Art For Art’s Sake…

And Justice for God’s Sake.

Our continued thanks goes out to courtroom artist William J. Hennessy, Jr. for allowing us to republish his works, and to the local TV stations for the many screen grabs we’ve pulled. 

 

After the jump, more of Mr. Hennessy’s work along with some some rarely seen crime scene photos, courtesy of WJLA-TV, the broadcast home of Maureen Bunyan, who figures prominently in this trial, and Steve Tschida, the station’s reporter covering it.

 

  

Left to Right: Schertler & Onorato associate Veronica Jennings, defendants Joe Price, Dylan Ward and Victor Zaborsky

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

Joe Price counsel Bernie Grimm, wearing latex gloves while holding Robert's blood stained t-shirt

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

Left to Right: Bernie Grimm, Joe Price, David Schertler, Tom Conolly

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

Left to Right: Douglas Deedrick, Judge Lynn Leibovitz and AUSA Rachel Lieber

Left to Right: Ward counsel David Schertler, Douglas Deedrick and Judge Leibovitz

Crime scene knife found on the guestroom night stand

The 1509 Swann Street parking and patio area as seen from the alley

Crime scene knife seen on the guestoom night stand

The guestroom sofabed Robert Wone was found on

261 comments for “Art For Art’s Sake…

  1. Bill Orange
    05/30/2010 at 3:13 PM

    THAT’s the bed where someone was supposed to have been stabbed through the aortic root?

    • Craig
      05/30/2010 at 4:16 PM

      Bill O: Yessir. Hard to wrap your arms around I know, at least anyplace where gravity is an issue.

      CD & KKCA: The blood was nearly soaked through the shirt but from our seats it was hard to tell its front from back. I could never see the W&M logo when it was waved around.

      • Bill Orange
        05/30/2010 at 4:48 PM

        Keep in mind that the shirt was cut up the middle, so the “front” is now the edges of the cloth, and the “back” is now the middle.

      • Bill Orange
        05/30/2010 at 4:58 PM

        Wow. I guess this is technically possible, but the defense’s experts obviously have their work cut out for them. I can see why they’re going to argue cardiac tamponade now. The heart would have to stop beating almost immediately for a blood pattern like this. I still can’t figure out how you an argue for a cardiac tamponade when there’s a huge stab wound in the pericardial sac. Any trauma or cardiac surgeons here? What do you think of this?

        • WhatACase
          05/30/2010 at 5:30 PM

          I think I read in the autopsy that there were some needlemarks on Robert’s chest, which were not claimed by the EMTs or the emergency room staff. Is it possible that the stab wounds were intended to cover up some larger needlemarks, or some other marks that occurred prior to the stabbing??

          • Bill Orange
            05/30/2010 at 5:37 PM

            Unlikely. I think the puncture marks on the chest probably were made by attempts at pericardiocentesis (i.e., trying to draw off any fluid around the heart), but the eds would know for sure.

            The stab marks were all quite forceful, and it would be hard to accurately hit whatever you were trying to cover up if you’re using that much force.

            • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
              05/30/2010 at 7:13 PM

              The autopsy report details in a drawing exactly where any marks are on Robert’s body and where they came from. The suspecision needle marks are represented, as well as the marks made by emergency personnel.

        • Just Curious
          06/01/2010 at 12:20 PM

          Could it be possible that Robert was dead prior to the stab wounds? The heart is not pumping to cause excessive bleeding externally; leading you to believe cardiac tamponade.

          The stab wounds were inflicted to draw attention away from the true cause of death; possible injection gone wrong????

  2. demitasso
    05/30/2010 at 4:03 PM

    THAT’s the back fence over which no one could have climbed?

    • Carolina
      05/30/2010 at 4:11 PM

      Please stop misstating the argument. Sure, someone could climb it, but they’d need a boost, and chances of clearing it without disturbing the debris atop it are slim to none.

      As for the argument that the “intruder” would be able to see if the door were unlocked just by looking, please tell me in what world a door indicates its locked status on the exterior?

      • Demitasso
        05/30/2010 at 5:26 PM

        Could the intruder(s) have told that the door was ajar? By looking through the fence?

        You take everything way too seriously, btw. Ever heard of valium?

        • KKinCA
          05/30/2010 at 5:41 PM

          “Could the intruder(s) have told that the door was ajar? By looking through the fence?” That concept was discussed and debated ad nauseum (with the emphasis on “nauseum”!) by your brethren tassojunior earlier this week, or maybe even last week. Please, I beg of you, don’t raise this issue again, at least until you review all the comments on it and have a theory that is supported by the facts that are known, and reasonable inferences therefrom.

        • Carolina
          05/30/2010 at 6:26 PM

          I’d be happy to share your valium when you find it, hammy.

        • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
          05/30/2010 at 7:15 PM

          What do you think, Demiasso.

          • KKinCA
            05/30/2010 at 7:54 PM

            CD – Demitasso must be tassojunior’s brother. They certainly follow the same patterns. Tough question = disappearing act. Or maybe he is studying all of the arguments posted by his brother when he made his visits over to the alley behind 1509 Swann. Gathering ammunition. We shall see!

    • Bill Orange
      05/30/2010 at 4:38 PM

      I don’t think that anyone’s seriously arguing that the back patio was an impenetrable fortress.

      I’ll readily concede that a reasonably athletic person could’ve gotten over the fence, found that the back door was unlocked, entered the kitchen, ignored the alarm that would’ve alerted the residents to his presence, grabbed a knife, walked past the valuable flat-screen television and easily-stealable laptop, gone up the stairs, walked past the first bedroom, entered the guest bedroom, stabbed Wone repeatedly and without motive, and then fled the house without being seen.

      But I don’t see how he could have done it without any signs of movement from the victim; or any defensive wounds; or any blood spatter on the walls, floor or ceiling; or any significant blood loss from the victim.

      • Craig
        05/30/2010 at 4:44 PM

        Bill O: You forgot vaulting over the fence a second time, while leaving no marks on the fence, especially scuff marks on either side. That’s not athleticism you describe. The front door was deadbolt locked, keyed on both sides.

        Mano: There is no accepted narrative, there are only opinions and observations. Many of those are based on reasoning, instinct and the facts as we know them, while others seem to be either misinformed or misleading.

        • Bill Orange
          05/30/2010 at 4:49 PM

          He could’ve gone out the front door on his way out.

          • KKinCA
            05/30/2010 at 4:56 PM

            What about the chime (or lack thereof)?

            • Bill Orange
              05/30/2010 at 5:00 PM

              Victor said he heard one. Joe said he didn’t. I’ll give them a pass on that one. According to the story, they’d just found someone stabbed to death in their guest bedroom. I don’t expect them to remembers the details 100% accurately.

              • KKinCA
                05/30/2010 at 5:07 PM

                I thought Joe heard the chime, stayed in bed kind of half awake, and then heard the “moans” that got him out of bed. So the chime would be the intruder’s entry. I don’t recall a second chime.
                But based on Craig’s comment above, the front door is ruled out as an escape route, unless the intruder had the key. Hmmmm – Michael?

                • Clio
                  05/30/2010 at 5:23 PM

                  Michael probably did not have either the athletic ability or magical powers to do it from the back, but he could have came in from the front (to take away the really incriminating stuff) — just like during the “burglary”, perhaps?

                  • KKinCA
                    05/30/2010 at 5:34 PM

                    Perhaps. And the trouple pointed the police in the direction of the intruder entering/exiting through the back door to lead investigators away from any fingerprints or other physical evidence left by Michael? Clio – you may be on to something!

                  • AnnaZed
                    05/30/2010 at 6:52 PM

                    Michael had keys to all of the doors and gates, front and back (and the alarm codes if needed). He could come in or go whatever way he chose without climbing a fence.

                    • Clio
                      05/30/2010 at 7:08 PM

                      How convenient and versatile!

                      He could be the trouple’s back door and front door man.

                    • Carolina
                      05/31/2010 at 8:00 PM

                      The chime wouldn’t scare Michael. He would already know it would go off and they’d assume it was Sarah.

                • WhatACase
                  05/30/2010 at 5:35 PM

                  KK — joe heard the chimes announcing the “intruder”‘s entrance, but victor didn’t hear that; victor heard the chimes following the scream, as they ran down the stairs and found robert–joe didn’t hear that set of chimes.

                  • KKinCA
                    05/30/2010 at 5:44 PM

                    WAC – Thanks a lot! It’s been awhile since I reviewed the interview transcripts – sounds like I need to refresh my memory. I appreciate your correction of my statement.

          • Carolina
            05/30/2010 at 6:27 PM

            Not unless the owners left the key in it. Double dead bolt.

            • KKinCA
              05/30/2010 at 7:35 PM

              Did you see AnnaZed’s 6:52pm post above about the keys that Michael had? I assume his keys could close the double dead bolt from the outside.

        • Manopener
          05/30/2010 at 8:03 PM

          That is true in your case Bill but there are those who refuse to look beyond an accepted narrative. There is also editing done to support that narrative.

          There is much confusion around the use of the term “homphobia” on this site when often what is being alluded to or cited is simple “bigotry”, such as references to the MPD.

          I think to some extent homophobia drives this insistence on the wearing of blinders. Homophobia is evident of the sort felt by women terrified by the thought that what happened to Kathy Wone could happen to them. I have repeatedly been attacked as “blaming the victim” for the suggestion that Robert Wone’s “straightness” not be taken at face value. Is that not an inherently homophobic point of view?

          I also think there is evidence of the internalized sort exhibited by subconsciously self loathing gay men. To infer that Robert Wone may have had experiences outside a provincial puritanical “norm” is not to infer that he was “bad” except from a homophobic frame of reference.

          There is an awful lot of moral judgment going on here. Many of those who are the worst offenders are so lacking in self awareness that they won’t see it and instead go on the attack. Instinct and reason are subjective after all.

          Somehow Robert Wone ended up dead that night with four stab wounds in his chest. I have seen nothing to support the notion that some obscure, unknown intruder had either motive or opportunity. The residents of the house have a not very credible story predicated by a flawed premise. That is all I know for sure.

          • KKinCA
            05/30/2010 at 8:11 PM

            It was 3 stab wounds. You may want to do a little more research. And if you think the readers/posters on this website are homophobic, you obviously have not read many of the posts. I suggest you take the time to read all of the posts and the official documents (particularly the police interview transcripts) before you start making [false] blanket statements about the readers. I know that 18 months of posts and comments and documents are a lot to read, but I think it would hopefully elevate the credibility of your comments on this site if you truly want to engage other readers in discussions on any topic related to this case.

            • Clio
              05/30/2010 at 8:36 PM

              Robert Wone’s straightness has not been taken at face value by either the police or our fellow citizen-pundits. It has been discussed and rehashed many times, only to find out that he was conventionally and happily married. Harry Jaffe, no friend of the government’s positions, best captured the vitality and intimacy of the Wone marriage.

              Moral judgments about this case should be especially made by Culuket’s own people: we are moral citizens, too! It is not homophobic to find justice for a straight man who may have been murdered by a gay “leader” — who had been his friend. It is not an expression of self-hate to brainstorm about possible scenarios involving the three gay defendants and their circle. And, the best way to combat internalized homophobia is have these issues openly and publicly discussed in an accessible format such as this — thank you, Editors, once again. XO, Clio.

          • Bill 2
            05/30/2010 at 8:49 PM

            I’ve noted that when a gay man feels he’s losing an argument to another gay man, he’ll pull out the “self loathing” accusation, Manopener. I believe Tasso played a similar card just the other day. It’s similar to playing the “Hitler” card. That accusation always makes the accuser think he’s won some points.

            • deepsouth
              05/30/2010 at 9:29 PM

              Gaydwin’s Law!

          • Bill Orange
            05/30/2010 at 10:46 PM

            I don’t really agree with you here. I think that a lot of people come to this site because they are either gay or gay-friendly, and they expect to find a story about three gay men, all fairly big players in the gay rights movement, who were framed by the police for a crime they didn’t commit.

            Then they start to look at the evidence, and they conclude that regardless of how much homophobia there is on the part of the police force, these three men are STILL not being honest about what happened that night.

          • Carolina
            05/31/2010 at 10:18 AM

            You realize what a goodly portion of the responders here are gay or lesbian, don’t you? Not a lot of fraus worrying about their dh getting their gay on.

        • Bob
          05/30/2010 at 8:42 PM

          Who is Mano? I don’t see his post.

          • KKinCA
            05/30/2010 at 11:53 PM

            Bob – Manopener (aka “Mano”) has posted at least 2 comments (probably more) accusing readers of following an “accepted narrative.” One of the posts is above at 8:03pm. I have started just to ignore him, as often he disappears when other readers question him and his theories, allegations, and his persistent playing of the homophobia card.

            • Manopener
              05/31/2010 at 9:43 AM

              KKinCA, you are delusional, “persistent” playing of the homphobia card, indeed! I am going to disappear though not because I feel threatened by being disagreed with. I am bored and this is not an open forum, nor is it, in fact, a vehicle to seeking justice for Robert Wone. This is mostly an excuse to wallow in the lurid.

              I take note in leaving of the fact that since the article in The Post the universe of comment on this site has expanded very little. With the rarest exception it has expanded not at all beyond the core group of, shall we say, “accepted narrative believers”.

              It does vindicate a couple of life lesson for me, however. God spare me from second rate lawyers!

              • cinnamon
                05/31/2010 at 9:58 AM

                In spending several months on this site, I find that when the facts and evidence are reviewed, scutinized, pondered over and puzzled together a narative develops of what may have occured that night. Many people on this site have come to believe some version of that narrative because it is the one that makes the most since in light of the evidence.

              • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
                05/31/2010 at 10:46 AM

                Buh bye!

              • KKinCA
                05/31/2010 at 11:07 AM

                Vindication my a**!! To quote CD, “Buh bye”!

                • Clio
                  05/31/2010 at 4:06 PM

                  “Buh bye” times three — here are a bouquet or trouple of “buh byes”, Man!

                  This site is anything but boring, and it takes pains not “to wallow in the lurid.” For example, see Sean’s post of today, Man, if you’re out still there lurking.

        • Hank Rearden
          05/30/2010 at 9:22 PM

          Craig – How do you know the front door is dead bolted and keyed on both sides? I remember seeing the door with a thumb turn on the inside. Additionally, I also remember seeing the back swinging gate/door having that same condition – thumb turn on the inside. The rear gate in that condition makes it easy for anyone to jump the fence even if the gate is locked and simply let themselves out without a key.

          • Craig
            05/30/2010 at 11:37 PM

            Hank: Love the nick. Rear patio door had a thumb latch, the patio gate was definitely keyed both sides and I’m nearly certain the front door was too.

            And I never knew a knife was not to be removed as part of first aid, but I think an Eagle Scout should’ve known. Ahem.

            The t-shirt is curious. We’ll maybe kick that around next week.

            • Bill Orange
              05/30/2010 at 11:52 PM

              I don’t think that “don’t pull the knife out” was really common knowledge at the time. I think that really became a pop culture teaching point a month later, when Steve Irwin died after pulling a stingray barb out of his chest. (Related rule: Don’t pester the stingray.)

              • Carolina
                05/31/2010 at 10:22 AM

                I don’t agree. I was taught that *mumblemumble* odd years ago, long before Bindi Irwin was a gleam in her daddy’s eye.

                • Bill Orange
                  05/31/2010 at 10:52 AM

                  I don’t think it really sank in as “conventional wisdom” until Irwin died. I seem to remember a number of people back in 2006 who were astonished to learn that you weren’t supposed to pull things out of a trauma victim.

            • KKinCA
              05/30/2010 at 11:55 PM

              If the front door was keyed on both sides, brother Michael could have come in and out, and disabled the alarm. No wonder Joe “forgot” to tell the police that Michael had a key to the house!

      • Kathleen
        05/30/2010 at 10:03 PM

        Why do people assume that burglars want large items or things to sell? Many just want money or credit cards or small items they can easily carry without notice. Perhaps I know too many burglars.

        How do we know there was no motivation for the stabbing? Maybe Wone started to stir and scared the intruder – burglars have made stupid and irrational choices before and people have ended up wounded or killed in the process. I realize it doesn’t answer all questions but it certainly is within the realm of possibility.

        I’m also not sure why people expect a quick strike of 3 knife thrusts to elicit some huge movement. Wone could have still been disoriented from sleep when it happened and the strikes could have stunned him and the loss of blood kept him disoriented until he lost consciousness. Not everyone reacts the same to being awakened in the dark or attacked. Some people are paralyzed with fear.

        The wounds didn’t produce blood splatters on the ceiling or walls most likely because of how they were administered. Probably close to the body without moving the hand very far from the body perhaps with the attacker bent over the victim absorbing any blood. One doesn’t assume the manner of attack first – one looks at the scene first.

        Or not.

        • Lyn
          05/30/2010 at 10:40 PM

          “and the loss of blood kept him disoriented”

          According to defense counsel, we are expected to throw out common sense and believe that hardly little blood was let. That supposedly explains why there wasn’t much blood on the bed or towel.

          So which is it, lots of blood loss instantly disorients Wone or not much blood loss?

        • Bill Orange
          05/30/2010 at 11:05 PM

          “I’m also not sure why people expect a quick strike of 3 knife thrusts to elicit some huge movement.”

          Perhaps not “huge movement”, but certainly SOME movement. I would’ve expected to see at least some evidence of flinching, if not an all-out struggle, during the second or third stab wounds.

          “The wounds didn’t produce blood splatters on the ceiling or walls most likely because of how they were administered. Probably close to the body without moving the hand very far from the body perhaps with the attacker bent over the victim absorbing any blood.”

          Okay, let’s assume the hyperabsorbant attacker was hunched over Robert during the stabbing, and that’s why there was no blood spatter on the walls or ceiling. Wone will now be conscious for the next few seconds (I’m sorry, but there’s no way I’m going to buy a theory that has him sleeping through three stab wounds) and is either grabbing at his chest or at his attacker. Price and Zaborsky are on their way down the stairs. Yet Wone spreads no blood before he’ loses consciousness, and Price and Zaborsky don’t see or hear his attacker run down the stairs.

          “One doesn’t assume the manner of attack first – one looks at the scene first.”

          Exactly! Look at that picture! Does it look like someone was just brutally stabbed there?

          • Bob
            05/31/2010 at 11:19 AM

            In any case, where did the blood go? He was missing 4 liters of blood when the autopsy was performed, and it was not at the crime scene. Something is wrong with the random intruder story, or the Chinese ninja story, which is the missing blood.

            • Leo
              05/31/2010 at 9:50 PM

              The defense cardiac surgeons are going to argue that no blood was missing due to cardiac tamponade.

              • Carolina
                05/31/2010 at 11:54 PM

                So there’s one knife wound. What about the remaining two?

        • mia
          05/31/2010 at 1:11 AM

          What is the chance a random burglar would want to get up to 2nd floor (and ignore the first bedroom!) with a knife he grabbed from the kitchen downstairs simply went after a maybe or maybe not exist wallet?

          When it comes to the three stabs—did you realize that chest and upper abdomen are among the most well protected parts on your body? by your sternum and ribs. What is the chance that a burglar could precisely made 3 stabs that produced the defects at least 7/8″ in length in dark?

          And the blood……Let’s assume that your theory about the blood-absorbing theory is correct. Please tell us where is the blood trail then?

        • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
          05/31/2010 at 10:48 AM

          That’s all perfectly plausible, except for the fact there is NO evidence of entry or exit by the “inruder.”

    • Manopener
      05/30/2010 at 4:39 PM

      You must be new! “Misstating the argument” is code for deviating from the accepted narrative.

      • Bill Orange
        05/30/2010 at 4:48 PM

        Did you read his name? I don’t think he’s new.

      • Carolina
        05/30/2010 at 6:29 PM

        Whatever, kid. Listen, when someone says, “You said that fence could never be scaled,” and NO ONE has said that, we can pretty much go with that being an example of MISSTATING, not clinging to a single POV.

      • Bob
        05/31/2010 at 3:09 AM

        I may be ignorant. You and certain other posters refer to deviating from the accepted narrative. What is the accepted narrative? I know what the account of the defendants is, but I don’t know of one standard alternative accepted narrative. Can you please restate it?

        • KKinCA
          05/31/2010 at 11:09 AM

          Bob – Well put. And in my opinion, you are not the one who is ignorant!

    • Joyce
      05/31/2010 at 2:46 AM

      Exactly. Or could have jumped over a neighbor’s fence, then over the side fence. Could have thought to spend a split second to plan a landing on concrete that wouldn’t leave print. Could have been confident that they could pick a lock.

      This is a very strange case. We should be very hesitant to judge.

      • Carolina
        05/31/2010 at 10:28 AM

        If they did jump the side fence, then jump back into 1509’s yard, can you explain how they avoided leaving so much as a scrape or disturbing the collected dust on the top of the fence.

      • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
        05/31/2010 at 10:51 AM

        I suggest that Joyce scale a fence. A six-eight foot privacy fence. Tell us how she did it. And did she do it without touching the top of the fence.

  3. KKinCA
    05/30/2010 at 4:05 PM

    In the illustration of Bernie Grimm holding Robert’s tee-shirt, it looks like A LOT of blood is on the shirt! Is that accurate?

    • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
      05/30/2010 at 4:13 PM

      I thought I read on this site that the BACK of teh t-shirt had a lot of blood on it.

    • Kathleen
      05/30/2010 at 10:05 PM

      It’s a drawing. A drawing of the shirt 4 years after the event.

      • KKinCA
        05/31/2010 at 1:23 AM

        Kathleen – I understand that it’s a drawing, as I referred to it in my comment as an “illustration.” And yes I am aware the shirt is 4 years old. I guess I don’t understand your point. Not trying to be difficult, but can you please clarify? Thanks.

        • Carolina
          05/31/2010 at 11:57 PM

          I am curious if anyone else notices a pattern of new posters making these kinds of posts, then never replying when asked follow up questions?

          • KKinCA
            06/01/2010 at 3:03 AM

            Yes, I have noticed that phenomenon – all the various tasso incarnations, manopener, etc. Is that unusual? I have a little over 2 weeks “experience” on this site, a very short time considering this site has been up for 18 months. But in any case, it is very annoying.

          • ML
            06/01/2010 at 5:11 AM

            Is it possible that these new posters either a) have a life or b) find your comments unnecessarily hostile and wonder why you’ve put yourself in charge of directing all newcomers to the site on the proper etiquette for posing questions?

            Do you believe some people could be interested in this case and the trial, without having hours and hours to devote to mastering every fact so far known?

            • cinnamon
              06/01/2010 at 9:41 AM

              I understand that many people do not have the time to devote to reading everything about his case. It is quite complicated and requires a good deal of reading and thought. If new posters do not have the time to devote to become educated about the case, they probably should refrain from making broad claims and assertions of which they are ill informed. That’s all.

              • KKinCA
                06/01/2010 at 9:51 AM

                Cinnamon – Very well put.
                ML – Many of the posters are professionals – doctors, attorneys, etc. And many refer to children, pets, etc. We do have lives, but are able to multi-task effectively. There is no “proper etiquette” for posing questions. Sometimes posters (new and long-term) come up with new theories or scenarios, which trigger new and interesting discussions. However, theories and scenarios that conflict with the known evidence, and/or are based on broad assumptions (i.e., homophobia) are challenged by posters who have a firm grip of the facts (again, as known).
                Welcome ML – I look forward to your comments.

  4. CDinDC (Boycott BP)
    05/30/2010 at 4:17 PM

    It’s so hard for me to believe that robert was wearing that t-shirt when he was stabbed. The front and side of that t-shirt would or should have had an equal amount of blood on it, considering the blood would have had to drain down his side to get to the bed.

    Not only does it seem that the knife was a plant, but it seems to me the blood was “planted” as well. Perhaps dabbed on the bed (as well as the knife.)

    • KKinCA
      05/30/2010 at 5:03 PM

      CDwhohatesBP – Does your theory include the planting of blood on the shirt as well? Also, I recall that one of the EMTs testified that the shirt was kind of dry, or at least did not contain a lot of “wet” blood (I don’t know the correct terminology). But that may have been in reference to the towel. Can you expand more on this new theory? Like did the stabbing occur in the bathroom and the “planted “blood was taken from the shower? Inquiring minds want to know!

      • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
        05/30/2010 at 7:29 PM

        KKinCA, I’ve always thought that Robert was stabbed elsewhere (most likely the bathroom to contain the blood). I based that on the fact that the stab wounds are sharp edge up and horizontal to Robert’s body. If someone approached the bed from the side, most likely the wounds would have been at an angle with the sharp edge down (toward his feet). The angle of the wounds says to me that someone was above Robert’s head when stabbed (and if he was supine in the tub, this could have been accomplished.) Robert was probably transported back into the guestroom in attempt to stage the intruder story. I’ve never seen the t-shirt, so it’s hard to say whether blood could have been applied to the t-shirt or whether he actually bled on the shirt (or if blood came out while being moved). In any event, if the blood patterns don’t match up (i.e., blood on the shirt over the wounds and blood patterns showing the blood drained down the side of his body to the bed), it seems that the blood could have been applied to any surface to look like he had been laying there when stabbed. IMHO

        • KKinCA
          05/30/2010 at 7:47 PM

          Thanks CD. I have read your posts re: the murder taking place in the bathroom as supported by your excellent and reasonable arguments regarding the angle of the knife wounds (among other things), and I think this scenario is certainly possible and based on reasonable inferences from the facts as we know them. If the blood on the bed and possibly on the shirt was planted after the murder in the shower, I just wonder why it was done in such a non-sensical way. As if the murderer and/or evidence tamperer used too much on the shirt and knife and discovered too late that here was not enough remaining blood to put on the sheets to match the amount of bleeding that resulted from the deep knife wounds. And I recall that the blood on the sheet didn’t even seep into the mattress. Maybe this error is attributable to the alleged drug use by the murderer/evidence tamperers or just the rush of the clean up, both of which have been discussed many times here.

          • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
            05/30/2010 at 8:23 PM

            I imagine no one thought about the trajectory of dripping blood. Looks like the perpetrator wasn’t science-minded. 😀

            • Bea
              05/30/2010 at 10:14 PM

              CD and KK, don’t forget too that the officer testified that it appeared that someone had wiped blood on Robert’s chest/abdomen (striation marks as if done by towel). Kind of fits.

              • Lyn
                05/30/2010 at 10:43 PM

                Or at least that his chest had been wiped. I don’t think they implied whether they thought blood was wiped on or off.

              • KKinCA
                05/31/2010 at 1:25 AM

                Bea – very good point.

        • DonnaH
          05/30/2010 at 9:29 PM

          Yes, it doesn’t seem possible with so little blood that he was stabbed in the bed, but I think it equally if not more likely that he was stabbed on a “play mat” (horrible term to employ in this case) in the guest room. For one thing, Joe and Dylan were probably quite accustomed to the use of such a mat to avoid getting bodily fluids on other surfaces, and might well have put Robert onto such a mat early on in order to minimize leaving evidence for him to discover in the morning. They would only have to have kneeled above him to inflict the wounds as described, which I imagine would have been easier than attempting the same thing in the shower. And then they could have even just wiped him off–there was a pattern of blood on his abdomen which suggested wiping, as I recall. Additionally, there were signs of bloodstains all around the walls, etc. of the guestroom, which would be more consistent with the guestroom being the site of the stabbing.

    • KKinCA
      05/30/2010 at 7:29 PM

      CD – Totally off-subject, but I just want you to know that I am not making fun of you or trying to disparage you by calling you CDwhohatesBP. In my past I had a certain “affiliation” with that particular company (I can’t say any more about that), and let me just say that I don’t disagree whatsoever with your exercise of your first amendment rights, nor with the content of your free speech. But if the name I am using for you offends you for any reason, I will refrain from using it.

      • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
        05/30/2010 at 8:26 PM

        KK, absolutely no offense taken. 😀

        • KKinCA
          05/31/2010 at 12:02 AM

          Awesome. I assume your cat is cool with it too. 😉

  5. ladyg
    05/30/2010 at 4:18 PM

    why didn’t the intruder take the knife with him/her…something would incriminate. second thing of interest, that door that leads into the guestroom, if you’re not familar w the room wouldn’t that door hit the nighttable and awaken mr.wone?

    • apple
      05/30/2010 at 6:21 PM

      Interesting…although placing a nighttable where a door would hit it would be VERY bad feng shui. I’m skeptical…

    • BlondeAnon
      05/31/2010 at 1:34 AM

      “why didn’t the intruder take the knife with him/her”. Great question! IF the killer was a random intruder and IF he grabbed a knife from the kitchen to protect himself and IF he had to kill Robert because Robert woke and saw him, then why didn’t he take the knife with him when he left the guest room in case he ran into someone else in the house? Wouldn’t logic follow that he would need to be prepared to kill the next person IF he encountered someone else in the house too?

      Nothing about the story the trouple gave makes sense!

      • plumskiter
        05/31/2010 at 10:03 AM

        BlondeAnon: great point about taking the knife to protect against other occupants.

  6. Craig
    05/30/2010 at 4:29 PM

    CD: That’s a very fresh idea from such an old-timer…

    Why two spots approx six inches apart and not a larger more irregular pooled stain? And why one on the pillow, assuming that’s where Robert’s head or neck was laying?

    The not-so-bloody towel was one thing, but this?

    • Bill Orange
      05/30/2010 at 4:45 PM

      Well, if you’re lying on your back and blood is coming out of the left side of your chest, it’s most likely going to travel either up your chest and over your left shoulder (the spot on top) or to your left (the spot on the bottom) If your left arm is in contact with your chest, it would also have to go over your arm, which could leave the pool farther to the left. The pattern doesn’t surprise me so much as the volume.

      • Carolina
        05/30/2010 at 6:33 PM

        Can you go over that again? Assuming that when liquid meets gravity it flows downhill, if Robert’s head was on his pillow, what would make it run up and over his shoulder and onto his pillow? I’m not being a smart ass, I’m just asking for an explanation.

        • Bill Orange
          05/30/2010 at 7:08 PM

          It really depends on how much of his body was on the pillow. If his shoulders were elevated, then I agree with you. If it’s just his head, then when you’re lying on your back, there’s a downward slope downward from the bottom of your ribcage to the top of it.

          • KKinCA
            05/30/2010 at 7:14 PM

            BO – It’s difficult to discern from the picture above. It looks like the pillow is leaning slightly elevated against the back couch cushions, and that Robert’s head imprint is towards the top of the pillow. But it doesn’t appear to be elevated too much, and depending upon the firmness of the pillow he may have been laying flat. But given how bloody Robert’s shirt was, even assuming the bed’s spots are in the correct position, this doesn’t seem to make any sense no matter how Robert was laying in bed.

            • Bill Orange
              05/30/2010 at 7:46 PM

              I think you’re probably right, but I’d really like to see a picture of the shirt. It’s also possible that the contrast in that photo isn’t very good, and we’re only seeing the heaviest blood spots. But I wouldn’t bet on it. And the sheets really should be in evidence.

              • KKinCA
                05/30/2010 at 7:49 PM

                Good Point. Editors – are there any public photos of the shirt?

            • deepsouth
              05/30/2010 at 9:19 PM

              I’ve been trying to account for the two separate spots of blood, and thinking about how they could have moved a body with that much blood inside the chest cavity without at least some of it seeping out on the way. Even a plastic play sheet would have caused some kind of mess as they dragged it out from under the body. That plus the huge amount of blood on the shirt is making me wonder if they bunched it up to cover the wounds along the way, and maybe the way it was wadded up deflected some blood from between those two patches.

          • Carolina
            05/31/2010 at 10:34 AM

            I am embarrassed to say I spent ten minutes pouring water on my chest to see what directions it would run.

            • Bill Orange
              05/31/2010 at 10:55 AM

              And?

            • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
              05/31/2010 at 10:58 AM

              ::laughing:: Don’t think I didn’t think about it. But as my anatomy differs by being female I don’t think the trajectory of the flow would have been the same. LOL

              On a serious note though…it did seem that blood flowing over the shoulder from the sternum seems to go uphill, not down.

    • CDinDC (Boycott BP)
      05/30/2010 at 9:45 PM

      Two spots because there was more than one wound? Maybe?

      The stains on the bed are where they are. Do the stains on the shirt correspond in any way with the stains on the bed? Is there staining on the shoulder area of the shirt?

      If the stains on the bed do not correspond to the stains on the shirt, perhaps Robert’s body was moved again once he was placed on the bed.

  7. Clio
    05/30/2010 at 4:33 PM

    Thanks, Mr. Hennessy, these drawings really bring the proceedings to life for those of us in the Virginian provinces. Thank you, also, to the local ABC affiliate and its reporters for the additional digital “daguerreotypes” that show both the absurdity of the intruder theory and the ugliness of the parking-patio area.

    The photograph on the nightstand was not even moved by the kindly “intruder” who staged the lighting and placement of the bloody knife just right: please, who do they think they’re still
    kidding?

  8. Eagle
    05/30/2010 at 5:24 PM

    The position of the knife on the stand is unexpected. The sharp tip of the knife points outward and would cut anyone who brushed up against it.
    One would expect that if the knife were carefully removed, that the person removing it would point the tip inward toward the wall-and the handle outward- so that no one (or himself) would get cut.
    Seems a natural self-protective gesture to me.
    Again, another mystery.
    Thanks for the illustrations and pictures, guys.
    I also want to give a salute to Channel 5 which has consistently and thoughtfully reported this case on a reliable basis.

    • Bill Orange
      05/30/2010 at 5:41 PM

      On the other hand, if you cared more about the night stand than you did about other people, that’s exactly how you’d put the knife down.

      But in fairness, you’d probably just put it on the table as quickly as possible and turn back to your friend who’d just been stabbed.

      • plumskiter
        05/30/2010 at 6:25 PM

        good points. i thought the knife position odd too, but hadn’t thought of why until bill o’s observation that someone concerned about the table would set it down that way.

        • Eagle
          05/30/2010 at 6:27 PM

          these guys are looking worser and worser!

          • Eagle
            05/30/2010 at 6:34 PM

            On the other hand, it is not prudent to remove the knife from
            a chest until EMT’s come. that’s another topic

            • Carolina
              05/30/2010 at 6:37 PM

              I really thought “Don’t remove the embedded object” was taught in any first aid or health class, but it’s more than possible the residents were unaware of it. If they weren’t, I can easily understand the reflex to get the knife out of Robert’s chest.

              • KKinCA
                05/30/2010 at 7:00 PM

                I thought that lesson was reenforced all over the world when that Aussie animal guy – (maybe Bill?) Irwin – was stabbed by a ray (?) with the stinger stuck in his heart. He or someone on the boat pulled it out and Irwin bled to death. The story got world wide press, as I recall.

                • AnnaZed
                  05/30/2010 at 7:04 PM

                  Somehow, I missed this.

                  • KKinCA
                    05/30/2010 at 7:07 PM

                    To be honest, I couldn’t begin to tell you when it happened, and I may have been aware of it only because Irwin was popular with kids and I have 3 kids. I do remember it being in mainstream news but it might of been an otherwise boring news cycle.

                • Bill Orange
                  05/30/2010 at 7:10 PM

                  Yes, but Steve Irwin died one month AFTER Wone.

                  • KKinCA
                    05/30/2010 at 7:22 PM

                    BO – thanks! I didn’t remember when it happened, but never thought it could be that long ago. Aging/memory loss is the WORST. Thanks for your fact-checking. And BTW I really enjoy your thoughtful, intelligent posts, as well as your gentle manner with other posters (of course, not if they are completely insane!).

                    • Bill Orange
                      05/30/2010 at 7:48 PM
                    • Bill Orange
                      05/30/2010 at 11:09 PM

                      {Bows.}

        • Carolina
          05/30/2010 at 6:35 PM

          It also depends on the knife and how it was put down. Couldn’t it have “spun” a bit on the smooth wood?

          • Clio
            05/30/2010 at 6:45 PM

            But wouldn’t a spinning knife have sprayed or stained the pristine nightstand — cleanliness was godliness to the Swann Street Three.

            • Carolina
              05/31/2010 at 10:38 AM

              The knife does seem to have very little blood on it, considering. One would expect at least a drop to have fallen, unless it was already coagulating by the time it was placed on the table.

      • Carolina
        05/30/2010 at 6:47 PM

        Has anyone mentioned what the top of the nightstand was made of? Because if it’s honed marble, I can certainly see the “intruder” was very polite in his concern for possible stains.

      • ladyg
        05/30/2010 at 6:49 PM

        pls correct me if i’m wrong. old question (just trying to wrap my brain around this), didn’t i read that joe pulled the knife out of robert (saying he knew that was a dumb move on his part). i would been shaking like a freakin leaf to even do something like…oh btw, didn’t joe shake victor’s shoulder for him to snap out and call 911, (when he saw robert)? would one has blood on his hands? therefore the transfer of blood. now i see why the dets, thought they had that “freshly showered” look.

        • apple
          05/30/2010 at 7:17 PM

          Since reading their statements to the police, I’ve been trying to understand why both Joe and Victor state that Joe grabbed and shook Victor as he was screaming hysterically. I don’t understand why that would need to be part of a cover story (I actually thought it might be true). Or was there blood transfer that needeed to be explained somehow? I don’t recall that. Am I missing something?

          • galoon
            05/30/2010 at 9:12 PM

            apple, I think (guess?) that elements of truth have been woven into Joe’s story and shaking Victor to try and get him to focus is one of them.

            • Clio
              05/30/2010 at 11:20 PM

              Joe may have been using his powers of persuasion on his primary spouse by shaking him into “buying” the intruder theory; a few glares probably sufficed for Dyl, his manservant.

          • Carolina
            05/31/2010 at 10:41 AM

            Maybe that’s why the Prada shirt was in the wash.

            And really, who washes a Prada shirt at home?

            • Clio
              05/31/2010 at 2:36 PM

              I had the same reaction to the Prada shirt, Carolina. It appears that our trouple was sorely lacking in the domestic arts, besides, of course, the speed and thoroughness of their cleaning!

              • Carolina
                05/31/2010 at 8:21 PM

                Can you fathom these men doing their own shirts? And I must be honest, there is no way I would pay $500 for a shirt and wash it in a Kenmore. Call me a snob, but if you can afford the shirt, you can afford the laundry/dry cleaning bill. I would bet a quick investigation would determine that shirt wasn’t machine washable, and that the trouple, or at least the couple, have accounts at the best laundry in town.

  9. Bea
    05/30/2010 at 9:15 PM

    Yes, Joe claimed to have pulled the knife out of Robert’s chest (to W-5 and one cop) and to have removed it from lying on Robert’s chest (to most cops), in both possibilities having “placed” it on the nightstand.

    First, one knows if one has pulled a knife out – primarily because it’s universally understood as a very stupid move (and not about prints – about keeping the person from bleeding out).

    Second, if Joe pulled it “out” he would know WHICH wound was LAST – if the heart wound, then we know it wasn’t FIRST, which could be important. Though I’m sure Joe won’t remember that if that’s what allegedly occurred.

    Third, assuming the knife is just ‘lying’ on Robert’s chest, what would be the reason? Intruder on the third stab pulls it out and tosses it? IF Joe placed it on the nightstand in the manner duplicating how it was lying on Robert, that might make sense that it was knife blade out – BUT his prints should make clear WHERE he grabbed it. AND were there other prints? No. Like the door knobs, which were WIPED down, that was one fastidious intruder who managed not to steal a damned thing but was otherwise very successful in preventing himself from being caught (stealth running down wooden stairs, stopped to wipe down knobs and knife handle – if not wiping blood on fake knife – jumping over high fences without touching the top of the fence or leaving prints on the car hood). Odd, really, that he could be so smart yet accomplish nothing a burglar would want to accomplish AND be stupid enough to scale a back gate on his way out instead of opening the gate door. Joe makes this point himself.

    Yes, Michael Price had a key, and we know from Joe’s interrogation that one key worked everything. I can believe that Michael was the intruder, and can even believe that the defendants were not party to the murder, but if that’s the case, then I’m all but certain the trio would have given him up LONG ago. Involved, perhaps, the only player, not a chance.

    • Kathleen
      05/30/2010 at 10:17 PM

      “Joe claimed to have pulled the knife out of Robert’s chest (to W-5 and one cop) and to have removed it from lying on Robert’s chest (to most cops), in both possibilities having “placed” it on the nightstand.”

      If that’s all they’ve got – one witness who claims that Joe Price says he pulled the knife out of the chest – then W-5 is probably misquoting or misunderstood Price’s words. It wouldn’t be the first time Ws in an affidavit or Gerstein were wrong.

      Another point about prints – intruders do often wear gloves especially those whose prints are already in the criminal system.

      • Bea
        05/30/2010 at 10:35 PM

        Kathleen, during the interrogation transcripts Joe himself says that another cop claimed that Joe pulled the knife from Robert’s chest. Page 9 of 2nd transcript:

        “He had blood on his shirt that was visible. And, like I said, I really don’t know, I think I said the knife was laying on him. One of the officers actually – I think one of the guys last night or whatever said, you know, was it in him. I don’t know.”

        If Joe told a grandiose story to W-5 hours later which included details, then it won’t simply be a ‘mishearing’ on the part of W-5 given the interrogation above. Joe ‘held court’ later that day at Arent Fox, so it won’t surprise me if W-5 is quite certain that Joe made a big deal of pulling the knife from Robert’s chest.

        Time will tell.

      • Clio
        05/30/2010 at 10:42 PM

        W-5, a close friend of Culuket, probably had no reason to misquote him. And, why would anyone place the knife so neatly on the nightstand in the first place? If I was so stupid as to pull a knife out of someone’s chest, then I probably would have dropped it on the floor out of shock. But then again, Swann had nifty hardwood floors, and any damage to those would have hurt resale value.

        Plus, re the gloves, Joe said that “the real killer(s)” wore gloves, probably in part for the reason that you cite, Kathleen. But the trouple may have used their own gloves that night — neither for opera or for fisting — but gloves nonetheless that prevented their prints from being gathered.

        • AkaZappa
          05/31/2010 at 1:37 AM

          W-5 has been identified, has he not? It’s the decorator guy, isn’t it?

          • AnnaZed
            05/31/2010 at 1:38 AM

            yes

          • Clio
            05/31/2010 at 7:39 AM

            Yes. He apparently may have known Culuket in the Biblical sense. So, why would W-5 misquote a particular friend such as that?

      • mia
        05/31/2010 at 1:35 AM

        Can someone tell did the police recover ANY figure prints from the knife / knobs?

    • Lyn
      05/30/2010 at 11:04 PM

      Since Price claims in his account to police that the knife was laying on Wone’s chest, does the front of the shirt have a bloody imprint that matches the profile of the knife? It would certainly seem likely to me that a knife that an “intruder” had just pulled from a man’s heart would be covered in blood. If this knife was then set on Wone’s chest/shirt, I would expect the blood from the knife would be of sufficient quantity to leave a knife-shaped stain right on the shirt.

      If this stain does not exist, how does defense explain Price’s statement that the knife was laid across Wone’s chest?

      • AnnaZed
        05/30/2010 at 11:56 PM

        Excellent point I think.

      • Carolina
        05/31/2010 at 10:45 AM

        And just as importantly, why pull it from his chest and leave it on the body?

  10. Leonard
    05/30/2010 at 9:16 PM

    I reread the transcripts of the interviews with Victor, Joe and Dylan. They don’t come off as rehearsed or phoney to me. I didn’t see the video so will defer to others on veracity / body language etc..

    One odd point mentioned by Victor and Joe was the odd position of Robert’s hand and arm. Thus would be an irrelevant detail but they both mentioned it.

    Stabbing in the heart from what Ive read is unusual. Most times there are stabs to the gut and other soft tissue areas. One noted exception appears to be suicide. I found a number of cases on the web of men stabbing themselves in the heart. The knife blade facing upward might also be explained by self inflicted wounds as might the lack of penetration of the full blade.

    There’s so much that doesn’t make sense here. The semen – could Wone have had sex with someone before getting to Swann St?

    The needle marks. Very odd places to inject someone and not convenient for someone overpowering someone else. Could he have injected himself at some point earlier?

    Petechiae. Again could this be self inflicted?

    Other than the usual shouts back of “don’t blame the victim” Id like to hear some fact based analysis on why it couldn’t possibly be suicide.

    I just can’t see a drugging, sex play, murder, cleanup and conspiring on the details in such a short period of time.

    One last point. About 10 years ago I was being repeatedly followed by a stalker. It got very creepy when I go a call at my NYC apartment from someone who described my movements in the apartment two minutes before the call. If there were an intruder I think it highly unlikely it was random. Much more likely someone Wone knew or someone stalking him.

    • deepsouth
      05/30/2010 at 9:25 PM

      Feet as an injection point might make sense if the person was restrained by the ankles, thus holding them still?

    • Bea
      05/30/2010 at 9:39 PM

      Leonard, besides having given no indication that he was suicidal, that I doubt it ‘reads’ like a suicide lead-up (staying with friends), here are a few more solid reasons why I seriously doubt it was a suicide:
      1. difficult to stab oneself three times;
      2. next to impossible to have absolutely no tears – was done with precision – tough if you’re pushing against your own body;
      3. very difficult to imagine him getting rid of the knife and blood and wiping the blood on the fake knife AND causing the chimes to go off both before and after the suicide. Even if it was the genuine knife, and the defendants were not involved, how’d he get the chimes to sound to wake Joe?

      Don’t really mean to be flippant, but if it was a suicide, there would have been no reason for anyone to assist in a cover up – and thus the 15-30 minute delay to call 911 would have been absurd.

      • Clio
        05/30/2010 at 9:56 PM

        Suicide is completely absurd in this case, for the reasons Bea mentioned, and Robert’s busy schedule that day and evening left no room for sex of any sort.

        Nevertheless, why did both Victor and Joe insist on the weird positioning of Robert’s hand and arm? Thanks for mentioning that, Leonard.

        • plumskiter
          05/31/2010 at 10:08 AM

          i’ve been curious about the hand/arm position statements in the videos as well.

          • Clio
            05/31/2010 at 2:49 PM

            Plums, I thought that this “joint communique” on the weird positioning of Robert’s hand and arm reflected prior collaboration on the trouple’s official story, but maybe it really was like that. Why were Robert’s appendages in that position? Who knows!

    • Bill Orange
      05/30/2010 at 10:37 PM

      “The semen – could Wone have had sex with someone before getting to Swann St?”

      Yes, but his movements for the day are fairly well known, and it would be difficult (though hardly impossible) to get one’s own semen in one’s rectum this way. There’s also no (known) evidence of any sort of rendezvous in the phone or e-mail records, either for that day or for any other day.

      “Could he have injected himself at some point earlier?”

      Yes, but there is no evidence of older needle marks (or any other evidence, for that matter) to suggest a drug habit (and his tox screen was negative), and it’s unusual for a novice to inject themselves in the neck, since you can’t see what you’re doing without a mirror, and even then, it’s pretty hard to do.

      “Petechiae. Again could this be self inflicted?”

      Yes, they potentially could’ve come from some sort of autoerotic asphyxiation. But there were no bruises on the neck to suggest this. In my mind, the two most likely causes of the petechiae are smothering (e.g., something was held over Wone’s face) or extreme straining, which conceivably could have happened during Wone’s trip to the gym that morning.

      “Other than the usual shouts back of “don’t blame the victim” Id like to hear some fact based analysis on why it couldn’t possibly be suicide.”

      It’s certainly possible, but I think it’s very, very unlikely. Suicides usually leave “hesitation marks”, which are shallower wounds that are left as the person becomes more and more committed to killing themselves. There were none here, nor was there any evidence to suggest a previous suicide attempt. Instead, there were three forceful stab wounds that were nearly identical in their nature, suggesting someone who was experienced in handling a knife and very decisive in their actions. And finally, there was no evidence of Wone’s fingerprints on the knife, nor would he have any reason to wipe the knife down after stabbing himself.

      “If there were an intruder I think it highly unlikely it was random. Much more likely someone Wone knew or someone stalking him.”

      If Wone had a stalker, he does not appear to have told anyone about it, nor is there anything (that we know of) in his phone or e-mail records to suggest it. I think the idea that there was an intruder who was stalking Wone has very little to support it. A stalker would likely know Wone’s routine and would most likely strike somewhere that Wone–and therefore the stalker–was familiar with. A strange house in a strange area wouldn’t really fit with this. The stalker would’ve had to follow Wone to Swann Street, go around back, jump the fence, enter the kitchen, ignore the alarm chime, grab a knife, silently navigate his way to the second floor (the guest bedroom faced the street, I think, so I’ll grant you that a stalker could have figured out which room Wone was in by watching the windows), silently stab Wone to death with no signs of movement and no defensive wounds, and flee the house without being seen or heard by the people who live there.

      “I just can’t see a drugging, sex play, murder, cleanup and conspiring on the details in such a short period of time.”

      The time frame is indeed quite short–roughly 75 minutes. But Joe Price and Dylan Ward were both presumably quite experienced with both the sex play and the cleanup. I think that most of us approach this by thinking that we would have no idea how to clean up the body of someone’s who’s just been stabbed to death, but these two men are probably much more adept than you or I are at cleaning up copious amounts of bodily fluids without making a mess. If Wone were attacked shortly after arriving, I think that the timeframe would be tight, but do-able.

      • Jo
        06/01/2010 at 3:19 PM

        Very rational rebuttal of the suicide scenario, which is as likely as saying a martian did it.

        Don’t forget the lack of blood on Robert’s hands.

  11. Angela Channing
    05/30/2010 at 9:56 PM

    Okay, stupid question…Does anyone know why are the published crime scene photos in black and white? Based on the courtroom sketches, they appear to be in color during the trial. Just wondering.

  12. Leonard
    05/30/2010 at 10:05 PM

    Bea

    I agree it’s not likely. But we have no evidence that’s conclusive that the knife is indeed fake. And the wiping of the blade is conjecture as well. The missing blood is so strange that I can only think the ME was completely mistaken, or there was one heck of a cleanup in an incredibly short time frame. My drawing at this straw is that the more I look at the evidence the more surreal the scenario of Price, Ward and Caborsky committing the crime becomes. The one scenario that to me is a nonstarter is an unknown intruder intent on robbery. There’s no evidence of it and it makes no sense. How long does it take to wash a dead guy? How long to inject him, get yourselves suited up for play, position him and use the electrostim. Have him go into cardiac arrest(my conjecture) try to revive him’ stab him, clean up the blood, shower. Dispose of the play mat and other evidence. Switch knives, rearrange the crime scene, throw laundry in the machine. Clean the tub and drains. Post the fake emails. And Im sure aim missing a few points. Seems like a fast forward Benny Hill sketch. Just seems really improbable in the timeframe.

    Also why not lawyer up as soon as they were taken for questioning? I would expect if Price were guilty he would never leave to chance the possibility of Victor or Dylan not just folding under questioning but getting the details wrong.

    • Bea
      05/30/2010 at 10:21 PM

      Hi Leonard,

      In my opinion, it seems quite likely that part of the plan required that they ‘sell’ it that night – if they’d lawyered up and refused to give statements, they would have been suspects for murder in no uncertain terms. And I think Joe thinks he’s smarter than everyone else, figured there was a good chance he’d convince the cops that it must’ve been an unknown ‘intruder’.

      If two-three smart guys are busy with a clean up and if this scenario had been contemplated before (what would we do if the trick doesn’t wake up?), I think there was time. My guess is that Robert was dead before 11. Nearly an hour to get everything done.

      As for the suicide, even assuming facts in light most favorable to that being the cause of death, there would NOT have been any chimes to awaken Joe or that Victor would have heard during his hysterical screaming fit. There would have been no chimes – period. And if it were a suicide that they’d seen upon descending the stairs, then 911 would have been called immediately and Joe may have attempted life-saving measures.

      None of the stories ‘work’ in full, I agree. But why don’t they work? My sense is that the only reason there are details that we can’t know is because someone made damned sure of it.

      • Bill Orange
        06/01/2010 at 8:36 AM

        “In my opinion, it seems quite likely that part of the plan required that they ’sell’ it that night – if they’d lawyered up and refused to give statements, they would have been suspects for murder in no uncertain terms.”

        I agree completely. Furthermore, keep in mind that Joe and Robert had a number of mutual friends, most (if not all) of whom gave Joe the benefit of the doubt about the events of the evening. Joe Price went to Robert Wone’s funeral and was even a pallbearer. That wouldn’t have happened if they’d refused to talk to the police.

  13. susan
    05/30/2010 at 10:13 PM

    Is there any record of M. Price’s cell phone records being checked that night? Records of all the other guy’s cell calls, cell tower locations?

    Re the knife and J. Price–does anyone know which story re his involvement (pulling it out or moving it from atop R. Wone) made it into his taped testimony?

    • Clio
      05/30/2010 at 10:59 PM

      Re Michael Price’s cell phone records, I would like to know if he called (or emailed) his instructor before class to tell him/her of his absence on August 2. Or, did he tell the instructor the reason for his absence after the fact? Too many students, even adult learners such as Michael, never call (or email or text) about their skipping class, though, alas!

      • Carolina
        05/31/2010 at 8:26 PM

        Oh too true! These kids today; never call, never write… Heh. Although if Michael were in the state that Louis painted him, I’m not sure if he could have managed to peck out a note on his phone. I certainly would love to read it if he did!

    • AnnaZed
      05/30/2010 at 11:10 PM
  14. Leonard
    05/30/2010 at 10:34 PM

    Bea

    I don’t think it’s likely either. But when I read the transcripts I don’t get a sense of them being rehearsed. Would like to see how they come across in video.

    • Bea
      05/30/2010 at 10:38 PM

      Me too – according to news accounts and the Eds., Joe is nervous and fidgety at times, confrontational at others – odd that he’s not crying about his dead friend or making comments which seem to suggest he’s working WITH officers to find out who did this. In that respect, even the dry words of the transcript seem off to me. Because they all use “intruder” and 11:43 and no one has any real detail distinction, even as to how the evening progressed, it seems to me to be concocted. Why would three men who have nothing whatever WRONG talk about getting certain details exactly alike in advance of questioning?

      • Bill Orange
        05/30/2010 at 11:15 PM

        Joe’s pretty much like that all the time.

        • Carolina
          05/31/2010 at 11:38 AM

          But one would assume he doesn’t have a dead friend all the time. I agree, it’s hard to make any kind of conclusion on behavior of a suspect. As I said before, Susan Smith made quite a showing of her grief, but she’d drowned her children in order to be with her new beau (and, coincidentally, blamed it on an AA carjacker).

      • susan
        05/31/2010 at 1:50 AM

        Bea,

        I noticed that obsession with the word “intruder” and “11:43.” I have only read J. Price’s two interviews (with Waid and w/Norris & Wagner) and he seems obsessed with noting that V asked the time and it was 11:43.

        It also just seems bizarre that he said he didn’t hear footsteps on the staircase. So maybe said “intruder” intruded in his/her bare feet, and since there were no footprints or scuffs on the fence, etc., he/she flew in and out. I also don’t understand how J. Price was so certain that the peson didn’t exist via the front door. He was resolute on that.

        • AkaZappa
          05/31/2010 at 1:54 AM

          Especially since they all said 11:43, and were all wrong, because the 911 operator told them it was 11:54.

      • susan
        05/31/2010 at 2:00 AM

        I agree, it is noticeable how often “intruder” and “11:43” are mentioned. It is mentioned several times in JP’s interviews.

    • Carolina
      05/31/2010 at 8:27 PM

      Especially found this to be true with Dylan Ward. Maybe not unrehearsed, but certainly far more believable.

  15. YournormalJoe
    05/30/2010 at 10:56 PM

    I have an off the wall question…when the drug test were done on Robert would Ketamine (Special K) have shown in the report. Ketamine is a cat tranquilizer often used in the gay community.

    • Bea
      05/30/2010 at 10:59 PM

      Hey Joe, it’s long been a theory that Ketamine was used on Robert – I believe CDinDC has been a proponent of this theory since very early on. If I recall correctly, they did not test for it, or if they did, it was after the time that it would have appeared (half life issues). Welcome – if you use the search function, you’ll find a lot of this information.

    • Bob
      05/31/2010 at 12:13 PM

      If ketamine is a cat tranquilizer, was it used by the cat torturer (Phelps?)? Would that be relevant to the case?

      • WhatACase
        05/31/2010 at 12:20 PM

        And would M. Price have been practicing his phlebotomy skills on the cat?

      • Carolina
        05/31/2010 at 8:29 PM

        You don’t need a cat to find K in any major (or lesser) city. It’s as easy to find as e and that is especially true in the club culture, gay *or* straight.

  16. YournormalJoe
    05/30/2010 at 11:17 PM

    Thank you Bea for the search idea, there is alot posted on Ketamine. For the life of me, I just simply cannot understand how these 3 will get away with this. (Pardon my speculation of guilt but it’s my opinion).

    • Bill Orange
      05/30/2010 at 11:21 PM

      I’ll give you even odds that Zaborsky is found not guilty. I think Joe Price will be found guilty. I’m not sure about Dylan–it all depends on how good of a closing argument his lawyer makes.

      • AnnaZed
        05/30/2010 at 11:59 PM

        I’ll take that bet, all guilty is the way I see the judge deciding. All or not at all, but I say all.

        • Bill 2
          05/31/2010 at 12:21 AM

          I agree. If there is a conspiracy, there’s just no way Zaborsky would not know. He may have arrived late, but how could anyone think he was totally in the dark about covering up and cleaning up if that’s what one or two others were doing?

          • AnnaZed
            05/31/2010 at 12:23 AM

            For one thing, the time frame doesn’t permit it.

        • NYer
          05/31/2010 at 8:40 AM

          Ditto- Victor won’t get off. The 911 call, with its time stamp, its inconsistencies, as well as VZ’s piss-poor theatrics, will seal his fate.

          • Clio
            05/31/2010 at 9:11 AM

            Amen on VZ.

            But Dyl may escape judgment … at least on these charges. Joe’s glares may have been helpful, at least to Needham’s prodigal son, after all.

      • Carolina
        05/31/2010 at 11:42 AM

        I think it will be all or nothing. Which way it goes, I wouldn’t put money on.

  17. Leonard
    05/30/2010 at 11:20 PM

    Bill Orange

    if Wone were heavily sedated or perhaps in cardiac arrest (not dead mind you) which could easily result from any if the drugs so often mentioned or from an electrostim his blood pressure would be so low as to produce minimal spatter.

    • Bill Orange
      05/30/2010 at 11:58 PM

      Yes, but the defendants are pretty clearly guilty under all of those scenarios.

      • WhatACase
        05/31/2010 at 12:32 AM

        Len — minimal splatter, sure, but minimal leakage all over the bed? no way. I’ve had a nose bleed do more damage to bed sheets than I saw in the guestroom photos.

    • Carolina
      05/31/2010 at 8:32 PM

      The estim is unlikely to cause bp to drop or result in cardiac arrest. It’s not that sort of jolt, although it might be interesting to see what happens when you use it in the bathtub.

  18. Grrr
    05/30/2010 at 11:59 PM

    Hey from Dallas,

    Love this website & I have been following this one for a while. I am not trying to blame the victim here, but there is tons of chatter about towels, knifes, weird semen deposits, calm bath robe people, etc. However there is little information on exactly what Mr. Wone was doing professionally. My thinking is, of course, that this Dylan person was most likely involved as the conventional wisdom dictates. BUT, did Mr. Wone do anything to piss off the Chinese government?

    • Joyce
      05/31/2010 at 12:52 AM

      or North Korea? Or any of a half-dozen or so other hostile governments? Yes, Grrr. He wasn’t just anybody… the was a lawyer for Radio Free Asia.

      And he was in the front of the house where he could be easily observed.

      And if you wanted to assassinate someone, wouldn’t you want their heart stopped to keep things tidy? There was a lot of internal bleeding, right?

      And the best reason to keep silent I can think of would be being handed a note that says “Say nothing or your loved ones die- The Ninja Assassin.”

      • Carolina
        05/31/2010 at 11:44 AM

        He was the NEW lawyer. He actually met the staff THAT NIGHT.

    • mia
      05/31/2010 at 1:25 AM

      This almost is the the most creative idea I’ve seem on this site. Yes by the time he was murdered, Robert was a general counsel for Radio Free Asia, for approximately one week. Before that, he was an associate for a law firm focusing on employment law and commercial real estate.
      And as far as we know, his other colleagues in RFA are just fine.

      • susan
        05/31/2010 at 1:39 AM

        Thought I read that M. Price had some kind of pronounced interest in Asian culture or possibly Asians in general? Lived in Asia, worked in an Asian-owned store. Wondering if there could be a possible connection btw that and this case.

        • AkaZappa
          05/31/2010 at 1:41 AM

          I know Dylan lived in Asia. Didn’t know that about M Price.

          • AnnaZed
            05/31/2010 at 1:43 AM

            That’s because he didn’t.

            • Nelly
              06/01/2010 at 12:28 PM

              I thought the Prices lived for a while on a military base in Okinawa when they were kids.

          • susan
            05/31/2010 at 1:53 AM

            Thanks, yes, I think it was Dylan I was thinking of.

          • Hoya Loya
            06/01/2010 at 6:42 AM

            I seem to remember reading here that Michael did actually work at a Dupont area store that was asian-operated — I think recently closed or soon to close. It may have been a woman who owned it?

            • Agatha
              06/01/2010 at 8:47 AM

              Yes, apparently – Go Mama Go! on 14th Street.

        • AnnaZed
          05/31/2010 at 1:42 AM

          No that’s Ward.

          Take.the.time.to.read.the.posts.by.the.editors.of.this.site.

          I recommend starting with Wone 101, there are tabs at the top of every page.

          • KKinCA
            05/31/2010 at 1:58 AM

            AZ – I am sensing some frustration . . . My (totally unsolicited) advice: get off line, take a hot bath and read a good book and escape from WMRW for a little while! Leave the corrections of the newbies’ comments to other regulars. You have done way more than your share!!

            • cinnamon
              05/31/2010 at 8:49 AM

              I tend to agree with AnnaZed. I read this site for months and sat back as an observer, taking in all of the information that the editors and commenters presented. I let the information sink in and kept reading the archives before asking questions or constructing a theory. This is a complicated case that demands alot of thought. There is a ton of information available on this site. I agree that “newbies” should take the time to read Wone 101, the legal documents and several of the archived posts to get a good background of this case.

              • Carolina
                05/31/2010 at 11:46 AM

                You put that so perfectly. It’s not that we don’t welcome newcomers, but it would be polite to at least read what’s already been written before jumping in.

        • mia
          05/31/2010 at 2:57 AM

          There is this rice queen speculation over Dylan, primarily because he had lived a considerable time here and there in Asia. But I don’t think there’s anything solid being proved.

          • 05/31/2010 at 3:28 AM

            On 3/26/2010 David posted the following as part of a story titled “Chinese Handcuffs”:

            The story goes that Joe Price was at a popular DC strip joint for gay men. That night, Joe was extremely interested in an Asian dancer. Joe continued by offering him drugs if he would come home with him. The Asian man refused when he found out Joe had a partner back at home which would make for a complicated evening. Had the stripper only known of two partners back on Swann…

            The Asian dancer contacted our source shortly after the murder when he recognized photographs of Joe Price in the media and related this story of Joe’s “clear” interest in him that night.

            • Clio
              05/31/2010 at 8:29 AM

              How many Arent-Fox partners or soon-to-be-partners would offer a burlesque performer of any gender drugs for sex? If that story is true, the sheer recklessness of Culuket’s indiscretions was bound to lead to some horrific end, I am afraid.

              • Carolina
                05/31/2010 at 11:56 AM

                How many AF partners keep S&M photos, especially of themselves, on their office computer? He really did not have the best judgment, even if you discount his arrogance.

            • Bill Orange
              05/31/2010 at 9:56 AM

              I really hope that this young man was encouraged to contact the police. Granted, he’s unlikely to want the entire world to know that he is (or was) a stripper, but I hope he’ll realize that this is a key piece of evidence.

              I’m also very glad, for his sake, that he declined the invitation that evening.

              • Carolina
                06/01/2010 at 12:02 AM

                Chances of a stripper/gogo dancer still being anywhere near DC are slim and none.

          • Carolina
            05/31/2010 at 8:34 PM

            Mia, wasn’t there some issue with the last Asian couple he lived with while abroad? I have to go look it up now.

      • Joyce
        05/31/2010 at 2:36 AM

        … how does one week or ten years make any difference? And can you imagine that the murder didn’t send a chill up the spines at RFA?

        • mia
          05/31/2010 at 3:01 AM

          Well I think it indeed does make a difference.
          Do you seriously believe Mr. Wone was murdered by Chinese (or north Korean) government?

          • Bob
            05/31/2010 at 11:30 AM

            That is referred to in this forum as the Chinese ninja theory. It has been pointed out that there are at least two problems with that theory. First, a real professional assassin would have waited until the middle of the night when all of the residents and the guest would have been asleep, rather than entering sometime between 10:30 pm and 11:30 pm. Second, there would have been much more blood in the guest room than was observed.

        • mia
          05/31/2010 at 3:18 AM

          I just came out a new idea: since Ward had lived in Asia for a couple of years and seems he even learned some Chinese language. Maybe, just maybe he’s recruited by Chinese govt as some sort of secret agent? Think about it, he’s even living in D.C.!

          • Clio
            05/31/2010 at 7:58 AM

            I know that you are joking, Mia, but that idea is not new. No one could/would hire Mr. Ward for a sustained period to do anything: that’s largely why he’s self-employed. Joe got him his best job, and he did not keep that for long. As a “dom” and a free spirit, he probably both resents and craves authority figures at the same time. So, not even the nutbag dictator in North Korea could/would be that desperate for intelligence as to hire Lil’ Dyl!

          • Carolina
            05/31/2010 at 8:35 PM

            I think we have a winner, folks!

            Thank you for the much needed laugh, mia.

        • Bill Orange
          05/31/2010 at 9:53 AM

          “… how does one week or ten years make any difference? ”

          Well, I think that if he’d only been there one week, he would’ve been unlikely to have done anything to attract the attention of any foreign power.

        • Carolina
          05/31/2010 at 11:57 AM

          Um…

    • Bob
      05/31/2010 at 11:36 AM

      The idea that Robert was assassinated by the Chinese government is known here as the Chinese ninja theory. (The North Korean ninja theory is a variant.) The problem with that theory is that a real professional assassin would have entered in the middle of the night when the residents and the guest could be presumed to be asleep. Also, there would have been much more blood in the guest room than was found.

  19. 05/31/2010 at 12:35 AM

    Hello to Everyone, I have been following the case since the Tragedy happened, I Live in Canada so there is know coverage on the trial, so I appreciate finding this site, my Condolences to Robert’s dear wife, I dont blog so I would just like to say thanks for all the hard work you gentelmen do, thanks Craig, David,Doug and Michael, and W.J. Hennessy, he sure does wonderful work.
    Thankyou

    • KKinCA
      05/31/2010 at 1:47 AM

      Hi Anne. I live in SoCal where the media is focused on deaths of celebrities, alcohol/drug problems of starlets, who has had plastic surgery and denied it, etc, etc. I too am so grateful that I stumbled onto this site the weekend before the trial started. I have been riveted ever since. The editors are doing amazing work staying on top of such a difficult and complex case, and writing multiple interesting and insightful blogs EACH day, while covering the trial IN PERSON. And did I mention they continue to do their “day jobs” too? And they monitor literally hundreds of readers comments each day and frequently add their comments to the discussion, and event warn posters who tread too close to violating rules of posting. Unbelievable! Craig, David, Doug and Michael are my heros! Such an awesome tribute to Robert.

  20. AkaZappa
    05/31/2010 at 1:17 AM

    Is the following already known to the site? It’s the first I’ve heard of it (from WaPo)

    Prosecutors also plan to present evidence of a confrontation between Michael Price and a homicide detective on the day of Wone’s funeral. As mourners and police detectives gathered in a parking lot after the funeral, Price allegedly, in a profanity-laced rage, confronted Detective Gail Russell-Brown with questions about why police were harassing his brother instead of searching for Wone’s killer.

    The confrontation, prosecutors assert, is evidence of Michael Price’s “consciousness of guilt” — a legal standard of evidence that prosecutors use to show how a person’s actions after a crime reveal that person’s involvement in the crime. Attorneys for the housemates argue that Price was simply defending his brother. On Friday, Leibovitz ordered prosecutors to present additional evidence of Price’s state of mind during his confrontation with the detective before she allows the detective to testify.

    • AnnaZed
      05/31/2010 at 1:18 AM

      I just read that piece too.

      Holy crap Batman, with a brother like Mike it’s a wonder that Joe isn’t worse than he seems.

      • AkaZappa
        05/31/2010 at 1:23 AM

        Curiouser and curiouser, it never stops with this case.

      • mia
        05/31/2010 at 3:36 AM

        I wonder has he ever showed up in the court since the trial started? seems he cared his brother a lot.

        • Clio
          05/31/2010 at 8:13 AM

          Well, Michael did say in his Manhunt ad that he could go “from mild to wild.” Sigh! Why would you harangue a lady of the law at a funeral of a person whom you never met? A parking-lot catfight: how disgraceful!

          Michael should have been preparing for his final exams at Montgomery; instead, a few months later, he then “robs” the house of the brother whom he “valiantly” defended. I wonder if the proprietors of Go, Mama, Go ever weighed these paradoxical facts!

        • plumskiter
          05/31/2010 at 10:18 AM

          if michael is under subpoena by any party, he would be barred from the courtroom under the rule that requires upcoming witnesses to be sequestered so that their testimony is not influenced by the testimony of others. so, there may be a legal reason for Michael’s absence from the trial courtroom to date.

          • Farmer Ginny
            05/31/2010 at 11:11 AM

            Of course, that rule is rendered moot by this website. Anything he needs to know is spelled out right here.

            • Clio
              05/31/2010 at 2:56 PM

              The younger Price probably does not have a computer at the safe and undisclosed location where he is staying, although he could access this site at the public library.

            • Carolina
              05/31/2010 at 3:26 PM

              Or any reporting, actually.

    • Bill Orange
      05/31/2010 at 10:07 AM

      I still can’t fathom why he was at the funeral in the first place. I haven’t seen anything saying that he even knew Robert Wone.

      The brothers Price obviously have a an unusual relationship, but screaming at the police at someone’s funeral just seems way over the line to me.

      • KKinCA
        05/31/2010 at 11:20 AM

        Maybe Michael introduced himself to Robert on August 2nd. BTW – Bill O – that bow yesterday was very cute – brought a smile to my face 🙂 [there was no room in the thread to respond]

        • Bill Orange
          05/31/2010 at 12:58 PM

          Many thanks. 😉

      • Carolina
        05/31/2010 at 3:27 PM

        Again, why would Louis Hinton leave a message on Robert’s online memorial if he and Michael were not acquainted?

        • Carolina
          05/31/2010 at 3:28 PM

          Pardon my antecedent. “He” in that sentence indicates Robert.

          • Clio
            05/31/2010 at 3:52 PM

            Carolina, dearest, Mr. Hinton seems to have been a bit more of a wordsmith than the younger Price, having kept a diary during this time. Louis probably expressed the feelings of sadness and/or guilt that his “partner” was feeling. Furthermore, Louis was the only satellite of Culuket to make such a gesture, a gesture stemming much more from sensibility rather than from sense.

            • Carolina
              05/31/2010 at 8:39 PM

              Let’s not forget that Joe defended Louis in his trial for beating the bejesus out of Joe’s dear brother. It’s a nicely complex relationship, isn’t it?

              • Clio
                05/31/2010 at 8:53 PM

                After learning that Joe was repeatedly beat up by Michael during their childhood, I was not as surprised by Joe’s siding with Louis. Revenge is a dish best served cold — even between the Brothers Price!

  21. sue
    05/31/2010 at 1:21 AM

    After reading court summary and viewing pictures, has anyone considered that Mr. Wone was already deceased when stabbed. Could it be possible that is why he didn’t bleed out everywhere. Perhaps the murderer(s) adminstered a lethal does of drugs that prosecution said was used to sexually assault Mr. Wone without Mr. Wone resisting, but it put him in cardiac arrest or in a deep coma which he couldn’t be revived. Maybe that is reason for all the needle marks. They were trying to revive him but to no avail, so they set up the “murder plot.” This is by far the strangest group of men I’ve ever read about. And I’m not talking about their sexual orientation but rather their sexual preferences and their relationship. Reads like something out of a novel, only the death is real.

    • AnnaZed
      05/31/2010 at 1:26 AM

      Read the autopsy yourself:

      http://whomurderedrobertwone.com/2010/05/14/the-autopsy/

      ::sigh::

    • AkaZappa
      05/31/2010 at 1:26 AM

      I think most denizens of this site believe something like what you describe, except that the ME did find that the cause of death wad the bleeding from the stabbing. Still, the Swann St cabal may have believed they inadvertently killed Robert after drugging him, as you suggest.

    • Bill Orange
      05/31/2010 at 10:11 AM

      I think that this is entirely possible. But under this scenario, they’re all guilty of the crimes for which they were charged, as well as numerous other felonies.

      My big question is: Is there any reasonable scenario under which the defendants are NOT guilty of these charges. I can’t come up with one.

    • Carolina
      05/31/2010 at 3:29 PM

      Only about a hundred times 🙂 You will find some fascinating ideas and theories brought up and tossed about as you read more.

  22. Farmer Ginny
    05/31/2010 at 9:39 AM

    This may have been mentioned previously, but I haven’t seen it. Could someone have already been inside the house, say in Dylan Ward’s room while Dylan was supposedly exercising with the door shut? Perhaps Michael Price? He seems to be quite happy making his brother’s life miserable. If he’d been left alone in the room while they had dinner, he could have found Dylan’s carving set & taken the knife out.

  23. Agatha
    05/31/2010 at 9:53 AM

    Is it possible that between 10:30 and 11:00 p.m. – Wone was drugged, restrained upright in the bathroom with a playmat down with Price and Ward as the primary attackers.

    When Price and Ward worry he is dead and they conjure up another scenario.

    Closest weapon around is in Ward’s room. They stab Wone from behind – as the flat end of the knife would be pointed down with the sharp edge up and blood would be away from the attacker.

    Victor hears something comes downstairs and screams when he witness the scene. Then as a trouple they clean up the body in the bathroom and stage the death in the bedroom – making sure not to damage any of the fine furnishings.

    Afterwards – trouple shower up to clean off.

    Perhaps Price’s brother Michael was already in the house as a voyeur or participant … and left with the clean up materials.

    Sarah, the downstairs roommate – well, knew of the activities upstairs – would stay elsewhere when activities were scheduled. So, she knows this was a premeditated attack.

    Intruder story is so far fetched – try scaling their back fence and not leave any skin – enter – don’t pay any attention to the alarm chime – browse through the kitchen select a knife for what? … walk up wooden stairs without making any noise … attack without making any noise … clean up oily slick blood .. and depart without being seen with the clean up material back over the fence and down the alley. Please, this is rather insulting to an intelligent being.

    • Carolina
      05/31/2010 at 3:51 PM

      Don’t forget that Ward says his light was on until 11 or so. Unless the “intruder” spent no time at all watching the back of the house, he would have known someone was in the house and probably not yet asleep, unless s/he was counting on that someone taking a Lunesta.

      • Clio
        05/31/2010 at 9:18 PM

        Or, he/she was counting on someone reading that snore of a New Yorker article. Double yawn! I would have expected Mr. Ward to be reading something a little more substantial and engaging that evening — like a novel by Proust or Balzac or, at the very least, Alice Walker.

        • AkaZappa
          05/31/2010 at 9:25 PM

          In Cold Blood
          Crime and Punishment
          The Telltale Heart
          Heart of Darkness
          The Trial
          An American Tragedy
          Macbeth
          Julius Caesar

          • Clio
            05/31/2010 at 10:07 PM

            Great choices, Aka. If Dyl had only selected one of them, then he could have stayed awake, and the intruder would have sacked Tom and John’s instead.

            I trust, though, that most prison libraries have at least one copy of each of the books that you list above — the boys may have a lot of time to catch up on their reading soon.

  24. Leonard
    05/31/2010 at 11:23 AM

    In Wards interview he mentions that the reason Wone was staying late was to meet the night shift, explicitly because the person who held the job before appeared to have been let go because of problems dealing with people. I would expect Wone would be very careful to make sure he wasn’t making the mistakes of his predecessor.

    Two points strike me on this. First off you have a potentially disgruntled employer who might be angry at being fired and perhaps envious of his successor Wone. Secondly Ward didn’t play that possibility up at all – it skipped into the conversation with no implications or directiond on how that person might be a suspect. This all at a point where Ward has been saying that none of it makes any sense and he can’t figure out how it might have happened.

    I’ve reread the transcripts a few times and they do not seem rehearsed or stagy to me. The argument that these are all highly confident narcissists and they didn’t lawyer up because they were arrogant doesn’t play out from the text. I never get the feeling that the suspects are ever trying to be in charge of the interview and they all appear somewhat confused but they don’t seem to vary the original story to a point where a major lie pops right out.

    Ward discredits the idea of a burglar not making much sense and ditto to suicide but also to the possibility that Victor or Joe could possibly have done it.

    If they truly wanted to fake the intruder story why nit agree that they heard someone else in the house? Why not unlock the back gate? If these guys are as brilliantly cunning as they’re being made out to be why not add the obviuos bits about hearing an intruder?

    I encourage every reader of the blog to read as much of the evidence as possible themselves and not depend solely on my or any other posters interpretations.

    • Bill Orange
      05/31/2010 at 1:25 PM

      Just thinking on the fly here, but here are my answers:

      “If they truly wanted to fake the intruder story why nit agree that they heard someone else in the house?”

      Because if someone made a lot of noise LEAVING the house, you’d expect them to make a lot of noise ENTERING the house. You could posit that someone would be more sneaky on the way in than on the way out, but then you’d have to say that someone was able to get all the way to Wone’s bedside without waking up Wone himself, but then made an enormous racket getting out of the house.

      “Why not unlock the back gate?”

      Because then you’d be asked if you usually left the back gate unlocked, and the answer to that is probably no. Furthermore, your fourth tenant, Sarah Morgan, was described as somewhat security conscious, and that back gate is a barrier to the outside entrance to her apartment, and she’s reasonably likely to insist on it being locked at all times.

      “If these guys are as brilliantly cunning as they’re being made out to be why not add the obviuos bits about hearing an intruder?”

      Because the more bits you add, the more likely you are to make a mistake.

      I should say that I knew Joe Price in college. He is extraordinarily intelligent, and he’s very quick-witted, even (perhaps especially) when he’s under pressure. Based on what I knew of him, I can tell you that IF (and that’s obviously a big “if”) he wanted to invent a story for the events of the evening, he could probably have put something like this together in under five minutes, and then given the other two their talking points. I think that there are a lot of things that can be said in favor of the defendants, but “they’re not smart enough to come up with something like this in such a short amount of time” isn’t one of them.

    • Carolina
      05/31/2010 at 3:54 PM

      Would you mind quoting the information that says why the previous attorney was let go? Also, be aware that Robert was not an immediate hire. The job was posted and Robert responded to an ad.

      Also, while Ward may have said such a thing, it wasn’t under oath and would at best appear to be hearsay that someone would have to check out. Did they? Can you point to where that info is found?

      • Bea
        05/31/2010 at 4:01 PM

        I think Joe’s transcripts indicate that Robert had said the prior general counsel hadn’t spent enough time with the staff who works nights. That said, that hardly is indicative of ‘disgruntled employee’ who murders his replacement. One thing which gets raised from time to time is the nature of RFA. As general counsel, Robert’s job would be to handle employee issues, try to find outside counsel for minor squabbles (including the trademark matter that Joe may have been ‘pitching’) and other fairly routine matters. In-house counsel, while an important role, is hardly ‘assassination-worthy’. The longer one is ensconced in the position, the more they become (or can) ‘players’ in the business itself, but particularly at the beginning (first two weeks!) they really know very little.

        KK, I believe you are in-house, can you back me up on this?

        • KKinCA
          05/31/2010 at 5:56 PM

          Bea – Well said. The role and responsibilities of an in-house General Counsel vary based on the culture of the company (whether the legal department is valued vs. viewed as a necessary evil), the size and/or complexity of the company, whether the company is privately-owned or public, and the size of the legal department, among other factors. Most General Counsel have substantial management responsibilities, such as supervising more junior attorneys, paralegals and legal support staff, budgeting, etc. with little time left to actually “practice law.”

          In my 20 years of in-house legal practice, I haven’t seen ANY General Counsel work his or her way into a job on the business side (although many do try). But I think what may be relevant to this discussion re: Robert is that privileged and confidential communications constantly occur between the General Counsel and his/her clients, particularly when something bad happens (for example, BP’s internal discussions with its attorneys after the oil spill).

          I suppose that someone can argue that one of Robert’s new clients at RFA shared some information with Robert that possibly was damaging to some Asian person, and thus Robert was assassinated to keep a lid on the information. But the irony is that Robert couldn’t have divulged any information as he was bound by the privilege. This is all kind of a stretch in my opinion for many reasons, but particularly given that he was so new to the job and was just starting to cultivate trusting relationships with his new clients.

        • Carolina
          05/31/2010 at 8:43 PM

          Joe’s transcript, but not Dylan’s, correct? And does he indicate that the previous attorney was let go *because* he didn’t spend enough time with staff? I have to go back and read it again. I read Dylan’s and found nothing, which is why I asked for the clarification from Leonard.

  25. WhatACase
    05/31/2010 at 12:16 PM

    Len — Agree with your last graph; all of us should reach our own conclusions. The value of this blog is both the wonderful job that the eds have done in creating/reporting/managing it, but also in the comments. Some truly insightful theories and interesting comments are posted every day, helping all to think through the issues; I’ve found the comments to be invaluable in building my own theories and thinking through the issues.

    I think most of the posters on this blog have tried to be as open-minded as possible as to what may or may not have happened, especially when new to the blog. But when the evidence that the lads aren’t being straightforward is overwhelmingly, it’s hard to constantly give them the benefit of the doubt (that’s the judge’s job; our job is to provoke debate, jog thinking, pose questions, and yes, challenge each other’s theories).

    The best we can do is use logic and rational thought to weigh the various scenarios. For example, how likely is it that the former general counsel of RFA is a homicidal maniac who got extremely lucky, while stalking robert, to follow him to a house where the back door was left open? And then even luckier that the housemates were able to hear “low grunts” and “moans,” but not footsteps on hardwood floors, or a rape, or a cleanup, or a departure?

    How likely is it that the Chinese or Thai or South Korean governments decided to assasinate the brand-new general counsel of RFA? For both of these scenarios, “preposterous” comes to mind. But compare that to a scenario where one or more of the housemates interfered with Robert, or simply knows what really happened, but has decided to not share details? Add in the discrepancies in their stories (Joe Price says, alternatively, that he moved the knife off of robert’s chest; or he pulled the knife out; he says he heard low grunts or moans, but he told Kathy wone that he heard three moans as Robert was being stabbed, and that he was “stabbed in the back;” he told Officer Durham that robert was stabbed on the patio; and on and on). That simply seems likely–not preposterous at all.

    I’ve also read the interrogations several times, and agree that, especially in the cases of Dylan and Victor, they don’t scream “liars,” except in the overall implausability of it all. But I do find it incredibly strange that they all use the same language, and recall some of the same small details (come on, a spider on a light outside?? In recalling the details of an evening, who would recall a 10-second incident like that? But it sure does conveniently create the scenario of the back door being left unlocked, with a “gee, Joe must have forgotten to lock the door after checking on that bug on the light” story.) They also routinely use the royal “we” to describe what should be individual recollections—-“we heard a scream,” “we heard a chime,” etc.

    This is a long way of saying that I agree that every visitor to this blog, if interested, should read as much as possible, and reach their own conclusions. But the fact that the majority of those who do so end up reaching very similar conclusions—that the lads aren’t telling the whole truth and therefore are guilty of obstruction of justice—is no more unusual than the fact that most new math students eventually conclude that two plus two equals four.

    • Clio
      05/31/2010 at 2:41 PM

      Amen, WAC.

  26. christy love
    05/31/2010 at 1:04 PM

    How come people think Victor is so innocent?

    • Lee
      05/31/2010 at 1:13 PM

      Christy, I suspect that some people feel that Victor was not involved in Robert’s murder. I think that sentiment infiltrates some of the comments, even though this trial is about conspiracy and not murder. It’s difficult to speculate about what happened with the cover up without also speculating about the murder itself.

    • Bill Orange
      05/31/2010 at 1:34 PM

      “So innocent” probably isn’t the right phrase. I think most people on here think that, when it comes to the current charges (obstruction of justice, etc.), if one of them is guilty, then they all are. However, I think most people think that Victor wasn’t involved in the initial stabbing (and whatever else happened), mainly because Victor wasn’t supposed to be there.

      He was on a business trip and wasn’t expected home until around midnight. He caught an earlier flight and ended up coming home in the early evening. All three defendants agree that Victor didn’t know Wone was coming over until late in the evening, and all three say that he stayed in his room and never saw Wone alive. Furthermore, it’s fairly clear that Ward and Price were in a BDSM relationship, and it doesn’t appear that Victor had any interest in that sort of thing, so I think that most people have assumed that he’d be unlikely to be involved in any sort of sexual assault.

      • WhatACase
        05/31/2010 at 2:05 PM

        Agree. Additionally, many of us assume that the scream that the neighbors heard actually came from Victor, as the autopsy strongly suggests that Wone was too incapacitated to scream. Why would Victor have screamed if he was part of the activities leading up to the stabbing? This is pure speculation, of course, but its also consistent with the widely reported description of Victor as a quiet, kind person.

      • AkaZappa
        05/31/2010 at 2:20 PM

        Interest in BDSM does not in any way imply that someone would be inclined to participate in a sexual assault. The vast majority of people who practice BDSM do it on a safe, sane and consensual basis.

        • christy love
          05/31/2010 at 2:47 PM

          You are right Mr. Orange, “so innocent” was a poor choice of words. Maybe Robert opened his eyes when stabbed and Victor screamed, maybe blood squirted out and on Victor and he screamed, could have been any weird experience and he screamed, doesn’t necessarily mean he didn’t participate in the murder.

    • Carolina
      05/31/2010 at 3:58 PM

      I don’t think anyone who is inclined to suspect the trouple was involved in conspiracy has given Victor a pass. Most, however, don’t think he was in on the killing.

      Of course, some of us remember Victor running from the courtroom on their first appearance and wondering how anyone so flaky would be able to hold up. I think there’s more to Victor than meets the eye.

  27. 05/31/2010 at 2:57 PM

    Does anyone know exactly what time Victor got home from his trip, it sounds like he came home earlier than expected, maybe when he walked in the house, Joe and Dylan were comitting the crime.

    • Bea
      05/31/2010 at 3:17 PM

      Victor arrived around 5:30 pm if I recall correctly and spoke with Joe by cell. Joe was leaving work to go to the gym. Victor was not supposed to arrive home until 11 – 12 (guess) but caught earlier flight.

    • Carolina
      05/31/2010 at 4:00 PM

      Welcome, btw, to the site. We don’t mind answering questions and please don’t hesitate, but the search feature will also help answer a lot of general questions without having to wait for someone to answer.

      Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

  28. Bea
    05/31/2010 at 4:25 PM

    New thought from reading Craig and other’s questions about dead bolts and double-keyed locks. As Joe’s interrogration transcripts makes clear, HE believes that the “intruder” could have exited the back gate door or even the front door. Is this a tell? If locked, they would require a key, presumably – DID the alleged “intruder” have that key?

    Consider that Michael may have been present (if only to remove certain articles, but possibly more) then of course he could ‘let himself out’ with his own key since Joe says all doors work with the same key.

    Which is it? That the doors REQUIRE a key or that they don’t, Joe? FYI, I have one door which requires a double key and thus I leave a key close by in case of fire.

  29. DonnaH
    06/01/2010 at 4:09 AM

    Another point regarding Michael’s possible coming & going, which was suggested by cinnamon on Day 9 wrap (9;07pm), was that Joe may have invented the “spider” story to cover for the possible trace of the door chime by the alarm company when Michael entered the house by the patio. (Elizabeth later confirmed in her post that her alarm company can tell exactly which windows or doors are opened, and when). We don’t know if the Swann house had a similar alarm system, but Joe might have thought it possible. It seems the best explanation for the “spider” story so far. And in fact, if the door was left open, Joe wouldn’t have heard the chime when he said he did, since the door would only chime upon opening. This would seem to be a glaring error in his story. The later chime that Victor thought he heard could have been Michael leaving.

    It would have been easy enough for Joe or Michael to make up some pretext for his appearance. Chilling to think that he actually might have even come in before Robert went upstairs. Alternatively, Joseph might have used the “spider” story at the time as a pretext to signal Michael.

    I’m so looking forward to seeing what the prosecution does with him.

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