The Toxicology Report
For the past three years, case watchers have held many unanswered questions regarding several aspects of drugs, testing and blood samples. Both prosecution and defense teams have shared some of those questions.
In the original affidavit, the government theorizes that prior to his stabbing Robert Wone was injected with paralytics. They base this on two factors: he showed no signs of defensive wounds of fending off the knife attack, and the autopsy revealed a number of unexplained “needle puncture marks.”
Sic Semper InKompletus
Much of the last year’s legal battles at the status hearings involved what other tests the government could perform on the scant amount of blood saved, only 3 or 4 cc’s.
We’ve long known what specific drugs Robert’s blood and tissues had already been tested for – they’re spelled out by Medical Examiner Lois Goslinoski in the indictment. However those test results, all negative, combined with the puzzling puncture marks and lack of defensive wounds, led Dr. Goslinoski to speculate:
“…there are various incapacitating or paralytic drugs for which no tests were run as there was no early indication — in light of the statements that Price, Zaborsky and Ward gave to the police — that Mr. Wone may have been injected with any such drugs while at the Swann Street residence.”
The prosecution has posited that an unknown agent was used to incapacitate Robert, but the defense has, for just as long, argued the government could provide no specific, positive evidence as to what specific agent was used.
At the May 22nd status hearing, Zaborsky defense attorney Thomas Connolly pressed the prosecution to test for “…anything they wanted…just get it done…”, even if it meant consuming Robert’s last remaining blood samples. Mr. Connolly’s repeated, boisterous calls for any and all needed testing were notable for their seeming confidence.
We have long speculated whether ketamine could account for the curious circumstances around Robert’s murder. However, the affidavit did not specifically mention whether ketamine was tested for – and you can’t prove a negative, or a thing by its absence.
Now, guesswork yields to lab work.
Signed by Rory M. Doyle, Deputy Chief Toxicologist of the DC Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, the 10th and final page of Robert Wone’s autopsy report answers this lingering toxicological mystery.
The toxicology laboratory pulled several specimens for testing: Femoral blood (2), heart blood (2), urine, bile, vitreous, liver, brain, and gastric.
Tests were performed to determine the presence of:
“…ethanol, acetone, methanol, isopropanol…amphetamines, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, cocaine metabolites, methadone, methamphetamines, opiates, phencyclidine (PCP), propoxyphene…gamma-hydroxybutyrate…(and) carbon monoxide…”
All tests were negative – or in the normal range. It is now certain that NO testing was done for ketamine.
And since ketamine has a short half-life, with residue testing at its limits at 2-4 days, not 2-4 years, all parties can safely assume any further testing on the remaining blood samples will never show positive for ketamine.
Now we fully understand why, at an earlier status hearing, Zaborsky counsel Tom Connolly was more than happy to let the government exhaust any remaining amounts of Robert Wone’s blood.
When it comes to ketamine in this case, there’s just no there there.
-posted by Craig and Doug
On the Docket: We’ll have full blown coverage of this Friday’s status hearing, the first presided over by the new judge assigned to the case, Lynn Leibovitz.
I check this site daily and follow with interest not only your investigative reports but also the back-and-forth of the regulars. I wish I had something of substance to contribute. You can be certain there are others out here like me, reading faithfully and hoping for justice one day. I no longer live in the DC area but if I did, you would certainly see me at hearings lending support to this cause. Bless you all for your continued work and continued interest. I did not know Robert and only know of this case from the press but I’m here, in the background, and I care. I know I am not the only one. Keep the faith, keep up the good work, and keep posting, regulars!
Thanks, Laura.
Each of us are drawn to this case for our own reasons, but a few always seems to stand out — to find the truth about what happened that night and obtain justice for Robert’s family and friends.
We are so glad you are part of the team!
David, co-ed.
Laura, it’s always nice to hear fresh insights if anything strikes you – even if it seems obscure or if you disagree with some/many of us.
I’m here in the background daily too (sometimes multiple times a day)- and I second Laura’s statements of thanks and support! Keep it going, folks!!
To second David’s comment to Laura, thank you, and do come back.
-Doug, co-editor
I guess tissue samples were not analyzed from the puncture sites either.
If the punctures were subcutaneous injections with liquid ketamine, these injections sites would have appeared red, swollen & irritated to the emergency responders.
I also noticed the ME did not swab Wone’s hands for semen–an obvious test to determine if his semen was from masturbation rather than some elaborate inflicted electrical scenario.
It’s looking more and more like Wone was suddenly & unexpectedly stabbed by someone known to him after masturbating.
And it’s looking more and more like the affidavits are the product of misconduct & incompetence by the investigation & prosecution teams.
The defendants should retain civil attorneys, too.
Too bad you aren’t qualified to represent them, Ben.
Ho,
My only stake in this is truth & don’t care where that takes us.
Do me a favor & report back Ward’s physical appearance & fitness & strength level if you go to that hearing on Friday. Pay special attention to his legs, rear & torso. I don’t think he’ll take his jacket off but if he does check out his arms, too.
Thanks,
Ben
How can you report on someones strength by observing them in a courtroom? And what does Dylan’s legs, rear & torso have to do with anything? Not to mention that a person’s physical appearance does change in a 3 year time span.
Exactly, TT.
What Dylan looks like today, has nothing to do with what he looked like or how strong he was the day Robert Wone was murdered.
So, please, Ben….move on.
When and how did “Ben” get a good look at Dylan’s rear, legs and torso without a jacket???
Ben, care to answer?
Perhaps Ben answered an ad that was placed on alt.com a few years back….Come on Ben, fess up…did you audition to be the third player in culuket’s game? Is Joe one of your married men?
Ben says: report back Dylan’s “fitness & strength level.” I laughed outloud at my desk when reading that.
Eds, why don’t you set up a small obstacle course and have Dylan run it when he comes out of the courtroom. Something akin to a dog agility course. Barrels, ramps, etc. – then you can give Ben a full rundown. Don’t bother with Joe. He’s a porky little bugger and might get stuck in the barrel.
I’d say have him fetch some balls but I forgot he prefers water sports.
CD, I’m imagining having some cones and jump ropes and finish lines set up,our Eds. in ref uniforms with stopwatches and whistles around their necks. But by all means, get him to take off his jacket.
My recollection from the snapshots and videos was that Victor might have been the only one to buy his suit in the regular men’s department – Dylan in the boys, and Joe in the pork store.
yes, Joe’s suit was stretched to maximum capacity. I would suggest passing out protective eyewear to the first row in case buttons pop.
As Ben sez, LOL!
As much as I would love to go I am unfortunately chained to my office desk on Friday. Or, I should say to a conference room. I have entertained the developing a sudden illness, though.
Unfortunately, I cannot go either: I got a promotion at work that ties me to a desk. So, I guess I’ll have to wait until the next hearing to assess Dylan’s musculature, Joe’s cynicism, and/or Victor’s stupidity. Three blind mice: craven!
Sorry to say I will not be there on Friday. Blessings to the editors for continuing to honor Robert. May we all get together after the three are convicted… In celebration of Robert, his wife, family and friends.
You are only seeing one page of the autopsy report, limited strictly to the toxicology tests performed.
We already know that he was not “suddenly and unexpectedly stabbed” because the wounds are totally inconsistent with such an attack. There’s no sign that Mr. Wone struggled – or even moved – when he was stabbed (the wounds would not be clean slices if he jumped or struggled). Rather, the wounds indicate that he did *not* move. So your theory is useless, and worse than that, its already been discussed (and rejected) a dozen times on this blog.
There is one fact that we are all aware of, one that we can verify from own experience. At no point did the killers try to find the “real killer.” They never plead for the “real killer” to turn himself in, never asked the public or even the community to share any information that might lead to the “real killer,” never worried about their own safety (what if the “real killer” meant to attack on of trio?). As I’ve said before, if they really believed there was a knife-wielding homicidal maniac with the ability to silently slip in and out of houses ala Michael Myers (not the funny one, the maniac one) on the loose, you’d think there’d be a bit of a stir, alarm, something, if only in the immediate neighborhood. Instead there was nothing, none, nada.
The morning after the murder, the three men were free. Nothing in their response indicates that they actually believed a scene out of Halloween had just taken place in real life, in their home, right under their noses.
No sloppy report or mishandled information can account for this fact. And the fact is that they never reacted as though they had had a visit from Michael Myers because they already knew full well what had really happened.
The only question is whether their guilt will be verified in the criminal and civil courts, or get away with murder.
Sorry – that should have been “from our *own* experience”; “attack *one* of the trio”; and “whether *they’ll* get away with murder.
At least my spelling is pretty good.
Bravo!
I wonder whether the trouple asked for police protection or hired private security for themselves in the days following the “intruder’s” actions. They must have feared for their lives, right?
Sometimes what you don’t do says a lot about what you did do. “Hmm, should we hire protection from this unknown killer who may be out to get us, or should we go have brunch at Cosi?”
“It’s looking more and more like Wone was suddenly & unexpectedly stabbed by someone known to him after masturbating.”
Care to explain how masturbating would result in semen in his rectum?
God, I hate when that happens….
Lyn,
I regret having to re-post this from “there will be blood” and I cleaned it up a little.
“…I am beginning to question the quality of the observations & conclusions of the examiner, including the semen observations, but regrettably we must go there.
Without an extra towel, Wone may have ejaculated into his hand & smeared it onto his rear knowing he was about to step into the shower.
1) The medical examiner’s swab may have pushed some inside. I favor this simple testing error as the answer. We know this examiner made mistakes.
2) Another possibility– if the test is valid, it is possible only trace amounts of his semen made it up there from his own ass-stimulation during masturbation with his own semen coated fingers. Several masturbation videos on XTube.com show this practice & I will provide search terms to locate them if you wish.
3) It could also be a cultural practice: “Taoists would use practices to stimulate/increase and conserve their bodily fluids to great extents… (including composting) The fluid that contained the most Jing was male semen. Therefore the Taoists believed that men should decrease the frequency or totally avoid ejaculation in order to conserve their life essence.*”
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoist_sexual_practices
4) Another more lurid suggestion is that Wone was violated after he was mortally wounded in the shower.”
Yeah, Ben, or you could go with the most logical and reasonable. Not your style, I realize, but most of us assume that if there is semen three inches up in one’s rectum that it wasn’t a self-directed exercise. You can Wikipedia all sorts of nonsense but it doesn’t make it logical or reasonable. He could have sat down on a projectile covered with his own semen that was unfortunate in placement and thus violated his anus and left semen in his rectum, but that doesn’t make it worth “exploring” given that it’s highly unlikely to occur (and, to boot, in the guest room of a ‘friend’ at 11:00 pm on a school night) when far more logical and reasonable reasons explain it. Your is about on par with the sitting-on-projectile theory, in my opinion.
One thing you’ll learn in life, Ben, is that when EACH time you posit a crazy theory, it makes the next crazy theory more recognizable as such. If you had any reasonable or logical posts in your history here, you might have some credibility.
Bea,
Masturbation is the most logical & reasonable. Women just don’t get it.
It’s more logical than some kind of fabricated electro-jaculation fantasy. Do you know how complicated that is? It’s silly.
Ben,
Men don’t get your point either.
David
Thanks, David, for having my back.
Ben, you’re wrong that I don’t “get” masturbation. I do. You’re correct that I, personally, am not a big fan of semen. So shall I assume that you often put your own semen three inches up your rectum? What do you like about it?
Do you enjoy your own semen in your ear canal or sinus cavities as well?
For me it’s not about enjoyment–it’s for the replenishment of Jing. 精
For others it’s very powerful & erotic.
Enough said. I’m going to leave it right there.
Another question unanswered. My guess is that the men here would likely answer “no” to the question “do you purposely put your own semen three inches up your own rectum?”. Think whatever you want, Ben, but if you’re trying to persuade folks that your position is valid, you’ll have to pony up with meaningful responses.
Unbelievable.
I am a man, and trust me I don’t get it either. I haven’t done a survey of men’s practices, but I’m quite confident that wiping stuff on your “rear” is not what guys do to dispose of it. Why not use a tissue, or toilet paper, or wash in the sink or in the shower?
Editors, as much as you welcome diverse views from posters, I’m in the camp of believing that these kinds of allegations from BenFranklin go too far over the line. They are absurd and they are a clear attempt to vilanize the victim, something we sadly see too often in crimes.
Ben, you’re sounding more like George III in one of his episodes of madness rather than like a philosophe of the Age of Reason. Accordingly, you may be in need of Dyl’s meds. But then again, given the quality of your posts since your return from Paris, the fugue state (that you describe as a side effect of those drugs) may be unduly familiar to you. Listen to a fugue by Bach or Handel, and you’ll be better in the morning!
Well said.
Ben, I think you are disgusting.
Ben Franklin says: “I also noticed the ME did not swab Wone’s hands for semen–an obvious test to determine if his semen was from masturbation rather than some elaborate inflicted electrical scenario.
It’s looking more and more like Wone was suddenly & unexpectedly stabbed by someone known to him after masturbating.”
If the ME didn’t swab, how can you be so certain?
I can say the complete opposite with just as much certainty if there is no evidence to refute it. “It’s looking more and more like Wone was suddenly & unexpectedly stabbed by someone known to him…..and raped.”
Again, your logic, isn’t logical.
CD,
For your reference-Wone’s hands do not appear to have been tested for semen. If his hands were included in the “and others”(areas) then his hands too tested positive for his own semen–making the case for masturbation by Wone & misconduct by the ME & MPD.
Affidavit in Support of An Arrest Warrant for Dylan Ward, page 7.
“Dr. Goslinoski also collected samples from the decedent using a standard sex–kit protocol. The following items, among others were collected from the body of Mr Wone: two swabs taken from the area of his thighs/external genitalia, two perianal, two anorectal, and two swabs taken from the mouth/lip area. The swabs were examined by an FBI analyst with the FBI”s DNA lab. Semen was detected on all swabs with the exception of the two swabs taken from the lip area. DNA test revealed there was no DNA foreign to Mr. Wone on any of the swabs. Accordingly, all semen found….was Mr Wone’s.”
Ben,
You misquoted….it is “the following items, AMONG others, were taken from the body of Mr. Wone:” Seems this wording refers to WHAT was collected, not WHERE things were collected.
But in any event, since his hands may not have been not tested, your theory that he masturbated doesn’t hold water, because there is no evidence that he masturbated (i.e, evidence of semen on his hands). Period.
But there IS evidence that he may have been sexually assaulted (i.e., semen in his rectum).
And it’s page 6, not 7. Sloppy work, Ben.
Such a bummer about the ketamine testing. You never know about the ketamine half life, etc., until you test, but it looks like they never will.
I’d bet my house that he was injected with ketamine.
What a damn shame.
After reading the information concerning the possible use of the drug Ketamine which was never tested for in the toxicology report, and its short life span in the body, I was wondering if a forensic scientist might be contacted to see if this type of drug somehow would have been captured in the bones of the body. It seems with the technology of today and the many forensic scientists throughout our country maybe there is a data pool for this type of question to be asked and the process for testing be realized.
Robert and his family were friends of ours, and our son Joseph attended Grammar and High School with him. We thank you for your updates and information as Robert’s murder goes unpunished for all those involved. I look forward to the day your email subject contains the word Guilty of Murder for all those involved.
Jim
Jim,
When I read comments from people like you and your son who knew Robert, well it literally takes my breath away at the pain you all have suffered.
What makes it worse is the indiginity endures because this crime has gone unpunished for a significant amount of time. It is because of people like Robert’s family and folks like you that we felt more needed to be done.
Thanks for keeping the faith.
David, co-ed.
David;
Thanks for your email support. Robert was a wonderful young man who one day I have no doubt would have been an asset to his Ancestry and his Country.
To take any human beings life is unacceptable, and for those responsible to walk free is also unacceptable.
Justice will be served. If there is anything I have learned in my 68 years on this earth is that GOOD will always defeat EVIL. The clock is ticking and there date with destiny is approaching.
May Robert Rest in Peace .
Jim
Thank you Jim – I seem to remember you telling us that you coached Robert in little league at the parrish school and that your son was on the team too.
There are some great pics of that little slugger on this video Doug put together a couple months ago.
I was wondering if his hair could be tested. I thought I’d read somewhere that a person’s hair contains a record of substances taken into the body but I don’t remember how long the record was said to last.
Good question, Curious.
From what we’ve learned in consultation with forensic professionals, a radioimmunoassay of hair follicles can be used to detect ketamine (with mixed results of false positives), but the window for conducting that test may be open a maximum of four to, some say, 7 days.
Either way, that window has shut.
-Doug, co-editor
So, David, his moniker “Culuket” will be the only useable evidence for ketamine use on Mr. Price’s part. Sigh!
Jeez, some of this stuff is going very far into the reaches of someone’s unsettled and obsessed mind; how on earth would a person observing another person be able to report on their “strength level” (whatever that is).
Seriously, how?
(I couldn’t care less why, so don’t offer to explain why, please.)
That’s stark, staring, bat-shit crazy.
I have had to discard the precocious child theory of Ben. Maybe these posts speak of some sort of brain impairment, maybe from long term drug abuse. Can poppers do that to a person? (paging former crackho – who, by the way, always sounds coherent and logical to me)
My question is why this on-going obsession with exonerating Joe Price and Joe Price only **important-note-to-Victor** at any cost to logic, truthfulness, interpretation of available evidence, credulity, sanity, respect for Robert himself, the safety of the society at large, the honor of the old school (remember Robert was an alumnus of W&M too) or to garden variety common sense ~ why?
I have come to accept that the trouple, collectively and individually, must have their supporters, and can even assume the generous thoughts of the very near and dear (like parents), but as the public face of trouple thinking why keep sending this clown to seed this blog? Why?
It’s bizarre.
To trot out a phrase that I have been forced to employ before:
Don’t even dream in your sleep of trying to tell me what “women” do and do not understand, about anything, anything at all on this earth and beyond. Are we clear on this?
For my part your harping on this far-fetched masturbating and somehow recycling one’s sperm in the deepest reaches of one’s own rectum thing; a very obscure, highly improbable and singularly unappetizing scenario is working my gag reflex.
With apologies to Terence I will declare that being human nothing human can be said to be alien to me (least of all various sex practices) but some can be said to be so unlikely as to strain credulity and this is one such instance. Fortunately no jury (smelly or otherwise) will contemplate this for two sustained seconds, it’s absurd.
Jing (by the way) is kidney essence, so you are basically talking pure lunatic bull-shit. If you are attempting to make yourself seem more (somehow) “Asian friendly” and Eastern spiritual with this nonsense then please desist. The results are just disturbing.
The good news is that for yet another day this is the best that the trouple team has to offer.
That’s right folks.
This is the best that they’ve got.
I’m having some cake and hoping that Jim and Robert’s other grieving friends can choke down their gag reflexes and see these posts for the encouraging indicators that that they are of Joe Price specifically and the trouple members severally desperately bungling, shadow boxing and reluctantly comprehending their losing position coupled with their increasingly hysterical realization that the time to pay the piper is drawing neigh.
Joe, ask not for whom the bell tolls … you won’t like the answer, but if you must ask please send someone more worthy of engaging with to do your asking for you it’s insulting to all concerned to have our level of discourse repeatedly dragged down to this infantile level.
AnnaZed, I love it! Especially, “Don’t even dream in your sleep of trying to tell me what “women” do and do not understand, about anything, anything at all on this earth and beyond.” You go Girl.
As always, AnnaZ, well said. I enjoy your posts immensely.
Re Jing, here’s the wikipedia link…..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jing_(TCM)
Again, it seems Ben is manipulating the meaning of something to suit his personal views.
All of your vacuous, vapid huffing & puffing is totally content-free when it comes to the topic at hand.
Bang your drum all you want that I am one of Price’s flunkies or with the defense. It’s simply not so. I think we have some incredibly incompetent case work that fouled the waters from day one of the investigation with possible intentional misconduct.
Without ketamine or GHB or other magical paralytics or restraints, there are basically three possibilities left:
1) Wone was a willing participant in some kind of complicated, long-planned sex scene.
2) Wone was wired up to inserted electrodes & milked for sperm & murdered in a thrill killing by up to three totally depraved homosexuals.
3) Wone masturbated alone & was later stabbed by one person &…
a–The ME made a mistake with a swab or got a false positive test result indicating internal semen.
or
b–the ME faked tests to “nail those guys”
So which is it?
I vote for 3a because 3b can’t be easily proved.
1 & 2 are insanely absurd– truly bat shit crazy.
If I am right we will hear no more of the rape or sexual assault allegations & the waters will begin to clear.
Ben, uh, you didn’t list the most likely among your categories. And you posed/worded the alternatives in a manner which (not surprisingly) attempts to bring the voter to your conclusion. I think 3a and 3b are complete figments of your imagination (you vote against 3b – the ME wanting to ‘nail those guys’ because it can’t easily be proved? what about no one having posed this except you? what about zero evidence of either?).
But I’ll do as you ask — but let’s make it fair, shall we, and offer Alternative 4:
Robert Wone was attacked by Ward/Price (possibly because he rebuffed one/both, and/or they were high) and shot him up with a paralytic. Because they are sick SOBs, they stimulated him to orgasm and furthered his humiliation – while alive and conscious and UNABLE to react – by inserting the wand into his anus and to his rectum. Ward/Price realized that Robert would press charges so they murdered him in cold blood by stabbing him three times in the chest and delayed calling 911 until they were sure he could not be saved.
I do not think Price nor Ward had plans to kill him before he arrived.
Price and Ward – in my speculation – acted together from the beginning. If Price had gone to bed and he left Ward/Robert Wone alone together, he would have said so. And Ward couldn’t have manhandled Robert Wone alone. The intentional stabbing death of Robert Wone and clean-up and cover-up is likely the mastermind of Price. That’s my opinion.
#4.
#4
Bea, I agree 100% with every word.
Bea,
No magical paralytic drugs! That’s the whole point of this topic & the toxicology report. Try again with no paralytics & I’ll take my fingers out of my ears. I’ll sincerely listen to a story without paralytics. But is there one?
Ben, you really want these guys to go free. You are so tickled that the tox tests aren’t boding well for the prosecution.
But that’s okay.
Robert Wone had 3 stab wounds. Explain THOSE away, Ben.
CD,
I’m horrified that the toxicology lab didn’t do the common sense tests–there will forever be a big K&? hanging over all the people involved.
We have no freestanding constitutional right not to be framed by our own government. So it’s our duty to make sure they do their jobs, especially when productive lives hang in the balance. It doesn’t look like they did their jobs.
I want justice & fairness for everyone.
Ben says: “We have no freestanding constitutional right not to be framed by our own government.”
You love to say that. And it’s getting really tedious to hear it over and over again.
Ben, those men are not being framed and you damn well know that. A serious crime was committed under their roof and THEY are the ones RESPONSIBLE for Robert’s death. Robert Wone walked into that house alive and was carried out in a body bag. There is no miscarriage of justice here. There is no framing. Framing is for the innocent. These men ARE NOT innocent of wrongdoing.
And you talk of all the errors made. We don’t know that. The only “errors” of record MAY be the way the reagent used at the crime scene may have been handled. Otherwise, it looks like the ME did things pretty much by the book. She took all the samples she was supposed to take. In fact, it seems the ME has done the minimal required. That errs in favor of the defendants, Ben. There’s a lot more the ME could have done, but didn’t. It would have been beneficial to the prosecution if she HAD done more.
And if you are going to talk about the errors made, tell us what they are. WHAT ERRORS, Ben?
I repeat that statement because it takes awhile for it to really sink in: our government CAN frame us.
The ME did not do good job! She did not sample enough blood or order the right tests. She did not test Wone’s hand for semen. She irresponsibly opined & suggested directly to the detectives “come to Jesus” theory. Her notes are not discoverable & her work cannot be independently verified or repeated. It’s done & done badly & we are all grappling with her mess & will be for months to come.
I believe there is wrongdoing on both sides. There is defendant responsibility here–but not necessarily the foul allegations in the affidavits.
Ben?????
What does it matter if Robert masturbated that night??? HE’S DEEEEAAADDDDDDDD.
Stop staring at the trees…..there is a whole f’ing forest you’re missing!
I too am tripping up on Ben’s words: “We have no freestanding constitutional right not to be framed by our own government.”
At first I wondered what that even meant. If a defendant is framed, a plethora of laws would be violated. As for “freestanding constitutional rights”, I assumed that you read the phrase somewhere and decided it sounded cool and wanted to use it sometime.
I was right! I see some recent WaPo article (and others) called “THERE IS NO Freestanding Constitutional ‘Right Not To Be Framed” about a brief filed by Iowa prosecutors hoping to persuade the Supreme Court to dismiss a lawsuit against them for allegedly fabricating evidence in 1977. The phrase was snatched from the prosecutors’ brief because of its outlandishness – and of course NO SUCH RULING has been made.
Ben, you’re shameless in addition to being more than a little annoying. I would hazard a guess that things like the 5th Amendment (you, know, the Bill of Rights) which explicitly states that one cannot be deprived of life or liberty without due process of law just might prohibit prosecutors from recklessly ruining lives by trumping up all sorts of false accusations.
It would be “against the law”, Ben, so please cite as “proof” a “catchy phrase” used in reference to a 30 year old Iowa case. And please don’t try to cut and paste this as “Proof!” that your boy Joe was “Framed!”.
Sadly, I had to have a little chuckle over this one – you need to mix it up a bit, Ben, as this is getting tiresome. I don’t know whether to tell you to get more sleep, tell Joe that it’s his turn to give Aunt Marcia a pedicure, or to step away from the crack pipe. Maybe try all three?
The point I’m making is the prosecutors DID frame the defendants all through the investigation & prosecution-out of bigotry & prejudice & malice. If I recall, the county paid tens of millions of dollars to settle the suit by the wrongfully prosecuted victims. The payoff is the only thing that kept if from going to the Supreme Court. Astonishing!
Price & Zaborsky may have the same kind of case & settlement coming to them from DC.
Ben, some months ago we discussed the fact that tox screens are a shot-in-the-dark as to which drugs to test for. The numerous needle marks were pre-mortum and not done by hospital/EMT personnel that night. The stab wounds were so perfect that it was clear Robert did not fight back or defend himself.
Ben, if we take your beloved Price out of the equation, and pretend for a minute that Ward killed Robert Wone alone, how do think it came to be that Robert allowed Ward to stab him three times? Conscious? Unconscious?
#4.
I have seen small drug parties suddenly turn weird. You’re laughing and suddenly you realize it’s not a joke. You need to talk fast to cool things down.
Nothing in Robert’s history (that we’ve seen) suggests he was accustomed to the extra dynamic drugs bring to such socializing. I’ve always subscribed to CDinDC’s theory about the rebuffed advances / long-term tension that may have ignited a psychic ammo dump on Swann Street. Her characterization of the bad chemistry there is brilliant.
We know there were no elves, Robert wasn’t robbed, he was a harmless guy; what’s the motive? Repeat, what’s the motive?
Incredible that the rape scenario should be dismissed so blithely.
Today’s essay question is to come up with scenario without magical paralytics. There are none!
Why did Robert allow himself to be stabbed three times in the chest without defending himself? If it wasn’t paralytics, what immobilized him? If you’re saying he was comatose and presumed dead, what put him in that state?
Maybe he swallowed some of Dylan’s Lexapro and went into a different, sleepier, kind of fugue state?
Maybe he fell asleep SO deeply that when Ward/Price stabbed him the first time he didn’t even wake up!
Since your boys are “street-drug-free” (as of yesterday), what DID cause Robert to lose consciousness?
You’ve ruled out intruders. I think all that is left is that the POLICE secretly drugged Robert at the CLE lecture . . . but how did they KNOW that Dylan was in a mad, knife-wielding fugue state?
Exactly, Bea.
If Robert was comatose, what caused him to become comatose?
If he wasn’t comatose, why didn’t he defend himself when being stabbed.
Ben suggested that perhaps Robert was already dead when stabbed. Well, if so, how did he die?
Ben, we could go around in circles here. It’s like Ouroboros…your conclusions take us right back to the beginning. It’s futile for you to suggest Robert was not drugged.
Sudden, rapid & unexpected stabbing with a very sharp knife by a person known to & trusted by him, namely Ward.
And if that’s right, Joe and Victor helped him tidy up. I don’t recall Joe OR Victor saying “my dear friend, Dylan, made a terrible mistake while under the influence of drugs.”
Do you Ben?
So, if Joe and Victor helped conceal Dylan’s crime, they are guilty of C-O-N-S-P-I-R-A-C-Y.
Guilty, guilty, guilty.
We can agree with every one of your theories and they are STILL guilty of the crimes they have been charged with.
And they should be PUNISHED for those crimes.
I think we’re ready for some new information. We’re beginning to cover territory we’ve covered before. Can’t wait for the new motions.
The new motions will be posted by about 9:00pm ET.
Two are rather short and routine; the defense response to dismiss motions is lengthy and mired in case law and precedent.
Put on a pot of coffee.
You coward.
You know you’re back is against a wall.
Come on, Ben. Argue your way out of all of this.
How did Robert die?
If Robert was dead and unable to defend himself when stabbed, how did he die?
Would Joe and Victor be completely innocent of wrong doing even if Dylan did the killing?
Come on, Ben. We’re all ears. What other of your theory are you going to flip on?
Good one, Ben, about covering all the territory (feeling his way backwards into a corner, Ben screams “over there!”).
Yeah, three slit-like stab wounds (no tearing) in which the victim did not have a defensive reflex and for which he remained perfectly still.
If my own mother manages to stab me once – perfectly – I can guarantee you she’s not getting a second crack at me. She and I are about the same size, like Dylan and Robert were.
Maybe if it were a Joe-sized person, he’d have better luck, but the “remaining completely still” part DURING a stabbing just doesn’t sit right.
Maybe Robert was just so polite that he was holding his breath in expectation of a very big apology from Joe? Probably thought he’d get it before the second stab wound, but surely after the third.
Do think about talking to someone, Ben.
Ehrrm…a little lost here…are you saying that “magical paralytics” don’t exist? That’s kind of what “magical” means, correct?
Or are you declaring that no paralytics were present in Robert’s body? As has been made clear here many times, there are many drugs his body was not tested for, paralytics included. You don’t know any better than the rest of us what was in there.
Your total dismissal of possibilities that have not been disproved only shows that you are not interested in a rational discussion.
But by all means keep posting; love the fireworks.
Ben,
Even if we play it your way. In your scenario….no drugs. Robert a willing participant in sex gone bad. In your scenario, IT…. STILL…WENT…BAD. Robert died.
We may never know the exact events of that night, but the defendants are legally responsible for his death and are not being truthful and forthcoming about the circumstances of that death. Not to mention, they went to great lengths to conceal their involvement in his death. The defendants in the VERY LEAST are guilty of the charges they have been indicted for.
Just remember, Ben, a good cause, a good effect; a bad cause, a bad effect. Don’t forget about karma. Your’s isn’t looking so good right now.
I don’t believe Wone was a willing participant. I believe we are seeing bad ME work, tailored to fit the detectives “come to Jesus” hunch.
Oh. My. God. I can’t believe you just flipped on your on theory.
If Robert wasn’t “a willing participant,” that means he was unwillingly brought into a sexual scenario.
First, what happened to the masturbation scenario??????
In any event, the police were correct in their “come to Jesus” assumptions, if Robert was not a willing participant.
Not a flip. Wone masturbated alone in his room before Ward stabbed him in the bathroom while he was washing up and putting in his mouthguard. It was sudden & unexpected stabbing, perhaps after a stern rebuff. No sexual assault. Bad ME work. Done.
Ben,
Your fantasies about what happened to Robert have gotten downright boring. I’d suggest to all the sane and serious poster here that we let Ben babble on, if he wishes, but let’s stop encouraging with our responses and challenges to his illogical rantings . We’ll all sleep better if we disengage from him.
There you go again….you went back to the masturbation theory, while two postings above you said Robert wasn’t a willing participant.
As SKS says we should “disengage.” You obviously can’t focus enough to present a logical defense.
Why wouldn’t he have just masturbated in the bathroom? In the shower. Ridiculous theory. Done.
He was bled to near death.
Bea –
Reading old posts – I think your description is exactly what happened. I would also add that I believe the key events started at 6:30 p.m. or earlier – as Sarah knew it was time to leave and then Victor unexpectedly arrived home early.
It started in Dylan’s room with possibly Joe and possibly one more person ‘exercising’. They have to take a break – for showers – because Victor was coming home early. Dylan tells Victor that Joe is at the gym to give them more clean up time – as Victor didn’t see Joe at the gym. Returning home quickly – Victor finds Joe and Dylan freshly showered.
Together they attempt to make dinner as a group – burning steaks in the meantime – a clear indication there was some type of disruptor in the midst – drugs, alcohol or an emotional disturbance.
Robert Wone unfortunately arrives to a drugged up house with at least Price and Ward high on something; wired from earlier activities and frustrated that they were interrupted by Victor coming home early. Drugged, wired, frustrated – a perfect storm to attack an innocent person.
Since all of the ‘play’ equipment may have been out … all they needed to do was drug Wone’s water and start again.
If it was Ketamine – this one website (see below) says, “in 10-20 minutes you may find yourself hardly able to move.” Following this time line – Wone arrives at 10:30 p.m. and is served a glass of water with K. By 10:40 p.m. or 10:50 p.m. Wone is already upstairs being shown his room and shower and by then the drugs effects kick in. Additional K is administered to Wone by needles to keep him out.
Price and Ward possibly assault Wone and take photographs all on the playmat. However, as a result of a large dose of Ketamine – this site is saying – there is a ‘decreased respiration’ and the effects wear off between 45 minutes to 90 minutes. If that was the case with Wone – between 10:45 p.m and 11:30 p.m. he would have been effectively drugged.
However, with the assault and low respiration – perhaps Price and Ward felt he overdosed and died. Stabbing him and drain him of all of his blood … so no one would be able to say that Wone was drugged and assaulted. Not that this makes sense – but if someone was high – in their heads the evidence of the crime is in the blood – and they need to get rid of the blood. Stabbing was supposed to be the decoy – not realizing that the stabbing was the cause of death.
I do believe only one person stabbed Wone and most likely Price. It was at this time that Wone unconsciously gasped – probably just like Price described – as he was dying.
Victor – realizes something is wrong – goes downstairs and sees the blood and more. And the coverup begins between all three men. And, they certainly do not call 911 until they know there is no more breath in Robert Wone.
It would be possible in 20-30 minutes between the three of them to roll up the playmat with the knife, cameras, towels, their clothes, etc. and possibly store it in Sarah’s apartment until they can get rid of it or … have Michael come by and remove it. Take showers one more time that night – one on the patio, one in the upstairs bathroom and the other in the master bath and be ready to call 911 at 11:49. Whomever took the shower on the patio … picked up the extra kitchen knife to stage the scene.
It wasn’t until later – that Price, Ward confirmed that Wone was dead and they realized that Wone died of the stab wounds – not the drug overdose as they originally thought.
If Sarah is a tenant as Price emphasized and not a family member as Sarah considered herself … wouldn’t the police need a separate search warrant to search her apartment. Does anyone know the answer to this question?
Plus – with Price’s call to Sarah in the morning saying “Don’t go home!” … instead meet at the police station … someone had time to remove the playmat.
Reading this Ketamine page – was eerie and brought a little bit of sense to this whole story. This is where more alert police work would be helpful. If it is obvious the stab wounds are so precise and their are no defensive wounds … testing for K should be a priority.
Here is the page- http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/ketamine/effects.htm
In theory, right on Agatha. While many details will probably remain forever unknown (how, what, or when drugged, willing or unwilling or somewhere in-between) I do believe this is a case of something going wrong and the cover-up was a ‘staged’ murder that would most likely be classified as “criminally negligent manslaughter” (however I am no lawyer). I cannot imagine his death was premeditated – the trail left behind would just be too difficult to cover up (the visit was planned, his wife packed a bag, records of emails and phone calls and the possibility of a taxi cab record). Plus, no motive. I imagine Price/Ward would have left Victor in the dark but as you indicate, he likely stumbled onto something and was drawn into the conspiracy. Michael Price’s involvement is a red herring . . . if Ward was afraid to enter the house after the subsequent burglary, I doubt he would have condoned including him in any of his ‘play’ activity. The delay in reporting that burglary just seems to be further evidence of Joe Price supporting his brother’s bad habits – no mystery there.
As others, I am hopeful that someone (Victor?) will step up to the plate before the defense rests and closing arguments are made. We have those to wade through plus the (self)instructions to the judge (which I believe will be reviewed by both sides prior to being delivered). I also imagine a verdict will be delivered fairly soon as it seems the judge has been weighing the evidence as it has been presented. Maybe Friday? That would make a nice weekend for somebody . . . my guess, conspiracy and obstruction for all three with the possibility of tampering by Joe.
And of course, this is not over. We have the civil suit to sit through. That will proceed regardless of the verdict (they were smart to buy real estate in Florida). It also seems that a lot more evidence could be introduced in that case since the burden of proof is lower (but see disclaimer above).
I just stumbled across this site yesterday and have been completely engrossed, reading posts and comments for hours. This is such great work and I sincerely hope there will be some closure for the Wone family.
I lost track of this case because it has been so long since the attack occurred but this site is now firmly entrenched in my RSS reader.
I had a professional relationship with Robert as I am in real estate and we worked for a mutual client. I spoke with him often just weeks before he passed away. He was one of the most responsible and easiest attorneys I had ever worked with.
Thanks again for all your hard work on this site. I look forward to following along as the case finally goes to trial.
Ra1n,
Welcome aboard. What makes this site a special place are people like yourself, who knew Robert, so you can bring an added touch of personalization when our discussions can get mired in details.
We’re glad to have you.
David, co-ed
I 100% that Joe has people working for him on the inside. Everyone was paid off to mess up the entire case so that reasonable doubt could happen. Joe was a really powerful dude and he knew how to cash in on “IOUs”.
Really? You think that? How odd.
Joe does seem to have an ability to project himself as being more powerful than he actually is, but powerful enough to murder a friend of the current Attorney General of the United States and have various people in various branches of law enforcement cover for him? I think not. Just as I equally think that no conspiracy of law enforcement homophobes exists to rail-road the trouple I seriously doubt this scenario.
Sadly, I think that there have just been a bunch of mistakes made, and I fervently hope that they don’t prevent the truth from ever coming to light.
hoppinmad, why do you think Joe was powerful?
From my point of view he was a typical attorney. Successful in the fact that he was smart enough to secure a job with a good firm and stayed long enough and managed to work enough hours to make partner. He did some pro bono work, just like many attorneys.
I don’t see the power there.
I agree with AZ that the idea of Joe collaborating with a pro-gay, velvet syndicate within DC law enforcement is pure poppycock.
I disagree with CD, though, in that Joe was/is more powerful than most criminal defendants because he was, as he boasted to Folts, a white-collar defense attorney. Knowing the law made him more powerful (and made him seem more powerful to himself) in the opening stages of this tragedy, but, as Bea has pointed out, only fools serve as their own counsel. So, a seeming defense asset is an ultimate Achilles’ heel: just keep yammering away, underwear guy!!
Clio says: “I disagree with CD, though, in that Joe was/is more powerful than most criminal defendants because he was, as he boasted to Folts, a white-collar defense attorney.”
I see your point, Clio. Knowing SOME ins and outs of the criminal system may have given him some insight on how to manipulate the crime to his advantage.
I do, however, want to point out that Joe’s resume regarding criminal work is scanty at best. He was mainly an IP attorney. Civil litigation is whole other planet from criminal law. From my research into his cases, I’ve come up with little to nothing regarding criminal proceedings, except for a conspiracy/exportation case in which he defended Allied Telesis.
Perhaps he knew a little about defense of conspiracy cases, but we’re talking murder here. Joe has never tried a murder case. This is virgin territory for Joe. And, there is a pretty big learning curve for new territory.
Knowledgeable, yes. Powerful? Not so much.
I might add that I understand that this isn’t a murder trial, but the components of this case and tightly woven with a murder. The handling of this case is the same as a murder trial (i.e., collection of evidence, forensics, ME, etc.)
I agree with all who said Joe was not powerful. Typical attorney? Absolutely. He knew enough about how the legal system works to behave the way he has while remaining smug. A typical smug attorney.