Backseat Striver
Ordinarily it takes about 20 minutes by car to get from Swann Street to Anacostia. Faster depending on the traffic, if not made during one of DC’s paralytic rush hours, faster still if no stops are made along the way.
In any event, it’s not a trip that very many denizens of Dupont Circle make that often.
But in early morning hours of August 3, 2006 Joe Price made the trip from his home to the Violent Crime Branch at 3220 Pennsylvania Ave., SE while in the back of an MPD squad car.
It must have been a memorable ride for Price, just moments after his friend of 15 years was brutally slain, mere feet from where he was allegedly sleeping. But he appeared to have made the best of the trip.
As we learned last week, the statement from the first officer on the scene, Diane Durham, reported that Price did all the talking when she arrived.
In the back of that MPD cruiser, a Crown Vic, Price was still rather chatty.
Accompanying Price was the MPD’s Jeffrey Folts. A veteran of the force, Folts was MPD’s lead Detective on a case that convicted a District man of first degree sexual abuse, kidnapping and threats against two teenage girls. His work on that case was commended in this DoJ press release.
Detective Folt’s notes from that evening are a brief single page that cover a wide variety of topics, reflecting what was top-of-mind with Price: His parents were in the Navy, he’d lived on Constitution Avenue, worked out at Results Gym, and had a downstairs tenant (Sarah Morgan).
Price seemed to be making small talk asking Folts how long he’d been with the MPD. But then the conversation finally turned to the topic of the evening; Price asked Folts if his friend was dead.
Price asked if they were going to HQ. Folts said yes. “Homicide?” Price asked. Yes. He then told Folts that he was a white collar defense attorney.
A true Washingtonian, Folts was either running through his mental Rolodex or just name dropping when he asked Price if he knew Bernie Grimm. Yes. Of course Joe did. Why he didn’t call Bernie then and there remains a mystery.
When Folts showed up at 1509 Swann, departed and arrived with Price at the VCB is unclear; messy hand writing may say 0145. This gap of two hours between the murder and an arrival at HQ raises more questions.
We’ll try and do the math based on the timelines and take into account the one stop they made on the way – at the 7-11 at 14th and Rhode Island Avenue. Mmmm… Donuts!
-Craig
Joe did say, “I cannot believe that someone would walk into the house.” Neither apparently did (or does) anyone else! He also asked,”what was going on with the house?” Did “house” refer to the other male residents, or did it simply mean the actual building?
Also, did Joe’s curious choice of topics reflect an anxious gay man trying to court favor with a straight man? I’m cool, really I am: my parents are in the military, I work out, and I have a female tenant. Yikes!
Does the detective smoke? Are cigarettes the reason that they stopped at the convenience store? Or, maybe they stopped for gas? Or, coffee? At any rate, the stop does seems rather lackadaisical, but I may be judging this routine too harshly.
Oops! Typo: last line should read — “… does seem” instead of ” … does seems.”
Joe did say, “I cannot believe that someone would walk into the house.” Neither apparently did (or does) anyone else! He also asked,”what was going on with the house?” Did “house” refer to the other male residents, or did it simply mean the actual building?
Also, did Joe’s curious choice of topics reflect an anxious gay man trying to court favor with a straight man? I’m cool, really I am: my parents are in the military, I work out, and I have a female tenant. Yikes!
Does the detective smoke? Are cigarettes the reason that they stopped at the convenience store? Or, maybe they stopped for gas? Or, coffee? At any rate, the stop does seems rather lackadaisical, but I may be judging this routine too harshly.
Oops! Typo: last line should read — “… does seem” instead of ” … does seems.”
Clio, how do we know Folts is straight?
We obviously do not know. But Joe’s strange array of subjects — military parents, working out, and female tenant — leads me to believe that Joe may have assumed that the Detective was straight and that Joe thought that he needed to be as close to “straight-acting” as possible to avoid undue suspicion (to avoid going from witness to defendant that night.) Unfortunately for Mr. Price, as always, he may have overdone it! As he delineated parts of his official bio, little concern for Robert is expressed, and that, as others have noted, is a semi-smoking gun.
Maybe Joe was hitting on him. LOL I work at “Results”
Darn my –wink wink– didn’t make in it.
LOL! CD, that distant, if distinct, possibility had occurred to me as well, but Joe would have had to know that most police officials would not know off-hand about the demographics of “Results.” I do not think that even Joe’s exaggerated sense of self would extend to flirting with a male detective, but then again this is the same person who just hours before was parading/holding court before Officers Durham and Hampton in bikini briefs.
Clio and CD,
But, also look at it another way. Results on 16th street has a very gay clientele. He drops that name to see if he gets a reaction. Instead of a hitting on him, but rather already putting in place his anti-gay defense. If the cop reacted negatively, he would use that. Remember, the defendants have claimed that the investigation has been “bigoted.”
David, co-ed.
Very good point, David.
It’s a totally oddball topic of conversation. Had to be a reason to bring it up.
Thanks, David. That is an different lense to look at these seemingly disparate bits of conversational flotsam.
Even when Joe briefly mentioned Robert in the car, he apparently could not stop referring to himself, as others have pointed out. Equally off-putting as the Results plug is, to this reader today, the information about his car being broken into yet him never being a victim (before?). As if he wanted the center stage of victim: Robert by dying was taking the klieg lights of tragedy away from him. Yet, for Mr. Price, none of these officers so far took his bait; none of them seemed prejudiced, by their notes, against him in any unconscious or routine way. On the contrary, Durham showed sisterly concern by telling him to put on some clothes; the detective indirectly told him to get help by bringing up the name of Grimm.
Before that, of course, Joe’s boasting about the value of 1509 Swann, and, then, at the end, before powdering his nose (not literally, let’s hope) in the bathroom at headquarters, he asks about “the house.” What priority must real estate have had (and still may have) in Joe’s sense of well-being!
His questions and statements about Robert, as recorded by the detective, are, of course, particularly mystifying. Was he trying to say (correctly, as it turns out) that Robert was an old friend yet not a special friend (a Southern euphemism for consensual sexual partner) with his sparse, terse mentions? So, in hopes of making that distinction, he lied about not knowing that Robert was dead. Bizarre.
Craig reports: “Price asked Folts if his friend was dead”
What does this even mean? I thought that at that point there was no doubt that Wone had been stabbed and was dead.
Joe allegedly provided first-aid by holding the towel(s) on Robert’s chest according to the affidavit and 9-11 call. How could he not have known Robert’s condition? It just doesn’t add up.
Maybe this was Joe’s way of again trying to distance himself from the situation. Joe could be thinking that if he doesn’t know what state Robert is in, how could he have been involved in murdering him. By asking this question he looks less culpable.
I also seem to recall from the affidavit that the first-responding medics at 1509 took Wone’s pulse and determined that he was dead. JP’s statement definitely does not add up.
And from all reports, Robert’s body was taken out in a zipped up body bag, which would indicate that victim was deceased.
I thought I remembered Joe telling Katherine to meet them at GW hospital, no? I always assumed Robert died at the hospital, but did he actually die at the house?
He told her to go to GWU hospital. Robert Wone was not officially pronounced dead until 12:24am at the hospital, but it sounds like he already dead by the time EMTs got to the house.
According to the Affidavit, Robert died at the house but for whatever reason they did not formally call the death until at the hospital. Joe did tell Katherine to go to the hospital.
I’m not sure whether his statements suggesting Robert might still be alive were due to denial, drug confusion or just simply all part of the act.
I reread the Affidavit yesterday. I was struck anew with how bizarre it all was. Picture Joe sitting on the bed in his tighty whities just staring at Robert’s dead body when the EMT’s entered the room. He was not crying or touching Robert. And, of course, there were no towels in the room that could have been used to staunch the bleeding despite the 911’s direction to do so and despite Victor’s statement that his partner was doing just that.
Victor may have had nothing to do with the actual murder but his outright lie to the 911 operator fully implicates him in the coverup. At one point in the call he is clearly back on the same floor as Joe and the Robert.
An EMT doesn’t have the official authority to make a death pronouncement. Only physicians, coroners or medical examiner’s may do that. So the official time of death will only be when an authorized person examines the body.
EMT statement in the affidavit (page 2) says Robert “…appeared to have been dead for some period of time.”
Joe’s squad car remark really does not add up.
Like I said yesterday, maybe some lingering effects of some sort of drug kept Joe from focusing and remember. There are drugs that cause detachment.
Unless, he was out and out manipulating the situation (which is not unlikely).
From a psychological perspective, it’s well known that when someone refers to someone they know or don’t know in a term other than their name, that it’s a way to remain emotionally distant. When he was asking about Dylan when Dylan was being questioned, he had no problem referring to him by name……It feels sad to say this, but we sort of all assumed RW was a friend of Joe’s and we have been having difficulty with how could he do this to his “friend.” Very possible that JP never ever really thought of RW as a friend – or using the term “friend” afterwards was a way to distance himself from the emotional connection – but I really don’t think the latter.
I also don’t agree Durham was showing “sisterly concern” when she told JP to put his pants on – I’ve seen that statement made in much more derogatory terms…..and it doesn’t really fit with how bizarre she was already thinking the situation was. In addition, I don’t think Folts mentioned Grimm to sort of advise JP to get a lawyer – I think he was trying to see to what extent JP was a white collar defense atty. (or kind of how big of a big wig they were dealing with) (b/c all white collar defense attys. would all prob. know Grimm).
Perplexed, re your comment about JP never really thought of RW as a friend….
Narcissists, very often, have a sense of self-loathing. Insecurity. Robert seems so directed and happy with his life. Maybe Joe, deep down inside, disliked that in Robert. Jealousy. And the jealousy Joe felt translated to hatrid and violence in the circumstances of August 2nd.
Yeah, I would tend to agree that’s possible what was going on with JP…..but RW was not considered by JP as being in his circle of friends I’m pretty sure by his strange way he couched his question about RW being dead, etc. and not referring to him by name – kind of like “the intruder” – “my friend”…….sorry….it’s just sort of sounding very familiar – very vacant….
I would imagine Joe had multiple “circles of friends.” He was quite the chameleon. Probably a bit compartmentalized. I imagine his main circle of friends were his sexcapades friends. But you figure he had work and college associates that knew nothing about his private life (or his private private life).
CD – The friends in the trouple’s social circle we’ve chatted had no idea whatsoever about the extent of Joe and Dylan’s sexual relationship.
Featured here in May.
I can imagine, Craig. SOME things are better left in the dark.
Amen to that. Those are some porn shots I never want to see.
Craig reports: “Price asked Folts if his friend was dead”
What does this even mean? I thought that at that point there was no doubt that Wone had been stabbed and was dead.
He can’t believe someone walked into the house? How ’bout I can’t believe my friend is dead?????
This harkens back to narcisism, it’s not about Robert, it’s about him. “Me me me” in the back seat of the car. I work out at Results, I’m this, my parents are that, oh how’s Robert?
Joe Price sickens me.
And just to be catty because I’m so blistered by his callousness, OBVIOUSLY he’s not working out at Results anymore.
Yeah, no crying and carrying on about his friend who has just been stabbed to death in his home! What a narcissist, among other things!
Joe attempting to make chit-chat with a homicide detective would be the stuff of humor were it not for the absolute seriousness of the situation then and now. What a colossal ass the man is. Presumably Flots’ “there is something very wrong here” radar was pinging like crazy.
As others have stated, if Joe was holding a towel to Robert’s wounds (which he obviously wasn’t and makes yet another changed version of events on both his and Victor’s parts) he would undoubtedly know that Robert was dead and had been for some time. To those who have not experienced it, the sensation of being in the presence of someone who is dead is visceral and unmistakable, no amount of being obtuse, hopeful or even self centered could obscure it.
Joe’s calculations will bring him down one way or another of that I am becoming increasingly confident.
AnnaZed, you are right. A person’s entire presence changes the instant s/he dies. In the blink of an eye s/he palpably becomes an object. Impossible to describe how silent, frozen, blank s/he suddenly is. There is no mistakening it, no matter how high you may be.
Indeed, Mike. If you’ve ever looked at a newly dead body, which many of us have, “the absence of life” is unmistakable.
The coincidence of that the officer bringing up Bernie Grimm seems odd to me.
What relationship does that officer have with Bernie Grimm?
and what continued involvedment in this case does that officer have?
If that officer knows Bernie Grimm enough to mention him casually while driving a potential suspect to the Homicide division, I would hope the officer’s contact with the case would be limited.
Is there such a thing as a Chinese Wall in the police department?
And if so, did they implement it?
Chinese Wall? ‘splain, Lucy …
From Wikipedia: In business, a Chinese wall or firewall is an information barrier implemented within a firm to separate and isolate persons who make investment decisions from persons who are privy to undisclosed material information which may influence those decisions. This is a way of avoiding conflict of interest problems.
You know, I try, really try, not to be paranoid, but I sometimes wonder about all of the astonishing gaffs and screw-ups on this case (most particularly the Ashley’s Reagent fuck-up) and my mind sometimes drifts into some sort of conspiracy territory like someone getting paid off, but that’s impossible, that’s crazy, that’s paranoid ~ right?
Yes.
Thanks, I need to get a grip on myself I am sure though the alternative, that the MPD is so bungling and scarcely competent, does not console me much.
Personally, I wouldn’t exclude the possibility. Maybe not a 007 spy conspiracy or anthing like that, but favors for a friend. Sure.
I’ve got a feeling Bernie might be tight with a lot of MPD officials. He’s been in the game for 20+ years and probably has a DC Rolodex a mile wide and deep.
A post from May, “Court Jester” has a picture from the Washington Post that may speak to his closeness with the DC Police.
Too, the cop asking about Bernie Grimm may have to do with Bernie being a ‘celebrity’ on Greta’s show (or used to be – don’t know currently).
What is chilling to me about the discussion is that Joe says “homicide?” and that seems to indicate that he’s intrigued by the cat-and-mouse of it. He’s showing off, as if to say “no big deal”. And that Robert being dead means only that the “case” is a “homicide” – not that his friend is DEAD. His chatter suggests that he’s like a guy with a sore tooth – it hurts but he just can’t help playing with it.
Good point, Bea.
Let me rephrase my thought. I guess it’s not odd to ask. And it’s not odd that Joe knew Bernie Grimm at that time. That’s not odd.
But this coincidence makes me question things as they went forward. What happened after that. How involved was/is that officer in the case?
Chinese Walls are a serious issue in law firms. Serious enough to institute policies regarding them. If there is the potential for missteps in a law firm that would require a Chinese Wall, certainly there are missteps in other institutions that SHOULD require them.
I would still like to know what the officer’s relationship to Bernie Grimm is.
Considering the outrageous errors made in this case, it’s hard to believe the MPD is that bumbling.
Hey CD, you may be right (our firm got more PC lately and now calls them “ethical walls), and I wish I knew if police departments used them. Still, without knowing more, I’m guessing that he might have been trying to put Joe in his place by mentioning Bernie OR it may have been a name dropping thing to keep Joe talking. Cops LOVE it when the guy in the back seat jabbers away. And it seems that Joe was proving the point that lawyers who represent themselves have fools for clients. “Homicide?” would make me laugh if not so very sad (as Clio or AnnaZ said before).
I believe the bar exam today simply refers to walls as being “screened” or “screening.”
Heard of that too – maybe it’s California where they’re “ethical walls”.
“Ethical walls” seem to have been designed to contain the influence of someone just like Bernie, a modern-day Clarence Darrow with a flair for the popular imagination.
A man who (reportedly) once danced shirtless at a St. Croix bar is now representing underwear guy: how did Detective Folts know that Joe and Bernie would be perfect for each other?
Clio,
I am not sure I buy that Bernie Grimm is a modern day Clarence Darrow. For one, Bernie Grimm is a very stylish dresser, you might even say he is dapper, and Clarence Darrow’s appearance was not his strongest selling point, he usually wore wrinkled shirts and baggy pants, you might call him slovenly. And I don’t know if Grimm’s criminal theory was determinist the way Darrow’s was. Both, though, certainly are regarded as among the best criminal defense attorneys of their day.
David, co-ed.
Points well-taken, David. I guess, in the pre-television era, excellent lawyers (such as Darrow or the dignified Morefield Storey)did not have to play the dandy (or to draw as much attention to themselves) in order to be effective. Then again, in the early nineteenth century, red-haired and short Martin Van Buren was also extremely fastidious about his appearance. Go figure!
Exactly, AnnaZed. After an old friend had just been killed in my house and presumably in my arms, Sarah the tenant would not be foremost on my mind, unless I wanted to cater to a presumably heterosexual policeman and/or I had dispatched her away with all of the really bad, incriminating stuff. And, I do think that Folts’ BS detector must have gone off repeatedly in the Crown Vic; the detective’s raising of the name of Grimm probably was his way of saying to Joe that, despite your current posture of nonchalant confidence, you’re going to need that notorious defense attorney!
More Questions to Ponder: Why was there a two hour gap between the murder and Joe’s ride in the Crown Vic to HQ? Did Mr. Price need that long to freshen up and to select an outfit to complement his skimpy “sleepwear?” Did he actually go to the GW hospital and then back to Swann and then on to the unfamiliar (to him) territory of Anacostia?
meanwhile, in the back of another squad car, police likely noted “the suspect didn’t say a word and showed no emotion; he just stared out the window blankly, as if no one was home in side. though he initially looked very youthful, every now and now the light would catch his face, revealing every year and more of his rocky and unremarkable life”.
meanwhile, in the back of a third cop car, it was likely noted “M’aam cried in hysterics the entire trip to police headquarters. every now and then, he blurted out something about the door chime and would then continue with the out of control tears”.
“meanwhile, police noted that the basement resident was likely at krispy kreme.”
i suspect i am not too far off, no?
Hilarious, SDI.
reality can often be more humorous than fiction. i suspect much of what i wrote could be all too true.
Para. 3 is what got me. Para. 2, albeit amusing the way you put it, was probably spot on. Para. 1….he probably aged 10 years on the spot.
Reality can be far more shocking and disturbing than fiction too.
I’m still trying to wrap my arms around the donut run. I have no doubt that Det. Folts is a capable and committed investigator, but this little sidetrip that night was a sign of things to come. No hurry and no sense of urgency in tracking down the killer(s).
It is possible that the course of this conversation and its frame may indicate that Flots was pretty sure that he had one of his perpetrators right there in the car with him.
Perhaps Flots thought that treating the conversation as a sort of jocular man to man criminal justice business conversation between peers (“Hey, do you know Bernie Grimm?”) would loosen Joe up and cause him to make mistakes. “Hey, let’s stop here and get some doughnuts,” was maybe designed to defuse any sense of urgency to the business of getting to the tiny interview room with the tape recorder and getting down to specifics. Do you think that they got out of the car and went up to the counter together? “Hey, look you’re not under arrest. You can leave at any time.” Perhaps he thought his best strategy was to let Joe just prattle on and he did. I have wondered why Joe and company allowed themselves to be interviewed at length with no counsel present. Maybe Flots put him at ease. maybe Joe thought Flots was a fool (he seems to think everyone else is) and maybe Flots was playing the fool like a fox.
They say that most criminals are caught because of stupid mistakes and lies. Joe has so far been revealed to us to be telling multiple lies in a very short time frame so maybe Flots’ strategy (if this was his strategy) was sound.
Hopefully the police and the US Attorneys can parse this sequence of conversations for what they were; a series of adjustments to Joe’s prevarications and versions of events. Joe’s mendacity is breathtaking and breathtaking too is his hubris in thinking himself in a position to condescend to the Detective. Maybe Joe made a series of profound miscalculations, tripping himself up in his own colossal arrogance. One can hope so.
Good post, AnnaZ. I think you’re right.
Not to mention, Joe’s callousness in the squad car shows his lack of, in the very least, sorrow, that his dear longtime friend was murdered in his own home. I can’t imagine this won’t come up at trial.
Exactly. DID DEFENDANT PRICE SEEM UPSET THAT HIS FRIEND WAS DEAD? “No, actually, he said that what he couldn’t believe was that someone had broken into his home, that he’d never been a victim except for having his car broken into.” ANYTHING ELSE? “He complained that he’d bought his house at the top of the market. Oh, and he informed me that he works out at Results gym.”
Bea, put that way this conversation goes back into the realm of comedy and even the real-life seriousness of the situation and this site doesn’t completely keep me from laughing at him. He’s such an ass. In addition to the obvious, being sorry about Robert’s death and the horrible circumstances of it, I am sorry that a person who was by all accounts so sincere and generous of spirit was taken in by such a shallow, boring prick and thought that person, Joe, was his friend.
Agreed, AnnaZ. I wonder what drew people to Joe. He seems like a bag of hot air to me, and not a pretty one.
My personal opinion here – freshman year of college is a pretty formative year for people. I myself will always remember my freshman peer advisor (even if I didn’t keep in touch with her as RW did with JP). Here it seems that JP had informally taken a mentor role with RW that lasted through the years. It does not surprise me that RW might have looked up to JP and considered him a close friend.
In my experience with the Dupont social scene, 17th Street in particular, it was the guys with the most drugs that had the most friends.
I’m sue Joe has/had his share of hangers-on simply for that.
Show off that he seems to be, I’d bet he supplied drugs to “friends.”
What would draw a nice guy like Robert? Robert was probably just too nice to abandon people. Even when they should have been.
Yes, right on, AnnaZed. I do wonder who suggested the stop in the first place: Joe or the detective? What possibly could they have bought? Early-morning donuts sound too stereotypical as on-the-job sustenance for policemen, although they do have the requisite amount of sugar and calories to keep one going until Cosi’s.
So, if Folts was playing good cop, then who got to play bad cop? Joe had to have guessed that Folts was deploying this time-tested game, but, given Joe’s arrogance and potential use of drugs, he just kept blabbing away. It is no wonder that, at the last hearing, when the defense lawyers told the reporter that the defendants would remain silent, Joe laughed. That laugh could be, in part, a reaction to his own early loquaciousness and its
unintentional indication of guilt.
I think Joe laughed at that b/c no one keeps Joe quiet if he doesn’t want to be kept quiet……no hindsight 20/20 with Joe. He’s too arrogant and narcissistic for that (he already did everything right, remember?). There must be a way he can be stoked so that he insists on getting up on the stand and testifying…..
Colonel Jessup. LOL
These scenarios are plausible, except, that, apparently, the nearest Krispy Kreme at DuPont Circle closes at 11 p.m. on weekdays (according to a website.) The one in Alexandria, Virginia has a 24-hour drive through, but, since Sarah did not have her own car, that would have been out of the question … unless she got Tom and John to drive her there with “the other stuff” in tow.
Okay, not a lawyer here so pardon the confusion. Folts says Price told him he was a white collar defense attorney, but I thought he specialized in intellectual property (and civil rights if you count his pro bono work). Attempt to intimidate the police?
Hi Nick,
I think Joe dabbled in criminal work, as stated on his profile at Arent and in Martindale-Hubbell. He likely worked on some white collar criminal stuff as a junior associate – in a lower-rung-attorney capacity – and it certainly sounded better that night in the back of a squad car than saying “intellectual property lawyer”. I don’t know if I’d call it trying intimidate the police so much as a knee-jerk (Joe) reaction to garner brownie points and allow him to “control” the situation as much as possible.
Good question Nick. There’s also a mention of Bernie Grimm’s losing work on the terrorism-paintball case.
It’s not clear who Folt’s is talking about with this line from his notes: “He said he did (some?) work with the terrorist paintball case in VA.”
Did Joe work on this with Bernie on this case? What role would an IP guy have in it?
Attorneys (mostly Associates – and Joe had just made partner recently) from all practice groups usually do pro bono work throughout their tenure every year (in fact, in large firms, it’s pretty much expected and encouraged and is counted as billable hours up to a certain total number of pro bono hours). Usually the types of cases that come down vary, but a lot of them are criminal cases and can be murder cases, or anything along those lines. An attorney does not have to be specialized in the area in which they take a case on as pro bono…..
Could Bernie represent someone he’d worked with, or is that conflict of interest? Again, this is coming from a layperson.
Yes, he can represent someone he has “worked with.” Lawyers from firms represent each other all the time – although this isn’t quite the same. If Bernie had represented any of the police officers in the past who let’s say had interviewed Joe, then no he would probably not be able to represent Joe, b/c he would have inside knowledge on the people, their personalities, etc. he would have to go against in this case, and it would be a conflict of interest. Most likely he hasn’t b/c I don’t see that he was a D.A. or DOJ atty. If Grimm is a high powered white collar defense atty., then any police detective worth their salt would know and know of Grimm. This wouldn’t be the first time they would run into him representing someone that they considered a suspect – although that was not the case at the time – but this is probably how Joe picked him the second time – he heard his name once, then twice when his first atty. told him to get an atty. – a good atty. – and when asked for recommendations, Grimm’s name would have been in there, and Joe would have recognized it and prob. latched on.
Yes, that detail is especially out-of-place: why was the terrorism-paintball case in Virginia, of all things, broached at the end of this 15-20 minute car ride? Was it another notch in Joe’s achievement belt that he just had to flash to the detective? The former Eagle Scout constantly seeking validation from other men/authorities? I’m important; I worked with the Bernie Grimm on a terrorism case in Virginia! BTW, what’s happening with my house (of cards)? Pathetic!
Hi,what a good pants,thanks for sharing.I will get one like that.bill