The House of Morgan
What we know about Sarah Morgan and her relationship with the three Swann Street housemates is somewhat limited. Her silence since the murder has helped ensure she remains a riddle. We’ve been told that she was initially close to Victor Zaborsky and he may have been the one to bring her into the family. We wrongly surmised several weeks back that Sarah lived with the threesome in their Capitol Hill house on Constitution Avenue. Apparently that is not the case although we are able to place Dylan Ward as residing there.
Basement unit 1509
Sarah did indeed live with at 1509, in the separate “in-law suite” basement of the townhouse. From the virtual real estate tour featured here and here, which also features the main unit, it looked to be a one bedroom apartment common to many DC townhouses except for its entries. Unlike traditional DC English basements, 1509’s rental unit did not have a streetside a front entrance. Access was either through the rear entrance which goes to the back patio, or by way of the staircase seen pictured here which went to the first floor of the house.We’ve heard varying accounts of how she may have normally come and gone to her apartment, perhaps through the main house and down or into the patio area from the Swann Street alley.
This may seem a small point but two questions arise. First, would a single woman use a dark alley as her primary entrance into the rear of the house or normally come and go through the front door?
And second, on page 8 of the original affidavit, Joe Price told the authorities that he was awakened by the sound of the security chime and thought it might be Sarah arriving home so he paid little attention to it. Price says the security system was “not engaged” at that point however. This may conflict somewhat with the mention on page 7 of the affidavit that Morgan, W-4 in the document, told police that she notified Price earlier that she had planned to spend the night with two other friends in town, Tom and John, and left 1509 at 6:00pm the night of the murder. She also told Price that she had set the alarm and that he indicated that was fine.
Security chimes and entrances can be examined another time, but it’s the evolution of Sarah’s relationship with the roommates that seems more interesting. She both lived and socialized with them and as previously mentioned was especially close to Zaborsky. Where she stayed while the house was off limits due to the investigation and search for evidence is uncertain and where she moved after the sale in 1509 isn’t clear either. But there are a few things we do know: She has lawyered up, refuses to speak publicly, and it appears her relationship with Joe, Victor and Dylan may have cooled.
A birthday party for Dylan in May of 2007, 10 months after the murder, was held at Halo, a popular P Street gay club not far from Swann Street. The party was a bit of a coming out party, perhaps their first “public appearance” since the murder that said to everyone that all is well.
One bystander who recognized them remembers seeing Sarah and the oddness of the encounter. Presumably this was a chance to visit with close friends on a happy and intimate occasion. However Sarah is recalled as appearing stiff while there, almost as if performing a perfunctory role. More to the point, while Sarah was greeted warmly by the family, it was recalled as being just a little too showy; “Oh HI!” as they hugged in that overly animated fashion that says ‘We used to be friends, but now we just have to play nice in public.’ It’s also reported she did not stay long.
Whatever Sarah Morgan knows about 1509 Swann, it seems she is no longer part of Joe, Victor and Dylan’s inner-most circle…and that she intends to keep what she knows to herself. For the time being.
– posted by Craig and Doug
I wonder if Sarah’s email, telephone, cell (communications) will be subpeoned for the criminal trial. (Although it’s not a murder trial, could show some premeditation of an “event” if she was requested to stay away that night.)
Also, I wonder if Sarah’s communications with the defendants were included in the recent civil case attempts at obtaining the defendants records.
I wonder if Sarah’s email, telephone, cell (communications) will be subpeoned for the criminal trial. (Although it’s not a murder trial, could show some premeditation of an “event” if she was requested to stay away that night.)
Also, I wonder if Sarah’s communications with the defendants were included in the recent civil case attempts at obtaining the defendants records.
There was a layout showing were the pull-out was located. It was against the wall.
>>hunched over<< good point.
You didn’t mention that renting such an in-law suite with no front entrance is, strictly speaking, against the law in the District. That is why presumably the house a few doors up took the extraordinary step of putting in a front entrance, even given the narrowness of the sidewalk. What this all means is that she was an illegal presuming that she was paying rent. My experience in ‘hood tells me that most neighbors look the other way on this breaking of the law, unless there is friction between neighbors. In such cases it is a real card that can be played against the “law breaker” because they stand to lose a lot of money if they can’t rent. But the District will enforce it if it becomes an issue. I’ve seen it happen.
My understanding is that the law requires two entrances/exits in an apartment, hence the ability to exit through the first floor by going up the stairs. But, I do believe that is why realtors describe this set up as an in-law suite.
– Michael, editor
To be defined as “an english basement” you MUST have a front private entrance. Not sure about the others.
A couple things. 1) Don’t most alarm systems ‘chime’ when a door is opened, even when the actual alarm is turned off? I suppose that Price could have turned it off to ‘look at the spider on the back porch’ and not turned it back on, which would account for the inconsistency regarding her having left it on. 2) It’s hard to tell from the plans, but it looks like the interior entrance to the basement apartment is actually through one of those doors in the dining room photo. That certainly is unusual. She’d have to walk through the living room and the dining room if she used the front entrance. I think the downstairs tenant would have to be on very comfortable terms with the upstairs people to regularly use such an entrance.
Most alarm systems can be set to chime when a door or window is opened, whether the alarm is actually set, which would account for any perceived inconsistency in the alarm on or alarm off matter. The chime is useful for monitoring the comings and goings in the household.
>>>TK says: I think the downstairs tenant would have to be on very comfortable terms with the upstairs people to regularly use such an entrance.<<<
That’s why I was wondering if they will subpeona Sarah’s records. If she entered through the front, and DWard and JPrice had something planned, they may have wanted her off-site. Perhaps there were some telling phone calls/text messages/emails between the two or three.
You didn’t mention that renting such an in-law suite with no front entrance is, strictly speaking, against the law in the District. That is why presumably the house a few doors up took the extraordinary step of putting in a front entrance, even given the narrowness of the sidewalk. What this all means is that she was an illegal presuming that she was paying rent. My experience in ‘hood tells me that most neighbors look the other way on this breaking of the law, unless there is friction between neighbors. In such cases it is a real card that can be played against the “law breaker” because they stand to lose a lot of money if they can’t rent. But the District will enforce it if it becomes an issue. I’ve seen it happen.
My understanding is that the law requires two entrances/exits in an apartment, hence the ability to exit through the first floor by going up the stairs. But, I do believe that is why realtors describe this set up as an in-law suite.
– Michael, editor
To be defined as “an english basement” you MUST have a front private entrance. Not sure about the others.
I think an “English basement” is what they have on the 1400 block – a level that is partly below and partly above ground. On the 1500 block we have what I call “Basement basements.”
Both kinds have to have two escape routes in case of fire – and because these are rowhouses, that means one in the front and one in the back. Without two escape routes you can’t get a separate certificate of occupancy, and with no certificate of occupancy you can’t get the unit registered with the city, and can’t legally charge rent.
I doubt Price and Zaborsky got a C of O, didn’t register the apartment as a rental unit, and didn’t report or pay taxes on the rental income they collected.
A couple things. 1) Don’t most alarm systems ‘chime’ when a door is opened, even when the actual alarm is turned off? I suppose that Price could have turned it off to ‘look at the spider on the back porch’ and not turned it back on, which would account for the inconsistency regarding her having left it on. 2) It’s hard to tell from the plans, but it looks like the interior entrance to the basement apartment is actually through one of those doors in the dining room photo. That certainly is unusual. She’d have to walk through the living room and the dining room if she used the front entrance. I think the downstairs tenant would have to be on very comfortable terms with the upstairs people to regularly use such an entrance.
Most alarm systems can be set to chime when a door or window is opened, whether the alarm is actually set, which would account for any perceived inconsistency in the alarm on or alarm off matter. The chime is useful for monitoring the comings and goings in the household.
>>>TK says: I think the downstairs tenant would have to be on very comfortable terms with the upstairs people to regularly use such an entrance.<<<
That’s why I was wondering if they will subpeona Sarah’s records. If she entered through the front, and DWard and JPrice had something planned, they may have wanted her off-site. Perhaps there were some telling phone calls/text messages/emails between the two or three.
I too have been thinking about this (that’s why I am back reading this thread). If Joe and Dylan had “asked” Sarah to make herself scarce that night and additionally thought that Victor would be away longer; that would be very significant. It would also go a long way towards explaining Sarah’s overriding need to have advice of counsel even though she wasn’t even there.
The peculiar, one might say intimate, layout of her apartment access (I too doubt that a single woman habitually entered her home through a patio from a darkened alleyway) made her, to a very large extent, a member of the household. Having her traipsing in and out while one was trying to subdue and assault someone would be inconvenient to say the least. There has been much speculation about Robert’s intentions in spending the night with his friends instead of going home that night yet none that I have seen about Sarah’s plans to spend that same night elsewhere with two men. Was it planned? If it was planned, when was it planned? Was she engaging in her own ménage à trois? Was she in the habit of doing this? Have her friends been interviewed and asked if they were told that Joe and Dylan wanted Sarah to be elsewhere that night?
I haven’t been faced with the need to absent myself from my residence so that another member of my household could engage in sex, seduction or drug use since I was a college student, but I can see how it might have been suggested to her that she find another place to be that night and I strongly feel that if that is the case that she should have told investigators that. I certainly hope that she did. I also hope that investigators were given leave to examine her telephone and email records during that period, though of course (being housemates) they could have just spoken to her and that can never be proved.
As for the birthday party months later; I am amazed that she would show even minimal support for them by being there. If anyone is in a position to put two and two together about this crime it would be her. I can see her believeing them on the day after the murder, but not for very long after that. Someone tell me, how long was the subsequent period when they all (Joe, Victor, Dyaln and Sarah) cohabited at Swann Street after the murder of Robert? That must have been awkward.
That’s a good question AZ – J, V & D decamped for McLean while the house was in police custody. Sarah must’ve gone someplace but we don’t know where, maybe back to Tom & John’s for a while? Talk about awkward….
At some point J & V moved back into Swann after putting it back together and at some point Dylan left for either Asia or Miami Shores. Then there’s the move to the Regency on 16th Street after the sale of 1509; Dylan’s extradition back to DC put him there or back in McLean we think.
We should reconstruct the post-murder movement of the threesome a little better. That’s a good task for us.
Yes Craig, that time-line would interest me.
It might be very valuable information to learn WHERE Sarah went while Swann was being examined/renovated – any word on the street about her CURRENT relationship to the trio (or any of them)?
“She has lawyered up, refuses to speak publicly…”
I’m a little confused by this kind of harsh tone with Ms. Morgan. This blog treats people like they are characters in some giant game of Clue, rather than thinking of them as real people who have been sucked into this tragedy against their will. Is she not supposed to get a lawyer? And, what is she supposed to say to the public? Do you not think she has said everything she knows to the police? If so, why? Where’s your proof? Does not knowing for sure mean speculation is fair game? Have you checked? I’m fine with you guys researching and writing about things here, but I have to say that I get disappointed about the tone you use sometimes. Imagine that Sarah was your sister, mother, cousin, friend, whatever, who had been tangentially caught up in this horrific mess. Would you want people snooping into her life? Would you want a presumably innocent person to have to worry — every time she applies for a new job, every time she makes a new deep friendship, etc. — people reading the musings of some rather cold-hearted guessing-gamers? I know you’ll write it off to supposed (pseudo-) “journalistic integrity” or something like that, but you still haven’t shown anything more than a vapid dilettantishness about it all.
If we assumed that everyone is innocent, there wouldn’t be any point in this website, would there?
>insert sound of crickets here<
And one more thing. LOL
>>but you still haven’t shown anything more than a vapid dilettantishness about it all<<
In defense of the editors, who else is out there trying to help solve the murder of Robert Wone. The case has been languished with the MPD for too long now, and these men have stepped up and are TRYING to do something about it.
You ask if speculation is fair game………in a murder investigation, IT IS. THAT’s how crimes are solved. You’ll get NOWHERE if you assume all hands are clean. You take the facts at hand and look at them from every possible angle. You chew it up and spit out and chew it up again. And yes, Sarah Morgan living in the basement of Swann Street is part of the facts.
All this speculation can be the avenue to bigger questions that could ultimately trigger a response in someone, somewhere.
If all are innocent, it will come out in a court of law. Is Sarah Morgan innocent of wrong-doing? Most likely. But if you can’t stand the prosecutorial heat in the kitchen…..
Gamisou – Your comment and opinion are most welcome, but to us this is not a game and we take none of this lightly. A man was brutally murdered and his killer(s) still walk the streets. This ain’t beanbag.
We take small exception with your characterization that “She has lawyered up, refuses to speak publicly…” is harsh in tone, for they are simple facts. Ms. Morgan is in the public record of the case, a key witness (W-4) and whatever we write pales in comparison to the gauntlet she has already or will soon go through.
In our opinion, the shroud of silence enveloping her and the other principals in this investigation remains troubling and does nothing to help find Robert Wone’s murderer. And because none of them have spoken out publicly, questions will continue to swirl as they have for over two years.
Lastly, if as you posit Sarah was my sister, I would counsel her to heed the calls of Kathy Wone and Eric Holder from over a year ago, and to speak up.
-Craig, editor
Craig says,
Compare:
Of course, Craig spoke up to correct that comment not long after, according to the article. But I can’t entirely blame Gamisou for getting that impression.
From what I have read on this blog nobody has accused Ms. Morgan of anything or spoken harshly about her. I think most people agree that she is an innocent party. However, given the complex facts of this case most people agree that she would have insightful information due to her close relationship with the defendants and others in their social circle as well as her living arrangement.
Personally if I were in her position I would be singing like a canary – not lawyering up. But then again I have never been in that position.
I just talked to the person who lives on Swann that I know. This person says that Ms. Morgan often left through the front door. This means that she was on very close terms with these guys. Also, to reinforce this it was added that she often was with them when they went out (presumably by the hour) to dinner. Given that she was so close, and that they are suspects, she is far from being above suspicion. Very far. The fact that she has not been helpful to the police is, frankly, incriminating. By the way, these are
my conclusions based on commonsense reasoning. As far as I’m concerned, the Editors, whom I do not know nor have never to my knowledge met, have bent over backwards to be fair.
Burned in my mind – first R movie I saw and was in 7th grade. The story line also included a reference to having to re-grout after his suicide attempt.
A.I. Gamisou = Lance = Needham Ward.
A coming out party at Halo to show that all is well in the family? Girls may have more issues than I originally diagnosed long distance.
I’ll repeat my mantra — Oh, Victor, darling; it is never too late to do the right thing!!!
Bite me, SDI. I’m starting to get really pissed off about the fact that you can’t seem to accept that there’s more than one person in the world who might disagree with you. Your petty little attempts to discredit anyone who does are starting to make me suspect that you were the intruder who killed Wone. Why not speak up, give your real name, prove me wrong?
“She has lawyered up, refuses to speak publicly…”
I’m a little confused by this kind of harsh tone with Ms. Morgan. This blog treats people like they are characters in some giant game of Clue, rather than thinking of them as real people who have been sucked into this tragedy against their will. Is she not supposed to get a lawyer? And, what is she supposed to say to the public? Do you not think she has said everything she knows to the police? If so, why? Where’s your proof? Does not knowing for sure mean speculation is fair game? Have you checked? I’m fine with you guys researching and writing about things here, but I have to say that I get disappointed about the tone you use sometimes. Imagine that Sarah was your sister, mother, cousin, friend, whatever, who had been tangentially caught up in this horrific mess. Would you want people snooping into her life? Would you want a presumably innocent person to have to worry — every time she applies for a new job, every time she makes a new deep friendship, etc. — people reading the musings of some rather cold-hearted guessing-gamers? I know you’ll write it off to supposed (pseudo-) “journalistic integrity” or something like that, but you still haven’t shown anything more than a vapid dilettantishness about it all.
If we assumed that everyone is innocent, there wouldn’t be any point in this website, would there?
>insert sound of crickets here<
And one more thing. LOL
>>but you still haven’t shown anything more than a vapid dilettantishness about it all<<
In defense of the editors, who else is out there trying to help solve the murder of Robert Wone. The case has been languished with the MPD for too long now, and these men have stepped up and are TRYING to do something about it.
You ask if speculation is fair game………in a murder investigation, IT IS. THAT’s how crimes are solved. You’ll get NOWHERE if you assume all hands are clean. You take the facts at hand and look at them from every possible angle. You chew it up and spit out and chew it up again. And yes, Sarah Morgan living in the basement of Swann Street is part of the facts.
All this speculation can be the avenue to bigger questions that could ultimately trigger a response in someone, somewhere.
If all are innocent, it will come out in a court of law. Is Sarah Morgan innocent of wrong-doing? Most likely. But if you can’t stand the prosecutorial heat in the kitchen…..
Gamisou – Your comment and opinion are most welcome, but to us this is not a game and we take none of this lightly. A man was brutally murdered and his killer(s) still walk the streets. This ain’t beanbag.
We take small exception with your characterization that “She has lawyered up, refuses to speak publicly…” is harsh in tone, for they are simple facts. Ms. Morgan is in the public record of the case, a key witness (W-4) and whatever we write pales in comparison to the gauntlet she has already or will soon go through.
In our opinion, the shroud of silence enveloping her and the other principals in this investigation remains troubling and does nothing to help find Robert Wone’s murderer. And because none of them have spoken out publicly, questions will continue to swirl as they have for over two years.
Lastly, if as you posit Sarah was my sister, I would counsel her to heed the calls of Kathy Wone and Eric Holder from over a year ago, and to speak up.
-Craig, editor
Craig says,
Compare:
Of course, Craig spoke up to correct that comment not long after, according to the article. But I can’t entirely blame Gamisou for getting that impression.
From what I have read on this blog nobody has accused Ms. Morgan of anything or spoken harshly about her. I think most people agree that she is an innocent party. However, given the complex facts of this case most people agree that she would have insightful information due to her close relationship with the defendants and others in their social circle as well as her living arrangement.
Personally if I were in her position I would be singing like a canary – not lawyering up. But then again I have never been in that position.
I just talked to the person who lives on Swann that I know. This person says that Ms. Morgan often left through the front door. This means that she was on very close terms with these guys. Also, to reinforce this it was added that she often was with them when they went out (presumably by the hour) to dinner. Given that she was so close, and that they are suspects, she is far from being above suspicion. Very far. The fact that she has not been helpful to the police is, frankly, incriminating. By the way, these are
my conclusions based on commonsense reasoning. As far as I’m concerned, the Editors, whom I do not know nor have never to my knowledge met, have bent over backwards to be fair.
A.I. Gamisou = Lance = Needham Ward.
A coming out party at Halo to show that all is well in the family? Girls may have more issues than I originally diagnosed long distance.
I’ll repeat my mantra — Oh, Victor, darling; it is never too late to do the right thing!!!
Bite me, SDI. I’m starting to get really pissed off about the fact that you can’t seem to accept that there’s more than one person in the world who might disagree with you. Your petty little attempts to discredit anyone who does are starting to make me suspect that you were the intruder who killed Wone. Why not speak up, give your real name, prove me wrong?
Dr.Ward, I am sorry about the stress caused by your son’s predicament, but don’t take it out on me — I’m out of state with an alibi. However, I would be happy to reveal my name when you answer two important questions:
1) where is your son’s missing knife?
2) why was your son, his urinal and her partner freshly showered and in robes when the EMT’s arrived?
Have you asked little Dylan? Why not? Afraid of the answers?
Yes, I did ask. My son said that you took his knife when you broke in; he’d lent it to Wone, who was interested in cutting himself for fun. He also said that the EMTs are lying about them being showered. Happy now?
Seriously, cut it the hell out.
I’m with A.I., if Sarah were your sister you would have written that “due to the bizarre circumstances of this case she has retained counsel who has recommended she not engage in conversation regarding it.”
“Lawyered up” does come across as sort of callous lingo, but maybe it’s just the kind of boilerplate that comes tripping off the fingertips of affluent, good looking, social DC gay types, or however it is one of you described yourself recently. 😉
I’m with A.I., if Sarah were your sister you would have written that “due to the bizarre circumstances of this case she has retained counsel who has recommended she not engage in conversation regarding it.”
“Lawyered up” does come across as sort of callous lingo, but maybe it’s just the kind of boilerplate that comes tripping off the fingertips of affluent, good looking, social DC gay types, or however it is one of you described yourself recently. 😉
Thank you for reminding me that Sarah Morgan could have been a friend of mine and has real job and friendship concerns. She is in an unenviable position. However, precisely because of the mystery surrounding her involvement and its effects on her job and friendships, I do not understand why she has not made several things known. The Affidavit, I believe, reported that when Ms. Morgan asked Joe Price whether she should talk to the police, he told her he had given them her information and they would contact her if necessary. I, too, might have waited for the police to contact me, and might have lawyered up when my friends and landlords/housemates seemed to become persons of interests in a murder. Witnesses are asked not to speak to the press, and I understand this too.
But I would want it known that finding Robert Wone’s killer(s) is important to me, and that I am cooperating fully with the police. Any knowledge I have could potentially exonerate my friends, and is not mutually exclusive of believing in their innocence. (Unless I have direct evidence of their guilt. If I had direct evidence of their participation in a murder, I wouldn’t be able to live with the burden, and certainly wouldn’t expect anyone to hire me or want to be my friend.)
Especially, though, I would have asked to meet with Katherine Wone, who made a public appeal for information at the anniversary of her husband’s murder. Even if I had no information, I would want Ms. Wone to hear that from me personally.
Perhaps Sarah Morgan has taken these steps. Getting that information out through her lawyer could only help her.
Thank you for reminding me that Sarah Morgan could have been a friend of mine and has real job and friendship concerns. She is in an unenviable position. However, precisely because of the mystery surrounding her involvement and its effects on her job and friendships, I do not understand why she has not made several things known. The Affidavit, I believe, reported that when Ms. Morgan asked Joe Price whether she should talk to the police, he told her he had given them her information and they would contact her if necessary. I, too, might have waited for the police to contact me, and might have lawyered up when my friends and landlords/housemates seemed to become persons of interests in a murder. Witnesses are asked not to speak to the press, and I understand this too.
But I would want it known that finding Robert Wone’s killer(s) is important to me, and that I am cooperating fully with the police. Any knowledge I have could potentially exonerate my friends, and is not mutually exclusive of believing in their innocence. (Unless I have direct evidence of their guilt. If I had direct evidence of their participation in a murder, I wouldn’t be able to live with the burden, and certainly wouldn’t expect anyone to hire me or want to be my friend.)
Especially, though, I would have asked to meet with Katherine Wone, who made a public appeal for information at the anniversary of her husband’s murder. Even if I had no information, I would want Ms. Wone to hear that from me personally.
Perhaps Sarah Morgan has taken these steps. Getting that information out through her lawyer could only help her.
I think its appalling that she didn’t talk to the police, and the police didn’t talk to her, for days. What the police could have been thinking is beyond me. As for what she was thinking – there are only two possible reasons why she didn’t talk to the police right away.
1. She was terrified, because she thought she might know something that in some way made her responsible for what happened. For example, if Joe or Victor warned her ahead of time that they were going to have guests over that night, and things could get noisy, and their activities would be private…. so perhaps it would be better if she stayed overnight somewhere else. And then she did, and the murdered happened. —- or —-
2. She’s incredibly naive and doesn’t have a self-preserving bone in her body, or she’s incredibly self-absorbed and selfish.
Because lets face it – if a major crime happens IN YOUR HOME, even if the main part of the house is separated from your area by a single locked door – you want to know everything there is to know about it. Immediately. You want to talk to the police to hear directly from them what happened, how this person got in, if you’re still at risk.
You may not want to share all the details of your personal life with them, but you certainly want to find out everything you can to protect yourself. And you want to make sure you’re not suspected of anything; you want them to know you’re not hiding. And you know that you may not realize what information you have might be useful (did you receive any packages that week? notice anyone strange in the alley? etc).
At least, that’s the way a normal person would react. A highly secretive person — or totally self-absorbed if-I-close-my-eyes-it-will-go-away, whew-it-didn’t-happen-to-me-so-I-guess-I-don’t-need-to-care type of person — might sit around waiting for the cops to call them, days later.
But a normal adult person with an intact set of values does her best to find out what happened and makes a point of being useful and helpful to the best of her ability.
I don’t know Sarah Morgan, but what I know of her is not flattering.
Again, folks, don’t you get what this website is all about? It’s not about licking people’s wounds. It’s about apprehending murderers.
If anyone has any good arguments for the defense besides “innocent until proven guilty,” bring it on.
To date, I haven’t heard any.
Except for the big spider, of course. :>
>> Except for the big spider, of course. :> <<
Yeah, CDinDC, the absurdity of that alibi for turning off the alarm is truly jaw-dropping.
Again, folks, don’t you get what this website is all about? It’s not about licking people’s wounds. It’s about apprehending murderers.
If anyone has any good arguments for the defense besides “innocent until proven guilty,” bring it on.
To date, I haven’t heard any.
Except for the big spider, of course. :>
>> Except for the big spider, of course. :> <<
Yeah, CDinDC, the absurdity of that alibi for turning off the alarm is truly jaw-dropping.
Wasn’t there blood evidence on one of the doors leading down to Sarah Morgan’s apartment? Trashbags full of bloody towels and the knife could have been temporarily stored there.
Did the police immediately search her apartment? Or did they require a warrant if the apartment was considered separate property?
Wasn’t there blood evidence on one of the doors leading down to Sarah Morgan’s apartment? Trashbags full of bloody towels and the knife could have been temporarily stored there.
Did the police immediately search her apartment? Or did they require a warrant if the apartment was considered separate property?
Ok, then:
CDinDC: If your power of logic were as great as your power of rhetoric, we would all be in trouble: “You ask if speculation is fair game………in a murder investigation, IT IS. THAT’s how crimes are solved. You’ll get NOWHERE if you assume all hands are clean. You take the facts at hand and look at them from every possible angle. You chew it up and spit out and chew it up again.” Sounds like someone has watched “A Few Good Men” a few good times…
Craig – “shroud of silence enveloping her”…
&
L. – “Personally if I were in her position I would be singing like a canary – not lawyering up”
You are both full of it and incapable of filling other (theoretical) shoes. If (a) you had no idea what had happened and (b) these were friends of yours, you would most likely say nothing because (and here is the response to those asking Morgan to speak to Mrs. Wone) you have nothing — repeat, nothing — to contribute.
Whoever did this should be severely punished. But efforts should be made to limit collateral damage.
Collateral damage can be avoided by co-operating fully. I don’t know whether she is or not. But I don’t think remaining silent makes sense. We are talking about murder.
Hi, Sarah!
If she is remaining silent b/c of loyalty to her friends – then she deserves to be in the hot seat.
I don’t think everyone understands the, at times, severity of the s/m scene. There are people out there whose thrill is to bring people or be brought to a place most people can never imagine.
I am not into s/m, but I have know people that were. I mentioned once before that I distanced myself from some of these people because they began to cross the line on what I felt was acceptable.
The s/m scene can been very extreme. Beyond extreme. The link you attached gives a hint at what some people are into.
Joe Price admitted on his alt.com profile as being into this particular aspect of s/m. There is no telling, unless someone comes forward, of how extreme Ward and Price became.
Why are you not thinking about Robert and Kathy Wone?
A.I.,
-I want you to know again how sorry I am about Robert’s death. (We may have met at the funeral, or even at Robert’s birthday party.)
-I heard your plea, and do not want you to think I am callously ignoring it. I will let you decide if what I have to say makes a contribution.
-I believe in my friends’ innocence and don’t believe I have anything of value to offer, but want you to know that I am assisting in every way requested to find Robert’s killer(s).
-I want you to know that I am cooperating fully with the police.
-I will answer any of your questions now that my attorney thinks appropriate, and will testify truthfully if called at trial.
-Again, I am so sorry.
Personally, I think that is a LOT to contribute. I suspect that if Kathy Wone were your friend you would hope Sarah Morgan would talk to her, even if only to assure her that you have, in fact, nothing to contribute.
Well, Gamisou, you are just dodging and weaving. If the DC Police were sharper Ms. Morgan would already be under indictment. She deserves zero sympathy given that she has not helped bring this to a close. It is ethically perverse, as is your feeble defense of her position. This blog exists only because this whole case has been a blight on this neighborhood. A beautiful neighborhood where gay and straight have gotten along nicely by and large. I wish this whole group of lowlifes would never have moved here. Since you seem to know them please make sure what is thought of them. Joe Price, complete lowlife. Zaborsky,
pathetic enabling lowlife. Ward, creepy slimy half-baked talent lowlife. Ms. Morgan, most evil
faghag ever.
Sarah Morgan may have lived in the basement apartment but she was not just a renter at 1509 Swann Street. She most often used the front door to enter that house. Even when she entered the property from the alley, she used the upper rear entrance into the main house, rather than the basement entrance into her apartment. Guests who visited her used the front entrance to the house. Sarah and the three upstairs housemates had unhindered access to each other’s “living quarters” even when the other parties were not home. They regularly borrowed stuff from each other’s spaces without asking for permission to do so. Sarah could often be found driving Joe and Victor’s car, even when they were out of town. These people even vacationed internationally together. I could go on and on about how intermingled Sarah was in the lives of the boys upstairs.
I’m sorry SNS: how do you know that when Sarah entered the house from the alley, she used the upper entrance to the kitchen rather than her private entrance. That’s not exactly a public area. Who’s been peering out of windows? And why weren’t they the night of the murder? And Sarah was ‘found’ driving their car (and where was this car parked anyway? Outside of the rear locked gate? Just curious)
I think you have raised some important questions. Seeing her come and go from the front door is one thing, as I have indicated. You don’t have to be peering out of windows to see people leaving their house over a long period of time. But as to seeing her go out the back, that is another question. Though one accepts the desire for anonymity here, a certain amount of identification would be presumed if SheKnowsSomething’s statements were true. Since 1509 has and had a gate in back the only people who could see the matters in back would be two or three houses on T Street from their second floor windows. The person I know on Swann tells me that no memory remains of seeing them ever get in a car on the street. This means that they had to be leaving out the back. Who would be able to tell who was in the car from that angle?
TK,
I’ve been in and out of that kitchen door, and in that car with Sarah.
Well SNS, sounds like you should (or hopefully have) gone ‘on and on’ about your apparently intimate knowledge of these people to the proper authorities. This was a murder, and any information might aid them in finding the killer(s).
Sarah Morgan may have lived in the basement apartment but she was not just a renter at 1509 Swann Street. She most often used the front door to enter that house. Even when she entered the property from the alley, she used the upper rear entrance into the main house, rather than the basement entrance into her apartment. Guests who visited her used the front entrance to the house. Sarah and the three upstairs housemates had unhindered access to each other’s “living quarters” even when the other parties were not home. They regularly borrowed stuff from each other’s spaces without asking for permission to do so. Sarah could often be found driving Joe and Victor’s car, even when they were out of town. These people even vacationed internationally together. I could go on and on about how intermingled Sarah was in the lives of the boys upstairs.
I’m sorry SNS: how do you know that when Sarah entered the house from the alley, she used the upper entrance to the kitchen rather than her private entrance. That’s not exactly a public area. Who’s been peering out of windows? And why weren’t they the night of the murder? And Sarah was ‘found’ driving their car (and where was this car parked anyway? Outside of the rear locked gate? Just curious)
TK,
I’ve been in and out of that kitchen door, and in that car with Sarah.
(just taking note of what ‘Gamisou’ means in greek…)
LOL aiG, thinks they are being tricky with that greek moniker. Not.
Can’t decide if my earlier post was too obvious or people are too lazy (trusting? incurious?) to google pseudonyms. ‘Gamisou’ means ‘f**k you’ in Greek. I think that angry pseudonym alone damages the validity of anything this person says on this forum. Obviously not some idle choice.
Gamisou sounds a lot like someone we know as Culuket …
Anyone know if A.I. means anything?
>>>>A.I.G says: CDinDC: If your power of logic were as great as your power of rhetoric, we would all be in trouble: “You ask if speculation is fair game………in a murder investigation, IT IS. THAT’s how crimes are solved. You’ll get NOWHERE if you assume all hands are clean. You take the facts at hand and look at them from every possible angle. You chew it up and spit out and chew it up again.” Sounds like someone has watched “A Few Good Men” a few good times…<<<
Come on aiG, give us something to chew on. What’s your opinion of what happened that night?
Not beyond a reference to Artificial Intelligence
“A.I. Gamisou” is simply a transliteration of “αι γαμήσου”, (‘ai gamisou’) the full phrase meaning “f*ck you” in modern Greek. I wonder if any of the parties involved knows Greek?
yeah, or maybe Cluck U.
Like your moniker too, Jodas. 😉
Back to the evidence. I heard nothing about blood traces near the entrance to SM’s apt. I did re-read today that the room Wone was found in was where there were lots of traces of blood (on walls and floor) that had been cleaned, suggesting he was indeed killed there. (I had speculated earlier that maybe he had been moved there, hence the lack of blood).
We need to keep asking:
How he was in a condition where he could be stabbed alive 3x and not apparently fight back (no defensive wounds; but signs of suffocation from his eyes);
How and why there could be so many needle-marks, where one shot of ketamine could have left him effectively paralyzed (as I understand it). I would assume someone giving those shots wanted their recipient alive. Is there some technique where he could have been administered many small doses subcutaneously? If so, why?
Why was Wone’s own semen found in and around his anus and genitals? Is this some BDSM thing I don’t get? And why was he not washed more thoroughly by the ‘washers’ since he had obviously been cleaned. Perhaps those who washed him did not know about the semen?
And the item about his mouth-guard. Either someone knew abut it and replaced it, or he was killed while wearing it. I would assume you put that in as the last thing before you crawl into bed. Yet he was found wearing a t-shirt, underwear and shorts. Who else wears underwear AND shorts to bed and lies on top of the covers, with the A/C on?
Add it up people
I don’t know, that he was hot? I am having trouble adding up what your point of view is. Can you be more explicit?
Legal Beagle that was a long post, what are yo referring to?
TK…back to the evidence….exactly.
Re blood evidence…..I believe it was the arrest affidavit that indicated although there was blood evidence in the bedroom, it wasn’t what would normally be found in a crime scene of this nature. One of Robert Wone’s stab wounds was actually in his heart (according to the autopsy report). This wound should have produced a MAJOR amount of blood. Robert Wone should have been covered in blood. His t-shirt had very small amounts of blood on it, even though he supposedly was wearing it at the time of the stabbing, and the sheets had a couple of areas of blood, but nothing indicative of a group of fatal stab wounds.
I still think he was stabbed outside of the bedroom, and if so where? Bathroom? Shower? Or was he stabbed on a surface that had been prepared for bloodshed (i.e., plastic sheeting? tarp? ) This man was stabbed THREE times. He lived long enough to digest his own blood. He would have bled pints of blood.
Ah but I wondered about another location, but according to Law.com there were lots of traces of cleaned blood in the room he was found in. Then supposedly it was cleaned up and he was redressed and laid on clean sheets.
I think now he was killed there, but all the linens placed, his alleged pajamas replaced and him redressed.
But WHY!? Why, guilty or innocent would the crime scene be so cleaned by anyone. Unless the perpetrators felt their DNA (semen, saliva–remember on TV they usually get DNA from a saliva swab) or fingerprints were on the linens.
I beleive the “lots of traces” were smears, etc. on the door casing and some on a wall, but not pooling or puddles like a stabbing of this nature would cause.
You would think the mattress would have had a signficant blood stain on it.
Unless the bed was covered with plastic or something of the sort, Robert Wone’s stab wounds would have produced enough blood to cause a very large blood stain.
I agree about the mattress, that did occur to me. Yet there was apparently a lot of blood in the room. what does that suggest? My first though is putting something over the mattress (‘just to protect from other fluids’)
Not to be graphic (sigh) but I wonder how far inside Robert Wone’s rectum the found semen. Could be very telling as to how it got there.
Any ideas of how the three lived their lives in the house when it came to atmosphere and cleanliness? From the affidavit, it sounded as if there was an OCD issue regarding the first floor.. everything having its precise place.
Someone with tendencies to keep a tidy house would be less likely to touch walls or doors and door jams on any given day, and even more less likely when fingers were covered in blood. Perhaps Robert’s body and limbs were not controlled as one or two people moved him to and from the bathroom? Although, the horror of the situation and perhaps any substances within the perpetrator’s (or perpetrators’) body would make them not care if they got blood anywhere. Only after sobering up would the realization of a clean-up occur.
Yes – I agree that they cleaned up to remove any traces of DNA.
Ward incapacitated Wone inorder to have his way with him.
I still think that Wone’s semen got into his anus b/c Ward used one of those electric devices on him – the type used on animals to make them ejaculate. Isn’t that commonly used among those into BDSM?
Ward put the semen in Wone’s anus. They missed it on the clean-up.
And does anyone know of a man who wishes something be in his anus after he climaxes? Gay or straight, I don’t know of any guys (even raging bottoms) that really enjoy anything being inserted after they cum.
That is indeed assault.
Under what conditions would massive amounts of blood not flow from a person who has been stabbed three times deeply into their torso, including into their heart?
Photos of the bed sheets that Robert was found upon are at http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1008/566109.html
Under no conditions. A live person’s heart will force the blood out of their body until their heart stops (The Med. Examiner already concluded that Mr. Wone digested his own blood, which indicates he remained alive for some time after the stabbing). Which also means Robert Wone would have lost a significant amount of blood.
A deceased person, on the other hand, will not “bleed,” per se…they will drain if moved or their body is positioned so as to allow the blood to come out. During autopsies, the blood must be pumped out.
Sooo…..where is the significant amounts of blood that would have been produced at the moment of the stabbing (while Robert Wone’s heart was still beating)? I think it went down the shower drain, as I believe Robert Wone was stabbed in the shower.
So any blood evidence on walls, etc. would have been produced while moving Mr. Wone’s body to and fro which would have forced smaller amounts of blood out of the wounds (i.e., he would have been dead when placed in the guest room).
CD – I am a big fan of your postings, but before I support your bathtub theory, I would like to know how much and where floorboards were removed for the investigation.
Someone “in the know” posted to a blog about 2 years ago and stated there was so much ripped out from the stairs and floors during the investigation that the occupants could not live there until it was repaired. I could see the trouble with stair treads being torn out, yet…there is all that other flooring mentioned. Would the police pull up each individual floor board if there was a drop of blood? Pooling blood spread out over an area I could see, but aren’t forensics advanced enough to ID a drop on-site? (Granted, we are talking about DC here.)
Blood in any tub, down any drain, or cleaned up in any clothes washer and dryer, would have likely been deemed exceedingly risky by our paranoid, obsessively-immaculate lawyer perp ring leader. While the MPD found some cleaned-up blood residue spots here and there which resulted from moving the body, I really doubt that their careful dismantling of floorboards, drains and piping detected anything. Then again, Joe had already made a few silly lapses in judgment before the blood disposal dilemma was upon them. But bloody clothes in the dryer?! I can’t imagine he was that dim-witted.
that’s such a good question, Anon. I think the only way I can reply to that is that sometimes crime scene investigators will take anything they THINK may contain evidence. For instance, if the police believed someone has been bound by some sort of cord, they will take all manner of things that could bind someone that was similar to cord and check it all for DNA evidence. The investigators may have been removing flooring that they believed could have possibly contained trace evidence, but wouldn’t know until testing was done.
Just like all of the sex toys, etc that were removed from the house. They probably took above and beyond what they figured was possibly used.
Oh my god. Are you seriously saying that using an angry pseudonym invalidates anything “Gamisou” said, when I was railed against for complaining about “She Did It”‘s choice of pseudonym and language?
I’m not too lazy to google, but I thank you for sparing me the effort 😉
Can’t decide if my earlier post was too obvious or people are too lazy (trusting? incurious?) to google pseudonyms. ‘Gamisou’ means ‘f**k you’ in Greek. I think that angry pseudonym alone damages the validity of anything this person says on this forum. Obviously not some idle choice.
Gamisou sounds a lot like someone we know as Culuket …
Anyone know if A.I. means anything?
>>>>A.I.G says: CDinDC: If your power of logic were as great as your power of rhetoric, we would all be in trouble: “You ask if speculation is fair game………in a murder investigation, IT IS. THAT’s how crimes are solved. You’ll get NOWHERE if you assume all hands are clean. You take the facts at hand and look at them from every possible angle. You chew it up and spit out and chew it up again.” Sounds like someone has watched “A Few Good Men” a few good times…<<<
Come on aiG, give us something to chew on. What’s your opinion of what happened that night?
Not beyond a reference to Artificial Intelligence
yeah, or maybe Cluck U.
Like your moniker too, Jodas. 😉
Back to the evidence. I heard nothing about blood traces near the entrance to SM’s apt. I did re-read today that the room Wone was found in was where there were lots of traces of blood (on walls and floor) that had been cleaned, suggesting he was indeed killed there. (I had speculated earlier that maybe he had been moved there, hence the lack of blood).
We need to keep asking:
How he was in a condition where he could be stabbed alive 3x and not apparently fight back (no defensive wounds; but signs of suffocation from his eyes);
How and why there could be so many needle-marks, where one shot of ketamine could have left him effectively paralyzed (as I understand it). I would assume someone giving those shots wanted their recipient alive. Is there some technique where he could have been administered many small doses subcutaneously? If so, why?
Why was Wone’s own semen found in and around his anus and genitals? Is this some BDSM thing I don’t get? And why was he not washed more thoroughly by the ‘washers’ since he had obviously been cleaned. Perhaps those who washed him did not know about the semen?
And the item about his mouth-guard. Either someone knew abut it and replaced it, or he was killed while wearing it. I would assume you put that in as the last thing before you crawl into bed. Yet he was found wearing a t-shirt, underwear and shorts. Who else wears underwear AND shorts to bed and lies on top of the covers, with the A/C on?
Add it up people
I don’t know, that he was hot? I am having trouble adding up what your point of view is. Can you be more explicit?
Legal Beagle that was a long post, what are yo referring to?
TK…back to the evidence….exactly.
Re blood evidence…..I believe it was the arrest affidavit that indicated although there was blood evidence in the bedroom, it wasn’t what would normally be found in a crime scene of this nature. One of Robert Wone’s stab wounds was actually in his heart (according to the autopsy report). This wound should have produced a MAJOR amount of blood. Robert Wone should have been covered in blood. His t-shirt had very small amounts of blood on it, even though he supposedly was wearing it at the time of the stabbing, and the sheets had a couple of areas of blood, but nothing indicative of a group of fatal stab wounds.
I still think he was stabbed outside of the bedroom, and if so where? Bathroom? Shower? Or was he stabbed on a surface that had been prepared for bloodshed (i.e., plastic sheeting? tarp? ) This man was stabbed THREE times. He lived long enough to digest his own blood. He would have bled pints of blood.
Ah but I wondered about another location, but according to Law.com there were lots of traces of cleaned blood in the room he was found in. Then supposedly it was cleaned up and he was redressed and laid on clean sheets.
I think now he was killed there, but all the linens placed, his alleged pajamas replaced and him redressed.
But WHY!? Why, guilty or innocent would the crime scene be so cleaned by anyone. Unless the perpetrators felt their DNA (semen, saliva–remember on TV they usually get DNA from a saliva swab) or fingerprints were on the linens.
I beleive the “lots of traces” were smears, etc. on the door casing and some on a wall, but not pooling or puddles like a stabbing of this nature would cause.
You would think the mattress would have had a signficant blood stain on it.
Unless the bed was covered with plastic or something of the sort, Robert Wone’s stab wounds would have produced enough blood to cause a very large blood stain.
I agree about the mattress, that did occur to me. Yet there was apparently a lot of blood in the room. what does that suggest? My first though is putting something over the mattress (‘just to protect from other fluids’)
Not to be graphic (sigh) but I wonder how far inside Robert Wone’s rectum the found semen. Could be very telling as to how it got there.
Any ideas of how the three lived their lives in the house when it came to atmosphere and cleanliness? From the affidavit, it sounded as if there was an OCD issue regarding the first floor.. everything having its precise place.
Someone with tendencies to keep a tidy house would be less likely to touch walls or doors and door jams on any given day, and even more less likely when fingers were covered in blood. Perhaps Robert’s body and limbs were not controlled as one or two people moved him to and from the bathroom? Although, the horror of the situation and perhaps any substances within the perpetrator’s (or perpetrators’) body would make them not care if they got blood anywhere. Only after sobering up would the realization of a clean-up occur.
Ward incapacitated Wone inorder to have his way with him.
I still think that Wone’s semen got into his anus b/c Ward used one of those electric devices on him – the type used on animals to make them ejaculate. Isn’t that commonly used among those into BDSM?
Ward put the semen in Wone’s anus. They missed it on the clean-up.
Oh my god. Are you seriously saying that using an angry pseudonym invalidates anything “Gamisou” said, when I was railed against for complaining about “She Did It”‘s choice of pseudonym and language?
I do think it’s incredibly naive to think that none of the defendants (and their friends) are at least reading this site (I could see a couple of those defendants being overcome with curiosity); and there is no guarantee that they are not commenting on here as well (though I assume if their attorneys knew they would advise them against it because IP addresses can be traced Hello!!).
Price had x-rated pics of him and Ward on his WORK computer; not a lot of discretion or self-control there. I mean why, really? I never understood the whole porn at work thing: what are you going to do?
Surely on his salary he could afford a perfectly good computer at home; was he hiding something from (‘go to bed early tonight and take a pill Victor, we’re partying’) Zaborsky? Macs have different user accounts, don’t PCs?
And while certainly not posting, wouldn’t the attorneys of all three defendants have at least staff monitor this (now pretty prominent) site in case the prosecution escalated and they needed a reason to eliminate potential jurors they didn’t like?
Regarding Sarah and whether or not to treat her with kid gloves or not….something my mom always said was “be mindful of who your friends are.”
Sarah wasn’t very mindful. By her own admission, JPrice was out of control. She was turning a blind eye to someone that not only had a live-in dom, but was posting profiles online to solicit 3rd- and 4th-party strangers to participate in his sexual escapades. He was drugging and partying in a completely unhealthy way. And if you drug, you need to buy drugs, which is illegal activity.
Sarah Morgan completely tolerated this illegal drug and unsavory sexual behavior. Did she participate, as well?
I have no pity for Sarah Morgan. She knew these men were out of control. And she obviously did nothing to insulate herself from it. If she had, she’d not be a topic of conversation on this website.
You lie down with dogs, you get fleas.
Sorry to be a hard-ass, but I’ll direct my sympathy elsewhere.
CDinDC, I started a long post about fag-hags and their sad dependence on their gay friends, but I’ll try not to draw any conclusions beyond that innuendo (I know some cool fag hags who are actually happily married now and just like to hang out with us once in awhile).
It is interesting that Sarah has hardly been mentioned in the media. Surely she has been questioned by the police, even though she was not there that night (on a weeknight? Why not?), when did she get home, who was she with?. And she is the only resident not charged. I originally thought one of the three men might be the object of the sqeeze… I have a feeling that phone and text messages will be extremely revealing.
But I still think (yes I am one of the few; but but my gaydar is pretty damn good) Wone was thinking/hoping for more than a chat and a sleep-over on an uncomfortable fold-out a few miles closer than home with his wife that night, sorry if I cast it that way. NOT that he in any way deserved anything that happened to him, but this case has already twisted far beyond what I first thought when I heard about it. I think Robert might have been confused, responded to overtures from his long-time friend Price, and then somehow it got tragically out of control. Robert wanted it to stop, Ward was not willing, and Price went along with his master. I think Zaborsky is an accomplice and Morgan is an accessory after the fact.
Just my total conjecture!
You are not making much sense with this stuff. He was a cute young guy. If he wanted to try guys out, why would he go for his clunky college friend with his even clunkier hangers on. He could have found himself a man asap if he wanted it. He probably was in need of a little entertainment and wanted to be around his gay friends for a night. He didn’t understand that his friend had gone off the deep end. You are assuming that the whole scene has some fascination for those outside it. I think most people think the whole leather scene is just amusing or kinda sad, for guys that aren’t very good-looking anyways. Have you ever watched Real Sex on HBO with all the chicks with whips. Does that make the gay boy in you want to get with a hot chick?
More precisely. They already had a dead body on their hands when Sarah screamed. At the very least, they knew they would be questioned the next day when Robert showed up missing (Robert’s wife knew where he intended to spend the night).
I believe at least one very paranoid member of the party was absolutely certain that the cops were about to arrive at their home any minute, following on Sarah’s screaming. Perhaps unwisely, he concluded that the “intruder murder” story would be more convincing than a “Robert never came by here” story.
Always remember that at the time, the two ring leaders – Dylan and Joe — had heightened paranoia and grandiosity due to their use of drugs. They were extremely paranoid following all that had unfolded in the previous 30 minutes: Sex play with a person they had secretly drugged, an accidental death, multiple stabbing to cover-upping that death, and then Sarah’s loud screams.
Likely, in the paranoid minds of the two drugged-up ring leaders, they felt as if the entire neighborhood had heard Sarah’s screams and the cops would be arriving any minute.
In retrospect, the perps now all likely recognize that they didn’t pick the best of all possible fabrications.
Recently found this site via Camile Paglia’s mention of it in her Salon column. Fascinating case and it’s unfortunate that this has gotten so little play in the gay press.
In my experience men who are bi/curious are probably going to look for men in situations similar to their own for sexual experimentation. A married closeted man is going to look for another married closeted man, discretion is imperative for both. There’s the security of mutually assured self destruction.
And openly gay man can’t necessarily be trusted because he may not have anything to loose by being casual with your secret. And in this case, the gay man Price, was in a complicated relationship with not one, but two other men who where both there in the house. If you’re a married man looking to discreetly experiment you generally don’t get it on with a openly gay college buddy with both his spouses present.
Leo – That seems like some pretty sound reasoning.
Ditto what Craig said.
“By her own admission, JPrice was out of control.” I would be very interested in learning more about whatever first hand accounts of the defendants Ms. Morgan (or anyone else) has offered. While I think there is value to the conjecture that takes place on this website (for example, it might lead to new avenues for investigation and fact development), I am most interested in statements made by people with personal knowledge of the individuals involved. Thank you for whatever references you can provide.
I think we are ALL most interested “in statements made by people with personal knowledge of the individuals involved.”
Who are you?
Just a grieving friend of Robert, desperately hoping some day this nightmare will be explained so we can focus our love on honoring his exemplary life of service. He really was a remarkable man. This is no hyperbole. I’m not trying to be obnoxious by asking the question I did. I just thought perhaps there was an article or some posts by those who know Ms. Morgan that provided more insight into the individuals accused. Whatever information you can provide/direct me to is most appreciated. Thank you. And since you asked, who are you?
Regarding Sarah and whether or not to treat her with kid gloves or not….something my mom always said was “be mindful of who your friends are.”
Sarah wasn’t very mindful. By her own admission, JPrice was out of control. She was turning a blind eye to someone that not only had a live-in dom, but was posting profiles online to solicit 3rd- and 4th-party strangers to participate in his sexual escapades. He was drugging and partying in a completely unhealthy way. And if you drug, you need to buy drugs, which is illegal activity.
Sarah Morgan completely tolerated this illegal drug and unsavory sexual behavior. Did she participate, as well?
I have no pity for Sarah Morgan. She knew these men were out of control. And she obviously did nothing to insulate herself from it. If she had, she’d not be a topic of conversation on this website.
You lie down with dogs, you get fleas.
Sorry to be a hard-ass, but I’ll direct my sympathy elsewhere.
Oh, and by the way folks, te jodas is spanish for f**k you. Perhaps, te jodas, gemisou and spike are the trio. In the very least jodas and gemisou and in cahoots.
you go, girl.
i am feeling your posts. keep up the fabulous work.
Actually CDinDC, jodas is spanish for ‘yeah right’ The initials before are bs, as they were for AI. They could all be aliases of the same person, playing shallow games
Thanks for the credit She did it.
Actually, the verb joder means “to f**k”. Jodas is a conjugation of the joder verb. It can mean various things depending on which dialect someone is using.
Well I hope our webmasters are monitoring IP addresses, just for the sake of intelligent discussion. It’s not fair to us to be conversing with virtual clones of the same person (wonder who) defending the same agenda.
Which does give me an idea.
OoOo, an idea….. do tell.
For the record, though it may surprise people, I’m in complete agreement with TK on this. If people are posting under different names, I’d like the editors to put a stop to it. Heck, for all we know, L., CDinDC, and She Did It are all the same poster.
(Note, though, that Gamisou and Jodas came down on opposite sides of the argument. Also, please note that I am neither one of them. I’d like to stress that, unlike most people here, I’ve never hidden behind a pseudonym, and I’m not afraid to post my opinions with my own name attached. The editors, who can presumably see my email address, are welcome to verify for themselves that (a) this is my name and (b) I am in no way Needham Ward, regardless of what the petty little mind of She Did It believes.)
The likelihood of me putting my real name on this blog is nil.
Why? Because I will not subject myself to possible harrassment in my personal life by any Tom, Dick or Harry that happens upon the board. (And I’ m not saying that anyone that has posted on this board to date would stoop so low, but internet security/fraud are a real and potent problem.)
We are dealing with a criminal element. Anonymity is crucial.
So Lance, or anyone else that wants to know the real identities of anyone on this board, just quit it now. It’s a ridiculous proposition, if not a personally harmful one.
If the editors would like my real name, I’d be happy to supply it. I know it’s in safe hands.
And by the way….I’m Jimmy Hoffa.
I agree. Anonymity is important especially because the nuts who did this murder are living on 16th Street. But let us not kid ourselves. No anonymity is absolute. I for one
would be willing to say anything I’ve said here in court. But I have a very loose connection with it all. One can only hope that those who are allegedly close to the case like SheKnowsSomething will be testifying in some way.
Hey, I’m not saying that everyone should use their real names. Mostly what I’m saying is that She Did It should stop pretending that I’m not. I’m also agreeing with TK that the editors should try to ensure that people aren’t posting multiply under different names, but that doesn’t require any name to be a real one.
Lance babe, I have not agreed with much you have said here. But you have point about the drugs. Also, why would neighbors necessarily call the police over one scream?
People scream all the time over this and that, the police would be pretty busy.
I’ve just been reading the comments in question
and you are right. If Jodas were one of the three
then that would be a very unique type of self-loathing given the nasty statements. People should take the time to read and mull it over.
Sadly, I can tell a lot of the people here are used to being in chatrooms and just blurting out responses and insights.
“ai gamisou” and “te jodas” are both translated from greek and spanish, respectively, into the same “f**k you.”
I find it VERY, if not HIGHLY coincidental that two new posters appeared on the board within minutes of each other and have both created identifying names that can be translated from a foreign language into the same curse words. In addition, the names are formatted in the same way (a.i. gamisou and t.e.jodas).
Whether they are in different camps of thought or not, it’s suspicious. Very.
Well I hope our webmasters are monitoring IP addresses, just for the sake of intelligent discussion. It’s not fair to us to be conversing with virtual clones of the same person (wonder who) defending the same agenda.
Which does give me an idea.
For the record, though it may surprise people, I’m in complete agreement with TK on this. If people are posting under different names, I’d like the editors to put a stop to it. Heck, for all we know, L., CDinDC, and She Did It are all the same poster.
(Note, though, that Gamisou and Jodas came down on opposite sides of the argument. Also, please note that I am neither one of them. I’d like to stress that, unlike most people here, I’ve never hidden behind a pseudonym, and I’m not afraid to post my opinions with my own name attached. The editors, who can presumably see my email address, are welcome to verify for themselves that (a) this is my name and (b) I am in no way Needham Ward, regardless of what the petty little mind of She Did It believes.)
The likelihood of me putting my real name on this blog is nil.
Why? Because I will not subject myself to possible harrassment in my personal life by any Tom, Dick or Harry that happens upon the board. (And I’ m not saying that anyone that has posted on this board to date would stoop so low, but internet security/fraud are a real and potent problem.)
We are dealing with a criminal element. Anonymity is crucial.
So Lance, or anyone else that wants to know the real identities of anyone on this board, just quit it now. It’s a ridiculous proposition, if not a personally harmful one.
If the editors would like my real name, I’d be happy to supply it. I know it’s in safe hands.
And by the way….I’m Jimmy Hoffa.
Hey, I’m not saying that everyone should use their real names. Mostly what I’m saying is that She Did It should stop pretending that I’m not. I’m also agreeing with TK that the editors should try to ensure that people aren’t posting multiply under different names, but that doesn’t require any name to be a real one.
I am starting to get a better feel for Joe Price.
He must have been a drug and sex fiend that was reckless and sleazy. He was also succeeding in his professional life. That must have helped keep him in denial about his behavior. The money helped fuel his dangerous lifestyle. However, sooner or later everything was bound to come crashing down.
But what a bizarre ending.
Does anyone know about his childhood or upbringing?
He sounds like a sex addict to me. Had to have pictures of himself at work. Had to have a live-in dom. and that wasn’t enough. Had to get strangers to participate. Selfishly subjected his vanilla partner to his exploits. (I assume VZ was vanilla….or more vanilla than not.) Addict, I say.
Well … Sarah once said that Joe’s and Michael’s childhood was a bit less than traditional … something about an absent mother and a ne’er do well father. A step mother is still involved in their lives, however.
Sounds like major dysfunction. One brother is an unproductive drug addict and petty thief and the other an overachieving drug/sex addict.
Sounds like a bad made for TV movie.
Makes me feel sorry for Joe Price. If you take away the double life – he is probably a really good person. Unfortunately its too late.
Spare me. A man is as a man does.
I am starting to get a better feel for Joe Price.
He must have been a drug and sex fiend that was reckless and sleazy. He was also succeeding in his professional life. That must have helped keep him in denial about his behavior. The money helped fuel his dangerous lifestyle. However, sooner or later everything was bound to come crashing down.
But what a bizarre ending.
Does anyone know about his childhood or upbringing?
Well … Sarah once said that Joe’s and Michael’s childhood was a bit less than traditional … something about an absent mother and a ne’er do well father. A step mother is still involved in their lives, however.
Sounds like major dysfunction. One brother is an unproductive drug addict and petty thief and the other an overachieving drug/sex addict.
Sounds like a bad made for TV movie.
Makes me feel sorry for Joe Price. If you take away the double life – he is probably a really good person. Unfortunately its too late.
Spare me. A man is as a man does.
I find this one of the most curious details:
Robert Wone’s wounds were at a 10:00/4:00 position. the sharp edge at 10/dull edge at 4. This would mean, as the affidavit stated, the intruder would have had to go to the other side of the bed and stab Robert Wone with the knife upside down.
This is another reason I think he was stabbed outside of the bedroom.
Most people would instinctively grab a knife with the sharp edge toward themselves (say you’re trying to chip/break a block of ice). The wounds were the opposite.
It’s as if someone stabbed him while standing over him from behind his head. That way the knife would have been in a natural position. but there would be no room to do this if he were stabbed in that bed.
What if they were hunched over right above his head? How do you know there was not enough space behind Wone’s head?
There was a layout showing were the pull-out was located. It was against the wall.
>>hunched over<< good point.
I am thinking less and less that he was stabbed in the bed. Think of the amount of blood that would have quickly gone not only to the sheets, but seep into the mattress covering and perhaps the mattress itself. The bed and room were too staged. Robert may have placed his personal items in the room, but the act seems to have taken place in another location.
It would be interesting to learn the amount and location of the flooring that was ripped out of the house during the investigation. It seems more plausible that the crime took place in another location other than the bed (hence more blood in the floorboards). This month’s trial may shed light as to the splatters on the walls and floors. The likely location for the 2nd floor is the “sitting room” that is central to the guest bedroom, bathroom, and Ward’s bedroom.
And even if Wone were stabbed in the sitting room/den by the alleged intruder, and somehow stumbled back and fell on the bed (to be found by the residents) I’d think there would be a lot more blood soaked into the bed than was found by the investigators.
And there is the mouth-guard issue… I don’t think he’d be walking around with it in his mouth.
Sorry this is off topic of Sarah, but… Re: mouth guard… might the mouth guard be used as part of the play? It is not too far away from a ball gag. Granted, not as sexy as a ball gag, but still a plastic that would absorb the pressure of a tightened jaw or biting teeth.
I’m with you 100% Anon.
Too bad we couldn’t see the house as it was furnished when they lived there.
Although I do not believe the murder took place on the back patio. Something certainly caused a lot of blood to end up on the interior staircase or the investigators would not have ripped it out. But what did go down the stairs, get bumped on Sarah’s door (from within the house first floor) and end up in the outside drain? Could they have been stupid enough to wash the body outside? I don’t think so (and I have a gut feeling that for security reasons, along with the alarm system, there would be a motion detection activated light in the back). So how could you risk carrying a body down? I wonder if any residue was found on Sarah’s interior staircase or does it appear that things were taken out the kitchen door and down the exterior set of stairs.
My guess is that the crime took place on the second floor with Robert being washed in the second floor bath. Some items had to be moved from the second floor to the back patio (maybe for removal, most likely wash down). Since all three men were freshly showered when the medics and police showed up, there was a lot of water running that night.
Question: Any idea if Sarah’s unit had its own washer and dryer? The washing of Robert’s clothing and the clean up rags happened incredibly fast for just one washer and dryer (for late arrivals, blood was found in the lint tray in the dryer). In the past I have commented that I wish I could do a load of laundry in the time frame presented. Which leads to another question (of hundreds with this case): was the murder done with Robert’s shirt on, or were the matching holes in his t-shirt cut to match after he was redressed?
I think the forensics concluded that the shirt Wone was wearing when the paramedics arrived was not on him when he was stabbed, because of the nature of the cuts on the shirt and lack of matching fibers in the wounds. I think whatever shirt Wone was wearing (if any) during the stabbing was disposed of somehow.
What plumbing is connected to the drain located directly outside the basement apartment’s backyard door?
Could blood that had been washed away in the basement apartment’s sink/tub account for the blood found in the drain directly outside Sarah Morgan’s back door?
Would blood from the main house’s pipes end up in that drain?
Iirc, the backyard hose tested for blood; would using the hose account for blood getting into that drain?
Pints of blood are unaccounted for. If the blood was contained in some kind of tarp or towels, it would be much easier and safer to simply wash it all off in an indoor tub, ring it out and transfer to the dryer. Why carry a pile of blood-soaked items down 2 flights of stairs to go outside, in the dark, and use a hose? Which would also be very likely to leave stains in that stairway, to say nothing of footprints or DNA, which is what cleaning up all the blood was meant to avoid. Since the men all appeared to have taken showers, using the hose to wash themselves also seems unlikely, and the knife could have been wiped or rinsed in the sink. The hose may have been used briefly as someone made a trip to a car.
Alternatively, if the murder took place in the basement apartment, opening the backyard door to access the drain and hose makes some sense, as does using the blood stained interior basement door to carry bloody items from upstairs to the outside drain, rather than going outside through the kitchen door.
Anon in Arlington: Sorry to repeat so much of your post; apparently we were composing at about the same time.
Re: was Robert wearing his shirt when stabbed – Due to the lack of blood on the shirt, and my belief that what the killers were after was the sight of a knife going into a motionless body and the blood pouring out, I don’t believe Robert was dressed at all when he was stabbed. So, yes, the killers were smart enough to use some knife to approximate the positions of the stab wounds, and then dress him.
Re the blood scent from the dryer:
I mentioned this once before…..It is not uncommon for there to be “bloodshed” in s/m. There is piercing of the skin. Even “cutting” and “knife play.” This could one of the reasons Dylan Ward may have had a knife set in his bedroom. It is completely plausible that the blood in the dryer was Joe Price’s.
Anyone know if Price/Ward were into cutting/knife play?
My post containing links isn’t going through, so I’ll try posting the information this way:
CDinDC, you reminded me of a NSFW site I found after reading Joe Price’s Alt.com profile at _______, and not understanding what Joe/Culuket meant about being “into” and having experience with CBT and TT (cock & balls torture, tit torture).
Googling “CBT TT images” brought up a website featuring hardcore photos from the “master.”
Bloody, and not for the squeamish.
http://www.hard-master.com/id28cbvh.htm
I don’t think everyone understands the, at times, severity of the s/m scene. There are people out there whose thrill is to bring people or be brought to a place most people can never imagine.
I am not into s/m, but I have know people that were. I mentioned once before that I distanced myself from some of these people because they began to cross the line on what I felt was acceptable.
The s/m scene can been very extreme. Beyond extreme. The link you attached gives a hint at what some people are into.
Joe Price admitted on his alt.com profile as being into this particular aspect of s/m. There is no telling, unless someone comes forward, of how extreme Ward and Price became.
And something that hasn’t been brought up, but should be addressed, is……was there anyone else in the house besides Zaborsky, Price, Ward…..and Robert Wone.
Price WAS advertising on alt.com at that time for additional participants.
I think it is important to say that such brutality is an expression of our society itself. I did not look at the the site in question. But I doubt that it is worse than what one sees on the many extreme fighting shows that populate cable TV. I for one assume a level of brutality and nastiness in other people nowadays. The strange thing is that wimpy types
like Ward and Price walk around thinking their nasty natures are their great hidden secret which gives them some cthonic power.
When in reality they are transparent in their personal subterfuge. That they lived in the house after the killing (after they had repaired it from the police) says something else about them. Perhaps they thought it might show their innocence. I think it showed their detachment. People like this think such coldness is part of their own power. I see it as a desperation. They have nothing but detachment. It comes full circle, as detachment breeds brutality, though not ineluctably. I think one piece of striking evidence from this case is that fact that these three have not killed themselves. That is detachment. If they had any decency they would have left this world of ours already.
CC, I looked at the site, and I’ve seen ultimate fighting. The site is much more brutal than anything you’re going to see on ultimate fighting.
Its one thing to get a thrill out of fighting, or watching a fight that gets called by a ref when the losing party is in serious jeopardy or can’t defend himself. Its another to get a sexual thrill from the torture and humiliation of a person who clearly can’t defend himself.
People like that are very dangerous.
I find this one of the most curious details:
Robert Wone’s wounds were at a 10:00/4:00 position. the sharp edge at 10/dull edge at 4. This would mean, as the affidavit stated, the intruder would have had to go to the other side of the bed and stab Robert Wone with the knife upside down.
This is another reason I think he was stabbed outside of the bedroom.
Most people would instinctively grab a knife with the sharp edge toward themselves (say you’re trying to chip/break a block of ice). The wounds were the opposite.
It’s as if someone stabbed him while standing over him from behind his head. That way the knife would have been in a natural position. but there would be no room to do this if he were stabbed in that bed.
I think TK above is on to something.
The one thing that has been most troubling is how this all got started. If Wone was initially a willing participant – the whole thing begins to make more sense. Otherwise we have to believe that ard was diabolical enough to drug and rape someone. I don’t think he is THAT twisted.
The 3 men will never be tried for murder unless there is a big evidentiary break in this case. We can’t even agree on what happened – do you think a jury could?
Perhaps once the discovery phase is completed, the state will release any further evidence they have. Not all evidence would be available at this point. The prosecution will build their case and THEN release their evidence to the defense team. We’ll probably hear more as the trial date approaches.
How would it make more sense if Wone was a willing participant? I think it would make *less* sense. Unless you think a straight man can turn gay just by visiting a gay man in his gay house.
Are you somehow trying to imagine that this wasn’t a rape? That Wone must have asked for it in some way? And that would make Ward less less ‘diabolical’ ?
Clearly, someone (or two, or three, or four) in that house *was* diabolical enough to rape and murder that man, because that is what happened.
I think TK above is on to something.
The one thing that has been most troubling is how this all got started. If Wone was initially a willing participant – the whole thing begins to make more sense. Otherwise we have to believe that ard was diabolical enough to drug and rape someone. I don’t think he is THAT twisted.
The 3 men will never be tried for murder unless there is a big evidentiary break in this case. We can’t even agree on what happened – do you think a jury could?
Here is the source of the reference to blood being found on the kitchen door leading downstairs to Sarah Morgan’s apartment, linked through this blog’s Legal Documents section.
Affidavit in Support of Applications for Search Warrant, dated August 7, 2006:
“Through the use of chemicals and artificial light, trace blood evidence was located in several areas of the house, to include the inside door going to the basement apartment from the kitchen area of the house.” [Emphasis added.]
Possibly someone walked by and left blood on the door, or possibly someone left blood on the door as they went downstairs. To hide evidence?
I’d donate money to have a plumber use a camera snake to see if the knife is down the patio drain.
Here is the source of the reference to blood being found on the kitchen door leading downstairs to Sarah Morgan’s apartment, linked through this blog’s Legal Documents section.
Affidavit in Support of Applications for Search Warrant, dated August 7, 2006:
“Through the use of chemicals and artificial light, trace blood evidence was located in several areas of the house, to include the inside door going to the basement apartment from the kitchen area of the house.” [Emphasis added.]
Possibly someone walked by and left blood on the door, or possibly someone left blood on the door as they went downstairs. To hide evidence?
To “SheKnowsSomething”:
Let your friend Sarah know, that if she DOES know something, that being an Accessory After the Fact, is punishible by law of up to 1/2 the punishment of the principal offender. So, if the trio ends up in jail, and it can be proved that she knew something after the fact and didn’t willfully provide this information….she’s in a heap o’ trouble.
USCode § 3. Accessory after the fact
Whoever, knowing that an offense against the United States has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact.
Except as otherwise expressly provided by any Act of Congress, an accessory after the fact shall be imprisoned not more than one-half the maximum term of imprisonment or (notwithstanding section 3571) fined not more than one-half the maximum fine prescribed for the punishment of the principal, or both; or if the principal is punishable by life imprisonment or death, the accessory shall be imprisoned not more than 15 years.
But why have Sarah live with them in such a small space? Did he need the rent money for drugs? They could have turned the basement into a “play” space.
Perhaps they did.
I don’t believe it was coincidence that Sarah Morgan was out that night.
I was wondering yesterday if there will be any subpeonas for any cell/email ommunications between Sarah Morgan and the trio prior to or after the murder. Could show premeditation on the trio’s part if she was requested to steer clear for a boy’s night.
Someone asked previously who she stayed with that night. Seems that should also be looked into. If she contacted other friends with a request to crash for the night.
She stayed with 2 other men, their names were in the affidavit. Joe and Tom maybe?
I’m wondering if they found blood in the basement apartment itself. Tile is pretty easy to clean up, and don’t basement units often have a drain? I guess the grout could stain, dunno.
Don’t you remember that line from ‘Ordinary People’? Conrad saying his mother was furious that he slashed his wrists in the bathroom, and said ‘do you know how hard it is to get blood out of grout?’
Burned in my mind – first R movie I saw and was in 7th grade. The story line also included a reference to having to re-grout after his suicide attempt.
I’ve never thought it was a coincidence. According to the affidavit, Victor was supposed to be out of town too, but had returned early from a business trip. Not sure how credible any of their statments are but if true, there weren’t supposed to be witnesses. If Wone had never stayed before, perhaps they went ahead with the plan anyway, not wanting to miss their “chance”. I think the whole thing was premeditated and that Joe probably issued a standing invitation. When Robert had 2 other reasons to be in town fairly late, he took him up on it.
Remember that Sarah was with them at a Cosi as soon as the next morning. Anyone have more to shed on her relationship with the 3?
And that was WAY early. 6am, I think? Victor left to go home because he was tired.
Had the trio been cast out of their house at that point for crime scene investigation?
Price’s porno pictures at work: Because he was online during work hours trying to hook up with new playmates after hours.
Robert’s own semen in his anus: After he came, Robert’s semen was used by the perp as lube in order to penetrate Robert.
The missing knife: It’s the bond that assures each of them that everybody will always remain silent. It has the finger prints of all three of them on it, as each one of them made a stab (perhaps at least one person made his a while after Robert was dead). The knife still exists and is being held in safekeeping somewhere. Perhaps by Sarah.
Posters: Have you put your reward posters around Robert’s former neighborhood and place of employment? Some of his close friends, colleagues and neighbors might have an insight or two.
wow, darling. i would love to get you drunk to see what other leads you have. fascinating stuff; and a twist i did not think of. is sarah your typical overweight, bubbly, fag hag; never serious with a steady man?
You nailed it!! And, of course, she thinks she’s a sharper wit and more talented than everyone she meets. And she will always invite herself out on dates with her gay pal and his current object of affection.
The greeting at the door: By Joe and Dylan, “Robert, great to see you! Wow, you really do look exhausted, working so late. Glad you came over to crash here. But let’s get you relaxed first before I show you around our new home and we catch up on things. You know, Dylan just got back from Thailand and gives these wonderful extra-relaxing massages….”
Dylan’s extra-relaxing massage: While Dylan kneaded particular locations on Robert’s back, Joe secretly and quickly injected small amounts of a substance into Robert (the same way your dentist rubs your gums while shooting them with Novocain). Multiple little pricks were indeed involved. After the fourth or fifth time, Robert responded and saw what was being done to him, and that he was being sexually caressed. While now very droggy, he was still able to look in Joe’s eyes and mutter something, such as “Why Joe?” (Alternatively, Joe was not in the room and a little acupuncture was offered by Dylan. “Something I picked up in Bangkok”).
The decision: It was decided that Robert’s life must end. Otherwise Joe’s career would be over from Robert’s subsequent charges, which Joe knew his fellow lawyer friend would certainly file. The last injections were of a lethal amount, aided with a pillow over Robert’s head. A little more sex play. They calculated that, when authorities eventually find the decomposed body at some remote location, the cause of death should be clearly seen as a violent stabbing. A robbery gone bad. If the cause of death were vague, questions would inevitably come back to their home.
Moving quickly: Assuming they had about five hours to complete their task under the cover of night, they had to move quickly. Victor – who was still up and around and now suspicious that Joe and Dylan’s initial plans had gone way wrong – was told of the only choice they all now had. The three sealed their pack while Robert was still alive (but unconscious) in the bathtub (or on a large bulky plastic tarp that was later disposed) where he had been carried.
The bed: While no stabbing took place on the bed, a massage (with oil perhaps?) and sexual activity did. It needed to be remade and the old linens removed from the house.
The scream: It was Sarah’s. She heard the commotion, and came up to see what was going on. After being given a big dose of guilt for potentially destroying all of their lives, it was Sarah who was then tasked with disposing all the evidence. (Alternatively, if records show that any calls were made out of the house – other than to 911 – from 10:30 to 11:30, Joe’s brother could also have been involved in the disposal of evidence).
Key things to look at: So incredible many things needed to have taken place within less than 90 minutes. There was no time wasted with greetings or showing off the new home upon Robert’s arrival. There was no time wasted in verbal sexual seductions or even a shower before Robert went to bed (can his wife confirm whether or not he routinely showered before bedtime?). There was no time to be wasted in the clean up and disposal of evidence; three people were required with a fourth to dispose a whole lot of towels, tarps, toys, drugs and other stuff. One or two of their big suit cases or luggage bags are most likely no longer in the house. If they didn’t have an anal-retentive cleanliness freak of a lawyer running the show with the help of three other people, they never could have pulled it off.
The next accident: Sarah. Perhaps another robbery gone bad. Although Joe has given her plenty of money to get out of town, out of country and out of sight since she has not yet been charged.
Lines of Inquiry:
• At what time were Joe and Victor known to usually go to bed on a weekday? Were either of them known to perhaps stay up each night to watch The Daily Show, for example?
• Did Robert routinely take a shower before going to bed?
• Was Robert known to enjoy massages?
• What kind of massages did Dylan normally provide? Did he use oils? Was he trained in acupuncture?
• Was any massage oil residue found on Robert’s body? Particularly on his neck and back?
• Can any past tricks provide information on what size of plastic tarps Dylan used for waters sports and whether he was known to have many of them? How many – if any – such tarps were found in Dylan’s room during the investigation?
• Was the next door neighbor who heard the screams specific whether they were the screams of a man or a woman?
• Does Sarah have an alibi for the evening of August 3rd?
• Where is Sarah now? Does she hold a US passport? Has their been any peak in activity in her bank accounts?
Dylan’s ala mater: Thai Massage School of Chiang Mai
http://www.tmcschool.com
Previous studies: Before the murder Dylan studied at Thai Bodywork in Evanston, IL and at the Potomac Massage Training Institute, at 5028 Wisconsin Ave NW, Suite LL in Washington, DC.
http://www.thaimassageschool.net/index.php
http://www.pmti.org
Good Lord, what an amazing piece of fiction. You should write mystery novels, Mr. Grisham. To consider a few points here:
Which would mean that Price knew, from the moment he injected whatever it was into Wone, that killing Wone would be the necessary conclusion. Which would mean that Price thought to himself, “I’d really like to have sex with Wone, enough that it’s worth killing him for.” That’s a pretty incredible psychological state you’re ascribing to Price: full-blown first-degree murder, planned ahead without any good plan to cover it up, with no motive other than sex. No wonder the DA didn’t file charges for murder; he would have been laughed out of court.
Sorry, what was the original plan?
“Incredible”, indeed, in its very literal sense of “not credible; unable to be believed”.
Yeah, I’m still not really clear on where all of these things magically disappeared to. Or, for that matter, why exactly it was that they proceeded to stage a murder scene badly instead of disposing of the body as long as they were disposing of all the other stuff—you’ve got a tarp and a lot of towels; why not wrap up the body and drive it off? Just because Sarah screamed? She clearly didn’t scream loudly enough for anyone else to call 911, and even if they feared she did, they didn’t have to say much more than “Oh, yeah, she caught us having sex on the kitchen table. No crime here, sorry about that, move along.”
Honestly, Grisham’s story here is so utterly absurd that it makes the intruder theory look like something caught on videotape.
Joe and Dylan’s original plans (made no doubt while under the influence of drugs) were to dope Robert in order to have sex with him – sex that Robert would not remember having – and certainly not to kill him. They didn’t expect that Robert would awaken, recognize them and speak to them.
It was Dylan’s biggest S&M-with-an-Asian fantasy. And sub Joe would help deliver it.
Evidently, they felt Sarah screamed loud enough for someone to call 911. The drugs certainly heightened their paranoia.
In retrospect, while off drugs, the perps do indeed perhaps curse themselves for not remaining more cool and using the “sex on the kitchen table” line when the paramedics arrived. But they didn’t.
There’s still so much here that’s just plain nonsense.
That’s still a ludicrously high risk for anyone to take. “My premeditated plan is to rape this person after drugging him, and gee I hope he doesn’t wake up.” For Pete’s sake, there are much more effective and subtle ways to drug someone into sex than injecting them.
Even though they called 911? Even though everyone’s testimony, including Sarah’s, is that Sarah wasn’t home?
To be honest, I’ve seen Bush-was-behind-9/11 conspiracy theories that are more logical than this.
Dear Mr. Grisham,
I have read all your books, and I like some of your theories. But a friend on Swann told me
he saw the paramedics carrying the unfortunate man’s body out that night in a bag. And then everyone went away, even the police. Could something have been cleaned up afterwards. I am not sure how well the house was secured after hearing that.
Dear Ms. Claiborne,
The paramedics themselves testified that they saw “no blood whatsoever on the victim, on the floor, or anywhere in the room,” even though Robert had been stabbed three times, including once into the heart. Even the bed sheet on which Robert lay had just two “relatively small, well-defined spots of blood.”
Please give my regards to Stephen.
Fondly,
John
More precisely. They already had a dead body on their hands when Sarah screamed. At the very least, they knew they would be questioned the next day when Robert showed up missing (Robert’s wife knew where he intended to spend the night).
I believe at least one very paranoid member of the party was absolutely certain that the cops were about to arrive at their home any minute, following on Sarah’s screaming. Perhaps unwisely, he concluded that the “intruder murder” story would be more convincing than a “Robert never came by here” story.
Always remember that at the time, the two ring leaders – Dylan and Joe — had heightened paranoia and grandiosity due to their use of drugs. They were extremely paranoid following all that had unfolded in the previous 30 minutes: Sex play with a person they had secretly drugged, an accidental death, multiple stabbing to cover-upping that death, and then Sarah’s loud screams.
Likely, in the paranoid minds of the two drugged-up ring leaders, they felt as if the entire neighborhood had heard Sarah’s screams and the cops would be arriving any minute.
In retrospect, the perps now all likely recognize that they didn’t pick the best of all possible fabrications.
OK, this is clearly what you believe. But insofar as trials are based on evidence, let me ask: can you provide a single piece of evidence to suggest that (a) Ward and Price had taken drugs that night or (b) Ward and Price were suffering from paranoia? Evidence like that would distinguish fact from, well, paranoid raving.
Lance babe, I have not agreed with much you have said here. But you have point about the drugs. Also, why would neighbors necessarily call the police over one scream?
People scream all the time over this and that, the police would be pretty busy.
>>>Lance said: can you provide a single piece of evidence that (a) Ward and Price had taken drugs that night<<<
Lance, can you provide a single piece of evidence that they DIDN’T take drugs that night?
The paramedics were HIGHLY suspicious of everyone’s behavior that night. Including Zaborsky. There were said to have behaved in a way that was contrary to how anyone should behave in a situation like that. They were calm and unhelpful. All three of them. Ward actually went back into his bedroom. Would YOU have done that???
A paramedic actually distanced himself from Price by going to the opposite side of the bed because his behavior was so suspicious.
The paramedics will most likely be called to testify. They are trained professionals and their testimony will go along way.
In addition, various “pills” were found in the home, which gives rise to the fact that there were possibly drug-takers living there. AND, the conditions of their release were drug-testing. All indicative of possible drug use by the defendants.
Read the affidavits. Search warrants, etc. Please come up with something concrete to defend these individuals. Seriously. If you can come up with anything besides what the defendants said happened that night that shows that there was an intruder, bring it forth. Let’s discuss it. The fact that Joe said, or Dylan said, or Victor said, doesn’t cut it. A jury will want evidence.
Interesting that, according to the affidavit, Victor took a sleeping pill prior to going to bed. When I pop an Ambien (each night), I may stay awake and lucid for the news and maybe later to make a trip to the bathroom but that is about it. Any thoughts on how Victor stayed awake until the next morning? Adrenaline, low dose, or …. no dose?
I think it was Dylan that claimed to have taken a sleeping pill. He said he read for a few minutes (the infamous shakespeare article) and then went to sleep.
I thought it was VZ that went to bed early (before RW showed up.)
I’d have to say that if there was a dead man in MY house, I’d have a hard time falling back asleep. :/
Thanks CD – I need to re-read the aff. to refresh my memory.
What? Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. First of all,
That’s a really good point. Unfortunately for Mr. Grisham, it’s pretty much exactly the opposite of paranoid, panicking behavior.
But much more importantly:
Of course I can’t. First, because proving a negative is nearly impossible. Second, because the only evidence that we currently have to work from is the evidence presented by the police and the prosecution.
And even more to the point, despite the request that I…
…it’s so entirely not my obligation to do so, and not just because I’m not their lawyer, and not just because the three of them are still, in the eyes of the law, innocent until proven guilty. Rather, because it’s just not even possible to provide evidence against every damned crackpot theory someone proposes.
For instance, suppose I were to offer the following theory: a time-traveling alien popped into the room, killed Wone, and left. Could I then ask you to provide any evidence that there aren’t any time-traveling aliens? Of course not—if I’m going to provide a theory, I need to have evidence to back it up. Grisham is providing a theory that is, as far as I can tell, about as rational as the time-traveling alien theory, and one of its central aspects is that the three roommates were paranoid and irrational from drug use. That’s what requires evidence.
I believe I speculated that they were feeling “paranoia and grandiosity,” the consequence of which was some poor decision-making. “Panicking behavior” is your phrase, and I would disagree with you that they were “panicking.” The drugs that at two of them were on also enabled them to focus on the clean-up task at hand in intense, methodical and detached way.
Hypothetically, what kind of charges would one face if discovered by authorities to be a criminal with a false alibi? For example, like stating to authorities that someone were at their house – from say 10:30 pm to midnight – when actually they never witnessed her being there at that time.
Just wondering.
Typo alert!! Sorry! We were nervously typing too fast. Our previous post should have read:
Hypothetically, what kind of charges would one face if discovered by authorities to be PROVIDING a criminal with a false alibi? For example, like stating to authorities that someone were at their house – from say 10:30 pm to midnight – when actually they never witnessed her being there at that time.
Just wondering.
you girls need some truth syrum — someone knows more than they are saying. was that full figured tenant on the property when it all went down? was she getting ice cream from the freezer and heard something/saw something that she should not have? oh, sarah, darling; what say you?
SDI…..you make SO me laugh. Put some truth SYRUP on Sarah’s sundae….maybe we’ll get some answers. Oh, the illiteration.
“A bunch of small little pricks” did this? Well, obviously.
I’ve spent the better part of the weekend getting more up to speed by reading old posts, and I have to say, I think a large part of what Grisham theorizes is spot on. Particularly, the no-time-to-waste-with-small talk. I’m wondering if the initial meet and greet, followed by standing around in the kitchen and drinking water wasn’t the beginning of the plans to subdue Wone. Perhaps Joe’s “seeing a spider outside” not only provided a reason for the door to be unlocked, but also a distraction that would’ve allowed another perp (DW?) to slip something into RW’s water.
Thanks DCTim,
Naturally, there’s a lot of group think now going on here at this site that doesn’t get into the nitty gritty obvious details.
John
I think that saying they all went to bed around 11 is just self-serving nonsense. Same with the spider. While I disagree with some of your theory, it’s certainly rings true in many respects – and though I have my own theory, I disagree with John that anything here is “group think”. It’s puzzle pieces that don’t all fit but, after time, we seem to find (or think we find) the pieces with all the sharp edges to make the “exterior” and lots of “blues” and “greens” that we put in piles in hopes to have a complete picture as time passes.
Once you question Sarah’s claim that she wasn’t at home, and the housemake’s statement that it was Victor who screamed (after all, why should we take these claims at face value when everything else they stated in the affidavit was pretty much a lie?), a few other things begin to make more sense:
o Why Victor wasn’t hysterically screaming one minute, apparently “shocked” at what he had just stumbled upon, only then to rapidly regain his composure, be coached by Joe to tell an intricate story, and then dispatched upstairs with Joe confident that Victor wouldn’t blow his lines!
o How four people could clean up the scene more quickly than three.
o How the equivalent of at least two suitcases full of evidence (bloody towels, clothes, play sheets, a knife, drugs, sex toys, digital and video cameras, etc.) could be removed from the scene before the police arrived.
o Why all four of them had breakfast together early the next morning.
o Why Sarah lawyered up right away.
The greeting at the door: By Joe and Dylan, “Robert, great to see you! Wow, you really do look exhausted, working so late. Glad you came over to crash here. But let’s get you relaxed first before I show you around our new home and we catch up on things. You know, Dylan just got back from Thailand and gives these wonderful extra-relaxing massages….”
Dylan’s extra-relaxing massage: While Dylan kneaded particular locations on Robert’s back, Joe secretly and quickly injected small amounts of a substance into Robert (the same way your dentist rubs your gums while shooting them with Novocain). Multiple little pricks were indeed involved. After the fourth or fifth time, Robert responded and saw what was being done to him, and that he was being sexually caressed. While now very droggy, he was still able to look in Joe’s eyes and mutter something, such as “Why Joe?” (Alternatively, Joe was not in the room and a little acupuncture was offered by Dylan. “Something I picked up in Bangkok”).
The decision: It was decided that Robert’s life must end. Otherwise Joe’s career would be over from Robert’s subsequent charges, which Joe knew his fellow lawyer friend would certainly file. The last injections were of a lethal amount, aided with a pillow over Robert’s head. A little more sex play. They calculated that, when authorities eventually find the decomposed body at some remote location, the cause of death should be clearly seen as a violent stabbing. A robbery gone bad. If the cause of death were vague, questions would inevitably come back to their home.
Moving quickly: Assuming they had about five hours to complete their task under the cover of night, they had to move quickly. Victor – who was still up and around and now suspicious that Joe and Dylan’s initial plans had gone way wrong – was told of the only choice they all now had. The three sealed their pack while Robert was still alive (but unconscious) in the bathtub (or on a large bulky plastic tarp that was later disposed) where he had been carried.
The bed: While no stabbing took place on the bed, a massage (with oil perhaps?) and sexual activity did. It needed to be remade and the old linens removed from the house.
The scream: It was Sarah’s. She heard the commotion, and came up to see what was going on. After being given a big dose of guilt for potentially destroying all of their lives, it was Sarah who was then tasked with disposing all the evidence. (Alternatively, if records show that any calls were made out of the house – other than to 911 – from 10:30 to 11:30, Joe’s brother could also have been involved in the disposal of evidence).
Key things to look at: So incredible many things needed to have taken place within less than 90 minutes. There was no time wasted with greetings or showing off the new home upon Robert’s arrival. There was no time wasted in verbal sexual seductions or even a shower before Robert went to bed (can his wife confirm whether or not he routinely showered before bedtime?). There was no time to be wasted in the clean up and disposal of evidence; three people were required with a fourth to dispose a whole lot of towels, tarps, toys, drugs and other stuff. One or two of their big suit cases or luggage bags are most likely no longer in the house. If they didn’t have an anal-retentive cleanliness freak of a lawyer running the show with the help of three other people, they never could have pulled it off.
The next accident: Sarah. Perhaps another robbery gone bad. Although Joe has given her plenty of money to get out of town, out of country and out of sight since she has not yet been charged.
It was Victor who screamed … it is stated in numerous court documents …
That’s only what Joe, Dylan and Victor claim. I don’t believe it.
Sarah’s one loud scream? Or Zaborsky’s continual screaming? Two seemingly contradictory statements in the affidavit:
“(Witness 3, the next door neighbor) heard a single scream come from the area of the guest room of 1509 Swann Street.” (page 7)
“Zaborsky indicated that when he and Price discovered the body, he (Zaborsky) was screaming…” (page 8)
Zaborsky saying he was screaming as opposed to he screamed one time could be considered an “hysterical utterance.”
An excited utterance is one “made under stress of excitement caused by an external event, and not the product of studied reflection and possible fabrication.”
Excuse me….an “excited utterance” not an “hysterical” utterance.
Okay….strike that. I’m going to correct my own train of thought…..no “excited utterance.” It was noted by the emergency personnel on the scene that the trio was unusually calm. So calm as to make one of the technicians stay on the other side of the bed from Price to create a physical barrier in case Price because agressive.
But the contradictory statements CAN be used to impeach Zaborsky’s testimony during the trial as to his state of mind at the scene of the crime.
The suitcase: Joe was likely careful enough not to call someone – such as his brother – to pick up all of the evidence that they quickly needed to remove from the house. Record of that call would eventually document that either he was indeed awake at the time of the murder, or that he was negligent in waiting to call 911 following the stabbing after first making other calls. Joe was also careful enough not to hide any of the evidence in the trunk of one of his two cars.
Fortunately, from the household’s perspective, they had a better option. They instructed Sarah to take the suitcase(s) full of cleaning materials and fluids, rubber gloves, the bloody tarp(s), bloody cloths and towels, sex toys that were used, drugs, among other things out the back door, down the alley, down the street and get a taxi to take her up Connecticut Ave. and on to a particular location. If she had her own car, it is possible she might have driven that, or perhaps even a car of one of the household members. At that location, she was to call Michael (Joe’s brother) from a pay phone, and have him come over and meet her and pick up the suitcase(s).
It is highly unlikely that a member of the household went out to a payphone to call Michael to come over to pick up the evidence himself. There would not have been enough time between the scream and the 911 call for Sarah to calm down, a new plan to be devised and agreed upon, someone to run to the nearest pay phone, and for Michael to drive down from Silver Spring.
Tom and John’s: Joe has already testified that Sarah spent that evening at Tom and John’s. It would be interesting to learn if that’s where Sarah also claimed to have spent the evening. And what Tom and John have to say under oath. It is unlikely Sarah was ever at Tom and John’s that evening. More likely, Sarah spent the evening at Louis Hinton’s apartment in Silver Spring; where Michael was supposedly staying that evening. Or at Michael’s place. Wherever she spent the evening, Sarah and Michael likely didn’t get any sleep.
>>>JG says: get a taxi to take her up Connecticut Ave. and on to a particular location<<<<
What are you basing all your conjecture on? Let’s not be fanciful….John Grisham is a fiction writer…..don’t do that here.
Where, if ever, has Connecticut Avenue ever been mentioned?
Its the quickest way to Silver Spring.
Personally, I’d take 16th Street. :>
But anyway….
You’re right. Perhaps a bit slower to 11700 Old Columbia Pike. But probably more likely given Sarah most likely caught a cab on 16th St.
Likely contents of the suitcase(s):
• Drugs, particularly ketamine, and a whole lot of other stuff
• Syringes
• Assorted sex toys, including anal toys
• A selection of graphic, violent Asian related BDSM gay porn
• The video camera they had been filming with
• Three pairs of rubber gloves
• At least one larg plastic tarp (covered in blood)
• Possibily containers filled with blood
• Cleaning materials and fluids
• A large number of bloody cloths and towels
• Bed sheets and pillow case
• Perhaps even a pillow
• The clothing Dylan, Joe and Victor had been wearing that evening
• And of course, a knife
Items not seized through the search warrants: While computer equipment and even a Kodak disposable camera were seized from their home through the search warrants, it’s surprising that the detectives seem not to come across any digital cameras or video cameras. This is additionally unusual as “culuket” was known to be interested in “participating in erotic photograph.”
The trio had a month to dispose of things.
Investigators initially noted the “expensive electronics equipment and other valuables throughout the house.”
Did the four of them have any unsupervised access to the house following the murder? I seem to recall Michael needing to break in to 1509 Swann a few months later in order to likely remove some overlooked evidence.
Accessing credit card charges and product warranty information under their names at Best Buy, Circuit City, Embassy Camera, The Leather Rack, etc. might reveal other missing possessions hauled out of the house by Sarah:
• Digital cameras
• Tripod
• Photographic lighting equipment
• Additional laptops
• Web cams
• Play sheets or rubber tarps
Now this is getting interesting Mr. Grisham…
The flatfoots usually miss the most compelling and important evidence. Abundant needle marks. No significant signs of resistance. Absent cameras and recorders. And Dylan’s playsheets are also nowhere to be found.
MaNonVa did confirm that Sarah (or Sara without the h) was more than just an ordinary tenant to the trouple. Based upon what other posters have stated, however, her loyalties seemed to lie more with Victor than with the bad boys of the house. Could she then have been the one to take at least some of the “missing” stuff to Silver Spring or McLean or whereever, or was it fellow bad boys Michael, Louis, and/or Phelps to the “rescue” of Joe and Dylan?
Wait. You refer to Sarah as “she.” Does that mean she’s actually a “he”?
Oh, Brian. Stop being silly.
It’s old and sophomoric by now.