Where K & Swann Intersect – and the Role Ketamine May Have Played
ketamine powder
The strange circumstances of Robert Wone’s murder – no defensive wounds, signs of possible suffocation, evidence of possible sexual assault and multiple mysterious puncture wounds on his neck, chest, foot and hand – have led many to wonder whether Robert was chemically incapacitated – drugged with a “date rape” agent. D.C. Medical Examiner Lois Goslinoski was first in this line when she wrote:
“…the medical evidence firmly establishes Mr. Wone was alive, but incapacitated, at the time the stab wounds were inflicted. Indeed, even if he were merely restrained — as opposed to entirely incapacitated/immobilized – he wold likely have indications of defensive wounds…”
As discussed earlier, the list of possible paralytic agents is very long. Many readers have suggested a cross section of possible candidates. But a closer looks suggests one begins to rise to the top of the list: ketamine. Curiously, while the “standard toxicology tests” run on Mr. Wone included PCP, GHB, cocaine, meth and other club drug standards (all were negative), ketamine was not tested for.
Could K explain part of the mystery of that night?
- No defensive wounds. “K” dosing is complicated.Too little and the desired effects wash out; too much and you drop into the k-hole of near or complete loss of motor functions. Playing that line is complicated, and dosing is fairly linear – the more you take the more you trip. Can you take (or be given) enough ketamine to render you effectively helpless? Absolutely.
- Puncture wounds. While generally taken as a powder (dried from its original liquid state for use as an animal tranquilizer) ketamine can be injected, and when done so it is magnitudes more potent. Effects of intra-muscular injections are rapid; apparently intravenous injections are too dangerous as the person may pass outentirely before the injection is complete. Multiple injections are recommended by ketamine enthusiasts for maximum effect. We would need to know more specifics about the puncture wounds, but it isn’t unreasonable that several of those – hand, foot and neck – could have been IV injection sites.
- Effects. Called a “dissociative anesthetic”, K has the medical bonus of disconnecting a person’s mind from his body (hence its use during the Vietnam war as a battlefield painkiller and its now official use as an animal sedative) without slowing basic functions. Respiration and the circulatory system are largely unaffected, save for an occasional rise in heart-rate. This could explain Dr. Goslinoski’s observation that the victim continued to live for a time after the three stab wounds. A person could appear completely immobile (or even dead) while their core vital functions continued, despite being stabbed or suffocated.
- Missed testing. Despite its popularity (or at least as portrayed in some media reports) ketamine apparently is not routinely tested for in medical examinations. Although its effects are short-lived, ketamine can be detected in blood, hair and urine for two to four days after ingestion. However, unless a coroner has a specific reason to go looking for it, ketamine may often evade testing and detection.
By nearly every measure, ketamine presents itself as a prime suspect in the puzzle of what happened to Robert Wone. Dosed up by an assailant, ketamine injected into several sites could render a victim immobile to sexual and physical assault while maintaining basic life processes, potentially wipe a victim’s memory of the experience, and- in the event of death – would likely escape detection by police.
Sadly, this is likely to remain mere – if informed – speculation, as we may never know what if any role K had Robert Wone’s murder.
-posted by Doug
It does beg the question: why would Wone passively allow himself to be injected multiple times? I can imagine that the ‘assailant’ might be able to inject the sleeping victim once before he awoke, but not the several times indicated against his will. And the autopsy seemed to indicate no evidence that Wone was physically restrained before the injections (no mention of bruising on wrists and ankles); though apparently there was quite a lot of restraint equipment in Ward’s room. I’d say it was possible that someone slipped rohypnol into Wone’s drink, but they were supposedly just having water. Does it have any flavor?
A couple of other points from the affidavit:
1. Wone’s bed was neatly folded down at 45 degrees; this description was very specific and seems to strongly imply that Wone never actually got into bed. If not, where was he? And he slept in a t-shirt, underwear and shorts over that? A bit odd; apparently he was dressed again after the alleged sexual assault.
2. I was surprised to read that this was the first time Wone has stayed over at their house. With Zaborsky retiring early, I can’t help feeling that there was more than a ‘sleepover’ planned, but things went horribly wrong.
Wow. Do we know for certain that dc police or the med examiner didn’t test wone for it? or the 3 room mates
According the affidavit in support of Dylan Ward’s arrest testing for ketamine was not performed on Robert or any of the Defendants.
These are pretty broad speculations. A friend who lives on a street near Swann told me that he often saw the trio going out to dinner, but always with a large group of friends. Significantly, these friends
were not a gaggle of trendy pretty boys or club boys, but people who looked like they were from work. So the idea that drugs were a central presence in their lives is contradicted by the rather everyday, and quite ho-hum, habits of their socializing. So where does that leave us. Ockham’s Razor should tell us that we are more likely talking about the tragic results of severe mental illness. And Ward seems the most likely candidate
for that. People can live with very severe delusions
about others for a very long time. I suspect that outside of their normal socializing in large groups, suddenly the delusional reality had a chance to express itself. It is a more logical explanation than all the titillating gambits about drugs and sex. But in the end it was all about the law career. For even if the others had nothing to do with it, it would have tarnished them terribly. That would have been enough for the original impulse for the cover-up. The reality of lawyering is not, as “Lance” said it would require murderousness in his reductio ad absurdam against my view. But it does require protecting the firm at all costs, and one’s career as paramount. The are rational calculations, but dastardly ones in this case given all the pain and suffering these three have caused.
Probably two are not guilty of the initial crime, but of being rational in a bad way. The other one is clearly barely rational. What rational gay man, given our current cultural climate, could write a children’s book of all things, entitled incredibly “Naughty Jack”.
One would expect that if any of the 3 defendants used Ketamine on a regular or periodic basic, that there would be a dealer or other third party “out there” who knows about this.
Do we have any evidence (other than the speculation that Joe’s “culuket” screen name may include a reference to “ket”amine) that Joe, Victor or Dylan used or dealt Ketamine?
Also is Ketamine a drug used by vets?
If so, I think at least two of the defendants were friendly with an individual who could have gotten ket through his job.
You’re not even aware of the circular reasoning here, are you? “It would take a severely irrational person to have committed the crime; Ward is clearly irrational, since he did this thing; therefore, Ward is the only one who could have done it.” Is there any evidence at all, any evidence whatsoever, that Ward is this deeply irrational? Any evidence from his public behavior; any evidence from, well, anywhere?
And let me stress that:
…this isn’t evidence; it’s barely coherent and nearly slanderous. What rational gay man could write a children’s book titled “Where the Wild Things Are”; or a book called “In the Night Kitchen” in which cooks try to eat a naked young boy? Well, Maurice Sendak, apparently.
Ward wrote a series of English readers. That’s it. See my comment over here for more discussion of how ludicrous it is to try to read anything more into the fact that he wrote children’s books, or into the titles.
I don’t agree. But let me just say in response that you forgot the best one Hansel and Gretl.
Post Scriptum:
I have been thinking that part of the reason this case has inspired so much speculation is than it provides a grid for different aspects of the gay community. Of course this is keenly unfortunate. When these guys are convicted it will hurt the gay cause. Let’s just hope it will be small. Let us just hope that people of good will shall see that these three creeps are exceptions, just three selfish guys. Sadly, some will see them as representative of gay activism. I share Barney Frank’s apparently long held view that many of the gay activist groups have been places for a lot of self-serving people. Pushing their own pet agendas, even some which one might agree with, while ignoring the wider more pressing issues. I think that all the emphasis on drugs
and sex has to do with an unwillingness to see
a more basic issue. Gay people are no more or less virtuous than anyone else. The fact that they are pushing the gay cause does not make them any less able to be a creep than anyone else. There are two issues here. In my experience gay guys often like to think that others are on drugs. And they especially like to believe, mostly falsely, that others are having hotter sex than they are. It is all on the level of small town gossip bullshit. It is pathetic. But it is related to the more central issue. Gay guys like to be hyper-vigilant about being judged. There are good reasons for this of course, because we are judged. But that should not keep us from the more basic moral analysis when it is called for. And certainly three guys covering up a murder is the place for such analysis. I was amazed how many people I encountered in the neighborhood who were defending Price and company after the incident. “Poor Joe…” is something I heard a lot around here. It was ridiculous because given the acoustical nature of row house living there was no chance that their story was true. But so great is the disposition to put a halo around gay activism that it blinded people. Similarly, my friend who lives near Swann told me that he actually saw what he believed
to be the Grand Jury going into 1509 Swann about a month after the event. That means that a group of smart local people went into
that house which had hardly any walls, and somehow didn’t indict them right away for their ridiculous story. Shame on them for their misplaced political correctness. As usual
such ministrations are applied exactly where we do not need it. The poor widow of this innocent man has suffered terribly by all this.
There is no doubt that the gay community will suffer in some way when these wretched human beings are finally put where they belong.
LES,
I agree that there is an almost paranoid instinct of the gay community (much like other minority communities) to circle the wagons around the brethren. However, I’m a gay man, and I lived in Dupont for many years, and if any of these men are guilty, they deserve no protection. Murder is murder. IMHO, just trusting from the testimony of the freakish encounters by the EMTs who had 10 and 15 YEARS experience, these three men have something to hide. The truth must out.
I really do find it incredible that someone could write
and assume that the reason had to be “political correctness” as opposed to “the lack of enough evidence for an indictment”.
The intruder theory sometimes reads like a conspiracy theory (“see, and then someone came into the house when no one was looking and…”). But the theory that the defendants are guilty also reads like a conspiracy theory (“and so these otherwise intelligent men proceeded to perform the world’s least convincing coverup, and the police and the grand jury fail to see through the coverup, and….”).
Exactly, they attempted a coverup. The arrogant lawyer among them thought he could beat the ‘stupid’ DC cops. Come on, who denies that he might have thought this.
And the evidence (sexual assault, washing, positioning of the body) implies a random intruder cover up? Explain.
No. it’s a lot simpler than you are making it.
There is no way to be in a row house, let alone a row house with few walls, and not hear someone being stabbed. Period. End of discussion.
Not true. I don’t know about other rowhouses, but it is very difficult to hear anything through the walls of the houses on Swann, except perhaps at odd hours when its super quiet outside.
And if you have the television on, as the neighbor did – forget it.
You’ve missed the point entirely. It is not about neighbors hearing. It is about
the claim of the defendants that they did not hear the stabbing happening. That is impossible in a rowhouse, let alone one of the stupid trendy ones with no walls and little privacy. Your obtuseness brought me out of retirement.
You state that “When these guys are convicted it will hurt the gay cause.” And what, prey tell in your infinite wisdom, since you apparently know more than the first grand jury that didn’t indict them, will happen to the gay cause when they are acquitted?
AMEN to the question posed by “Ridiculous.”
It is silly to connect the behavior in this crime to “the gay cause.” First, I find the suggested connection offensive. Second, the only tangible damage has already occurred, which is a loss of Price’s pro bono services to a gay rights org in NoVA. Third, you cannot demonstrate how the only notable activist role by any of these three (Price’s pro bono work) has injured legislation or perceptions in NoVA, and therefore you surely cannot — with any depth or real insight — make a case for damage in DC, or the region.
If you’re suggesting that someone may say, to themselves or over the water cooler, “I don’t know about that gay marriage bill before the DC Council, because I read about these three guys…” Well, that kind of person would never support gay marriage or equality anyway.
Impact = zero.
I don’t agree, and think you all a bit naive.
Rather than arguing though, may I say the following for what will probably be my final words on this site. That if there
were ever a more weirdly appropriate malapropism than “prey tell” I can’t imagine it. Perfect for this case.
LES – I hope you decide to stick around. You bring a lot to the table here.
Craig, editor
Yeah like making claims and then not backing them up; priceless contributions, that.
SSO – Your belligerence is growing especially tedious, even by online standards. I just ran through your complete list of comments and found that your high water mark may have been the trashing the kitchen appliances of 1509. Twice.
You’re no Clarence Darrow yourself and anytime you want to start generating more light than heat is fine by me.
In truth, though, LES really is making claims without backing them up–see my first comment in this subthread, in which I criticized his circular logic in calling Ward “barely rational” and his wild leap in logic in talking about Ward’s children’s books, neither of which LES backed up.
“anytime you want to start generating more light than heat is fine by me.”
Right back at ya, regarding this blog and it’s “purpose.”
Cop out.
If a guilty verdict is passed, tell us how it will “hurt the gay cause.” Tell us which members of city council will back away from supporting same-sex marriage, because of the verdict? Tell us which wards in this city will experience shifts in voting patterns. Tell us which referendum might be injured, and how? Or, if you are suggesting damage at the national level, tell us how this local murder story will move members of Congress (that ought to be a rich one).
Naive? I’m ready to discuss any of the above, or other aspects of this, based on over 20 years of work on voting patterns, legislation, focus groups, and more.
Impact = zero. Tell us the specifics that argue otherwise.
LES – I, too, welcome your comments on this blog. And the influence/impact/reputation to certain segments of the gay community are spot on with many offline discussions we have had, particularly with regards to the narrow coverage this case has received in the mainstream media. While I may not agree with all of your conclusions, your thoughful commentary is welcomed.
– Michael, editor
Narrow coverage by the mainstream media? Please, it’s received the right amount of healthy coverage, and without it, you guys wouldn’t have enough light, i.e. repurposed info, from which to spin out the heat, i.e. tabloid chatter.
Heresay anecdotes from someone who saw them going to dinner in the neighborhood does not negate likelihood of drug use.
Ward being a ne’er do well does not negate mental illness prospects of the more “successful” Price and Zaborsky.
You are making assumptions based upon profession, employment, and accompanying trappings.
Any one of these three, and/or all three, could have been using drugs, and could have played a leading role in Wone’s demise, and arguably all three could share responsibility for Wone’s death, given their considerable lag time in calling 9-1-1, while Wone was still alive, “digesting his own blood” as the affidavit reports.
Any one of the three could have been mentally unstable, and/or triggered in their actions by anxieties related to anything from relationship dynamics to, as you also mention, fear over impact upon their futures.
The things that I continue to find strange about this is that Wone wasn’t tested for ketamine. Even if it’s not a standard drug to test for, I just don’t buy the police explanation that “no tests were run as there was no early indication–in light of the statements that Price, Zaborsky, and Ward gave to the police–that Mr. Wone may have been injected with any such drugs” (affidavit against Ward, p. 7). Once a medical examiner has found (a) puncture marks and (b) evidence that the victim was immobilized, why wouldn’t they test for an injectable drug that would immobilize someone?
Additionally: we have quite the laundry list of items found in the apartment, given in the affidavit. If ketamine was used, especially if it was injected, shouldn’t we expect to find other traces of the drug, empty vials, and so on?
Lance,
Maybe because the defendants misled authorities (thus the obstruction of justice charge)…
P.S. — I am wondering if you will ever find a fact/detail/thought interesting that suggests that one or more of the defendants are guilty.
P.P.S. — In the interest of full disclosure, to the extent that you are one of the defendants or are otherwise closely aligned with them, please disclose this fact. This goes for all on this post who have a vested interest in the defendants’ guilt or non-guilt. Otherwise, we may construe your comments as that of an interested, albeit nonvested third party.
IKWDI: I’m not sure which logic class you missed in college, but it’s absurd to suggest that, unless Lance states that he has an interest on behalf of the defendants, which he obviously may not, then “we may construe your comments as that of an interested, albeit nonvested third party.”
Who seated you as judge of commenters?
Ouch!
Wasn’t suggesting that, sorry if most post suggested so. My concern here is that the stated purpose of the post is to discover what happened on that fateful night. Obviously we all bring to this blog our own biases (which we may be aware of or not)… after all, we are in many ways a product of our own individual past and present.
My real point was that to the extent that you have biases that go beyond this — because you are associated with either the victim or one or more of the defendants and have ulterior motives beyond the stated purpose of the blog — it would be helpful for the reader to know this.
should have read “the stated purpose of the blog”
IKWDI,
I believe I stated before, but just for the record again: I have never met anyone involved in this case–the defendants, the victim, the widow, the lawyers, or anyone else.
I’ll state, too, that there’s a lot about the defendants’ version of things that I find troubling–or, properly speaking, the police’s report of the defendants’ version. What I think you’re missing is that I’m not insisting that the defendants are innocent; I’m insisting that we’re just plain not in a position to know.
But as for the actual content of your response, i.e. “Because the defendants misled authorities”: that’s a point I very specifically state that I find unconvincing. as a reason for not running tests for drugs like ketamine. For starters, suppose that the defendants’ account is as incoherent and impossible as we’ve been led to believe, and that they really were far too calm to be likely to be innocent. In that case, why would the police say “Oh, well, they said there were no drugs; don’t bother to test for them”? The police honestly take their cues from people they think might have reason to mislead them?
But above and beyond that, go read what I wrote in the first place: regardless of what you’ve been told, when you find injection marks in a victim who you believe has been immobilized, why would you not check for drugs like ketamine?
Lance = Needham Ward, MD
“She did it” = Satan.
Seriously, folks. I present a reasonable argument, and therefore I’m the father of one of the defendants? I’d like to once again ask the moderators to take action to keep the level of discourse here civil and rational.
I urge anyone who has not actually read the “Affidavit in Support of an Arrest Warrant – Dylan Ward” which is in the legal documents area of the site to please do so; it contains a lot of information not in the media releases, including statements by the three which contradict observations by the EMTs and police (e.g., the alleged noisy A/C compressor above Ward’s room); and the way Price clearly wanted to control what information was given to the police; and the clear contradictions between claims by Price that Ward would not hurt a fly, and Ward’s extensive collection of pain-inducing BSDM equipment… and Price’s own photo evidence.). Also, that at least one of them admitted that the gate to the 7′ tall fence around the back of the house was locked, adding one more factor to the unlikeliness of this being an attack by some random (or even non-random) intruder.
Look at the facts objectively. Remember the three classic factors: means, opportunity, motive. According to these circumstances, only the three other men in the house really had the means and the opportunity (the locked gate, and forensics showing the knife was not the one at the scene, but most likely one from Ward’s room, now missing; and why would some intruder have the motive when Wone’s valuable personal effects were undisturbed, and his was not even the closest room to the stairs (Ward’s was)? The biggest question remains motive. Why would any of them be desperate enough to commit murder? Or here is another possibility: Wone was stabbed as part of a cover story, when they thought he was already dead, overdosed with the injected drugs but he was not in fact yet dead. (This would be an even greater tragedy if this were the case). Speculation: Ward (maybe with Price) think they have overdosed Wone and killed him, they panic and decide on this intruder/stabbing story (since no intruder is going to inject someone they find in the house with several shots of ketamine).
What doesn’t make sense is the autopsy showing that Wone lived (horribly) for a long time after the stabbing, and would have been bleeding. Yet the scene showed little blood. Perhaps after the stabbing, the perpetrator(s) realized that they had made a terrible mistake. But yet they did not call 911 right away. Instead an extensive cleaning (surely no one can argue the fact of that) took place.
Lance: re the drugs: It’s possible they disposed of all the illegal drugs/used paraphenilia while washing the bloody clothes/towels, but Ward did not get rid of his perfectly legal bondage stuff; who knows what stuff with Wone’s DNA might have been ditched along with the murder knife.
Finally, what did the famous, brilliant if fictional sleuth Sherlock Holmes say? “Eliminate all other factors and the one which remains must be the truth.”
Let us use the forensic, investigative, and statement information we already have, and make some logical deductions.
(at the risk of sounding Dataloungey) Discuss.
First I’ll note again what I said above in a response to IKWDI: there’s a lot in the defendants’ version of things that I find troubling, perhaps even suspicious. I recognize that there’s not a lot that makes sense there. (It’s just that I recognize that there’s not a lot that makes sense in the police version, either.)
Regarding, though the particular comment that
I considered this, and I do wonder about it. Would it have been possible? Presumably dropping these things in the trash can wouldn’t suffice, when the house is investigated as a crime scene? If that’s the case, where would they have been disposed of so thoroughly? (It seems to me that one would have to dispose of the bloody towels, too; washing something that soaked in blood wouldn’t get rid of the stain, would it?)
I believe in the affidavit it was implied that materials that could have soaked up that much blood were missing, and even rinsing/laundering could not have removed the blood residue. So either the bed was remade, or Wone was not even murdered in that bed (which I suspect).
They stabbed him in the shower = no spatter in the room. Carried him back to his bed.
Not sure that makes total sense, though.
Any one of them could easily have disposed of small items by nipping out the back gate and throwing down the drain in the alley. It is quite large.
TK, I read your blog entries a while back and found them well-written. As for Lance, forget about trying to persuade him with the facts as we know it. I suspect Lance is either one of the suspects or a friend/relative of theirs. Lance= “La La La- I don’t hear what you’re saying and I’m not gonna take my fingers outta my ears!!” I am going to ignore Lance. Not worth my time.
I am actually fairly positive that Lance is not one of the Defendants nor one of their friends or relatives. But apparently anyone who thinks differently than the others on this blog who want to convict based on one police affidavit and on story books that Dylan wrote must have some kind of vested relationship with the Defendants. I will say that I am a friend of all of the Defendants and I am horrified by what I have read on this site. These are three good people yet you are assuming that everything that the police said is true and that they will be able to back it up in court. You are also completely ignoring very large holes in the affidavit. I for one have a good friend who was sleeping on another friend’s couch and a strange guy walked in through a door that they had forgotten to lock and pointed a gun at him. A block down the street from me an intruder walked into a house and killed a man and didn’t steal anything. He also injured a small boy. Despite the fact that the only other people in the house besides the man were small children, the police have said that “it must be an inside job.” Maybe the rest of you don’t live in DC and assume that the police here always do a good job and that it is unheard of for someone to walk into someone’s house and do something completely crazy, but I live here and can say for a fact that it happens. As wild as it sounds, it happens. I would also like to remind everyone about Jon Bennet Ramsey who was kidnapped and murdered by a stranger and for 12 years the police continually accused the parents and the public was on board because these people were so strange for putting their daughter in a beauty pagent. 12 years later the prosecutors finally write a letter of apology to the parents (sadly one of whom had already passed away) because there was evidence that they had not tested previously that showed a stranger had in fact come into the house. All I’m saying is that you all have made your decision based on very tenous and incomplete evidence at best. Stop behaving like children toward the one person who actually points out very rationally problems with the evidence and the frankly quite inane theories that many of you come up with.
Shoddy police work or no, the intruder theory simply sounds ludicrous given some of the basic facts. No defensive wounds = victim had to have been incapacitated (one way or another, since there were no marks other than possible injections, it seems likely via injection or ingestion). Do you know of any intruder cases where the murderer cleaned the body without the other occupants’ knowledge? Dressed him after the fact? Somehow introduced his own semen into his rectum? Tried to fake the actual knife used for the murder? These things simply don’t add up if it were an intruder.
I am sure it is troubling to think of one’s friends as murderers, but look at any number of famous murder cases (from Ted Bundy to Scott Petersen) and most of their friends and family were in denial. Whatever happened that night, it seems obvious that at least one of the three (and I suspect all three) know more than what they told police, and at the very least took part in a coverup (which is what they were indicted for).
I hope your creepy friends understand that they are very possibly being watched 24/7. That you defend these guys shows you are one desperate queen. Girl, get over your self. They have made it hard for us well-behaved ho’s to have any fun. They are so guilty, there is no way for them not to be. The time is here for them to get their asses into to pohleece and confess.
Ridicuolous,
It is precisely the reason they thought an intruder story would work – because it s D.C.
Please don’t insult people’s intelligence.
Anon, thanks; it’s obvious I have been very interested in this from the beginning and I am grateful to the guys who started this site because Robert Wone and his family deserve justice (though of course tragically nothing can bring this young man back), and the real perpetrator(s) need to be brought to justice. As for Lance, he makes a valid point here and there, and we Hardy Boys and Nancy Drews (I always thought she was a better sleuth when I read her stories as a boy, go figure) need to be kept on our toes.
how does one go from summa cum laude hoya grad to partying, playing and pooping at the crew club? k is one way. mental illness could be another. once again, i beg for ward apologists to educate the rest of us about this queen, her strengths and weaknesses, likes and dislikes?
and now a clue for the civil team. while we know the defendants won’t talk, there is a swann street neighbor interior designer out there who met the girls at cosi the morning after their police questioning. there is no 5th amendment privilege for this hottie, and she was privvy to all of post-questioning conversation. slap her with a deposition subpoena and let’s get that transcript posted on this blog post haste. more later, all; but she has relevant info.
SDI — wow!! good get!!
I am on my way over to Swann street right now with a mock version of the plaid drapes from the home tour photos… (and yes, I know they came from the photo tour from the prior owners). My thought being that if I run up and down Swann street with the plaid drapes asking for emergency designer help… surely he will not be able to stay away… have you seen those drapes??
Then SDI, you can throw the net over him and we can get him all Scooby Doo style…
One question I have had is whether Joe’s condo which was just a couple blocks away was rented at the time of the murder. If not, perhaps they went and stashed items there for the time being then disposed of the later when they had the opportunity.
lol!!!!! bring that subpoena with your drapes. we’ll crack this case yet, jessica fletcher style.
Deal!!
But only if I get to ride the bike with the little wicker basket upfront!!
I can bring hot muffins too…
If you actually do know such a person, you should provide name and contact info to DCMPD. And to assist you, the hosts of this blog should provide your ISP# to the DCMPD.
Or, you’re just dishing to get attention. Which is it, so people can get to work?
No one is providing anyone with any ISP #s based solely on anonymous comments. If anyone has the goods or a solid lead they are encouraged to reach out to the authorities. We’re all ears too and welcome offline conversations via our contact email address.
Craig, editor
i know of the person; i do not know the person. let me get the name and i will post it.
SDI – Or pass that name to us via the contact email if you’d like. We’ll turn it around quickly.
Craig, editor
Do not offer up a name publicly, and do not make a blog editor your first go-to with a name. Rely upon the DCMPD instead of a blog editor who has, as of this morning, promised anonymity to anyone who asks for it.
Brett Parson of the DCMPD would be the most professional, useful and insightful recipient of a name that may be useful.
SwannStObserver = Brett Parson
Brett Parsons is a lot cleverer than that. That is why if you ever have to deal with the so-called Gay Unit of MPD make sure you deal with him. The other people in that unit are dumb as a box of rocks and can barely put a sentence together. That is no exaggeration. That shows you that it is not taken seriously. Parsons gets the dregs. Though as I said he is very bright.
These three guys had ready access to a drug supply via Michael Price, Joe Price’s brother. Sarah Morgan commented to me and several friends that Michael was a user and a dealer. Sarah also made an odd comment about she suspicions that Joe was a danger to himself because of his behavior with various other men. The police should squeeze her for more information. Everyone maintains that Sarah was not home on the night of the murder, and that may very well be true. But she lived with this group of three on Capitol Hill and moved to Swann Street with them. She has seen a lot and I’m sure she knows more than she is telling.
Why don’t you and anyone else with information like this contact the authorities? It would be a terrible shame if people with knowledge clammed up or assumed whatever they heard was not important. Only talking about it on the internet is not going to help.
Glenn Kirschner, US Atty’s Office, 202-514-7566
Metro Police Dept., (202) 727-4218
Ben Razi, Covington & Burling attorney, 202.662.6000
Thank you for helping to solve this terrible murder of Robert Wone.
So, anyone who has any info, please call the US Attorney’s Office at 202-514-7566. Glenn Kirschner is the AUSA assigned to this case.
Metro PD’s Office, 202-727-4218
Ben Razi, Covington & Burling attorney, 202.662.6000
It’s not enough just to discuss what you know on the internet. What a shame it would be if people with helpful information never let it be known to the authorities. The horrible murder of Robert Wone must be solved!
TK wrote:
—-It does beg the question: why would Wone passively allow himself to be injected multiple times? —–
don’t forget the medical examiner noted broken blood vessels in robert wone’s eyes. This indicates suffication. He may have been subdued in this manner prior to being injected. Also, ketamine injected intramuscularly reacts quickly. One injection may have subdued him.
Lance said:
— (It seems to me that one would have to dispose of the bloody towels, too; washing something that soaked in blood wouldn’t get rid of the stain, would it?)—
The towels themselves, who knows where or if they were disposed of, but the investigators’ K-9’s DID find blood in the drain located in the back patio area. They could have cleaned any bloody clothes, towels, etc outside.
Indeed, one injection of K can kill you. A friend’s sister died this way – injected too much, she was dead before she hit the floor.
As a lifelong human rights activist, I share Frank
Kameny’s experience that there is no shortage of
self-serving in the civil rights community. When
one combines aforementioned with a cmty desire
that there be no negative reflection on one of its
own, you have a recipe for disaster throughout.
Like any other entity, law enforcement has limited
time, energy and resources and must be jurdicious
in its expenditure of same. There is no reason for
coroner to test for all Rx under any circumstances.
Perhaps, he felt that ketamine was not indicated?
Given no evidence of drug history on the part of
Wone in the first place and much evidence of his
incapacitation in the second place: it is more than
likely, Wone was rendered helpless by preliminary
drug dosing prior to injection of some paralytic.
With all this talk of drugs, sex and rock and roll,
something I neglected to talk about is the legal
concept of “diminished capacity.”
If person found to be possessed of mental disease,
defect or impairment — that may be grounds for
reduction in charges or diminution of penalty.
This is because under law within same category of
offense, crimes which are committed where intent
is present are penalized more heavily than crimes
which are committed where intent is not present.
For example: there is difference between person
who intends to employ a motor vehicle as weapon
for purpose of taking life of another; a person who
intends to employ a motor vehcile for the purpose
of transport and accidentally takes life of another
& person who “drives under the influence” (DUI).
It is not inconceivable to me that:
1) Ward could be found to suffer from chronic
mental illness on account of disease or defect;
2) Price could be found to found to suffer from
temporary insanity on acct of drug intoxication;
3) Zaborsky could be found to suffer from
temporary insanity on acct of situational stress.
If so, with other factors this could mean that:
1) 1st degree murder becomes 2nd degree murder;
2) murder becomes 1st degree manslaughter;
3) 1st degree manslaughter becomes 2nd degree;
4) manslaughter becomes negligent homicide.
Similarly, diminshed capacity could negate mental
state which is necessary to knowingly participate
in: 1) conspiracy; 2) aide & abet before the fact or
3) aid & abet after the fact; and whatever else.
This may prove to be a saving grace for defendants
& their defenders, but a source of cold comfort for
the Wone family and friends & others concerned.
N.B. For the purpose of proving adverse influence
of drugs or alcohol, it is not necessary that the
individual tested positive for substances.
I don’t know who claimed conviction would hurt the “Gay Cause,” but it was not me.
What I attempted to point out is there are those who might think that it would hurt the Gay Cause.
This is a not uncommon perception among various minority groups.
I.e. Asians were hoping it was not Cho, Korean who killed number of students at Virginia Tech.
Robert, Esq wrote:
—It is not inconceivable to me that:
1) Ward could be found to suffer from chronic
mental illness on account of disease or defect;
2) Price could be found to found to suffer from
temporary insanity on acct of drug intoxication;
3) Zaborsky could be found to suffer from
temporary insanity on acct of situational stress.—
and 4) Casey Anthony could be found to suffer from post-partum depression on acct of having a child.
Oh come on. Not even Jeffrey Dahmer got away with his INSANITY plea.
I can’t believe that has even come up on this discusson board.
Dylan Ward, is nothing more than a small man, with a small mind that works in a vile, corrupt way.
Or a sex and drug addict
Yeah, well that, too. But that’s enough to cop a plea. Squeal on his co-conspirators. THAT might get him somewhere.
CD,
This is really seriously just plain slanderous. Honestly, if you want to talk about evidence, we can talk about evidence, but making broad claims about Dylan Ward without, I assume, ever having met him makes you look like a small man with a small mind.
oops……..that’s NOT enough to cop a plea.
I wonder who Lance is?
He is definitely not objective. Others are not objective in the other direction but that is most likely due to the strong circumstancial evidence ag. one or more of the three men.
I wonder what Lance’s story is?
Lance says he wants to talk about evidence, but then he discounts anything and everything that tends to show guilt on the part of Ward, Zaborsky, and Price.
I don’t think you’re really reading what I’m saying. I scanned through my comments in this thread, and I didn’t “discount” any evidence anywhere. I objected to LES’s baldfaced and unsupported assertions about Ward’s mental state; I discounted things that aren’t evidence, like Ward’s children’s books; I wondered about the lack of testing for ketamine, discounting what strikes me as a dubious reason for the police not testing for it….
Beyond that, what I’m doing is denying the claim that the (one-sided) evidence we’ve seen is 100% of what’s going on. I don’t think I’ve “discounted” anything per se.
So sorry….he’s a fine upstanding gentleman that happens to be defendant in an obstruction of justice case. I’ll ignore the other distasteful FACTS so as not to ruffle the feathers of the holier than though.
Hold on–you called Ward “a small man, with a small mind that works in a vile, corrupt way” with no apparent justification other than the fact that he’s been accused of a crime. I called you on it. And you’re getting pissy about that?
If you think there’s a fact here–if you think that your characterization of Ward is somehow a fact–then please, by all means, provide the evidence for it. But while I’ve been accused of “discounting” evidence, I have yet to see any evidence of this, just a lot of speculation by people who have never met him.
Lance, we all have a RIGHT to our opinions. I said Ward is “a small man, with a small mind that works in a vile, corrupt way.” THAT is my opinion, and I’m completely within my right to hold that opinion. You may not agree with me, and that is YOUR right. But for heaven sakes, everytime someone expresses a personal opinion about one of the defendants, you feel the need to step up and call the person out about it. Let it go, Lance. If you don’t like it, move on to the next comment.
Here lately, we spend more time commenting on people’s style of writing than on the Robert Wone case.
Sheesh.
I have no problem with one disagreeing with me about the possibility of an insanity plea on part of Ward or anyone else in this case or any other.
However, except where precedents are applicable, determinations in one case by given judge in given jurisdiction — including same judge in different case or another judge in same jurisdiction — are unrelated to determinations made in another jurisdiction.
Thus, determination that Dahmer was not insane 1) has no bearing on this case; 2) is not binding on this court; 3) should n0t influence judge in this case or any other — regardless how you or I may feel or think about such plea in this matter.
Legal Beagle
I am personally acquainted with Brett Parsons and
agree with your assessment of him as being highly
competent police officer deserving great praise.
I have also had dealings with other low ranking
and high ranking officers of the MPD in general
a/w/a Gay and Lesbian Liaison Unit in particular.
You & I may disagree (& I believe that reasonable
people may disagree), but it is not my impression
that GLLU staff are any less competent than their
counterparts assigned other MPD responsibilities.
When you saw your murderer’s eyes — surprised and horrored — before being robbed away from everything you’ve been experiencing on this earth (as you were being drugged or ultimately stabbed). Did you ever imagine so many people would lie to protect the person who killed you? On such a website?
As a former death penalty defense attorney who has worked many homicides, there is a lot that I could say. Instead, I will ask a reasonable question for which I do not have the answer, have tests been done on reserved blood and/or tissue samples for special K? Is it impossible to test for after a certain amount of time has elapsed? Does it only show up in certain organs? Because, as anyone familiar with autopsies in suspicious deaths knows, the coroner always preserves some tissue and blood samples. Okay, one comment. Whoever disposed of the actual murder weapon could have disposed of syringes as well.
Themis
Thank you for your comment. I come out of
similar background but have nowhere near as
much experience as appears to be case with you.
My understanding is that ketamine theory is just
that theory. Coroner speculated about intro of
paralytic in general not Special K in particular.
Above leads me to believe there was no testing for
ketamine on account of unavailability of necessary
blood evidence or fact that it was too late to do so.
According to recent post by veternarian relative of
blog site moderator, ketamine would appear to
have a relatively short half life for presence.
However, I confess to not being expert on subject
and would thus invite follow up comment by vet
a/w/a others more knowledgeable than myself.
Second question. Assuming a man were under the influence of a paralytic, would that affect his ability to ejaculate? If so, how? Would it depend upon the type of paralytic used and/or the amount present in the body? As a woman, I have no clue.
Good investigation IMHO generally starts off with questions, many of which lead nowhere, and ends in conclusions a good time later.
Allegations and surmises are should be treated as just that until thoroughly tested and examined. Even then, people may draw different inferences from the same set of circumstances.
I am suggesting neither guilt nor innocence because, at this juncture, I do not have all of the necessary facts to reach a reliable conclusion.
And, since disclosure seems to be the watchword of the site, I know none of the parties and live outside of the D.C. area.
Themis
Regarding gesticulations respecting ejaculatons:
apparently my earlier observations have been
seconded in press by medical experts.
One may ejaculate: 1) while still alive under the
influence of at least some paralytics; 2) in process
of dying by asphyxiation or other causes ; 3) after
death in variety of circumstances like crucifixion!
Respecting the Wone death, it is my understanding
that this blog was created for purpose of providing
safe space for those who may be concerned citizens
but outside observers to share their thoughts, ideas
opinions, impressions, hypotheses, perceptions,
speculations, deductions, determinations
examinations, machinations, etcetera.
Though I think properly understood, presumption
of innocence is obligation for judges and juries —
not necessarily everybody else — nevertheless I
uphold it in my own personal and public life.
Had any of us “necessary facts to reach a reliable
conclusion,” there probably would be no reason
for the existence of a blog such as this one.
Interesting to see that Arent Fox will be relocating to the intersection of K & Con., as a bold tribute to one of their partners and all that he stands for. (Unless they are soon about to get out in front of the train wreck and issue a statement confirming that Joe Price is no longer a partner at Arent Fox, and is no longer receiving financial support and benefits from them). What an ongoing and escalating PR nightmare this is going to turn out to be for Denise DeLorey, Steve Harras and the entire firm of Arent Fox, “the superstar at K & Con!”
http://www.arentfox.com/newsroom/index.cfm?fa=pressReleaseDisp&content_id=1592
“Arent Fox, the superstar,” now at K & Con!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdAKEh59kMU
Arent Fox lawyer covered the O.J. Simpson murders. We’ll soon see what AF learned from all of that!
The Hartford Courant
June 5, 2004, Saturday
Simpson chase was the ‘first reality show’ that changed TV news
By Liz Halloran
America had never seen anything quite like it _ a beloved celebrity in the thick of a grisly murder investigation was threatening suicide as he rode along a busy Los Angeles highway trailed by police cars and in-the-sky television cameras providing live coverage on June 17, 1994.
Greta Van Susteren, on holiday in Paris with her husband, skipped a stroll on the Champs-Elysees and instead remained glued to the television as the story unfolded.
Roger Cossack, at home in Los Angeles, was watching the Houston Rockets in a televised basketball playoff game when the network began running a small box showing the now-infamous low-speed chase.
Neither knew then that O.J. Simpson’s fateful drive in a white Bronco would not only launch their television careers but also set the stage for a new tradition of live news and courtroom coverage that has come to define the cable airwaves….
“It was the perfect story,” Cossack, ESPN’s legal analyst, said from his Washington law office at the firm Arent Fox. “It had race, wealth, celebrity.
“You have to remember: O.J.’s fall from grace was not from the second floor but from the penthouse.”
And America watched that fall in stunning numbers: The ratings for CNN, where lawyers Susteren and Cossack ended up working together as on-air legal experts, were like nothing the cable network had ever seen.
Viewers, for days, had been tuning in to the drama and had seen reports of the killings of Simpson’s ex-wife, Nicole, and her friend Ron Goldman in a tony Los Angeles suburb. They had seen coverage of Simpson returning from a business trip to Chicago, watched his crime scene visit and looked on as he was handcuffed by police and released after questioning…..
Cossack ….. calls what happened to television with the Simpson case the beginning of “newsetainment.”
“In my opinion, it changed the way news is presented on television,” he said. “I don’t want to sound hypocritical _ after all, I was part of the presentation.”
“But with the hindsight of 10 years, I think that there has been a trade-off from straight news reporting to newsetainment _ celebrities, pop culture, as opposed to spending more time on in-depth, serious news stories.”
Roger Cossack is still ESPN’s legal analyst based in Washington, DC, covering the sloppy lies and cover-ups of people like Alex Rodriguez and Michael Vick. Roger was counsel for Arent Fox until 2004.
Wonder if he would be available for comment on the unbelievable circumstances surrounding the homicide involving Joe Price, a partner at his former firm?
http://www.truveo.com/Cossack-On-OJ-Simpson-Trial/id/108086436499397613
Joe’s clients continue to be well-serviced:
“Price has been on administrative leave from Arent Fox since Oct. 31, 2008, the day the arrest warrant affidavit was made public,” said Arent Fox spokesman Steve Harras.
“All of Joe’s clients have been put on with other attorneys who are familiar with the cases. It’s not a one-man show,” Harras says. “There’s been no disruption in client services. The clients are being well serviced.”
Dear John,
Guess it is another case of Fox guarding the
henhouse. We will just have to wait and see if
they are prepared to pay the firm Price in order to
make the aRent. I don’t think that housemates on
Swann Sreet can count on well CONNECTicuttED
architects to freeD Joseph and Victor from being
Wards of their mental State. Given U Met-a-For
of “train wreck,” I think it worth noting that A&F
are capos for the Holocaust Museum in AC/DC.
Robert, you “crack” me up.
John
So much as finding killer of Robert is matter dear
to my heart, it helps me to maintain some sense of
humor. Even in human rights work, found that I
would be lost without it. Glad to see someBody
else has the good sense to appreciate great wit.
Hopefully someday those responsible for this
heinous crime will receive their just PUNishment.
Thanks.
Hi Robert,
Your postings on this site have been brilliantly insightful. Please keep up the great work in providing us all better insight into this case. Light moments are required, to be sure, but I believe most of the folks who regularly post on this site are driven by a rabid sense of social and humanitarian justice.
Respectfully,
John
Dear John,
Thank you for your the compliment; I am truly
humbled. I have spent my life as human rights
activist including GLBT before Stonewall where I
participated in following “Three Days of Rage.”
I am also very close to my family — immediate and
extended. Thanks to my loving friends, I also have
twelve godchildren: 3 Jews, 3 Roman Catholics, 3
Protestants, 2 Buddhists and 1 Hindu.
I have saying: “some people care about the family
personal but not family universal & some people
care about family universal but not family personal
— I care about both” (if for no other reason than I
see the intimate connection between the two).
Martin Luther King spoke about the arc of justice
being long & that it may be delayed but not denied.
My father was an MLK lawyer, my mother a union
organizer, my sister a desegregator and my brother
a Freedom Rider. I won’t go into details of my life
on this post at this time. Suffice to say I have been
around the human rights block more than most.
Dear John,
Do you think that for breakfast, the rushing Arent
Fox cossacks have OJ and Special K for a Price?
Dear John,
Cossack’s Vick vapor rub evaporates into thin air
not unlike the intruder theory on Swann Street!
John,
Given Arent Fox’s admitted reputation for Harras-
meant, it’s HARD to believe that Price’s clients are
going to be as well “serviced” as apparently was
case when Ward said: “tell ’em it IS so, Joe”!
I guess law firm leave policy is administratively
warranted when FIRM “member” is arrestingly
warranted when the Price for taking leave of
senses creates conflict-of-love-interest?
Have the bars just closed in the American Middle West?
At any rate, I am off to a safe, undisclosed location on the modern version of the Lusitania, and I hope that, when I return to the Old Dominion later this month, we are all that much closer to justice for Robert. Bon voyage!
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