Defense Rips The Bark Off Kirschner’s Experts
What evidence don’t these guys want spiked? Wow.
Just into the DC Superior Court Clerk’s office (don’t all the posts these days seem to start that way?) is the latest defense motion: Defendants’ Joint Motion In Limine to Exclude Argument and Testimony that the Crime Scene was Cleaned and to Limit Argument and Testimony Regarding Lack of Blood Evidence. They’re swinging for the fences.
The strongly worded 17 page document argues that:
The Government’s own testing shows that the crime scene was not cleaned, nor blood detected.
The Government’s three blood evidence experts are unqualified, lacking the skills to testify on what is or isn’t a consistent amount of blood expected this crime scene.
The Government experts’ would be prejudicial; as former law enforcement officers, their testimony would “carry exceptional weight and an aura of reliability which could lead the jury to conclusions based more on speculation that scientific evidence.”
And the Front Four kick sand in the face of one of AUSA Glenn Kirschner’s star witnesses: not a Henry Lee type super-star, but retired FBI agent and leading forensics ace Robert Spaulding.
Another lesser magnitude expert witness, this one for the defense, is also expected to testify at trial, Mr. Ashley’s Reagent himself.
Key points and the full motion follow.
The motion’ first section picks apart the processing of the crime scene. They maintain that 175 MPD swabs from floors, walls, sinks, sink traps, showers, stairs, doors, baseboards, drains and lint traps, FBI lab testing showed no “…trace blood evidence.”
As far as the chemical testing of blood traces, we’re reminded of the misapplication of Ashley’s Reagent. Expected to take the stand will be Mr. Donald Ostermeyer, “the manufacturer of Ashley’s Reagent.” He’ll testify to the rather limited value his product provides even under the best of conditions.
Apparently “Ashley’s Reagent is not designed to detect the possible presence of blood,” because it reacts with proteins found in common substances like hardwood floor finishes, paint polymers and fabric dyes. Ostermeyer will testify that the MPD tests, “…erroneously interpreted these reactions as indicative of the presence of trace blood evidence,” i.e., false positives.
And why exactly does the MPD use that stuff instead of Luminol?
Next the defense challenges the admissibility of testimony from Kirchner’s blood experts Spaulding and former MPD crime techs David Sergeant and Maureen Walsh. They fail the “three-fold-test” of Dyas v. United States, 376.
I guess they’re saying Kirschner’s guys are unqualified three times over:
“(They lack) sufficient skill, knowledge or experience to testify regarding the degree of external bleeding that would be expected to occur as the result of the particular stab wounds suffered by Mr. Wone.
(None have) medical background and training in human anatomy…
None is a medical doctor or forensic pathologist…”
As to the government’s claim that little blood was found at the scene, the defense witnesses, three forensic pathologists and a ER doc:
“…all concur that the quantity of blood at the scene… is consistent with the degree of bleeding that would be expected from the particular stab wounds suffered by Mr. Wone.”
As footnoted at the end of the motion, these guys are likely to lean on Spitz and Fisher’s Medicolegal Investigation of Death:
“A stab wound of the chest where a major vessel or the heart is penetrated… will cause massive internal bleeding… Abdominal stab wounds, even fatal ones, rarely have significant external bleeding.”
So there you have it. No blood. Simple.
-posted by Craig
Simply mind-boggling.
We’ve long known that the use of Ashley’s Reagent was possibly the biggest MPD screw-up among many.
But as for the rest — as I stated in response to an earlier post, it is always possible to find an expert willing to testify to an alternative opinion to support the defense. It is up to the jury to decide credibility and what the facts actually are, not up to the judge to keep the jury from making that determination.
“We didn’t do it. Don’t know who did. Leave us alone.” Joe Price is still at the wheel.
A miasma of malicious incompetence seeps from everything the MPD concluded.
When exposed to the light of day & the scrutiny of Science the governments casework stinks.
It must be really embarrassing for the good folks here who have faith in our government’s grasp of science or decency.
Dr. Franklin
First time poster, long-time reader. I know most here think that the “trouble” is guilty (and I am probably among those who thinks or thought that). At the same time, I have to say that I found the defense’s motion pretty compelling. I am a litigator (although I don’t do any criminal work), and it seems to me that the two key facts (no blood trace evidence found by the FBI + mis-use of Ashley’s) seem to indicate that the scene wasn’t cleaned (or, at least raises reasonable doubt). I can’t speak to the defense’s request to disqualify the experts, and I do wonder why the defense waited so long to file this motion, but I guess there could be a lot of reasons — nailing down the Ashley’s expert, etc. At any rate, I am rambling. What am I missing? Did others find the motion persuasive?
Didn’t work for me – but I’ve long expected the defense to be arguing that there was no blood and no clean up. Pretty standard fare to buy experts who’ll say as close as possible to what you want them to say or you fire them and get someone else – when you’ve got open checkbooks as here. The kicker will be whether the details bear out. The judge will simply deny and move on – she doesn’t want this determining the case when full cross allows the defense all the protections it needs.
If the defense could, it would find an expert and move to suppress evidence that Robert died on Swann Street – perhaps he arrived with 3 perfect stab wounds.
Seriously, this makes me yawn.
Bea:
Did you look at the photos in Exhibit B (dark though they may be)? I only just noticed them and must admit I am more than a little shocked.
I don’t question the manufacturer’s explanation, but I have a hard time squaring those blotches on the door and doorway with a reaction to “finishes, polymers or dyes” unless the crew that originally painted the place was extremely sloppy. I’m frankly surprised that the photos were included by the defense as it takes away from the power of their argument since the blotches look very much like the “missing” stains. If the Prosecution cannot support the MPD’s use of Ashley’s, the judge may not have a choice, but if there is any validity to it’s use at all, those photos may persuade her to rule otherwise.
If Ashley’s does indeed pick up blood evidence, even if it may give false readings for other substances, might the manufacturer’s opinion go to the weight the jury would assign to the evidence, rather than pointing to outright exclusion?
If it must be excluded, and tests with Luminol would have been admissible, then this indeed was the most awful error the MPD made, since those sure don’t look like varnish splotches to me.
Guys: The attached 1509 before and after photos look crappy on our copies too, not just the scans you’re seeing.
The Shaky-Cam has given way to the Smudgy-Cam.
This defense doc obviously seems rather narrowly written; it excludes any mention of defensive wounds and the involuntary actions a stabbing victim may exhibit, in which other forensic blood patterns may appear, right? My mostly uninformed read of the motion says it’s confined to pooling only.
the photos are very difficult to see, but did anyone else notice page 27? it looks like three big dripping bloodstains on a wall to me. if that is blood, how would this have happened if robert was immediately subdued/incapacitated as we presume? does anyone else see what i am seeing? or am i mistaken?
That could possibly be where the reagent was sprayed and then it drained down the wall.
If this reagent reacts to paint, dyes, etc. perhaps they should look to the evidence on surfaces in the bathrooms and kitchens. These surfaces are marble, stainless steel, ceramics, etc. It is HIGHLY unlikely that animal proteins are present in these products. Proteins are added during the manufacture of paints, varnishes, etc. to act as a binding agent. Perhaps an expert could attest to the fact that proteins are not present in particular surfaces, so a reaction to protein would have to be a reaction to something other than the surface itself.
I remember seeing a few photos of the bathroom shower when The Legal Times did a big spread on the case. There were several photos of the shower stall (porcelain most likely).
You can’t tell me that every surface they used that reagent on would render the reagent useless.
As they say, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
A little quick research shows that Ashley’s is intended for application to non-porous surfaces to further highlight blood spatter that has been previously detected by other means so that it can more easily be photographed. It is not, apparently, intended to be a primary means of detecting blood, especially on porous surfaces.
That said it does react to the presence of blood among other things, and as you note CD, there are plenty of non-porous surfaces in the bathroom.
As for the splotches in the photos, would it really have been applied in random bursts and reacted wherever sprayed, or sprayed in a thin film over a larger surface so that those splotches are the areas where it reacted?
Bea,
Looks like the “applicator” isn’t any more sophisticated than an ajax spray bottle.
www dot crimesciences dot com/StoreBox/bloodidentificationreagen/lp-05097.htm
and
www dot evidentcrimescene dot com/cata/chem/chem.html
excuse me…I was replying to Hoya’s post and Bea’s comment!
Hoya, I agree – sure looks like a bloody mess was cleaned up instead of incompetent painters. I have children and even their paint jobs in their rooms are far better than this!!!
Its “Anonymous” again (I should have picked a more distinctive name!) I guess this is where I get confused: Assuming the Ashley’s did, in fact, identify some blood (and maybe some other proteins in varnish, etc.), how can it be that the FBI didn’t find any traces of blood in all the materials sent to the lab? I guess I had assumed all along that they did find blood or body fluid on at least some of the materials they took from the house, and that the government would be relying on that evidence to show that they had cleaned the scene.
And, to clarify — I don’t think the Judge will necessarily exclude the evidence based on this motion. I think that whether or not the scene was cleaned is a jury issue (although, again, I don’t do criminal litigation). My issue is — where are the traces of blood they cleaned up?? Could they really have cleaned up that thoroughly that they left no trace for the FBI to find? Maybe I have watched too much Law and Order…
For what its worth, I can’t tell a thing from the photos — they are incredibly dark.
I’m looking forward to seeing the prosecution’s response to the Defendant’s Motion. The prosecution may have a whole different take on what evidence was found.
Just because the defense motion say so, doesn’t mean it is so.
Whether or not there was blood evidence, the defense motions appear to be a little inconsistent to me.
First, defense attorneys argue that the Government’s own testing shows that the crime scene was not cleaned.
There’s a big difference between the Government’s being unable to prove that the crime scene was not cleaned and and saying that the testing proves that the crime scene was not cleaned.
I think that the prosecution could argue that this should be a question for the jury to decide.
I can believe that the Government’s three blood evidence experts may be unqualified to testify as to what is or isn’t a consistent amount of blood expected at a crime scene. If in fact the three experts in question are unqualified, then it behooves the prosecution to find ones that are.
An argument that the testimony of former law enforcement officers will carry extra weight and prejudice a case could be used to bar the testimony of former law enforcement officers on a regular basis. I hope that the judge sees it for what it is and rejects it.
In any event, I think that most of us are agreed that this an area in which the MPD screwed up and big time.
I can only hope that a forthcoming DC forensic lab will lead to better results in the future. But I have to admit that I did not need the Wone murder case to persuade me that the MPD is not the greatest police force in the nation.
Here is an elaboration of one of my earlier scenarios:
1) Sarah “the fag hag par excellence” is given a long deserved night off and goes to the home of friends, Tom and John, where she has an absolutely “capital time”; 2) “Straight as an arrow, naive as a quiver and as accepting as a breach cloth,” Robert Wone comes (not cUms) for a a pre-planned “sleep over” at the homO of his three best Gay friends, Joseph “the William and ‘Mary’ mentor and narcissistic lawyer” Price, Victor “‘I got milk’ and my cream belongs to Joseph” Zaborsky and Dylan “the fanantical Asian aficianado and intoxicating masseur” Ward; 3) much to his surprise and consternation, Victor returns from a business trip only to find that whom he has long known to be Joseph’s unrequited love and Victor’s vicarious and tolerated friend, Robert, is visiting and it gives Victor pause to wonder why he was not informed of what he learns had been a previously arranged visit;
4) Michael “the thief in the night and high as a kite” Price misses phlebotomy class at Montgomery College for the first time; 5) while Robert innocently drinks water, Joseph, Dylan and/or Victor have COCKtails and conversation with Robert in the kitchen; 6) longtime unrequited lover of Robert, Joseph, is rebuffed by the oblivious Robert in the kitchen; 7) by Joseph, Dylan has been previously prepared for the rejection of Joseph by Robert whom Dylan knows to be Joseph’s unrequited love; 8) given Dylan’s long history as a Rice Queen, Joseph knows that Dylan will be even more hyped up than usual for the “fun and games” which Joseph and Dylan had agreed would take place later that evening, whatever Robert’s response might be; 9) Ward doses Robert’s drink with a short acting and therefore untraceable date rape drug as Joseph and Dylan had previously agreed would take place in the not unlikely event that Robert rejected Joseph’s advances;
10) feeling an unusual tiredness on account of a date rape drug he did not know was in his system, Robert goes upstairs and prepares to retire for the night 11) Robert takes off his work clothes, places his watch, wallet and Blackberry on the night table, inserts his bite plate and goes to sleep; 12) Joseph and Dylan take a drugged Robert to the “game room” and fetter him to a point which is effective for BDSM rituals and other sexual activities, but will leave no telltale signs should Robert ever seek to claim that he was raped; 13) Joseph wants Robert to be rendered sufficiently pliable but not totally limp, because it will be more entertaining for any ensuing BDSM or other sexual activities in which Joseph and/or Dylan will be the primary or exclusive participants; 14) someone who knows about injecting paralytics for the purpose of getting somebody “high,” administers such a drug to Robert; 15) BDSM rituals such as electric ejaculation stimulation and other sexual activities take place which rituals may echo pornographic videos and/or magazine renderings which will much later be discovered by police and prosecutors as part of Joseph and/or Dylan’s extensive collections thereof;
16) through all of these sexual shenanigans, Victor is sleeping upstairs as is his wont when Joseph and Victor’s bete noir, Dylan, are engaging in activities repugnant to Victor who only puts up with same for fear of losing “the love of his life” and the “man of the house” upon whom he, “the woman of the house,” depends, namely Joseph; 17) Robert suddenly and unexpectedly begins to come out of his state of suspended animation; 18) startled and afraid, Dylan places a pillow over Robert’s head to render him momentarily helpless while he awaits instructions from the cooler head, Joseph, whom Dylan relies upon as always to figure out what to do next; 19) any sounds which Robert might make at this point will be muffled on account of the pilllow which has been placed over his head; 20) the placing of the pillow over Robert’s head will ultimately lead to broken capillaries in his eyes; 21) at Joseph’s direction, Robert is administered what Joseph and Dylan believe to be a “deadly” dose of a paralytic by someone who knows about the injection of certain drugs for the purpose of achieving an overdose;
22) Joseph and Dylan breathe a sigh of relief comforted by their erroneous belief that Robert has been killed by an overdose of a paralytic; 23) unbeknownst to Joseph and Dylan, Robert is indeed on his way to, but actually has not yet arrived at “death’s door”; 24) believing that a drug induced death would likely implicate himself and Dylan as having had nonconsensual sex with Robert as well as any third party drug administrator such as Joseph’s brother, Michael, Joseph instructs Dylan to get two knives from somewhere; 25) Dylan goes to the kitchen drawer for one knife and to his room for a culinary knife from the set he always keeps there, then he returns to the game room; 26) culinary school graduate Dylan or fomer Eagle Scout Joseph methodically stab Robert to make it look as if Robert was killed by one whom they will subsequently claim to have been an outside
“intruder”
27) given that Robert is in fact not yet dead, he groans upon being stabbed much to the surprise of Dylan whose experience has led him to believe that all Asians are quiet, passive and obsequious on all occasions; 28) surprised to see that Robert is still alive, Joseph instructs the drug administator to inject even more paralytic into Robert’s system and says: “and make sure you kill him this time”; 29) Victor is awakened by a loud groan and comes downstairs to see what is going on; 30) Victor sees Robert lying there bleeding, and terrified, Victor screams: “Oh my nonanti-Gay God”; 31) Joseph says “don’t act like such a little girl, Victor,” and commands him to go back upstairs to the bedroom which Victor and Joseph share and await further instructions and of course, Victor does as he is told; 32) Dylan attempts to staunch the blood flowing from Robert’s chest in the manner Eagle Scout Joseph has instructed; 33) Joseph directs Dylan to take Robert back to the guest room where Joseph and Dylan clean Robert up, change his clothes which includes gratuitously putting a gray William and Mary tee shirt on Robert;
34) the knife wielder makes knife holes in Robert’s W&M shirt with the knife which Dylan had gotten from the kitchen as opposed to the culinary knife which was actually used to stab Robert to death; 35) Dylan ultimately places Robert in a macabre postion which mirrors that of a Shakespeare cartoon in a New Yorker magazine which is still lying on the floor of Dylan’s room where DC MPD police detectives will consequently find it; 36) various items, such as the real murder weapon, are prepared for disposal and disposition; 37) one or more persons cleans up the guest room which includes cleaning blood off the walls and floors; 38) one or more persons cleans up other areas of the house such as the washer and dryer where some of the bloody articles had been washed and dried; 39) one or more persons wrings out certain articles in the backyard and hoses down the drain; 40) one or more persons disposes of various murder related items such as the bloody culinary knife;
41) Joseph wipes the kitchen knife with a white cotton cloth to make the kitchen knife as opposed to the culinary knife appear to be the murder weapon; 42) knowing how the Blackberry mechaninsm works, Joseph makes a couple of incomplete calls on Robert’s Blackberry in order to confuse the timeframe; 43) any and all who may have been involved before, during or after the murder are provided with a common Gay “get it Straight”story (which includes a mystery intruder) by the all too clever (hopefully someday for himself), Joseph; 44) after a “Hard Day’s Night,” the trio take showers because that’s what Gay men do after they’ve been “out on the townhouse” stabbing a friend to death; 45) big firm law partner, Joseph, prepares his greatest closing argument but ultimately it’s not good enough to retain his “firm” partnership; 46) Joseph tells Victor to come downstairs; 47) Joseph prepares Victor for his greatest product sale;
48) to the emergency operator, Victor gives his newest “I’ve got Bilk” campaign bAD in order to make enough money for attorney fees in the hope that some cheezy lawyer can keep him out of jail for a crime he did commit; 49) EMT’s arrive only to find the Holy Trio clean as a whistle, wearing “royal white” robes and unusally calm for a situation in which “any body” — let alone that of an ostensibly close friend — has been found lying, dying and dyEing in a pool of blood in one’s home; 50) for reasons unstated, Joseph advises Sarah to extend her vacation at Tom and John’s and that the “Lassie should not Come Home” until Joseph gives her the “all Queer” signal; 51) Michael Price returns home into the loving arms of his partner, Louis Hinton, who gives an alibi for the man against whom he has a restraining order, because he feels badly for a Michael who looks even worse than the last time Louis saw Michael “fall off the wagon”; 52) when the police arrive at the Swann Street home, Joseph gives the police what he himself right then and there characterizes as a totally “implausable” story about an outside intruder who in the manner of Chinese Communist agents must have targeted for a “hit” the new director of Radio Free Asia;
53) Kathy Wone is informed of her husband Robert’s death at the home of some of his nearest and Queerest friends; 54) Joseph calls Kathy practically in Queers to offer his heartfelt condolences; 55) the Swann Street swingers all have tea and crumpets the following morning to celebrate, I mean commiserate over, the death of their beloved friend, Robert Wone’s, untimely, unfortunate and unfathomable — even to them his killers — death; 56) loving Robert as much as he does, Joseph feels that the only thing better than having nonconsensual sex with Robert may be shedding “crocodile tears” as a pall bearer at Robert’s funeral;
57) Kathy and the Wone family thank Joseph for always looking “out” for Robert; 58) Kathy realizes that the theretofore unthinkable is more than probable, namely that Robert’s Gayest friend, Joseph, is somehow implicated in the murder of her Straight husband; 59) though not wanting to be a racist, Kathy sees that the DC MPD doesn’t seem to have the Asian work ethic or Robert’s perfectionism and therefore has screwed up her husband’s murder case in both Column A and Column B; 60) therefore, Kathy feels she has no choice but to institute a civil suit.
N.B. If Robert in fact had not yet died from the paralytic overdose at the moment when Dylan or Joseph stabbed Robert, he would have been alive enough to swallow his own blood but dead enough to not bleed profusely.
Admirable analysis.
I question the early part of your scenario. I would be very surprised, based on the nature of their long time relationship, if Joe would have propositioned Robert directly. I think that if Robert was propositioned by Joe, he would not have stayed in the house. He certainly would not have peacefully gone to bed.
The rest of the scenario from the poisoned drink onward is quite possible. Especially the removal of Robert’s drugged body to another room. Then after Robert was killed, returning Robert’s body to the undisturbed guest room.
In my opinion, there were some pretty unglued fellas who were present at 1509 Swann Street that tragic night. They did a lot of damage to a lot of people and snuffed out the life of a most
exceptional person who would continued doing countless constructive things in this world.
Perhaps that is why they had such disdain for him. Or… perhaps he was just another body.
Eagle says: “I would be very surprised, based on the nature of their long time relationship, if Joe would have propositioned Robert directly. I think that if Robert was propositioned by Joe, he would not have stayed in the house. He certainly would not have peacefully gone to bed.”
I’ve always believed that Joe had possibly propositioned Robert in the past. Robert having been an easy-going fellow without a homophobic bone in his body brushed it off. Perhaps the nature of Joe’s propositions were playful. Easy to say “oh, don’t be silly Joe.” Share a big laugh about it and it is forgotten. Perhaps this time Joe was a bit more serious in his proposition. “Come on Robert. Give it try (drugs and sex).” Maybe Robert became angry this time. Robert was now a married man. To proposition Robert would be an insult to Kathy. Perhaps Robert became angry this time. Being too late to go home to McLean, he decided to turn in and call it a night. Deal with the nonsense in the morning.
You also have to look at Joe’s changes. Joe was now living a polyamorous life-style. A husband, a house boy, and was also trolling the internet for other interested parties to join in. Joe’s view on his own sexuality (king of the hill) and the ease at which he enjoyed his sexuality had changed in the years since he first met Robert.
A friendship formed years ago does not necessarily remain static when personalities and dynamics change.
CD:
Worthwhile points.
Yes, I agree: Joe had/has definitely “evolved”.
Your scenario is plausible.
I based my opinion on the fact that Robert made decisions carefully and cautiously.
Propositioning Robert would have put Robert on guard, I would hope.
Rethinking it, it is quite possible that Robert had not caught or understand the
the behavioral clues to Joe’s increasingly destructive personality.
Perhaps Joe was unglued enough to proposition Robert. If so Joe was even more depraved and predatory than even I thought. Perhaps this propositioning was routine for “guests” at 1509. Anyone who knows is not talking.
As for Robert, he likely thought that Joe was his long-time loyal dependable friend. If Joe did prey on/kill Robert, this was more than a physical ambush but a psychological one as well. Its pretty easy to attack someone who trusts you. Clever but rotten to the core.
Eagle,
I imagine Robert was, indeed, very thoughtful regarding decisions. But as you say, it’s pretty easy to attack someone who trusts you. Robert probably never imagined in his wildest nightmares that his life would end that night.
Those photos look like fliers for Truman Capote’s Black & White Ball rather than real crime scene evidence: is that Babe Paley’s throne on page 28?
More seriously, the Four Horsemen are definitely charging up the hill a la the Union Army at Fredericksburg; one only hopes that their piercing attacks on MPD personnel, policies and procedures will be overcome by a few well-timed cannon strikes of logic. Glenn and Cathy (with a C), hold that line!
Clio,
This might be the defense’s Pickets Charge, which was a bigger defeat for the Army of Northern Virginia.
David
That’s so true. Now, all we need is Vick(i)sburg to fall, after a grueling siege (of publicity).
Considering what went on at Swann long before Robert was murdered, I wouldn’t doubt there’s a stain or two on the walls.
I’m starting to think the MPD (and I’m sorry, I read “multiple personality disorder” every time I use the acronym) is on Joe’s payroll. (Joking, joking.)
Don’t love the gratuitous homophobic slurs, but agree that that’s probably pretty much how it all went down.
I also think that there may have been a plan that was abandoned to dump him at that vacant crack house.
I also question if this was the first time, they were so cool afterwards…
I share this link because the comment way at the bottom of the article (over 400 comments, so you need to scroll al the way down) makes reference to the Robert Wone matter…
http://www.theeagleonline.com/opinion/story/dealing-with-aus-anti-sex-brigade/
Wentworth: Thanks for the heads up.
Robert: Thanks but don’t forget the occasional page break when you’re burning up the keyboard.
All: In the run up to Monday’s status hearing, more docs have hit the clerk’s office. By the end of next week, we’re going to have a much clearer picture of the night Robert was murdered, at least from the defendants’ perspective.
Craig:
Since today is April Fool’s Day, I must ask about your statement that we will soon have “a much clearer picture of the night Robert was murdered, at least from the defendants’ perspective.” Is Ben using your moniker today? Fog and dust is what I expect is heading our way.
Respectfully,
Meto
Meto: Remember that 260 page filing, the G’s response to the D’s Motion to Suppress? Let’s just say there were some attachments.
The G’s motion itself goes up tomorrow, maybe another rare weekend post then Monday is the next (and final?) status hearing.
We’re trying to keep up and stay current. Today’s bitchin’ post by Doug went up a little while ago and is well worth the read.
While the editors already know my less than secret
identity, I am not sure that I want to reveal it to everybody if for no other reason than I wish to avoid any possible “ad hominem” attacks.
But my birthday really is April Fool’s Day! I hope that doesn’t make me a total fool.
CRAIG
You have to remember that I am technologically challenged. Therefore, you have to explain this “page break” stuff to me.
EAGLE/CDC
I think that you both make some good points about possible prior advances by Joseph toward Robert as well as Joe’s possible evolution in terms of his sexual feelings or strategy towards Robert.
Many people have speculated as to why Robert decided to stay at the Swann Street house in the first place. Some have suggested that Robert was either something other than Straight or that he was in the mood to take a “walk on the wild side.”
For a number of reasons, I do not think either of the above inferences or similar ones are true. But admittedly, this is just my personal opinion.
While Robert may have been very unhomophobic, I should have thought that not unlike most people,
he would nevertheless have been uncomfortable staying in the home of another (whether it be a Gay man or a Straight woman) — even a close friend, if he: 1) had reason to believe that this individual had unrequited love for him; 2) concluded that this individual had made serious sexual advances toward him in the past; 3) perceived that this individual was making serious sexual advances toward him in the present.
Had Joseph made unwanted, serious and obvious sexual advances toward Robert, it would be hard to believe that all of the following were true, Robert: 1) could not afford to take a taxi; 2) did not have cab fare that evening; 3) could not have called his wife Kathy Wone and said: “I need you to pick me up now, I’ll explain it to you later.”
Date rape generally occurs where the victim trusts the perpetrator at least to some degree as implied by CDINDC. Even more so when the prospective rapist is any friend — let alone a close friend. As EAGLE observes: in situations such as this, one is more likely to “let your guard down.”
Why do prospective date rapists dose the drinks of their would be victims in the first place? Because the rapist knows that the victim is willing or thinks
that the drug will be ineffective. Of course not.
Even a dumb date rapist operates in the belief that:
1) their would be victim is unwilling; 2) the drug will render the victim pliable; 3) the victim won’t remember what happened.
In addition, a smart date rapist operates in the belief that: 1) the victim will not come forward due to feelings of guilt or shame; 2) a good defense attorney could claim that the victim’s memory was impaired and thereby call her or his testimony into question.
An experienced sexual predator and/or a knowledgable lawyer would know all of the above.
Thus, there would be no need for somebody such as Joseph to make playful advances toward Robert.
However much Robert may (or may not) have been naive when Robert entered William and Mary where Joseph was his mentor, he was certainly not the ingenue protege anymore.
Indeed, I think this is one of the reasons why Joseph may have been the former “quarterback” who wanted to conquer the former “cheer leader.”
Robert’s high school classmates thought that he would be the first Asian American president of the United States. He held all sorts of student government positions at W&M.
As someone who has vast experience with student governments, ethnic associations, major law firms,
nonprofit groups and political organizations, I can tell you that one cannot be the general counsel of an organization such as Radio Free Asia and have a weak personality. It’s just not possible.
Unlike Dylan or Victor, Robert was not somebody that one could push around — certainly not now if ever. Indeed had Robert been date raped and subsequently became aware of it, I do not think Robert would have hesitated to come forward.
At the very least, Joseph knew this. He could not afford to have a Robert who knew he was raped.
If Joseph had the slightest inkling that Robert knew what had transpired on that fateful evening, he would have to silence him or face the ruinous consequences. And for Joseph there were many.
Simply mind-boggling.
We’ve long known that the use of Ashley’s Reagent was possibly the biggest MPD screw-up among many.
But as for the rest — as I stated in response to an earlier post, it is always possible to find an expert willing to testify to an alternative opinion to support the defense. It is up to the jury to decide credibility and what the facts actually are, not up to the judge to keep the jury from making that determination.
“We didn’t do it. Don’t know who did. Leave us alone.” Joe Price is still at the wheel.
A miasma of malicious incompetence seeps from everything the MPD concluded.
When exposed to the light of day & the scrutiny of Science the governments casework stinks.
It must be really embarrassing for the good folks here who have faith in our government’s grasp of science or decency.
Dr. Franklin
First time poster, long-time reader. I know most here think that the “trouble” is guilty (and I am probably among those who thinks or thought that). At the same time, I have to say that I found the defense’s motion pretty compelling. I am a litigator (although I don’t do any criminal work), and it seems to me that the two key facts (no blood trace evidence found by the FBI + mis-use of Ashley’s) seem to indicate that the scene wasn’t cleaned (or, at least raises reasonable doubt). I can’t speak to the defense’s request to disqualify the experts, and I do wonder why the defense waited so long to file this motion, but I guess there could be a lot of reasons — nailing down the Ashley’s expert, etc. At any rate, I am rambling. What am I missing? Did others find the motion persuasive?
Didn’t work for me – but I’ve long expected the defense to be arguing that there was no blood and no clean up. Pretty standard fare to buy experts who’ll say as close as possible to what you want them to say or you fire them and get someone else – when you’ve got open checkbooks as here. The kicker will be whether the details bear out. The judge will simply deny and move on – she doesn’t want this determining the case when full cross allows the defense all the protections it needs.
If the defense could, it would find an expert and move to suppress evidence that Robert died on Swann Street – perhaps he arrived with 3 perfect stab wounds.
Seriously, this makes me yawn.
Bea:
Did you look at the photos in Exhibit B (dark though they may be)? I only just noticed them and must admit I am more than a little shocked.
I don’t question the manufacturer’s explanation, but I have a hard time squaring those blotches on the door and doorway with a reaction to “finishes, polymers or dyes” unless the crew that originally painted the place was extremely sloppy. I’m frankly surprised that the photos were included by the defense as it takes away from the power of their argument since the blotches look very much like the “missing” stains. If the Prosecution cannot support the MPD’s use of Ashley’s, the judge may not have a choice, but if there is any validity to it’s use at all, those photos may persuade her to rule otherwise.
If Ashley’s does indeed pick up blood evidence, even if it may give false readings for other substances, might the manufacturer’s opinion go to the weight the jury would assign to the evidence, rather than pointing to outright exclusion?
If it must be excluded, and tests with Luminol would have been admissible, then this indeed was the most awful error the MPD made, since those sure don’t look like varnish splotches to me.
Guys: The attached 1509 before and after photos look crappy on our copies too, not just the scans you’re seeing.
The Shaky-Cam has given way to the Smudgy-Cam.
This defense doc obviously seems rather narrowly written; it excludes any mention of defensive wounds and the involuntary actions a stabbing victim may exhibit, in which other forensic blood patterns may appear, right? My mostly uninformed read of the motion says it’s confined to pooling only.
the photos are very difficult to see, but did anyone else notice page 27? it looks like three big dripping bloodstains on a wall to me. if that is blood, how would this have happened if robert was immediately subdued/incapacitated as we presume? does anyone else see what i am seeing? or am i mistaken?
That could possibly be where the reagent was sprayed and then it drained down the wall.
If this reagent reacts to paint, dyes, etc. perhaps they should look to the evidence on surfaces in the bathrooms and kitchens. These surfaces are marble, stainless steel, ceramics, etc. It is HIGHLY unlikely that animal proteins are present in these products. Proteins are added during the manufacture of paints, varnishes, etc. to act as a binding agent. Perhaps an expert could attest to the fact that proteins are not present in particular surfaces, so a reaction to protein would have to be a reaction to something other than the surface itself.
I remember seeing a few photos of the bathroom shower when The Legal Times did a big spread on the case. There were several photos of the shower stall (porcelain most likely).
You can’t tell me that every surface they used that reagent on would render the reagent useless.
As they say, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
A little quick research shows that Ashley’s is intended for application to non-porous surfaces to further highlight blood spatter that has been previously detected by other means so that it can more easily be photographed. It is not, apparently, intended to be a primary means of detecting blood, especially on porous surfaces.
That said it does react to the presence of blood among other things, and as you note CD, there are plenty of non-porous surfaces in the bathroom.
As for the splotches in the photos, would it really have been applied in random bursts and reacted wherever sprayed, or sprayed in a thin film over a larger surface so that those splotches are the areas where it reacted?
Bea,
Looks like the “applicator” isn’t any more sophisticated than an ajax spray bottle.
www dot crimesciences dot com/StoreBox/bloodidentificationreagen/lp-05097.htm
and
www dot evidentcrimescene dot com/cata/chem/chem.html
excuse me…I was replying to Hoya’s post and Bea’s comment!
Hoya, I agree – sure looks like a bloody mess was cleaned up instead of incompetent painters. I have children and even their paint jobs in their rooms are far better than this!!!
Its “Anonymous” again (I should have picked a more distinctive name!) I guess this is where I get confused: Assuming the Ashley’s did, in fact, identify some blood (and maybe some other proteins in varnish, etc.), how can it be that the FBI didn’t find any traces of blood in all the materials sent to the lab? I guess I had assumed all along that they did find blood or body fluid on at least some of the materials they took from the house, and that the government would be relying on that evidence to show that they had cleaned the scene.
And, to clarify — I don’t think the Judge will necessarily exclude the evidence based on this motion. I think that whether or not the scene was cleaned is a jury issue (although, again, I don’t do criminal litigation). My issue is — where are the traces of blood they cleaned up?? Could they really have cleaned up that thoroughly that they left no trace for the FBI to find? Maybe I have watched too much Law and Order…
For what its worth, I can’t tell a thing from the photos — they are incredibly dark.
I’m looking forward to seeing the prosecution’s response to the Defendant’s Motion. The prosecution may have a whole different take on what evidence was found.
Just because the defense motion say so, doesn’t mean it is so.
Whether or not there was blood evidence, the defense motions appear to be a little inconsistent to me.
First, defense attorneys argue that the Government’s own testing shows that the crime scene was not cleaned.
There’s a big difference between the Government’s being unable to prove that the crime scene was not cleaned and and saying that the testing proves that the crime scene was not cleaned.
I think that the prosecution could argue that this should be a question for the jury to decide.
I can believe that the Government’s three blood evidence experts may be unqualified to testify as to what is or isn’t a consistent amount of blood expected at a crime scene. If in fact the three experts in question are unqualified, then it behooves the prosecution to find ones that are.
An argument that the testimony of former law enforcement officers will carry extra weight and prejudice a case could be used to bar the testimony of former law enforcement officers on a regular basis. I hope that the judge sees it for what it is and rejects it.
In any event, I think that most of us are agreed that this an area in which the MPD screwed up and big time.
I can only hope that a forthcoming DC forensic lab will lead to better results in the future. But I have to admit that I did not need the Wone murder case to persuade me that the MPD is not the greatest police force in the nation.
Here is an elaboration of one of my earlier scenarios:
1) Sarah “the fag hag par excellence” is given a long deserved night off and goes to the home of friends, Tom and John, where she has an absolutely “capital time”; 2) “Straight as an arrow, naive as a quiver and as accepting as a breach cloth,” Robert Wone comes (not cUms) for a a pre-planned “sleep over” at the homO of his three best Gay friends, Joseph “the William and ‘Mary’ mentor and narcissistic lawyer” Price, Victor “‘I got milk’ and my cream belongs to Joseph” Zaborsky and Dylan “the fanantical Asian aficianado and intoxicating masseur” Ward; 3) much to his surprise and consternation, Victor returns from a business trip only to find that whom he has long known to be Joseph’s unrequited love and Victor’s vicarious and tolerated friend, Robert, is visiting and it gives Victor pause to wonder why he was not informed of what he learns had been a previously arranged visit;
4) Michael “the thief in the night and high as a kite” Price misses phlebotomy class at Montgomery College for the first time; 5) while Robert innocently drinks water, Joseph, Dylan and/or Victor have COCKtails and conversation with Robert in the kitchen; 6) longtime unrequited lover of Robert, Joseph, is rebuffed by the oblivious Robert in the kitchen; 7) by Joseph, Dylan has been previously prepared for the rejection of Joseph by Robert whom Dylan knows to be Joseph’s unrequited love; 8) given Dylan’s long history as a Rice Queen, Joseph knows that Dylan will be even more hyped up than usual for the “fun and games” which Joseph and Dylan had agreed would take place later that evening, whatever Robert’s response might be; 9) Ward doses Robert’s drink with a short acting and therefore untraceable date rape drug as Joseph and Dylan had previously agreed would take place in the not unlikely event that Robert rejected Joseph’s advances;
10) feeling an unusual tiredness on account of a date rape drug he did not know was in his system, Robert goes upstairs and prepares to retire for the night 11) Robert takes off his work clothes, places his watch, wallet and Blackberry on the night table, inserts his bite plate and goes to sleep; 12) Joseph and Dylan take a drugged Robert to the “game room” and fetter him to a point which is effective for BDSM rituals and other sexual activities, but will leave no telltale signs should Robert ever seek to claim that he was raped; 13) Joseph wants Robert to be rendered sufficiently pliable but not totally limp, because it will be more entertaining for any ensuing BDSM or other sexual activities in which Joseph and/or Dylan will be the primary or exclusive participants; 14) someone who knows about injecting paralytics for the purpose of getting somebody “high,” administers such a drug to Robert; 15) BDSM rituals such as electric ejaculation stimulation and other sexual activities take place which rituals may echo pornographic videos and/or magazine renderings which will much later be discovered by police and prosecutors as part of Joseph and/or Dylan’s extensive collections thereof;
16) through all of these sexual shenanigans, Victor is sleeping upstairs as is his wont when Joseph and Victor’s bete noir, Dylan, are engaging in activities repugnant to Victor who only puts up with same for fear of losing “the love of his life” and the “man of the house” upon whom he, “the woman of the house,” depends, namely Joseph; 17) Robert suddenly and unexpectedly begins to come out of his state of suspended animation; 18) startled and afraid, Dylan places a pillow over Robert’s head to render him momentarily helpless while he awaits instructions from the cooler head, Joseph, whom Dylan relies upon as always to figure out what to do next; 19) any sounds which Robert might make at this point will be muffled on account of the pilllow which has been placed over his head; 20) the placing of the pillow over Robert’s head will ultimately lead to broken capillaries in his eyes; 21) at Joseph’s direction, Robert is administered what Joseph and Dylan believe to be a “deadly” dose of a paralytic by someone who knows about the injection of certain drugs for the purpose of achieving an overdose;
22) Joseph and Dylan breathe a sigh of relief comforted by their erroneous belief that Robert has been killed by an overdose of a paralytic; 23) unbeknownst to Joseph and Dylan, Robert is indeed on his way to, but actually has not yet arrived at “death’s door”; 24) believing that a drug induced death would likely implicate himself and Dylan as having had nonconsensual sex with Robert as well as any third party drug administrator such as Joseph’s brother, Michael, Joseph instructs Dylan to get two knives from somewhere; 25) Dylan goes to the kitchen drawer for one knife and to his room for a culinary knife from the set he always keeps there, then he returns to the game room; 26) culinary school graduate Dylan or fomer Eagle Scout Joseph methodically stab Robert to make it look as if Robert was killed by one whom they will subsequently claim to have been an outside
“intruder”
27) given that Robert is in fact not yet dead, he groans upon being stabbed much to the surprise of Dylan whose experience has led him to believe that all Asians are quiet, passive and obsequious on all occasions; 28) surprised to see that Robert is still alive, Joseph instructs the drug administator to inject even more paralytic into Robert’s system and says: “and make sure you kill him this time”; 29) Victor is awakened by a loud groan and comes downstairs to see what is going on; 30) Victor sees Robert lying there bleeding, and terrified, Victor screams: “Oh my nonanti-Gay God”; 31) Joseph says “don’t act like such a little girl, Victor,” and commands him to go back upstairs to the bedroom which Victor and Joseph share and await further instructions and of course, Victor does as he is told; 32) Dylan attempts to staunch the blood flowing from Robert’s chest in the manner Eagle Scout Joseph has instructed; 33) Joseph directs Dylan to take Robert back to the guest room where Joseph and Dylan clean Robert up, change his clothes which includes gratuitously putting a gray William and Mary tee shirt on Robert;
34) the knife wielder makes knife holes in Robert’s W&M shirt with the knife which Dylan had gotten from the kitchen as opposed to the culinary knife which was actually used to stab Robert to death; 35) Dylan ultimately places Robert in a macabre postion which mirrors that of a Shakespeare cartoon in a New Yorker magazine which is still lying on the floor of Dylan’s room where DC MPD police detectives will consequently find it; 36) various items, such as the real murder weapon, are prepared for disposal and disposition; 37) one or more persons cleans up the guest room which includes cleaning blood off the walls and floors; 38) one or more persons cleans up other areas of the house such as the washer and dryer where some of the bloody articles had been washed and dried; 39) one or more persons wrings out certain articles in the backyard and hoses down the drain; 40) one or more persons disposes of various murder related items such as the bloody culinary knife;
41) Joseph wipes the kitchen knife with a white cotton cloth to make the kitchen knife as opposed to the culinary knife appear to be the murder weapon; 42) knowing how the Blackberry mechaninsm works, Joseph makes a couple of incomplete calls on Robert’s Blackberry in order to confuse the timeframe; 43) any and all who may have been involved before, during or after the murder are provided with a common Gay “get it Straight”story (which includes a mystery intruder) by the all too clever (hopefully someday for himself), Joseph; 44) after a “Hard Day’s Night,” the trio take showers because that’s what Gay men do after they’ve been “out on the townhouse” stabbing a friend to death; 45) big firm law partner, Joseph, prepares his greatest closing argument but ultimately it’s not good enough to retain his “firm” partnership; 46) Joseph tells Victor to come downstairs; 47) Joseph prepares Victor for his greatest product sale;
48) to the emergency operator, Victor gives his newest “I’ve got Bilk” campaign bAD in order to make enough money for attorney fees in the hope that some cheezy lawyer can keep him out of jail for a crime he did commit; 49) EMT’s arrive only to find the Holy Trio clean as a whistle, wearing “royal white” robes and unusally calm for a situation in which “any body” — let alone that of an ostensibly close friend — has been found lying, dying and dyEing in a pool of blood in one’s home; 50) for reasons unstated, Joseph advises Sarah to extend her vacation at Tom and John’s and that the “Lassie should not Come Home” until Joseph gives her the “all Queer” signal; 51) Michael Price returns home into the loving arms of his partner, Louis Hinton, who gives an alibi for the man against whom he has a restraining order, because he feels badly for a Michael who looks even worse than the last time Louis saw Michael “fall off the wagon”; 52) when the police arrive at the Swann Street home, Joseph gives the police what he himself right then and there characterizes as a totally “implausable” story about an outside intruder who in the manner of Chinese Communist agents must have targeted for a “hit” the new director of Radio Free Asia;
53) Kathy Wone is informed of her husband Robert’s death at the home of some of his nearest and Queerest friends; 54) Joseph calls Kathy practically in Queers to offer his heartfelt condolences; 55) the Swann Street swingers all have tea and crumpets the following morning to celebrate, I mean commiserate over, the death of their beloved friend, Robert Wone’s, untimely, unfortunate and unfathomable — even to them his killers — death; 56) loving Robert as much as he does, Joseph feels that the only thing better than having nonconsensual sex with Robert may be shedding “crocodile tears” as a pall bearer at Robert’s funeral;
57) Kathy and the Wone family thank Joseph for always looking “out” for Robert; 58) Kathy realizes that the theretofore unthinkable is more than probable, namely that Robert’s Gayest friend, Joseph, is somehow implicated in the murder of her Straight husband; 59) though not wanting to be a racist, Kathy sees that the DC MPD doesn’t seem to have the Asian work ethic or Robert’s perfectionism and therefore has screwed up her husband’s murder case in both Column A and Column B; 60) therefore, Kathy feels she has no choice but to institute a civil suit.
N.B. If Robert in fact had not yet died from the paralytic overdose at the moment when Dylan or Joseph stabbed Robert, he would have been alive enough to swallow his own blood but dead enough to not bleed profusely.
Admirable analysis.
I question the early part of your scenario. I would be very surprised, based on the nature of their long time relationship, if Joe would have propositioned Robert directly. I think that if Robert was propositioned by Joe, he would not have stayed in the house. He certainly would not have peacefully gone to bed.
The rest of the scenario from the poisoned drink onward is quite possible. Especially the removal of Robert’s drugged body to another room. Then after Robert was killed, returning Robert’s body to the undisturbed guest room.
In my opinion, there were some pretty unglued fellas who were present at 1509 Swann Street that tragic night. They did a lot of damage to a lot of people and snuffed out the life of a most
exceptional person who would continued doing countless constructive things in this world.
Perhaps that is why they had such disdain for him. Or… perhaps he was just another body.
Eagle says: “I would be very surprised, based on the nature of their long time relationship, if Joe would have propositioned Robert directly. I think that if Robert was propositioned by Joe, he would not have stayed in the house. He certainly would not have peacefully gone to bed.”
I’ve always believed that Joe had possibly propositioned Robert in the past. Robert having been an easy-going fellow without a homophobic bone in his body brushed it off. Perhaps the nature of Joe’s propositions were playful. Easy to say “oh, don’t be silly Joe.” Share a big laugh about it and it is forgotten. Perhaps this time Joe was a bit more serious in his proposition. “Come on Robert. Give it try (drugs and sex).” Maybe Robert became angry this time. Robert was now a married man. To proposition Robert would be an insult to Kathy. Perhaps Robert became angry this time. Being too late to go home to McLean, he decided to turn in and call it a night. Deal with the nonsense in the morning.
You also have to look at Joe’s changes. Joe was now living a polyamorous life-style. A husband, a house boy, and was also trolling the internet for other interested parties to join in. Joe’s view on his own sexuality (king of the hill) and the ease at which he enjoyed his sexuality had changed in the years since he first met Robert.
A friendship formed years ago does not necessarily remain static when personalities and dynamics change.
CD:
Worthwhile points.
Yes, I agree: Joe had/has definitely “evolved”.
Your scenario is plausible.
I based my opinion on the fact that Robert made decisions carefully and cautiously.
Propositioning Robert would have put Robert on guard, I would hope.
Rethinking it, it is quite possible that Robert had not caught or understand the
the behavioral clues to Joe’s increasingly destructive personality.
Perhaps Joe was unglued enough to proposition Robert. If so Joe was even more depraved and predatory than even I thought. Perhaps this propositioning was routine for “guests” at 1509. Anyone who knows is not talking.
As for Robert, he likely thought that Joe was his long-time loyal dependable friend. If Joe did prey on/kill Robert, this was more than a physical ambush but a psychological one as well. Its pretty easy to attack someone who trusts you. Clever but rotten to the core.
Eagle,
I imagine Robert was, indeed, very thoughtful regarding decisions. But as you say, it’s pretty easy to attack someone who trusts you. Robert probably never imagined in his wildest nightmares that his life would end that night.
Those photos look like fliers for Truman Capote’s Black & White Ball rather than real crime scene evidence: is that Babe Paley’s throne on page 28?
More seriously, the Four Horsemen are definitely charging up the hill a la the Union Army at Fredericksburg; one only hopes that their piercing attacks on MPD personnel, policies and procedures will be overcome by a few well-timed cannon strikes of logic. Glenn and Cathy (with a C), hold that line!
Clio,
This might be the defense’s Pickets Charge, which was a bigger defeat for the Army of Northern Virginia.
David
That’s so true. Now, all we need is Vick(i)sburg to fall, after a grueling siege (of publicity).
Considering what went on at Swann long before Robert was murdered, I wouldn’t doubt there’s a stain or two on the walls.
I’m starting to think the MPD (and I’m sorry, I read “multiple personality disorder” every time I use the acronym) is on Joe’s payroll. (Joking, joking.)
Don’t love the gratuitous homophobic slurs, but agree that that’s probably pretty much how it all went down.
I also think that there may have been a plan that was abandoned to dump him at that vacant crack house.
I also question if this was the first time, they were so cool afterwards…
I share this link because the comment way at the bottom of the article (over 400 comments, so you need to scroll al the way down) makes reference to the Robert Wone matter…
http://www.theeagleonline.com/opinion/story/dealing-with-aus-anti-sex-brigade/
Wentworth: Thanks for the heads up.
Robert: Thanks but don’t forget the occasional page break when you’re burning up the keyboard.
All: In the run up to Monday’s status hearing, more docs have hit the clerk’s office. By the end of next week, we’re going to have a much clearer picture of the night Robert was murdered, at least from the defendants’ perspective.
Craig:
Since today is April Fool’s Day, I must ask about your statement that we will soon have “a much clearer picture of the night Robert was murdered, at least from the defendants’ perspective.” Is Ben using your moniker today? Fog and dust is what I expect is heading our way.
Respectfully,
Meto
Meto: Remember that 260 page filing, the G’s response to the D’s Motion to Suppress? Let’s just say there were some attachments.
The G’s motion itself goes up tomorrow, maybe another rare weekend post then Monday is the next (and final?) status hearing.
We’re trying to keep up and stay current. Today’s bitchin’ post by Doug went up a little while ago and is well worth the read.
While the editors already know my less than secret
identity, I am not sure that I want to reveal it to everybody if for no other reason than I wish to avoid any possible “ad hominem” attacks.
But my birthday really is April Fool’s Day! I hope that doesn’t make me a total fool.
CRAIG
You have to remember that I am technologically challenged. Therefore, you have to explain this “page break” stuff to me.
EAGLE/CDC
I think that you both make some good points about possible prior advances by Joseph toward Robert as well as Joe’s possible evolution in terms of his sexual feelings or strategy towards Robert.
Many people have speculated as to why Robert decided to stay at the Swann Street house in the first place. Some have suggested that Robert was either something other than Straight or that he was in the mood to take a “walk on the wild side.”
For a number of reasons, I do not think either of the above inferences or similar ones are true. But admittedly, this is just my personal opinion.
While Robert may have been very unhomophobic, I should have thought that not unlike most people,
he would nevertheless have been uncomfortable staying in the home of another (whether it be a Gay man or a Straight woman) — even a close friend, if he: 1) had reason to believe that this individual had unrequited love for him; 2) concluded that this individual had made serious sexual advances toward him in the past; 3) perceived that this individual was making serious sexual advances toward him in the present.
Had Joseph made unwanted, serious and obvious sexual advances toward Robert, it would be hard to believe that all of the following were true, Robert: 1) could not afford to take a taxi; 2) did not have cab fare that evening; 3) could not have called his wife Kathy Wone and said: “I need you to pick me up now, I’ll explain it to you later.”
Date rape generally occurs where the victim trusts the perpetrator at least to some degree as implied by CDINDC. Even more so when the prospective rapist is any friend — let alone a close friend. As EAGLE observes: in situations such as this, one is more likely to “let your guard down.”
Why do prospective date rapists dose the drinks of their would be victims in the first place? Because the rapist knows that the victim is willing or thinks
that the drug will be ineffective. Of course not.
Even a dumb date rapist operates in the belief that:
1) their would be victim is unwilling; 2) the drug will render the victim pliable; 3) the victim won’t remember what happened.
In addition, a smart date rapist operates in the belief that: 1) the victim will not come forward due to feelings of guilt or shame; 2) a good defense attorney could claim that the victim’s memory was impaired and thereby call her or his testimony into question.
An experienced sexual predator and/or a knowledgable lawyer would know all of the above.
Thus, there would be no need for somebody such as Joseph to make playful advances toward Robert.
However much Robert may (or may not) have been naive when Robert entered William and Mary where Joseph was his mentor, he was certainly not the ingenue protege anymore.
Indeed, I think this is one of the reasons why Joseph may have been the former “quarterback” who wanted to conquer the former “cheer leader.”
Robert’s high school classmates thought that he would be the first Asian American president of the United States. He held all sorts of student government positions at W&M.
As someone who has vast experience with student governments, ethnic associations, major law firms,
nonprofit groups and political organizations, I can tell you that one cannot be the general counsel of an organization such as Radio Free Asia and have a weak personality. It’s just not possible.
Unlike Dylan or Victor, Robert was not somebody that one could push around — certainly not now if ever. Indeed had Robert been date raped and subsequently became aware of it, I do not think Robert would have hesitated to come forward.
At the very least, Joseph knew this. He could not afford to have a Robert who knew he was raped.
If Joseph had the slightest inkling that Robert knew what had transpired on that fateful evening, he would have to silence him or face the ruinous consequences. And for Joseph there were many.
Simply mind-boggling.
We’ve long known that the use of Ashley’s Reagent was possibly the biggest MPD screw-up among many.
But as for the rest — as I stated in response to an earlier post, it is always possible to find an expert willing to testify to an alternative opinion to support the defense. It is up to the jury to decide credibility and what the facts actually are, not up to the judge to keep the jury from making that determination.
“We didn’t do it. Don’t know who did. Leave us alone.” Joe Price is still at the wheel.
A miasma of malicious incompetence seeps from everything the MPD concluded.
When exposed to the light of day & the scrutiny of Science the governments casework stinks.
It must be really embarrassing for the good folks here who have faith in our government’s grasp of science or decency.
Dr. Franklin
First time poster, long-time reader. I know most here think that the “trouble” is guilty (and I am probably among those who thinks or thought that). At the same time, I have to say that I found the defense’s motion pretty compelling. I am a litigator (although I don’t do any criminal work), and it seems to me that the two key facts (no blood trace evidence found by the FBI + mis-use of Ashley’s) seem to indicate that the scene wasn’t cleaned (or, at least raises reasonable doubt). I can’t speak to the defense’s request to disqualify the experts, and I do wonder why the defense waited so long to file this motion, but I guess there could be a lot of reasons — nailing down the Ashley’s expert, etc. At any rate, I am rambling. What am I missing? Did others find the motion persuasive?
Didn’t work for me – but I’ve long expected the defense to be arguing that there was no blood and no clean up. Pretty standard fare to buy experts who’ll say as close as possible to what you want them to say or you fire them and get someone else – when you’ve got open checkbooks as here. The kicker will be whether the details bear out. The judge will simply deny and move on – she doesn’t want this determining the case when full cross allows the defense all the protections it needs.
If the defense could, it would find an expert and move to suppress evidence that Robert died on Swann Street – perhaps he arrived with 3 perfect stab wounds.
Seriously, this makes me yawn.
Bea:
Did you look at the photos in Exhibit B (dark though they may be)? I only just noticed them and must admit I am more than a little shocked.
I don’t question the manufacturer’s explanation, but I have a hard time squaring those blotches on the door and doorway with a reaction to “finishes, polymers or dyes” unless the crew that originally painted the place was extremely sloppy. I’m frankly surprised that the photos were included by the defense as it takes away from the power of their argument since the blotches look very much like the “missing” stains. If the Prosecution cannot support the MPD’s use of Ashley’s, the judge may not have a choice, but if there is any validity to it’s use at all, those photos may persuade her to rule otherwise.
If Ashley’s does indeed pick up blood evidence, even if it may give false readings for other substances, might the manufacturer’s opinion go to the weight the jury would assign to the evidence, rather than pointing to outright exclusion?
If it must be excluded, and tests with Luminol would have been admissible, then this indeed was the most awful error the MPD made, since those sure don’t look like varnish splotches to me.
Guys: The attached 1509 before and after photos look crappy on our copies too, not just the scans you’re seeing.
The Shaky-Cam has given way to the Smudgy-Cam.
This defense doc obviously seems rather narrowly written; it excludes any mention of defensive wounds and the involuntary actions a stabbing victim may exhibit, in which other forensic blood patterns may appear, right? My mostly uninformed read of the motion says it’s confined to pooling only.
the photos are very difficult to see, but did anyone else notice page 27? it looks like three big dripping bloodstains on a wall to me. if that is blood, how would this have happened if robert was immediately subdued/incapacitated as we presume? does anyone else see what i am seeing? or am i mistaken?
That could possibly be where the reagent was sprayed and then it drained down the wall.
If this reagent reacts to paint, dyes, etc. perhaps they should look to the evidence on surfaces in the bathrooms and kitchens. These surfaces are marble, stainless steel, ceramics, etc. It is HIGHLY unlikely that animal proteins are present in these products. Proteins are added during the manufacture of paints, varnishes, etc. to act as a binding agent. Perhaps an expert could attest to the fact that proteins are not present in particular surfaces, so a reaction to protein would have to be a reaction to something other than the surface itself.
I remember seeing a few photos of the bathroom shower when The Legal Times did a big spread on the case. There were several photos of the shower stall (porcelain most likely).
You can’t tell me that every surface they used that reagent on would render the reagent useless.
As they say, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
A little quick research shows that Ashley’s is intended for application to non-porous surfaces to further highlight blood spatter that has been previously detected by other means so that it can more easily be photographed. It is not, apparently, intended to be a primary means of detecting blood, especially on porous surfaces.
That said it does react to the presence of blood among other things, and as you note CD, there are plenty of non-porous surfaces in the bathroom.
As for the splotches in the photos, would it really have been applied in random bursts and reacted wherever sprayed, or sprayed in a thin film over a larger surface so that those splotches are the areas where it reacted?
Bea,
Looks like the “applicator” isn’t any more sophisticated than an ajax spray bottle.
www dot crimesciences dot com/StoreBox/bloodidentificationreagen/lp-05097.htm
and
www dot evidentcrimescene dot com/cata/chem/chem.html
excuse me…I was replying to Hoya’s post and Bea’s comment!
Hoya, I agree – sure looks like a bloody mess was cleaned up instead of incompetent painters. I have children and even their paint jobs in their rooms are far better than this!!!
Its “Anonymous” again (I should have picked a more distinctive name!) I guess this is where I get confused: Assuming the Ashley’s did, in fact, identify some blood (and maybe some other proteins in varnish, etc.), how can it be that the FBI didn’t find any traces of blood in all the materials sent to the lab? I guess I had assumed all along that they did find blood or body fluid on at least some of the materials they took from the house, and that the government would be relying on that evidence to show that they had cleaned the scene.
And, to clarify — I don’t think the Judge will necessarily exclude the evidence based on this motion. I think that whether or not the scene was cleaned is a jury issue (although, again, I don’t do criminal litigation). My issue is — where are the traces of blood they cleaned up?? Could they really have cleaned up that thoroughly that they left no trace for the FBI to find? Maybe I have watched too much Law and Order…
For what its worth, I can’t tell a thing from the photos — they are incredibly dark.
I’m looking forward to seeing the prosecution’s response to the Defendant’s Motion. The prosecution may have a whole different take on what evidence was found.
Just because the defense motion say so, doesn’t mean it is so.
Whether or not there was blood evidence, the defense motions appear to be a little inconsistent to me.
First, defense attorneys argue that the Government’s own testing shows that the crime scene was not cleaned.
There’s a big difference between the Government’s being unable to prove that the crime scene was not cleaned and and saying that the testing proves that the crime scene was not cleaned.
I think that the prosecution could argue that this should be a question for the jury to decide.
I can believe that the Government’s three blood evidence experts may be unqualified to testify as to what is or isn’t a consistent amount of blood expected at a crime scene. If in fact the three experts in question are unqualified, then it behooves the prosecution to find ones that are.
An argument that the testimony of former law enforcement officers will carry extra weight and prejudice a case could be used to bar the testimony of former law enforcement officers on a regular basis. I hope that the judge sees it for what it is and rejects it.
In any event, I think that most of us are agreed that this an area in which the MPD screwed up and big time.
I can only hope that a forthcoming DC forensic lab will lead to better results in the future. But I have to admit that I did not need the Wone murder case to persuade me that the MPD is not the greatest police force in the nation.
Here is an elaboration of one of my earlier scenarios:
1) Sarah “the fag hag par excellence” is given a long deserved night off and goes to the home of friends, Tom and John, where she has an absolutely “capital time”; 2) “Straight as an arrow, naive as a quiver and as accepting as a breach cloth,” Robert Wone comes (not cUms) for a a pre-planned “sleep over” at the homO of his three best Gay friends, Joseph “the William and ‘Mary’ mentor and narcissistic lawyer” Price, Victor “‘I got milk’ and my cream belongs to Joseph” Zaborsky and Dylan “the fanantical Asian aficianado and intoxicating masseur” Ward; 3) much to his surprise and consternation, Victor returns from a business trip only to find that whom he has long known to be Joseph’s unrequited love and Victor’s vicarious and tolerated friend, Robert, is visiting and it gives Victor pause to wonder why he was not informed of what he learns had been a previously arranged visit;
4) Michael “the thief in the night and high as a kite” Price misses phlebotomy class at Montgomery College for the first time; 5) while Robert innocently drinks water, Joseph, Dylan and/or Victor have COCKtails and conversation with Robert in the kitchen; 6) longtime unrequited lover of Robert, Joseph, is rebuffed by the oblivious Robert in the kitchen; 7) by Joseph, Dylan has been previously prepared for the rejection of Joseph by Robert whom Dylan knows to be Joseph’s unrequited love; 8) given Dylan’s long history as a Rice Queen, Joseph knows that Dylan will be even more hyped up than usual for the “fun and games” which Joseph and Dylan had agreed would take place later that evening, whatever Robert’s response might be; 9) Ward doses Robert’s drink with a short acting and therefore untraceable date rape drug as Joseph and Dylan had previously agreed would take place in the not unlikely event that Robert rejected Joseph’s advances;
10) feeling an unusual tiredness on account of a date rape drug he did not know was in his system, Robert goes upstairs and prepares to retire for the night 11) Robert takes off his work clothes, places his watch, wallet and Blackberry on the night table, inserts his bite plate and goes to sleep; 12) Joseph and Dylan take a drugged Robert to the “game room” and fetter him to a point which is effective for BDSM rituals and other sexual activities, but will leave no telltale signs should Robert ever seek to claim that he was raped; 13) Joseph wants Robert to be rendered sufficiently pliable but not totally limp, because it will be more entertaining for any ensuing BDSM or other sexual activities in which Joseph and/or Dylan will be the primary or exclusive participants; 14) someone who knows about injecting paralytics for the purpose of getting somebody “high,” administers such a drug to Robert; 15) BDSM rituals such as electric ejaculation stimulation and other sexual activities take place which rituals may echo pornographic videos and/or magazine renderings which will much later be discovered by police and prosecutors as part of Joseph and/or Dylan’s extensive collections thereof;
16) through all of these sexual shenanigans, Victor is sleeping upstairs as is his wont when Joseph and Victor’s bete noir, Dylan, are engaging in activities repugnant to Victor who only puts up with same for fear of losing “the love of his life” and the “man of the house” upon whom he, “the woman of the house,” depends, namely Joseph; 17) Robert suddenly and unexpectedly begins to come out of his state of suspended animation; 18) startled and afraid, Dylan places a pillow over Robert’s head to render him momentarily helpless while he awaits instructions from the cooler head, Joseph, whom Dylan relies upon as always to figure out what to do next; 19) any sounds which Robert might make at this point will be muffled on account of the pilllow which has been placed over his head; 20) the placing of the pillow over Robert’s head will ultimately lead to broken capillaries in his eyes; 21) at Joseph’s direction, Robert is administered what Joseph and Dylan believe to be a “deadly” dose of a paralytic by someone who knows about the injection of certain drugs for the purpose of achieving an overdose;
22) Joseph and Dylan breathe a sigh of relief comforted by their erroneous belief that Robert has been killed by an overdose of a paralytic; 23) unbeknownst to Joseph and Dylan, Robert is indeed on his way to, but actually has not yet arrived at “death’s door”; 24) believing that a drug induced death would likely implicate himself and Dylan as having had nonconsensual sex with Robert as well as any third party drug administrator such as Joseph’s brother, Michael, Joseph instructs Dylan to get two knives from somewhere; 25) Dylan goes to the kitchen drawer for one knife and to his room for a culinary knife from the set he always keeps there, then he returns to the game room; 26) culinary school graduate Dylan or fomer Eagle Scout Joseph methodically stab Robert to make it look as if Robert was killed by one whom they will subsequently claim to have been an outside
“intruder”
27) given that Robert is in fact not yet dead, he groans upon being stabbed much to the surprise of Dylan whose experience has led him to believe that all Asians are quiet, passive and obsequious on all occasions; 28) surprised to see that Robert is still alive, Joseph instructs the drug administator to inject even more paralytic into Robert’s system and says: “and make sure you kill him this time”; 29) Victor is awakened by a loud groan and comes downstairs to see what is going on; 30) Victor sees Robert lying there bleeding, and terrified, Victor screams: “Oh my nonanti-Gay God”; 31) Joseph says “don’t act like such a little girl, Victor,” and commands him to go back upstairs to the bedroom which Victor and Joseph share and await further instructions and of course, Victor does as he is told; 32) Dylan attempts to staunch the blood flowing from Robert’s chest in the manner Eagle Scout Joseph has instructed; 33) Joseph directs Dylan to take Robert back to the guest room where Joseph and Dylan clean Robert up, change his clothes which includes gratuitously putting a gray William and Mary tee shirt on Robert;
34) the knife wielder makes knife holes in Robert’s W&M shirt with the knife which Dylan had gotten from the kitchen as opposed to the culinary knife which was actually used to stab Robert to death; 35) Dylan ultimately places Robert in a macabre postion which mirrors that of a Shakespeare cartoon in a New Yorker magazine which is still lying on the floor of Dylan’s room where DC MPD police detectives will consequently find it; 36) various items, such as the real murder weapon, are prepared for disposal and disposition; 37) one or more persons cleans up the guest room which includes cleaning blood off the walls and floors; 38) one or more persons cleans up other areas of the house such as the washer and dryer where some of the bloody articles had been washed and dried; 39) one or more persons wrings out certain articles in the backyard and hoses down the drain; 40) one or more persons disposes of various murder related items such as the bloody culinary knife;
41) Joseph wipes the kitchen knife with a white cotton cloth to make the kitchen knife as opposed to the culinary knife appear to be the murder weapon; 42) knowing how the Blackberry mechaninsm works, Joseph makes a couple of incomplete calls on Robert’s Blackberry in order to confuse the timeframe; 43) any and all who may have been involved before, during or after the murder are provided with a common Gay “get it Straight”story (which includes a mystery intruder) by the all too clever (hopefully someday for himself), Joseph; 44) after a “Hard Day’s Night,” the trio take showers because that’s what Gay men do after they’ve been “out on the townhouse” stabbing a friend to death; 45) big firm law partner, Joseph, prepares his greatest closing argument but ultimately it’s not good enough to retain his “firm” partnership; 46) Joseph tells Victor to come downstairs; 47) Joseph prepares Victor for his greatest product sale;
48) to the emergency operator, Victor gives his newest “I’ve got Bilk” campaign bAD in order to make enough money for attorney fees in the hope that some cheezy lawyer can keep him out of jail for a crime he did commit; 49) EMT’s arrive only to find the Holy Trio clean as a whistle, wearing “royal white” robes and unusally calm for a situation in which “any body” — let alone that of an ostensibly close friend — has been found lying, dying and dyEing in a pool of blood in one’s home; 50) for reasons unstated, Joseph advises Sarah to extend her vacation at Tom and John’s and that the “Lassie should not Come Home” until Joseph gives her the “all Queer” signal; 51) Michael Price returns home into the loving arms of his partner, Louis Hinton, who gives an alibi for the man against whom he has a restraining order, because he feels badly for a Michael who looks even worse than the last time Louis saw Michael “fall off the wagon”; 52) when the police arrive at the Swann Street home, Joseph gives the police what he himself right then and there characterizes as a totally “implausable” story about an outside intruder who in the manner of Chinese Communist agents must have targeted for a “hit” the new director of Radio Free Asia;
53) Kathy Wone is informed of her husband Robert’s death at the home of some of his nearest and Queerest friends; 54) Joseph calls Kathy practically in Queers to offer his heartfelt condolences; 55) the Swann Street swingers all have tea and crumpets the following morning to celebrate, I mean commiserate over, the death of their beloved friend, Robert Wone’s, untimely, unfortunate and unfathomable — even to them his killers — death; 56) loving Robert as much as he does, Joseph feels that the only thing better than having nonconsensual sex with Robert may be shedding “crocodile tears” as a pall bearer at Robert’s funeral;
57) Kathy and the Wone family thank Joseph for always looking “out” for Robert; 58) Kathy realizes that the theretofore unthinkable is more than probable, namely that Robert’s Gayest friend, Joseph, is somehow implicated in the murder of her Straight husband; 59) though not wanting to be a racist, Kathy sees that the DC MPD doesn’t seem to have the Asian work ethic or Robert’s perfectionism and therefore has screwed up her husband’s murder case in both Column A and Column B; 60) therefore, Kathy feels she has no choice but to institute a civil suit.
N.B. If Robert in fact had not yet died from the paralytic overdose at the moment when Dylan or Joseph stabbed Robert, he would have been alive enough to swallow his own blood but dead enough to not bleed profusely.
Admirable analysis.
I question the early part of your scenario. I would be very surprised, based on the nature of their long time relationship, if Joe would have propositioned Robert directly. I think that if Robert was propositioned by Joe, he would not have stayed in the house. He certainly would not have peacefully gone to bed.
The rest of the scenario from the poisoned drink onward is quite possible. Especially the removal of Robert’s drugged body to another room. Then after Robert was killed, returning Robert’s body to the undisturbed guest room.
In my opinion, there were some pretty unglued fellas who were present at 1509 Swann Street that tragic night. They did a lot of damage to a lot of people and snuffed out the life of a most
exceptional person who would continued doing countless constructive things in this world.
Perhaps that is why they had such disdain for him. Or… perhaps he was just another body.
Eagle says: “I would be very surprised, based on the nature of their long time relationship, if Joe would have propositioned Robert directly. I think that if Robert was propositioned by Joe, he would not have stayed in the house. He certainly would not have peacefully gone to bed.”
I’ve always believed that Joe had possibly propositioned Robert in the past. Robert having been an easy-going fellow without a homophobic bone in his body brushed it off. Perhaps the nature of Joe’s propositions were playful. Easy to say “oh, don’t be silly Joe.” Share a big laugh about it and it is forgotten. Perhaps this time Joe was a bit more serious in his proposition. “Come on Robert. Give it try (drugs and sex).” Maybe Robert became angry this time. Robert was now a married man. To proposition Robert would be an insult to Kathy. Perhaps Robert became angry this time. Being too late to go home to McLean, he decided to turn in and call it a night. Deal with the nonsense in the morning.
You also have to look at Joe’s changes. Joe was now living a polyamorous life-style. A husband, a house boy, and was also trolling the internet for other interested parties to join in. Joe’s view on his own sexuality (king of the hill) and the ease at which he enjoyed his sexuality had changed in the years since he first met Robert.
A friendship formed years ago does not necessarily remain static when personalities and dynamics change.
CD:
Worthwhile points.
Yes, I agree: Joe had/has definitely “evolved”.
Your scenario is plausible.
I based my opinion on the fact that Robert made decisions carefully and cautiously.
Propositioning Robert would have put Robert on guard, I would hope.
Rethinking it, it is quite possible that Robert had not caught or understand the
the behavioral clues to Joe’s increasingly destructive personality.
Perhaps Joe was unglued enough to proposition Robert. If so Joe was even more depraved and predatory than even I thought. Perhaps this propositioning was routine for “guests” at 1509. Anyone who knows is not talking.
As for Robert, he likely thought that Joe was his long-time loyal dependable friend. If Joe did prey on/kill Robert, this was more than a physical ambush but a psychological one as well. Its pretty easy to attack someone who trusts you. Clever but rotten to the core.
Eagle,
I imagine Robert was, indeed, very thoughtful regarding decisions. But as you say, it’s pretty easy to attack someone who trusts you. Robert probably never imagined in his wildest nightmares that his life would end that night.
Those photos look like fliers for Truman Capote’s Black & White Ball rather than real crime scene evidence: is that Babe Paley’s throne on page 28?
More seriously, the Four Horsemen are definitely charging up the hill a la the Union Army at Fredericksburg; one only hopes that their piercing attacks on MPD personnel, policies and procedures will be overcome by a few well-timed cannon strikes of logic. Glenn and Cathy (with a C), hold that line!
Clio,
This might be the defense’s Pickets Charge, which was a bigger defeat for the Army of Northern Virginia.
David
That’s so true. Now, all we need is Vick(i)sburg to fall, after a grueling siege (of publicity).
Considering what went on at Swann long before Robert was murdered, I wouldn’t doubt there’s a stain or two on the walls.
I’m starting to think the MPD (and I’m sorry, I read “multiple personality disorder” every time I use the acronym) is on Joe’s payroll. (Joking, joking.)
Don’t love the gratuitous homophobic slurs, but agree that that’s probably pretty much how it all went down.
I also think that there may have been a plan that was abandoned to dump him at that vacant crack house.
I also question if this was the first time, they were so cool afterwards…
I share this link because the comment way at the bottom of the article (over 400 comments, so you need to scroll al the way down) makes reference to the Robert Wone matter…
http://www.theeagleonline.com/opinion/story/dealing-with-aus-anti-sex-brigade/
Wentworth: Thanks for the heads up.
Robert: Thanks but don’t forget the occasional page break when you’re burning up the keyboard.
All: In the run up to Monday’s status hearing, more docs have hit the clerk’s office. By the end of next week, we’re going to have a much clearer picture of the night Robert was murdered, at least from the defendants’ perspective.
Craig:
Since today is April Fool’s Day, I must ask about your statement that we will soon have “a much clearer picture of the night Robert was murdered, at least from the defendants’ perspective.” Is Ben using your moniker today? Fog and dust is what I expect is heading our way.
Respectfully,
Meto
Meto: Remember that 260 page filing, the G’s response to the D’s Motion to Suppress? Let’s just say there were some attachments.
The G’s motion itself goes up tomorrow, maybe another rare weekend post then Monday is the next (and final?) status hearing.
We’re trying to keep up and stay current. Today’s bitchin’ post by Doug went up a little while ago and is well worth the read.
While the editors already know my less than secret
identity, I am not sure that I want to reveal it to everybody if for no other reason than I wish to avoid any possible “ad hominem” attacks.
But my birthday really is April Fool’s Day! I hope that doesn’t make me a total fool.
CRAIG
You have to remember that I am technologically challenged. Therefore, you have to explain this “page break” stuff to me.
EAGLE/CDC
I think that you both make some good points about possible prior advances by Joseph toward Robert as well as Joe’s possible evolution in terms of his sexual feelings or strategy towards Robert.
Many people have speculated as to why Robert decided to stay at the Swann Street house in the first place. Some have suggested that Robert was either something other than Straight or that he was in the mood to take a “walk on the wild side.”
For a number of reasons, I do not think either of the above inferences or similar ones are true. But admittedly, this is just my personal opinion.
While Robert may have been very unhomophobic, I should have thought that not unlike most people,
he would nevertheless have been uncomfortable staying in the home of another (whether it be a Gay man or a Straight woman) — even a close friend, if he: 1) had reason to believe that this individual had unrequited love for him; 2) concluded that this individual had made serious sexual advances toward him in the past; 3) perceived that this individual was making serious sexual advances toward him in the present.
Had Joseph made unwanted, serious and obvious sexual advances toward Robert, it would be hard to believe that all of the following were true, Robert: 1) could not afford to take a taxi; 2) did not have cab fare that evening; 3) could not have called his wife Kathy Wone and said: “I need you to pick me up now, I’ll explain it to you later.”
Date rape generally occurs where the victim trusts the perpetrator at least to some degree as implied by CDINDC. Even more so when the prospective rapist is any friend — let alone a close friend. As EAGLE observes: in situations such as this, one is more likely to “let your guard down.”
Why do prospective date rapists dose the drinks of their would be victims in the first place? Because the rapist knows that the victim is willing or thinks
that the drug will be ineffective. Of course not.
Even a dumb date rapist operates in the belief that:
1) their would be victim is unwilling; 2) the drug will render the victim pliable; 3) the victim won’t remember what happened.
In addition, a smart date rapist operates in the belief that: 1) the victim will not come forward due to feelings of guilt or shame; 2) a good defense attorney could claim that the victim’s memory was impaired and thereby call her or his testimony into question.
An experienced sexual predator and/or a knowledgable lawyer would know all of the above.
Thus, there would be no need for somebody such as Joseph to make playful advances toward Robert.
However much Robert may (or may not) have been naive when Robert entered William and Mary where Joseph was his mentor, he was certainly not the ingenue protege anymore.
Indeed, I think this is one of the reasons why Joseph may have been the former “quarterback” who wanted to conquer the former “cheer leader.”
Robert’s high school classmates thought that he would be the first Asian American president of the United States. He held all sorts of student government positions at W&M.
As someone who has vast experience with student governments, ethnic associations, major law firms,
nonprofit groups and political organizations, I can tell you that one cannot be the general counsel of an organization such as Radio Free Asia and have a weak personality. It’s just not possible.
Unlike Dylan or Victor, Robert was not somebody that one could push around — certainly not now if ever. Indeed had Robert been date raped and subsequently became aware of it, I do not think Robert would have hesitated to come forward.
At the very least, Joseph knew this. He could not afford to have a Robert who knew he was raped.
If Joseph had the slightest inkling that Robert knew what had transpired on that fateful evening, he would have to silence him or face the ruinous consequences. And for Joseph there were many.