Dept. Of Corrections

Illuminating the Dark Days

Some comments have come in from distraught readers, some of the newbies, who wonder how they’ll get through the next ten days without trial news. 

The answer is simple:  do what the old -timers here have been doing  the last ten weeks, ten months, and even longer; break every piece of known evidence down to its subatomic particles.  Sometimes, the smaller the puzzle pieces are, the easier they are to fit together.

Photo courtesy: Washington City Paper

We hope to use the dark days to refresh, recover and recalibrate.   We’ll also have the chance to rectify a few inaccuracies that cropped up over the past few weeks on these pages.  

One particular error that came to light last week regarded the locking mechanism on the patio gate to 1509 Swann Street.   The testimony wasn’t clear for days, but we think we have it figured out in the wake of former MPD detective Bryan Waid’s time on the stand.

Based on defendant Joe Price’s statement to police, he said that the intruder would’ve climbed over the fence for entry and egress as well.  For months, this has led us to believe that the dead bolt on the heavy patio gate was keyed on both sides; it was not.  The inside of the lock had a thumb latch on it to release the deadbolt, the outside was keyed.

We learned this while Waid was testifying about the August 2008 bicycle theft at 1509.  The perp exited the patio area, with the bike, through the heavy metal gate, not over the fence.  From Sarah Morgan’s and Waid’s testimony, we learned that the gate was heavy and did not swing closed on its own; although it swung easily on its hinges, opening inwards to the patio, it had to be pulled shut.

The other ‘burglary’ from the neighborhood that was brought up last week was the one that allegedly occurred at 1417 Swann Street, two weeks after Robert’s murder in August 2006. 

We went on another field trip yesterday: not an Outward Bound adventure a la Tom Connolly however, just a photo shoot.

Good fences make for... confused neighbors?

Waid’s testimony on his redirect with AUSA T. Patrick Martin, about the attempted forced entry into 1417 Swann, was one of the more peculiar moments from last week. 

To underscore the high crime rate in the neighborhood, on cross, Waid was hit on an attempted burglary, less than a block away from 1509, that was reported in the days following Robert’s murder. 

It was said that a man scaled a chain link fence and tried to jimmy the backdoor lock to 1417 Swann, but the alert resident inside held onto the doorknob and thwarted the attempted breaking and entering.  The suspect then fled back over the chain link fence and disappeared, never found.

But it seems that this incident didn’t quite pan out; no police report was filed and the scene was never processed or dusted for prints.   Waid testified that upon further investigation, an occupant of the house doubted the veracity of his partner who reported it.  Was someone hoping to ride the coattails of Robert’s murder and report an alleged copycat crime just a few doors away? 

Thanks to the overnight commenter who provided these real  estate links for the property. 

Whatever chain link fence that may have been on the rear of 1417 Swann is long gone, replaced by a wooden stockade, about six feet high.  Also on the property line of 1417, was one of those mercury vapor lights, the type that line most DC alleys and streets.  Anyone trying to break into that backyard under cover of night wouldn’t have had much cover, just plenty of illumination.

 –posted by Craig

71 comments for “Dept. Of Corrections

  1. Bob
    06/05/2010 at 11:38 AM

    Can the editors explain why Day 12 Wrap has been locked down? Most other wrap and update pages are not locked down. If it was accidentally locked down, can they reopen it?

    • Craig
      06/05/2010 at 1:24 PM

      Bob: After posts get close to and over 200 comments, the threads start to get unruly and the pages take forever to load on my 286.

      • Turtlejay
        06/05/2010 at 1:55 PM

        Your 286. You are so cute.

        (seriously, not sarcastically)

      • Bob
        06/05/2010 at 2:41 PM

        1. Does that mean that you lock down any page that has a “sufficiently large” number of comments? If so, that makes technical sense.

        2. An expression that is occasionally used in my line of work about a small home machine is “Get a real computer!”

        3. The issue probably is not the size of your computer anyway but your bandwidth.

      • NYer
        06/05/2010 at 5:17 PM

        I’ve seen on occasion some comments deleted too which helps I’m sure with managing. Some of the annoying ones in my opinion are when people use a post to correct a small typographical error, when it was clear what they meant. Or, use a post to point things like this out. 🙂

  2. Bill Orange
    06/05/2010 at 2:52 PM

    Wait a minute. So the “intruder” jumped the gate on the way out, rather than trying to see if he could just open it and walk out? Oh, come ON.

    • apple
      06/05/2010 at 3:15 PM

      Could you refresh my memory—how do we know the gate wasn’t used on the way out?

      • Bob
        06/05/2010 at 3:31 PM

        Was the gate closed when the police arrived? If the gate was used on the way out, would the ninja have taken the time to close it?

        • ladyg
          06/05/2010 at 7:32 PM

          i’m telling you, this is one of the world’s best ninja. he quiet, knows his/her way around their kitchen, to get their weapon of choice..the knife (he has the lastest night vision goggles)doesn’t carrying his sachel (for his goodies) left that w the bike leaning against the back door/fence.

          he/she know exactly where to go up the stairs to the 2nd floor (must have the floor plans). he/she passes dylan room, cause the light is on (don’t want any hassles there). well let’s see what’s behind door #2 (the vault must be in there). with his/her, night vision they see the roledex watch and blackberry on the desk (maybe i’ll text partner#2), wait one minute what’s that, he/she hears the ruffling of bed cover.

          shoot now they have to take care of them and make quick (don’t leave a mess, cause something may come back and bite me), i have to make sure that i don’t hit the night table, w the door on my way out. got to scaddle now. boy iam glad that no one stole by bike, or i wouldn’t be able to make my get away. “this is the intruder’s version”. pleeeeeeeeese!!!

      • Bill Orange
        06/05/2010 at 4:16 PM

        I’m fairly certain it was locked, and the only way to lock it from the outside is with a key. Ergo, the gate was not used.

        • Bob
          06/05/2010 at 4:45 PM

          Maybe the intruder had a key.

          • Bill Orange
            06/05/2010 at 4:50 PM

            If the intruder had a key, they’re all guilty of obstruction. That’s sort of my point here.

            • apple
              06/05/2010 at 5:13 PM

              In Price’s statement, he tells the police that the intruder must have exited over the fence. When pressed about how he knows this, Price says “because the gate didn’t look ajar.” Yes, it would be strange for a fleeing intruder to shut the gate behind him, but not entirely impossible (and, at least to me, more likely than vaulting a fence). So, I’m just not sure wny Price would be motivated to make the story even more unbelievable. Maybe I’m missing something.

              • Bea
                06/05/2010 at 6:05 PM

                Apple, I agree – I suspect that the reason Price “guessed” that the intruder went BACK over the fence was that he’d not thought it through and pictured ‘him’ coming in OVER the fence so just in a rush said he must’ve gone over on his way out – same way. He hadn’t thought it through because, of course, there was no intruder. That and he knew there would not be prints on the back door knob (wonder if that one had been wiped clean as well).

                • Carolina
                  06/05/2010 at 6:41 PM

                  I’m betting there wasn’t a single print on that thumb latch.

                  • apple
                    06/05/2010 at 6:46 PM

                    That would pretty damaging. I wish we knew.

                  • AnnaZed
                    06/05/2010 at 8:21 PM

                    My understanding from the detective’s testimony is that there were no prints (none) on the door knobs, the glass door or the gate latch of any kind. That is to say not of the residents, not of anyone. I can’t believe that the prosecutors didn’t make more of this, but it stuck out to me.

                  • Bob
                    06/06/2010 at 11:30 AM

                    The ninja was wearing gloves, of course.

                    • Carolina
                      06/06/2010 at 1:30 PM

                      The ninja and everyone else in the home. I know Sarah is a lady, but even Nancy Reagan couldn’t bring back the little white gloves.

                • Bill Orange
                  06/05/2010 at 7:44 PM

                  That’s my take, too. If you read through Joe’s interview, you get the sense that it starts out as someone who thinks he’s successfully talking his way out of this. Toward the end, you get the sense that he realizes that he’s blown it. And he also realizes that if HE can’t pull this off, then neither can Dylan or Victor. Especially Dylan, who was already having trouble with the story before they even left the house. He realizes that he needs to cut his losses and get out, and he REALLY has to make sure he gets Dylan out of there. (Which, by the way, he wasn’t able to do. I’d really like to know about the FBI interview.)

    • Bea
      06/05/2010 at 6:08 PM

      I raised this issue a while ago – Joe’s story makes no sense. He just hadn’t thought that far ahead and knee jerk made the claim because that’s how the ‘intruder’ got in – hadn’t stopped to realize how stupid that intruder (in hot pursuit) would have to be to scale the damned fence instead of through the door. The detectives note this in the questioning. Joe tries the lame – well it wasn’t open – routine.

      • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
        06/05/2010 at 6:11 PM

        Well, like Joe said to Det. Waid, they didn’t have time to get their stories together. LOL

      • Craig
        06/05/2010 at 7:33 PM

        I think that the over-the-fence egress element is what led me to mistakingly believe the inside of the patio gate was also keyed. All of a sudden, the implausible got implausibler.

  3. Bob
    06/05/2010 at 2:55 PM

    I have a few legal questions.

    First, it is my understanding, but I am not a lawyer, that different parties to a conspiracy can join the conspiracy or quit the conspiracy at different times, but that does not prevent them from all being charged with the same conspiracy. Is that correct? (For instance, if Joe and Dylan were cleaning up the crime scene and Victor came upon it and then followed their narrative, could the judge conclude that J and D and V entered the conspiracy at different times?)

    Second, is it correct that if there was a conspiracy, and any overt act was committed as part of the conspiracy, guilt can go to all of the conspirators and not only the ones who committed the over act? (If one of the defendants tampered with evidence, can the other defendants be found guilty of tampering with evidence by means of the conspiracy?)

    Third, in the civil trial, can the transcript of the criminal trial be entered as evidence in the civil trial?

    Fourth, will there be both a redacted and a non-redacted transcript of the criminal testimony, with the redacted transcript omitting anything that the judge excluded? The reason that I could see for a non-redacted transcript is for the Court of Appeals to review whether the trial judge made the correct exclusions.

  4. christy love
    06/05/2010 at 3:04 PM

    Are there any stats on who convicts more: Judges or Juries? I’d bet Judges.

    • Bob
      06/05/2010 at 3:36 PM

      I think that your question needs to be clarified or reworded. The answer to your question as stated is that of course juries convict more in felony trials than judges, because in the vast majority of felony trials, the defendant invokes the constitutional right to a jury. I assume that you are asking whether a higher percentage of felony jury trials or of felony bench trials result in guilty verdicts. We know that there is one possible outcome of a jury trial that never happens with a bench trial, and that is a hung jury. (If a judge is not persuaded beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty, he will simply acquit on grounds of reasonable doubt. If the judge were actually to argue with himself, mental illness would be a matter for the judicial disability commission to deal with.)

      Are you asking about percentages?

      • Carolina
        06/05/2010 at 6:43 PM

        I think one can safely assume that was her Christie’s intent.

        • christy love
          06/05/2010 at 7:07 PM

          Yes, thank you Caroline. It just seems to me that a judge is going to come back with a guilty verdict more times than a jury would. On a jury of 12, you have the possibility of one nut being a hold out. Of course, there are more jury trials, but you should still be able to get some numbers. To me, if I was a defendant, a hung jury is a victory, anytime I am not sent to jail to me is a victory.

          • Carolina
            06/05/2010 at 8:25 PM

            Which is why we were all completely stunned when they went with a bench trial. Just too afraid of the make up of the jury– and I’m guessing that had a single AA juror heard the “black guy in the alley” remark, the best the defendants could hope for is a hung jury.

            • Liam
              06/08/2010 at 6:26 PM

              I actually thought it made complete sense to have this case decided by a judge and not a jury.

              First, I don’t know much about how such a decision is made.

              But, it seems to me that if you want a case decided on an unemotional basis, by a judge who sticks strictly to the proven facts and the law, then you go with the bench trial.

              It seems, if you want a case decided based on emotion by a jury that is not familiar with the law and not very good at deciding which facts are important, go with a jury.

              In this case, I believe that (1) a jury’s emotion would favor Robert Wone, and (2) the proven facts are not sufficient to support proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. So, given the defendants don’t want emotion to come into play in the decision, it seems the bench trial is the way to go.

              I know that it’s the year 2010, but it’s possible (or probable) that a jury of the trouples peers selected in DC (1) may not include any (or would include few) gay or lesbian members, and (2) there is a distinct probability that members of the jury will be emotionally biased toward Mr. Wone, who led a more conventional lifestyle. I think it would be difficult to select a sympathetic jury.

              Contrast OJ. There was so much more there to appeal to emotion of the jury. A charismatic star athlete (with no priors); the corrupt LA PD; the racist LA PD; the ability to select a sympathetic jury that was tired of seeing a black man getting dissed by the judicial system.

              This is not the OJ case.

              • ksb3064
                06/09/2010 at 5:01 PM

                I’ve served on two jury trials in DC and there would have been several gay people on it, if my experience is typical. And, speaking as a gay man, I don’t think having a jury full of gays would have necessarily helped the trouple.

                Both my trials ended in a hung jury. One was a murder trial where there were eyewitness accounts and the physical evidence backed up the eyewitness accounts. Still, a hung jury. Basically, many people in DC just don’t trust the MPD. Given the mistakes made by the MPD in this case I’m baffled why they didn’t go with the jury trial. It would only take one juror to get them off.

  5. tori reads
    06/05/2010 at 6:43 PM

    there would have been fingerprints (or a thumbprint) on the gate if an intruder used it to exit. Joe knew the only fingerprints on the gate latch would be their own. It was his mistake to volunteer his idea of how the intruder left.

    • Carolina
      06/05/2010 at 8:28 PM

      Not if the used gloves, but I doubt they did. I would love to know if it had been wiped clean, leaving not even a single recognizable print.

      • Bill Orange
        06/05/2010 at 8:32 PM

        Unfortunately, the police investigation was so bad that the defense can convincingly argue that they either never checked for prints, or they were too incompetent to find any.

        • Carolina
          06/06/2010 at 1:33 PM

          They may argue it, but if the police did check for prints, it won’t do they much good.

  6. susan
    06/05/2010 at 8:18 PM

    “Dylan and I were both in shock, our eyes as big as saucers,” said Zaborsky.

    How did he know how his own eyes looked? Did he stop to check in a mirror? Rehearse it beforehand?

    911 Tape:

    Operator: Who is the person who stabbed him?
    VZ: I don’t know, we think it’s someone who was an intruder in the house…

    “We think…”? Sounds like, in fact, they did get together to discuss this before the police got there. And apparently before calling 911.

    • Carolina
      06/05/2010 at 8:27 PM

      As much as I think these guys are probably guilty, I would not hang a man on what he said during a 911 call. I don’t think I could spell my own name.

      • Bill Orange
        06/05/2010 at 8:30 PM

        I agree. And in Victor’s “defense”, I really doubt that he’s used the phrase “I think” in the past eight years.

      • Eagle
        06/05/2010 at 8:35 PM

        I have not made up my mind about who is guilty/not guilty.
        I must agree with Carolina that 911 calls are highly charged with many things often going thru the caller’s mind. That is why the 911 responders are usually telling the caller to remain calm and ask for very basic information that ordinarily would be clearly stated. 911 also gives direct advice to the caller.
        Sure, a lot can be made of the call but one also has to take in the totality of the scenario which is emotionally charged and urgent. Who knows whether Victor was
        coached what to say because he did not then know the complete facts and the coach was filling him in..
        Even in CPR classes, the CPR giver is told to clearly direct another to “CALL 911. Now.” These 911 calls are unique circumstances.

        • Bill Orange
          06/05/2010 at 8:36 PM

          I give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the content of the 911 call, but not the timing of it.

          • NYer
            06/06/2010 at 12:21 AM

            Bill O – I agree with your comment about the timing of the call, but not the content, which I think is highly questionable- the call seems inconsistent and contrived.
            In parts VZ seems to be throwing in that calculated “I’m-afraid-to-go-downstairs” line, when clearly he is not afraid- otherwise he would be screaming to get the police over there ASAP.

            • AnnaZed
              06/06/2010 at 12:36 AM

              Something very deep in Victor knew that that last thing he wanted was a policeman on his doorstep.

              • NYer
                06/06/2010 at 12:48 AM

                Well put Anna- and as such, I think a bogus 911 call would become harder and harder to fake and pull off, the more info and detail that the caller adds/ volunteers – as VZ did here.

      • ladyg
        06/05/2010 at 9:26 PM

        carolina, i remember awhile back, you (if not you, i apologize) said that robert, may have been killed shortly after his arrival (mentioning the drinking of water). the more i read the transripts, i too am leaning that way. there’s something in joe’s statement
        that has a bad vibe to it. if we take what he said and connect it with what he decribes (the stabbing motion) to kathy, lies (the truth) whole story. i hope theFBI (somewhat of a high profile case), has to have a “PROFILER” working on this. don’t they say that the killer (clever ones), will give you clues? they (the bad guys) just want the cops to “catch them if they can “.

        • Carolina
          06/06/2010 at 1:38 PM

          It may have been me, or a host of other like minded individuals here. I think Robert had just about enough time to have a drink of water and shortly thereafter was dispatched.

      • Kate
        06/06/2010 at 9:11 AM

        Morning All – I also think that the content of Victor’s 911 call was the truth – as he knew it at that moment. He uses the word “intruder” because Joe used that word, probably after Victor became hysterical. At that point, Joe grabs Victor’s shoulders, shakes him and says something along the lines of, “Get a grip Vic, an intruder has stabbed Robert, go upstairs and call 911!”

        After listening to the tape several times, it seems to me that Victor was genuinely frightened that the intruder might still be in the house. He watches from the window for the EMTs and only goes downstairs when the 911 tech tells him to go down and let them in. From the sound of the pitter-patter of V’s footsteps, he was moving pretty fast to get down those steps, open the door and get out on the front stoop as quickly as possible. And he stays on the stoop for quite some time afterwards.

        All that being said, I’m having a difficult time with Victor’s initial testimony at the VCB in which he states that Joe was with him when they first heard the “low
        screams/grunts” and went to investigate. Frankly, I would think this was also true, if all of the other puzzle pieces of evidence (or lack thereof) fit.

        But, they don’t fit, do they?

        • NYer
          06/06/2010 at 9:56 AM

          Kate- I just listened to the tape again myself. At the outset, I have to say the delay in placing the call renders at least some of VZ’s statements in that call questionable by default. But aside from this, my reaction after hearing the call again is still the same- if VZ truly was in fear of the possibility there might have been an “intruder” downstairs, he would immediately request police- and he is given that opportunity by the dispacher in the first second of the call. (“Fire, medical or police assisstance?”) Yet, when asked if said intruder is in the home, VZ later states “I don’t know.” I think most people, if they truly believed that someone who stabbed a friend of theirs was within a mile of their home, they’d make more of an effort to request police assistance than VZ.

          I do think portions of VZ’s tears are genuine, but I think this is a result of his shock/horror of what happened in his home in the past 19 minutes. But listen closely to WHEN these emotions come to the surface…very inconsistent. He seems unusually calm and collected in some moments, as if making a hotel reservation or something.

          In it’s totality, the call itself just seems amiss.

          • Kate
            06/06/2010 at 10:33 AM

            Excellent points, NYer – that time delay in making the call is one of the BIG puzzle pieces that simply don’t fit.

            The only way there wasn’t a delay, is if the next door neighbor was wrong about the time he heard the scream – and I think he was very certain of that in his court testimony.

            Perhaps I’ve become a closet Victor apologist who came out for a moment?

            Sigh. But I certainly agree, the time of the call just doesn’t fit …

            • Pshep
              06/06/2010 at 11:45 AM

              I just listened to VZ’s 911 call for the first time and think it’s totally staged. I can just see him in the room with Price trying to listen to the 911 operator and take direction from Price at the same time. Especially during the part where the operator is trying to clarify what VZ is saying about the knife. VZ seems very distracted at that point as if someone (Price) is giving him directions what to say.

              Maybe this was covered elsewhere, but during the call VZ says that they heard Robert’s scream, not the 2-3 low groans that I see referenced all over this site. I have not read the police interviews yet, so maybe he tries to clarify this, but if Robert were the one that screamed, seems like there should definitely be defensive wounds, etc…

        • Carolina
          06/06/2010 at 1:41 PM

          Wait, doesn’t he say he took towels down to Joe?

    • lawmed
      06/06/2010 at 4:13 AM

      Say you discovered a member of your household or a guest murdered in your home, and of course YOU were innocent, and the other two people in your household you also believed were innocent family members. it would see “We think” is a very natural phrase absent any group family meeting on what everyone else thought.

    • Bill
      06/06/2010 at 2:01 PM

      It think what is lost by so many if not the majority of the posts is that the defendants are PRESUMED INNOCENT until found guilty. While I am certain well intended, so many posters just ASSUME that the three are guilty. That’s why there are legal procedures and rules of evidence and now a judge who will sort this out. While the editors has done extraordinary work, I am wondering if this type of blog can lend itself to a “high tech” lynch mob.

      • Bill Orange
        06/06/2010 at 2:34 PM

        I don’t think that’s the case at all. A man was found stabbed to death in the home of three prominent men who were all activists in the local gay community. The police almost immediately concluded that the three defendants were involved. The three defendants claimed that the police were biased against them because they’re gay.

        A large number of people who post on this blog are either gay or very supportive of gay rights, and I think many of us were drawn to this case initially because we believed that the police really did wrongly accuse the defendants. But as we started reading through all of the evidence, it became more and more clear that, while the police probably ARE biased against gays, there’s a substantial (I would say overwhelming) amount of evidence that the defendants are, in fact, guilty of the charges. In other words, the defendants WERE presumed innocent by most of us when we started reading, but we have now CONCLUDED (not ASSUMED) that they are guilty.

        As for this being a “high tech” lynch mob, I really don’t see that as the case. I don’t recall seeing ANY threats toward the defendants, either overt or implied, that would suggest that anyone should cause them any sort of violence, with the possible exception of the usual “They’ll get theirs in prison”-type comments (which, by the way, I think are deplorable). The advocacy on here is almost always restricted to the hope that either the government or Kathy Wone will win a verdict against the defendants in a court of law. That is, in fact, the exact opposite of a lynch mob.

        • Pshep
          06/06/2010 at 2:47 PM

          I couldn’t agree more. Also, there is an innocent until proven guilty presumption in our justice system, as there should be. The defendants are currently enjoying this presumption instead of being in a jail cell. They have yet to even begin to present their case.

          That being said, we are free to make up our own minds. I do not need the DC Court to tell me that these 3 are guilty, just as I do not need the CA jury to tell me that OJ murdered Ron & Nicole. There is a huge difference between legally guilty of a crime and actually committing a crime.

          I hope these 3 are convicted. But even if they are not convicted, In my opinion I have seen enough evidence for me to pass my judgment. Occam’s razor.

      • Hoya Loya
        06/06/2010 at 2:54 PM

        The defendants are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law — outside the court of law, people are free to speculate. But people should, as I keep reminding everyone, refrain from ad hominem attacks and baseless accusations. Speculation should be specified as such and should be based on the facts at hand.

        There are several posters who, after reviewing the facts, have formed strong opinions about the defendants and are sticking with them. More of us, however, are trying to keep a more open mind. I think we have been pretty fair overall, particularly since trial started, some of the material in the Ward affidavit has not panned out and the dedense has started to make some points.

        I’d be glad to get a confession from an intruder in prison somewhere.

  7. cc
    06/05/2010 at 8:41 PM

    When Wone was found what exactly was he wearing? Also did the police test his underwear for semen. If he did ejaculate there would be semen stains on his underwear if they were on. If he was naked they could do tests to see if he had just ejaculated by checking his penis. Also did they do tests to see if he was penetrated through his anus? There has been all this talk of sexual assault so i am looking for the facts. Has there been photos of wone when they first found him? If there was anal penetration there would evidence if they did there jobs properly. I feel the police were not as thorough as they shoul have been.

    • Bill 2
      06/05/2010 at 10:36 PM

      I believe they found no semen in his underwear. Would that even enter into this trial? These men are not being tried for sexual assault nor murder. Why would you expect police to bring out those things now? If, at a later date, there’s a trial for murder or sexual assault, that info would be important to that trial.

  8. Bill Orange
    06/05/2010 at 10:29 PM

    “When Wone was found what exactly was he wearing?”

    A T-shirt, gym shorts, and underwear.

    “Also did the police test his underwear for semen.”

    We don’t know one way or the other.

    “Also did they do tests to see if he was penetrated through his anus?”

    There was no evidence of trauma to the perianal region, but this does not prove that he was not assaulted.

    “Has there been photos of wone when they first found him?”

    No. The greater goal was to get him to the hospital as quickly as possible, not to document the crime scene.

    • cc
      06/05/2010 at 11:36 PM

      Were there puncture holes through his shirt? Was there a lot of blood on the shirt? If these 2 answers are no than even a monkey could realize there has been some serious tampering. It is a shame that not one these three guys has turned states witness. I believe victor was the only innocent one that night until right after the murder. He has now ruined hisn life because of his coercion with 2 psychopaths in ward and price. The judge will have to give each of them the same sentence for lying and tampering with a crime scene when it should be a life sentence for ward.

      • mia
        06/06/2010 at 1:49 AM

        I’m not an expert, but I doubt if you could tell if there’s a needle puncture hole by examing your knitted Tshirt.
        From what I’ve learned here, the front of the Tshirt only has very few blood on it but the back was pretty much all socked up with blood (but the sheet was amazingly clean except for two spots).

  9. Rich Moonblatt
    06/05/2010 at 11:41 PM

    Exceptional Coverage.

    Thank you editors.

  10. susan
    06/06/2010 at 12:33 AM

    I think this is really useful:

    Interesting to note that the first room any “intruder” would come upon would be D. Ward’s not R. Wone’s, but

  11. mia
    06/06/2010 at 2:14 AM

    Wonder anyone know when did the trople were taken to VCB on Aug 3? I mean, how long after Victor called 911 the police came in and took them?

  12. christy love
    06/06/2010 at 11:30 AM

    I don’t know where to post this so I am posting it here. I went back and read Joe’s third degree and searched it for his “likes”. I know it could be a speech pattern, but humor me. I started to notice how he was saying things are “like” something. If I say something is like something, it is not that something, but like it. Does that make sense? So basically, every time he says it was “like” that, I think he is lying, I think where he says “like” and “you know” in the same sentence, I think he is REALLY lying, or doesn’t even believe it himself and is trying to convince himself and the cops.

    I went down, we stood around the kitchen sink. We had, like, a glass of water, you know.

    Then I ended up, after all that, back upstairs to see, like, the last five minutes.

    it wasn’t people yelling words, it was like uhh, something like that.

    I was turned to Victor and grabbed him by the shoulders and, like, was shaking him.

    He didn’t, like, look at me or focus or anything, but — and that was the only time he ever made any noise while he was there, you know, and I just held the towel on him and, you know, Victor talked to 911. (did Robert look at him and focus?)

    Dylan came out of his room and he looked like he was putting on his robe. It looked like he had no fucking clothes.

    He came out. You know, he didn’t look concerned. He was just sort of like, “Hey, ‘what’ s going on?”

    I’m sure I said something to him like what the fuck happened, what’s going on, you know — you know,

    I could see there was a lot more blood on the bed in, like, two spots. It kind of went under him.

    I think Dylan was saying to Victor or one of the cops, he was saying, like, The back door’s open

    Not only was it unlocked, but the door was like, you know, just not flush with the frame.

    The steaks were all, like, fried, you know, basically salvaged a dinner.

    You know, I normally go out and put, like, the grill cover back on, but I don’t even know if we did that.

    Robert is like •– he was straight, true blue.

    The covers looked like someone had pulled them back, like, as if they were sitting up, you know, like somebody come in the room and you’re • surprised or something .

    I remember, like, the blanket looked like, you know, as if you were laying in the bed and you were getting out of bed, you would, you know, grab the corner and pull it over you. It was laying there neatly. It wasn’t like tousled or pushed off or anything like that.

    I went upstairs, saw the last five minutes of the show, and then started watching the first 10 minutes of like some other thing on Spike TV.

    I wasn’t worried like oh she’s going to come find Robert (indiscernible) just come in and go downstairs.

    And I hear what is — you know, it was yelling but it wasn’t — it was just like grunts or something.

    I think, or somewhere across his body, and there was a knife. I believe it was on laying on him on — like on his stomach or something like that.

    Robert was like the, you know, best, you know, absolutely straight A, you know, no nonsense guy I ever met.

    there’s a light in one of the tree boxes. They’re (indiscernible) and I could see something like crawling around on top of it.

    No, because, you know, we’re yelling like we need an ambulance, we need an ambulance and, you know.

    • Bob
      06/06/2010 at 11:35 AM

      You are parsing his interrogation like a computer, assuming that words really mean what they appear to mean. Some people use the word ‘like’ as a particle that has no meaning. I don’t think that there can be any inference from his language as to whether he is telling the truth in spite of the particle or whether he is lying. I am willing to rely on the judge to determine the truth.

      • AnnaZed
        06/06/2010 at 11:40 AM

        For the most part I would agree with you, but I think it has been established elsewhere (by his professional credentials if nothing else) that Joe does not typically stammer and pepper his locutions with valleygirl-style “like” and “you know” particles. I think it mostly indicates that he was high.

        • Bill Orange
          06/06/2010 at 12:40 PM

          I agree. I think that one possibility of the “Catch-22” e-mail is that, even if Joe had nothing to do with the murder (which I think is unlikely), he was doing SOMETHING that night that was highly illegal, but not as bad as stabbing someone to death in your guest bedroom. If this is indeed the case, they’re all STILL guilty of the charges, and their actions have virtually ensured that a murderer is going to go free, so I have very little sympathy for them.

          • christy love
            06/06/2010 at 1:06 PM

            Of course, I am doing that Bob, just like the police do. Look at this guys site.

            I’m just throwing it out there as food for thought. Also, look at what I posted, most of those things we already think are big lies anyway. The gate for example and someone suggested recently the two blood spots could have been planted. Of course, there are “like” two blood spots after you planted them there.

            I was lying last night to this guy I owe money to, and man, I noticed how many words and filler words I threw in there that I normally never use when I got NERVOUS.

            OT: A friend just called to go to breakfast, I asked how much money she had (she was worried she couldn’t afford the place I chose), she said “like $25” I said ‘do you have $25 or is it like $25?’ She said “I can’t remember, it’s somewhere between $19 and $25. That’s why I said like.” Try this out on people who say something is like something. At the very least, it means they aren’t sure.

            • ramknts
              06/06/2010 at 3:10 PM

              I think the language analysis is really useful and interesting. Thanks for your input!

              • christy love
                06/07/2010 at 1:09 AM

                Your welcome!

  13. NYer
    06/08/2010 at 4:53 PM

    Is Themis on vacation? I was curious as to her general take on the proceedings thus far…

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