Spinning in Orbit
A major focus lately in this case has been the extended family of Joe Price, attempting to assemble the dynamics, interactions, and interpersonal relationships of the individuals surrounding the Defendants.
Social Orbit of Joseph Price
Recently popularized with Web 2.0 applications, social network mapping has been used in sociology to connote complex sets of relationships between members of social systems. From Wikipedia:
“social network analysis produces an alternate view, where the attributes of individuals are less important than their relationships and ties with other actors within the network. This approach has turned out to be useful for explaining many real-world phenomena, but leaves less room for individual agency, the ability for individuals to influence their success, because so much of it rests within the structure of their network.”
Is this the case in the immediate social network of Joe Price? By examining the actions of Joe’s brother Michael Price, his domestic partner Louis Hinton, their living arrangements, and dependency or perhaps interdependency on Joe, we have attempted to lift the curtain to reveal motives, behavior, and outcomes as related to the tragedy of Robert Wone. Will the outcomes of this case really be less dependent on the individuals themselves or influenced more by the structure of their network?
Joe Price was one of the pall bearers for Robert Wone, generally considered an honor and expression of good will to the deceased and their loved ones. After all, Joe was a close friend of Robert. A closer examination of Joe’s network and involvement in the memorial of Robert Wone reveals an expressive and spiritual remembrance written by Louis Hinton and posted to Robert’s Memorial Guest Book:
Robert Wone Memorial Guest Book - by Louis Hinton
-Michael
This map is revealing not only for what it clearly shows, but also for what is missing: The identities of literally hundreds of OTHER people who are close buddies, friends and acquaintances of the four intimates (I include Sarah as one). In particular, we are missing the knowledge, insight and observations they can contribute to solving this murder.
I hope some astute urban and social network sociologists are observing how many elite DC lawyers, gays, Dupont Circle professionals, S&M participants, acquaintances, lesbians, family members, water sports enthusiasts, friends of family members, tricks and neighbors have circled their wagons to protect four of their very vulnerable peers; in spite of obvious and overwhelming evidence that the 1509 Swann St. conspirators actively initiated a premeditated, gruesome sexual assault and murder of a wonderful human being.
Take for example, the words of Jule Banville, Assistant Managing Editor of the Washington City Paper; who is a main story idea gatekeeper at (supposedly) the metro area’s leading investigative weekly, reporting on the crime:
“Both my husband and one of our dearest friends went to college with Robert and with Arent Fox attorney Joe Price, one of the three men who lived in the house where Robert was killed. I know Joe, his partner, Victor Zaborsky, and Dylan Ward, who was charged last week with obstruction of justice, tangentially and have been to the Swann house a couple of times for cocktails. All three of them are funny and sweet and I have seen true acts of kindness from them regarding our mutual friend.”
Fair and good-minded people would ask, “what would posses Victor, Dylan, Joe and Sarah to conduct such a gruesome murder and then conceal such a heinous event?”
Others, like City Paper editor Banville, it seems, would rather frame the investigative question as, “How do you know that such nice people could ever possibly do that?”
Defenders of the Swann House Quartet who have actually carefully read the entire affidavit are morally bankrupt. All of them are just one catastrophic, traumatic event away from also applying chloroform or injecting K, banashing knifes, and pleading, “Out damn spot, out I say!” before the paramedics arrive. One sniff and you know every Swann House Quartet defender is made out of the same cheap ethical cloth as Sarah, Victor, Damon and Joe.
An important qualifier: Of course, this is a sweeping generalization of a frequently observed phenomenon surrounding this particular case. But an opposite and more hopeful phenomenon has also been seen. There has been an even greater rising of people who – in spite of their close proximities and personal affections with different members of the Swann House Quartet – are nevertheless intent that justice be done concerning the people that terminated Robert Wone’s life. Impressively, best friends, co-workers and family members of the Quartet have and continue to come forward with evidence because they are anchored in values and faith that run deeper than the preservation of their tiny and ever-changing tin-cup social tribe allegiances.
Well said, Grisham.
Yes, well said Grisham.
It brings to light less of a “not in my backyard” mentality and more of “oh they cannot be involved because who they are” ….which was echoed when Michael Skakel killed Martha Moxley.
I am somewhat perplexed by this “oh they cannot be involved because who they are” idea that keeps cropping up here. Who were they?
Victor was a mid-level manager at a trade association. How many 1000s are there in DC?
Joe just made partner at 34 at a B-level law firm in DC. How many 1000s are there of those in DC? A self-destructive narcissist in the gay community? How unique is that?
Dylan was clearly slightly more than a demented aimless drifter with a bent toward causing pain to others. He squatted in a tiny bedroom and probably slightly scrapped together the rent. How praiseworthy is that folks?
Their house was crammed full of people to pay for a “lifestyle” they probably could not afford. Their decor was hardly up to the standards of Architectural Digest (PS – Black furniture is really cool until you are, say, 24. Then it is just garbage).
Joe and Victor did do some charity work with Equality Virginia (I’M WORTHY, VALIDATE ME!) …
They paid for tickets to events so they could drag out the tuxes occasionally. Well that certainly makes them noteworthy in Dupont …
Did they volunteer for say Burgundy Crescent Volunteers? Were they connected to DC Cares? How about community service (Aside from gay – I’m worthy, validate me! – causes)? Church work? Social services? Neighborhood associations? What did they do to help the large homeless population in their own front yard?
To me, “who they are” seems pretty mundane and pedestrian in Dupont’s gay culture … except, of course, for that pesky little “intruder murdered the guy in the office/guestroom” thing …
I completely agree with you. But you are missing one piece of this. I have lived here a long time and have long been amazed by how seriously people take the attempt at membership in a elusive status known as “A- Gay”. It is really striking how important these tuxedoed events are for this putative status, never mind that they are crashing bores and wastes of charity money. I have heard many discourses on just which cute bartenders are lately in fashion at A-Gay parties. And knowing the names of these
cute bartenders, or feigning to, seems to be a strange badge of honor. Is it really about bartenders? It all seems so silly but people take it very much to heart. Like all elusive things people react sharply towards any attack on it. The only good thing I can say about some A-Gay parties is that sometimes there are big bowls of delicious shrimp on offer. We have parked ourselves right in front of those bowls for the evening and had a feast. No wonder we weren’t invited back!
I SO agree with you CC…..there’s that yearly orgy HRC sponsors, and the lesbian A-fest the Mautner Project puts on, (where lesbians don their first cocktail dress and stumble around in heels then can’t manage, just to be around a D-list celebrity.) I’d love to pay $150 a ticket to see RuPaul.
Swann: I understand the principle you take with my framing the issue “oh they cannot be involved because who they are,” but I was using Grisham’s to dialogue how people think. I agree that these three men are not special; however, they certainly have stronger financial backing than many many other people in this city. Since you lived on Swann Street, you were one of the lucky ones. Yes, there may be 1,000’s in Washington just like the residents of 1509, yet there are 10,000’s of us nonprofit hard working gay men in this city who cannot comprehend a $2.5 million home in a (recently created) upscale neighborhood, nor to buy rental properties, or drive BMW’s.
No, many of us are scrounging with our partners to pay: off our undergraduate and/or advanced degrees; a $1,200 a month rent for a shoebox apartment; car payments; etc. To us, the concept of a three or four storied townhouse where we can throw lovely cocktail parties where we have the space to gather more than 6 people in one place is far out for many to reach a “Gay American Dream.” Some may be jealous of the 1509 lifestyle, while others find comfort and ease in their true selves and social economic status. Others may want in on the action and want information on how to make it happen in their own lives.
We can tear down these three men on principles outlined on this blog, yet you have to hand it to them, they were living a comfortable life many of us may never see (especially in the current depression).
I believe this is the base undertone to the perception that these three men are viewed as “special.”
Anon, I fully understand where you are coming from my friend. Part of the “issue” with our boys, as it appears to me, is that they lost their souls. More is indeed more, no doubt … but it often comes with a price. If you lose control and perspective in the money-grab, if you begin to think you are “better than, smarter than”, if you think “the rules don’t apply”, often you find that, one way or another, the cash and prizes go away. If you define yourself by your possessions and status, and then you no longer have them, you have no self. It’s a double-edged sword …
1509 Swann Street was sold by Joseph Price and Victor Zaborsky on June 3, 2008, for $1,475,000…..but nonetheless, the trio lived, what appears on the surface, a monied life. The 3 combined, with Price’s upper level associate salary at $250K or more, Victor’s mid management salary of $100K, and Dylan’s hanger-on salary of $50K, brought in $400K a year. Break that down, that’s probably in the vicinity of $20K a month. A million dollar mortgage will eat up $10K of that (or less if they put down the Constitution ave equity)….that’s $10K or more left for utilities, sex toys and Dylan’s new shoes.
SO, take out another $3-5K for dental bills, credit cards, phone, cable, food for 3 people, etc. etc etc.
$5K or so left over for the sex toys and drugs.
Even that guestimation isn’t too shabby.
I suspect Joe made more than $250k as a partner. That’s pretty low for law partners in general. Associates at bigger firms, with bonuses, make over $200k. I read somewhere (possibly AbovetheLaw.com) that profits per partner there were about $1.5 million a year. So unless the firm is out to screw over even partners, (which someone like Joe must’ve enjoyed, har har) he probably got paid much more.
Very true Anon but alas our poor dear friend Joe had only been partner for two months when “the intruder murdered Robert in the office/guestroom” … not much time to save for a lifetime of being functionally unemployable.
On the other hand, where they’re all going, Joe won’t have to worry any more about providing a roof over everyone’s heads, putting food on the table, paying for everyone’s wardrobes, and covering their fitness club memberships.
Indeed, Grisham!
don’t forget providing booty bumps for the gang.
tina in every pot . . .
echo that….Joe hadn’t had the “luxury” of that whopping partner’s salary yet…..just a whopping associate’s salary.
Banville’s husband is, to my understanding, Lee Banville, editor of the News Hour On Line and former editor-in-chief of the Flat Hat (the W&M student paper). Not surprisingly, one of Joe’s defenders removed from the Wikipedia page on Robert’s murder the criticism of the City Paper for its bias based on Jule’s relationship, through Lee, to Joe. However, the Wikipedia page kept the City Paper’s criticism of the MPD investigation.
The average person has a social network of around 100 to 150 people. Of these, perhaps a half dozen are close personal friends. While the Swann House Quartet certainly had overlapping networks, there are certainly a number of important bodies currently missing from this revealing map of their universe.
Ditto John … One look at Joe’s online perv profile indicates quite a few “bodies” (I couldn’t help it, sorry) missing from the network …
Louis Hinton’s remembrance: In his “sorrow,” Louis inadvertently blurts out his apology about his complicity, “I know the tears of SORRY.”
I just find it odd that Louis, a man thrice removed from Robert Wone, entered such a heartfelt remembrance. It was lovely, but why?
Yes, agree. Odd that Louis would have taken it upon himself to write an entry and the phrase “I know the tears of SORRY” is certainly interesting. Did any of the Defendants also include an entry, do we know?
None of the three Defendants wrote remembrances in the online Memorial Book. The link takes you to page 2 of the book, which is being maintained online by 3 of Robert’s friends. Here are the links to page 1 of the Memorial Book, and page 2.
Michael, editor
It says at the top that it is maintained by his friends- Phil and 2 other people.
You are correct, and the comment has been corrected.
Michael, editor
Nice. I thought the same as well John …
seemingly freudian…
Yeah, because no one ever uses the wrong word when typing. I wonder what deep intricate facts it reveals about Grisham’s psyche that he refers above to “banashing knifes”–“banashing” isn’t even a word. Brandishing? Banishing? Perhaps by inadvertently referring to “banishing knives”, he’s telling us that he was the one who removed the murder weapon from the scene.
L-ants, why are you now devoting so much of your life on this site debugging the increasingly obvious case against the Swann House Quartet?
“Increasingly”? How can it be “increasingly” when there hasn’t been a single actual piece of new evidence since your beloved one-sided affidavit?
The reason I’m devoting any of my life to it is that I cannot stand to see you people jump to conclusions in defiance of logic and the law. Why are you devoting so much of your life on this site to insane theories of how and why they’re guilty, when it’ll have no effect at all on the trial?
Did I hear something?
Hmm….guess not.
Lance, we all know that once the trial concludes and the perps are all found guilt, you will be first to whine that the verdict was “one sided.”
I continue to be amazed at what you “know”.
Thank you Lance for the nice compliment!
Oh, there’s plenty of weirdness in that entry.
‘My love one lives within.’ That suggests something; I’m not sure what.
‘My prayer is that God brings the understanding to you. Because He loves us all!’ Sounds almost like asking for forgiveness for something.
I wondered if a book of prose were close at hand when he typed into the book. It is not as if this were a condolence book at the church.
Just a couple comments about the chart… maybe you know something I don’t but I wouldn’t have thought Kathy Wone was ever ‘close’ to Joe Price, much less Ward.
Also, wouldn’t the chart work better if the lines rather than the dots were coded by association level. That would make more sense to me since an individual has varying levels of connection with others once you get into links beyond Joe Price.
The tab on my computer reads:
“Hey Joe << Who Murdered Robert Wone?”
exactly …
Anxiously awaiting the posting of the “Orbit of Dylan Ward” …
“Hey Dylan << Who Murdered Robert Wone”
Anxiously awaiting the posting of either the “Obit of Dylan Ward” or ‘Obit of Joseph R. Price.”Tasteless…
You don’t believe what they did to Robert Wone deserves the death penalty, do you? If this sick, premeditated act doesn’t, I don’t know what does. It’s a mute point in DC, however.
No, I want convictions and incarceration. I, like (I imagine) Kathy Wone, and most of us here, want closure. I want to know what happened. Even though I had suspicions about the event, I was shocked when I read the original Ward affidavit. Now I want to know the truth. I admit I have been a bit obsessed by this from the beginning (as my blog might suggest) and I am very grateful for the guys who have really brought this to the forefront. Thank you all for your contributions; for more than 2 years I felt like I was almost alone paying attention to this. Let’s keep on looking for the murder(s).
I’m sorry, this is beyond the pale in its tastelessness. Moderators, can you please remove this comment?
Just out of curiosity Lance, what sentencing would you recommend for WHOEVER is eventially convicted of killing Robert Wone?
Life in prison. I don’t believe in the death penalty, thanks for asking. And I stand behind my comment that “anxiously awaiting” news of someone’s death is tasteless.
i applaud the chart but note a glaring error. where is the dotted line connecting price, ward, hinton, collins, brother price to the toilet? draw your own conclusions as to what that means.
this is also a story of so much wasted potential — how very sad. many never have the inteligence and opportunity that ward and price had. though one shined temporarily, both are now swirling around the bowl praying for yet another break (aquittal). victor, don’t let that happen!!!
SDI,
Do you tell fart jokes?
?
peace.
Because you mention butts and feces alot.
L.
is it just a coincidence that feces gets referenced in sentences about ms. ward and ms. price?i did realize that butts are part of my vocab too; though dylan could be an ass?
i too L. have been begging the editors for more Ward threads! though the price sisters do intrigue.
love L.
She . .
My hairdresser used to regale me with tales from various sex clubs. One of the favorite pursuits at these places was stuffing up the toilet bowl so it would overflow. I eventually got a new hairdresser.
Yes but how long did it take for you to find that new hairdresser …
No, my bet is Victor goes down the tube with all the other little turds.
Thanks, guys. Great project to bring more attention to this case, which I hadn’t even heard about until I read Paglia.
I’ve taken the information that I thought most relevant from the news accounts and assembled them in a post, here: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=14686
Feel free to utilize it as you see fit, and to notify me of any errors. Am trying to drum up interest in the blogosphere.
Best regards,
Dan
I saw the Paglia thing too. I thought the letter to Paglia was a great idea. Her response really dropped the ball, though. Still I’m glad she included the item.
Jerry Clark: We can speculate as to the beginning of his relationship with Phelps Collings from Jerry’s blog posting that, “as part of my retirement, I spend time with disadvantaged people in order to understand their situation. This has been a rewarding experience for me. From these activities I have met some of the nicest people, many of whom are really trying to get back into society.”
But what do you M.D.D.C. guys know about Jerry’s connection to Joe Price?
Above, Mr. Grisham wrote:
Allow me to state outright that I resent this slur on my “ethical cloth” and that I really, deeply resent the implication that I’m “one…event away” from being a murderer myself.
Mr. Grisham, when you’re done feeling morally superior and have decided to put away scattershot character assassination as a debating tactic, perhaps you would like to remember the following fact: the affidavit you refer to represents one side’s recounting of the facts. You do not know–you cannot know–how much of that affidavit is accurate and how much of it is based on misunderstanding, misinterpretation, and speculation.
When it comes the phrase “morally bankrupt”, I myself am less likely to point at people who want to wait for all of the facts in the case to be brought out in a fair trial, and more likely to point at people who jump to conclusions before all of the evidence has been seen.
“You do not know–you cannot know–how much of that affidavit is accurate and how much of it is based on misunderstanding, misinterpretation, and speculation.”
Oh, yes I do.
Do you know something I do not?
If so, what is it specifically?
Really? Then tell. How is it that you know how much of that affidavit is accurate?
Just out of curiosity, mind you, I have to ask. Are your exceptional interns writing these arcane posts, or is this work delegated to obvioiusly overmatched substandard associates in your firm?
john grisham = she did it = the intruder who killed wone
There’s that noise again.
Oh, that’s clever, what you did there! I get it: you’re dismissing anything I say as mere noise so you don’t have to actually consider someone whose views are different than yours! And rather than just quietly ignoring me, you had to tell everyone that you were! Honestly, that’s very well-played; a rhetorical stroke of genius.
Go back to sleep, CDinDC. Its probably just Sarah entering your house and going through your freezer looking for ice cream.
What? Sarah? I didn’t hear the beep as she exited ….
Hilarious! I’m laughing out loud at my desk from those little retorts.
Grisham, you’re on a roll today! LOL
:::::clapping my hands loudly:::: Everyone! Back to your seats. :>
the other night, an interesting tidbit was posted by a new reader that knew Joe personally. The post didn’t get much notice as it came in late in the evening and by the time the board got going the next day, it had disappeared off the “recent comments” column. Here it is again (and my reply) it for those the original post. It’s too interesting to let it fade into the background. It would be nice if William & Mary dropped by again.
WilliamandMaryAlum
April 8, 2009 at 11:49 PM
I think Joe is both a chameleon and a megalomaniac. He has some need for power that may have driven him to this horrible crime. At William and Mary he seemed to want to be President of the student body simple for the offices own sake. And here is something you might find interesting. He was very comfortable with those Christian evangelicals he now disparages. One even managed his campaign. At that time Joe was in the closet.
Reply
cdindc
April 9, 2009 at 12:34 AM
interesting, will….a megalomaniac. the s/m scene makes a little more sense….i,ve heard that people that maintain a high levels of control in their lives sometimes turn to s/m as means of relinquishing that control. joe’s controlling nature has been touched on before on wmrw. did joe’s need for power show in other ways such as competitiveness? did you ever perceive any type of competitiveness between joe and robert? jealousy?
Reply
Joe was the sub in that relation, iirc, so that would make sense as far as the psych profile. As far as the needle marks, and the possibility of a paralytic or other agent, recall that Dahmer wanted to make a sex slave of various of his victims, if only he could figure out where best to bore a hole into their heads.
What’s known in this case suggests that at least two of these people were very much into fantasy role-playing. It seems that the game got out of hand, a la Hitchcock’s Rope.
Hi Dan…..nice website, by the way. I’ll have to spend sometime over there.
Ooo…the Dahmer connection is just too sick for me to wrap my head around this early in the morning!
Maybe Joe’s possible megalomaniacal tendencies and Dylan wanting to take his Dom status more seriously made for a potent mix in which someone could have said “what do you mean you don’t want to have sex with us?” Joe must have thought he was pretty special to have a vanilla boyfriend upstairs and a sex slave downstairs. Even though Dylan was the dominant sex partner, he was still kept. He made less money. He was a “renter.” He didn’t even have the priviledge of sleeping in the same bed with his sub at night. He was relegated to the extra bedroom. He kinda lost some cred in that scenario. Joe TOTALLY topped from the bottom.
CD! Topped from the bottom. Good Job!
You are hitting gold with this observation. The “bossy bottom’ is a much ignored status in gay relationships. It is for real, and causes
all sorts of mischief if not understood for what it is. No doubt these roles of top and bottom exist in nature, but in human culture the bossy bottom is, potentially, a problem waiting to happen. Though not necessarily.
Bossy bottom, Joe Price, big problem.
Bossy Bottom? I thought we were talking Dupont Circle.
“No doubt these roles of top and bottom exist in nature, but in human culture…”
I doubt, very strongly. Though that would explain the squirrel dressed in tiny leather chaps I saw the other day…..
After everything else now Dylan’s lost his damned squirrel again …
He showed up on my block recently – a bit of levity.
Corcoran Squirrel
Michael, editor
The image of the squirrel is really funny.
I imagine a big tough Hamster as the top.
“Joe the Bossy Bottom.” Wasn’t that the title of one of Dylan’s children’s books?
Good one, Grisham! LOL
There once was a bottom named Joe,
Who liked his tushie to glow,
He wanted his master to hit,
Instead he went crazy on children’s lit,
Who knew how far they would go?
Good Ole Joe “the intruder murdered the guy in the office/guestroom” Price. Our Lil Mr. Fix-It Man in his dysfunctional family (of origin). Always cleaning up everyone else’s messes. The perfect student. The replacement Dad. The hero.
He has (probably) fixed “problems” for Michael his whole life (and maybe for Mom, Dad and other family members). Always did the “right” thing. Studied hard. Did well in school. Landed at W & M with a desire to be class president. DEEP in the closet. Prolly dated the pretty somewhat shy chick who was drawn to the sensitive intellectual artsy type.
Then he arrived in Washington and at Arent Fox … BAM, Mr. SUPER GAY!! Out everywhere!
Gay groups. Gay clubs. Gay organizations. Gay bars. Gay law. GAY JUSTICE! Our Joe “the intruder murdered the guy in the office/guestroom” Price, as always, was still Mr. Fix-It Man. Step aside, I’ll make things right here. But the cracks were starting to show …
Just as the pressure built and he could no longer stay closeted, the pressure built again and he just couldn’t be the Fix-It man ALL THE TIME. What to do??
BDSM!!
Fixing is not controlling … fixing is fixing. Your role is after the fact. No one ever told our boy that you cannot control other people, places and things. You can only control your own words and actions, not those of others.
But what to do?? The pressure of it all … The sub-conscious needs to let go! And the sub-conscious latches onto the next logical gay level in an all gay all the time life.
BDSM. Complete submission the sub-conscious demanded! The one thing our boy COULD actually control is the ability to let go entirely. If he submitted entirely he no longer had to play Mr. Fix-It. Problem solved!
How sad for our friend Joe “the intruder murdered the guy in the office/guestroom” Price that he let go entirely to a homicidal maniac …
LOVE it. Great comments…..not a damn thing I can add to that!!
Good insight.
Exactly right. Make me submit, or you’re out of here? Pretty mixed up.
A related question is whether Dylan was into this stuff per se, or whether it was his way of earning room and board. Be interesting to see what’s on the computers/BlackBerry with regards to S&M sites, or whether anyone can report having similar relations with the guy.
And when you write the book, you can call it Topsy-Turvy.
I’m sure the texts between Robert and Joe that night alone would tell us volumes about what that evening was (or wasn’t) supposed to be all about. Hopefully all will be made public. Would anyone (e.g., Kathy Wone) have access to those records already?
re Joe and Dylan: I don’t know about BDSM at all beyond ‘safe words’ (which I guess they didn’t share with poor Robert). Can it be turned on and off? Like “I’m in charge and I pay the mortgage until we walk in this room, then you are in charge?”
There are all sorts of behaviors between doms and subs. Sometimes people “lifestyle”…. their behavior is 24/7. But other times, yes, it can be turned on and off. But that doesn’t mean Dylan liked that. Dylan may have wanted/needed more “respect” than he got. As Zaborsky said [paraphrased] “we’re working on make him a full partner.”
Good point, Dan. Dylan seemed like a wayward fella. International studies, masters in children’s lit, culinary school, massage school…..and I think he learned Chinese somewhere in there. It all seems a bit disjointed. Like he was trying to find himself. Was Dylan into s/m when he moved into Joe and Victor’s basement apt on Capitol Hill? Did JOE introduce Dylan to s/m? Did Dylan really like it? Was the offer too good refuse when Joe set him up with a room in the new house? Was Dylan really just a meek little guy that took orders from Joe? Maybe it was Joe that took Dylan down, and not vice versa.
That would tend to explain why Victor hasn’t been forthcoming, though he was the one the neighbor heard scream.
Which brings something else to mind…..people that know Price personally have popped their heads up here and there. Joe supposedly had a big personality. Doesn’t anyone out there remember Dylan? Was he a shy flower at all these institutions he studied at? Isn’t there anyone out there that can vouch for Dylan’s personality?
Excellent thread guys!!
We all operate here, to a large degree, from court documents charging Dylan. And yet he seems to be the one we know the least about (aside from those documents) …
Anyone, anyone. Ferris?
TK, I’m guessing it can. Seems like a freakier version of cos-play.
Remind me what cos-play is? Some things I dread googling.
NM, it’s costume-play. E.g. the French maid or the naughty nurse.
Thanks, Dan.
I had to look it up myself. Too many fetishes to keep up with. Whew.
Oo…limericks….here’s one for you…
There once was a bottom named Joe
Who trolled on the web like a ho’
A 4th they did seek
Cuz his dom was so weak
As Victor geared up for the show!
That’s not only ROFLMAO hilarious, its also one of the most concisely-worded summaries of much that was likely going on that evening.
In my very best Elvis voice: Thank you…thank you very much.
Ha! I lost my hot tea – what did not hit the monitor came out of my nose. Do you have any idea how much that hurts? Worth it though.
Thank you Sir! May I have another?
Pretty damn good!
here’s another:
There once was a bottom named Joe,with terrible secrets to stow,
at porn he did peek,
during ArentFox’s work-week,
and much worse that we yet don’t know.
hA!!
If I were to opine that this is really inappropriate, would anyone listen?
• “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” – Editors
Hopefully, the four of you didn’t spend the entire day debating First Amendment issues. It can’t be easy for a group of journalists to come to consensus on what should be censored on their website. So you know, I will be the first to defend you if you ever need to draw a line in censoring a comment when it is violently abusive to others; as in hate speech.
But my playful little limerick wasn’t. It was, as they call it, a “dirty limerick.” So I am at a loss for why it was deleted.
1. Was it simply hack poetry? Cumbersome meter and rhyme? Not true to the original Irish limerick form? Given that my many grammatically-challenged posts have not yet been deleted on those grounds, I just assumed that my attempt at poetry would be similarly tolerated.
2. Was it because humor is now inappropriate for this site? Perhaps it should be, given the tragic situation we are all addressing. Yet humor abounds on this site, and I think the editors so far have wisely recognized that it often faciliates communication and dialogue in cyberspace. If you all have recently just changed your mind on this matter, please inform us all!
3. Was it because of my “excedingly graphic languague? (LOL).” I hope that’s not why, as at the heart of this case is the question of what sexual fantasies where being played out as members of the Swann Street Household took advantage of Robert’s visit. Even the MPD has found it within them to explitedly call a “Joyrider, dildo, studded penis bindings, device designed to force the wearer to drink another’s urine, etc.” found in the Swann Street House exactly what they are.
4. Was it because what I said is obviously UNTRUE? I don’t think so. It’s pretty well documented that Culuket’s preferred sexual activity involved tweaking on drugs while dildos and other objects were inserted anally (it was recently noted that Culuket had a profile on buttmachineboys.com). And that he was into waterspots, golden showers, having someone take a leak on him, whatever you want to call it.
Or was it deleted because one of the perp’s legal teams, constantly posting under the name of Lance, succeeded in his mission to discredit any damaging portails of his client on this site? Because you obliged?
I think your first instincts about this – your First Ammendment instincts – were initially right. But you already knew that.
Which is to say, for those who have just tuned in:
“Let people speak their minds on this site, so long as they are not speaking hate.”
“Don’t censor people on this site, whenever someone is at odds with someone else.”
“Let a thousand dirty limericks bloom!”
JG –
I am flattered that you would consider that we editors spent hours debating whether to censor/remove your limerick. It was actually an easy decision. I was taught that there is a time and place for levity and humor. I also recognize that what is considered appropriate and in good taste and what is not is highly subjective.
Upon reading your limerick, however well constructed or humorous it would be in an alternative venue, I felt it was inappropriate for the discussion at hand. You proclaim in your next post “Let people speak their minds on this site, so long as they are not speaking hate.” Well your limerick, however humorous to you and perhaps others, certainly bordered on defamation of character and ridicule.
Your constructive thoughts and analysis are always welcomed. “A thousand dirty limericks” are not.
Cheers,
Michael, editor
Thank you.
I don’t know what the editors were thinking, John, but I’ll share my reaction. I was uncomfortable with the direction the limericks were taking because it felt to me that Mr. Wone – and the gravity of the crime – were being left behind.
I know its not your intent to this into a joke. But, to make a big generalization, it seems like with time our most notorious crimes are transformed from tragedies into pop culture touchstones in which the murderers take center stage. The victims disappear; the horror is replaced by callousness. I recall that it wasn’t long after Chandra Levy went missing that an intern I had working for me – a guy from Modesto – cheerily announced that he was going on a “Chandra crawl” to visit the places where she used to go, drink, and whoop it up (or whatever the kids do nowadays). It was a big joke to them.
I’m not saying that that is what you were doing. I guess I just dread seeing Price and Ward become Leopold and Loeb – a punch line – while Mr. Wone is treated like a footnote.
Seems like many people here have hostility toward Joe Price.
I feel sorry for him. He is probably a good guy in many respects. Its too bad it all ended like this.
Price won’t be making fools of us though – at the very least he will be convicted or plead guilty on the obstruction charge. He may ultimately get away with murder.
I cannot feel “sorry” for anyone who can harbor information from authorities on the facts surrounding the death of anyone, let alone someone who considered them a friend for twenty years!
Part of me feels sorry for him – another part feels outrage.
I don’t think he is a bad person. I think he panicked and made a cowardly decision. He will pay for that.
If you don’t think committing rape and murder makes you a bad person – what does?
Do you believe there are no bad people, or are you bereft of feeling and morality?
Or perhaps you identify with him?
The insight of the Talented Mr. Ripley seems appropriate to “L”:
“You never meet anyone who thinks they’re a bad person.”
More hostility.
I don’t identify with him anymore than most people here do. I don’t think he was the one who raped and murdered Robert either. I think he covered it up.
To me – that makes a difference.
People have speculated about why Price would be friends with Ward. If Price is from a lower class, dysfunctional family maybe he found Ward’s background attractive – the son of a renowned cardiologist.
Or more likely, he found Dylan hot and wanted to be pissed upon and tortured by him.
In response to the first post in the thread:
Jule Banville’s husband, to my understanding, is the former editor-in-chief of the Flat Hat (the W&M student paper). Not surprisingly, Joe’s defenders have changed the Wiki page for Robert’s murder. The defenders removed citation to the criticism of the City Paper owing to Mrs. Banville’s bias, but kept on the Wiki page another City Paper columnist’s criticism of the MPD investigation. The defenders thereby cite the City Paper as authority, yet hide critique of the City Paper’s own bias in favor of Joe.