Pretty Vacant
So, we were pulling our January schedules together the other day, and we wanted to make sure the January 15th status hearing was still on. Guess what we noticed?
According to the court calendar, the January 15th status hearing has been “vacated.” Does this mean Weisberg is out, and no we don’t mean out of the closet, even though we know the defense team and Weisberg are BFFs?
Could this mean Judge Leibowitz gets the nod? Inquiring minds want to know.
Checking alternate sources, the 2010 Courtroom Assignment list (published November 18, 2009) that specifies each judge’s division and assignment (civil, criminal, felony 1, felony 2, etc.), Judge Weisberg has been assigned Felony 2, while Judge Leibovitz now has Felony 1. This would indicate that Weisberg is out. We also checked the docket file for Dylan Ward and retrieved this record still showing the January 15th status hearing on the schedule:
Click on image to enlarge.
We also noticed that Ace of Spades defender Tom Connolly has one less defendant in the Blackwater trial. His client, Nicolas Slatten, had the manslaughter charges against him dropped.
Take a read about here:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gew3dv19JkSK3-DtzwDvCn-5g8TAD9C3HO2G0
With these new developments, how can the defense claim Leibowitz would mean a delay in May 2010 trial date, especially if Connolly has more time on his hands to pitch in for his favorite Swann Street house mate, Victor Zaborsky?
Now we suspect Connolly is trying to get daylight between Victor and the other two defendants, he probably won’t be doing anymore heavy lifting than he has to.
If Connolly does NOT pick up the slack, could this signal Victor Zaborsky is running a defense that is separate and distinct, or more simply put, saving HIS little behind, from his roommates’?
There is no “I” in team.
Posted by Craig
I have concluded that far from being BFF with Judge Weisberg the defense team is most deeply and profoundly involved with their wallets and that the whole kerflufle about the judges was naught but a verbose way of making passionate love to those wallets.
Indeed, AnnaZ. They’ll probably file a motion about the weather pretty soon.
yes, it is quite chilly in DC these days. I bet its even colder outside the beltway at auntie’s house. Maybe the boys will soon be able to earn a buck or two shoveling snow to help pay for all these motions.
If John Adams volunteered to defend the British troops involved in the Boston Massacre, then I guess Connolly, Spag, and Schertler can defend Blackwater “contractors,” if they want to. Blackwater or now Xe must still have the deeper pockets vis-a-vis the trouple and their relatives, too. So, if I was a defense lawyer, on which case would I work the hardest?
Editors: What signs leave you to believe that Victor (via Connolly) is beginning to distance himself from the other defendants? Is the trouple going the way of pre-World War I’s Triple Alliance with one of its components switching sides as hostilities commence?
One can hope, but I still can’t see how that would be done while the men were still cohabiting. Is the living situation of these guys monitored in any way (short of harassment and stalking I mean)? Would we even know if Victor took self preservation and common sense to its logical destination and threw Joe and Dylan out?
I have concluded that far from being BFF with Judge Weisberg the defense team is most deeply and profoundly involved with their wallets and that the whole kerflufle about the judges was naught but a verbose way of making passionate love to those wallets.
Indeed, AnnaZ. They’ll probably file a motion about the weather pretty soon.
yes, it is quite chilly in DC these days. I bet its even colder outside the beltway at auntie’s house. Maybe the boys will soon be able to earn a buck or two shoveling snow to help pay for all these motions.
If John Adams volunteered to defend the British troops involved in the Boston Massacre, then I guess Connolly, Spag, and Schertler can defend Blackwater “contractors,” if they want to. Blackwater or now Xe must still have the deeper pockets vis-a-vis the trouple and their relatives, too. So, if I was a defense lawyer, on which case would I work the hardest?
It would be a nice holiday present if indeed Victor was cutting the others loose. Connolly has to be all over him to do so – the defendants interests CAN’T be aligned in this situation in any scenario I can think of (even in Ben’s pipe dreams, Victor would need to cut loose from Dylan). I agree that it seems unlikely if they are all still living together – he’d have to break up with Joe in order to send him down the river.
[But, Victor, you ain’t gonna be together much longer – and if you really didn’t kill Robert Wone (as I believe), you shouldn’t protect Joe and Dylan any longer. Not fair to you, not respectful to Robert’s memory or his loved ones – nothing good comes from it. Ask Connolly if you can ‘walk through’ the facts one more time and have him arrange a deal. You won’t do jail time and you’ll be the honorable one, a decent man caught in a horrific situation who made an initial mistake out of love and loyalty – just don’t let your son think they have a murderer for a father, because even if the charges are never upped from conspiracy to murder, a guilty charge will forever brand you.”
Bea,
If what I posit is true, Ward should step up & take responsibility for the Rx-induced murder & current charges. I & others believe Ward is solely responsible for Wone’s murder–mitigated to some degree by his unfortunate prescriptions.
He’s hired & can afford the best lawyer who could offer-up manslaughter & diminished capacity misdemeanor on the tampering & masterminding the conspiracy. Maybe a 3-5 year sentence, serve 12-18 months, with 6 of those in a community halfway house & home detention. If Ward truly has a meth problem as some have suggested then prison is the best rehab. I don’t consider X a problem, but if he did it a lot it may have contributed to a murderous serotonin imbalance.
Price & Zaborsky have already lost everything covering for him due to their protective parenting instincts. They should earn money & raise their kids & with the help of Dr. Ward, voluntarily set up an annuity for the widow Wone.
This would be a just outcome because none of the conflated, lurid, allegations in the affidavits will ever be charged or lead to convictions if they are charged.
Ben
Oh for Pete’s sake (part 2).
Editors: What signs leave you to believe that Victor (via Connolly) is beginning to distance himself from the other defendants? Is the trouple going the way of pre-World War I’s Triple Alliance with one of its components switching sides as hostilities commence?
One can hope, but I still can’t see how that would be done while the men were still cohabiting. Is the living situation of these guys monitored in any way (short of harassment and stalking I mean)? Would we even know if Victor took self preservation and common sense to its logical destination and threw Joe and Dylan out?
It would be a nice holiday present if indeed Victor was cutting the others loose. Connolly has to be all over him to do so – the defendants interests CAN’T be aligned in this situation in any scenario I can think of (even in Ben’s pipe dreams, Victor would need to cut loose from Dylan). I agree that it seems unlikely if they are all still living together – he’d have to break up with Joe in order to send him down the river.
[But, Victor, you ain’t gonna be together much longer – and if you really didn’t kill Robert Wone (as I believe), you shouldn’t protect Joe and Dylan any longer. Not fair to you, not respectful to Robert’s memory or his loved ones – nothing good comes from it. Ask Connolly if you can ‘walk through’ the facts one more time and have him arrange a deal. You won’t do jail time and you’ll be the honorable one, a decent man caught in a horrific situation who made an initial mistake out of love and loyalty – just don’t let your son think they have a murderer for a father, because even if the charges are never upped from conspiracy to murder, a guilty charge will forever brand you.”
Bea,
If what I posit is true, Ward should step up & take responsibility for the Rx-induced murder & current charges. I & others believe Ward is solely responsible for Wone’s murder–mitigated to some degree by his unfortunate prescriptions.
He’s hired & can afford the best lawyer who could offer-up manslaughter & diminished capacity misdemeanor on the tampering & masterminding the conspiracy. Maybe a 3-5 year sentence, serve 12-18 months, with 6 of those in a community halfway house & home detention. If Ward truly has a meth problem as some have suggested then prison is the best rehab. I don’t consider X a problem, but if he did it a lot it may have contributed to a murderous serotonin imbalance.
Price & Zaborsky have already lost everything covering for him due to their protective parenting instincts. They should earn money & raise their kids & with the help of Dr. Ward, voluntarily set up an annuity for the widow Wone.
This would be a just outcome because none of the conflated, lurid, allegations in the affidavits will ever be charged or lead to convictions if they are charged.
Ben
Oh for Pete’s sake (part 2).
Ditto, AZ! In Ben’s scenario, Joe and Vicki come off as a younger version of Needham and Di beset with the inevitable trouble brought by a mentally ill, prodigal son. Yet even here their parental covering involved tampering and conspiracy, which means, to Ben, they all are guilty of the current charges.
If Ben is correct, then Dyl’s connections may get him a greatly reduced sentence, after which he can set up his very own spa, The Asp’s Nest, in Miami Shores. Joe and Vicki can be his receptionists.
Clio,
Read Price’s statement carefully. Ward fed Price the intruder story: “is the back door open?” making Ward the mastermind of the deception. Price & Zaborsky innocently repeated it hoping it was true.
Ward’s memories of his monstrous murder & clean-up returned hours later (at Cosi eatery?) when the prescriptions wore off & after they all lawyered up. Temporary amnesia is a known side effect.
I hope it’s true.
Ben
Dyl was still being questioned in Anacostia, as other members of the entourage dined at Cosi’s. I wonder if and where Mr. Ward had breakfast that morning: I guess that the previous evening’s events may diminished his appetite. Of course, those events apparently did not stop Joe or Sarah from eating. Vicki, of course, had to go to work; the milk lobby must be a demanding mistress for whom to serve.
In general, based upon the available evidence and analysis, Dyl as mastermind of the cover-up is far less likely than Dyl as murderer. Given Mr. Ward’s unimpressive c.v., he would need intentional help in both roles, however. And, if his amnesia was merely temporary, why has he not “womaned” up to what actually happened?
Confession is the first step to any limited redemption or rehabilitation. Spag needs to make that clear to Sister Dyl, because Brother Joe may beat the diffident massage therapist to the punch.
Clio,
Price left the restaurant to pick Ward up after his interrogation & bring him back to Cosi. You are correct that his appetite was diminished. Ward was “too upset” to join the others remaining in the restaurant & stayed in the car at midday in August. Imagine the hellish heat & the voices in his head without the meds.
The Zombie Ward merely planted the seed of the deception with his statement “is the back door open?”–Price & Zaborsky then repeated & elaborated & conflated the “intruder” theory from it.
Ben
Ditto “for Pete’s sake”. Ben, Joe would have thrown Dylan under the bus long ago if it had been Dyl acting alone. Lose his career? His home? His “place in society”? No way.
Bea,
Price & Zaborsky must be letting Ward’s attorneys define their route before the bus leaves the station. Their patience & sacrifice is a testament to how much they truly care for Ward. He must be an amazing personality & dom & top &c &c.
Ben
Yes, so amazing that he participates in a grizzly murder and coverup.
Amazing, indeed.
Ben, maybe you should cut back a little on your meds. This is nonsense.
Maybe Ben was struck by lightning.
Flying kites, whether literally or figuratively (for the defense), can be treacherous. Ben, take care while experimenting!
I view everything at face value.
Wise men mistrust defense & prosecution & ladies please don’t forget we have an adversarial system of justice riddled with incompetence & prejudice.
I fly one kite at a time so strings don’t tangle.
Ben
But, Ben, very often the justice system prevails and those that belong behind bars go behind bars.
Also, you say you “take things at face value.” Peeshaw. you let your W&M allegiance paint your picture. So silly.
oops…misquote…”view everything”….but you get my point.
CD,
I take it for granted Price could not harm or murder Wone-not just because we all went to W&M–but because since college Price has always been attracted ONLY to men of European descent.
It’s the obvious reason Wone & Price developed a meaningful platonic relationship. Wone felt safe with Price & Price felt safe with Wone without any sexual tension between them.
Ward on the other hand was raised on the Pacific rim & developed Asian business & pleasure connections.
Face value.
Ben
Ben,
There are some big jumps in your logic here. First, how do you know that Joe has ALWAYS been attracted ONLY to men of European descent? I am not attacking your position but that is a bold statement that was just asserted, not proven. How do you know this about Joe? You speak with a rather informed knowledge of Joe’s past that is beyond what is available publicly. Second, why is this the OBVIOUS reason Wone & Price developed a meaningful relationship. Are you saying that the only people Joe could have a meaningful platonic relationship were with men of Asian descent? Could any other reason been paramount in establishing the relationship between Wone and Price?
Finally are you really arguing that beyond Price’s attraction only to men of European descent, that because he attended W&M he could not harm or murder Robert Wone? Could you please explain how this would occur? Is there an oath taken at W&M that prevents harming each other? And even if he didn’t murder Robert Wone, the very fact that as little as 14 minutes to as many as 49 minutes occurred before a phone call was placed after discovering Robert’s body. Do you think that if those 14 minutes up and to 49 minutes had not occurred, which many could arguing were significantly harming Robert Wone’s chances of survival, Robert might have lived? Does that in and of it self violate the W&M code to not harm each other?
I understand we all bring certain blind spots to this case where our logic fails us and emotion gets in the way, and for you it certainly seems to be your love of the College of William and Mary and the fine people who attend this institution. On that note, you certainly know that Victor Zaborsky’s counsel, Thomas Connolly, is a graduate of the Willam and Mary School of Law, so how does that figure into your analysis?
David, co-ed
David,
We don’t “prove” anything here. We look at allegations & make observations based on our experience & what is reported & what we can find out. We don’t have all the facts. Wish we did.
I am within the WMGALA orbit of Price & someone I know is the UVA orbit of Price. I found out the few people Price dated then were all of European descent & in at least one case on a visa from France. Zaborsky is European or Russian. Ward is English or Irish. Desire does not lie but it’s not exculpatory evidence. I’m just looking at its face value.
It’s difficult for me to start & maintain a satisfying platonic relationship with someone who turns me on & think most people under 40 find it so. Simple human nature–the need to breed.
Our shared W&M experience is not a blind spot but a point of clear focus–a “no kill” assumption to test with evolving hypotheses. (BTW–I regret W&M undergraduate, wish I had chosen UVA, but gay boys are steered to pick W&M)
I’ve stated very clearly & painfully what I think happened–Wone was suddenly & unexpectedly stabbed by Ward who was in a prescription antidepressant & hypnotic sedative-induced fugue state. By the time Price & Zaborsky descended from their private quarters Wone was clearly very dead. Ward’s cleaning up & moving Wone is likely what brought P&Z downstairs. The paramedics observed Wone had been dead for an hour before they got there. I take the paramedics observations at face value.
Ward pointed to the back door intruder & Price & Zaborsky wanted to believe & protect him, “he’s our friend, isn’t he?”
Face value.
Keep up the good work.
Ben
Hi Ben,
You get funnier all the time. So how do you explain Ward’s (apparent) attraction to Price since he’s not of Asian descent? And you are certain that Price never had a lover of Asian descent even though you don’t know him but those who did knew “a few” of those he dated in college and none were Asian? And the “facts” at “face value” include Ward’s presumed “fugue” state?
That oath at W&M isn’t worth much if it prevents one alum from trying to save another from bleeding to death (no staunching blood, remember?). Or having the knowledge of a fugue-state-murderer but lying outright to the victim’s widow as he serves as pall bearer. Quite the code you have there.
Bea,
I’m not trying to be funny. And it’s difficult to explain 21st century gay male sexuality & what makes one man attractive to another without offending Victorian sensibilities.
I can give you one personal example.
I’ve got a thing for Baltic men-they really turn me on–I can’t explain why–but I don’t limit myself to them.
The “few” referred to the quantity of men Price was known to date–he didn’t date a lot back then & those he did were all of European descent. Desire & passion do not lie but are not exculpatory.
I take the warnings & cautions of Ward’s prescriptions at face value. I lost a family member on the nearly the same prescriptions to suicide. I’ve witnessed prescription-induced fugue states on trans-oceanic red-eye flights that convince me of its truth.
It is unknown when Ward regained his memories of that night–& when he shared them with the others–or when they figured it out.
Ben
Ben,
I think there are good thoughts here about the affects that medications can cause, but what gives me pause, and we don’t know enough information yet, was if this was the case, and Dylan was in a Zombie state, how was he able to re-tell a story that had been fabricated, and hold up for then 12 hours of questioning including a polygraph test. Is one able to do that while in a Zombie state?
David, co-ed.
Neither the handwritten notes by the police on the scene nor Durham’s statement suggest that Dylan was saying anything at all during the very early stages of the investigation. We don’t know what happened after he was taken in. Perhaps part of the reason that they questioned him for so much longer than the others was that he needed some time to “sober up.”
Polygraph test?
Sorry, my reply got all out of order. But to continue the thought, lacking any information about the results of the polygraph, the fact that he took a polygraph doesn’t seem to indicate anything about whether or not he was under the influence of drugs earlier that night.
This is a good question. What level of functioning can be expected from three prescriptions? The more I read the more I think Lexapro may be as much at fault as the sedative, probably Ambien. For those who are interested there is a nice alphabetized list of side effects for Lexapro here:
Skip to the psychological section or it will take all day.
http://www.theroadback.org/lexapro_side_effects.htm
This drug-abuse-excuse reminds me of a popular song’s lyrics written around the time that Aunt Marcia’s ranch house was built:
“One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small
And the ones that mother gives you
Don’t do anything at all.”
The permissive and affluent society that cultivated both custom-built ranches and Jefferson Airplane also shaped the making of Dylan Ward. It makes one pine for Periclean Athens, despite that city-state’s grueling poverty and inequality!
“Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead,” as the prodigal son who never grew up makes others pay dearly for his problems. But I do find it curious that even Ben wants for Dyl, like the Red Queen of the song: “off with her head!” For Ben’s circle of alums, I guess, sacrificing Mr. Ward exonerates their nostalgia for the Joe and, to a much lesser extent, Victor who they thought they knew. It’s all about preserving their comfy, cozy memories. Their upholding of school ties smacks much more of Machiavellian virtu than it does of classical virtue. Shameful!
Clio–Logic & truth have no shame. Faith means not wanting to know what is true. Sorry if I’ve made people uncomfortable in their long-held assumptions, but no one should be too comfortable here.
I’m not uncomfortable, Ben. Believe me….your “theories” don’t make me uncomfortable. At all. Period. You give yourself too much credit that I (or any of us) actually entertain your theories as possibilities.
Ben, dearest, making the comfortable uncomfortable is what I do for a living, but the “complexities” of this “novel” case — the betrayal, rape, torture, and murder of an unsuspecting friend within the time of two installments of Jersey Shore — make no one comfortable — no one from Di’s friends at the RNC through the citizen pundits of this blog.
Ben is right about the charms of the gentlemen of the formerly “captive nations” — one has not lived unless one has visited Talinn or Riga at least once.
Nevertheless, “types” for urban gay men of a certain age and class are notoriously fluid: usually, it boils down to anyone remotely similar who can put up with them. And, that’s remarkably the same as, the Goddess forbid, women, lesbians, and/or academics, and their choices of partners.
Boy, am I sorry that I fed you the words “fugue state” they will probably end up in Bernie’s brief.
Ben is correct on Joe’s dating a Frenchman in the late 1990s. But how that fact correlates with his analysis is not clear to me.
Is Dylan Scottish? Murders in Scotland are almost always by knife.
Great post, David.
Ben claims he doesn’t know the trio, but he makes statements quite often that would make you think he does know them. And know them quite well.
I so agree with you CD and have made the comment before. Quite undercover Ben…..
I don’t want to get to Ben’s point, but just to comment on your final point, David. Undergraduates at an institution have a shared experience. Law school students have a shared experience. Often, though, the experience of the law school students is very different from the experience of the undergrads at the same university. As an example, I’m about 10 years out of law school and I just (last week) learned that the undergrads at the university where I went to law school have a fight song. I had *no idea* because the law school was quite separate from the rest of the university despite the fact that our building was located right in the middle of the campus. I expect the same may be the case with W&M law/undergrad — or even more so because the law building is separate from the rest of W&M.
Bea appeals to Victor; “You’ll be the honorable one, a decent man caught in a horrific situation.”
Oh please Bea. Victor? A “decent man?”
Bea, do you really imagine that you will one day walk up to Victor and compliment him for being such a a “decent man?”
In my book, decent men (and women) are as decent men (and women) does.
And then Bea says, “(Victor) who made an initial mistake out of love and loyalty.”
Again, oh please Bea! Victor’s three years plus of lies, denials and obstructions were an “initial” mistake?
Knowing you as a long time highly informed and intelligent poster at WMRW, I fail to understand how you can use the words “honorable,” “decent” and “Victor” in one sentence.
I thought Bea’s use of words like “honorable” and “decent” was relative. I.e., a confessing Victor would be a great guy compared to the present specimen. More a prediction of how he would feel about himself than how the rest of us would feel about him.
I saw a touch of irony in her post, maybe a little soft sell too. Maybe my prejudice, as I know her to be extremely informed and intelligent too.
Thanks, Mike. You read correctly. I do want Victor to come forward and still hold out (waning) hope. And, John, if Victor does come forward with the truth even at the 11th hour, he’s a far better man than if he doesn’t – to me. You need not agree.
Bea, at first, I had thought that Aunt Marcia had stolen your screen name and was thinking out loud to herself online, but then again we have come to expect far less from the enabling widow of McLean Hamlet and even less than that from her misguided (and hard-hearted) nephew.
John, relax. The less Victor listens to our pleas, the more he’ll suffer in jail! He must know that, at the very least, he’ll never win another Clio, if he stays “married” to the mob of two. A decent and honorable man: never. A free and semi-employed voter: maybe, but only if he sings. And, he need only turn to this blog for the tune.
Then, is this where the judicial version of Heidi Klum says goodbye to Judge Weisberg? If so, kiss, kiss, and hello to a former prosecutor and friend of Glenn for the final sets of challenges. Remember, defendants: you reap what you sew!
Clio, we now know Judge Weisberg has been “aufed.” Look for an update post later today.
Amazing
How my posts to this site continue to be blocked!
I also suspect that some of the many frequent women, lesbian and/or academic posters at this WMRW site may have a predilection to ignore and/or misunderstand the love that can (sometimes) exist in an open, multi-partner and/or BDSM gay household; and may also not be completely aware – from their personal long term professional experiences — of the ruthless cut-throat exploitive talents that (very often) exist among those high level professionals hoping to climb up, conquer, succeed and dominate among in the corporate advertising/marketing world; and how that extends into their personal relationships.
John, no need to go sexist on us “women, lesbian and/or academic” posters. Not sure why this triad was roped together. My personal experience with multi-partner and BDSM stuff is long behind me, and it never really appealed, but as a partner in a major law firm, on the firm’s management committee, and in dealings with Fortune 500 clients specifically as to “branding” and “marketing”, I think I understand all too well the cut-throat exploitative “talents”. Not really a ‘male only’ club.
John, I can assure you that I can figuratively go “red in tooth and claw” in my professional dealings; going rouge is not just for former governors. The trick is not to bring that witchiness/bearishness home, and Joe, in particular, may not have accomplished that feat.
Now, as for understanding different kinds of love between those with twigs and berries, I confess to not completely comprehending the brutish ways of men. Their irrationality, especially that of the defendants, continues to amaze me.
John, I broke away from my duties in the secretarial pool to make one comment:
::groan::
Oh, no. I hear the boss calling. Gotta go take steno. More later if I can break away again.
For some unknowen reason, my full posts on this thread continue to be blocked. Damned if I can’t figure out which word is preventing my welcome.
I really believe that a number of frequent WMRW posters here have inaccurately concluded that before 8/2, Victor was as pure as milk, and that Joe and Dilweed were as filthy as alt.com, BDSM, sex toys and massages. I reckon that the actual truth concerning the morality of all three of these criminals will eventually be discovered to be somewhere in between all of these assessments.
I also suspect that some of the many frequent women, lesbian and/or academic posters at this WMRW site may have a predilection to ignore and/or misunderstand the love that can (sometimes) exist in an open, multi-partner and/or BDSM gay household; and may also not be completely aware – from their personal long term professional experiences — of the ruthless cut-throat exploitive talents that (very often) exist among those high level professionals hoping to climb up, conquer, succeed and dominate among in the corporate advertising/marketing world; and how that extends into their personal relationships.
Unfortunately, this site now blocks my comment.
Except the none specific, like this one.
Re: Blocked/Unposted Comments: We have been monitoring the Comments Spam and Blocking filters here on WordPress. In the past, the filters have worked well, allowing legitimate posts and blocking spam. Recently, many legitimate posts have been blocked. We have contacted WP Support to try to learn how to alleviate this problem. Our apologies to all. Your comments and support are appreciated and provide valuable insights into this case.
– Michael
Ben, these remarks:
“I take it for granted Price could not harm or murder Wone-not just because we all went to W&M–but because since college Price has always been attracted ONLY to men of European descent.
It’s the obvious reason Wone & Price developed a meaningful platonic relationship. Wone felt safe with Price & Price felt safe with Wone without any sexual tension between them.
Ward on the other hand was raised on the Pacific rim & developed Asian business & pleasure connections.”
Are stupid, and cause me to seriously question whether you could possibly have the education that you claim to have.
People don’t sexually aggress upon and murder other people because they are “attracted to them.” They do it out of rage and spite and a criminally unbalanced need to exert power over others ~ to “show” them something. Joe is the trouple member with the long standing relationship with Robert. Ergo, as the one “closest” to Robert (the one who’s relationship with him was most complex) to my mind Joe is the one most likely to have harbored resentment and rage towards him coupled with inappropriate rumblings about possibly showing squeaky clean Robert a thing or two.
I am sure that that Dylan was a “dom” in job description only, sort of a kept sexual servant, in essence a live-in prostitute utterly dependent and utterly without true authority. Though cases can be made for each man as the primary aggressor in this hideous crime as we have done on various posts on this site I have come to see Joe as the axis of power in that household, the one who had the breath-taking nerve to attend and participate in Robert’s funeral (the astonishing cheek of which amazes me to this day). I think it is very likely that Joe is the primary aggressor and Dylan the pawn, not the other way around. Victor’s role seems to me that of nasty viscous self-serving facilitator, not a pawn but some sort of über henchman (oh no Victor, we have not forgotten about you).
Yes, I know that these are ugly characterizations, but this is an ugly crime. Not only is the murder of Robert an ugly crime but the manipulation of him, the use of his body for sexual gratification and his subsequent treatment as nothing more than a physical impediment to the status quo of the trouple requires our utmost abhorrence. These are not the acts of protective “parent type” figures but the craven and criminal acts of the self-serving and the morally bereft.
Robert may have felt safe around Joe, but he was (most unfortunately) very, very wrong in his perceptions in that regard. I very much doubt that had Robert known of Joe’s drug abuse mixed with out-of-control drinking that he would have been so trusting. The person that Robert befriended so long ago was by that terrible night simply non-existent in my opinion. It is sometimes hard for those who have not encountered it to truly comprehend the soul-destroying nature of real full-blown drug abuse and dependence. People talk about street drugs as ‘party’ drugs, drugs that get you high and you have a little “fun”, but a steady diet of that stuff, mixed with alcohol can create a whole entire new and very different being in a surprisingly short time.
Believe it.
I know.
I have seen it.
AZ,
Our posts crossed. See my reply to David, below.
We disagree. I don’t see Price as a sociopath or psychopath. The only drugs involved that night were Ward’s prescriptions. It was a school night & the stench of enough alcohol to fuel that nightmare would have been apparent to police & paramedics.
Ben
Ben Franklin says: “because since college Price has always been attracted ONLY to men of European descent.”
How the hell do you know, Ben? You claim you do not know Joe Price et al, but that is knowledge that only someone that knows Joe Price on an intimate (and I don’t mean sexual) level would know.
You either know Joe Price or you are full of crap for making blanket statements like that.
And just because you believe that Joe wasn’t attracted to Robert sexually, doesn’t mean that Joe couldn’t kill Robert. Who knows? Maybe in a fit of jealous rage after discovering Dylan assaulting Robert, Joe killed Robert.
Do we have any information about the results of the polygraph?
JAF,
The results of the polygraph have not been released publicly, all we know is that Dylan took one the night of the murder.
David, co-ed.
All agreed.
Ward’s interrogation notes & polygraph results will be very revealing. The paramedics found him unresponsive to questions & sleepwalking back to his room. He was questioned until almost noon on the 3rd. Did he sleep through much it or was he in shock? Did they even get a pulse with the polygraph?
He was “too upset” to eat with the others at Cosi & stayed in the parked car at noon in August in DC. Anybody else find that interesting?
At no time and by no person was Dylan Ward EVER described as “sleep-walking.”
You may be able to pull that kind of intellectually lazy crap on your fellow W&M alumni, but not here.
That was uncalled for, AZ.
How do you figure that Just?
Ward has never been described as “sleep-walking” by anyone, not police, not medical responders. Ben has persistently been trying to make a case for not only Ward’s diminished capacity but Joe and Victor’s (somehow) diminished responsibility based on what I think is a spurious argument, the notion that Ward was in what Ben now calls an Rx fugue. Taking the facts, which are that Ward was uncooperative and detached when the responders arrived and confabulating that into “sleep-walking” is both intellectually lazy and patently false. I felt it was necessary to call him on that.
For the record I will also say that I am unimpressed by his Beach Boys style “be true to your school” self definition and that I agree with others on this site that his ties to the trouple are likely more substantial that that of fellow alumni.
The fact that you are unimpressed by one alumnus allows you to stereotype all alumni, including Robert Wone, as easily succumbing to intellectually lazy crap?
No Just, I was just fucking with Ben specifically because I doubt that he even is a W&M alum, and because he never posts without mentioning it. Me thinks, on that point, he doth protest a bit too much. I recognize that humor (particularly paltry and unfunny humor such as this) does not translate well over the internet ~ my apologies.
As for real W&M alums, Robert and even Joe, that’s a tough school and an impressive credential.
Thanks for clarifying. I’m sorry I missed the humorous intent.
AZ–I love it when you fuck with me! Don’t be too impressed with W&M. Intro to Modern Lit no longer covers Nietzsche & the new focus of the school is to produce merchants.
And the honor code doesn’t mean much.
William and Mary, as Ben may remember from his father’s recollections, were a rather odd couple themselves: William remained childless largely because he spent much more time with his male favorites than with Mary, who predeceased him.
Can honor and integrity stem from an institution (such as W&M) built from slave trading and slave holding? –Maybe, the federal government itself is not so bad.
BTW, will there be an April wedding for Price-Zaborsky, thanks to Mayor Fenty’s embrace of the new marriage law? Who then will be the best man? Will Aunt Marcia give away the bride?
Clio,
W&M was founded to Christianize the natives.
William worshiped his Duke of Portland.
Mary was fully a co-regent & William loved them both.
A three-way that worked!
Maybe it’ll be a Price/Ward wedding.
Billy Idol’s “White Wedding” is swirling through my head.
~~hey, little sister, what have you done?~~
OK, No more lazy. Here’s the exact quote transcribed from the affidavit, page 3, paragraph 2. (Capitalization added by me for emphasis).
“W-1,, an EMS worker for more than ten years,, went up to the second floor,, followed by W-2, and saw a second individual (Ward)) in a bathrobe emerge from a small hallway area adjoining ta bathroom. As Ward approached, W-1 CONFRONTED Ward and DIRECTLY asked him, “what”s going on?” Ward looked at W-1, but did not reply.. Instead Ward walked past W-1 and directly into his bedroom on the second floor”
The EMS worker got up in Wards face and CONFRONTED him DIRECTLY with an excitedly uttered URGENT question. This is elicited only a glance from Ward & he shuffled off to bed. Sounds like sleepwalking to me.
Ben
Ben Franklin says: “The EMS worker got up in Wards face”
You are embellishing, Ben. You have no idea how close the EMT was to Dylan when he “confronted” him.
“excitedly uttered”??? Again, you are embellishing. Nowhere in the affidavit does it say that.
Unless, of course you were there or someone there said that to you.
By the way, Price must have been sleepwalking too.
“I heard a scream,” and said nothing more.
I guess they all sleep-showered together too.
CD,
CONFRONTED DIRECTLY does indeed imply “up in his face.” In a life-saving urgent situation IT IS NOT embellishing to assume the EMS question was excitedly, urgently, uttered. It’s obvious you’ve never been on an EMS ride-along.
And I’m fatigued of all the speculation that I am in any way connected to anyone involved.
Ben
Ben,
Have you thought that Joe could have told Dylan to not speak at all, and he will do all the talking as the reason for Dylan’s silence at this point?
David
David,
Possible–but if Ward was being coached he would have been coached to be “asleep” in his room–not wandering around like a zombie.
Bear with me on this. The reason I’m examining these observations so carefully is that these may be our “moments of truth” before anyone had time to discuss anything. We have the 6 minutes before EMS arrival recorded on the 911 call & nothing was discussed during the call. I just listened to it again & it sounds urgent & authentic.
All Price & Zaborsky may have known at this point is Ward’s enigmatic (groggy) question-suggestion: “is the back door open?” leading them to repeat & conflate the intruder theory after police arrived.
Ben,
I doubt Dylan would have been coached to be asleep in his room. Through all the comotion going on in that “sardine can” of a home, and Ward is supposed to sleep through it all. That sounds very far fetched to me.
Yes, the 911 call sounds authentic, but the facts of the call don’t match up with the evidence (i.e. the bloody towel for instance), which casts doubt on its authenticity.
Finally, from the time of scream, which Victor reported to be his (it may or may not be his), until the time Victor called 911, was between 14 minutes and up to 49 minutes. That gives significant time to create a story.
David
David
“groggy” …… again…embellishing.
Thanks David,
2100+ square feet on three levels-excluding the roof deck–is not a “sardine can” where I come from. It’s more than 50 feet deep and 25 feet wide. I don’t know why a city house like that continues to be characterized as a sardine can unless it’s being compared it to a mansion. It’s certainly comparable to its neighbors.
The lack of blood on the towel is consistent with Wone being dead for a long time & having been killed elsewhere, perhaps in the shower.
Finally–you are right–14 minutes is enough time to create a story. Not a good story, but a story.
Ben
Ben, 1509 Swann Street is “a sardine can” by modern, if not eighteenth-century colonial, standards. Its parlor, kitchen, and stairways seem especially cramped, even if its latest makeover makes it seem more spacious and grand than the Victorian walk-up that it actually is. Aunt Marcia has more square feet in McLean Hamlet!
Ben,
Please explain – there does not seem to be a consistent thread to your posts. Just one example: You say the 911 call sounds “urgent and authentic” then say that there is no bloody towel because Ward was “dead for a long time” and had already bled out. The 911 call contains an elaborate routine in which the trouple are trying to minister to an injured and BLEEDING friend (hence the towel in the first place). Which is it?
Ben – 1509 is not a 25′ wide townhouse. Maybe 16 or 17 feet across. The Swann homes on that block while expensive, are very cozy.
I’m guessing the 2100 sf is spread across the four levels (which includes Ms. Morgan’s unit).
The open floor plan we’ve been told by those who know the home well, allows for sounds to travel up and down the stairwell, making privacy very challenging.
Nora, I think Ben is our new devil’s advocate. He’s going to throw out whatever argument he can against whatever evidence there is. Whether it is logical or not.
One shows up every few months. Then they go away. Maybe they get tired of a losing battle. Much like the defendants’ battle. Losing.
There are some real problems with the timing of the scream.
W-3 is identified a the neighbor next door who heard the scream.
W-2 recalled the news program anchor and is not identified.
Who is W-2?
How did the police put together the two witnesses observations: W-3 & W-2?
See verbatim transcript of the affidavid, page 7 & 8:
“The police interviewed W-3, an occupant of a home adjacent to 1509 Swann Street. W-3 related that on the night of the murder It was in room that shares a wall with the guestroom in which Mr. Wone was found. While the 11:00 p.m. news was being broadcast, W-3 heard a single scream come from the area of the guest room of 1509 Swann Street. At the time of the scream, W-2 recalled that Maureen Bunion, the news anchor for the 11:00 p.m. Channel 9 News was on Television. Accordingly, W-3 heard the scream between 11:00 and no later than 11:30 p.m. (the 11:00 p.m. news broadcast is 30 minutes in length). Significantly, Zaborsky did not place the 9-1-1 call until 11:49 p.m.”
Any number of screams from a at least 4 people could have been heard and NOT heard throughout that evening. Basing any critical timing on a single scream that was heard by an unidentified witness is very, very weak. Or sloppy.
Ben,
I believe that W-2 in reference to the scream is a typo in the affidavit. They clearly note earlier in the affidavit that W-1 and W-2 are the EMT’s, and there is no way the w-2 as an EMT could have been there before the phone call. There are other typos in affidavit, and I believe this is one of them. W-3 is the next door neighbor who heard the scream.
David
Typos are forgivable but flawed logic is not when so much rides on it.
Let’s say Zaborsky screamed at 11:48 before he called 9-1-1 & no one heard it except Price & Ward–that could not be disputed by any witness.
Let’s say the scream the neighbor (W3) heard between 11 & 11:30 was Ward’s scream*–and it was not heard by Price or Zaborsky–that could not be disputed.
Is every scream heard by everyone through brick walls when the TV’s on?
Please find flaws in this logic or another conflated allegation bites the dust.
*Emotional Liability-Lexapro side effect look it up:
http://www.theroadback.org/lexapro_side_effects.htm
Ben says: “Any number of screams from a at least 4 people could have been heard and NOT heard throughout that evening. ”
It is what it is, Ben. Only one scream was heard. Only one scream will be discussed during the trial.
Oh for Pete’s sake (part 3).
Yes Ben, and there also could have been tap-dancing (not heard), relevance?
As CD says, there is one scream on the record and that scream is the one that will be discussed at trial.
And that one scream was, as far as we know from the available evidence, Zaborsky’s. And it happened well before 1148pm.
Craig, Only one scream was heard.
How many screams were NOT heard through brick walls & floors with the TV on?
The one heard scream is a very weak foundation for felony charges & a $20,000,000 civil suit. Even a budget lawyer could beat it.
Ben,
As CD says one scream was heard, and it is strong enough evidence in a felony trial. Remember circumstantial evidence is weighed evenly with physical evidence.
Secondly, unless Victor gets up on the stand, which he won’t do, and contradicts that it was his scream that was heard, that scream will be tied to Victor upon finding Robert’s body.
David
David,
Zaborsky could testify that his scream was seconds before his 911 call. If it is true, he will take the stand to clarify this important matter once & for all. Roll 9-1-1 tape…
Ben
Ben,
And tell me, what defense lawyer worth their salt, let alone a million dollars, will let their client take the stand and be cross examined by the prosecution?
I highly doubt it than any of the defendants will take the stand, although Bea firmly believes that Joe won’t be able to stay away.
David
Bernie Grimm MAY be able to convince Joe that it’s not in his interest, but Joe will want to do so – and in reading today’s post, and the underlying motion, it seems the prosecution may be engaging in an interesting theory, namely to ‘suggest’ that the ‘unknown intruder’ was Michael Price. Hey, the prosecution doesn’t need to prove WHO killed Robert in this case, so why not tickle the fancy, let the jury believe that if these three jackasses DIDN’T kill Robert then why not the useless idiot brother of Joe who later the same year burglarized the place? Will Joe be pissed enough to have a narcissistic need to respond? Methinks quite possibly.
Even if Michael Price did not kill Robert Wone (and I don’t think he did), it’s quite an interesting way to get the defendants’ goats, that they were conspiring to protect the wayward Michael – and in doing so, either get the conviction or possibly force someone to ‘break’ – maybe even the hapless Michael? Interesting strategy!
Argh – was intended to be a reply to David’s earlier post where me mentions that none of the defendants will testify tho nods to me that I think narcissist Joe will do so against his own better judgment (as an attorney).
There’s not a snowflake’s chance in hell Zaborsky takes the stand. If he had screamed right before making the 9-1-1 call, why wasn’t THAT one heard by the 1509 neighbor (W-3) who placed hearing a scream much earlier (before 1130pm)?
If W-3 heard a scream through 8-10 inches of brick, what the hell is Ward’s excuse for not hearing it from 15 feet away? That doesn’t wash with what we know about the house and timeline.
Collectively, the threesome heard door chimes, a door latched, showers, “… a kind of low scream… breathy grunts… a series of three ‘grunts,’ ” yet no sounds whatsoever of an “intruder” breaking in, traversing the house, killing their friend, allegedly cleaning up and beating a hasty retreat.
Ben – You may be trying to jam a round peg into a square hole.
Craig,
I don’t view anything collectively. I fly one kite at a time.
Zaborsky has such a soft little voice. You heard the tape. The 911 operator thought he a was a woman. Only dogs could hear his scream.
The scream that was heard by W3 before 11:30 was Wone or Ward, but was not heard by Price & Zaborsky.
Acoustics will play a critical role in this case. The scene will probably need to be revisited by professionals & the jury from both sides of the wall.
Works with the time line.
Ben,
Thanks much for the continuing contributions. We’re all working to keep open minds and learn the truth.
But I must say, this ‘scream’ argument seems labored.
Soft voice? Perhaps speaking. But have you never heard a soft-voiced person shriek? Potentially ear-splitting.
Second, Zaborsky will never take the stand, nor will Price or Ward. You must know this is basic, ground-level defense. Once on the stand, the possibility for opening up any topic explodes.
Third, how can you be so certain of who heard the scream? I wrote my thesis in psycho-acoustics, so know a thing or two about it, and find your assertion oddly without support.
Last, nothing works with the time line. If you can demonstrate how I’m wrong – from 10:30 to 11:49, please do so.
Again, thanks for your vigor and thoughts.
-Doug, co-editor
Craig–The defense will need to address the scream(s). As you know acoustics are tricky–especially when “witnessed” from different buildings & floors & through walls, with the TV on!
A scream was heard between 11 & 11:30 BUT WE DON’T KNOW WHO screamed. I may be safe to assume there was more than one scream that night, but only one was heard.
I am of course playing devils advocate as CD observed. Labored? Yes.
Thanks, Ben, for your contrarian insights, but, if just one scream was heard, why were the other noises heard by the defendants so select in fitting the official intruder theory? No one heard the intruder leave; no one heard him mop up, and he left no tracks down the stairs. I only wish that my staff could be so quiet and nimble.
I would call that “speculation,” not “safe assumption.” Do not attempt to play semantic games with the facts. It won’t fly here.
Oh, and shouting in all caps doesn’t make that less of a speculation, but more of one.
Ben says: “I don’t view anything collectively.”
You need to take the evidence as a whole, Ben. You can’t pick and choose what evidence fits your theory and toss the other pieces out.
Ben, the scream was heard between 11-1130. The 911 call was at 1150 something. That is not seconds apart. This is hard evidence.
Not to mention, the neighbor said Maureen Bunyon was on when he heard the scream.
The prosecution and/or defense can pull that broadcast and determine exactly when MB was on screen.
Ben, again, you are embellishing AND assuming. You do not know how the EMTs behaved.
And I would believe that experienced EMTs would not act in an “excited” manner.
You are peppering your statements with speculation and touting those statements as truth.
In that vein, can you not see why someone would wonder if you are personally connected to the defendants? You set yourself up for the questioning.
CD–I love the pepper! Healthier than the foul “snuff” that many here seem to like. Ben
Ben, you once rebelled to uphold inevitable truths; now, you are just rebelling against the truth, I am afraid.
If Dyl had been solely responsible for the murder and the cover-up, then he would have been “betrayed” by his surrogate parents by now.
Clio, the 14 minutes is indeed a difficult gap –anchored on one side by a neighbor’s TV set and the other by the 911 call.
I think someone should get a bus ticket to sunny Florida for Christmas. Do I hear the angels singing?
Dyl traveling stag on a Greyhound without any handlers: now that’s a scary thought.
Ben, go back to the charging affidavit. Ward gave a statement with many details during interrogation that night – unlikely he was in a ‘fugue’ state.
Yes, in fact it was Dylan who brought up the spider on lamp story during questioning, at least as it is portrayed in the affidavit. That is a remarkable detail to remember for a Zombie-like state.
Ben, the record states that none of them were particularly forthcoming with the 1st responders (EMTs – not police officers). Joe’s comments were “we heard a scream” and nothing more. Victor was blubbering on the front porch and Dylan was coming out of the bathroom and returning to his room.
“Is Dylan Scottish? Murders in Scotland are almost always by knife.”
That pretty much sums up the level of thought on this blog.
And the drug part might fit in with the Highlander genetic inheritance…
AIS, I was just trying to be funny with that throw-away line, reacting to Ben’s eighteenth-century ethnic determinism. But, I see that it did not make you laugh. My apologies! XO, Clio.
Connolly. Zaborsky is the only one who can clarify this critical issue. Both are proven & honorable performers.
Wait … what?
I can’t even tell what you are trying to say here.
Who is “proven and honorable?”
Not Victor surely?
Surely you jest.
LOL! Ben’s key word is performers, AZ. All the world is indeed a stage — yet another Shakespeare reference comes to mind. It is no wonder, then, that Dyl was reading that particular New Yorker article on that fateful evening.