took a shower (no towel?), and that the sloppy pile of clothing suggests that Mr. Wone didn’t get to undress himself. If you accept these contentions, it suggests that whatever happened to Mr. Wone began happening very quickly after his arrival.
Absolutely possible, but again, IF the story is true, one has to wonder why they’d be so parsimonious.
DonnaH, perhaps Robert was not completely unconscious, merely drugged and he made it known to the assailant(s) in some way that he knew what was happening. (Perhaps he said something or looked at him/them or resisted in some way.) Hence, the assailant(s) decided they needed to kill Robert to protect themselves from being arrested for sexual assault.
Yes, I think that there was someone else there, not a phantom “intruder” but another participant who came and went through the doors in a conventional way.
Maybe they finally found that fourth they were advertising for.
If the knife and bloody towels had been dumped in a trashcan nearby, there would be an enormous need to plant a knife at the scene – to make sure the cops didn’t scour the neighborhood for the missing weapon. And it seems to have worked.
Brilliant.
Good point.
annazed,must say you type pretty good english. i think you just couldnt come up with any comebacks for me so you used youre french on me youre #1 fan Dylan Wards cousin Dianne.
But that doesn’t explain why the knife was discarded in the first place. I see two reasons (as stated above):
1) All the stuff was discarded, as part of an orignial plan to say Robert either never was there or left in the morning. When the plan changed, they couldn’t get it back.
2) They simply didn’t think of putting Dylan’s remaining knives down in the kitchen. The thought process may have been (under a lot of pressure!): Knife used in attack came from Dylan’s room–we cannot have that as it doesn’t fit our intruder theory. So must get rid of knife. Then we must get actual knife from kitchen to fit with intruder theory.
Certainly seems like there was some confusion about the knife given Victor’s comments on the 911 call….
Why was the crime scene cleaned up in the first place? If he were killed by an intruder in the guestroom one would expect a bloody scene. There would be no reason to clean it up. I can come up with two theories. 1) Robert was killed in a different room and his body was moved to the guest bed to fit the intruder story, so the actual murder scene had to be cleaned up; 2) the one proposed by posters here that plan A was to make the death look like the result of a violent attack (thinking that Robert had died from overdose) dump the body in an alley. This would necessitate cleaning up the crime scene, so they did so. Then that plan was abandoned for some reason and the intruder-in-the-guestroom story concocted. I suppose a third possibility is that they feared that the killer’s blood might be found at the crime scene, but you would think the police would have checked them for cuts on their hands and fingers like O.J. had.
Where was Robert killed? If the intruder story had been concocted prior to killing Robert, then the plan that made the most sense would be to kill him in the guestroom. Then, no clean up would be necessary.
The time window for all the events that took place is such that my latest thought is that he was taken to the area of the drain and hose and killed there so there could be a no muss, no fuss cleanup, blood washed down the drain before it even had a chance to dry. That would be most consistent with theory 2, that they planned to dump the body in an alley or similar place where it would appear he was the victim of a street crime and for some reason that plan was abandoned and changed to the intruder in the guestroom. The problem they would have had with that approach, however, is there would have been insufficient blood in the alley and the knife wounds would have showed the lack of any struggle. I saw where one poster said in another thread that an execution in the location of the drain would have been potentially visible to others, so that might cast some doubt on this theory.
As to where, I’d look in those overly wet places that all of the defendants took great pains to explain away without being asked.
egc: Flat line corrected, thanks.
Greta: Victor is more marketer than lobbyist.
CCB: A knife swap would only make sense if it was covered with prints, right?
Henrik Ibsen’s The Dollhouse, of course, criticized the stultifying effects of Victorian propriety upon women trapped in bad marriages; this dollhouse at Moultrie is a testament to the equally toxic consequences of unbridled patriarchic rule within “a family” of men. The best intimate relationships are those of partners and friends; neither of which, on scrutiny, would describe the strange and estranged connections within the thin walls of 1509 Swann. “Not to scale,” indeed!
Clio, that’s a stretch worthy of a yoga instructor. None of us has actually had what could be accurately called a vantage point of “scrutiny” on the trouple’s relationships. Just a whole lot of assumptions occasionally described in prose purple enough for Prince to wear.
OTP, my post was geared squarely toward the trouple: as we know, most marriages, whether open or closed, hetero or homo or everything in between, have moved beyond patriarchy. Given those realities, the Price arrangements do seem a bit antique rather than to be radical portents of the New Jerusalem for gay men.
Spike, touche, dear, it is no secret that I love yoga instructors, Prince, and purple everything, but I do realize that feminist criticism of intimate power dynamics is at best an acquired taste for men-centered men. That fact does not make it any less insightful, given that Ma’am, in particular, seems still trapped in that dollhouse (many months after leaving Swann), still under the thumb of Culuket. Now, off to my morning constitutional plus stretching — ciao, Clio.
I don’t get it if Price is the dominant one making all decisions for everyone, then how come he was in a bondage submissive relationship with Ward?
I don’t even know where to start to explain this, so I’ll suggest googling “topping from below.”
Fantasy.
Can someone tell me about the six fresh needle marks found on Mr. Wone’s body? Is it a common practice for burglars carrying a needle instead of other more practical weapons (a knife for instance)around now-days?
The medical examiner found needle marks on Wone’s body. Some believe they were made by medical personnel during the course of trying to revive him.
Dark day, yes, but there was light, too: Kathy Wone, who awes me with her courage, grace and enduring love for her husband. I can’t imagine doing what she’s done. Clearly, Robert married the right woman.
Thanks to Craig, David, Doug and Michael for starting this online community and to its many contributors. As a legal studies student, I appreciate the education! As a human being, I take comfort in knowing so many others in DC and beyond seek justice for Robert Wone.
What is the significance of the cadaver dog alerting to the lint trap in the dryer? It seems to suggest that after Robert was killed, someone washed and then dried clothing, towels or bed linens. Was there enough time to do a load of laundry? Were there items in the dryer or had they been removed?
I just listened to the 911 call made by Victor. There are so many things wrong with it. One thing that stands out to me is that when Victor goes downstairs to let the paramedics in, his footsteps on the stairs are clearly audible. But no such steps can be heard during the time when it would appear he was descending from the third floor to the second as instructed by the 911 operator. Further, the call seems to suggest that Victor remained on the third floor for at least two minutes into the 911 call. Why? Especially when he’s being asked questions regarding the condition of the victim? Even if he did in fact go upstairs as Joe instructed, wouldn’t the natural instinct be to grab the phone and immediately go back downstairs? I think he didn’t make the call from upstairs, but rather got the phone and returned to the second floor where Joe coached him through it.
very interesting. just listened to the 911 call as well.
https://whomurderedrobertwone.com/2009/06/10/we-need-an-ambulance/911_call_copy/
apart from what others mentioned before, two things struck me —
(1) at 2:58 in the call, Victor seems to say “don’t press, don’t press… just like that..” — what was that about, aren’t they supposed to be pressing down on the wound?
(2) about 10 seconds after he opens the door, he starts to break down. did he go up the stairs and see something different that made him start to freak out, or was that just acting? and then he says “now it’s REALLY an emergency”! as if it weren’t before?
2:58 don’t press don’t press, just, just.. like that..
3:02 ok, is he breathing?
3:03 he’s breathing, but we need help now..
…
6:10 help us
…
6:20 [oh damn.. ] what is this.. [somebody killed..] what is this… now it’s REALLY an emergency… i mean, he may be dead!
Hey HKG,
I think at 2:58 Victor is saying “don’t touch, don’t touch” which makes me think he’s instructing Joe NOT to disturb evidence (am curious as to WHAT since Joe claims to have moved the knife right away).
But I do think you’re right that at 6:20 – and I hadn’t heard this before – he says “I mean he may be dead!” but that he stops before finishing the word DEAD. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve listened, and I wish we could get a copy of the enhanced tape – it is quite strange that Victor knows this but hasn’t passed this along to the 911 operator while she’s been asking about breathing, consciousness, etc.
I’ve read several media accounts (and here) that the lengthier call ends with Victor telling EMTs or police (had they arrived before the 7 minute version ended?) that the back door may be unlocked. This, like many things, is contrary to all three’s statement during interrogations that Dylan “noticed” the door was unlocked after the police made them gather downstairs.
I made this point in an earlier post, but it was bugging me so I went back to scour the info some more.
In looking at the Swann Street pictures the Eds. found BEFORE Joe/Victor bought the house, it appears that the kitchen island would be blocking the view from the living room to the back door’s knob or dead bolt. Even if Dylan (or Victor in the 911 tape) is referencing something other than the door knob, from the vantage point of the photos, I don’t know how ANYONE could see whether the latch was vertical or horizontal from that distance even if the kitchen island wasn’t blocking it (and who knows whether all the lights were even on). See https://whomurderedrobertwone.com/2009/03/09/open-house/ for the structure of the kitchen/kitchen island when they moved in. Re Ward’s statement, on page 17 of of the interrogation transcript, Ward says that the police rounded them up and sent them downstairs to sit on the couch, and as he “was going downstairs” that he looked and saw that the deadbolt latch showed the door to be unlocked. https://whomurderedrobertwone.com/2010/04/14/the-third-degree-ward/.
Both Zaborsky and Price parroted this info in their statements (like they’d remember THIS detail but be vague on other things?), both “knowing” that Dylan was the one who first saw this when they were sent as a group downstairs. If so, why is Victor captured saying this on the 911 call?
One good detail leads to another – thanks, HKG!
Brilliant, HKG, and don’t stop, alpha girl, don’t stop! Then, why would Joe and Victor cede to Dyl the “honor” of being the first to note the unlocked door? And, as you state, WHAT on earth was Victor imploring Culuket (in or out of his undergarments?) not to touch?
Great details HKG and bea. Do you think Kirshner reads the posts? These are details that need to be explored.
thanks all, and Bea, you are right – “don’t touch, don’t touch”! Definitely, one good detail leads to another. glad to finally make a very small contribution after all of you have been at it for months and years..
I’ve listened to the tape several times, and have never been able to make out any of the behind-the-scenses dialogue. Great ears, HKG! If you picked out the dialogue correctly, it is particularly interesting as being a contemporaneous, probably unscripted conversation between Messrs. Zaborsky and (presumably) Price.
The dialogue suggests that Mr. Zaborsky wasn’t aware of the extent of Mr. Wone’s injuries (i.e., that he was dead) until that very moment. This would be consistent with his initially telling the 911 operator that Mr. Wone had been stabbed in the stomach, and then, later, in a voice of doom, saying that Mr. Wone had been stabbed “in the center of the chest.”
The implication of “really an emergency” (to me) is that perhaps Mr. Zaborsky earlier thought he was participating in some sort of charade. Whoever stabbed Mr. Wone in the chest, though, driving a 5-inch blade through bone and muscle and into Robert’s heart, was certainly not participating in any charade.
The hypothesis that follows is pure conjecture, based on the idea that Mr. Zaborsky didn’t think there was really an emergency until 6:20 into the 911 call.
Mr. Zaborsky watched ‘Project Runway’ until 11pm, then watched the Spike channel for a while, and then perhaps came downstairs. He was told that Mr. Wone was unconscious (not dead) after some embarrassing misadventure. Probably he had already been stabbed, but possibly not.
Maybe Mr. Zaborsky insisted on calling 911, and Plan A died and intruder story was born. Possibly Mr. Zaborsky was told that a little superficial cosmetic injury figured in either the earlier misadventure or subsequent charade. Mr. Zaborsky may even have believed he was acting in Mr. Wone’s best interest, based on what he was told about the supposed misadventure. Since Mr. Zaborsky insisted on calling 911, Mr. Zaborsky got stuck with making the call.
If this hypothesis is near the truth, it would help explain why Mr. Zaborsky began to hyperventilate, demand an ambulance with increasing desperation, and then break down weeping.
That doesn’t account for the scream (presumably Zaborsky’s) while Maureen Bunyan was on.
whodoneit-
In the scenario described above, the scream would mark the moment when somebody came downstairs only to discover something bad and shocking.
“The scream” probably occurred between 11:05pm and 11:35pm, which fits with scenario.
The Maureen Bunyan sighting puts the scream no later than 11:35pm, which means (unless the witness is wrong) that it wasn’t associated with the grunts or the circa 11:45pm descent descrbied by Messrs Price & Zaborsky.
Messrs. Price and Zaborsky described watching television until 11:05-11:10pm. Since either could potentially have been asked about the show, probably at least one person was watching television until that time.
If the TV watcher(s) heard a scream, he/they would have stopped watching television, and been unable to describe what happened on the show.
So, the watcher probably actually did stop watching after 11:07pm, which then sets the earliest likely moment for the scream.
good points BadShoes. i can’t tell whether he was genuine or acting in that moment (6:20 min into the call). but assuming he was genuine, then perhaps, as you and Bea above have conjectured, he didn’t know the full extent of the situation, and thought that Robert could have been revived.
perhaps he screamed when he saw them taking Robert out of the shower all limp (and perhaps bloodless at that point), and thought he had just ODed. whatever he did see at 6:20 min into the call, the EMT first responder should have been right behind him and seen the same thing at that point.
the thing i can’t figure out is the timeline.
https://whomurderedrobertwone.com/2009/05/07/does-anybody-really-know-what-time-it-is/
to me, the 10:30 arrival seems a little late for everything to be cleaned up in time. has anyone heard of any proof of the 10:22 call from Wone’s office to Swann street as mentioned in the WP article? IF that were incorrect, you could imagine that Robert could have left RFA and arrived closer to 10pm.
// “RFA colleagues remember him arriving back at the station before 10, that he called Swann Street at 10:22”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/31/AR2009053102510_pf.html
Robert and Lindburg took metro from Metro Center, with Robert exiting at Farragut North station. probably calls Kathy just after he leaves Lindburg. so if he took a taxi (after the three hour evening CLE course) from there to RFA, he could have been at RFA just after 9:30. so how long does it take to say hello?
https://whomurderedrobertwone.com/2009/10/05/judgement-at-nurenberg/
https://whomurderedrobertwone.com/2009/05/07/does-anybody-really-know-what-time-it-is/
9:15 class ends / walk to Metro Center (6 minutes)
9:30 exiting Farragut North station (or in taxi?) calls Kathy Wone (taxi to RFA ~2 minutes)
[9:33] arrival at RFA / introductions & small talk
[9:48] leaves RFA / taxi to Swann Street (5 minutes)
[9:55] possible arrival at Swann Street
// DC Bar Association to Metro Center
1101 K Street NW, Washington, DC, United States
1120 G Street NW, Washington, DC 20005
Walking directions to 1120 G St NW,
0.4 mi 6 mins
// Farragutt North to RFA
Farragut North Station @38.903298,-77.039501
2025 M St NW #300, Washington, DC 20036
Walking directions to 2025 M St NW
Connecticut Ave NW and M St NW
0.4 mi 8 mins
Driving directions to 2025 M St NW
K St NW and 20th St NW
0.6 mi 2 mins
// RFA to Swann Street
2025 M St NW #300, Washington, DC 20036
1509 Swann St NW, Washington, DC 20009
Driving directions to 1509 Swann St NW
16th St NW
1.3 mi 5 mins
Good point, prtyboydc. Interesting that, as I recall, the defense hired an acoustic specialist to say how quiet the stairs were, and therefore that no one could wake up to an intruder– but the stairs are loud enough that they can be heard on the 911 call.
Yes, but the acoustic expert is not a witness. I think it’s because his findings were, at a minimum, not helpful.
I too listened to the 911 call yesterday and swear that I heard him say at one point, “I knew this…” in what appeared to be a discouraged voice. Has anyone else heard that snippet or I have done poor research/had aural hallucinations?
Hi SSK, the editors commented on this back in June 2009 — 6 paragraphs down…
https://whomurderedrobertwone.com/2009/06/12/im-afraid-to-go-downstairs/
‘At 5:47, still desperate for help, Victor makes a not-quite intelligible statement, perhaps saying “I need…”, “I knew this was…” We can’t say for sure. But he quickly cuts himself off exclaiming “…here they are, here they are.”’
Does anyone know or think MPD officer Diane Durham’s statement will come into play during the trial? She stated that Price told her that he saw Wone bleeding at the patio back door before taking him upstairs to the bed.
Yes — because Kathy says Joe told her Robert was “stabbed in the back.”
prtyboydc: I agree with you. I listened to the 911 call again last night and noticed that Victor’s question to the 911 operator “What time is it?” was prompted by someone else. It’s either Joe or Dylan and I’d be willing to bet that it was “know it all” Joe who told Victor to ask that question. Did they not have a clock around that they could have looked at, instead of giving themselves away that they were trying to concoct a story to fit into the “correct” timeline? What about trying to look at the time on the Blackberry that was sitting on the table?
Also, why was Victor crying in court? A few possible reasons: in general, he was re-living the horrible events of that night; he realized just how lame his story/statements were to the 911 operator and they were being played for all in the court, most importantly the judge, to hear; he felt regret for his role in the cover up. At least it was a refreshing change from his smiles and laughing earlier in the morning.
Knowing the defendants (2) casually. I found Joe Price as very dominant in that he presented himself as lawyer and from elite school. Very smart. Ego a big thing.
Knowing Victor, I feel he was manipulated by a sociopath..
Also, I agree that Victor was not on the third floor when he made the call – contrary to where Joe told him to go. Victor was clearly near someone else during the call. Since we couldn’t hear who prompted Victor to ask “What time is it?”, the person (Joe) must have been very close to Victor so that he could hear it. Also, during the conversation with the 911 operator, Victor made a reference to being on the “second floor.”
i confess that when i first listened to the 911 call months ago, i thought it exonerated victor. i just listened to the tape again. with the benefit of this website and the collective genius of all who are working to try to figure out what happened, i have completely changed my mind. i now concur that, for the many reasons you all have cited [e.g. the use of “we” & “we think that”]it is, in the words of the car talk guys, bogus. if the call was made within seconds of discovering robert in distress, how would such group think have had time to occur? how would victor know what the theory was or what anyone else thought? kudos to everyone posting.
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im wondering why dylans name comes up so often there were 2 other guys involvoled supposibly, but the only name i see is dylans?
take a little personal only because Dylan is my cousin, dadadaaaaaaaaaa missing the music! every is obsessed with him hes not the only one on trial,i wonder if its cause of his sexual privatetime or what to each there own, i know i certain couples no names who do what to them is exciting and a little off the wall to most of the pop but it does not make them killers.
This is odd, but it seems legit. I played the one “What’s Victor….doing these days” and it’s an actual voice mail record. Wonder if anyone else has seen this page before:
http://mp3tx.com/song-culuket-mp3-download.html