Tricks or Treats?

“Dylan Ward” Re-emerges in Florida…and In Fiction

We’ve long suspected the Swann Street threesome ceased living together in part or toto even before this Spring’s trial began.  There’s been hard evidence and strong suggestions that each of the three may have gone their separate ways.  If that’s truly the case, we shall say only mazel bloods

Where exactly they are currently isn’t certain, but clearly the most far-traveling of the trio is Dylan Ward.  Months before the trial we saw him pop up in Florida several times…although not always under his full name.

Now, like the snowbirds returning to their familiar haunts, Dylan appears to be coming back to the career that has sustained him the longest: massage therapy.

But that’s not the only place “Dylan Ward” is appearing these days. There’s another Ward loose in another town.  And while Florida’s Dylan promises “complete wellness for your body, mind and spirit,”  his northern namesake is said to “break the rules, live dangerously…maybe too dangerously.”

Where you can find them both…after the jump.

First to Florida, and a handsome new ad placed with an online search service for one Dylan Ward.

“Massage is my calling,” he begins; “…my massages are tailored to you.”

At the reasonable rate of $90 for an hour ($150 for 1 1/2), Mr. Ward describes your experience:

“I am a gentle, intuitive, intense, caring man who promises to listen and give you an open heart, my complete attention, and exceptional manual skill.

“My massages are tailored to you. If you seek blissful relaxation, I offer you the sensual, smooth strokes of Swedish massage. If you desire a more profound experience, I offer you the slow, warming moves of Deep Tissue work. If certain points on your body cry out for focused attention, or if your muscles feel locked and shortened, I offer you the precise, therapeutic compressions and yogic stretches of Thai massage. You can have it all, or mix and match to create an experience suited to you.

“I work on a table or mat, depending on the type of work you prefer. I use my whole body: hands, forearms, elbows, knees, feet to apply pressure with varying degrees of precision and strength. For gliding strokes, I use unscented Biotone massage cream or lotion.”

We questioned – and still do – the legitimacy of this ad: could someone be setting him up, we wondered?  Would someone who tried so hard to cloak his identity be so forward?  Does the text marry with the same Dylan who produced the previous two ads?

A quick call to the number listed put us in contact directly with Dylan.  (We did not arrange for a massage.)

This doesn’t mean the ad is legit: someone could still be punking him…or us.  But if nothing else, the photo bears a striking resemblance to Washington’s own chef-turned-masseuse.

And there’s another Dylan Ward on the prowl of late – literally.

First published in 2007, the young-adult “Blue Blood” vampire series by Melissa de la Cruz now extends to six books – the most recent, “Misguided Angel” hitting the market only this week.

Vampires are everywhere lately, earning their creators huge payoffs.  For our part we’ve payed zero attention to any Vampire Diary, and couldn’t have cared less about choosing sides in the lame Team Edward/Jacob war (although, admittedly, several of us were big fang-boys of Team Godric.)

The “Blue Blood” series tracks a secret society of vampires (and their human allies) who sailed on the Mayflower and now lurk and pout about in New York as beautiful, wealthy and powerful socialites.

Apparently there is a war going on (of course) between two types of vampires – the “good” blue bloods and the “evil” silver bloods.  “Dylan Ward” is a shadowy figure of uncertain allegiance who is also known as Xathanael, a supposed dark angel known as “the Hidden One.”

An author himself, one wonders if Dylan appreciates the life and story arc of his fictional namesake.

Who is “Dylan Ward”?  An itinerant student, he’s described as:

“…a sad faced boy with long lashes, smoldering eyes, and a tarnished reputation, dark eyebrows, dark sideburns that curled around his ears, big sad eyes, cute, skinny.  Polite, not condescending towards the school’s staff and service workers.”

And? Someone who:

“…broke the rules and let anything happen.  He (lives) a bit dangerously, breaking the rules and acting spontaneously. Maybe too dangerously.”

Dylan…and Dylan: best luck in your adventures.

And to quote author de la Cruz:

“A word of advice: if and when you decide to start dating, make sure that your potential mate is A) NOT a Silver Blood and B) not the spawn of Lucifer.”

Happy Halloween.

posted by Doug

197 comments for “Tricks or Treats?

  1. denton
    10/27/2010 at 10:11 AM

    “I use my whole body: hands, forearms, elbows, knees, feet to apply pressure with varying degrees of precision and strength. For gliding strokes, I use unscented Biotone massage cream or lotion.”

    eeeerrrrr…I think I need a massage after a long night drinks last night!

    • Doug
      10/27/2010 at 2:02 PM

      denton: Same to you, and I’m keeping that a secret.

  2. AnnaZed
    10/27/2010 at 11:37 AM

    You know, I think it’s him. I mean to say that I don’t think that he’s being punked. I think that he’s just oblivious. I still wonder what Needham thinks about his son being a prostitute.

    • Craig
      10/27/2010 at 12:21 PM

      AZed: We did our best to qualify the language and redact certain bits of information in the post if someone is indeed getting punked, whether it’s Ward or us. The web page’s language clearly states that it’s an ad for legitimate massage therapy.

      • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
        10/27/2010 at 12:43 PM

        Craig, was there any language that was r- or x-rated? The listing appears rather vanilla, except for a couple of lines you can read between.

        • Doug
          10/27/2010 at 1:58 PM

          CD: No, there was no language anywhere in this ad that would have been considered eye-raising in the least, unlike one of the previous ads.
          And to underscore: I have a friend who is a massage therapist – when they’re legit they’re complete professionals. There’s no judgment about the profession from this end.
          Doug, co-ed

          • AnnaZed
            10/27/2010 at 2:05 PM

            Just to be clear, I am well aware that there are legitimate massage therapists; I’ve seen Friends for one thing.

            Seriously, I know that there are and have even availed myself of same, but I am certain that Dylan Ward in addition the offering the legitimate services for which he is trained also offers or at least offered sexual services because he said so in his other ad. I am sure that the easy money that providing such services assures would be a hard habit to break once established.

            I think that Ward’s receding hairline will be the only thing that could cause him to rethink this strategy for keeping himself in pin money.

            • Bruce
              10/27/2010 at 3:12 PM


              Where you say in your post:

              “or at least offered sexual services because he said so in his other ad.”

              I seem to recall that “other ad” also, but for the life of me after a half hour search, I can’t find that previous ad.

              Would you by chance be able to tell me easily where I can see it on the blog? If not, don’t worry.

              • Craig
                10/27/2010 at 3:25 PM

                Here are the previous posts on the subject.

                • Bruce
                  10/27/2010 at 4:16 PM

                  Many thanks, Craig!

          • Bruce
            10/27/2010 at 4:33 PM

            These new ads and the old ones I have been able to find (with the help of Craig) seem pretty similar to me.

            They all seem to use the word “sensual,” one way or the other,which you can take as you want, I guess. None that I have seen or been directed to specifically mention sex, but I’m sure the law would not allow that in an ad in any event. “Sensual” does not mean “sexual” in the context of sexual acts, at least to me.

            Based upon these ads, I don’t feel comfortable reading that he is a “prostitute.” He has studied massage and this doesn’t seem to be just a guy with no experience or training trying to cash in big on looks.

            Can someone point out to me a massage ad of Lil Dyl’s that does specifically refer to sex? Just haven’t seen it yet. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

            But in praise of all masseurs who are non-sexual in their profession, and even to those same that may use the word “sensual” in an ad, keep UP the good work!

            • carolina
              10/27/2010 at 6:30 PM

              You’re a sweet, innocent man, Bruce. Not familiar with the verbiage of escort/sex worker ads, but sweet, nonetheless.

              • Bruce
                10/27/2010 at 6:50 PM

                Well, I think this is good, this is ok, I think this is a step up from being an octopus…..

                …so, thank you, Carolina in da moan’in.

                • Susan
                  10/27/2010 at 7:01 PM

                  You’re funny, Bruce!

                  I think I agree with Caroline, esp. since he seems to do his advertising on men-only sites. I also think that he has to have a front for doing what he does. And perhaps he does have an interest in it. But I think if he were really serious about the biz, he’d not limit his market, esp. in these hard econ. times.

                  I also think Bill2 has a point about the camera, but I’d add that he prob. doesn’t want any more negatives or new pics floating out there.

                  Finally, I’d ask the eds, that, if they feel like sharing, to tell us what they said when LD answered the phone.

                  • Susan
                    10/27/2010 at 8:26 PM

                    Thanks, AZ.

                    Another thing about this site:


                    I’m sure there are qualified masseurs on that site, but I’ve had massage before and I don’t know anyone whose had massage with a man or woman where the masseur advertises with his/her shirt off. Also, I understand it’s an activity where clothes come off. Same with some dr’s visits. But I haven’t come across a directory of interns or gynecologists, etc. with half nude suggestion pictures of them.

                    There is clearly more to this site than massage. Straight (as in “no chaser”) massage places or practioners don’t really have the need to sell themselves by their looks/with a photo from what I’ve seen/experienced.

              • AnnaZed
                10/27/2010 at 7:40 PM

                Really now, I can’t tell if that is naïveté or deliberate application of the obtuse powder, in any case ~ charming in this day and age.

                • Susan
                  10/27/2010 at 8:01 PM

                  Hey AZ, are you replying to Bruce’s post or mine (or another)?

                  • AnnaZed
                    10/27/2010 at 8:10 PM

                    tried to respond to carolina

            • Susan
              10/27/2010 at 8:52 PM

              Here’s what I found when I looked up Thai massage in DC. This was the closest place I saw:


              You can check out Potomac Massage Training Inst. and just do a search in DC and not find anything as suggestive as the ones on that site.

              I also think that last ad was legit. as you have to pay to advertise. Unless someone paid up to $60 (basic package. Package as in what you get for what you pay. As in the advertising stuff) for a prank.

              • Clio
                10/27/2010 at 10:05 PM

                Well, at least, these days, Dyl’s using “unscented Biotone massage cream or lotion” rather than margarine or Crisco. And, he only does outcalls — no more studio anymore bought and paid for by Needham? Fascinating.

                • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
                  10/28/2010 at 10:07 AM

                  Lotion for those “gliding” strokes. Mmm hmmm.

    • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
      10/27/2010 at 12:41 PM

      I agree. If he were being punk’d, it’s by someone that knows him because his real telephone number is on the listing.

      Besides, how else is he going to make a living? Certainly not fundraising or writing. Certainly not a job that the parental gift of education would land him. Get up at 6am like the rest of us? Why do that when you can rely on your boyish good looks to bring in the rent.

      • Clio
        10/27/2010 at 11:01 PM

        “Boyish,” only to his pensioner clients, perhaps??!!

        • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
          10/28/2010 at 10:07 AM


      • Also From the Post Story
        10/28/2010 at 9:57 AM

        > how else is he going to make a living?
        > Certainly not fundraising or writing.

        Writing, hmmm… I wonder what money there would be in a “tell all” book on their life together and that awful murder (by a nasty intruder) that ruined it all?

        • AnnaZed
          10/28/2010 at 10:05 AM

          Paging Judith Regan.

    • SJinNYC
      11/19/2010 at 5:20 PM

      Not to necessarily stick up for Dylan, as I do believe he played a large if not the primary role in Robert’s murder, but where in the world are you getting that he’s a prostitute? We know he legitimately studied massage in Thailand, and in the above ad i see no subtle language indicating he is offering anything more that massage. So I’m slightly confused. Do you think all massage therapists are prostitutes, or do you know something we don’t? Again, I hate to stick up for Dylan in any way, but I gotta say all this ‘prostitute’ stuff is really just crazy speculation. He looks like a legit massage therapist to me.

      • carolina
        11/19/2010 at 5:29 PM

        Legit massage therapists don’t offer “erotic” massages and their ads rarely come with half naked photographs.

  3. Rapt in MD
    10/27/2010 at 12:50 PM

    Agree – I also think it’s him in a legit ad. I think he’s getting on with life and needing to make some bucks.

    • Rich
      10/27/2010 at 11:02 PM

      The ad is way tamer than most of the others on the site.

      Other ads include nude photos and detailed graphic descriptions of what they will do to a client.

      Dyl’s ad is straight up and listed under, “Therapuetic,” NOT Sensual or Erotic!!!

      If the boys was selling sex, which he has experience with, he would have a way diiferent ad on this site.

      I think he is legit.

      • Bill 2
        10/28/2010 at 10:22 AM

        My belief that he’s “legit” matches my belief that he is “leaving Joe behind.” Based on what has gone before, both scenarios are fairytales.

        • denton
          10/28/2010 at 12:19 PM

          Am I seeing two different opinions here?

          One interprets the ad.

          The other criticizes the one who interprets the ad.

          I am not sure, and am confused?

          • Bill 2
            10/28/2010 at 6:36 PM

            Perhaps you haven’t notice that we often have people who express differing opinions on a wide variety of subjects, denton.

            Your interpretation claiming “The other critizes” is strange in view of the fact that it’s merely one more opinion regarding the ad, denton. Can’t you deal with more than one viewpoint?

            Lighten up, denton, and stop trying to cause friction with your pretense of being “confused.”

            • AnnaZed
              10/28/2010 at 6:56 PM

              Curious web persona isn’t it, as tedious to maintain as it is to parse I would imagine.

              • Bruce
                10/28/2010 at 7:54 PM

                Words to live by, little “d.”

                Unqualified praise as criticism is, of course, the highest form of flattery.

                • Clio
                  10/28/2010 at 9:17 PM

                  Bruce dearest, I have always found your critiques, however in the marital tone, to be most generous in their credit given. Make my day, Brucina! XO, Clio.

      • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
        10/28/2010 at 7:18 PM

        I think if Dylan’s services are completely above board, he wouldn’t be posting his ad amongst the ads that are there for sexual services.

        It’s sort of like looking for love at You don’t.

      • Cara
        10/28/2010 at 8:27 PM

        I’m sure that he is trying to make a living. The ad may not be a punk.

        But legit? A legit massage therapist would not advertise on a site where “sensual” and “erotic” are choices. Nor would the legit therapist’s ad include *any* reference that could be construed as sexually suggestive. That would drive their “legit” client base far, far away. Massage therapy is a legitimate form of physical and stress therapy. Although this defendant is credentialed, a legit therapeutic practice or practitioner would disavow his ad.

        It’s not for me to begrudge anyone’s livelihood. But let’s be realistic about what this is.

  4. Laura
    10/27/2010 at 2:35 PM

    …I don’t think the ad is there any longer…

    • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
      10/27/2010 at 10:19 PM

      Still there Laura. Just checked. In fact, it says dyl will be in Orlando Nov. 05 – 07.

      He’s traveling around.

      • Clio
        10/27/2010 at 10:27 PM

        Dyl’s going to Disneyland!! I wonder if he’ll be staying at Orlando’s Parliament House — catching a show or two.

        • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
          10/28/2010 at 10:06 AM

          I wonder if he’s going to the 2010 Equality Florida Gala. That takes place Nov. 6th.

          But then again, he could just have his city wrong. The “Mr Int’l Rubber” and “Rubber Blowout” takes place in Chicago that weekend. Dilly, did you get your ticket wrong?

  5. Bea
    10/27/2010 at 3:40 PM

    So very strange to me that he used the same picture already ‘found’ and posted on this site with the prior massage/+ online ads. If the ‘hair salad’ do downplayed the receding hairline then, can it not be recreated in a different photo in possibly a different shirt and pose? It’s far more attractive than, say, ‘green boy with hose’ or his mug shot, but odd that he can’t get it together enough to find a new pic or (doG forbid) TAKE a NEW pic.

    • Bill 2
      10/27/2010 at 3:49 PM

      New picture? Have you forgotten that someone departed with the camera on the night of August 2, 2006? Since then, there seems to be a shyness about having cameras around.

      • Bea
        10/27/2010 at 5:48 PM

        Bill2, such a good point – these guys don’t have access to any digital cameras whatsoever, being so ‘old school’ as to have only disposable film cameras (and just the one taken by police . . .)!

        • Bill 2
          10/27/2010 at 6:16 PM

          And regarding the ‘hair salad,’ it looks like there was an attempt at a Tintin style followed by an unfortunate collision with his grandmother’s egg-beater.

          • Bea
            10/27/2010 at 7:48 PM

            But it does draw the eye away from the receding hairline. Maybe it’s the combination of ‘good’ hair (albeit a salad) and the tan which prompted Dylan to keep using the picture. I still don’t know what kind of shirt that is – waffle between it being a scuba shirt or a ladies’ wide strapped tank. Perhaps his friends should take up a collection for a glamour shot session if he can’t be trusted with a camera. . .

            • Clio
              10/27/2010 at 10:11 PM

              Bea, I still prefer contemplative, sexy Dyl in the unbuttoned gauzy white blouse from Italy (Milan, perhaps?) in 2005. That pic had a sophistication and masculine elegance that the other daguerrotypes obviously do not display. But, that photo is 5 years out of date!!

              Where is our contemporary Matthew Brady to take just the right shot of Mr. Ward for marketing and historical purposes?

            • AnnaZed
              10/27/2010 at 10:50 PM

              The cyclist in me thinks that is a men’s triathlon jersey.

              • Bea
                10/27/2010 at 11:06 PM

                Clio and AnnaZ, agree that since he’s not concerned that the photo is out of date, why not use the Italy shot? Maybe as AZ says, he’s trying to ‘go athletic’ with the triathalon jersey. Really too bad they lost all those digital cameras – wonder if all the media cards were also lost that evening, and how it is that Dylan kept these two? Maybe these were good for other kinds of personal ads as well (or was it only Joe who trolled for thirds?).

      • Ivan
        10/29/2010 at 10:05 AM

        Bill2-I had forgotten about that. Was the camera never found?

        • Bill 2
          10/29/2010 at 12:54 PM

          No digital photo equipment was found by police – still or video. Could it have gone “poof!” into thin air along with bloody towels, a bloody playmat, and a certain knife? Could digital camera equipment have grown legs and tiptoed across the street into a neighbor’s home?

          The lack of digital camera equipment in that household is a mystery.

  6. Rich
    10/27/2010 at 5:21 PM

    David Schertler…

    Picks up the defense for the two kids (18 year olds) who were arrested last weekend at Georgetown Unoversity for alledgedly having a, “Drug lab,” of sorts in their dorm room.

    The boys were in custody for the past five days until this afternoon’s arraignment.

    The judge released them to their father’s in Massachusetts (Boston suburb)until thier January court date. They are on survelliance.

    Shertler stays busy…

    • carolina
      10/27/2010 at 6:28 PM

      What do we think would have happened if they’d been a couple of African American kids in Baltimore?

      Ahh, privilege.

      • Susan
        10/27/2010 at 6:56 PM

        I don’t think Schertler would have picked up the case.

        • Rich
          10/27/2010 at 7:54 PM

          The Boyz were not on financial aid and the Georgetown Daddy’s were quite accomplished professionals in Boston.

          A call was made to Washington, DC for defense counsel and Schertler’s name came up as the go to guy.

        • carolina
          10/27/2010 at 9:40 PM

          I doubt they’d have been released in the custody of their parents, either.

          • Rich
            10/27/2010 at 9:51 PM


            Go to for details.

            The parents were in town today and the boys went to court in Orange Jump Suits.

            They were returned to DC Jail at 2pm and went back to Boston this evening.

            They will wear electronic bracelets until their court date in January.

            They sacraficed thier passports and are not permitted to travel.

            • Clio
              10/27/2010 at 10:35 PM

              For our Georgetown girls, there will be no chance now for Semester at Sea or for the American University in Rome — they really blew it this time!

              Dyl’s passport probably has not expired. Getting lost in the Wild West that entrepreneurial Beijing has become might be an option for the crafty masseuse. Just sayin’!

            • denton
              10/28/2010 at 12:12 AM

              Also in local WTOP radio with a handsome smile pics of D.Schertler.


              • Clio
                10/28/2010 at 9:26 PM

                Schertler as W Top: very likely!

  7. Rich
    10/27/2010 at 8:47 PM

    There is nothing wrong with a Gay Massage therapist exclusively focusing on a Gay Practice/Client Base. Maybe, it’s comfort level. Maybe Dyl feels awkward with the female body. No surprise there. It’s not his orientation.
    As for selling his services shirtless, it comes with the territory.
    It can lead to more inbound calls and maybe from men who hope for a, “Happy Ending.”
    Many Legitimate Massage Therapists deal with that issue all the time.
    My hunch, based on Dylan’s history, he is very open to sexual massages. I’m just surprised he does not have two price points.
    More money for, “Happy endings.”
    He would get it.

    Gotta give him some credit for moving on and leaving Joe behind and carving out his own life and income.

    As far as he is concerned, he’s rebuilding his life the best way he knows how.

    • Bill 2
      10/27/2010 at 10:16 PM

      Leaving Joe behind? That’s interesting. Where did you get that information?

      I had assumed Ward would be living in Price’s Florida home in order to maintain it as a “family” residence. If they lose the court case to Kathy Wone, they could lose that residence if they can’t claim it as their main homestead. Upon reading that Ward is in Florida, I assumed it meant he’s still tied to Price and living in the house to save it from possible loss in the court case. What info do you have that takes him out of that scenario and has him leaving Price behind? Is he back at his former hangout with friends in a condo in Wilton Manors?

      • Rich
        10/27/2010 at 10:57 PM

        Good Points.

        Just wanted to believe he was moving on with his life after the last trial and upcomiong one.

        Your theories are all logical.

    • Clio
      10/27/2010 at 10:22 PM

      He would get it? In South Florida without a studio? I guess the golden years for many gay men are not so golden, and thus Dyl might seem in their price and looks range. Nonetheless, as I have pointed out before, there are many much more muscled and “cut” masseurs in southern Florida than just Mr. Ward in that most unattractive gray tanktop. Dyl does not stand a chance, if he just does happy endings, middles, and beginnings. He has to appear legit.

    • Also From the Post Story
      10/28/2010 at 10:17 AM

      > I’m just surprised he does not have two price points.

      Well, according to Doug’s post, for 1 1/2 hours he charges MORE than 1 1/2 times what he charges for one hour. Despite the fact that he has to travel to and from a customer’s address on his own time.

      Is this pricing a dog-whistle to well-tuned customers’ ears?

      • Bruce
        10/28/2010 at 11:30 AM

        Yes, I also noted the “non-deal” on the hour and a half.

        Course I’m naive on massage ads, as dead octopussies rarely, if ever, engage the services of masseurs, sexually or otherwise.

        And I never took that elective college course: “Massage is from Venus/”Sensual” is for Uranus.

        I’m here all week, folks.

  8. AnnaZed
    10/27/2010 at 9:37 PM

    Well, the commenters on this site don’t seem to have any illusions about the nature of the massage services offered on and comment openly about “upgrading” and “escort” services offered. They also speak candidly about seeking and paying for “release,” which I assume to mean male sexual orgasm. I keep reading posts by customers that describe “…looking for a massage therapist…therapeutic BUT also with the erotic touch (i.e, happy ending).” [their words]

    Here is a guy explaining exactly what erotic full-body massage is (it sounds like a lot of hard work):

    I am pretty sure that when a masseur like Dylan who has certifications and qualifications posts his ad along with other practitioners calling themselves “studlyrager,” “mikestud,” “domtopmaster” etc. they aren’t laboring under any illusions about the nature of the services that the customers are seeking either.

    It seems from these sites that there is a subculture of men who like to have real genuine massages that they consider to be therapeutic that also culminate in their having orgasms (an more power to ‘em!). Seems like this involves no penetration (or even the most blatant of these advertisers know better than to mention it if there is), which is probably a safe choice unless your masseur is an unindicted murderer or something, and really ~ what are the odds of that?

    Sounds like lots of fun and all, but it’s still hooking.

    I also fervently believe that Dylan’s relationship with Joe was at least initially that of a professional sex worker and a john and that no matter how much lipstick they tried to put on that pig or how much the two of them lied to and manipulated Victor and the other people around them that at its core it always remained a sex worker and john relationship as far as Dylan was concerned.

    So, let’s see, Dylan Ward is a summa cum laude graduate of Georgetown University. He is also a trained chef matriculated from a famous and elite culinary institute. He also has a Masters Degree from Simmons College and is a published author yet he still makes a living working on random strangers’ bodies (with or without penis-work upgrades we’ll say for the sake of argument). I don’t call that taking care of himself to the best of his ability, I call that extreme dysfunction.

    • Rich
      10/27/2010 at 9:44 PM

      Dysfunction or not. it is what he knows.

      He thinks he is moving on…

      • AnnaZed
        10/27/2010 at 9:49 PM

        Oh, you are absolutely right about that.

        • Clio
          10/27/2010 at 10:56 PM

          What would Dostoyevsky do with a character like Lil Dyl? I guess the title Crime and Punishment has already been taken!

          • Bruce
            10/28/2010 at 8:42 PM

            Come on, Dear Clio, you already know the answer:

            1869 – Idiot (Идиот); English translation: “The Idiot.”

      • Rich
        10/28/2010 at 8:43 PM

        I May be a Bit Late to the Party…

        But, For all of you who have already checked out Dyl’s ad on, I learned he can track by you by IP Address.

        Of course, if you email him, he has your email.

        He is notified by Massuerfinder of all people who click on his page.

        Just an FYI….

        • Clio
          10/28/2010 at 9:04 PM

          Thanks, Rich, for yet another creepy and off-putting message. It is Halloween after all, and it is also the second anniversary of Mr. Ward’s stay in the Florida clink. How appropriate!

          I for one cannot wait to book my next massage in Miami — with anyone (including a real woman) BUT Lil Dyl. But that’s just me.

          • Rich
            10/28/2010 at 9:19 PM

            As per usual, NOT CREEPY AT ALL.

            Just an advisement.

            Be warned.

            Maybe, that’s what you need. the touch of a woman. 🙂

        • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
          10/28/2010 at 9:15 PM

          Rich says:

          “he can track by you by IP Address”

          so? All he can find out about me is my internet provider and approximate location.

          Unless he’s a hacker, I’m not concerned.

          • Susan
            10/28/2010 at 10:02 PM

            Agree CD. From what I know, and anyone else can weigh in, the only way additional information may be obtained is via legal means. As I understand it it’s a tool sometimes used by law enforcement, but otherwise, issuance of that info. would violate privacy, security rights.

          • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
            10/28/2010 at 10:05 PM

            Denton, thanks, I’m familiar with IP addresses and domains.

            If anyone does a domain name search on me, the only info they will get (in my case) is my web designer’s (registrant) information. Not mine.

            If they do an IP address search, they will get information that has nothing to do with me. The information associated with my IP address is the server owners and location.

            If I post from my job, they MIGHT know where I work (depending on how my law firm sets up their servers), but they still don’t know my name.

            Most people use for ip address and domain name searches.

            If the editors know my name or any other other personal information about me, let me know. I’ve got a hat next to me that I will eat, if you do. (no, I’m not stacie…that’s my webdesigner.)

            • denton
              10/28/2010 at 10:21 PM

              CDinDC: With the new age of technology, one should be very careful visiting one’s site. My posts were removed many times although I didn’t use words, language, or contents that were any differences than others.

              Strange but true, feel like Halloween is here early!

              • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
                10/28/2010 at 10:24 PM

                I’m not sure why you are comparing the removal of your posts to IP address security.

                • denton
                  10/28/2010 at 10:50 PM

                  There is no “comparison.” I am stating the “facts” regarding the IP subject and how the site owner controls it.

            • Rich
              10/28/2010 at 10:25 PM


              I think, not certain, the Eds have your email address from when you registered with WMRW.

              Maybe, not.

              • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
                10/28/2010 at 10:39 PM

                Rich, yes, the editors have my email address.

                • Rich
                  10/28/2010 at 10:44 PM

                  “If the editors know my name or any other other personal information about me, let me know. I’ve got a hat next to me that I will eat, if you do.”

                  Thought that meant, you didn’t think the Eds had your contact information.

                  • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
                    10/28/2010 at 10:47 PM

                    Rich, yes, the editors have my email address, but they do not know my real name or address or anything else that would allow them to contact me any other way than via email.

                    The point is, is that Dylan would not be able to identify me via my IP ADDRESS.

            • AnnaZed
              10/28/2010 at 10:46 PM

              CD, denton has a very special (one might term it excessive) interest in the doings of all posters here and has extensively researched every post that any of us might have ever made in our lives on any site anywhere on the net (if the same handle is employed). He finds it all very sinister and enthralling.

              • Rich
                10/28/2010 at 10:53 PM

                Gee, in all this time, I would never call Denton, “Sinister?”

                He’s a bit of a Goody Two-Shoes.

                Denton is pretty moral.

                Don’t you think?

                • AnnaZed
                  10/28/2010 at 10:57 PM


                • AnnaZed
                  10/28/2010 at 10:58 PM

                  However, if you actually read what I said, I did not call him “sinister.” (grammar, it’s your friend)

                  • Rich
                    10/28/2010 at 11:04 PM


                    Just do not think he THINKS like a sinister person.


                    we’ve never met.

              • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
                10/28/2010 at 10:54 PM

                Jokes on him then. The numerous CDinDC’s on the internet aren’t me.
                I’m not 19, nor do i live in Wisconsin. ha.

                I use unique monikers for most websites.

              • AnnaZed
                10/28/2010 at 11:07 PM

                Just more junk made in China with different decals on it. There is no bicycle frame manufactured that I am not familiar with.

                But I got your joke, cute!

            • Bill 2
              10/28/2010 at 11:20 PM

              Be careful, CD. You mentioned stacie, so you-know-who is probably doing searches for a webdesigner with that name. 😉

              I found out that the place that has the most info on me is Disney World. When I was gifted with a pass, I turned in the paperwork and they already had my name, DL number, e-mail, home address, and my index fingerprint on file. They knew the dates of my previous visits and my occupation. It was spooky and I wasn’t anywhere near the Haunted Mansion. All day in EPCOT, there was the feeling that someone may be watching me.

              • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
                10/29/2010 at 10:00 AM

                Here’s what freaks me out….the ReCaptcha anti-bot system. (For those unfamiliar, it’s a system in which you type the squiggly words or numbers in a box to confirm you are a human and not a machine.)

                I interact frequently with a government agency that uses this system. The words that appear that I am supposed to type in have been, on more than one occasion, names or locations that I am familiar with. My boss’s last name, for example. My hometown. All too weird.

                • Cara
                  10/29/2010 at 10:08 AM

                  So *that’s* what that thing is called. I agree, it can be spoooooky.

        • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
          10/28/2010 at 9:26 PM

          Oh, by the way… do you know what does for it’s advertisers?

          • Rich
            10/28/2010 at 10:03 PM

            I asked.

            It’s easy.

  9. Rich
    10/28/2010 at 10:58 PM



    Preaching to choir on that one.

    if you’re IP Address is linked to your designer, than, yes, he will not find you personally.

    Although, I think, we can all agree, Dyl is pretty resourceful. 🙂

    • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
      10/28/2010 at 11:03 PM

      HA! I wouldn’t call him resourceful. Resorting to the oldest profession in the world, isn’t exactly resourceful. Massage, that is. 😀

      • Rich
        10/28/2010 at 11:07 PM

        It is lucarative, though.

        Who knows?

        Maybe he’s working hard to pay off the civil judgement.

        at 100 per hour at 2080 per year (40 hour work week) that is $208k per annum.

        Better than beer money.

        He might make it.

        • Clio
          10/29/2010 at 7:02 AM

          At 40 plus, Dyl could never get that kind of loyal and growing customer base. Plus, within the realm of probability, one can only do a handful of intense, sensual massages a day; one has to conserve one’s own energies and fluids, according to informed sources. IMHO, he won’t make it!

          BTW, I loved Diane Lane’s hair and wardrobe in the new film Secretariat: maybe, Brook can get some tips from seeing that film.

  10. boofoc
    10/29/2010 at 5:58 PM

    Dylan’s massage ads (both of them) are interesting, but most interesting is the later one restricting services to “out-calls only” and the fact that a comment by a 10/23/10 “customer” says he and his partner have been using Dyl’s services for “a few years now” and says further he was serviced by Dyl at Miami Shores, FL. Joe’s and Victor’s Florida “homesteaded resience” is at 550 NE 94th Street, Miami Shores, FL.

    I visited that address out of curiosity yesterday and sat in my car out front for almost an hour; if Dylan is doing “in calls” there, contrary to the ad, there sure weren’t a horde of clients waiting to be serviced. Perhaps the client who claims to have been serviced by Dylan in Miami Shores was erviced at his own or another’s home or office; don’t think there’s a hotel or motel in Miami Shores, which is seemingly exclusively residential.

    The house at 550 NE 94th, by the way – for anybody who’s interested – is a modest white one-story stucco ranch-style home among what appeared to be the homes of families with small children (toys, swings, etc.). From the front, it appeared to have no garage; there was no driveway at all in front. Thinking of the future need for some way for the intruder to get in, I tried to drive around back. Sure, there’s an alley behind the house, but it’s gated (!) with a sign on the locked gate reading simply “STOP” in bright red. The intruder, if there’s a future need for one, will have to park on the side street and walk down to the back of #550, a half block. Couldn’t see if there is a fence to climb, but maybe I’ll get the key/combination to the gate if I book with Dylan (if he’ll do an in-call at #550). The home’s current value, perhaps $600,000 – $750,000 (several in the block for sale). I took pictures, but somebody ran off with my camera in the middle of the night.

    Speaking of Dylan, if it’s true he can trace me by my having gone to his site, I’m waiting for his call; I do think he’s “boyishly cute,” Clio; and I am a “pensioner client.” But, AnnaZ’s suggestion of his not including “penetration” in his massage ad because of the “unindicted murderer status” scares me away. (NOTE, Dylan, that was not my statement/accusation; repeat, not mine.)

    • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
      10/29/2010 at 6:08 PM

      boofoc says “Couldn’t see if there is a fence to climb, but maybe I’ll get the key/combination to the gate if I book with Dylan (if he’ll do an in-call at #550).”

      This is creepy. It’s a little stalkerish, boo.

      • Craig
        10/29/2010 at 6:11 PM

        CD – Boof has been vetted. No stalker he.

        • Rich
          10/29/2010 at 6:17 PM

          Good for you, Craig.

          Doing Your Job.

          Backing up posters who are being unfairly and unnecessarily attacked.

        • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
          10/29/2010 at 6:19 PM

          Still creepy, Craig.

          • denton
            10/29/2010 at 6:30 PM

            …and “so” ON TOPIC!

            • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
              10/29/2010 at 6:36 PM

              It’s completely on topic.

              I would hope this would be the last straw for Craig.

              • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
                10/29/2010 at 6:47 PM


              • Bea
                10/29/2010 at 7:23 PM

                Oh boy.

                • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
                  10/29/2010 at 7:26 PM

                  I think that was tucked inbetween the 3 of diamonds and and 4 of clubs.

      • Bea
        10/29/2010 at 7:26 PM

        I’ve liked boof’s posts in the past and appreciate his willingness to stake-out the house. I don’t see it as ‘stalking’ – thought many times that if I’d still lived in the DC area I might have staked-out Aunt Marcia’s house in McLean to see what kind of comings and goings there were. I worked as an investigator for a law firm as an undergrad so maybe others see ‘stalker’ when I see the more legit ‘stake-out’ since there’s no desire to interact, just see what’s going on.

        • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
          10/29/2010 at 7:36 PM

          I don’t know, Bea. You had a reason to do that…it was your job.

          But this is like the people that were driving by Casey Anthony’s house to get a glmpse of her. And what is anyone going to do with that glimpse? “I saw her!”

          What if Dylan sees someone sitting in front of his house? What if he approaches the person. What if he gets angry? I know we are all adults and can make up our own minds, but I find this reckless.

          I think because many of us have followed this case for so long we feel we are “close” to it. But we aren’t. I don’t think any of the readers/contributors on this blog should be taking matters into their own hands. Staking out someone’s home.

          It’s not much different than Rich emailing Kathy Wone, which many people found appalling.

          ::shrug:: IMHO too each his own, I guess.

          Safety Sue

          • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
            10/29/2010 at 7:37 PM

            PS…maybe “stalking” was harsh. (Sorry Boo!)

        • Rich
          10/29/2010 at 7:53 PM

          You go, Girl.

        • Rich
          10/29/2010 at 9:00 PM

          “His willingness to stake-out the house.”

          Guess, I did it again.

          I cannot quite remember, but, I think had confused Chi Law for a man months before she passed away.

          All this time, I thought, “Boo,” was a woman.

          If so, I’ll meet you at Haulover, Boo.

          On my way in hours….

    • Rich
      10/29/2010 at 6:18 PM

      Loads of typos in my last post.

      But, overall, you did good, kiddo.

    • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
      10/29/2010 at 7:06 PM

      boo, I guess the thing for me is that one or more of these men may be a murderer. Someone in that house may have stabbed the life out of another human being.

      Just because he looks like an average person and we talk about them on a daily basis doesn’t lessen the fact that he/they could be dangerous.

      None of us have any idea what these people are capable of.

      I don’t think it’s wise for anyone to venture into their world.
      And I don’t think the editors should look lightly on it.

      • Rich
        10/29/2010 at 7:17 PM

        My, My…

        It never occurred to me all the criticism to date was out of conceren for my welfare.

        All this time, I simply thought you lovely women were calling me names. 🙂

        You just do not want me to imagine running into them on the street.

        • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
          10/29/2010 at 7:22 PM

          Rich….I don’t give a shit what YOU do. If you want to rush into the arms of Dylan, Joe or Victor, be my guest.

          That was directed at boofoc, who by all accounts is a very nice person. You, on the other hand, are a bore.

          • Rich
            10/29/2010 at 7:49 PM

            A, B-O-R-E!

            CD are you smoking that funny stuff AGAIN?

            You’re Mellowing.

            You much more capable of coming up with far more harmful langage, than BORE.

            You could do better.

            Knock yourself out.

            Everyone here is watching. 🙂

            • boggled
              10/29/2010 at 9:04 PM

              Perhaps CD meant a “boor”.

              • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
                10/29/2010 at 9:53 PM

                No…I meant bore. But he’s a boor, as well.

                nuisance, pain (informal), drag (informal), headache (informal), yawn (informal), anorak (informal), pain in the neck (informal), dullard, pain in the arse (taboo informal), dull person, tiresome person, wearisome talker

                • Rich
                  10/29/2010 at 10:04 PM

                  There you go…

                  Posture yourself as an intellect.

                  Folks may fall for it.

                  • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
                    10/29/2010 at 10:06 PM


    • Susan
      10/29/2010 at 7:47 PM

      Thanks, Boof,

      Appreciate the first-hand description of “Swann” South/the Winter homestead. Perhaps if you reside in that general ‘hood you might have a sighting at a nearby shop or night spot and report back here if anything you might see/hear is of interest.

      And I believe you clearly know that, as CD pointed out, just because someone may be comely or seductive or have general good looks (or not, depending on one’s opinion) doesn’t mean they are safe, not safe or anything. And so–no massage for you! Not from LD, unless you bring a pal along to ensure you are okay. And not until, if ever, he is cleared from suspicion. And not until you give all those other superior masseurs that Clio says are out there a chance.

    • Bill 2
      10/29/2010 at 11:05 PM

      I googled that address several weeks ago and got an overhead photo that shows a garage in the rear, with a high fence around the pool and patio area. You could zoom in and out to see the distance from the Bay, I-95, etc.

      There are other photos online that show houses from the street level but I didn’t know how to access that website and wasn’t really interested in further details.

      My hope is that they lose to Mrs. Wone in a big way and that the state of Florida won’t accept Ward as being part of the legal family of the owner, thus not allowing it as Price’s main homestead. That way, they can lose the house.

      • Rich
        10/29/2010 at 11:13 PM

        Dear Bill2:

        I bet Kathy’s Attorney’s work hard to make that happen.

        This is one case where Joe will not quietly slip under the radar with The State of Florida.

        He’ll be watched.

  11. Rich
    10/29/2010 at 6:11 PM


    I’m intrigues over your curioisty and checking Dyl out.

    As you know, many posters on this site will call you, “Creepy,” and wrose for even thinking about it, yet, alone doing it.

    “Outcalls,” makes ssense for Massage therapists who do not have the facilities at home or do not want strangers (customers) to know where they live.

    Going out that way in the morning for over one week.

    Thank you for the overview.

    • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
      10/29/2010 at 6:15 PM

      Rich, do you have any inmate penpals?

      • Bruce
        10/29/2010 at 7:42 PM

        Enough, please.

        • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
          10/29/2010 at 9:55 PM

          me? how about Rich, Bruce?

          • Rich
            10/29/2010 at 10:07 PM

            Again, it’s all on th record.

            Re-read today’s posts.

            My only fault is responding to your class-less-ness.

            Off to Florida and over you.


            • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
              10/29/2010 at 10:17 PM

              You’re so smug, Rich.

              • Rich
                10/29/2010 at 10:37 PM


                That’s Italian, for “Thank You.”

        • Bruce
          10/29/2010 at 10:59 PM

          Sorry, meant everyone!

      • Rich
        10/29/2010 at 7:52 PM

        As a matter of fact, I do.

        I even visit them.

        Maybe, because, unlike you, I’m open to humanity.

  12. Susan
    10/29/2010 at 8:24 PM

    To the person who wrote a few days ago about a possible intruder:

    I still go through the mental exercise of a possible unknown intruder being the guilty party. The problem I and many run into reminds me of something from Harry Potter, Book # whatever and this fictional elixir–“Felix Felicis.” The person who drinks this has a day of pure luck. That’s what an intruder would have to have hypothetically had to have committed RW’s murder. Door miraculously left open, etc., etc. It’s all here on this site.

    If you read through it and do some research you may come up with new theories or something we’d benefit from your sharing. I still come across posts, etc. I haven’t read before.

  13. boofoc
    10/29/2010 at 8:51 PM

    Thanks, Craig. It’s great to have friends in high places.

  14. boofoc
    10/29/2010 at 10:40 PM

    Rich: Just noticed above you thought I am a woman (?) And you’re looking for me at Haulover (?) HUH?

    CDinDC: No apology/explanation/backpeddling necessary.

    Susan; Seeing any of the SwannThree in SoFl will become more likely as the DC/MD/VA weather gets colder.

    All: Some distinct parts of my post were tongue-in-cheek.

  15. Rich
    10/29/2010 at 10:53 PM

    Now, I’m looking for you at Haulover!

  16. boofoc
    10/30/2010 at 1:48 PM

    Bill 2: Dylan’s relationship (or non-relationship)to Joe and/or to Victor has no bearing on the homestead exemption granted by FL law, but there are citizenship requirements (i.e., voting in FL, registering vehicles in FL and otherwise evidencing one’s intention to be a FL citizen – not a DC, MD or VA citizen. I realize I’m not educating Joe & Victor if they read this. They’re way ahead of us

    • Bill 2
      10/30/2010 at 4:37 PM

      boo, while those things can be used as a proof of citizenship, I believe the owner is required to live in the home for a certain percentage of the year. There are senior citizens who don’t own vehicles and don’t drive, but they still get homestead execption for living in the residence that they own.

      Price could register his car in Florida, get a Florida drivers license, and vote absentee ballot but never set foot in that house for a year or two. Those proofs of citezenship can be in his wallet, but they don’t make him a resident of that house; only an owner. He could be the owner of five houses in Florida but still can’t claim any as his homestead unless he spends enough time in one of them to establish it as his main residence.

      A homestead exemption notice is sent out to homeowners once a year. I believe that is where they list the requirement for residency vs. just ownership.

      • AnnaZed
        10/30/2010 at 5:06 PM
        • Bill 2
          10/30/2010 at 5:52 PM

          You’re right, it looks easy for a motivated liar to meet these requirements for tax purposes. Still, I think that if there were a Fred Goldman-type on the other side, the homeowner could lose the homestead designation by someone bringing proof that the homeowner’s permanent domicile is elsewhere.

          The property appraiser makes the determination in regard to taxes and homestead exemption for the county and state, but don’t you think a court determination would be going beyond just that tax requirement and involve proof of living in the residence?

          Didn’t OJ Simpson move his children into that Florida McMansion prior to the start of the case he lost to Fred Goldman?

          • AnnaZed
            10/30/2010 at 6:12 PM

            I think that you are probably right that once the motivated liar has a determined opponent in a civil case with a positive judgment in hand that just having your bank statements mailed to your Florida address just won’t cut it. Maybe Joe has a subscription to the New Yorker delivered there as well; if for no other reason so that Dylan can keep himself occupied between sorting mail deliveries and servicing johns.

            • Bea
              10/30/2010 at 7:07 PM

              My guess is that Victor will move there right before trial – after Joe has finally dumped him for someone else but keeps him stringing along during the course of trial (because Victor will believe anything Joe says – wonder what lie Joe told Victor after the reported canoodling at Union Station?). Of course if Victor will put up with an in-house mistress, what WON’T he put up with?

              • Susan
                10/30/2010 at 7:45 PM


                My perspective of VZ, based on what little I have read of him, is that family is what keeps him glued to JP(based on his letter re family bonds). Maybe that’s what made him accept DW into the pic. V was already entwined in the family thing.

              • Bill 2
                10/30/2010 at 7:48 PM

                I can’t begin to tell you how much I have enjoyed every remark you’ve ever made about Victor Zaborsky. My thoughts about him almost always match yours but I also get an audio “vision” and wish that we had audio on this site. I’d really enjoy hearing you speak your thoughts about him because you write it with such passion that the words can’t merely sit on the page.

                Sometimes your Zaborsky tirades come through like Glenda Jackson in “Elizabeth R” and other times it’s the voice of Barbara Stanwyck in “The Big Valley.” Maybe now that I’ve provided a voice or two for your rants, Victor will pay closer attention to your message. Wouldn’t that be great!

                • Susan
                  10/30/2010 at 7:58 PM


                  Not sure if you mean me or Bea, but I know Bea has had a lot of insight re V and I remember learning about him from her earlier posts so I wouldn’t be surprised if you meant her. Either way it’s a nice comment.

                  • Bill 2
                    10/30/2010 at 8:07 PM

                    Hi Susan, Yes, it was for Bea. Any time she writes about that guy, it’s always with real passion. I love that last line: “Of course if Victor will put up with an in-house mistress, what WON’T he put up with?” It’s right out of a sitcom and at the same time it’s serious, but it’s right on target.

                    • Bea
                      10/30/2010 at 10:40 PM

                      Mostly I want to b-slap Victor. I suspect that he WAS a very kind man before he sold his soul to keep himself married to Joe Price. What a price he’s paid – indeed his life will never be the same – nor will Kathy Wone’s.

  17. boofoc
    10/30/2010 at 9:13 PM

    Bill 2, et al: A hilarious anomaly: The Republican currently running for the U.S. Senate from WV, a millionaire who lives with his wife in a “homesteaded” home in Palm Beach, FL is claiming WV residence/citizenship. His wife claims the homestead exemption on(presumably “owns”) the ocean-front mansion in Palm Beach.

    • Clio
      10/31/2010 at 6:47 PM

      The Tea Party does have its share of carpetbagging hypocrites, but, then again, so did the original Republican Party!

      BTW, will Eric Holder survive any planned Obama Cabinet reshuffle in response to the expected tsunami of Democratic losses in the midterm? If not, maybe, he can join us as chief legal analyst: he cannot possibly do a less inspired job than his sleepwalking through that news conference of August 2007.

  18. Clio
    10/31/2010 at 2:44 PM

    Thanks, Editors, for that look at the literary character Dylan Ward. For those wanting to see a much different Sarah Morgan (and who wouldn’t,) reread 1992’s Sarah Morgan: The Civil War Diary of A Southern Woman, edited by Charles East. Like the trouple’s downstairs tenant, this Sarah Morgan was on the wrong side of history, but, at least, this earlier one from Louisiana challenged some of her Family’s precepts and prejudices.

    BTW, Happy Halloween, to all, except, of course, those who may be responsible for Robert Wone’s murder!

    • Kate
      11/04/2010 at 11:17 AM

      Clio – that is indeed one of my favorite period diaries and has proven invaluable in writing many an interpretive program.

  19. Bill 2
    10/31/2010 at 7:58 PM

    Bea – While I’d like to be there for the slap since he deserves it, I really think the guy needs to be deprogrammed, too. You probably remember a decade or two ago, when parents would get their off-spring kidnapped from a cult, taken off to some isolated deprogramming place, and get them back on track. While Zaborsky isn’t a member of a religious cult, he’s been totally brainwashed into thinking he’s part of a family and he needs a lot more than a few slaps (but let’s keep them part of it) to get out of that mindset. While there were abuses in the anti-cult movment, there are some people today who do some serious work to pull people away from bad situations. Not many situations are worse than being part of a murder and murder cover-up.

    I wish his family would look into this and rescue him from the clutches of the man who pretends to be his partner. They may be partners on some legal documents, but anyone with a modicum of intelligence knows Victor Zaborsky doesn’t have a loving partner, he has a partner in crime and nothing more.

    • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
      10/31/2010 at 8:37 PM

      I think Victor’s “brainwashing” started well before the murder.

      I’ve always seen Victor as a typical example of a “battered wife.” Although not physically abused (that we know of), Victor, IMO, meets the basic requirements of mentally and emotionally abused.

      After a few years into their monogamous relationship, Joe developed a relationship with the tenant downstairs. I can’t imagine this didn’t hurt Victor in the beginning. Most people would have removed themselves from the relationship. Victor, on the other hand, decided to let Joe have his way. He allowed Joe to have a permanent lover.

      I’ve known a few gay male couples that are allowed to dabble outside of the relationship, but they are required to “come home.” Joe wanted more than that. And Victor allowed it.

      Was he so in love with Joe that he would let Joe do what he wanted hoping, in the end, Joe would “come home?”

      I imagine Victor spent many restless night alone.

      • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
        10/31/2010 at 8:42 PM

        Quite a while back, I posed a question….I wonder what the typical sleeping arrangements were at 1509?

        Did Joe always sleep with Victor? Did Joe spend nights in Dylan’s room? Did Joe only sleep with Dylan when Victor wasn’t around? Did Joe and Dylan have sexual encounters freely?

        You have to figure all of this wore on Dylan, as well.

        • Bill 2
          11/01/2010 at 12:30 PM

          A lot of this can have a direct bearing on this case. It involves Price’s plans for that evening, an evening when he thought Zaborsky would not be around. Zaborsky suddenly shows up, plans are changed and it appears that there was some unhappiness regarding the outcome of the evening before anyone even went to bed. We know that Ward knew of some Price plans for the evening but Zaborsky had been kept in the dark about a houseguest. What did Sarah Morgan know regarding sleeping arrangements when Zaborsky was out of town? Is that why she left the house? We’ve been told about the easy way sound travels through the house – and even into the house next door.

          The determination of which person was supposed to be in which bed, and which person was actually in that bed, can have a direct bearing on the murder. Was Price really in bed with Zaborsky that night? Is Zaborsky so much under the thumb of Price that he’ll back him up on any tale he creates? Was Ward alone in his room throughout the late afternoon and evening or could he have had a visitor?

          None of this speculation is “lurid.” If it is seen by someone as lurid, that says a lot about the person making the accusation.

          • Craig
            11/01/2010 at 3:36 PM

            “Was Price really in bed with Zaborsky that night?” Good question. I’m skeptical.

            • Bea
              11/01/2010 at 6:10 PM

              I sincerely doubt Joe was on the third floor with Victor when Victor heard whatever it was which took him downstairs. His narrative was off for that to have occurred. He claimed things as having stopped on the landing to see what “we” could see but was behind Joe so must’ve stopped because Joe stopped. Much to Joe’s frustration, Victor is not of one mind with Joe, and it certainly ‘reads’ more logically that he was alone when he ventured downstairs – though I really doubt Victor has the spine and goodwill to humankind necessary for him to tell the truth and have Joe pay for whatever it is he did that night (and thereafter).

              • Susan
                11/01/2010 at 9:43 PM

                I think what Bill2 said earlier about the value of speculationn is spot on.

                To add to his analogies of the value of speculation, it seems that when one reads a book a second or third time, sees a movie again, revisits past episodes of ones own life, etc., time and age add nuance, perspective, fresh views, and/or maybe reinforce what you saw/believed in the first place.

                With that in mind, and reading the above conjectures about where JP was that night, it just seems more astonishing to me from this distance that JP sent V out of the room (so he says) and stayed with RW alone and no one went and got D. Ward.
                AND then V and D say they were “worried” (well, D used “worried”) that someone was still in the house while he sat on a couch out in the open.

                Dying man, knife, blood, your house. Down the hall LD’s room. Is he alive? Dead? Is the murderer still in the house? Each of the three guys acts oddly.

                1. Would you sit alone with a dying man who has been stabbed and still believe someone is in the house and send your companion upstairs to make a call?

                2. Would you go upstairs by yourself and assume someone may still be in the house who is a crazed person just killing randomly?

                3. Would you awaken from the noise, find out your guest has been stabbed with a kitchen knife and is dying and dead and then, go sit on a couch in another room and say you are “worried” about an “intruder”?

                4. Seeing your close friend stabbed and not seeing your other partner DW, wouldn’t you wonder where the hell he is?

                5. Knowing that this all seems unbelievable but knowing you’re innocent, wouldn’t you do everything you could, if you believe the police have botched the investigation so far, to find the “intruder” including hiring a private detective to work on your behalf?

                Just some speculative questions that come to mind from looking back on the testimony from the three that night.

          • Bruce
            11/01/2010 at 9:50 PM


            Sorry, you don’t like the word “lurid,” and it is probably not the right word for what I mean. Can someone help me with the right word?

            Just under this “Tricks or Treats” topic, we’ve seen:

            “Happy Endings” (mentioned 3 times), “male sexual orgasm” or “orgasm” (2 times), “penetration” (2 times), “conserve one’s fluids,” “Crisco,” “Studleyrager,”
            “prostitute,” “Parliament House” (talk about your lurid!), “Mr. Int’l Rubber,” “trolled,” “Domtopmaster,” “the touch of a woman,” “in-house mistress,” “battered wife,” “Kill the Queen to claim his throne next to the King,” and the worst offender of all: “canoodling” (2 times!):)

            Is somebody getting off on all this stuff?????????

            My point, and I do have one, is that all of this is just “flights of fancy” to me, kinda mindless chatter, if you will.

            It may give the writer a thrill, but it doesn’t to me. When you are dealing with real humans.

            Maybe we are all doing it to give ourselves a “breather” because we know much is to happen soon on the civil suit.

            I am no prude, just seems like a waste of time with no real goal in sight.

            Somehow, and I can’t quite understand it, some people have interpreted my earlier post on this subject as indicating that I am against speculation.

            My God, I love speculation, when it is going somewhere. I agree that the Poirots and Agatha Christies are wonderful in that they find speculation, etc., and work on it to find the killer, but at least in that there is a true goal.

            Police investigators at the beginning of a crime usually only have speculation, and they have to tear it apart to come to a reasonable conclusion and either arrest or let someone go.

            Please don’t think of me as a hater of speculation!

            Look, I’m not saying to not post anything. Post away. There is really no police on this site but the editors. Speculate on the “Days of Our Lives” of the Swann 3 today as much as you want.

            I just felt that we were all going off course on our “hair salads” and “receding hairlines,” and “servicing johns.”

            Don’t think that any of it plays to our better angels.

            Just me, my opinion, fine if no one agrees with me. Done.

            • Susan
              11/01/2010 at 10:04 PM

              “I just felt that we were all going off course…”

              Hey Bruce. I don’t agree/am not interested in some of the items that are posted here. But the stuff about “Happy Endings,” etc., lurid as they may be, are actually connected to the principals connected to this crime. That one example was connected to LD’s massage ad.

              So back to “going off course.” Maybe. But here are two considerations for you.

              1. You needn’t be connected to/respond to/care about everyone’s post. That’s the blog of it all. Look for what interests you or do research and post something interesting or comment as it suits YOU.

              2. Re “going off course”:

              “There are many paths up the mountain.” Chinese proverb (or so it says on Google). There are similar sayings out there and the message is the same.

              Now I have overposted this eve. so that’s it for me (unless I just “have” to comment).

              • Bruce
                11/01/2010 at 10:55 PM

                Thanks, Susan. Wise thoughts.

            • Clio
              11/01/2010 at 10:55 PM

              “Like sands through the hourglass, these are the Days of our Lives!” But at least we are alive, Bruce; thanks probably to former male residents of 1509 Swann, Robert Wone is no longer so.

              Catty banter about weight and hair seems hardly a fair counterpoint to murder with a capital M. And, how would you (as former lifeguard and current churchgoer) know about the notorious Parliament House! Inquiring minds still want to know!

              • Bruce
                11/01/2010 at 11:04 PM

                Well, yeah….I guess a reasonable argument could be made that since many of us are sure the Swann 3 are murderers, there is free license to say anything in the world about them as to their current status we want, and all is fair including “hair salads.”

                I don’t personally subscribe to it, but heck!

            • Bill 2
              11/02/2010 at 3:20 PM

              Bruce – Strange that you find anything wrong with talk about “servicing johns,” when that could have a direct bearing on a murder. While the judge found that there was no intruder in the house that night, how do you know there was no john being serviced in Ward’s bedroom at the time Zaborsky arrived home? How do you know that there was no “john” welcomed into the house after Zaborsky went to bed?

              This whole case involves SEX, Bruce, but that seems to bother you like some boy in 7th grade who doesn’t want anyone to know he’s still a virgin when the SEX talk starts during recess.

              The relationship and SEX between the men at the time of the murder can all have a bearing on the case. The relationship, extracurricular canoodling, and SEX between the men today, surely has a bearing on the coverup of the murder and the possibilities of a break in the case. Perhaps you’ve forgotten, that the coverup is still going on, Bruce. The murder was four years ago. The coverup, despite the end of that trial, continues today.

              • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
                11/02/2010 at 3:39 PM

                Bill2…he’s a defense attorney. It’s in his DNA to throw up road blocks. Even though it’s not his case. LOL

                • Bruce
                  11/02/2010 at 5:35 PM


                  What road blocks?

                  Say what you want, do what you will.

                  Who’s stopping you????

                  It’s a free country.

                  Did I suggest to anyone that they shouldn’t post anything?

                  I don’t have that power.

                  You and Bill2 apparently think I do and am exercising it, but I don’t and I’m not.

                  Just stating my opinions.

                  Let’s bring down the tone as to my posts on this subject.

                  You are apparently reading too much in to them, and as far as I am concerned post about SEX SEX SEX and hair salads, who is sleeping with who now, and what they do, all day, for all I care.

                  I don’t subscribe to it, but that’s just me (apparently).

                  Don’t want anyone reading these posts to think that I necessarily agree by “silence.”

                  • Bruce
                    11/02/2010 at 5:37 PM

                    Before Clio corrects me, it is of course:

                    who is sleeping with whom.

                  • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
                    11/02/2010 at 6:45 PM

                    uhh, Bruce? didn’t you see the “LOL” at the end of my post. Just a little good-natured ribbing. Relax, my man. It’s all good! 😀

                    • Bruce
                      11/02/2010 at 7:53 PM


                • Bill 2
                  11/02/2010 at 7:12 PM

                  CDinDC – Washington murder mysteries crept into my DNA many years ago. Margaret Truman, an old family friend, kept me enthralled with her books that seemed to cover every important building and government agency in Washington. Her husband, Clifton Daniel, and I discussed the best place in DC to hide a body.

                  When there were WMRW discussions of the killer(s) possible plan to move Robert’s body away from Swann Street, my first thought was the hiding place at Quincy St. NE; perfect for any murder mystery writer.

                  • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
                    11/02/2010 at 7:42 PM

                    Bill2, you’ve been in the company of some amazing people!

                    Re the Quincy St property, it’s the stuff horror movies are made of.

              • Bruce
                11/02/2010 at 5:26 PM

                and SEX!

    • Bea
      10/31/2010 at 11:48 PM

      Agree Bill and CD – Victor is completely under Joe’s thumb. Why not a single friend or family member hasn’t taken him aside and said “he’s ruining your life – and will continue to hurt and humiliate you for the remainder of your life” I do not know. Or maybe they have but he’s drunk too much of Joe’s Kool-Aid to be ‘reached.’ From the accounts of his mother at the trial, she had a sense of right and wrong and a strong will – you’d think she’d be the one to do it and possibly have success. I wonder if Sarah Morgan ever tried – way back in the day when Dylan was claiming he’d kill the Queen to claim his throne next to the King. Not typically the kind of thing a friend likes to hear.

      Joe would drop Victor in a second if he didn’t need the financial and other kinds of stability that Victor provides – Victor is Joe’s parent and conscience. Must be hell to see yourself sit idly by while the man of your dreams calls Lil Dyl “the love of my life.”

      • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
        11/01/2010 at 9:22 AM

        Bea says: “Joe would drop Victor in a second if he didn’t need the financial and other kinds of stability that Victor provides”

        totally agree, Bea.

        I wonder, if at this time, Victor is giving financial support to Joe, since it seems that Victor has been working and Joe has not.

  20. LegallyConfused
    11/01/2010 at 9:16 AM

    Victor may well hold the key to unraveling what transpired on 8/2/06. Of the trouple, he has perhaps the most complex personality, and is the least understood of the three. It appears from what we know of him that he is the most stable of the three, and, is, at heart, a caring person. Arguably, he is the most humiliated of the trouple due primarily to Joe’s manipulation of Joe’s long running affair with Dylan. Victor, for whatever reasons, has kept his silence throughout the criminal trial and afterwards.

    Dylan, the dilettante, appears to be a lifetime learner, who garners degrees easily, and pursues knowledge for its own sake. Aided by his parents’ largesse, he is content to drift through life somewhat aimlessly. He makes no commitments in life.

    Joe is the outgoing, brash, self centered lawyer who believes he can extricate himself from any moral or legal dilemma that he encounters.

    Judge Liebovitz has said in her verdict that she believes at least one of the three knows what actually happened on August 2.

    In the civil trial, we can only hope that the Plaintiff’s attorneys through depositions of the defendants and witnesses, e-mails and other correspondence, phone logs, etc. can deduce what the mindset of this dysfunctional trouple was at the time of Robert’s murder.

    Unless, of course, one or more of the three defendants decides to tell what they do know.

    I am still betting that Victor may be the one with the conscience.

    • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
      11/01/2010 at 9:55 AM

      LegallyC says: “I am still betting that Victor may be the one with the conscience.”

      but you would think, if he DID have a conscience, he would have come forward by now.

      Joe’s thumb must be very heavy.

      • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
        11/01/2010 at 9:56 AM

        or Victor is more involved than we think he is.

        • LegallyConfused
          11/01/2010 at 12:15 PM

          CD, I agree. VZ may very well be involved. I don’t know. It is pure speculation based on what we know.

          If he is involved, I think that he is more likely to have remorse for his actions or inaction.
          Hence, I conclude that he may break ranks with the trouple–now that the trouple no longer appears to exist as a trouple.

          This may not be a strictly logical conclusion, but I do think it is rational within the context of Bruce’s remarks below. VZ certainly may have his reasons for his silence to date, and self preservation and self interest may be paramount to him now. But that can change. Guilt, remorse, revenge, redemption, etc. are all powerful motivators for a change of heart.

          • Bill 2
            11/01/2010 at 12:53 PM

            We don’t know that the trouple no longer exists. Is Ward staying in the Florida house in order to stake out their claim that it’s their residence? While it may be in the names of Price and Zaborsky, don’t you think Price would attempt to paint Ward as a family member in order to preserve that property?

            While Price may have been canoodling with another guy in Union Station in recent months, that doesn’t mean he’s not still in full control of Zaborsky. After all, Zaborsky sat around while Price had a relationship with Ward and we know there was also Price’s playtime with Hixon as well as another of Hixon’s tricks.

            While half of all marriages are said to end in divorce, we’re no longer looking at just a “marriage” or legal partnership. We’re looking at three people who are tightly bound together in the cover-up of a murder. It’s not just a connection in regard to an upcoming court case. It’s way beyond that. Somebody got away with murder and, if one of the trio tries to exit the trio, isn’t there the possibility of another murder (made to look like an accident, of course)?

            • Clio
              11/01/2010 at 11:36 PM

              For most gay men, time cools passions within intimate relationships anyway, giving way to sisterly solidarity. The Swann Street Three may have become as spiritually inseparable as the Witches of Eastwick — only a little bit distant from each other because of the lack of geographical proximity. But I bet they still send each other hard-copy, old-school greeting cards, minus the 2005-06 references to margarine, Crisco, and future plans.

    • Bruce
      11/01/2010 at 11:07 AM

      I guess all this lurid speculation about the “Days of Our Lives” of the Swann 3 yesterday, today and tomorrow, and pigeonholing them into categories is “on topic” for this blog, but it does not interest me too much, personally.

      As I have said previously, people usually act in their own self interest. Most of life is rational, with some interesting twists and turns along the way.

      Being free citizens of this country, any of the Swann 3 are certainly empowered to do whatever they want to do, including while the civil case continues on, and the there and hereafter.

      Doubt they are still “connected” in any way unless they want to be “connected.” Again, rationality and self-interest likely prevails.

      50% of marriages end in divorce. Can only imagine that the odds in a trouple may be much worse than that! People change and grow older.

      Not being “connected” now is no real threat to their defense except they certainly need to be in touch for the “joint defense.”

      Don’t know, of course, but doubt there is any Machiavellian
      plotting (“You stay with me or I Keel You!”), but who knows.

      As to Vic, he is getting something out of his relationships (whatever they are), or he most likely would not be in them. I think painting him as a mere mind-controlled robot cockold may be fun fantasy, but fantasy it likely is.

      Guess they deserve it, but I’m not real comfortable, myself, with useless speculation and bashing of the defendants as to their motivations and relationships now. Don’t particularly like that “witch’s brew.”

      Where does it get us? Where does it help us? Other than the fun of wild speculating, putting them down down down, and bashing people we don’t know and probably never will?

      Does this, in any way, really assist us in figuring out who murdered Robert Wone?

      • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
        11/01/2010 at 11:20 AM

        Bruce says: “As to Vic, he is getting something out of his relationships (whatever they are), or he most likely would not be in them. I think painting him as a mere mind-controlled robot cockold may be fun fantasy, but fantasy it likely is.

        Guess they deserve it, but I’m not real comfortable, myself, with useless speculation and bashing of the defendants as to their motivations and relationships now. Don’t particularly like that “witch’s brew.” ”

        Mind-control may be stretching it, but abusive relationships (physical, emotional and mental) do exist in male/male partnerships. The old belief that women are weak or not self-sufficient therefore they stay and men are strong and walk away is the fantasy.

        Re speculationm, this whole website is based on speculation. In fact, police investigations are based on speculation. They look for evidence to support their theories and beliefs. The nature of solving any crime is based on speculation, theories, beliefs, gut-instincts, etc. Facts elude us in this crime, except for the fact that a dead man was taken out of 1509 Swann Street.

        • Bruce
          11/01/2010 at 11:43 AM


          I agree with much of what you say, especially about the “speculation” business.

          My point, and it is only my opinion, is that this particular “speculation” isn’t really getting us anywhere. We don’t have, and will not likely ever have the “real story” about their current or past relationships.

          In my mind, there is not a scintilla of evidence suggesting that the Swann 3 are or were in an abusive relationship (physical, emotional or mental).

          Most of this seems like our mere projections or “moral” reckonings of their lifestyle that almost crosses over to what we would all like their relationships to be, so that we can dislike them even more.

          There are plenty of reasons to dislike the Swann 3 based upon what we know or for which there is some evidence.

          • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
            11/01/2010 at 12:09 PM

            Bruce says: “Most of this seems like our mere projections or “moral” reckonings of their lifestyle that almost crosses over to what we would all like their relationships to be, so that we can dislike them even more.”

            (Psychological) projections…LOL no. Moral reckoning of their lifestyle? Absolutely not. How a person chooses to live their life is not up to me. And frankly, I don’t care. If Joe wanted a foursome, and Victor/Dylan enjoyed having multiple sister-wives, more power to them.

            We are going to have to agree to disagree on “speculation” though. If it’s hard for you to digest you might need to put your blinders on. 😀

      • Bill 2
        11/01/2010 at 11:38 AM

        I’ve read many murder mysteries where speculation led to discovery of motives and an insight into which suspect to “hammer” in order to get him/her to reveal what he/she knows. The interaction between three suspects would seem very important, but does that only apply to make-believe people like Perry Mason, Hercule Poirot, and Jessica Fletcher?

        Even the police detectives seemed to speculate on the involvement between the gay men and what type of involvement those men had with Robert Wone. You could say that the speculation began the night of the murder and the speculation continues — within the police, legal, and viewing communities.

        If all speculation stops, wouldn’t that end any further investigation into the murder? As to painting the speculation as “lurid,” the murder of Robert Wone and whatever led to it, wasn’t something out of “Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm.”

        • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
          11/01/2010 at 11:49 AM

          Indeed B2.

          Subpoenaing Joe’s work emails is a speculative move. The attorneys involved want to see what they can ascertain from them.

          • Clio
            11/01/2010 at 11:20 PM

            Silences and selective memories (don’t ask, don’t tell, don’t pursue) — distancing oneself from what the original inhabitants of 1509 Swann in 1886 may have considered the “lurid” abyss — play right into Culuket’s hands. By seeing no evil or by speaking no evil, we give real evil a pass. Victor, are you taking notes here?

            (Pardon me, Bruce: I know how the use of the word “evil” pushes your sensitive, lawyerly buttons, but sometimes a rose, even a purple one, is just a rose, even in Chicago, darling.)

  21. boofoc
    11/01/2010 at 11:40 AM

    Who’s sleeping with whom these days?

    Eliminate Dyl, who is presumably in FL, either at Miami Shores or with friends at his haunts in Wilton Manor; then forget for a moment what he looks like and try to wrap your imagination around this picture: lying closely to Joe – close enough so your bodies touch – with sheer, almost unavoidable resentment (for what he’s done to you, to your lives together), resentment – almost bordering on hatred – pouring out of your very soul. I’ll bet Victor sleeps alone! (Or maybe he knows that Joe’s guilty of nothing more than inviting Dyl to live with them; then the whole imagined scenario in the bed changes; and all you have to consider is: what Joe looks like.)

  22. Rich
    11/01/2010 at 12:40 PM

    As for victor having. A conscience, je clearly proved it was abandoned during the criminal trial when as the verdict cme closet, he did not choke and come clean. That was the perfect time for him to break ranks.

  23. Cat from Cleveland
    11/01/2010 at 10:17 PM

    Has anyone in the know with the three ever said that Victor was unhappy? Do we know what his sexual interests are? Was he ever Joe’s dom? Was he into torture? Did he get bored with Joe? Was he into knife play? Do we know? Does he like to watch? I often feel like we’ve projected so many emotions upon him, but the projection is merely based on how we would feel if we were in his situation. In reality, he’s a black box. He may be a victim of Joe, he may not. He seems likable, but as we’ve discussed, so did Ted Bundy. In my view, we have as much reason to suspect him as either of the other two people in the house that night. Other than the fact that he seems very likable, is attractive, and apparently didn’t have a live-in lover and a spouse, why are we all so quick to assume he couldn’t be the killer?

  24. Bruce
    11/01/2010 at 10:34 PM

    No Rich, I don’t care to go down that road.

    My opinions are not directed to the “entire blog,” and are not trying to be critical, just setting forth my opinion.

    I do try now to respect others’ opinions on here, and try to stay away from unuseful diabribes. If I can be provocative (and I know that sometimes I can be) it really is to try to examine the issues and to promote debate.

  25. Rich
    11/01/2010 at 11:09 PM


    Pretty sire it gas been repeatedly said on this site:

    Victor was the”Active,” parter

    Joe was the “Passive,” partner

    Politically correct words that will infuriate some of our posters.

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