Department of Corrections
For the past couple of months we’ve occasionally made sport of DC Police Chief Cathy Lanier’s reticence to speak on the record about the Wone murder, repeating her mantra again and again, “It’s an active investigation.”
It was easy to poke gentle fun at what seemed to be a classic exhibition of bobbing, weaving and remarkable message discipline.
Would you believe she wasn’t just spinning us?
According to informed sources, the investigation is indeed still very active.
The murder investigation that is.
On the case from the very beginning, Detective Daniel Wagner is still helming the murder inquiry for the MPD.
Described by another knowledgable source as one of the MPD’s best investigators, he is, “…smart, intellectual and cerebral…”
Wagner handled the first round of interrogations in the wee hours of August 3, 2006 with his partner Detective Daniel Whalen. In Paul Duggan’s Washington Post series, that questioning came off as some serious hardball:
There was no evidence of forced entry and no disarray in the house, and nothing had been stolen. Detectives wondered instead about a possible sex angle connected to the housemates being gay. In an interrogation room, for example, Detective Daniel Wagner, then a 23-year veteran of the force, goaded Price, saying it was obvious to him that the men had planned to make Wone a part of their family that night.
“I got three homosexuals in the house and I got one straight guy,” Wagner said to Price. ” What’s he doing over there? What’s he doing over there?”
Then he answered his own question. “I think we were all drinking wine,” the detective said. And he imagined the men’s thoughts toward their visitor: “You are coming to Jesus tonight; that’s what is going on tonight.”
“The interrogtion may not have been done as well as possible,” we were told and Price apparently never did find religion that evening.
Because the three housemates stuck so close to their alibi of an “intruder,” and the lack of any apparent motive on their part to kill Robert, the investigation gravitated away from them. “Instincts said ‘intruder,’ ” we were told.
The mostly likely “intruder” to them was Price’s brother Michael. More on that later.
What old leads Detective Wagner has to chase and what new ones may develop is anyone’s guess. He’s still interested in any and all tips.
-posted by Craig
The MPD investigation is tainted: it’s the fruit of the poisonous tree. The toxic tree’s roots & branches extended into the Medical Examiner & EMS divisions from day one. I figured this out a while back with all the conflated, labored, toxic conclusions that seeped out of every department.
Ben
Hi Ben, it isn’t every day you get to mouth the words from first-year law school – but I disagree with your sweeping statement that all is ‘fruit of the poisonous tree’. In what world? Typically such language refers to evidence found as a result of a ‘bad’ search. I have no idea what you’re referencing with the language ‘conflated, labored, toxic conclusions’ which ‘seeped out of every department.’
For example, what did the EMS do wrong? And you’re sure the Medical Examiner did something wrong as well – but what? Can it be because evidence suggests that a W&M alum broke the law in a big way? Don’t forget that another W&M alum was murdered in cold blood. He’s the one you should be concerned with, Ben.
Bea,
An investigation is a search!
I want justice for both Wone & Price & spouses. It won’t come from flawed investigations from lazy, prejudiced cops, spouting the name of Jesus looking for the “ends to justify the means” with “black magic” from the labs of other Joyce Gilchirsts.
By skewing their investigation to look for a sexual motive the MPD & other departments found it. It kept them from looking as deeply at other factors–like the known side effects of Ward’s prescriptions, Wone’s masturbation practices(s) & at least two far more likely reasons for no defensive wounds on Wone, all covered by my early posts.
Ben
Hi Ben, actually “an investigation” is not “a search” and the fruit of the poisonous tree would be inapplicable.
Even the basic reference from Wikipedia makes this clear:
Fruit of the poisonous tree is a legal metaphor in the United States used to describe evidence gathered with the aid of information obtained illegally. The logic of the terminology is that if the source of the evidence (the “tree”) is tainted, then anything gained from it (the “fruit”) is as well.
Such evidence is not generally admissible in court. For example, if a police officer conducted an unconstitutional (Fourth Amendment) search of a home and obtained a key to a train station locker, and evidence of crime from the locker, that evidence would most likely be excluded under the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine. The discovery of a witness is not evidence in itself because the witness is attenuated by separate interviews, in-court testimony and his or her own statements.
The doctrine is an extension of the exclusionary rule, which, subject to some exceptions, prevents evidence obtained in violation of the Fourth Amendment from being admitted in a criminal trial. Like the exclusionary rule, the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine is intended to deter police from using illegal means to obtain evidence.
The doctrine is subject to three main exceptions. The tainted evidence is admissible if:
1. it was discovered in part as a result of an independent, untainted source;
2. it would inevitably have been discovered despite the tainted source; or
3. the chain of causation between the illegal action and the tainted evidence is too attenuated.
The Fruit of the Poisonous Tree doctrine stems from the 1920 case of Silverthorne Lumber Co. v. United States.
Bea,
If a search or an investigation is led in one direction its fruit cannot be independent or untainted. We need to look at the cops just as critically as we do the defendants.
Ben
Ben, your language here is sloppy. If you are a lawyer then you’ll know that ‘fruit’ must come from an illegal search. No such thing as an investigation ‘led in’ the wrong direction as being tainted evidence. If you can be clearer, please explain. See Wikipedia reference if you’re not an attorney.
I’m not talking about Silverthorne’s doctrine–my reference is Biblical since the name of Jesus was invoked:
“Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them” –Matthew 7:17-20
Ben, are you an attorney?
I did not finish law school choosing a spiritual path instead–I am a practicing Taoist monk– but I am not in residence in any temple currently.
You’re a practising Taoist monk and you have affairs with married men? You’re gonna have to come back a bunch of times, Ben. Enlightenment is not in your immediate future.
Well, no disrespect to the Catholic Church, but if priests can have affairs with little boys…
Ben said he was a practicing Taoist monk. But he didn’t say he was a good one. Or what he was practicing.
and people (whether of the cloth or not) that molest and rape children should be put it the deepest darkest prison cell to rot for the rest of their days.
Well CD, fortunately Ben is probably just telling silly lies on the internet so we don’t actually have to worry about that.
Oh for Pete’s sake (lost count).
Ben, you were indeed talking about the law before you decided to switch to religion (once busted). Read your own posts. And I really don’t think Bernie and Company will get far with Motions to Suppress based on scripture.
Ben, although I knew you were conversant with Scripture, I would have never guessed that you would resort to it in a duel of wit and wisdom.
The Ben Franklin that history knows was an Enlightenment philosophe and not a monk of any sort (especially in his seventies, I am afraid)!
The fruit of the poisonous tree in this unhappy story, as you know, Ben, is the cover-up with the tree being the trouple who, according to many casewatchers, poisoned, raped, and killed Robert, a friend in the wrong spot at the wrong time.
Although Dyl does still seem more like the White Rabbit in Alice in Wonderland than a prominent branch of a talking, nasty tree from the Wizard of Oz, but that’s just me.
Ben – How was the investigation “skewed” by looking for a sexual motive?
Maybe Detective Wagner & Whalen’s initial instincts were right – as the medical examiner was to find out later…
Craig,
It fouls scientific method in a case that’s built on scientific evidence. Wagner’s “cerebral” approach is the worst type of stereotyping & homophobia.
No wonder we are killed & beaten in gay bashings due this kind of fear-mongering by police & military. We don’t all want to get in to straight mens’ pants. It’s an incredibly stupid way to START an investigation.
A wink & a nod from a 24-year veteran detective to the ME & EMS is all it would take to get “suggestions” compatible with his hunch–especially for the purposes of affidavits.
I am suggesting a conspiracy between investigating departments. It’s done all the time–but I never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence & misunderstanding.
Ben
I have suspected all along that the only reason the trouple still has supporters out of anything other than blind loyalty is because they feel that the trouple is being unfairly persecuted in a homophobic investigation. This post confirms my hunch, regardless of whether Ben himself is objective.
A single comment during an interrogation is a flimsy peg on which to hang such a heavy hat.
Read the prosecution’s response to the Motion to Dismiss if you haven’t already. It lays out a damning case for obstruction and tampering, one that surprised me with its persuasiveness. And there is nothing about orientation or sexual assault in there — just murder and lies.
Few doubts remain in my mind that Ward in the culprit for the murder & the obstruction & tampering. Ward is the one who planted the seed of deception with his “is the back door open” question-suggestion. Price & Zaborsky had no other better information at the time. No one knows when they figured it out.
Concurrence is not conspiracy.
I agree Craig.
Robert Wone was a straight man that was very likely raped and murdered by gay men.
Maybe the detectives wording was off when questioning Price, but the detective was certainly on the right track. It is highly likely that there was a sexual motivation to this crime.
And, for the record, I’m gay.
Ben, don’t you think its just a little funny that Ward’s “prescriptions” suddenly kicked in in very bad way the night Robert was there? Certainly not buying the prescription thing. Street drugs, maybe. Anti-depressants? Sleeping tablets? Sure, there are some documented cases, but extremely rare. These are the stories that spawn a heft of urban legends.
Ben, you are full of hooey.
Again, you have no idea what the EMTs did that night. Their records have not been released to the public.
The MPD investigation is tainted: it’s the fruit of the poisonous tree. The toxic tree’s roots & branches extended into the Medical Examiner & EMS divisions from day one. I figured this out a while back with all the conflated, labored, toxic conclusions that seeped out of every department.
Ben
Hi Ben, it isn’t every day you get to mouth the words from first-year law school – but I disagree with your sweeping statement that all is ‘fruit of the poisonous tree’. In what world? Typically such language refers to evidence found as a result of a ‘bad’ search. I have no idea what you’re referencing with the language ‘conflated, labored, toxic conclusions’ which ‘seeped out of every department.’
For example, what did the EMS do wrong? And you’re sure the Medical Examiner did something wrong as well – but what? Can it be because evidence suggests that a W&M alum broke the law in a big way? Don’t forget that another W&M alum was murdered in cold blood. He’s the one you should be concerned with, Ben.
Bea,
An investigation is a search!
I want justice for both Wone & Price & spouses. It won’t come from flawed investigations from lazy, prejudiced cops, spouting the name of Jesus looking for the “ends to justify the means” with “black magic” from the labs of other Joyce Gilchirsts.
By skewing their investigation to look for a sexual motive the MPD & other departments found it. It kept them from looking as deeply at other factors–like the known side effects of Ward’s prescriptions, Wone’s masturbation practices(s) & at least two far more likely reasons for no defensive wounds on Wone, all covered by my early posts.
Ben
Hi Ben, actually “an investigation” is not “a search” and the fruit of the poisonous tree would be inapplicable.
Even the basic reference from Wikipedia makes this clear:
Fruit of the poisonous tree is a legal metaphor in the United States used to describe evidence gathered with the aid of information obtained illegally. The logic of the terminology is that if the source of the evidence (the “tree”) is tainted, then anything gained from it (the “fruit”) is as well.
Such evidence is not generally admissible in court. For example, if a police officer conducted an unconstitutional (Fourth Amendment) search of a home and obtained a key to a train station locker, and evidence of crime from the locker, that evidence would most likely be excluded under the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine. The discovery of a witness is not evidence in itself because the witness is attenuated by separate interviews, in-court testimony and his or her own statements.
The doctrine is an extension of the exclusionary rule, which, subject to some exceptions, prevents evidence obtained in violation of the Fourth Amendment from being admitted in a criminal trial. Like the exclusionary rule, the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine is intended to deter police from using illegal means to obtain evidence.
The doctrine is subject to three main exceptions. The tainted evidence is admissible if:
1. it was discovered in part as a result of an independent, untainted source;
2. it would inevitably have been discovered despite the tainted source; or
3. the chain of causation between the illegal action and the tainted evidence is too attenuated.
The Fruit of the Poisonous Tree doctrine stems from the 1920 case of Silverthorne Lumber Co. v. United States.
Bea,
If a search or an investigation is led in one direction its fruit cannot be independent or untainted. We need to look at the cops just as critically as we do the defendants.
Ben
Ben, your language here is sloppy. If you are a lawyer then you’ll know that ‘fruit’ must come from an illegal search. No such thing as an investigation ‘led in’ the wrong direction as being tainted evidence. If you can be clearer, please explain. See Wikipedia reference if you’re not an attorney.
I’m not talking about Silverthorne’s doctrine–my reference is Biblical since the name of Jesus was invoked:
“Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them” –Matthew 7:17-20
Ben, are you an attorney?
I did not finish law school choosing a spiritual path instead–I am a practicing Taoist monk– but I am not in residence in any temple currently.
You’re a practising Taoist monk and you have affairs with married men? You’re gonna have to come back a bunch of times, Ben. Enlightenment is not in your immediate future.
Well, no disrespect to the Catholic Church, but if priests can have affairs with little boys…
Ben said he was a practicing Taoist monk. But he didn’t say he was a good one. Or what he was practicing.
priests don’t have “affairs” with little boys. they molest and rape them.
People of the cloth, no matter what persuasion, should take their vows more seriously. If they cannot, then they should not represent themselves as such.
and people (whether of the cloth or not) that molest and rape children should be put it the deepest darkest prison cell to rot for the rest of their days.
Well CD, fortunately Ben is probably just telling silly lies on the internet so we don’t actually have to worry about that.
CD, my sincere apologies for making light of a very serious subject – forgive me if I offended. I agree whole heartedly with everything you said.
Oh for Pete’s sake (lost count).
Who is Pete?
Didn’t he go to W &M?i
Ben, you were indeed talking about the law before you decided to switch to religion (once busted). Read your own posts. And I really don’t think Bernie and Company will get far with Motions to Suppress based on scripture.
Ben, although I knew you were conversant with Scripture, I would have never guessed that you would resort to it in a duel of wit and wisdom.
The Ben Franklin that history knows was an Enlightenment philosophe and not a monk of any sort (especially in his seventies, I am afraid)!
The fruit of the poisonous tree in this unhappy story, as you know, Ben, is the cover-up with the tree being the trouple who, according to many casewatchers, poisoned, raped, and killed Robert, a friend in the wrong spot at the wrong time.
Although Dyl does still seem more like the White Rabbit in Alice in Wonderland than a prominent branch of a talking, nasty tree from the Wizard of Oz, but that’s just me.
Ben – How was the investigation “skewed” by looking for a sexual motive?
Maybe Detective Wagner & Whalen’s initial instincts were right – as the medical examiner was to find out later…
Craig,
It fouls scientific method in a case that’s built on scientific evidence. Wagner’s “cerebral” approach is the worst type of stereotyping & homophobia.
No wonder we are killed & beaten in gay bashings due this kind of fear-mongering by police & military. We don’t all want to get in to straight mens’ pants. It’s an incredibly stupid way to START an investigation.
A wink & a nod from a 24-year veteran detective to the ME & EMS is all it would take to get “suggestions” compatible with his hunch–especially for the purposes of affidavits.
I am suggesting a conspiracy between investigating departments. It’s done all the time–but I never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence & misunderstanding.
Ben
I have suspected all along that the only reason the trouple still has supporters out of anything other than blind loyalty is because they feel that the trouple is being unfairly persecuted in a homophobic investigation. This post confirms my hunch, regardless of whether Ben himself is objective.
A single comment during an interrogation is a flimsy peg on which to hang such a heavy hat.
Read the prosecution’s response to the Motion to Dismiss if you haven’t already. It lays out a damning case for obstruction and tampering, one that surprised me with its persuasiveness. And there is nothing about orientation or sexual assault in there — just murder and lies.
Few doubts remain in my mind that Ward in the culprit for the murder & the obstruction & tampering. Ward is the one who planted the seed of deception with his “is the back door open” question-suggestion. Price & Zaborsky had no other better information at the time. No one knows when they figured it out.
Concurrence is not conspiracy.
“Concurrence is not conspiracy” – inaccurate if that concurrence included assisting with clean-up OR telling lies to throw off the investigation. Hilarious that you play the “gay card” about the investigation but only on Joe’s behalf – you WANT Dylan to be convicted.
Sorry, Ben, but you’re a Joe apologist, and the way you avoid logic and reason when it comes to him leads me to believe that you’ve not been honest here, that you do know him, or like the women who wrote to the Night Stalker, WISH to know him. Very odd.
Bea,
What other information would could P&Z have known at the moment they discovered Wone’s body drained of blood & posed on the bed by RX-zombie Ward? (Suppose that is how it happened)
I agree-concurrence can be conspiracy if it was known to be false at the moment it was spoken with the intent to deceive.
Don’t dismiss me as an apologist for anyone.
Who is P?
Ben, if you really think it possible that Dylan killed, showered, redressed and moved Robert (and drained his blood, and performed stim on him), then found “his” knife, killed him, then inserted the kitchen knife as a cover WITHOUT waking two men, one of whom had gone to bed only minutes before, then Dylan is a masterfully quiet criminal. Didn’t you say, however, that he was in a fugue state? Amazing to have his wits about him.
Okay, so Victor and Joe together happen upon the already-dead Robert (highly unlikely, but we’ll go with it). If they lie to the police, that is conspiracy. If they wait to call the ambulance, that’s obstruction. In other words, they SHOULD have called 911 and gotten an ambulance for Robert the moment they saw/heard anything. Lying to the cops (read the affidavit) makes them guilty. And I suspect Joe Price may be both the killer and the real ‘brains’ (if you can say this) behind the alibi/story.
They are liars and criminals, both Price and Zaborsky, and Price is a likely a far worse criminal (in terms of culpability and actions). You should start to face the facts. Or try your luck elsewhere in seeing what ‘flies’ for the defense.
I agree Craig.
Robert Wone was a straight man that was very likely raped and murdered by gay men.
Maybe the detectives wording was off when questioning Price, but the detective was certainly on the right track. It is highly likely that there was a sexual motivation to this crime.
And, for the record, I’m gay.
as an added thought, there are times when gay (and all minorities for that matter) and persecuted or targeted. But not always. Crying foul for everything dilutes the power of the laws that protect minorities.
I can imagine a detective saying the same thing if Robert would have been a female and the two housemates were straight. Well, not the same thing – something similar. I really don’t find anything homophobic about it, especially since its probably true – exept for the wine part. Alcohol only gets in the way of one’s Tina/Gina (meth and GHB) experience.
FCH-I originally thought this was a drug-fueled play party but it just doesn’t add up with the evidence that we know about. If it was, I agree with your expert Tina/Gina assessment but I don’t think Joe Price was there. Maybe Michael.
Ward’s polygraph will be a revelation in this area or inquiry.
Ben, why the turn? The evidence when you tuned in is the same evidence all along.
I’ve always been a fan of the p5 or Ward+1 scenario.That P5 would need to be family like Michael Price for cover up motive to have worked this long. Michael Price must have an airtight alibi or we would have heard more about it. He does resurface during interrogations so he was reachable by phone. Cell records might tell us a story here. FBI is smart–a lot smarter than MPD.
Ben, why do you think Michael Price was there? Not Joe, who lives there and has a relationship with Dylan on the same floor, across the hall from Robert?
Ward’s polygraph won’t be admissible, as you likely know. No revelations are forthcoming in that regard.
Like CD, I wonder why the change of heart. And how you still keep Joe out of the fray.
I’m not changing my mind but it is open. If there were illicit drugs, Meth & GHB are the likely candidate drugs for Ward & Wone, respectively. But show me the evidence-easy, reliable tests for both should have been run.
I keep Joe out of the fray not because he is a saint, but because he is a hedonist. Hedonists do only do what is pleasurable for them. I do not judge him for that as many of you do.
Raping a platonic school chum whom he did not find in any way sexually interesting or attractive is something a hedonist would not do.
Lust does not lie.
Ben, don’t you think its just a little funny that Ward’s “prescriptions” suddenly kicked in in very bad way the night Robert was there? Certainly not buying the prescription thing. Street drugs, maybe. Anti-depressants? Sleeping tablets? Sure, there are some documented cases, but extremely rare. These are the stories that spawn a heft of urban legends.
FCH-There is an unpredictable tipping point with these prescription drugs when they are peaking or fading.
The two cases I’ve seen of catatonic fugue states were on trans-oceanic red-eye flights where the passengers took one more pill than prescribed for quick sleep. Fights & nudity– but no serious tragedies on board because carry-on is screened for sharp objects.
I’m not seeing any evidence of illegal drug use that night (school night). Just prescriptions. Ben
Ah, I see, a Taoist monk-gay-W&M-grad-who-is-irresistible-to-happily-married-men-medical-expert-flight-steward.
What a guy.
AZ, don’t forget that our Ben owns an urban B&B where the guests must be in by midnight.
Dylan to Ben: Et tu, Spag?
Ben’s Taoist monk sideline certainly explains what he meant by “altitude” – he’s blogging from his meditation crag on the eastern face of Mt. Machhapuchre. Silly me – I actually believed he was merely a plugged-in sex worker and DL connection for married weasels.
To paraphrase some vintage Letterman irony, Madonna era: “(Conspiratorial whisper) I think Ben just wants attention.”
I’m an authentic traveler, not a steward & my home is my temple, not a B&B. Please focus on the subject, ladies.
Just a B? No &B? You’ve already said you have some ad hoc rooming house.
Ben, you are full of hooey.
Again, you have no idea what the EMTs did that night. Their records have not been released to the public.
“Ben, you are full of hooey.
Again, you have no idea what the EMTs did that night. Their records have not been released to the public.”
But I wonder CD, have those records been released to the defense … Released, then manipulated and massaged into “facts” to be “leaked” by the “friends” of the defense?
Hi Ex-Swann Dude, interesting point! Something about him says that he either is spinning for the defense or he’s been following tricks around and picking up all the X they drop.
Personally, I don’t think he’s in the know. I think he just enjoys the attention he gets by being the current mouthpiece on this website for the defense.
I think if he really knew the defendants (a little OR a lot) he would have come out with in the beginning. He’s upped his relationship with them as he’s gone along to suit his postings.
He’s a poser.
Why would Detective Wagner turn water into wine in reference to the beverage served in that cramped kitchen? And, why would Wagner have all three involved at least implicitly in the plan/split decision to pounce upon unsuspecting Robert? An unholy trinity placing something unholy in the water: it is no wonder, then, that the “cerebral” Wagner had Jesus on his mind!
Brilliant Muse!
Annoying as Wagner was, I assume he was trying to rattle the defendants whether or not he meant any of it. Hate the homophobia, of course, but know enough cops to know that they’ll push anyone’s buttons if they think it will fluster someone into dropping info (if not confessing).
Understood, Bea, but why then was it the case in which the interrogation “may not have been done as well as possible?” Was the good cop — Folts — too good? Was the bad cop — Wagner — too bad?
Wagner, however, does seem clever, using New Testament imagery against the hedonist Price, who, in turn, would recognize and resent that religious reference coming from his provincial pasts of east Texas and military family. Yet the interrogation does raise this question: Who in particular forgot to turn on the tape recorder(s)? Is that error common?
Why would Detective Wagner turn water into wine in reference to the beverage served in that cramped kitchen? And, why would Wagner have all three involved at least implicitly in the plan/split decision to pounce upon unsuspecting Robert? An unholy trinity placing something unholy in the water: it is no wonder, then, that the “cerebral” Wagner had Jesus on his mind!
Brilliant Muse!
Annoying as Wagner was, I assume he was trying to rattle the defendants whether or not he meant any of it. Hate the homophobia, of course, but know enough cops to know that they’ll push anyone’s buttons if they think it will fluster someone into dropping info (if not confessing).
Understood, Bea, but why then was it the case in which the interrogation “may not have been done as well as possible?” Was the good cop — Folts — too good? Was the bad cop — Wagner — too bad?
Wagner, however, does seem clever, using New Testament imagery against the hedonist Price, who, in turn, would recognize and resent that religious reference coming from his provincial pasts of east Texas and military family. Yet the interrogation does raise this question: Who in particular forgot to turn on the tape recorder(s)? Is that error common?
On Wagner’s water to wine usage, do you think that the “cerebral” detective had the same “genteel host” expectations that the Editors had?
Wealthy gay men in the federal capital should be serving something more substantial than tap water … and street drugs! It makes one misty-eyed for the dinner parties of President James Buchanan and his niece.
I am leaning to the idea that Michael was either already at the house when Robert arrived, or arrived slightly thereafter. With drugs. I have had a feeling for sometime that Michael was one of their connections to the drug world, and perhaps he came by to drop off a little something for Joe and Dylan, and (without his knowledge) Robert. So, if I have to choose between Michael or Sarah as the fourth, I’ll go with Michael. And I think he is going to have a bigger role in all of this soon.
I am leaning to the idea that Michael was either already at the house when Robert arrived, or arrived slightly thereafter. With drugs. I have had a feeling for sometime that Michael was one of their connections to the drug world, and perhaps he came by to drop off a little something for Joe and Dylan, and (without his knowledge) Robert. So, if I have to choose between Michael or Sarah as the fourth, I’ll go with Michael. And I think he is going to have a bigger role in all of this soon.
I wonder if Michael is still working his two retail jobs; perhaps the Christmas rush this year is diverting him from his earlier resorts to the streets.
I’m going in town tonight…Was it go mama go or Pulp Fiction. What does he look like? Doesn’t matter – I’ll just ask any male clerk I see if he knows the address of the house nearby where the power bottom attorney and his nelly master committed rape and murder.
I think the stores at which Michael worked (as late as July) were Rue 14 and Go, Mama, Go! Are these shops still there, or has the Great Recession claimed them, too?
Michael looks like Joe … now. Crime is the great leveler with both Price brothers of this tragedy probably making the same lousy incomes. Michael may even be paying for breakfasts at Cosi’s, these days, although if only for a bitter party of one.
Clio,
It looks like Go Mama Go has got up and gone as it has recently announced the doors will be shuttered as soon as February, from what I was told.
David
Pity! I trust that his loss of a job does not force Michael into working the streets. At his age and with his looks, he would be hard-pressed to get any clients at all.
“if I have to choose between Michael or Sarah as the fourth, I’ll go with Michael. And I think he is going to have a bigger role in all of this soon.”
I totally agree FCH
Both Rue 14 and Go Mama Go are still open on 14th Street. I saw Michael Price in the ‘hood about a month ago at a nearby convenience store.
Was it at the same 7-11 at which the Crown Vic stopped on August 3, 2006?
Stay classy, Michael: for what it’s worth, you may become the Price family patriarch after all.
Ben says: “Raping a platonic school chum whom he did not find in any way sexually interesting or attractive is something a hedonist would not do.”
We don’t know who did what that night, Ben. Joe may not have been the one to lay hands on Robert during any sexual assault. But I believe Joe participated in Robert’s murder.
Joe is more than a hedonist. Many on this site believe he is a narcissist. Perhaps even a sociopath. His behavior before and after the murder showed recklessness and disregard for rules. A narcissist cares not for the feelings of others. Only themselves. Joe Price may have broken the ultimate rule on August 2, 2006.
CD,
Sociopaths & narcissist have serious personality disorders. There’s no fixing them. People who suffer with this combo are usually not high achievers with personal, academic & professional success.
These are the terms people who know Joe Price well use to describe him:
• Alpha male
• Type A personality
• Confident (overly so sometimes)
• Ego-manic
Oh really? Picasso was a narcissist. Not exactly an underachiever.
And narcissism, anti-social personality disorder (sociopaths, psychopaths) have been discussed ad nauseum before you ever showed up. Joe Price has MANY traits of a narcissist (NPD). He even had borderline traits of APD (anti social personality disorder).
I’m well aware that NPD and APD are serious personalities. And from behavior documented by the autorities AND people that have know Joe Price personality, indicate he may have NPD.
Ben, over and over and over, you speak like you know Joe Price. Why don’t you just admit it? Or do you just like to act like you know better than everyone else?
Ben, who is to say that Joe wasn’t attracted to Robert anyway? I know you’ll launch back into the three guys he dated (that you heard of) weren’t Asian, and of course that’s nonsense – the women I dated in college could hardly be considered “representative” of any “type” and I would hope that one might find attractive someone of a different ethnicity than is the norm.
The conjecture about Joe ‘just’ being a hedonist is hilarious – really, you can’t make this stuff up. So either you do know Joe well enough to have heard him say he wasn’t attracted to Robert, or someone you know repeated this OR you can’t be a critical thinker if W&M degrees come into play. And CD is correct – Ted Bundy went to law school and was charming to those he worked with, was engaged to an attractive woman, yet was indeed a sociopath who raped and murdered many. Joe can be all the characteristics mentioned AND be successful at work AND (from what the evidence suggests) the murderer of Robert Wone.
Bea–we’re looking at the same limited evidence & I see Ward as the murderer. Seems you swallowed the toxic fruit planted by the detectives if you think there was “come to Jesus” snuff scene with electrical toys. I’m afraid it’s going to be much more boring than that. No less tragic, but boring nonetheless. I’m still deconstructing this epic predicament.
Most gay men I know want to have sex with someone who looks just like the person in their mirror, only with bigger equipment. LOL.
Ben
“Much more boring?”
Let me guess….they were playing bridge in the kitchen.
Come one Ben. There is evidence of injections on Robert’s body. That doesn’t sound like bridge to me.
And your remark about “most gay men.” Are you kidding me??? I suppose YOU like men that look like you. (And have bigger equipment….we know what that means.) So you are stereotyping based on what YOU like.
I feel you are unable to be objective.
CD,
We don’t know Wone was injected with anything without more information. Let’s use this opportunity to deconstruct the punctures which the ME never claimed to be “injections.” This subtle distinction is another boot print of MPD creativity in the affidavits.
Were the punctures really pre-motem? (wink & nod opportunity) One of the requirements for scientific findings is being able to document & independently reproduce the result–which is impossible now.
If the punctures were really injections, what kind of kind injections were they? (check as many as apply)
• IM (intramuscular-“into a muscle?)
•SubQ (subcutanaeous “skin pop”)
•IV (intravenous-“into the vein”)
• Acupunture?
• Random?
• Unexplained?
How deep? What gauge?
Was there irritation at the puncture sites?
What substance was injected?
Were the puncture sites sampled?
If all of the answers to all of the questions are not known or credible, why not?
This could be an ace in the hole for the prosecution or the defense.
It’s possible that a dazed zombie was playing with a broken voodoo doll.
Ben
Okay….”puncture marks.”
Ben, it is not the role of the Medical Examienr to solve the crime. It’s is the role of the Medical Examiner evaluate the condition of the body and determine a cause of death.
Ace in the hole? Doubtful. If the existence of injection marks cannot be proven, the prosecution will just move on to other evidence.
And, yes, Ben, the lack of evidence IS evidence.
(PS….we still don’t know evidential results from the destruction of the defendants home….no telling what they will find there.)
CD,
The defendants seem to have reoccupied their house with unescorted, unlimited access in the days between the 6th & 14th of August.
It was the second round of search warrants which authorized the destructive pipe, floor, wall & toy removal, after more than a week of reoccupation by the residents.
Please correct me if I am wrong in my interpretation of these difficult documents.
If I am right–don’t expect much from the evidence found.
Hope I’m not right.
Ben
If they find robert’s blood elsewhere in the house, doesn’t matter if they were unescorted and had unlimited access.
What’s your point?
Ben, are you saying that even more tampering and obstruction occurred when the trouple briefly reoccupied Swann? If so, that would further confirm their collective guilt for both the cover-up and the murder.
CD & Clio–It suggests that the government is trying to “get those guys” with lurid crime scene evidence that is knowingly compromised by their failure to secure the scene. The government here is over-compensating for their incompetence with prejudiced misconduct that will result in miscarriage of justice.
It’s exculpatory on the sexual assault allegations that the defendants didn’t use that week of reoccupation to dispose of the embarrassing toy box.
It suggests that the sexual assault allegations within the affidavits were unanticipated by the defendants–out of the blue–manufactured by police & prosecutorial misconduct.
Bet we don’t hear anything else on the sexual assault subject. As Hoya noted–its already vanished from the most recent prosecution document.
But remember, I may have this all wrong. Maybe the defendants didn’t reoccupy their house on the days between Aug 6 & 14. Please tell me I have this wrong.
Huh? The failure of the trouple to get rid of the toy chest and its tawdry components completely speaks more to arrogance than to innocence. As others have pointed out, the most relevant toys and tools are still missing: play mats, cameras, needles, the murder weapon itself?
The trouple really thought that they could get away with this; they not only anticipated the charges, but Joe in particular tried to blunt them with preemptive, manipulative strikes. Victor, isn’t he our friend, and the real killer wore gloves, indeed!
Now, when exactly did the trouple leave Swann for their first stay at Aunt Marcia’s? I do not know. Editors, please verify. But, even if they reoccupied the house briefly, their presence in the house between August 6 and August 14 still cannot erase the evidence gathered both before and after their return. This evidence, of course, would include the 911 call itself with its allusion to Joe staunching Robert’s wounds with a towel that turned out to be not bloody at all.
Why am I seeing the College of William and Mary in such a different light after Ben’s above comment? Mr. Trammell, say it is not so.
Wish I could talk to Price directly–but he’s all lawyered up. It sure would be an interesting conversation. Maybe at an upcoming W&M alumni event….
Joe Price’s first amendment rights did not end with an indictment and he’s free to talk. Whether he’s willing to is another matter.
Play the W&M card Ben and see what’s what.
Craig,
If he gets in touch with you, give him my e-mail. Seriously.
Ben
Great! I cannot wait to read the transcripts of your interview, Ben.
And, does Joe’s Culuket email address still work? That might be a great “back channel” as well to who Ben has deemed “an alpha male.”
Ben, if Joe is considered “an alpha male,” then this country is in deeper decline than I had thought.
Just like Bea said…you’re like the Night Stalker fans.
Wanting to meet him is just freakish.
Ben’s wanting to meet Joe — a little like Eve wanting to meet Margo in the movie All About Eve — shows the Tribe of W&M alums at their very worst. But, if alleged war criminals Henry Kissinger and Margaret Thatcher can be W&M’s Chancellor, then Joe should be able to meet Ben, if only virtually.
But Bernie’s gag order applies to electronic mail, too, I surmise!
To an earlier post – I don’t recall seeing anything, anywhere that said the housemates were allowed unfettered and unsupervised access to 1509 during the first weeks of the investigation.
But even if they were…I still don’t get why that would be an issue.
If someone murders another person, and the suspect returns home after the murder, and then their house is searched a period of time after they returned home, the evidence found during that search is just good as if the evidence were found the night of the murder. Ben’s logic just doesn’t make sense.
I can’t find where they were living between Aug 6th & 14th. They were going to work on time.
Were they buying new or borrowing old clothes & staying in hotels–or with friends or relatives?
Or were they living “normally” in Swann Street between the first & second searches?
Nobody seems to know for sure. If the scene was not secure at all times it opens the door for police misconduct & casts doubt on anything found in the second search.
Ben,
From what I have read I believe they were living at Aunt Marcia’s during that time, just as they are now.
David
Where did you read it?
I’d like to do some advance thinking on chain of custody for the scene. I remember reading that there was no guard or seal on the scene after working hours between Aug 6 and Aug 14.
Where did you read that?
Really, where did you “read” that?
I wish I could pin point where I read it. I am not sure exactly where, as I have read so much on the case, but when Ben mentioned it that is what I remembered about it. It may have been when the home was being torn up and put together later. I will dig through some articles and see if I can locate it.
David, co-ed
Sorry David, I was asking Ben when I used the in quotes “read,” different question.
“…was no guard or seal on the scene after working hours between Aug 6 and Aug 14.” seems so very specific.
David,
My question was also directed to Ben/Bernie/Joe.
Interesting that this question goes unanswered amongst the multiple posts of Ben.
I’ve been hard on the MPD, ME & EMS in these posts, but I want to say something kind as we approach the solstice. These public servants work hard for our safety with the best intentions. I’ve benefited from their heroic kindness on some of my worst days when I was mugged (twice) in the District.
They know they’ve failed miserably & made stunning mistakes at almost every turn of the Wone investigation. The winks & nods between the departments to “nail those guys” is their way of teaming up to compensate for their inadequacies & failure & to deliver justice for the victim who might otherwise get none due to their mistakes. Understandable.
Ben, I never knew that you lived long enough to be accosted in the District; the capital never should have left Philadelphia.
Anyhoo, what are these “winks and nods” to “nail these guys” for this case? Are they perfunctory kabuki theater done in most criminal sagas, or are they, to you, the real and unique conspiracy here? Or, are they imagined by you to forgive the unforgivable? Despite your mannered denial, you seem to be blaming bungling functionaries to excuse the well-educated, such as your idol of the moment — Mr. Price, of the most egregious offenses known to mankind.
Ben, will your next book be entitled “Joe Price — American Dream, American Nightmare?” Will it be a work of fiction or nonfiction?
Ben Franklin says: “It suggests that the government is trying to “get those guys” with lurid crime scene evidence that is knowingly compromised by their failure to secure the scene.”
Ben, I’m not following you. Are you saying the “government” planted evidence???
Just more silly interference, I suppose.
Why would they plant evidence? The three responsible were all in the house, which contained nearly all of the evidence.
Rather than “trying to get these guys,” the investigation has seemed cautious, methodical, glacial, and, at times, lackadaisical. If the “government” tried to frame the trouple, then they really did a poor job. And that’s a super-sized if. So, Ben, this fantasy of a conspiracy to cover up mistakes made uncovering the real cover-up is not worth a Ben Franklin in billable hours. Next!
Ben Franklin says: “Nobody seems to know for sure. If the scene was not secure at all times it opens the door for police misconduct & casts doubt on anything found in the second search.”
Again….Ben, are you saying the police planted evidcnce?
It chills me that Detective Wagner seems so suspicious of the mingling of straight and “homosexual” men, as if such a gathering should immediately raise red flags. Tonight, I’ll be hosting two gay male friends and my straight brother for a New Year’s Eve get-together, an annual event. God forbid a tragedy should occur during the evening resulting in police presence, would the detective waste time wondering what my brother was doing over here? Would he only assume the attempted seduction of an innocent straight man?
I don’t think anyone should get bunched up over the police questioning that night. The crime scene was VERY suspicious. These trained professionals’ gut instincts were correct. Robert had been sexually assaulted.
It would be different if Robert had fallen down the stairs, was found by his friends who immediately called the police, and THEN the police infer sexual misconduct. What would have led the police to THAT conclusion under THOSE circumstances. In a situation like that, yeah, get indignant.
In this case, not so much…..the police questioning was justified.
By the way….I’m gay.
The line of questioning was appropriate, even if Wagner’s phrasing — “come to Jesus”; “drinking wine” — was “straight” out of gay pulp fiction of the 1950s.
Besides for the reasons that I and others mentioned this summer, Wagner’s “come to Jesus” gaffe was especially tacky because:
(1) Robert was a practicing Christian, so he already had been converted to Jesus.
(2) How is a religious conversion the same as a rape?
(3) How could the trouple “convert” Robert to their sexuality?
Let’s hope that the “cerebral” detective will choose his words, at least the ones released to the press, with more care in the future.
BTW, Happy New Year to all! And, for the residents of 7900 Ariel Way, the countdown continues!
cheers, clio!!!! looking forward to your 2010 posts.