Who is Dylan Ward?
Of the three Swann Street defendants, Dylan Ward remains the most enigmatic. Gaining insight about this man often feels like an expedition where there is no treasure. The fact that so little is known about the fair-haired Puck from Tacoma seems to be negative evidence itself though, just like Robert’s negative blood results seem to demonstrate more was going on despite the lack of available proof.
Dylan Ward
The best glimpse into Dylan comes from his motion for pre-trial release. Here, for the first time, his resume is laid out in chronological detail. It shows an intellectual curiosity and accomplishment yet also reveals a pinball career, careening from one discipline to the next with no firm foundation in any one area. In terms of work, it sure looks like he had no place to call home.
We learn that he is the oldest of five children, and the son of Needham Ward, a “well-known cardiologist,” in Tacoma, Washington. Accomplishment seems to be important to Needham Ward, as he lists in his medical biography that he is the “father of five children; four have graduated from college.”
The motion for pretrial release notes that Dylan is close to his family. So close that his mother and father, Needham and Diane Ward, attended a birthday party in their honor in June 2006 in same home where Robert Wone was murdered less than two months later.
Not only is education important to the eldest Ward child, but only the finest institutions would do. A summa cum laude graduate from the Georgetown School of Foreign Service, to the most prominent culinary institution in the United States, the Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park, New York, to Simmons College, a tony Boston liberal arts institution which was the first to offer a masters degree in children’s literature. It seems he never gave a second thought to being second-rate.
While all of his accomplishments demonstrated a strong, though not necessarily directed will, his personality seems to stand in contrast. Time and again, Dylan has been referred to as “never taking the lead in conversation,” or “meek” and “quiet.” Many people even had a difficult time remembering if they meet him. One person was surprised that he had sat next to Dylan throughout an entire dinner party and never remembered who it was until he was reminded. Others say the same thing, that he “blended in” and “never stood out.”
Associates have noted that if Dylan was going to take the lead in a project, it was never through alpha-male direction, but rather by offering a suggestion that would persuade people to his point of view.
This invisible streak was never more evident than on the night of Robert’s murder. The police notes from the evening describe traits associated with Joe Price as “wanting to do all the talking” and Victor Zaborsky, “crying hysterically.” But, Dylan was only mentioned as part of the group of three men with no individual characteristic ascribed to him.
His invisibility was firmly in place during the early media reports after the murder in August 2006, referring to him not by name but rather as the roommate, and in broadcast reports when photos of Joe and Victor were displayed, there were none of Dylan.
If his personality never seemed to catch people’s attention, his looks were another story. Paul Duggan, who wrote the two piece Washington Post article about the murder described Dylan, “5-foot-8, wiry with piercing brown eyes.” Friends who knew him after he moved back to Washington, DC say he looked “20 years younger” than he was. In unpublished photos, he has the expression of Ariel, the ethereal androgynous spirit from Shakespeare’s final play, The Tempest, or maybe the more devious Puck from A Midsummer Night’s Dream. Either way, Dylan Ward’s look was not easy to miss, even if his personality tended to blend in with those around him.
Of course, the most telling information comes directly from the original affidavit, the one the defense claims is filled with “speculation and innuendo.” That being said, it still doesn’t remove the fact that a large trove of adult sex toys was found in his small room on the second floor of the Swann Street residence, including an electro-stimulator as well as several books on how to administer pain and torture for the purposes of sexual gratification with several passages highlighted.
In a life that seems to speak so softly and so quietly, these items startle.
And now the peers of this man behind brown eyes have been called to answer if he has been “fated to telling only lies.”
-posted by David
This article reinforces my beliefs that Dylan didn’t have it in him to orchestrate a sexual assault, murder and coverup. He was a lamb led by a wolf. I believe with all my heart that Joe Price became angry at Robert after having been rebuffed (possibly for group sex with Dylan). Joe may have pondered a sexual encounter with Robert all week, since the overnight stay plans were put into motion prior to that night (and the fact that Joe didn’t share these plans with Victor probably meant he had ulterior motives). Joe, alpha-male he is, became enraged. His plans were shattered. His dominant sexual status and pride had been injured in front of Dylan. (Yes, Dylan was the dom but that means squat in this situation…Joe most likely topped from the bottom.) Dylan was Joe’s tool. Do this, do that. In this instance, Joe probably directed Dylan to assist in orchestrating a cover-up.
CDINDC Given that more or less, this is the theory that I first set forth shortly after the killing, I cannot help but agree in general.
I’m trying to recall all that we “know” and separate it from speculation in trying to conjure a picture of Dylan Ward, in keeping with the quest of this post. There has been unsubstantiated claims that he ‘liked’ Asian men, but no verifications – outside of Joe Price, has anyone noted ANY relationships that Dylan’s had? We’ve had the Frenchman for Joe, and Victor’s college boyfriend “confirmed” but has anyone heard/known/seen Dylan with any boyfriend (or hook-up, for that matter) other than Joe?
I ask partly out of sensational curiosity and partly to try to ferret out ‘who’ he is. It seems telling that of the folks who’ve posted knowledge about the trio (Victor is viewed as the dependable, kind one; Joe the blowhard) nothing really telling about Dylan’s character has emerged. Someone said he was good at his fund-raising job (which Joe got for him). That he was well-mannered.
I am a lesbian and this may color my opinion, but I don’t see Dylan as ‘all that’ in the looks department. I’m sure he was boyishly cute as a young man and that the boyishness (size, dress, manner) remained longer than usual, but he’s not really handsome and not really pretty. Sure, he must’ve seemed a ‘get’ for Joe – the pedigree of the doctor’s son, the right school, a socialite, if you will. Victor had some markings of that, but from University of Tulsa, and Joe had already ‘landed’ him long before and Victor wasn’t going anywhere.
So what about Joe (and husband) felt good and right to Dylan? Dylan enjoyed his wayward intellectual pose, I suppose, and Joe was likely quick to say that he was ‘too good’ to do a regular job – go learn the fine cooking arts, how to write and sell children’s books. Massage skills seem a bit blue-collar and less ethereal, but hey, he got to travel to exotic places to learn them – didn’t sign up for local classes at the Y.
My instinct, and it’s nothing more, is that Dylan liked the life of leisure, fancied himself a bit above the rank and file. When Daddy suggested (when Dylan was in his late twenties/early thirties?) it was time to pull his own weight, Dylan tried to find someone else to support him, both financially and emotionally – why else be someone’s in-home mistress?
I suspect that the sex toys and the unrulier of appetites came WITH Joe, not necessarily before. As with diplomacy studies, culinary studies, book publishing studies, and massage studies, he fancied himself someone who ‘loved to learn’. He can’t have been stupid and graduated summa from Georgetown, and he likely had a sense of social standing from his physician-led family life of childhood. How did he not feel like, well, just a whore? I think it was the way Joe played him – you’re too good, too smart, too interesting. Sure, I (Joe) have a fab career, and Victor, well, he’s done quite well considering, but you, Dylan, need to be pampered. . .
Anyone out there who knows anything of Dylan’s past care to point out where I’ve gone wrong in my suppositions? I’d love to hear anything at all about the mercurial man from Tacoma.
Must admit that I have no personal knowledge of Dylan so the most I have to offer is speculation in that regard.
BDSM friends confirm my suspicion that not all role playing dominants feel like “whores” for satisfying the demands of role playing submissives.
But there is something I do know a lot about: Gay Asian men. The reason: I have always been a “Rice Queen” and have been active with the Gay Asian community for more than 25 years. Save one, all of my boyfriends have been Asian.
For whatever it’s worth and that may not be much, I have also studied the history and sociology of Gay Asian Men (GAM).
Asians are generally stereotyped as being shy and quiet & GAM frequently describe themselves as such both in person and on line. Straight Asian women and GAM have both been characterized as being passive and submissive “exotics.”
GAM are also perceived as being more effeminate then are other ethnic group Gays which is related in part to fact that they have less testosterone. There is both research and anecdotal evidence to suggest that percentage of “bottoms” is greater among GAM where foreigners (read Caucasians) are present than in other Gay ethnic groups.
For a combination of reasons, there is not as much endogamous dating among GAM as their is within other Gay ethnic groups. Thus, the term
“sticky rice” refers to GAM who date other GAM. There is no comparable term for other groups.
All of the above, would feed into any wish Joe
“the mentor” may have had to conquer his more accomplished “protege.”
Only evidence of which I am aware about Dylan’s interest in Asian men has to do with his being raised in Japan, teaching English in Taiwan and studying massage in Thailand (is that correct).
Now, there are at least three possibilities: 1) Dylan remained celibate while in those countries; 2) Dylan only had liaisons with ex-pat or visiting Caucasions; 3) he had a pre-existing attraction to or a newfound one for Asian men. Personally, I think the lattermost is most likely though I cannot say that I have any proof to that effect.
If it be true that the role playing submissive, Joe, wanted to “make it” with his real or perceived submissive Straight Asian friend, Robert, and his role playing dominant Dylan also had “a thing” for Asians, it would be a ready made situation.
The theory which I first stated to an inquiring reporter and a Gay Asian friend within a week after the killing and propounded on this blog shortly thereafter is this: 1) Joe had unrequited love for Robert ever since Joe was Robert’s mentor in college; 2) Joe had previously confided his feelings for Robert at least to his playmate, Dylan if not to his lover, Victor; 2) Joe “came on” to Robert” in the kitchen and was rebuffed; 3) Robert politely declined and prepared for bed; 4) Joe felt hurt and powerless; 5) Joe and Dylan went to Plan B which I have outlined below.
Plan A. Joe gets from Robert a “yes.” His unrequited love satisfied, Joe is willing to take what he can get — even if it means no BDSM.
Plan B. Joe gets from Robert a “no.” His unrequited love unsatisfied, Joe takes whatever he wants — including BDSM.
In this role play: submissive Joe has his dominant Dylan “procure” that which is an “exotic” to Dylan for Joe that which is a protege for him.
Joe administers a date rape drug to to Robert in the kitchen. Perhaps he was planning to do this in under either Plan A or Plan B. I don’t know.
With or without Joe’s specific direction, Dylan administers a paralytic in the bedroom once the BDSM nonconsensual sexual “game is afoot.”
The truly submissive but role playing dominant Dylan ties restraints on the unconscious, powerless Robert before employing various BDSM devices and toys for the pleasure of the truly dominant but role playing submissive Joe.
As also before stated, I think one of two things happened: 1) Joe and Dylan thought that Robert was alive when he was dead; or 2) Joe and Dylan thought Robert was dead when he was alive.
Had Robert actually been alive, awakened to and been aware of the fact that he had been sexually assaulted, Joe and Dylan would have reasonably feared that Robert would accuse them of rape.
Had Robert actually been dead when Joe and Dylan expected Robert to awaken without any memory of the assault, Joe and Dylan would have reasonably anticipated that law enforcement
authorities would accuse them of some crime resulting — unintentionally in all probability — in the death of another person, namely Robert.
In either case, I believe that panic would have ensued for both Joe and Dylan though Joe’s cool head would ultimately have prevailed while Dylan was “out of it” or whatever.
How about Victor? Now we get to the issue of “open relationships.” Let me be clear, I am not making any judgments here. I don’t care what people do so long as they don’t hurt one another. Which is not the case in this case.
It has been my life experience that within any relationship — especially where there is intimacy
— one party always loves the other at least a little bit more than the other party loves the one.
Consequently, the one who loves more is likely to compromise more for the one who loves less than the other way around.
What is the import of this? It means that when the one who loves less proposes to the one who loves more that the one who loves less wants an open relationship, the one who loves more knows that he is not being so much asked as told that either you the one who loves more accepts me the one who loves less having somebody else “on the side,” or I the one who loves less am “out of here,” thereby leaving alone you the one who loves more.
Now, the one who loves less knows that in all likelihood the one who loves more will acquiesce in this kind of “arrangement” which is precisely why the ones who love less do not fear doing these sorts of things to the ones who love less.
This is more or less what I think happened in this “spousal” relationship between the one who loves less, Joe, & the one who loves more, Victor.
The adoring Victor loved the narcissistic Joseph
so much that Victor would pretty much put up with anything that Joe “dished out” (so to speak). Thus, Victor reluctantly tolerated Joe’s relationship with Dylan whom I suspect Victor either envied or resented or some facsimile.
But it doesn’t really matter. Because if and when the older, emotionally needy, low self-esteem
“wifey” Victor ever saw that his younger, “foot loose and fancy free” narcissistic “hubbie,” Joe, was in trouble, Victor would do anything to protect the “man She loved” (at least until now).
My guess is that on the night in question, Victor was doing what he usually did on such occasions.
He was either uncomfortably listening to or heartbreakingly imagining what was going on downstairs between Joe and Dylan. At this point, I don’t think he was aware of Robert’s position.
When Dylan “panicked” and Joe’s cooler “head” prevailed, Joe called Victor downstairs. Victor asked: “Where’s the milk”? Joe answered: “it’s time for you to get into your PR mode and say and do exactly what I ‘the boss’ tell you to.”
I APOLOGIZE FOR THE LONG COMMENT.
This rings of Robert Speigel!
Interesting post, Bea.
Going along with your “you’re too good, too smart, too interesting” line of thinking, that is precisely how some controlling people dupe their partners into staying around. They tap into their partner’s insecurities….boost them up….then use them for their own purposes. In this case, Joe used Dylan for sex.
However, I’m leaning toward extreme insecurities that caused Dylan to live his life as he does. Quiet, meek boy influenced and coddled by a more dominent personality. Always looking for his “niche” in life. Bouncing around. Joe gave him something he was looking for. Reason d’etre.
I think that house was filled with several extreme personality issues. It’s was like gasoline and alcohol lived with one match. That match ignited the night of Robert’s murder and their whole world went up in flames.
CD, I think the ‘combustible’ part of Dylan – and I agree that he needed Joe to set it off – was of the Andrew Cunanan ilk (though far less strong-willed): I’m just too good to be living an ordinary life. After lots of drugs, and continuous propping up by Joe, Dylan was able to do with Joe what (I believe) was a horrific act instigated by Joe. Dylan was too meek to ‘go’ Andrew Cunanan alone, but Joe seemed always to be seeking the next adventure. Was Victor’s unwillingness to break boundaries what led Joe to Dylan? Did he see in Dylan someone infinitely malleable, the Leopold to his Loeb?
I agree that what happened that night was both likely and unlikely to happen, that Joe-n-Dylan might have gone further and further into their play without having killed a man, but something (Robert’s indifference, perhaps?) set them off. Some set of circumstances made two otherwise (relatively) law abiding men do something they may never imagined themselves ACTUALLY doing – I know some here think they may have done it before. I think if they’d planned to murder someone, Robert would NOT have been a good target, logic and logistically speaking. Despite being a possible time bomb, the duo moved to action THAT night, not other nights, and the right mix of drugs and ego and hubris turned on them and they turned on Robert Wone. Or so I think.
I agree that Dylan, alone, was not someone destined to be a murderer. Perhaps Joe wasn’t either, though I believe he lived closer to that edge, was able to control most of his deviant instincts, or rather curb them. It may sound ridiculous, but I suspect something as small as Robert kidding Joe in front of Dylan may have been the last straw.
Why on Earth the person(s) less responsible don’t come clean will forever blow my mind. Blood brothers, I suppose, living on the goodwill of the widowed aunt and the check-writing cardiologist, can subsist on such a life. Sad and pathetic.
Did Dylan always live in Tacoma while growing up? I had thought that the Wards frequently moved with Needham’s career. The Zaborskys also moved when Victor was young, and so did the Prices when Culuket and Michael were developing. So, no member of the trouple is really not “from” anywhere, and polyglot DC/northern Virginia became their home by default? Is that why the Tacoma newspaper has not apparently covered the case?
Dylan gets those piercing brown eyes from Needham, who, I am sure, is not pleased at all with the current situation. Dr. Ward apparently loves historical biographies, and one can hope that he can escape into other worlds and times in order to draw relevant lessons to relay to his prodigal son.
Clio, I think that once Needham left med school/residency, the Wards lived for the most part in the Seattle-Tacoma area, though likely moved “up” to better neighborhoods as Needham’s career flourished. The Zaborsky clan was stable, though a couple of moves for the father’s career, Oklahoma (toney suburb of Tulsa) and Pennsylvania, and Uncle Oskar (Aunt Marcia’s hubby) was a renowned scientist who lived in Hawaii and No. VA, so my guess is the entire clan was relatively settled financially and otherwise.
Joe is the odd man out in this – born to very young parents, raised by either after the divorce and through remarriages, crossing the globe as a military brat. Some have implied that his was a difficult childhood, and that Joe alone was the prodigal son able to rise above and get into good schools (I’ve never found anything on the youngest of the three brothers of the first union – too common a name). But I know many ‘first marriage’ children get knocked around a bit and emerge relatively unscathed – don’t like the notion that this was a sufficient “reason” for his behavior (as I expect you don’t mean to imply).
Thanks, Bea. I am still intrigued by the paradox of the seemingly rootless, cosmopolitan, and chameleonlike trouple with their devoted, hard-working parents. Their parents do seem close to each one of them, but were each of them close to their parents?
Also, Dyl’s youngest brother Mac played at least one sport at St. John’s and played it well, according to online sources. Can you imagine Dyl playing any sport? I cannot, but, then again, I’m not an athlete either.
Clio, I agree with your assessment of the paradox – and don’t forget that Joe himself during interrogation on the fateful night said that he knew Victor and Dylan “better than” his “own mother”. Odd choice.
True, Bea, and even odder still:
Joe’s mentioning to Folts on the ride to Anacostia about his military parents. Remember too that Joe got into William and Mary and its portals to privilege via the strength of his essay on how his mom (step-mom?) wore combat boots. It is striking that, at key points in his life, Culuket boasts about his parents, despite intimations of having “a difficult childhood.”
And, boasting about his mother in combat boots could have been an early endorsement by Joe of “topping from the bottom.”
CLIO Ward Senior may just get to read another historical biography of or not of his own making.
Or, Needham and Di could write and self-publish an unauthorized biography of their prodigal son, placing him into his appropriate historical contexts. Their co-authored work could be entitled: Sonnie Dearest, or Dyl Does DC.
The Paul Duggan article adds this about Dylan Ward:
“Incredibly smart and truly engaging,” one professor in Boston said of him. Yet “not really career-minded,” Ward has said of himself, according to acquaintances. ” He’s also purported to be a “persuasive writer.”
Apparently that “truly engaging” side only comes out with his friends, or perhaps in his writing.
Penelope says: “…side only comes out with his friends, or perhaps in his writing.”
Shyness will do that. Speaking from wall flower experience….I always ran with a more “vibrant” personality. That way I didn’t fade into the furniture. That didn’t mean that would engage people though.
It was only my closest friends with whom I shared my true personality.
As fundraiser, Dyl’s letters and efforts were persuasive. Dyl and Joe, despite the unethical ramifications of a board member/president sleeping with an employee, were effective at Equality Virginia as fundraisers. The first Commonwealth dinners for EV, although laden with windy speeches and rubber chickens, were especially well-done and unprecedented. The enthusiasm for gay rights in Virginia was never seen before or since, and our dynamic duo contributed to that hope and vision, as hard as that is to believe today.
But suddenly that spring and summer of 2006, Dyl took another job, this time in marketing, and Joe and Victor formalized their union. Could Joe’s possible attack on Robert have given Dyl the chance to seal Joe’s need for him, before that “love” slipped away completely? Is that why he eagerly or blindly followed Joe’s instructions that evening?
Could that same possible attack have given Victor the ammo to keep their union going, with or without Dyl? Was Victor’s saying that Joe and he were trying to make Dyl part of their family already a vestige of the recent past by August 2006?
CLIO It’s always seemed to me that Dylan needed Joe more than the other way around. If my memory serves me well, Joe got Dylan most of his “jobs.”
There’s no reason to think that Joe could not find another submissive role playing dominant. BDSMers do it all the time. Granted there may be role playing submissives who fear that they cannot replace their role playing dominants.
But given Joe’s narcissism, I would find it hard to believe that he thought himself to be such a one.
In any case, I do not think that what you characterize as Joe’s “attack” on Robert came as any surprise to Dylan. I believe that Dylan had advance notice of Joe’s unrequited love for Robert as well as Joe’s designs for that evening which Dylan was aware might require his assist to effect.
I do not think that Victor ever wanted to make Dylan a part of the family. I suspect that his after-the-fact statement may have had more to do with maintaining “family” harmony in view of the portending criminal charges.
Given Victor’s ownership stake in the house, it does not appear that he ever used used that leverage to oust Dylan. I suspect that this goes back to Victor being the one who loved more the Joe who loved the Victor less.
While Dylan was a desired but replaceable diversion for Joe, Dylan was an undesired but damnable intrusion for Victor. But what could Victor do? He did not want to lose Joe? So as undesirables go, I suspect that Victor preferred the Dylan devil he knew to the whomever devil he didn’t.
Furthermore,
Victor as well as Joe provided Dylan a place to live.
Another tidbit. Diane Ward, homemaker, of Tacoma, WA, contributed a total of $1500 to the 2008 McCain campaign, in Sept and Nov of 2008. Apparently electing a Republican president was more important than funding their kid’s legal defense, at that point in time anyway.
http://www.campaignmoney.com/
The Wards do seem public-spirited, bi-partisan, and bi-coastal: Dyl gave a sizable donation (given his income) to the Hillary Clinton campaign in Florida in 2008.
The lesson learned from this civic engagement: Money talks for BS to walk (in this case, from these charges)?
PENELOPE Momma Ward probably thought that McCain held more promise for the future than her own son. Given the Gay maxim that the mother always “knows,” she just may be right. After all, McCain already finished his tour as a
“prisoner of war”; Joe has yet to serve his sentence as a prisoner of “whore.”
For Craig’s List: Why would someone “who could not hurt a child” be involved in any act of torture, however theatrical? How rapidly did a diffident and boyish dilettante acquire a taste for the outer limits of BDSM? To Dyl, is Joe still his only muse?
Clio,
Don’t do you see Joe’s expression about Dylan as not even able to “spank a child” as classic over reach in only the way that Joe Price can do. Think back to the legal defense letter where the language is all about the over reach, and the absolute shock that they would even be considered suspects when they where the only three at the home that night.
David
True, but what I find most revealing here is: Joe excused Victor and Dyl with hyperbole about mothers and children, but he then failed to do the same about himself. Was he taking the fall for wayward ward(s), or was he telling the truth (inadvertantly) about who really did it?
From what little I know about the BDSM scene, it is rare for a Master to have only one Slave if the opportunity to acquire more than one Slave presents itself. Whether a Slave will have more than one Master depends alot on whether any given Master would be willing to share that particular Slave with another.
I realize that does not answer the question at hand with any certainty. I think we need more information in order to be able to do so.
I am beginning to believe that the Dylan was only a willing participant in the whole BDSM thing to appease Joe, who was actually the real DOM, but from the bottom. The highlighted texts in the “how to” BDSM books make it seem like Dylan had to study and learn how to perform his role. Was he trying to convince himself this is what he also liked? Did he start getting into it so much because it made Joe happy? Most likely. While I do concede that there may be a learning curve in for anyone interested in improving on their BSDM, do we really have to study and highlight text to perform acts that come natural to us? The the most natural roles involving sex, at least for me, require no manuals. If the role is an honest one, passion and instinct tend to rule.
Dylan did what he had to do to keep Joe happy. Possibly part out of love, and possibly part out of enjoying the benefits of living a protected life with the Joe and Victor. I really do not believe these guys had any intent of murder. But their actions post “accident” make them just as guilty, if only from a moral standpoint.
If they thought for one second they could say they were involved in a consensual party and play session that went wrong, they would have jumped at the chance to use that as an out. Even they knew no one would buy it, and they would be immediately guilty of rape, administering drugs against Robert’s will, etc. So they denied all inolvement and tried to appear as innocent victims.
Sadly, had they just called 911 and told the truth at the moment they thought Robert died, he may still be alive. And only a personality like Joe’s could orchestrate what happened instead. There is the chance that they stabbed him out of fear, knowing he was alive and would possibly remember something. That is just too much to comprehend.
Ooops, sorry for the repeated words – its late!
Hey CHo,
I think you’re spot on. I do wonder if anyone even posed the question of whether to call 911 when they simply ‘thought’ Robert might be dead, or if they (Joe speaking, with Dylan listening, or Dylan and Victor) simply pronounced that the most logical thing to do was to stab him to make sure he couldn’t talk.
If they believed he was, genuinely and truly, deceased before the stabbing, there is no earthly reason to stab him.
Forgetting all the other reasons why it wasn’t an unknown intruder, had it been a stranger who’d very quietly broken in, drugged, stimulated and assaulted a man would not think it a good idea to ensure his death by stabbing. Chances of getting caught are low, and better to be caught for something short of murder.
The stabbing was premeditated murder. Had he willingly taken drugs and consensually agreed to sex play, the ambulance would have been called – and Robert would have been troubled and embarrassed by his own behavior, but he’d want to be alive. He was murdered because the criminals didn’t want him telling and pressing charges. What horrible people would kill a man instead of facing possible consequences for their own actions? About as low as they come.
We can further explore this later on but I’ve been wondering for months why no charges of negligent homicide / manslaughter were ever filed.
Putting aside the circumstances of Robert’s attack and death, why in and of itself isn’t the delay in calling 9-1-1 a charge that could’ve been leveled by the AUSA?
According to my law school, Wiki University, criminally negligent manslaughter is, “…where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness.”
“Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death.”
Doesn’t the alleged dithering for 14-34 minutes before calling 9-1-1 fit that description?
crackho, you make a lot of good points.
Just playing devil’s advocate re: Dylan’s theoretical lack of interest in BDSM. Joe Price seems like the strong, assertive type who knew exactly what he wanted (hell, maybe he did the highlighting in Dyl’s books) and had the means to get the best. Why would he want an inexperienced, ambivalent dom? There are plenty of professional doms who would welcome a live-in situation like Dyl’s. Unless his cooking is just that good.
To this I would say it is likely that Joe fell in love with Dylan when he was at tenant and felt moved to shape Dylan into the lover he wanted him to be.
ripe for the picking – any good narcissist would enjoy molding his own sex slave.
Crackho,
I agree 100%, Crackho. I still believe that Joe/Dylan assaulted Robert against his will and to protect themselves from being slapped with rape charges they killed him. Perhaps the ketamine they possibily injected him with wore off enough for Robert to be aware of what had happened, but not enough to ward off being attacked with a knife.
And I’ve always believed that Dylan’s interest in BDSM was at the behest of Joe. I mentioned in an earlier post that I just don’t think Dylan has the stuff to orchestrate this crime. Stuff being steeliness, coldness, brazen disregard. I still see Dylan as a lonely, shy sheep, that has followed Joe’s direction from the beginning of their relationship. He does as Joe asks.
Re the manuals…..I see that as fitting a pattern of Dylan’s. He develops an interest and dives in. Head first. And fortunately, he DID read manuals…BDSM is much more intricate than simply inflicting pain….did you know that if you cane someone, the skin around the cane marks excrete minute amounts of body fluid that should not be ingested because you can contract hepatitis if your BDSM partner has it? You should never use a beeswax candle…higher burning temperature. You shouldn’t tie someone’s arms above their head for more than 4 minutes? You can kill someone during SM play. People need to play safely. But I digress. LOL
CRACKHO Your conclusion in the last paragraph has been pretty much my theory from the start. So far as BDSM goes, there are lots of rules which
have to be followed in order to insure that the dom does not exceed the limits of his sub.
Otherwise one person could end up in the hospital and the other one could end up in jail.
For example, the concept of “safe words” is not one which necessarily comes naturally to people. While most just “wing it” when it comes to sex and some read sex manuals, there are actual trainings for people who want to get into BDSM.
More questions for Craig’s List: Did Dyl spend time in Japan teaching English, and how sociable was he with the local people? Was his study at Georgetown focused on possible service in Asian countries? Did his appreciation of Eastern cultures and practices stem from his family being from the Pacific Northwest?
CLIO If my memory serves me well and I may be confused: Dylan was raised in Japan, taught English in Taiwan and studied massage in Thailand.
I have a close friend who graduated from the foreign service school at Georgetown. I don’t that geographic area study is required, but it is not uncommon. My friend specialized in Japan.
A different take on the wolf and sheep analogy: it seems to me, the subject of this post has traits more in common w/the wolf than the sheep. Wolves are not attention seekers, they avoid unnecessary interaction, are experts at avoiding detection and attention; slinking in the shadows, silently stalking prey, blending with the terrain and they have piercing eyes. Just saying. Maybe a wolf in sheep’s clothing?
Only the blind can’t see the wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Joe has an alibi; he was in bed with his wife.
Joe is only interested in his own pleasure.
Joe is bottom; wishing others to inflict pleasure on him.
Joe is a lifelong Europhile.
Dylan has no alibi.
Dylan is a professional at giving pleasure to others.
Dylan was playing top then.
Dylan is a lifelong Asiaphile.
Dylan’s knife killed Wone.
Obvious.
Hi Obvious, despite enjoying your post, we’ve hit time and again that there’s no validation whatsoever of Dylan liking Asian men. He may have traveled to several places in Asia, but the only lover of his noted here is Joe Price, a big white boy. I agree that Dylan was “playing” top (not that he was one) but he likely had very little to say in that household. Hell, his own lover registered as a domestic partner months before with the ‘other guy’ in the master bedroom suite upstairs. As for Joe’s alibi – meaning upstairs with Victor – well, I’ll give you that Victor went to bed earlier than Joe and Dylan but whether Joe ever came to bed is iffy at best.
Perhaps I’m mistaken and Dylan is a more dangerous character than he seems, but if he acted alone, I really seriously doubt that Victor would not be telling everything he knows. No matter how much he says that they ‘were trying’ to make Dylan an equal part of the family, and even if he genuinely liked Dylan, he is not going to risk prison time and his life in flames to keep his hubby’s boy toy tucked safely in the little bedroom (where his hubby visits regularly). I imagine that Victor tried very hard NOT to think alot about when Joe came to bed or where he was sleeping.
An “alibi” that places you in the same house where a murder occurred isn’t an alibi.
Joe’s “alibi” cannot be substantiated. He (they) may as well have said he was tied up in the basement when the murder occurred. Or he was in Fiji. Or his granny was visiting and she was custom fitting a new knitted ballgag. If he can’t prove it, it’s useless information.
Again, it cannot be proven that Victor and Joe were asleep when the murder occurred, and just because they say it’s so doesn’t mean it is a fact.
Bea-There is no validation whatsoever that Dylan DIDN’T like Asian men-in fact it is safe to assume from his schooling, publishing, and travels Dylan is without a doubt an Asiaphile. It doesn’t mean Dylan would limit himself to Asian men-so he likely enjoyed extreme sport sex with Joe, also–especially if it included the security of a room in a posh neighborhood.
If alibis from spouses are not airtight then every married person is at risk from our justice system.
Obvious – of course I can’t prove a negative. I didn’t say Dylan didn’t like any Asian men or was anti-Asian men. I said only that there’s no validation of a long-standing rumor that he was into Asian men in particular; it’s been discussed many times that there’s no indication of the truth of that. In my estimation, it’s a farce to “conclude” that Dylan liked Asian men since no one in the position to ‘know’ has said so, and we’ve heard nothing of him having Asian lovers. We know of one lover, and it’s Joe. That he likes traveling to Asia is of no genuine relevance – it proves perhaps that he prefers Asian massage techniques and has found a niche in cheap publishing there, but not that he likes Asian men. For me, by example, my favorite city by far is Amsterdam – have been there far more times than any other non-US city – and it has nothing whatever to do with Dutch women.
By definition and translation of the word, an alibi means “elsewhere” or “in another place.” Joe was not elsewhere. He was under the same roof with Robert the night Robert was murdered.
Don’t forget that Victor is a defendant, as well, so Victor’s word is suspect. Victor has reason to lie.
If their alibi was “we were at Wendy’s” and showed a receipt for purchases at the approximate time of Robert’s death, well they might have been in luck. That would prove that they were elsewhere; “we were asleep” is useless. They were not elsewhere.
CD,
But in a court of law, both Joe and Victor’s statements would stand as evidence of their whereabouts since they can both account for each other. But nobody can account for Dylan.
It may be dubious, but don’t their alibis for each other stand as evidence equal to any physical evidence?
David
Er … um … no they wouldn’t.
David, (think about it); you have three men accused of conspiracy, no witnesses as to the three men’s actions and two of them say “we didn’t do anything bad, we were sleeping.” That isn’t evidence of anything, that’s absurd.
Surely, we aren’t going to be arguing at this level for long. It might make me wish to have Ben back …. on second thought … oh, never mind.
Everyone is sort-of right and sort-of wrong. While Victor and Joe can testify that they were asleep next to one another, and that is direct evidence, it’s not nearly as good as, say, being in the Bahamas. Or across town. The first issue is “credibility” – a jury does not have to believe a witness if they do not find him/her credible. Otherwise Ted Bundy could have taken the stand and said, simply, “I didn’t kill anyone – and I was giving myself a pedicure”.
The second issue is the funky nature of being asleep – can one asleep person really say their partner was next to them in bed all night? My partner often informs me that she’d been up during the night and I had no idea upon waking. Not as good an alibi as conscious awareness of the other’s whereabouts.
And we know Joe didn’t go to bed at the same time Victor did – did Victor even KNOW if/when Joe got in bed? If I get in bed later than my partner, I try my best not to wake her and often succeed.
And all this would require that Joe and Victor TESTIFY. No way in hell the defense is letting Victor testify (unless he cuts a deal). No way in hell the defense WANTS Joe to testify, but he’s a narcissist and may do so against his own better judgment (falling back to the cliche that a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client).
Sorry if I sound like a blowhard in this post. Just trying to clear up stuff.
Upstairs is “elsewhere” and “another place” is in their bedroom. What country are you from that you think domestic partners need a receipt from a burger joint to prove they were at home together?
Victor and Joe claim to be together and no one can credibly challenge them on that other than Dylan.
I don’t think anyone here–even the blindest Joe haters like you think Victor had anything to do with the murder.
See my post in thread above re testimony, credibility, timing of Victor going to bed earlier, and how when one is genuinely asleep, he cannot really vouch for the other’s whereabouts even if they’d gone to bed together. It’s not about Joe-hate. It’s about the law and common sense (which don’t always coincide but do here).
Oh, sigh.
The defense of alibi cannot be used by the defendants as they were in the house at the time of the murder.
ALIBI is a means of defense indicating that the accused were not physically able to commit a crime because there were not PRESENT at the scene of the crime. The scene of the crime was the HOUSE, not the bedroom or the sleep sofa. The defendants were IN the house. That means they were physically able to commit the crime.
Besides, the defendants are not even using “alibi” as a means of defense, nor have they given Notice of Alibi.
If they were sleeping in a different house that should be an alibi defense.
Obvious, “upstairs” is not “elsewhere” enough, and if it were we wouldn’t be having a trial.
Ultimately, the jury will decide whether to believe that Joe and Victor were asleep together upstairs when Robert was murdered. Based on the available evidence, and minus trouple testimony, I think there’s a lot of room for doubt. Just because two people say the same thing, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true.
Joe, Victor, and Dylan were all in the house when Robert was murdered. At least some element of the murder took place in the house, and anyone in that house at that time had opportunity.
In all likelihood, the defendants will not testify so no one will claim having been asleep (let alone ‘asleep together’). While some information will come in through prosecution witness cross (“didn’t he tell you he’d been asleep, Officer?”), that is not the same as Victor or Dylan taking the stand. Neither would hold up under cross exam, and the defense attorneys know that more bad can come of it than good. Joe is the wild card, whether his attorneys can talk him out of it. For a long time I thought they wouldn’t be able to, that he was too big a narcissist to give up the spotlight, but after living in the rec room of Aunt Marcia’s house and having to watch his pennies, perhaps some of the bluster has faded.
Obvious – Don’t be so certain. I’ll lean on two shop worn cliches, the first from the racetrack, “There’s no such thing as a sure thing.”
The other, a tried and true DC catch phrase, “The conventional wisdom is always wrong.”
There a handful of scenarios that could attach blame to Victor; for starters, waiting between 14 & 34 minutes to call 9-1-1 could certainly have contributed to Robert’s murder.
No one who was in that house that evening should get a free pass.
OBVIOUS I agree that Dylan knifed Robert on account of the nature of the wounds which I believe that only one trained in culinary arts could inflict, though it has been pointed out that Joe was an Eagle Scout.
So far as I know, Joe does not contend that he was in bed with Victor and Victor does not contend that Joe was in bed with him.
Joe is a domnant person who plays the submissive role in bed with Dylan. Dylan is a submissive person who plays the dominant role in bed with Joe.
But I am willing to bet that Joe is a “top” and Victor is a “bottom” when they are in bed together.
Furthermore, there is no evidence that Dylan is a “professional.” As CLIO suggested above, Dylan may actually have been trained by Joe.
If that is so, then it is Joe — not Dylan — who is the professional. In BDSM circles, there are Masters who have more experience than Slaves and their are Slaves who have more experience than Masters.
Sorry the formulas in the BDSM world are no simpler than the solution to the Wone murder. If anything, for some of us the solution to the Wone murder is a lot simpler than the formulas in the BDSM world.
Robert says: “on account of the nature of the wounds which I believe that only one trained in culinary arts could inflict, though it has been pointed out that Joe was an Eagle Scout.”
Stabbing someone in the chest/gut is a world of difference than fileting a fish. Please. It doesn’t not take expertise to stab someone that is immobilized.
I have read forensic studies that indicate that stabbing someone is like inserting a knife into butter once the tip of the knife breaks the skin. There is no resistance, unless the knife hits bone. It is all soft flesh.
Having done most of my cutting in foods, the only difficulty posed is in relation to moving objects (raised on a farm – and, yes, yuck). Immobile objects (be it bread, fish, fowl, etc.) make for a very easy job. I suspect that if one’s frame of mind ALLOWS for stabbing a person – and that’s a big leap – my guess is that one would do it swiftly and cleanly. While Dylan may have the superior knife skills, my money is still on Joe for the ability to get into that ‘frame of mind’ necessary to do the job, though much of what Robert (the commenter) has written today has resonated.
CD – Interesting that you mention that.
In the next couple weeks we’ll have something on the precise locations of the three stab wounds.
Will that something mention the wounds being upside down?
Yes, and more. Lots more.
Wasn’t the bed in which Robert was found up against the wall? As in the ‘headboard’ such that one couldn’t walk behind there in order to stab him ‘upside down’?
That’s right, Bea. I think there was a little room to the right side, but the back of the sofa was against the wall.
The graphics page that accompanied Paul Duggan’s Washington Post series shows the layout of the guest room.
Whoa there, I too will have to object to the idea that culinary expertise is required to inflict nice neat tidy death wounds. Being myself a considerable adept chef and expert with all manner of kitchen knives I can tell you that there are in fact many other occupations that would make one better suited for this task, lawyering being but one of them. It would require a steady nerve, a considerable amount of moral negation and an idea of personal entitlement at any cost to others more associated with that calling.
That said, ownership of the knife in question in a homicide would cause me to cast a gimlet eye on the owner be he chef, lawyer or Indian chief.
just sayin’
David, as a “woman” of a certain age, I loved the riffs from the songs by the famed British act, the Who, in your post about Mr. Ward above. It made me think of both Dylan, whose first name evokes a popular musician from the same halycon era, and the Who in a different light.
On a different topic, does anyone think that Dylan has replenished or expanded his toy chest since the murder of Robert? My guess is definitely no: the Price-Ward mesalliance has cooled substantially and exists only now to keep both parties out of jail. Plus, Aunt Marcia probably vetoed any semblance of a play space from the get-go: her secular convent must be real penance for at least Joe.
Clio,
Glad you appreciated the Who references. I for one would never have made it through adolescence without the song “Behind Blue Eyes.” Though now, I too, hear the song much differently when thinking about this case.
And I agree, a new ice age has descended upon 7900 Ariel Way and will probably never thaw, and certainly won’t reach global warming proportions ever again. Before August 2, their bond embraced Dionysis, now their bond is to escape Themis.
David
CLIO Given all the legal expenses and the failure of the LGBT community to contribute to the worthy cause of the dynamic trio, where would Dylan get the money for new toys? Aunt Marcia?
Scooter Girl could chip a little into the kitty to placate her darling Dyl, but fiscal as well as emotional realities may have greatly limited the intimate horizons of our unholy Trinity. My bet is that Dyl has sworn off any BDSM or drugs, until he goes to jail.
Clio – Something to come soon on how the trouple may be financing their legal defense.
Not ground breaking news but an interesting find from the databases that I don’t think we’ve seen before.
Thanks, Craig, in advance for that nugget of news: I knew that the Four Horsemen couldn’t be paid in happy endings, board memberships in gay organizations, and milk. They probably require English, not continental, fare — something a little more substantial, perhaps.
I have to say that I am more than just a little surprised that in over 3 years time, not one person has come forward to confirm contact (play) with Joe and Dylan. In a world full of people who can often feel used and jilted especially after a “hookup” and in a scenario where “punishment and torture” take place, not one person (that we know of) has complained or pointed a finger. Do any of you think that it is possible that some of their “playmates” could be called as witnesses? I can only wonder at this point just how “open” Joe really was. Obviously open in his marriage, and open with his Dom since he was on a hookup site (alt.com). Could he have been open enough to have let Dylan play on his own? Could Dylan have invited a playmate to the house after Joe went to bed that night? Could this have been a playmate/substance sharing or providing friend?
Since my first visit here, so many questions, so much speculation and frustration. More evidence can not come soon enough! Your thoughts?
The evidence (or lack thereof) does not point to a non-resident participant. Besides, Joe/Victor would have thrown such a person to the wolves to save themselves and Dylan.
The aggressive, multifaceted and thorough clean-up of the scene, the absurd switching of the murder weapon and the damning time-lapse between the actual attack on Robert and the placing of the 911 call, followed by the lying interviews with the police and subsequent stonewalling all indicate craven acts of self-preservation on the part of the participants. These are lengths that none of these men would go to to protect another party outside of their intimate three person cadre, even Michael Price, let alone a strange other person if that person were the sole perpetrator.
The possibility of another party having been present and having acted as a co-conspirator and co-evidence tamperer (evidence remover) is viable though, to my thinking anyway.
JFR, I see the lack of trouple tricks coming out of the woodwork as confirmation that Joe (especially)and Dyl (to please Joe) wanted additional playmates but could not attract them — due to their social awkwardness (Joe’s boorishness/Dyl’s diffidence), possible creepiness/alt.com factors, their own possible screening/snobbishness about the physical features of potential mates, etc. This duo strikes me as middle-aged, would-be players who largely ended up playing mainly with themselves. That not-so-quiet desperation could have been an immediate cause in their decision to attack Robert.
To me, there is also a “best little boys in the world” earnestness about Dyl and Joe that, however hard they tried to replicate hardcore scenes, they probably came up short — even to themselves. Hence, there came that need for more daring thrills and more partners. But the partners never came, so, in this scenario, they chose more daring thrills — such as sexually assaulting an unsuspecting friend.
JUSTICEFORROBERT Without getting into legal technicalities: I do not think that the “third parties” to whom you refer could be called as witnesses. They cannot testify to the events of that evening or the acts of the participants in relation thereto.
“It seems he never gave a second thought to being second-rate.”
So, why didn’t he apply such high standards to his personal life? Certainly, even our “Puck from Tacoma” could have done better for himself than cohabitating with a “married” small fish in a big pond.
My father used to say that “the children of great man have a hard row to hoe.”
Look at George Bush. He so wanted the approval of his abusive father that it drove him to drinking,
drugging and becoming that for which he had otherwise no desire.
None of Martin Luther King’s children are married and one of them is his antithesis.
I have a friend whose father is the leading neurosurgeon in another country. He is constantly competing with his father. And guess what? He always loses.
I think that is what has been going on with Dylan.
If only Dylan could get thus and such degree and accomplish something great or get that and such degree and accomplish something great, maybe a father whom Dylan may have perceived — correctly or incorrectly — failed to respect him would do so and thereby Dylan would come to respect himself.
Not to mention that self-respect is a major issue for LGBT people who fear condemnation by the State, excommunication by the church, termination by the employer, expulsion by the school, abandonment by friends and disownership by the family.
Interesting post, Robert. Your rebuttal, Needham?
I have a very difficult time indeed seeing Dylan Ward as someone concerned with “achievement”–the trajectory from Georgetown to Culinary Institute to M.A. in Children’s Literature from Simmons to a certificate in Thai massage–well, this doesn’t strike me as movement up, not by a long shot. Dylan may be a good writer, as one professor noted, but his children’s books were published by his own company and are thus essentially vanity press publications–none were published by a trade publisher, say, whether in the US or aboard. As for his living situation–well, he seems to me to be a bit old to be so undefined in his career and to be essentially a lodger in the household of a couple.
I know, I know–a “polyamorous family,” but not a “family” in which he seems to have had any real estate rights. Watching him during a status hearing, one can’t help but feel he’s out of his element, incapable of mugging appropriate expressions–as opposed to Joe Price, for instance, whose remains animated in a way that looks so professional as to seem calculated even. He sits half the time with his eyes shut. Dylan Ward is the lost boy.
So, Richard, were you at the hearing today? I agree with what you say – if you were there, any additional insights or impressions (however mundane) about the defendants, one or all?
While I don’t disagree with anything you have said, I find that it appears to takes alot longer for many Gay men (I don’t know about women) to grow up than it does for many Straight men.
I am 50+ years old. My friends are pretty evenly divided between Gay and Straight.
I cannot think of a single one of my 30+, 40+, 50+ Straight friends who cannot pay the rent or who is living with somebody with whom they are not in an intimate relationship.
I cannot tell you how many 30+, 40+, 50+ Gay men I know who cannot pay the rent and live with people to whom they are not related.
Dylan does appear to be a “lost boy”; lost like a lot of young Gay men that are known to me.
It is sad but true. I only hope that will change in the future. But there is no guarantee that will be.
Nearly all of the gay men (of a certain age) who I know are long-married, balding, overweight, and prosperous, just like their middle-aged and middle-class counterparts who happen to be straight. Dyl the dilletante is more the exception than the rule: thank the Goddess!
I have to say that my anecdotal evidence (e.g. my friends) shows that I know of no lesbians (30-50+) who aren’t self-supporting (at least within couples) but do know a couple of gay men who rely on the kindness of strangers (well, mostly their family and friends). As for straight friends, I do know a couple of women in the ‘kindness of strangers’ categories but no men. Odd, and likely telling of nothing.