No Cliche Left Behind
As we splashed through the affidavit last week, the three unprompted mentions of showers by Dylan Ward on the evening of the murder seemed murky and quizzical at first. But maybe not.
There are four mentions of showers when one includes what the MPD investigators saw. Let’s count them up:
“Joe talked about the shower breaking.”
“He (Robert) said he wanted to shower, we showed him the shower…”
“(Dylan) heard Mr. Wone take a shower…”
“…MPD officers noticed that Price, Zaborksy and Ward… appearing as if they had just showered.”
Was all this chatter about showers just merely small talk and inconsequential?
But after last week’s release of the government’s response to the defense’s discovery motion, yet another mention of the shower seems to take this curious banter well beyond the unintentional or fluky.
Tab A, page 2, item #6 makes the first mention of Robert’s BlackBerry found in the guest room that evening and the revelation that there were two unsent / saved draft messages on it, both time stamped. We learned that investigators failed to “image” the device and its value to either the prosecution of defense is now in question. Whether or not it’s even entered into evidence for the trial is far from certain as well.
Since no hard data appears to exist, all we have to lean on is Detective Waid’s recollection of what he saw on the display screen; namely the message Robert may have written to his wife Kathy, but did not send:
“An email purporting to be from Mr. Wone, to his wife, timed 11:05pm., indicating he had just taken a shower and was going to bed.”
Is this the exact point in which the defendants statements and actions appear to have crossed the line from coincidental to coordinated and orchestrated?
Did they need this ready explanation of Robert’s shower, repeated like a mantra, for why he would be found by EMT’s “showered… and placed into the bed?”
Oh, make that five mentions. Or is it six?
-Craig
Getting those ducks in a row. Ducks like April showers, too.
Wash the/your body, clean your soul. (K.D. Lang’s Wash Me Clean is now in my head).
It would be interesting to know exactly how “freshly showered” the three appeared to the investigators. Did they have wet hair? Could you smell shampoo or soap? Joe was only in underwear when EMT arrived, but was in a robe on the first floor by the time police arrived.
And considering none of them said that THEY took showers before they retired for bed makes the fact that the looked freshly showered, well ….suspect.
Bingo.
Second floor had only one bathroom, I believe. Where Ward and Wone would have both showered…. but wasn’t the shower broken?
I think the only other full bath was on the third floor. That’s a lot of people all using the same shower facility in a rather short amount of time. I’d like to know how they managed that.
One after another, in quick succession? Did Joe and Victor jump in together to save time? Did someone shower in Sarah’s bathroom instead? Or is someone going claim that the three – or the four – of them had a brief orgy before quickly retiring to their respective beds to fall sound asleep in time for the intruder to show up?
By the way, that last sentence was meant to be sarcastic, in case it wasn’t clear. And by “someone” I mean, is one of the roommates eventually going to claim there was a group shower.
If it was “broken”, that doesn’t mean it was unusable–it might have been “broken” in the sense of “the cold water cuts out sometimes” or “the water pressure’s a little weak” or what have you.
Since it was brought up so often the next morning, I am sure the recall as to what was wrong will be disclosed during cross examiniation.
Cross examination of who? Do you think the Defendants will ever take the stand in this trial with the alarming amount of inconsistencies in the sworn statements? Highly doubtful, I think.
Good point. Guess I am wishing that Robert has his day in court, but it seems unlikely any of the three on the stand for the obstruction charges.
Ohh, ladydetective! Good (but sobering) point.
My thinking is that is was the 3rd floor mater bath with the broken shower. Dylan’s statements made it sound like he showed Robert the guest room then the nearby 2nd floor bath.
Let’s also not forget what MPD saw on the scene in the back patio: A wet drain and an uncoiled garden hose that looked like it was recently used. Craig, ed.
Also of note about the drain and hose: It wasn’t immediately obvious from some of the photos that it is right outside the back door of the basement apartment, shielded by walls. I don’t think the neighbors could have seen a body being washed off eve if they were on an upper floor and could see over the back yard wall.
Agreed! As I said earlier this week, there may have been a lot of going up and down Sarah’s stairs to that back drain and not down the kitchen staircase.
I have often thought that some of the evidence was disposed of either in Sarah’s apartment or that the three used the rear exit from her apartment in order to get out of the house. I remember a conversation that a friend and I had with an MPD officer about six weeks after Robert’s murder and he mentioned something that I just now remember him saying. According to the officer, when MPD responded to 1509 Swann Street NW on the night of the murder and they began to investigate the home invasion theory that the three allege, officers noticed spider webs extending across the kitchen doorway. I didn’t think much about the officer’s comment at the time, and am really only just now recalling the conversation from September 2006. As I recall from previous posts on this site, there was some mention of Joe staring at a spider on the rear deck. How long does it take for a spider to spin a web across a doorway? Especially if an intruder has supposedly entered and exited using that doorway within the hour or so before policed arrived? Hmmm …
Unless the “intruder” was afraid of spiders and ducked to avoid Charlotte, kinda blows a hole in the intruder theory. Another hole, I should say.
I wonder if these officers recorded this information in THEIR reports. Sure isn’t on the affadavits.
You’re right … it’s not in the affadavit. The officer who relayed that piece of info to us is now retired, but is still in the area, I believe.
Just because they all kept telling the police they “told wone the shower was broken” … When/how did the shower actually break?
And remember, when EMTs saw Ward looking “freshly showered” he was coming out of the 2nd floor bath.
This brings me back to thinking about how the whole idea of washing Wone after he was stabbed makes no sense, especially if the defendant(s) had actually planned to kill him in advance.
1) If an intruder stabbed him, of course he did not wash Wone, put clothes on him and lay him out on the bed. And the residents would have no reason to wash Wone and so mess with the crime scene. Price at least would know that.
2) If Price and or Ward had planned to do it, one would think they would be smart enough to set it up so that it looked like an intruder had done it.
It seems to imply that he was killed elsewhere (Ward’s room, where the knife was handy?) when something went wrong. Yet Wone apparently did not struggle, so what exactly moved them to go from (alleged) torture to murder (or they planned to kill him and didn’t think through the aftermath?), and why so badly botch up the crime scene? I know it seems like going around in circles, but so much of what the EMTs and police encountered that night makes no sense whatsoever.
Of course the idea of actually killing someone is so incredible to me that I can’t imagine that mental state. It’s like looking at OJ and trying to imagine him slitting those peoples’ throats….
I’ve never thought it was planned in advance (i.e., a day or more). I think it was planned as a result of the alledged sexual assault. If they attacked Robert under the influence of something and then realized the gravity of the crime, they may have murdered him to cover up the OTHER crime of sexual assault. Why not take their chances with a murder charge and kill the only one that would tell, when they SURELY would be convicted of sexual assault if Robert were alive to tell. He most likely did not partipate voluntarily, since he ended up dead.
(As an added thought….it’s like the death penalty for child rapists debate. If they are going to get the death penalty for rape, they may as well kill the witness.)
Re Price….I think he’s smart enough to realize that a jumbled crime scene will make it harder to figure out what truly happened, which may preclude specific murder charges being handed down to a specific person. At this point, they will probably never be able to determine who exactly killed Robert. And that may be why murder charges haven’t been levied against the defendants. Unless they can figure a way to charge them together (a la Menendez Brothers), there will probably not be a murder trial.
I’m anxious to find out about the spot on Dylan’s comforter.
Just my opinion.
TK, this also made me remember a detail in the affidavit — the sheets and pillow on the bed in which Wone’s body had been placed. The writer of the affidavit tried to impress that the sheets were turned down crisply, and that the pillow had only one indentation on it — as if Wone’s head had made the indentation when he first laid down, and had never moved.
So … in regards to your comment, TK, I’m thinking that NOTHING happened in that room, except that Wone was found dead there. And that he was placed there *after* a clean up had been completed. And the “story” was coordinated that Wone had gone to sleep — apparently never moving or ruffling the sheets — when an “intruder” stabbed him.
CD, I am so with you on this. If Robert’s blood is on Dylan’s comforter it will be another ball game entirely. It’s mind-boggling that they don’t have those results – seems like a RUSH request to me.
If Robert’s blood is found on Dylan’s comforter means the government could proceed with a murder charge against Dylan Ward. According to their sworn statement’s from that evening there is no possible way any of Robert’s blood could have found its way to Dylan’s room, where the comforter was found.
Exactly, Lady…….Dylan claimed to sleep through the entire event.
Blood doesn’t slip under doors and jump onto beds.
Bea, the Innocence Act hearing is pending. They may use up the sample if they test it. Same for the remaining blood sample for toxicology. They have to have enough of the samples to store away for the Innocence Act requirements.
Ladydetective, I agree. MAYBE he’ll try to backtrack and say he carried something to his room which may have dripped but that’s not very believable. If Dylan gets charged with murder, then Joe and Victor’s conspiracy charges will be correspondingly beefed up. Perhaps Victor would then do the right thing knowing that his partner is going to prison regardless.
Bea: Are there other categories of charges between conspiracy and murder that may be faced if what you outline above comes true?
If Dylan were charged with murder, Victor and Joe could say the didn’t have anything to do with the murder (just clean up) and get away with accessory after the fact. But accessory after still gets 1/2 the jail time of the main felony up to….uhh, I think ,25 years. Can’t remember exactly. But it’s a sizeable amount of time.
Same thing with dear Sarah and brother Michael, if they helped clean/dispose of anything.
A question — how could Dylan backtrack here without going on the stand (something most defense attorneys would forbid) and changing his story. I just don’t see how they can change any part of their story at this point.
I don’t think I would have ever brought this up if you had not zoomed in on on the issue of the showers. I’ll try to discuss the matter in a way that is most respectful to Robert Wone. We all know an anatomical assumption made about Asian guys, and this is particularly so in the gay community. But some have enough experience to know that this is not always the case. In fact it can be the opposite sometimes. So let me say it bluntly, what if Robert was hung? His friends could have gone on being his friends for years, and then for the first time they a-c-c-i-d-e-n-t-a-l-l-y see him naked after the shower. And they are pissed. Gay men have a lot of issues around this anatomical matter and can often act irrationally in relation to it. Particularly if they had just assumed it was the opposite for years. The resultant actions then are a mixture of desire and resentment and maybe rage. If Robert turned them down, after they had discovered his big secret then that only adds to their rage. Of course all of this is premised on a nutty view of life, but I think it is the case that some gay guys are predisposed to be nutty around this issue.
Umm…. okay…. So are you wondering if ‘accidentally’ seeing Robert naked drove one of the guys into an angry jealous frenzy because he broke some stereotypes? This is just about as odd as that post someone had a couple of weeks ago that read like a letter to Penthouse forum (the one where it read like some crazy fantasy with the victim wanting a massage from Dylan Ward complete with details). Then again, this is a pretty odd case.
Odd indeed. To use your take on it, more like one of those crazy letters to Bam, or the latest
equivalent, in Inches Magazine. Just change the
genetic background, which as I said might have made it worse.
Agreed!
It may be that men–not “gay men” specifically–have “a lot of issues around this anatomical matter,” to quote the oddly coy language above; but this is one of those posts that illuminates its author far more than the crime.
Agreed! Hahaha …
Jack, my thoughts exactly about this highly speculative post by Legal Beagle! But who knows when it comes to this case.
Men definitely. I could have adopted the euphemism from those commercials “that special part of the male body”. But I doubt that
would help. If you don’t mind me saying so, I think the fact that your post both affirms it and denies it in a few words vis-a-vis this crime proves my general point, though not perhaps its direct relevance to this case.
Are the terms outlined below reliable?
obstruction of justice:
n. an attempt to interfere with the administration of the courts, the judicial system or law enforcement officers, including threatening witnesses, improper conversations with jurors, hiding evidence or interfering with an arrest. Such activity is a crime.
conspiracy:
n. when people work together by agreement to commit an illegal act. A conspiracy may exist when the parties use legal means to accomplish an illegal result, or to use illegal means to achieve something that in itself is lawful. To prove a conspiracy those involved must have agreed to the plan before all the actions have been taken, or it is just a series of independent illegal acts. A conspiracy can be criminal for planning and carrying out illegal activities, or give rise to a civil lawsuit for damages by someone injured by the conspiracy. Thus, a scheme by a group of salesmen to sell used automobiles as new, could be prosecuted as a crime of fraud and conspiracy, and also allow a purchaser of an auto to sue for damages for the fraud and conspiracy.
accessory:
n. a second-string player who helps in the commission of a crime by driving the getaway car, providing the weapons, assisting in the planning, providing an alibi, or hiding the principal offender after the crime. Usually the accessory is not immediately present during the crime, but must be aware that the crime is going to be committed or has been committed. Usually an accessory’s punishment is less than that of the main perpetrator, but a tough jury or judge may find the accessory just as responsible
aid and abet:
v. help commit a crime. A lawyer redundancy since abet means aid, which lends credence to the old rumor that lawyers used to be paid by the word.
Hi Anon. I’m assuming those come from a legal dictionary, and while they look generally right, what matters here is the DC criminal code (which can be found online, but I’m running to a meeting . . .).
Thanks Bea. I will look those up later tonight and post in case folks are interested.
For those who are interested, this is what I found on the DC code (sorry for format – this is a copy/paste project):
§ 22-1805a. Conspiracy to commit crime [Formerly § 22-105a].
(a) If 2 or more persons conspire either to commit a criminal offense or to defraud the District of Columbia or any court or agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, each shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both, except that if the object of the conspiracy is a criminal offense punishable by less than 5 years, the maximum penalty for the conspiracy shall not exceed the maximum penalty provided for that offense.
(b) No person may be convicted of conspiracy unless an overt act is alleged and proved to have been committed by 1 of the conspirators pursuant to the conspiracy and to effect its purpose.
(c) When the object of a conspiracy contrived within the District of Columbia is to engage in conduct in a jurisdiction outside the District of Columbia which would constitute a criminal offense under an act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia if performed therein, the conspiracy is a violation of this section if:
(1) Such conduct would also constitute a crime under the laws of the other jurisdiction if performed therein; or
(2) Such conduct would constitute a criminal offense under an act of Congress exclusively applicable to the District of Columbia even if performed outside the District of Columbia.
(d) A conspiracy contrived in another jurisdiction to engage in conduct within the District of Columbia which would constitute a criminal offense under an act of Congress exclusively applicable to the District of Columbia if performed within the District of Columbia is a violation of this section when an overt act pursuant to the conspiracy is committed within the District of Columbia. Under such circumstances, it is immaterial and no defense to a prosecution for conspiracy that the conduct which is the object of the conspiracy would not constitute a crime under the laws of the other jurisdiction.
(Mar. 3, 1901, ch. 854, § 908A; July 29, 1970, 84 Stat. 599, Pub. L. 91-358, title II, § 202; 1973 Ed., § 22-105a; 1981 Ed., § 22-105a.)
§ 22-722. Prohibited acts; penalty.
(a) A person commits the offense of obstruction of justice if that person:
(1) Knowingly uses intimidation or physical force, threatens or corruptly persuades another person, or by threatening letter or communication, endeavors to influence, intimidate, or impede a juror in the discharge of the juror’s official duties;
(2) Knowingly uses intimidating or physical force, threatens or corruptly persuades another person, or by threatening letter or communication, endeavors to influence, intimidate, or impede a witness or officer in any official proceeding, with intent to:
(A) Influence, delay, or prevent the truthful testimony of the person in an official proceeding;
(B) Cause or induce the person to withhold truthful testimony or a record, document, or other object from an official proceeding;
(C) Evade a legal process that summons the person to appear as a witness or produce a document in an official proceeding; or
(D) Cause or induce the person to be absent from a legal official proceeding to which the person has been summoned by legal process;
(3) Harasses another person with the intent to hinder, delay, prevent, or dissuade the person from:
(A) Attending or testifying truthfully in an official proceeding;
(B) Reporting to a law enforcement officer the commission of, or any information concerning, a criminal offense;
(C) Arresting or seeking the arrest of another person in connection with the commission of a criminal offense; or
(D) Causing a criminal prosecution or a parole or probation revocation proceeding to be sought or instituted, or assisting in a prosecution or other official proceeding;
(4) Injures any person or his or her property on account of the person or any other person giving to a criminal investigator in the course of any criminal investigation information related to a violation of any criminal statute in effect in the District of Columbia;
(5) Injures any person or his or her property on account of the person or any other person performing his official duty as a juror, witness, or officer in any court in the District of Columbia; or
(6) Corruptly, or by threats of force, any way obstructs or impedes or endeavors to obstruct or impede the due administration of justice in any official proceeding.
(b) Any person convicted of obstruction of justice shall be sentenced to a maximum period of incarceration of not less than 3 years and not more than 30 years, or shall be fined not more than $10,000, or both. For purposes of imprisonment following revocation of release authorized by § 24-403.01, obstruction of justice is a Class A felony.
(1981 Ed., § 22-722; Dec. 1, 1982, D.C. Law 4-164, § 502, 29 DCR 3976; May 7, 1993, D.C. Law 9-268, § 2(c), 39 DCR 5702; May 23, 1995, D.C. Law 10-256, § 3, 42 DCR 20; June 8, 2001, D.C. Law 13-302, § 5, 47 DCR 7249.)
§ 22-723. Tampering with physical evidence; penalty.
(a) A person commits the offense of tampering with physical evidence if, knowing or having reason to believe an official proceeding has begun or knowing that an official proceeding is likely to be instituted, that person alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, or removes a record, document, or other object, with intent to impair its integrity or its availability for use in the official proceeding.
(b) Any person convicted of tampering with physical evidence shall be fined not more than $5,000, imprisoned for not more than 3 years, or both.
(1981 Ed., § 22-723; Dec. 1, 1982, D.C. Law 4-164, § 503, 29 DCR 3976; July 15, 2004, D.C. Law 15-174, § 301, 51 DCR 3677.)
Thanks, Anon.
Here is my most precise and concisely-expressed theory to date of how Robert Wone was murdered, in under 100 words:
“Wone was murdered because a premeditated doping, rape and pornographic photo shoot went horribly wrong. It began with Lance’s relaxing massage and Joe’s tranquilizing injections. But unexpectedly, Wone regained consciousness and confronted them. Soon thereafter, a household friend “intruded” and screamed. Rife with paranoia, Wone’s drugged-up murderers concocted their ‘intruder’ cover-up in order to avert investigation into their drug/rape activities. Plastic tarps and gloves from their BDSM collection were readily available to help conceal evidence from their three surgical (yet bloody) “we-are-all-in-this-together” stabbings. Either Sarah, Michael or Louis disposed of all of the evidence.”
Dispute it, trash it, take issue with it, refine it, improve it. Whatever. But perhaps even more usefully, based on your own intelligent assessment of what happened that night, offer an even more likely summary (perhaps also concisely-worded) of how you believe Robert Wone was murdered that evening.
that would be so very unlikely! its much more possible that…..
…..sometime after price and zaborsky fell asleep, they were awakened by a security chime that would ring any time any door of the residence was opened. …..in their interviews, the three uniformly maintained that the killer must have been an unknown and unseen intruder into the residence.
Sorry – that seems even more unlikely Candy K.
Good summary. The emphasis on the inception with a relaxing massage is believable. But attributing it to poor beleaguered contributor Lance is a bit much, or perhaps just a slip of the pen/keys.
Did it again. Sorry. I meant Devan.
I kinda have a hard time thinking an actual message took place due to time constraints, but I could imagine an offer resulting in Robert lying on his stomach to receive a message, perhaps. Robert had multiple injections on the left side of his neck. If Robert was prone….on his stomach…..a right handed person could easily inject the left side of his neck from the left side of his body. Which would be the most likely location a right-handed masseuse would be. Robert could have been subdued instantly. He could have been turned over, assaulted, and injected again on his chest, foot and hand when needed to keep him subdued.
Well, I still think that “a premeditated [non-consensual] doping, rape and pornographic photo shoot” is an extraordinary thing to posit, and it strikes me as wildly unlikely. I’m also quite skeptical that the roommates were “drugged up”, for reasons I’ve expressed before.
But also, I think that anyone who suggests that a novel from San Francisco is somehow relevant to the case is so far past the edge of sanity that any theory he proposes should be taken as sensationalist fiction.
Lance, my “wildly unlikely” theory is more likely than any theory to explain the murders you have yet to post on this site to date.
Oh, and that “novel from San Francisco.” Had you already read it? What did you think?
I believe the final injection(s), which at that point were designed to be letal, were into Robert’s chest. The initial neck, foot and hand injections as Robert was lying on his stomach were originally intended only for the purposes of rape.
Quick question: where did Joe say he was when Robert arrived at the house? Who was home, and where were they from the time Robert arrived to the time he went upstairs (according to the statements)?
I think this may be a very important point. I’m starting to have a new theory….
Groan – another long-winded “Bea” post. (NM, as to your questions, there is no statement about where they were when Robert arrived but Robert, Dylan and Joe went to the kitchen).
None of us “know” what happened, Lance, but I wonder what you think happened. It’s far easier to criticize other theories than to put forward one of your own, and I really am interested in what you think “happened” – even if you engage in (reasonable) speculation as we all must do when the evidence is circumstantial in nature. I think to get anywhere, we have to consider common sense and work backwards from what “we know”.
I’ll toss in my current thinking. A lot of what’s been said before (countless times) but with a fresh look. I went back to a 2006 Washington Post article; I’ve been so focused on the November affidavit that I found the October 2006 article interesting in that it states that Price “said” he went upstairs to sleep “around 11:00 pm”. Granted, this statement is based solely on an anonymous source with “direct knowledge of the investigation.” NOTE: the story reports that Victor is already asleep upstairs when Robert arrives – directly contradicting my prior theory – and in this I’ll assume Victor was home asleep (though if he “arrived” instead of “awakening” it’s still quite similar).
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/08/AR2006100801061_2.html
Here is the timeline when piecing together the article and the affidavit:
10:30 Robert arrives
11:00 Joe goes upstairs
11:05-11:15 (Presuming Robert and Dylan go upstairs at 11 with Joe) Dylan finishes reading, takes his sleeping pill, and hears Robert shower and turn the “latch” on his door
From the Post article, Price said he fell asleep and later heard a chime (from the affidavit: “after 11:10”). The Post states that “as many as 10 minutes” pass between the chime and hearing “deep guttural moaning”. He and Victor go downstairs.
In the affidavit, Victor said he and Joe are asleep when he heard low screaming and grunts (no mention of the chime or Joe already being awake). (NOTE: in the affidavit, Price states that “he and Victor” went to bed, which may be an error in the notes, may be that Victor got home after Robert’s arrival, or may be a slip if he really didn’t go to bed at all and this was about when all hell broke loose and he wished he’d gone to bed – I suspect the last).
With the time of the chime and the grunts, Joe and Victor would have gone downstairs around 11:20-30. Victor claimed he screamed upon seeing Robert. A scream is heard between 11:05-11:35 (“newscast” witness), which is consistent.
(Price’s affidavit statement is really helpful: “Price estimates the chime of the intruder was between 11:10 – 11:49.”)
Cover your ass much, Joe? Clearly he didn’t hear the chime at 11:49 – he chooses not to be helpful in solving Robert’s murder.
Back to 11:25. The Post says the scream awakened Ward. In his affidavit Ward stated the “commotion” awakened him and he waited “a minute” before rising and goes out to find Victor talking to 911.
Only the 911 call began at 11:49.
If we have Joe and Victor sleeping until 11:30, and Victor screams before the newscast ends, Dylan leaving his room to find Victor on the phone still doesn’t match up – 11:35 and 11:49 (the “minimum” critical 15 minutes we’ve hashed and rehashed).
So much doesn’t match up. As in the estimate of the coroner that Robert was stabbed at 10:50, before Joe and Dylan “went to bed”. This is a very long-winded preface to my theory – but from working the angle of Victor.
As to the actual murder of Robert, my theory is that something went terribly wrong and Dylan and/or Joe decided that Robert “had to die” to cover their actions and stabbed him. I suspect that it was a cover up of a sexual assault. But back to business.
In Zaborsky’s statement he mentions that while speaking with the 911 operator, Joe was asking “what time is it?” and that the operator answered 11:43 when it was really 11:54. The affidavit implies that the odd part was the time was inaccurate. I think the weird part is that Joe would CARE what time it was while he was “stanching blood” and weird that Victor would mention this.
Maybe Joe did ask the time because he’d hoped to “send” those emails he’d typed. Maybe Joe did ask because the “do-over” of the cover-up he’d concocted required that he was keep on schedule.
But why would Victor tell the cops that Joe was asking about the time? 911 calls are recorded and timed – he didn’t think he’d convince the cop it really was 11:43. Maybe he wanted it to sound like Joe had been asleep and was disoriented, “proven” by asking the time. As someone said, there’s often a grain of truth in the lie. Maybe VICTOR was disoriented and confused, was told to go call 911, and he wanted to “cover” for what might be on the tape regarding a “discussion” of the time.
Unlike Joe’s and Dylan’s statements, Victor’s is not filled with chitchat and red herrings, and is likely (mostly) true except for placing Joe with him in bed and the weirdness about the “time”. Unless he arrived home late, I think he was asleep and was kept in the dark during the stabbing (10:50) and clean-up (10:50-11:35). The place was clean at the time of the scream, and the critical 15 minutes was spent on getting the kitchen knife and wiping blood on it, cleaning themselves, clearing their heads and preparing for the arrival of authorities – and in persuading Victor to “sign on”.
I think Victor, not Dylan, woke up to “the commotion” around 11:30. The cover-up plan (to remove the body) was aborted, possibly from the scream “problem”, possibly because Victor said “we have to call an ambulance” or “I won’t be part of that – it’s Robert” or some semblance of the two. I think Joe cajoled Victor into delaying the call (“honey, it’s too late to help him”) while he put together the intruder theory (knife, etc.) and told Victor he COULD call the ambulance, but in just a little while, that he needed let Joe shower or otherwise cops would think he killed him (and of course he didn’t, he’d explain) . . .
My theory is that Joe told Victor that he’d only have to tell the cops what he knew – meaning nothing – except to insert one important lie: that Joe was next to him in bed when he woke up (and make sure to “work in” that Dylan was nowhere near the body when he came down the stairs). Dylan was cleaning himself up and staying out of sight to let Joe work his magic on Victor, so he may really have been in a robe when Victor first saw him.
Victor let Joe take a shower before he called 911 (asked for the ambulance). I imagine the (abhorrent) BS that Joe espoused and Victor spinelessly accepted: what good would come of Joe going to prison – it wouldn’t bring Robert back. Joe told him that the DA couldn’t MAKE Victor testify because DC law had changed (April 2006) to apply to Domestic Partners (Joe didn’t care about details). I see Joe cooing that’s what the law was for, to protect married people from having to make this kind of choice . . . and Victor signed on.
But Joe said he went to bed “around 11:00” because that’s “around when” Robert was stabbed (an hour before the 911 call, per the report).
Could we put Joe in bed with Victor and have Dylan be the only murderer? Yes, and maybe he started the clean-up plan, but this seems unlikely. It would be difficult to wash/carry a grown man alone, do all the work within a short time frame.
Could it have been only Joe? Possibly, but many of the same problems exist, and Robert was Joe’s “old friend” making it less likely. Could it have been only Victor? Possibly, same problems, and evidence suggests that Victor was the least likely to engage in sexual behaviors (electro-stimulation, etc.)
Could someone else have done all this while Dylan, Victor and Joe slept? Is it possible? My mind balks. Robert was stabbed “around 11:00” –Joe & Co. didn’t say goodnight to the murderer just as he was stabbing Robert. The only remote possibility is brother Michael (that he could be there with them, or sneak in with keys), but even if then Dylan and Joe were not yet asleep – according to their statements, they saw/heard Robert upstairs, taking a shower, etc., taking it past the time of death). Victor and Dylan wouldn’t be willing to lose all they’ve lost so far (respect, way of life) and face prison for him. I doubt Joe would do this for Michael either.
Mr. Wone engaged in sexual behavior (consensual or nonconsensual) and died of stab wounds in the home of these three men, while they were home, between 10:30 and 11:49. In 79 minutes, a murder and significant “clean up” occurred – these are incontrovertible facts. None of the three men states that anyone else was present; none states that they heard any talking or any sounds indicating sex or scuffle though two of them were awakened by moans and immediately rose to see what was the matter. If they heard the other sounds, they would have investigated them; they would have reported them when asked – they said they heard nothing (no transporting a body, the sound of water, or the footsteps down to the back porch/Sarah’s bathroom, doors opening/shutting, the dryer). That they are lying doesn’t make them guilty of murder, but the circumstantial evidence is significant. Scott Peterson was convicted of murdering his wife Lacy on less circumstantial evidence, in my opinion, but these men are not charged with murder (yet).
Long winded or not, that is a great post and a keeper Bea! I am on the same page with you on a lot of this.
Bea, thanks for a great post. Your analysis of the dynamics between Joe and Victor seems particularly insightful.
I wanted to add one thought: The reports state that both Victor and Dylan were standing up, walking around; and that Joe was sitting, planted even, on the bed staring at Robert. I’ve heard, and have experienced myself, that people in shock will begin a repetitive physical activity. It is significant to me that two of the defendants seem to have exhibited a state of shock, a state of WTF just happened, if you like. This behavior helps support my evolving theory that Joe, not Dylan, committed the actual murder.
Agreed KM, but I would wager that the 15+ year relationship Joe had with Robert may have weighed on him to some degree. “How am I going to make this call to Kathy.” must have been on his mind. Not sure if ones legs would buckle with this tragedy in their home, or if they would pace around, or somewhere in between.
I can’t see that Joe’s legs would buckle…..from what I see, he seems a little to sociopathic to care about how someone else feels. Seems he would care more about how it effects him than someone else.
And from what little was released to the media, Joe had no problems lying to Kathy Wone on the phone and telling her to get to the hospital right away, when he knew Robert was already dead.
This is a phenomenal post, Bea. I couldn’t get my head around the timing issues before, and while I’m still having trouble understanding them, you’ve done such a great job walking us through that now I think my confusion is only due to the fact that you can’t make something coherent out of a bunch of inherently conflicting statements.
I have my own little theory that I’ve been mulling… unlike some of possibilities others have discussed, I think mine is a more “out there” in that it hinges on a few details that could easily be proven wrong. Such as….
1. that Victor arrived home *after* Robert arrived, while the assault was taking place, *earlier* than expected by Joe (and thus Victor was the “intruder”);
2. that Dylan and Robert *or* Dylan and Joe remained in the kitchen while the other went upstairs ahead of time;
3. that the reason the “broken shower” detail came up so often, including w/ the blackberry, is because it was key part of the ruse to get Robert into position for the trap to be sprung;
4. that Robert was told it was the *2nd floor* shower that was malfunctioning, not the one on the *3rd* floor.
5. KM’s point about Joe sitting while the others were pacing, and comments others have made about Joe being meticulous and detail oriented, Victor being nice, appealing, and prob. vanilla, and Dylan being a bit of a nonentity, and more recently looking vacant or ‘haunted.’
The following is 99.9% pure conjecture and imagination. I mean, I know that. Still with me?
First, some conjecture about the dynamic of the relationships:
Joe is dominant and controlling, vain and proud. His partner, Victor, is a good guy – decent, smart, respectable. He’s also relatively vanilla and to Joe, not much of a challenge. Joe is getting bored. But on the outside everything looks perfect. Then Dylan rents the Capitol Hill house basement, and Joe and Dylan begin a sexual relationship. Dylan is not vanilla like Victor. Joe sees he has the perfect wife+mistress situation (Victor the respectable wife, Dylan the piece on the side). He begins to manipulate and groom the already troubled, somewhat fragile Dylan to be Price’s toy, his service top. “You’re so special, Dylan, you understand me like no one else can, especially not Victor… you’re so wonderful, so adventurous and free, its like we’re soulmates…. you could never disappoint me, Dylan… now if you’ll just put on these rubber gloves I bought you and study the diagram here…” Joe makes Dylan feels special; more and more, Dylan’s self-esteem is centered on his ability to satisfy Joe sexually. He also becomes dependent on Joe for the roof over his head, and his job.
Oh, and did I mention drugs? Drugs.
As the relationship between Price and Dylan develops, Victor is uncomfortable but Price convinces him that Dylan can give him something that Victor cannot. Victor feels humiliated- because of his ‘deficiency,’ Price has replaced him with a “better” sexual partner. Victor feels almost like he ‘owes’ Price for not being able to overcome his inadequacy and be the sexual partner Price demands, but its just not in him [this is such a Dan Savage thing – if your partner won’t indulge your kink, he is well within his ‘rights’ to seek someone outside the relationship to satisfy him; therefore if your partner cheats its most likely your own damn fault for being so vanilla and repressed].
Victor is unhappy, but Joe tells Victor to take it or leave it, and Victor decides to take it. I can handle this, Victor thinks. Victor’s bonus prize is damaged self-esteem, shame, and greater emotional dependence on Joe.
By the time Joe and Victor buy Swann, Joe’s gone way beyond “kink” to some very extreme activities, with Dylan in tow. Victor is definitely trapped– he co-owns the property – and by this time he’s probably brainwashed himself, under Joe’s manipulation, into thinking that everything would be okay if he (Victor) could just get over his hang-ups and learn to love this “family” arrangement. After all, Victor thinks to himself, its *my* hang-ups that forced Joe to go outside the relationship in the first place. I’m not a victim. I’m not weak. I can handle this. Maybe he even thinks – if I stay with him, it’ll prove to him how much I love him. Eventually he’ll see I’m the only one he needs, and he’ll stop doing all these disgusting things with other men.
Meanwhile, Dylan is being used for sex but night after night, he goes to bed alone. Staring at the ceiling, knowing that Victor is getting the affection and support that he, Dylan, is apparently unworthy to receive. Joe and Victor are up in the master suite; he’s stuck in the smallest room in the house. When all’s said and done, Joe and Victor have a marriage, a home, kids… and he, Dylan, has nothing. He knows he’s being used, but by now he’s so messed up he doesn’t even know who he is. He never saw himself arriving in this place, being this person. He had had so much potential; everyone said so. Now he’s a huge disappointment. If he left, who would want him? When people notice Dylan, they see him as vacant, empty, not fully there. Its not like his phone is ringing off the hook. And the anti-depressants can only do so much.
Meanwhile, Joe is sitting pretty. He has total emotional control of a wife (Victor), a mistress (Dylan). (Joe’s the only one happy with the relationship – its all arranged around his needs – but what does he care?) He has an array of misfit-helpers like his brother Michael, Louis Hinton, and Crazy Cat-Man who depend on him; he’s got his house(s), car(s), social standing, and he’s making partner. But its not enough.
That’s what I think the backdrop to this crime was; why I think Price was the planner and prime mover; why Dylan went along with it, and why Victor neither stopped him ahead of time nor exposed him afterwards.
I’ll go into that part in a new comment – this is way longer than I planned it to be, and I want the editors to be able to delete it if I’ve crossed the line.
Editors: if you think this comment is inappropriate, please DO delete it. I respect your judgment.
NM, don’t stop! I think the psychology/dynamics are very similar to what I think (and posted to some extent). I think it’s important to say that most of these undertones would have been under the surface, adding to the kettle that overflowed that night. Perhaps you think Joe overtly planned something – really want to keep reading – but I suspect it’s less “neat” than that. That in a bizarre way, in “what happened” Joe just found that place of “not being able to control” he was looking for, and Robert was killed as a result. On some level he may be thrilled by this new challenge (try to catch me!).
Yes, I totally think Joe planned it. I think he went over and over it, such that the other two thought it was just part of his fantasy world. I think neither of them took him seriously until it was too late. But I think that prior knowledge, preparation, and – little did Dylan and Victor realize – rehearsal, was essential. Even though Joe might have planned to take more time, in the end he had to wrap things up quickly. The fact that he – or they – were able to get their sh-t together, calm down (seem resigned to the situation, even?) and then stay on message in the subsequent interrogation says to me that on some level none of this was a surprise.
I also think more strongly than ever that there was no consensual sexual activity between Robert and anyone else- consensual activity would have left too much potential evidence on Robert (under fingernails, etc). Why risk it? Besides, for what Joe wanted, consent wasn’t necessary. From the very brief look I took at the photos at the link someone posted here, the recipient individuals were supine.
One more thing – I’m inclined to think there was an unknown accomplice who walked out with various items. If that person was Crazy Cat-Man, perhaps that’s why he broke down (with the cats) in such a dramatic fashion. Downward spiral, indeed.
After getting away with that, I imagine Joe would have felt so powerful and so confident that he didn’t blink at taking risks like opening the dvd business.
I think Dylan is the weakest link at this point. I wonder, as Joe went deeper and deeper into his fantasy world, if Dylan ever wondered that if he didn’t satisfy Joe’s wishes, Joe might end up making him (Dylan) the victim? Dylan might not have been just a pathetic shell; he might have had extreme anxiety. Now Joe is still with Victor (Victor is hooked)… But it seems like Dylan’s been shunted aside. Sent away to Florida, etc. I wonder if Dylan can still perform after all that. Maybe Dylan’s functionality has been, um, compromised, or maybe Joe just thinks – ‘been there, done that.’
Wow! That was brilliant. Strictly speaking I don’t think there was anything inappropriate about it, except that it started to make me feel sorry for certain characters I don’t think deserve that emotion
I think I know what you mean. I was picturing Dylan lying there, alone, knowing Joe and Victor were together under the same roof, night after night after night – that Joe chose to be with Victor and not him, that no matter how hard he tried to satisfy Joe, it wasn’t enough, and…. ugh. What an awful, empty, humiliating feeling that would be.
Doesn’t excuse anything, of course. Not a damn thing.
Here’s the rest of my 99.9% purely speculative speculation.
Joe still isn’t satisfied. He delves deeper and deeper into extreme porn and extreme behavior. He thinks about becoming a model / actor or producer, not just consumer. He starts looking around for new “conquests,” placing a personal ad on alt.com. Sure, he’s putting his true identity out there more than he should, but he’s vain – he wants potential conquests to figure out who he is – a prominent, successful, impressive man. Joe’s ego, and confidence in his own powers, is limitless.
Joe starts thinking about the ultimate expression of power: depriving someone of his life. It starts out as a fantasy that he talks about with Dylan, but then the talk gets serious. He’s really planning this out. If anyone could do this and get away with its him. Dylan agrees; he’s used to telling Joe whatever he wants to hear. This is just more role playing. Victor plugs his ears and tells himself this is all talk, all fantasy, nothing more. Joe’s a bit obsessed, but he’ll get bored and move on to the next thing; he always does. The more Joe talks, the deeper into denial Victor and Dylan sink.
Besides, what’s Dylan going to do? Walk out, with nowhere to go and nothing to fall back on? After all this time?
Besides, what’s Victor going to do? Report his husband to the police for having inappropriate sexual urges and delusions of power?
Joe thinks about a victim. Someone who answers the personal ad? A sex worker he hires? If he does that, he’d definitely be the prime suspect in the rape/murder – the police will say that is why Joe had him at the house in the first place. Someone he knows? A “friend”? If the victim was a friend, there would be an innocuous pretext for the victim to be in the house. He could just invite the victim over.
Joe thinks of his old roommate, Robert. He always had a thing for Robert, but Robert was never interested. No matter how hard he tried to be nice to Robert, he would never submit to Price’s overtures. Robert was polite, friendly – and not interested. Still, when he invited Robert to his party, he came. Almost like Robert was teasing him. Defying him. Who does Robert think he is? Robert is small, weak – just like Victor and Dylan. Joe thinks of himself as bigger and stronger. He decides he can take him.
Joe invites Robert over a number of times – that commute must be a killer, Joe says. Why not come over after work, stay over, and go to work from here in the morning? Finally Robert says yes.
Joe tells Dylan and Victor that this is it. Victor is still in denial. He wants no part of it. You do what you want, I’ll stay away that night, he tells Joe. Dylan is in a daze. He can’t believe this is really going to happen.
Joe tells Dylan: when Robert gets here, I’ll greet him at the door. You stay downstairs and make small talk. Then I’ll say I have to go upstairs to do something. You keep him down here while I put the tarp down and get the gear out. You tell Robert that he’s staying on the second floor in the guest room, but the shower in that bathroom (the bathroom he used when he was there for the party) isn’t working right. If he wants to take a shower tonight, or in the morning, you’ll show him where everything is in the bathroom on the third floor. Walk him up, and when you get up to the third floor – I’ll grab him, and you stick him.
[It makes more sense to me that the crime would take place on the third floor. Dylan’s bedroom on the second floor is small for all this activity, plus there isn’t direct access to the bathroom. The master suite is larger and the bathroom opens right into it. The speed of the crime and dearth of blood / DNA evidence indicates to me that the scene was prepared and supplies assembled, but if this were set up in the guest room, Robert would have seen it as soon as he opened the door and might have struggled and screamed in the hallway… on the third floor they could have cornered him more easily, the soundproofing is better, there’s more room for set up (especially cameras and tarps) and Joe could have overpowered Robert from above as he was coming up the stairs with Dylan.
(Alternately, Dylan could have gone upstairs ahead of time, and Joe could have led him upstairs to “see” the bathroom)
If there were another person involved – a person who later carried bloody sheets and towels, the murder weapon, and the cameras outside of the house – he could easily have been waiting up on the third floor.
The trap is sprung. Once Robert is subdued, Joe grabs his blackberry and drafts the emails – establishing (in his mind) that Robert was 1. in bed already, and 2. showered, by 11:10 – but doesn’t send them, lest one of the recipients reply and expect to hear from Robert. Later, when he stages Robert’s body, he’ll send the emails – the shower detail will establish why Robert’s body is damp.
The crime is taking place as planned – when Victor unexpectedly comes home. Maybe Victor had to see for himself, maybe his conscience was bothering him, maybe he thought the plan was to incredible to be true, and staying away that night was being ridiculous. He walks up to the third floor, sees what’s happening, and screams.
Joe switches gears. He planned to have several hours to commit the crime and deal with the cover up, Victor just had to intrude. Did someone hear the door chime when Victor came in? Would someone call 911 because of Victor’s scream? Victor wants it to stop. If he sees any more he’s going to lose it. Okay, Joe tells him. We’ll fix it. Just give me a few minutes and we’ll fix it.
Joe directs the clean up. Joe and Dylan shed whatever gear they have on; Victor has to shed his clothes so he doesn’t contaminate them. Joe, Dylan, and Victor all wind up wet from washing everything down; they only have enough time to don bathrobes and underwear afterwards. If there is an additional accomplish, they load him up with the tarps, weapon, camera etc. and take him down the stairs and out through Sarah’s apartment exit – obviously he can’t leave through the first floor doors or he might be seen. Outside Sarah’s door they hose down his pants and shoes so he won’t track blood evidence away from the house. Someone let’s him out and rel0cks the back gate. No time to stage a break in on the first floor. Only enough time to dress Robert, place him on the guest bed for the first time, stage the weapon, cut the sheets. Not enough time to make the bed look slept in. Problem – they cleaned up all the blood, now there’s no blood for staging a struggle in the guest room. Joe takes a towel, presses it into the wounds, uses it to smear the dummy knife, and smears some around the bed / in the room. This will lead the investigators to think the guest room is the true scene of the crime. Problem – it won’t be spatter, it’ll be smears; they’ll let the cops assume someone must have tried to clean the blood off (instead of putting it on). Whatever – he doesn’t need to prove who did it – thats the cops’ job.
And once the cops see there was no break-in on the third floor level, it might be hours, days – hey, this is DC – weeks or months before they look seriously at the master bathroom / bedroom as the true crime scene. Maybe he has just enough time to use the bloody towel to create a bit of trail leading the stairs.
Okay, they’ve done as much as they can, they need to call 911 – they’ve been lucky so far that no one has come to the door but they can’t risk it any longer. And Victor wants Joe to make the call. Joe has him under control – ‘you knew about this in advance,’ Joe tells him. ‘I told you this was going to happen. You didn’t stop me. You knew, and you left the house. We can’t turn back the clock now.’ Joe tells Victor – go ahead, you can tell the truth. You weren’t here when Robert came in. You didn’t see him. Say you were in bed. The door chimed when you came in – say you heard the chime, you heard some noises, you looked, you found the body, you were shocked, you screamed. Its all true, that part’s all true. You’re not lying. You don’t know what else happened, you didn’t see it. Its not a lie. You can do this.’
Meanwhile Dylan is in a daze, wandering around, taking Joe’s office, following the plan… he’s there, he’s not there, he just needs to remember the story and it’ll be okay. ‘I don’t know anything. Robert came over. We talked in the kitchen. It was hot. I told him about the shower. I said I’d show him where everything is for the shower. I don’t know what happened next. I went to bed. I didn’t see anything.’
By the time the EMT’s arrive, Dylan and Victor are calm, pacing; Joe, by contrast, thinks all things considering, his plan has gone remarkably well. He still has everything under control. He’s proud. He can’t take his eyes off his work.
So many typos, etc. “accomplice” not “accomplish.” Second to last paragraph, “taking Joe’s *orders*.”
Very sorry if this goes too far – if so, please do delete right away, with my apologies.
Bea – I took pieces from what you wrote, and from things a lot of other people wrote as well. There’s a lot of people’s comments in there – I think I just put them together in a particular order. In fact, I think the only bit of it that’s unique to me is my hunch about the third floor vs. second floor bathrooms.
I remember when I walked through 1509 after the renovation, before it was sold to the joe and victor. The third floor bathroom stuck in my mind – I thought they had done a brilliant job with it. The layout was so open and full of light, and the tub area looked particularly open and inviting, positioned as it was against the back window. I remember thinking that one could spend a lot of time in there and be very comfortable.
Good post N.M. – Now to digest it all!
Interesting theory, but I don’t think something this bad for Joe’s career and his image of being the upstanding gay rights crusader was planned. Also, he and Robert Wone were not roommates, just friends from college.
N.M.,
Excellent psychological insights on Victor’s feelings about the three-way. I would only add: Victor also feels pressured because he and Joe are at the forefront of championing alternative relationships. He would almost be made to feel proud of his ability to try a “Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice” situation. And you’ll remember (spoiler) that B&C&T&A did NOT overcome their feelings.
(All credit to other posters if I am unwittingly repeating their ideas.)
I totally agree.
Delete it? I’m going to have it bronzed.
I mentioned earlier in the day that 11:00 – 11:05 is an amazingly short amount of time to retire upstairs, take a shower, dress, and type and save a message to the wife at 11:05. Considering typing the message would have taken 30 seconds, that leaves 4.5 minutes to do the rest!
Interesting stuff, Bea. I’m going to have to read a few times to really digest it.
The one thought that immediately jumps into my head is this…..if Joe et al DID retire to bed at 11pm, then Robert would have had to take a lightning fast shower, dry off, dress and return to the guestroom in order to type a message to his wife at 11:05 and another to a colleague at 11:08.
I don’t understand the part of the alibi about the “moans”. Since Robert was incapacitated, could he have even made the sounds? Is the murderer supposedly moaning? Why would the murderer be moaning? I know alot of the alibi doesn’t add up, but I haven’t seen too much discussion about this aspect of the alibi. I agree that it doesn’t make sense that they heard moaning, but not any of the other sounds a supposed intruder would have made.
Not too long ago, a few of us were discussing what kind of drugs and what effects they had…..I remember posting something about ketamine and that although ketamine can render someone basically paralyzed, someone could still communicate. A gutteral moan could come from someone that has been incapacitated with ketamine. Could the recite the alphabet with precision? No. But their vocal chords are not paralyzed. They could moan or even talk (albeit garbled.)
It could have been Dylan or Joe moaning from doing something sexually.
One wonders if Lance’s unusual silence on these postings suggests that he agrees with them.
One can wonder all one wants. I occasionally get busy with other things in my life, and now that I’m back at my computer I haven’t the energy to read through everything.
Wasn’t there speculation that the tv watching neighbor watches in a 3rd floor room, thus it would be adjoining?
It was speculated it was a second floor room.
I think the editors confirmed recently that it was the 2nd floor…..eds?
CD – We surmised, not confirmed. –Craig
One thing about the third floor of 1509 is that while it shares a wall with 1511, it doesn’t share a wall with 1507, which is only 2 stories. If I’m not mistaken. FYI.
I guess if Victor wasn’t out of house when Robert arrived, it might instead be that Victor retired to the third floor early because he didn’t want to look Robert in the face at all. I’m repeating what other people have already commented again, but… perhaps Victor told Joe – whatever, I don’t care, I’m going upstairs… thinking, in denial, that nothing would really happen. Joe and Dylan met Robert on the first floor, then Dylan (or Joe) went up to his room and got the syringe. Finally Joe (or Dylan) brought Robert up to the second floor bathroom to show him how to use the shower, which was somehow “malfunctioning”… Joe grabbed Robert and Dylan came up behind and stuck him (or vice versa). Assault ensued in second floor bathroom and guest room until Victor started hearing the sounds (the “groans”); he realized Joe had been serious all along and the attack was really happening, came downstairs, opened the door (“intruded”), was shocked, screamed (once), and events changed course.
It’s easy for me to speculate about minutiae, such as how the kitchen conversation figures in the murder. The specifics of the stabbing have taken longer to consider; re-reading the ME’s report, the following detail stood out and supports my belief that this murder was premeditated:
The stab wounds were in three distinct areas of the torso. I would have thought that a killer acting out of rather sudden rage or panic would stab three times in quick succession, resulting in wounds relatively near one another; instead, according to the coroner’s report, the first stab wound was to the heart; the second was on the other side of the chest, into the right lung; and the third and final stab wound was to the stomach.
I believe that Robert Wone was paralyzed, lying on his back, while his murderer(s) looked down at him and, with deliberation, stabbed him in the heart; pulled the knife out; aimed at a separate area of the chest; stabbed again; once more raised the knife; aimed at a third area of the body; and stabbed again. If that doesn’t rise to the level of first degree murder, what on earth does.
I don’t think each of the three men stabbed Robert once, although Joe and Dylan might have each stabbed Robert at least once. That would help explain why Victor hasn’t turned on Joe (he knows that Joe directly participated in murder); and why Joe and Dylan haven’t turned on one another (if each actually stabbed Robert).
I had thought that Price and Ward got together in Ward’s bedroom, out of respect for Victor. I also thought Ward’s room was larger than it apparently is, but trust N.M. that the room was small. Now, I also believe Ward and Price got together in Joe’s own, much more comfortable bedroom, with its adjacent master bath.
As for Victor’s sensibilities: Was Victor usually expected to vacate his own bedroom? Surely he wasn’t always out of town, or otherwise out of the house. Maybe he was present, doing his best to make the relationship more “equal,” participating as much as he was able by taking pictures? Maybe Victor came home unexpectedly, saw the tie on the doorknob and only intruded when he heard unusual sounding moans, or, alternatively, walked in with the camera ready, and screamed at what he saw?
Every time I speculate about possibilities, and acknowledge just how speculative and fantastic they are, I have to remind myself that, in the end, there is evidence that a human being was incapacitated, sexually assaulted, and murdered.
NM says: “I would have thought that a killer acting out of rather sudden rage or panic would stab three times in quick succession, resulting in wounds relatively near one another;”
I’ve read a variety of forensic publications on this very things…..the concensus is that rage attacks DO create stab wounds in random areas. However, they DO NOT create wounds with nearly identical angles. As was in the case of Robert Wone. Rage attacks are typically willy-nilly, I guess you could say. All over, at different depths and at different angles. Robert’s wounds were at the same, nearly exact angles and depth. This would indicate slow and deliberate stabbing.
CD, could part of the reason that most rage attacks are willy-nilly in the placement of wounds be because the victims were not incapacitated, and were therefore moving around, trying to defend themselves and get away, contributing to the distribution of the wounds? I guess I meant that if Joe was filled with rage and went to stab Robert, the wounds would be relatively close BECAUSE Robert was unable to move away from the attack.
If that makes sense.
Absolutely…..but the inconsistent pattern for rage attacks still exists on victims that died before the stabbing ended. A lot of it is the assailant’s own movement. Unless the assailant is robotic in their movements, there is going to be variation even on a deceased (or in this case incapacitated) victim.
As I recall the affidavit, the coroner specifically characterized the knife wounds as being “clean” with no drag marks. The fact that Wone was incapacitated probably had a lot to do with this.
But I also imagine that — as opposed to a violent, “I’M GOING TO STAB YOU WILLY-NILLY” — it was a more STRATEGIC stab. Like, “I’m going to take this knife, while you’re unconscious, and stab here … here … and here ….”
Maybe that’s just my active imagination. LOL.
But, it does not sound like a “violent” knife attack, like the PSYCHO shower scene.
Oops, CD, not me with the “rage” comment. No harm no foul. [I now think the wounds were made slowly, for the camera or just for gratification. I hope very very very much that I’m wrong.]
I keep doing that! KM / NM!!
CD, it’s because N.M. and I are closer than most people know. . . (coy wink toward N.M.)
Seriously, though, N.M., I suspect that while Robert was very much awake, he was also very drugged up with ketamine or the like and unable to comprehend the horror of his situation. Small mercies, if accurate.
Fascinating, thank you for the word “strategic.” It helps convey what I think was going on.
The exterior dimensions of Dylan’s bedroom are 12′ x 14′. On the interior, subtract the thickness of the walls and the dimensions of the closet. I don’t recall what the dimensions of a typical full size bed are (or a twin or queen)…. Add perhaps one or two more minimal furnishings, the clearance you need for the doors to the room and the closet, and there isn’t a lot of floor space left over for several men to be moving around in there. Then again, size is relative….
Not to mention, if anything took place in Dylan’s room, then it probably would have taken place on the bed itself (perhaps that’s why a drop of blood is on the bed, if it is, indeed, Robert’s blood).
Considering sexual assault and murder are extremely intimate encounters, not much room would be needed.
While I’m not convinced that it was quite as premeditated (at least anywhere other than in Joe’s head), you have me rethinking whether Dylan was the primary actor in this. This may be in keeping what the police/DA “know” but we don’t based on full review of all interviews and other evidence – my point being the “why” behind arresting Dylan. If they thought that he was less culpable than Joe, perhaps one good reason to arrest him before the others, while he was in Florida (and to take a month to get him transported), would be to work on him, let him realize just what jail life is like. Too, he’d be isolated from Joe, maybe think about trying to (partially) save his own neck. I’d love to think he’s already turned state’s witness and is working with the prosecution to get Joe on tape admitting things, but I doubt it. If he talked, likely that Joe would already be charged with murder. The only hope on that score is that because his testimony may be compromised because he was drug-addled would necessitate having him go back into the fray in order to clean up his testimony on the stand (and possibly, though even less likely, wear a wire once in a while – Joe probably likes him without clothing).
But a girl can dream.
Bea and others,
good week end to all. from the beginning i was of the opinion that ms. dylan ward was f*@%ed up and did this act; and the other gals, led by ms. attorney price, covered for the mess. i am now keeping options open to price’d direct involvement — thanks for sharing the wonderful and thoughtful theories. i, like many of you (i think) still belive victor is least involved — all thr more reason he should head for the hills. love and a short work day,
Bea, I changed my thoughts about Dylan being the primary assailant a long time ago. I’ve mentioned previously how he was basically kept by Joe. A true dominant wouldn’t care for that. I think Joe topped from the bottom (Dylan was a service top as other’s have called it). As things unfold, it seems more and more like Dylan has a very a passive persona and Joe is the controller. I think Joe, with his narcissictic drive decided he wanted Robert to fulfill some inward fantasy. And I think his sexual addiction got the best of him.
Bravo!!