The Trouple Now A Couple…And Maybe Not Even That
Periodically we like to take the temperature of the defendants to learn how they’re holding up. Sure, we see them at the Moultrie Courthouse, but they’re not exactly talkative. So how are they spending the rest of their days? Where are they living? And how are they picking up their pin money?
We start with the Brothers Price and with former Arent Fox partner Joe Price, about whom the least is known. Judging by the 4-inch binder he brought to January’s status hearing and the intense sidebars he has with their legal teams before, during and after the sessions, we suspect at least a portion of Joe’s days are spent working on the case. (Some commentors have even seen Joe’s hand in several of the legal motions of late; that’s entirely possible, but we can’t say for certain.) How this actually generates income is unknown. Perhaps the Legal Defense Fund is going great guns?
For his part, brother Michael (who has taken a new role in the government’s Notice of Uncharged Conduct I) remains employed on 14th Street…for now, at least…behind the counter at soon-to-close boutique Go Mama Go!. He was spotted working late at a recent reception for local photographer M.V. Jantzen, looking somewhat fit and stylish. Go Michael Go! The closing of Go Mama Go!, and the passing of founder Noi Chudnoff, will leave a hole on the street, in the community, and potentially in Michael’s pocket. Hopefully, he remains employed at neighboring shops as well.
Good news for dairy-lovers: Victor Zaborsky is back with MilkPEP. Last year we learned from the IDFA he was no longer attached to the association, despite what’s generally seen as his successful stewardship of the “Got Milk?” campaign. We decided to phone MilkPEP anyway, and were surprised what we heard:
In case you can’t hear it, in response to the question “…is Victor Zaborsky in?” we hear a quick “Yes, one moment…” and are briskly transferred. Actually, earlier in the week when we phoned we heard Victor Zaborsky’s voice on the outgoing message. Sadly that audio clip got erased and by the time we phoned back we got the generic message. Still, it seems unlikely that were Victor still not with MilkPEP they would answer in the affirmative and a quick transfer. Victor’s LinkedIn profile has also changed: when last we checked it listed Victor as “President at Marketing Consultant.” However a recent check seems to indicate Victor is back at MilkPEP, now coordinating the Hispanic “Got Milk?” campaign.
Oh, it seems Dylan is back at work also…but not where you might suspect. And it’s here the story gets more interesting.
If you live in South Florida or will be visiting soon, you can once again book a massage with Dylan Ward. A slick profile is now appearing online on a gay city guide, complete with hours, services offered, fees and contact information.
“I love what I do: The subtle power of suggestive touch reminds us what it’s like to feel good…both in our own skin and out in the world,”
…he writes in his bio section. Sounds good!
Just how good depends on what type of massage you’re looking for. While “…enthusiastically…” recommending traditional Thai full-body massage for its therapeutic benefits, he also provides Swedish, Deep Tissue and Sensual sessions for one or two hours, starting at $90/hour for in-calls.
In case you’re wondering, the website thoughtfully links to its definitions of how therapists describe their services. “Sensual”, we learn…
“Yes, this is the kind of massage you get when you happen to score a hot date with a love for manipulating your body with his hands. However, it does actually have a place in the office of massage therapists. Using some of the same techniques as those that lovers use, such as placing candles around the room and moving the giver’s whole body against the receiver during the massage, sensual massage uses nice touch to give you a feel good feeling. It can be just the right thing for when you need a sexy touch but don’t want to have to go through dinner and a movie to get it.”
We phoned the contact number listed – blocked out here for privacy. It is an active number, with this outgoing phone message:
We did not leave a message.
Of course it’s possible this is an old profile from before Dylan’s extradition from Florida…just as it’s possible that Victor’s LinkedIn profile is old, too. After all, Joe Price’s LinkedIn account still lists him as Partner at Arent Fox. And at least one of the photos may date back to 2005 and Dylan, Joe, Victor and Sarah’s trip to Italy.
However, just as it seems unlikely a receptionist would answer affirmatively to “…is Victor in?…”, it also seems unlikely that Dylan would keep this profile active if it were, in fact, old. Otherwise, his phone would have been constantly ringing for over a year with massage requests. And if it is active, this strongly suggests Dylan is back living in Florida, as that’s the only place where he’s doing in/out calls.
The editors here don’t begrudge anyone from making a living. We certainly don’t make judgments on massage therapists. However, given the nature of the charges, it seems a bit off to be advertising for services that…well, so fully cater to the “Sensual.” In and out calls? Looking back, there appears to be a history of poor discretion on the part of some of the defendant’s choices since Robert’s murder.
All of this, combined with earlier suspicions, aligns with street rumors we’ve been hearing here at wmrw.com that the Trouple are no longer living together. Some of those rumors, however, go a step further, suggesting that Victor is no longer living with Joe, either, and that none are living with Aunt Marcia.’s
Any change of address would be registered with the DC Court’s Pretrial Services and we’re working to confirm through that office. For Ward to now be living outside the jurisdiction, that would more than likely have been signed off by a judge. Was this relaxation of pretrial restrictions one of Judge Weisberg’s last acts? He did afer all remove their electronic monitoring anklets some months ago as well as roll back their regular drug testing requirements.
We are again left with questions. Just where were Dylan and Victor going that Joe wasn’t? If Victor is working at MilkPEP again, is it possible he’s telecommuting? Could Dylan be living at the Miami Shores property, and could he have a roommate? And if – a big if – neither Dylan or Victor are living in McLean, could Joe be residing in his R Street condo? And why wasn’t Aunt Marcia, a loyal supporter, at January’s status hearing?
–posted by Doug
How interesting. MV Jantzen took pictures of Robert Wone’s grave marker a few years ago and put them online in his website photo album. What relation does he have to Michael Price?
A call should be made to the Florida media where Dylan is plying his prostitution trade. How many clients would want a “sensual massage” by Dylan Ward after knowing what he is suspected of doing? The thought of having any skin contact with him gives me the willies.
Nelly,
MV Jantzen is a close friend of the editors. He has taken some photos for us in connection to the Web site.
His only relation to Michael Price is the store where Michael Price works (soon to be past tense as it is going our of busines) hosted a show of MV Jantzen’s photos. That’s the only connection.
David
Dylan’s profile is an old one — before his extradition.
Vandy,
And how do you know this to be?
David
Despite my earlier suggestion that the trouple are no longer together, I have absolutely no information on that one way or the other.
Friend – We’ve had multiple sources on this issue. Don’t worry, we weren’t basing this on whatever you may have offered.
Vandy – Are you saying this is no longer active? How do you know? And why would anyone continue to solicit calls for services they haven’t provided for years?
-Doug, co-editor
I didn’t think so, just wanted to clarify.
If Dylan is still offering those services, I think somebody should put a call into the Florida State Police and make them aware of Dylan’s situation.
Even presuming that the services at issue are beyond legal massage therapy, the cops won’t do a thing about it. Local law enforcement in major cities throughout the country are well aware of escort services and massage therapist services posing as fronts for illegal prostitution — the ads are ubiquitous on online sites and in the back of magazines/newspapers — and they largely have zero interest in investigating or prosecuting.
I’m not saying that they would be concerned about a prostitute, just that they might be concerned about a prostitute who is alleged to have been involved with a murder that appears to have included sexual assault.
Good point.
A gal can dream of a trouple break-up, but is it true? I think Dylan WayWard could be touching strangers in Florida and still consider himself part of the trouple, but if Joe and Victor are living apart in the DC area then something truly is amiss. Victor, at his core, is likely a fairly conventional fellow (except for the conspiracy/obstruction/tampering) – if he’s no longer under Joe’s spell, or his (metaphorical) roof, he might have an independent thought and listen to what Connolly has to say.
Victor has a paycheck. Dylan has a paycheck (well, cash and a lot of “tips”). If Joe is living in his old condo then that just means he’s not getting rent $ for it – and he’s got to pay his mortgage(s) somehow, but with what? I suspect that some apologist attorney may be giving him piece work, or even that he’s got temp gigs through an agency reviewing documents, but he’s not making half of what he once made even if he’s working full time. And then there’s all that cutting and pasting he’s doing with the Motion work of his own, so he’s “staying busy”. But has the love slipped away?
The possibilities are endless. Best Monday news in a while.
Oh I wish I were still in D.C. lording over temps, only to see Joe’s sorry ass coming in.
Thing of beauty.
The Great Recession is officially over: the members of the trouple are employed!
I do wonder if Victor knows any Spanish from his boyhood in Oklahoma: what skills could he possibly bring to an advertising campaign targeted at Hispanics?
A stray thought: could a telecommuting Victor working on a Hispanic ad campaign be living with Dyl in Miami Shores? Ma’am keeping a tight leash (not literally) on her girlfriend, as their hubby slaves away on their defense in DC?
Clio,
Great question. We know that when the high surveillance restrictions were lifted one of the reasons was Victor’s active business travel to Florida.
David
Maybe since Victor is the gainfully employed one, Dylan dumped Joe for Victor. And could the two of them REALLY dump Joe as a result (as in down the drain, down the river)?
It could happen Bea! LOL I’m sure the boys do the lesbian square dance every once in a while.
Which brings to mind one of my favorite jokes:
What do lesbians do on their second date?
Rent a U-Haul.
What do gay men do on their second date?
What second date?
I would love to see Vic-N-Dyl break up with Joe just for the entertainment value. Though I’d much prefer Victor shed them both and make an appointment with Mr. Connolly.
I rather suspect that Joe may be doing legal consulting on intellectual property work and/or his other specialty areas. With his experience, he could probably earn a rather decent hourly rate.
“Legal consulting” is really just contract work. If his connections within the IP world (my world too) want to help him enough, they could give him work and pay him an hourly rate for billed hours – it’s a decent living (not nearly what he had before) IF his contacts want to help him. If not, he’s in the mix with every other unemployed lawyer who reviews litigation documents by the thousands at a far lower hourly rate (and is treated with commensurate attitude).
Dylan received his massage training in 2006 and 2007. The ad says he has 3 years experience. Wouldn’t that imply that the ad is current?
Good point.
I suppose the only way to find out for sure is for one of us to volunteer and book an appointment. Anybody? Anybody?
Don’t all speak up at once . . .
Does he entertain both female and male clients? Somehow, I think that he reserves his “sensual” services for the twig-and-berries set.
Oops … someone’s already left a “review” on Dylan’s massage ad about his connection to the Wone case.
There are two reviews for Dyl that refer to the Wone case. How will this affect her business?
It will be interesting to see how long the profile stays up now that there are a couple of “reviews.” No denying they are unfavorable reviews!
If they ad comes down pronto, you can bet Dylan is monitoring this and that site. If it lingers, he’s not looking here or there.
Oh but Bernie & Co. have to have a low level associate keeping an eye on us – as I said to Craig just now, can only imagine how well this will go over with the defense team!
So, the Harlot’s Progress leads from McLean to Miami Shores … and back again: thanks, Judge Weisberg, for that parting blow. At least, Michael is not turning tricks … yet.
The sickest thing is that the events of 2 August 2006 apparently liberated Dyl to become a full-scale, no-holds-barred whore. With his reputation as a drawing-room dilettante in shambles and with his family back home knowing all about his business, he probably thought that he had (and has) nothing to lose by posting these kinds of disgraceful, border-line ads. He’s never been happier, probably; his depression magically lifted by the crescendo of happy endings. Full body contact, indeed!
I just visited the PCG site with Mr. Ward’s listing, and I must say that it is not always rated PG.
I found the two public pictures of Mr. Ward much more attractive, though, than the lined Dorian Gray outside of Moultrie that we’ve come to know. His brown eyes (a la Needham) remain his best feature, even if they are now permanently encased by crow’s feet. The picture of tanned Dyl with the see-through white top and hint of chest hair must be from Italy, 2005. He hasn’t looked that good since. Has anyone registered with the site to see the “Additional Photos” file? What could possibly be in there?
Oh I’m pretty sure charming Dyl was a full-on for hire prostitute long before he insinuated himself into Joe and Victor’s marriage.
A question this raises for me is whether Joe (and/or Victor) knew about this advertising venture.
Certainly there’s nothing inherently illegal about offering massage services, especially by a licensed therapist, but one has to wonder about the optics of advertising online like this, and certainly the timing, two months away from their trial.
The language too, is nothing but red flags, “sensual… score a hot date.. manipulating your body… whole body against the receiver… sexy touch.”
This begs the question as to whether Price was in the dark about all of this, or was he unable to veto it?
Then again, the guy who registered eyecandydvds.com shortly after his friend Robert was murdered in an alleged sexual attack, might not be the go-to guy for counsel on matters of discretion online.
Yeah, I wonder the same thing. They do like playing with fire. And straps. And harnesses. And spacer bars. And. . .
I would love to see the expression on Bernie & Co.’s face when they get wind of this!
I’m sure they’d be much happier if he had gone back to writing childrens’ books.
I wonder if Mr. Ward’s professors at Simmons know about his present occupation. And, if so, how do they categorize Dyl in the assessment of the productivity of their graduate program?
What does Spag really think of Dyl, especially after the relevation of this ad? Does he view him with sympathy, interest, or barely-veiled contempt? Or, is it just another pay check?
Clio: The Simmons faculty may have more grist come tomorrow afternoon.
Reams of documents hit the clerk’s office this week including an interesting one from Kirchner’s office. David is trawling though it now for Wednesday’s post.
The tease: The Government has plans for those photos found on Joe’s computer.
Tomorrow, the reveal.
Regarding Joe’s condo at 1727 R St NW:
1 – His 2009 taxes ($3000ish total) were paid on the due date. The 2010 taxes are $2400ish, since the assessment went from $324k to $301k.
2 – He is not receiving the homestead deduction, meaning either a) he does not live there, b) he lives there and household income for the previous year was over $100,000, or c) he has not filed for the deduction.
3 – The address on record is still 1509 Swann Street.
4 – DCRA does not show a valid business license in Price’s name or at the address. A license is required for all rental property in DC, and must be renewed every two years. Anybody want to report him?
http://cpms.dcra.dc.gov/BBLV/default.aspx
5 – If anyone knows the defendants’ license plate numbers, it’s possible to see parking tickets and photo enforcement tickets online. https://wmq.etimspayments.com/pbw/include/dc_parking/input.jsp?ticketType=P
Hmm….interesting Penelope. I think most of us have been under the assumption that Joe et al liquidated their Washington DC properties.
However, as you’ve shown us, he hasn’t. Joe still owns the R Street condo, which has a tax mailing address of 1509 Swann St. 1509 Swann St was purchased by William R. Herman. William R. Herman is a founder of Urban Realty Advisors LLC (now part of Monument Realty). From the internet: “URA offers a range of development and brokerage services for third-party clients. Its advisory and consulting practice includes due diligence, feasibility analyses, financial strategies and asset management for single properties and portfolios.”
Sounds like Joe et al may have used an asset management plan to protect his real estate investments.
Also from the internet: “Asset protection planning is used to protect assets that would otherwise be at risk of lawsuits or at the risk of claims of creditors. Asset protection planning may involve preparing for the possibility of future lawsuits by rearranging the ownership of assets so that they are beyond the reach of potential creditors.”
Well, I’ll be.
I hope that Mrs. Wone’s civil suit people have minions that follow this blog. Well done Penelope!
A little more about asset management that I’ve learned from the internet…..the litigators can still attempt to gain the assets through the courts, but if the asset protection strategy is solid enough, the opposing counsel’s costs trying to get to the assets may far exceed the assets themselves. They may walk away and declare it not worth the effort.
Wow. If this is the case, then Joe would have three mortgages – Swann Street, R Street and the Florida residence. I guess he would pay the Swann Street mortgage Monument Realty?How on earth could they afford to do this? I wonder who is living on Swann Street? Maybe I should go knock on the door.
FCH,
It’s Girl Scout cookie time. Know any Girl Scouts?
“Thin Mints?”
Typo alert: WILLIAM N HERMAN not William R. Sorry.
I’ve been known to do drag a few times in my life, but, at 48, the chances of passing myself off as a girl scout are very slim.
FCH, borrow a girl scout. LOL
“I guess he would pay the Swann Street mortgage Monument Realty?How on earth could they afford to do this?”
renting out one or both properties would help. he could get a large amount of rent for the swann street property – maybe even enough to cover the mortgage plus profit.
great find penelope and cddc!
Fascinating research, CD! I wonder if there are signs of a business or social connection between Price and Herman. Come to think of it, Robert worked in real estate law at Covington – might he have known Herman?
Interestingly, Mr. Herman receives the homestead deduction – how the heck does he manage a million dollar mortgage on an AGI under $100,000 (the requirement for the deduction)? One has to file for the deduction – it doesn’t just happen automatically. I smell a fish.
Who knows…it may or may not mean a thing, but it certainly gives reason to consider the ways in which Joe et al may be funding their defense and/or protecting their assests. Nothing in this case is clear cut. And lately, we’ve been encouraged to consider alternatives.
In the very least, Joe still owns 1727 R. That’s clear as a bell.
Penelope:
Thanks for your analysis. I have one modest correction that may be related to definition of terms. I don’t think the D.C. Homestead Exemption as that term is generally used is subject to any AGI limitation. Without giving away details, my family lives in D.C., we own a home and we have AGI that exceeds $100,000. But we receive the Homestead Exemption. I think the AGI limitation affects how the Homestead Exemption is adjusted, but the right to the Homestead Exemption is a matter of right on one Principal residence that is actually used as a residence. So Mr. Herman would have to own the property, it would have to be his principal residence, and he would actually have to live there.
It is a matter of public record that a number of fairly high profile persons have claimed the Homestead Exemption (e.g. Karl Rove) and the challenge to their use of the exemption has not been based on income level.
Respectfully,
Meto
Oops! I stand corrected – I must’ve mixed up income requirements for the various exemptions DC offers. Thanks, Meto.
http://otr.cfo.dc.gov/OTR/cwp/view,a,1330,q,594163.asp
Penelope:
No worries Penelope. Just trying to keep the record “straight.” And as always with taxes there are tons of different rules. I remain fascinated in your underlying analysis regarding who the beneficial owner of Swann Street may turn out to be.
Respectfully,
Meto
Address Unit SSL License # Description Detail Last Name First Name Corporate Name Trade Name Start Renewal End Renewal License Status
1727 R ST NW 69009430 HOUSING: RESIDENTIAL COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATION null null PIERRE CONDOMINIUM null 2009/10/01 2011/09/30 ISS
“We have no choice but to sell and liquidate every asset in order to pay this staggering sum . . .”
Riiiiight.
Gee, Joe lied in his craven appeal for funds to support his legal defense, I’m shocked.
Ok, I’m not shocked, but one does wonder how those that sent those non-tax-deductible contributions feel now. I know that there are some die-hards out there, but it seems that even Victor’s auntie has pulled back a bit. I wonder if these asset concealment shenanigans are know to all of them?
So how many happy endings does sweet Dylan have to deliver each month to pay the mortgage on the Fl. home?
Somehow I doubt that tender Dyl is expected to deal with life’s vicissitudes to such a degree that he is relied on to meet a mortgage payment.
At $95 an hour? One a day to make the “rent.” Two a day to if baby needs new shoes. LOL
Silly CD, Dyl doesn’t wear $95 shoes – heck, the Gucci loafers for court set him back $350! Oh right, Needham takes him back-to-court shopping in the fall.
I doubt that Joe/Vic still “own” 1509 despite the mailing address usage. Most public filings identify PO Boxes.
Wonder if the Miami Shores property lease filed in court was even legitimate (needed at the time to show the boys weren’t flight risks). The tenant was a woman with a child if I recall correctly, and I suspect her name was redacted. Think she lets Vic and Dyl sleep over when they’re in town? Maybe Daddy N (as opposed to Daddy J) pays his rent in a posh little apartment/”studio”. My guess is that Daddy N will pay through the nose to prevent him from moving back to Tacoma where tongues would wag.
Maybe Dyl can try staying at that houseboat that Andrew Cunanan pried his way into.
Donatella better watch out. Does Dyl swing both ways?
LOL Bea! Of course, Dyl doesn’t wear $95 shoes. He doesn’t even need shoes in his new profession.
Bea, what do you mean by “most public filings identify PO Boxes.”
I looked up my partner’s DC condo, her mailing address for tax purposes is the condo address. I also looked up her neighbor’s record which is a rental unit. The tax address is an address other than the condo address. A forwarding, if you will. Both are street addresses.
I agree that Joe et al probably don’t “own” (wink wink) Swann Street any long. With asset management, the “ownership” would be “rearranged” so that it appears they do not own it. They may be weaving a very tangled web.
They may be weaving a tangled web, but I am sure that Joe has had plenty of practice when he is inclined to deceive.
(with apologies to Sir Walter)
Yes, Joe keeps spinning away, just like that spider on the light.
I re-checked the lease on Miami Shores. The tenant’s name was Nikki Ferguson and child “Joey”. The lease, unless renewed, expired on 12/15/2009. Monthly payments were $3,300, payable to a PO Box in DC.
If only Dylan is in FL, I suspect he has a swanky studio paid by Needham, “to keep him comfortable and out of trouble”.
The Swann Street property was officially sold, with the new owner living in the house. I doubt that Joe finagled some kind of asset transfer and had his name removed. DC real estate records indicate a sale took place.
However, as we have discussed in previous posts, Joe was not forthcoming with regards to the “liquidation” of all his assets – R Street condo and Miami Shores are still in his and/or Victor’s names.
Michael says: ” I doubt that Joe finagled some kind of asset transfer and had his name removed.”
Hmm…..Joe’s a crafty one. I don’t doubt it for a second. Amazing coincidence that Joe sold his house to an “asset management” executive, don’t you think?
Although not a web expert by any means, cant we look at Dylan’s webpage, click on “view” and then “source” and see the date coding for the original posting and any edits?
The hair on the back of my neck stood out at the thought of someone having a massage by him.
Yup, in Firefox you can right-click anywhere in the page, select page info on the menu, and that’ll show the modified date. It looks like the page his profile is on uses some fancy Flash or something, and it shows the current date and time as the modified date. However, if you log in and view Dylan’s additional pictures in a separate page, the modified date shown is 10/13/2008.
Another Dylan tidbit. I looked up his Florida massage license, and it expires 8/31/2011. Florida requires license renewal every two years, so he would’ve renewed the license in 2009.
Well, then, the modified date for the additional photos is just on the eve of Mr. Ward’s time in the Florida brig. Fascinating!
Great work Penelope! Thanks for looking into that.
Editors, define “somewhat fit and stylish” in reference to the younger Price.
Well, one day of bad reviews has not caused Dyl to pull down his advertisement yet. I guess he really does not care what people say or feel.
The pedestrian boilerplate in the ad is, though, sickeningly ironic in light of the particulars of the case: “shower available,” “fresh linens used for each client,” “professional quality body products used,” etc. Ugh!
It does seem, from my cursory online research, that Dyl’s prices are on the low side for his area: is being a middle-aged Puck a hard aesthetic sell in a resort area?
Well, at least Aunt Marcia can finally live in peace without having in-calls at all hours. No more incessant Bravo shows and impromptu makeovers for her!
As I posted a few days back that ad existed in 2009.
I completely support finding justice for Robert Wone, but wonder if this post doesn’t come dangerously close to harassment; let’s remember, none of these defendants have been charged with murder let alone found guilty of anything at all related to this case. There are many valid questions which this site explores, but to make fun of the defendants and provide enough information to know their personal information, and then to sort of mock it, somehow feels wrong. What if they are completely innocent? I have no idea, but unless and until a jury finds them guilty of murder, these innuendos beyond analysis of facts seem highly questionable – and could they potentially open you up to harassment charges? Also, are you sure that taping and posting the phone messages and the receptionist is legal? I have no idea but throw out these thoughts; in other words, let’s take the high ground…or am I missing something?
IMHO, it is okay and legal because this information is all already part of the public record, and Dylan Ward himself put that profile and ad out touting himself. Rather, we are helping to protect his would-be customers from possible harm. It’s just like posting negative reviews about a bad restaurant or a doctor who has had numerous disciplinary actions, or a lawyer who has had grievances filed, whether true or not. It’s not as if the editors of this website are telling people to go pose as a customer for Dylan and kill him or set his house on fire, follow Joe and slash his tires, or call Victor Zaborsky at work every day cursing at him.
No, but some of that will probably happen if these guys are acquitted.
Hi Wentworth, welcome.
Are you perhaps thinking of libel? If so, it is the burden of the plaintiffs in a libel suit to prove that the defamatory statements are false. So, for instance, Dylan would have to prove he’s not being paid for any questionable services.
In any event, we are merely discussing hypothetical circumstances surrounding a publicly disclosed criminal charge. No one on this site is saying or can prove that any theories discussed actually happened. We are all, including myself, theorizing. Proving the truth is up to the authorities.
I *get* what Wentworth is saying. I too felt uncomfortable when I read some of the thread above, particularly the mocking ($95 shoes, etc). Believe me, I’m securely in the camp that says they did it and/or knew what happened that night, but I do think we need to stay above board, stick to facts and even theorizing…but taking the high road, as Wentworth said.
The site has taken the high road; the harshest comments turn out to be merely arch or just a tad bit catty. Do they take away from the seriousness of finding justice for Robert? No. Do they keep people reading the dry-as-dust legal documents? Yes. Even Bernie, despite his losing hand, is probably enjoying the periodic quips interspersed with the legal give-and-take.
In the thread above I note at least one anti-gay “joke” and a threat to carry out vigilant justice – perhaps meant as a joke, but humor doesn’t translate in this context. if I were the defense attorneys and read this blog post I would file a complaint of harassment and stalking – which would likely get tossed but isn’t frivolous – and file a motion for a change of venue outside of DC due to prejudicial rable rousing. I don’t see the difference of anit-abortion websites that print addresses and personal info in an inflamatory context (whether it is publicly available or not). My point ultimately being that I think such posts do nothing to help Mr. Wone’s case and only give the defense counsel reason to file distracting motions should they be so emboldend.
Wentworth, what do you think about the Gawker posts? the posts on the abovethelaw blog, the Washington Post? Also, just a note, the internet reaches far outside of the environs of DC. I, for example, am in Los Angeles.
Besides, (not to make light of your concerns) if someone from this site were stalking them, we would know where they are.
Hi Wentworth,
As a lesbian in California, and the maker of the “Dyl doesn’t wear $95 shoes” joke, I appreciate your point of view but just disagree that any of these threads or posts are out of line. I’m a lawyer, though this would be a bit outside my area of practice, but I don’t see legal issues here and I’m guessing other lawyers don’t either (and suspect the Eds. have talked about their boundaries with counsel). The comments have to be viewed in context.
That I’m aware of, no one has remotely suggested that they’re considering genuine vigilantism. Once in a while we’ve had posters object to certain humor (the portliness of Joe Price comes to mind), and to each his/her own – no one agrees all the time. I have no stats but expect that the percentage of gay/lesbian posters is far higher than the percentage in the population, and that most of what could be perceived of as “anti-gay” isn’t “homophobic” if you understand the distinction.
Hope this helps.
Wentworth:
I don’t believe that venue can be changed in this case. This is not a federal court case so the case cannot be brought in a federal court elsewhere and I am unaware of a change of venue case in a state jurisdiction that moves out of the state as opposed to say from L.A. to Sacramento, CA. So actually I believe a change of venue motion would be frivolous because D.C. is sui generis.
Having said that and without being critical of any particular posting or poster, I am concerned that public assertions calling for investigations in Florida may, based upon the information actually available, give rise to some legal claims. From Hill Street Blues, “Let’s be careful out there.”
Respectfully,
Meto
“Florida, Florida, Florida!” again. Thanks, Meto, for that wise counsel; it is no wonder Caesar keeps you around.
As for $95 shoes, I must confess that my most expensive pair cost $70 from Shoe Carnival. I guess that references to shoes, as with other things, vary by region and class.
As for Dylan’s public posting of his availability to provide services by appointment that are obviously not confined to massage; that was his decision (including the bizarre and strangely arrogant choice to use his real name). I think that solicitation of his is dated and I don’t think that he is in Florida, but the advertisement is there for anyone to find if they know how to search, and it is relevant.
I don’t think that aggregating every single scrap of publicly available information about these suspects and inviting comment on it is illegal in any way. I do find it interesting as a process and the only things that I have seen that are even remotely like it are the PerugiaShock blog that still covers the Amanda Knox case and in fractured English attempts to present an alternative to the media hysteria that that case has engendered in Europe and the efforts on their blog of Hugues de la Plaza’s family and friends to keep his unsolved murder in San Francisco in 2007 (originally somewhat bizarrely called a suicide) in the public conversation. The de la Plaza blog succeeded in getting his death officially ruled a homicide and pushing the story onto the CBS 48 hours show. Maybe they will find out who killed him yet. Maybe if one of those television shows became interested in Robert’s murder someone who knows something might come forth. Who knows. Would that be harassment?
Probably there are other blogs dedicated to other crimes that I am not aware of. There are facebook pages that attempt something like this; there was one for the infamous killer of local cats in Florida, and he was caught (though probably not because of the facebook page). There is a facebook page dedicated to the memory of cyclist Darcy Sheppard who was struck and killed in 2009 by (now) former Ontario attorney general Michael Bryant. Bryant has been charged with criminal negligence and will stand trial, in part because of the relentless public pressure of Mr. Sheppard’s friends.
So, to my mind these types of citizen journalist efforts do not fall under the rubric of harassment or cross legal boundaries. I do think the kind of organized scrutiny that the internet provides is unprecedented. There may have been a time not long ago when someone could be under indictment for serious crimes like these and simply hare off to another state (or even down the block) and blithely enter people’s home to give massages or whatever services they are offering (from prostitution to catering) with no one the wiser, but not now.
>>I think that solicitation of his is dated<<
The ad was heavily revised over the weekend. Removed were the name Dylan, the photos, the bio, the cell phone number, hourly rates and the comments pointing out his involvement in the case. Yet the ad was not taken down and still advertises massage services in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale with contact to be made by filling out a form in the ad. So the ad is currently being actively monitored and presumably used to attract business by its owner.
Gama says: “So the ad is currently being actively monitored and presumably used to attract business by its owner.”
As well as, most likely, this site. Probably how Dylan knew to make adjustments to his listing.
We’re not doing anything that Nancy Grace doesn’t do everyday on tv. And no one has been able to silence her piehole yet. But I’m hoping (not a big Nancy Grace fan here).
“I love what I do” … “the subtle power of suggestive touch” … “both in our own skin and out in the world” … these are the words of a confident trickster, not of a beaten, lost boy. I somehow think that Mr. Ward, despite advancing age, will not change his career again. Through the crucible of this tragedy, he may have found his true calling in life. Outrageous!
Gay people are the kindest and most thoughtful people in the world. And since the beginning of time all they’ve ever been is cursed.
Deear Brother Clause:
Good One! Compassionate Thinking.
It’s all that homophobia, anti-Semitism and hassle with a person’s nationality and ethnicity that should not be found on this site.
It should not pop up anywhere.
Just look at poor dear Tyler Climenti at Rutgers. What most folks do not know is that he was trying to get removed that room with that hateful roommate and unsuccessful. Now, that will become quite the civil trial, if not criminal one, and the University is going to have to work at getting out from it.
I guess these and hurtful and evil folks can be found everywhere.
We shall try to screen them out and live peacefully and civilly.
Thank you for your insights.
With Every Good Wish,
Rich