Day 3: Updates

4:45pm: Adjournment update

Kirschner’s direct of ME Lois Goslinowski ended with him getting the testimony he may have wanted from her.  She said in 45 stabbing cases she’s done, Robert’s is the first where “there was no indication of movement in the torso or extremities.”

The ME’s finding also indicated 2000 milliliters of blood was recovered and measured in Robert’s body.  A healthy man of his size normally has 6000 ML.

Also, based on her findings, she still maintains that Robert was alive for “minutes” after the stabbing.

Leibovitz was about to adjourn and have the defense start the expected rigorous cross on Friday morning.  Price counsel Bernie Grimm was having none of that and volunteered to start right then and there.

If today is any indication, his cross of the ME will be aggressive, to say the very least.  Court is back in session tomorrow at 11:00am.

A full recap on today’s testimony will go up around 7:30pm this evening.   Earlier updates after the break.320pm: Update

The afternoon session started with second responding MPD patrol officer Gregory Alimein’s testimony. The upshot was he recalled entering 1509 Swann with the three defendants seated in the living room in robes.

He testified that Ward started talking, “We heard a chime…” until he was cut off by Price.  Alimein said Price shot Ward a glare, “with a stern look.  That’s when Ward stopped talking.”

To Alimein it appreared as if, “…a little kid got in trouble with mom or dad” who then took him to task.

On cross, Bernie Grimm and David Schertler hammered the officer on one simple point.    Why didn’t he report this “significant” event to anyone on homicide team, his partner or anyone else at the time.   Why not report it until three and a half years later?  Alimein didn’t seem to have a good reason.

Connolly’s cross was just to underscore that his client Zaborsky was, “sobbing uncontrollably” when Alimein was there.  A tight 30 second cross examination – taking Judge Leibovitz’ pleas for brevity very seriously it seems.

Just prior to the 315pm break, DC Deputy ME Lois Goslinoski took the stand. After a CV review of her extensive credentials, AUSA Glenn Kirschner offered her as an expert witness, a forensic pathologist.  She’s both a Wolverine and a Spartan. Go Teams!

The ME got as far as characterizing the needle puncture marks she found on Robert as either pre, post or early post-mortem.  More at adjournment.

1:40pm Update:

After the morning break, Kirschner on redirect tried to smooth out any dings that EMT Jeff Baker may have gotten from the triple defense cross.

Kirschner pressed him on the blood pattern, IV access points, whether Robert had a shirt on and his observations of the defendants.   Referring to the housemates, Baker maintained they were unresponsive.

They did not appear upset and generally didn’t say anything to him.   Baker was excused and seemed happy to be out of the box. “Tough crowd,” he quipped.  That was met with laughter.

At Noon, AUSA Patrick Martin began his direct with GWU ER nurse Leah Lujan.  When asked when she graduated from Georgetown Nursing School, she appeared a bit flustered by the weight of the moment, “I just had a brain-fart.”  The courtroom laughed, even causing Judge Liebowitz to break a smile.

Martin walked her through the typical procedures for a “Trauma Yellow” – the highest level of urgency.  She recalled patient Robert Wone.

When the EMT call came in, she prepared the trauma bay for his arrival.

A team of 6-8 ER docs, 1 nurse and 1 tech attended to him.  Lujan managed the charts and records as head nurse.  She documented all activities and procedures.  Asked about the night she said, “I recall vividly… (he was) very, very pale.”

She testified on the procedures of placing chest tubes, a breathing tube and groin tube and the CPR  being administered.  She was shown pictures of Robert and asked about the needle puncture marks on his ankle, foot and neck.

She said none of them would’ve placed by any ER staff.  Later, she said she had never seen any DC EMT place an IV in a patient’s ankle.  She said she recalled very little blood when he was brought in and while he was placed in the body bag.  “I took note that not a lot of blood was there…what I expected…”

At 12:35, Connolly’s associate Amy Richardson began her cross.  She asked Lujan if Robert had a CT scan to reveal any internal injuries.   “No” she said.  Schertler was next, asking if the MPD interviewed her; Lujan didn’t recall.  Richardson pressed her if at any point her view of the resuscitative efforts were obstructed.  It was possible.

Judge Leibovitz had questions of her own:  would Robert’s clothes he came in with have been charted?   Lujan said it would make her notes only if the clothes were cut off as part of procedures.  She asked if she could ID the needle puncture wounds.  “An ingrown hair,” she implied?  She couldn’t say.

Martin took a moment of redirect that yielded little.  Before the lunch break, Leibovitz admonished all attorneys to keep it moving.  “It’s just me deciding.. not them (pointing to the audience.)”  She noted that maybe a jury would
speculate, but she would not.  “We’ll be here all summer unless we focus.”

She gaveled out at 1:00pm and the trial reconvenes at 2:00pm after the lunch break.

11:35am Update

The morning session started with Joe Price counsel Bernie Grimm’s cross of Jeff Baker, first responder at 1509 Swann. Grimm worked hard to point out lapses in Baker’s memory and differences between his July 2008 grand jury testimony and today.

Grimm pressed him on whether he saw Robert in a shirt, if resuscitative compressions took place at the home, and Baker’s uncertainty about whether he saw striation marks on Robert’s chest or abdomen.

Grimm also asked about IV access points that may have been attempted by Baker’s partner, Ms. Weaver.  Baker again described it as a film, with towel marks.

Schertler went next and repeatedly questioned Baker on whether he saw a t-shirt.  Then, on the projector screen and from the government’s exhibit box, we all got our first look at Robert’s t-shirt.  It appeared to be cut open
down the front, and the backside almost completely stained with blood.

Baker remained firm; he did not recall seeing the shirt, his attention was on
Robert’s wounds alone.  However, Baker admitted memory errors at times and without  prompting said twice, “My radar was on, something was not right.  I was on alert.”

Schertler also pressed Baker on Ward’s alleged unresponsiveness, suggesting that Ward was just getting out of the way to allow Baker better access in the narrow hallway.

Baker said he saw no active bleeding from the chest wounds or around the scene.  Schertler next showed the sofa bed photo with the two blood stains.  Did Baker recall seeing the blood spots on the bed?  No.

A quick break until 11:40am and Zaborsky counsel Thomas Connolly will begin his cross.  Next update at lunch break around 115pm.

8:00am Update

After a one day break, the trial resumes at 9:45this morning in room 310 of the Moultrie Courthouse.

The Court PIO is still taking media RSVPs, so that may be ann indication a crowd is still expected.  It’s uncertain if an overflow room with the audio feed will be set up today.

We expect first responding EMT Jeff Baker to continue his testimony this morning with AUSA Glenn Kirschner.  Depending how things progress, maybe cross with the defense team this afternoon.

Let’s Make A Deal: The subject of last minute, back room deals has come up from time to time, .  Someone who knows how these things work, recently shared his opinion on the choreography of how a deal could be struck in this case:

“I assume Kirschner would only cut a deal based on the revelation of the murderer.

At this stage, the defense would approach the prosecution but I don’t expect this would happen.   All of this would be based on an off-the-record debriefing first, followed by the deal being agreed upon.

If this was to happen, there would be no deal without the government hearing directly from one (or all of the defendants) first.  I believe Kirschner would be receptive to a deal if they could solve the murder.”

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145 comments for “Day 3: Updates

  1. CDinDC
    05/20/2010 at 12:04 PM

    ” we all got our first look at Robert’s t-shirt. It appeared to be cut open down the front, and the backside almost completely stained with blood.”

    Eds, please elaborate on this when you can.

    The BACKSIDE of the t-shirt was “almost completely stained with blood?”

    I’m totally confused by ths.

    • Lyn
      05/20/2010 at 12:26 PM

      Interesting. Assuming that there were in fact only two small circles of blood found on the bed, why didn’t blood from the back of Wone’s shirt transfer to the sheets?

      • Carolina
        05/20/2010 at 12:48 PM

        This will be interesting and raises a lot of questions.

        How did it get on the back and not the front?

        Why wasn’t it on the sheets?

        Did the location of the blood prompt Joe to say Robert had been stabbed in the back?

        Are the holes in the shirt front, or in the back?

        • mia
          05/20/2010 at 6:26 PM

          Did the location of the blood prompt Joe to say Robert had been stabbed in the back?

          ———I have this in mind too.

      • Carolina
        05/20/2010 at 12:48 PM

        That must have been one amazingly absorbent tee shirt.

    • Craig
      05/20/2010 at 1:55 PM

      RE: T-shirt. As best we could tell, the front was cut, but neither EMT Baker nor Nurse Lujan said the did the cut. It appeared that we saw rhe back of the shirt, no W&M logo imprint was visible. Again, unclear, but it looked like the back of the shirt was stained completely.

      If the front was cut open and pulled away from Robert’s chest by the time the EMT arrived, that may explain why Baker did not recall seeing a shirt on RObert – if it was cut and pulled back or to the sides.

      Also curious, since the shirt was blood soaked, why did it not leave any marks or stains on the bed. Again we saw a photo of the sofa bed, only the two 5-6 inch spots were visible.

    • Also From the Post Story
      05/20/2010 at 4:23 PM

      How long was the shirt left on him? Maybe a lot of blood came out in the ambulance? At the hospital? Remember they found well over a liter of internal blood.

  2. TT
    05/20/2010 at 12:46 PM

    Because they changed the sheets.

    • Carolina
      05/20/2010 at 12:52 PM

      If they did, where did the bloody sheets go? And the towels that Joe was using?

      I’m very interested in hearing what the defense says happened. Instead of Kennedy’s Magic Bullet, we seem to have Magic Shirts & Linens. Imagine Victor doing marketing for the cotton industry. “You can bleed to death in this shirt and never stain the sheets!”

      • Lee
        05/20/2010 at 2:03 PM

        I like that. Very funny.

      • Anon. in Arlington
        05/20/2010 at 2:11 PM

        Traces of blood were found on the clothes dryer lint screen. We do not know yet if the dryer was still warm when detectives started searching the house.

      • mia
        05/20/2010 at 6:41 PM

        If I remember correctly, they had some sort of leaking (pipe) problem that very night. Image they could have burned the sheet and then flushed it away from toilet.

  3. Pepa
    05/20/2010 at 1:29 PM

    Pepa: Hola. Soy la madre del famoso asesino de Cuatro Caminos. Cuando mi hijo vuelve a casa después de cometer uno de sus famosísimos crímenes, ¡me trae la ropa que es una pena! (muestra la camisa blanca llena de sangre).

    Tocan a la puerta, abre y entran dos policías.

    Pepa: ¿Qué?

    Policía 1: ¿Dónde está la ropa que llevaba su hijo anoche?

    Policía 2: En el momento del crimen.

    Pepa: Pues aquí está. Mire que hermosura.

    Policías huelen la camisa.

    Policía 1: Ni rastro de sangre.

    Policía 2: Ni de vísceras.

    Policía 1: Parece mentira.

    Pepa (muestra detergente a cámara): Ecce Omo. Parece mentira.

    • des
      05/20/2010 at 1:47 PM

      si’ que parece mentira…

      • TT
        05/20/2010 at 2:09 PM

        Des, can you translate Pepa’s post? Thanks.

        • CDinDC
          05/20/2010 at 2:19 PM

          It’s a scene from “Women on teh Verge of a Nervous Breakdown”, which is an Almodovar film. I must add this to my Netflicks list. :>

        • anon
          05/20/2010 at 2:24 PM

          Pepa didn’t seem to have much trouble posting in English before. Come on, P, we all want in on the post!

          • TT
            05/20/2010 at 2:28 PM

            And what would be the significance of this movie?

            • CDinDC
              05/20/2010 at 2:50 PM

              I haven’t seen the movie in years, but I recall a scene where a woman that claims to be the mother of a serial killer is washing her son’s blood stained clothing. And the detergent she uses cleans the clothing so well the police officers can’t tell they ever had blood on them.

              Keep in mind that the movie is a black comedy.

              • CDinDC
                05/20/2010 at 2:51 PM

                Oh…the scene is a commercial for the detergent.

          • Pepa
            05/20/2010 at 2:54 PM

            Because you asked so nicely.

            Pepa: “Hello. I’m the mother of the famous Cuatro Caminos killer. When my son returns from one of his notorious crimes, he brings me his clothes, which are a mess!”

            Pepa: “What do you want?”

            Policeman 1: “Where are the clothes your son was wearing last night?”

            Policeman 2: “At the time of the crime!”

            Pepa: Well, HERE they are. Beautiful, huh?

            Policeman 1: Not even a trace of blood.

            Policeman 2: Or remains.

            Policeman 1: Unbelievable!

            Pepa: “Ecce Homo (the name of the detergent brand). Unbelievable!”

            The absence of blood: It seems a lie.

            • CDinDC
              05/20/2010 at 3:05 PM

              Now I know where “Pepa” comes from!

              A little comic relief from the heaviness of this tragic event.

              Thanks Pepa.

  4. Cecily
    05/20/2010 at 1:48 PM

    If the police suspect the defendants cleaned the body and we all assume there must have been a lot of blood, did they have the morgue or hospital drain all the remaining blood from Robert’s body and weigh it? I would think that if he lost many liters of blood and the defendants cleaned that up wouldn’t you be able to test for loss (missing) blood?

    • Bill Orange
      05/20/2010 at 2:13 PM

      The autopsy reported about 1 liter of internal bleeding (about 20% of his estimated blood volume). There may be more blood that was drained from the chest tubes in the ER–this would be on the hospital chart, not the autopsy report. But I have no idea exactly how much of your total blood volume you lose when you bleed to death, so I can’t see if there’s a lot of blood “missing” or not.

      • Cecily
        05/20/2010 at 3:01 PM

        Thanks for the response that was helpful.

  5. Steve
    05/20/2010 at 3:35 PM

    Will the trial continue tomorrow? what time?

  6. dcbill
    05/20/2010 at 3:36 PM

    It’s a little off track, but does any know: If these guys go to prison, would they all go to the same place? I can’t imagine a friendly reception from other prisoners if it is known that they are suspected of having raped and killed a straight man. Based on the 911 call, I have a hard time even imagining how someone like Victor Zaborsky would cope with the brutality of prison life. It just boggles my mind that no one has copped a plea. A conviction on at least one of the counts seems certain, given the prosecution’s evidence.

    • Lee
      05/20/2010 at 4:52 PM

      I agree that Victor would not be able to cope with prison. I think that Joe would thrive in the prison atmosphere. My hope (and, I believe, the hope of the prosecution team) is that if the trouple are convinced, one of them (most likely Victor) will crack and tell the story of what really occurred that night.

      I also think that Victor is the most likely candidate for cracking, because I think Victor was not involved in the killing.

      • Newbie
        05/20/2010 at 5:28 PM

        Jail…all the BDSM you desire….and then some!

    • CC Biggs
      05/20/2010 at 6:55 PM

      Your post suggests that coppping a plea would somehow avoid jail time. It wouldn’t.

  7. Steve
    05/20/2010 at 3:56 PM

    Does anyone know if the trial will continue tomorrow?

  8. Cecily
    05/20/2010 at 3:57 PM

    I had wondered what kind of prison they would go to. If it is minimum security than this trial is for nothing. But, if they go to a max prison than I can see one cracking under the strain. I can’t answer your question, but I can’t imagine they would get to be cell mates.

  9. Daphne
    05/20/2010 at 3:58 PM

    Why didn’t the prosecution use the testimony of Off Diane Durham? Was there some sort of problem with it?

  10. cjh78
    05/20/2010 at 4:19 PM

    Wow! I find it explosive that MPD Alimein testified that Ward said he heard a chime, which caused Price to give Ward a scornful look.

    Someone didn’t stick to their script!

    • Daphne
      05/20/2010 at 4:35 PM

      Yeah, but it is a problem if Alimein never mentioned it to anybody at the time or at least before today.

      • Lee
        05/20/2010 at 4:55 PM

        Do you think it’s a big problem if it wasn’t mentioned before? How serious would that be?

        • Daphne
          05/20/2010 at 4:59 PM

          It’s not fatal, but if I were the defense atty (which I used to be), I’d emphasize that if such a thing really happened, it was important enough that the po should have mentioned it. The officer’s overall demeanor will decide it: ie, does he seem credible, does he seem like he has an axe to grind, is he somehow personally invested in the outcome of the case.

          • Lee
            05/20/2010 at 5:05 PM


  11. Cali
    05/20/2010 at 4:21 PM

    Is Joe’s brother going to testify? Does he have an alibi for the night?

    • Carolina
      05/20/2010 at 7:49 PM

      How airtight can the alibi of a drug addict be, especially if it’s provided by his lover?

  12. TT
    05/20/2010 at 4:24 PM

    If I remember correctly Michael, Joe’s brother, has an alibi from his former partner. Guys, help me out if I am wrong.

    • interestedobserver
      05/20/2010 at 5:00 PM

      TT, I believe that is correct. I seem to recall that Michael Price’s former? partner apparently wrote something in his diary about Michael that night.

      According to the prosecution’s opening, Michael Price’s former? partner is going to testify that he falsely reported to the police that Michael had stolen his car in order to get Michael “off the street” after the burglary of his brother’s house. Maybe we’ll hear more about whether Michael really had an alibi for that night…

      • Lee
        05/20/2010 at 5:10 PM

        Unless one of the trouple is going to testify, how is anything about Michael Price relevant? Is the prosecution going to try to implicate him as somehow involved in the obstruction? I don’t think so.

        I can’t see how Michael gets pulled into this unless one of the defendants takes the stand.

        • Bill Orange
          05/20/2010 at 6:34 PM

          Michael Price broke into the house on Swann Street in the months after the murder, and the defendants took their time (two days, I think) in reporting the break-in to the police. The prosecution has said it plans to introduce the break-in and the delay in reporting to show that the defendants have a tendency to not report serious crimes in a timely manner.

      • Doug
        05/20/2010 at 5:12 PM

        Michael Price’s former partner, Louis Hinton, has said that Michael was with him the night of the murder. More details here. -Doug, co-editor

        • cjh78
          05/20/2010 at 6:27 PM

          Does anyone know why Michael Price was taking a phlebotomy course? Was he training to become a nurse? It seems to be an odd course to take for leisure purposes.

          The fact that he never missed a class, except for August 2, 2006, seems troubling in light of what took place later that night.

          • Carolina
            05/20/2010 at 7:52 PM

            I want to know who in their right mind would hire a reformed (and not so reformed, at that) drug addict in a medical setting.

            • AnnaZed
              05/20/2010 at 7:58 PM

              Indeed, given that he was on probation it’s probably your tax dollars at work as well.

  13. CDinDC
    05/20/2010 at 5:07 PM

    “Price counsel Bernie Grimm was having none of that and volunteered to start right then and there.”

    I take that the Judge nixed his offer. He’s got stones.

    • Lee
      05/20/2010 at 5:13 PM

      Start right there and then about what? Sorry, somehow I missed the context of your post.

      • CDinDC
        05/20/2010 at 5:22 PM

        Lee, the quote is from the “4:45pm: Adjournment update” above. The judge was calling it quits for the day. “Price counsel Bernie Grimm was having none of that and volunteered to start right then and there.”

        • Lee
          05/20/2010 at 5:31 PM

          Thanks, CD.

    • dcbill
      05/20/2010 at 5:13 PM

      He may have stones, but I bet he has a hard time floating alternative ideas about where the missing 4,000 ML of blood ended up.

      • Also from the Post Story
        05/20/2010 at 8:15 PM

        How clear or unclear is it that Robert died of the stab wounds? Because a new theory occurred to me. Suppose their Plan A was to dispose of the body, but before putting it in a car they wanted to drain it of blood — and made the stab wounds to the heart and vitals *for this purpose*. And then let the body drain out in the shower (or the courtyard). Four liters is a lot.

        Does this make sense?

        • MotherOfInvention
          05/20/2010 at 8:32 PM

          Dr. Goslinoski insists Robert was alive when stabbed.

    • Bill Orange
      05/20/2010 at 6:36 PM

      Maybe Kim will think otherwise, but I think Bernie Grimm did exactly what he should have done here–as a defense attorney, I can’t imagine that you’d want to end the day without starting to cross-examine such a critical witness.

      • Hoya Loya
        05/20/2010 at 7:22 PM

        I disagree — in a jury trial absolutely — you don’t want the jury going home thinking the witness is on the money, you want to leave them with some doubt.

        But Judge Liebovitz has already decided that the ME is an expert and no doubt has decided that she is qualified and credible or not. Unless the ME falls apart under a lengthy, continuous cross, the defense experts will be ultimately more important in shedding doubt on her testimony. The judge knows why Bernie wanted to go forward, strategy-wise, and will weigh that in her evaluation of those few answers. She was signalling she wanted to wrap for the day and he pushed back. Those few questions will have less impact than if he asked them in front of a refreshed judge in the a.m.

        I encourage everyone to read Themis’s bench trial strategy articles if you haven’t already. Bernie’s jury trial roots are showing here.

        Feel free to disagree with me — for me, the defense strategy is the most intriguing aspect of this trial. The prosecution pretty much has a road map of where it needs to go to prove conspiracy — the defense has many more interesting strategy calls to make and they are worth debating.

    • srb
      05/20/2010 at 9:05 PM

      One strategic reason for starting the cross of a witness at the end of the day, instead of waiting until the next morning, is the generally accepted rule/practice that the attorneys who called the witness cannot talk to him/her once cross has begun. So, now that Grimm has started his cross, the prosecution cannot take the evening/night to prep the ME for the defense’s cross-examination. The prosecution probably was counting on the Judge adjourning for the day once the direct of the ME was finished.

      • Hoya Loya
        05/21/2010 at 9:02 AM

        Good point. Then again, after a successful direct with no cross, the ME might have gone home confident that she was doing well and been blindsided by the strength of Bernie’s blistering cross in the morning.

        Bernie tipped his hand. Now she’s had a sneak peak at what’s in store and even without contact with the government I’m sure she boned up on her reports and testimony last night to be more prepared for the remaining cross today.

  14. CDinDC
    05/20/2010 at 5:10 PM

    “The ME’s finding also indicated 2000 milliliters of blood was recovered and measured in Robert’s body. A healthy man of his size normally has 6000 ML.”

    This disturbed me. Terribly. Poor Robert.

    I will once again return to my theory that he was stabbed in the bathtub.

    • Cecily
      05/20/2010 at 5:32 PM

      Yes, that answers my question we now know that approx 4000 ML of blood is missing. Amazing. And what a coincidence Micheal’s former partner wrote in his diary that night about him being there. I wouldn’t believe that for a second, unless he can prove that he regularly jotted down things like that every night.

      • Carolina
        05/20/2010 at 7:55 PM

        I would remain hard pressed to believe it unless the diary had been taken into evidence that night or the following day.

    • TK
      05/20/2010 at 6:24 PM

      Or a whole lot of linens mysteriously disappeared. I’m with you, CD, poor Robert, he lived for minutes, probably paralyzed or restrained somehow. And only he knows who he saw with that knife.

      It makes me sad for Robert and of course Kathy, but I must admit, after almost 4 years with things happening so fast, I cannot get enough of the posts from our stalwart WMRW reporters. It’s like a Law&Order episode but drawn out like Lost. But will we get answers?

      • Carolina
        05/20/2010 at 7:56 PM

        No answers, but maybe polar bears!

  15. PW
    05/20/2010 at 5:13 PM

    4000 ML of blood, just gone? No way between the “chime” and finding him in the bed dead did the “intruder” have time to siphon off all that blood. Where did it go? They can’t hide behind the ‘we don’t know what the heck happened’ with all this evidence can they.. I mean, really? The are all “professionals” but to think that everyone else is so naive is kinda dumb.

    • CDinDC
      05/20/2010 at 5:25 PM

      Maybe the “intruder” was a vampire.

      • Lee
        05/20/2010 at 5:30 PM

        I think you’ve got it! A vampire could explain everything.

    • Bill
      05/20/2010 at 5:39 PM

      Okay – but where did all of the blood go? Certainly the police and crime lab checked all sinks and disposals. It doesn’t make sense. Also, the timeline seems far too compressed. The entire thing would have to have been completely scripted beforehand and carried out exactly. It doesn’t add up.

      • Nyer
        05/20/2010 at 5:46 PM

        I believe the police dog brought in detected existence of blood on the dryer’s lint filter, and more importantly, the patio drain. This drain may have been where the blood went.

        • Bill
          05/20/2010 at 6:10 PM

          But the logic falls apart. They were drying towels that had blood on them? They were washing towels outside with blood on them? Why not wash them inside? It doesn’t add up.

          • AnnaZed
            05/20/2010 at 6:51 PM

            I don’t think they did either of those things.

            I think that a lot of towels and linens (and with them the volume of Robert’s blood that is unaccounted for), some hypodermic needles, a knife, some sex toys, maybe some drugs and anything else potentially covered with incriminating DNA was taken away not by a stealthy intruder (elf) but by a person known to the trouple who participated in this crime.

            I think that Robert was either murdered or washed down in the bathroom and that somebody’s T-shirt or robe or something that didn’t make it out with the other evidence was maybe spot cleaned and tossed in the dryer. Someone was tasked with handing off the stuff to another person tasked with getting the stuff out of there. This second person just took the stuff and went out the back gate. The first person then washed their hands, maybe even more of themselves in the back yard hose (hence the need for all three to tell the steaks and grill fire story to explain the wet patio, even though no one had even asked).

            John G likes Sarah M in this role; I’m more inclined to wonder about Michael P who (after all) has these points to recommend him for this role: (1.) he had keys and the alarm code, (2.) he is a serious drug abuser, (3.) he missed his phlebotomy class that night (seriously, you can’t make this shit up, who would believe it ~ you read that right ~ a phlebotomy class, that’s the science and art of drawing blood), (4.) he embarked on the mother of all drug abuse relapse benders right after Robert’s murder (that night, the next day ~ I don’t know) according to his former partner Louis Hinton (5.) and lastly he felt compelled to burgle the Swann St residence along with one of his drug abusing pals (a convicted animal abusing creep named Phelps Collins) not three months after Robert was killed there using his keys and knowledge of the alarm codes. Oh, and Joe and company delayed reporting this burglary to the police for days and ultimately declined to prosecute either Michael Price or Phelps Collins for burgling them.

            • jfh
              05/20/2010 at 9:06 PM

              if that’s your theory, did anyone subpoena any of their phone records? bc wouldn’t it show calls needed to be made in order to get this all done.

              • AnnaZed
                05/20/2010 at 9:08 PM

                Not if one’s little helper pal was already there when Robert arrived. We have only the three men’s word that they were alone in the house.

        • ramknts
          05/20/2010 at 6:32 PM

          At first, I was skeptical about the suspects using the washer/dryer to clean up evidence, especially if they needed to carry blood sheets and towels upstairs and downstairs. What I didn’t know at the time, though, is that the washer/dryer combined unit were in the bathroom across the den from the guest bedroom and sharing a wall with Mr. Ward’s bedroom. The water on the bathroom floor could have been from the shower or the washer overflowing. Do we know if the washer drained to the outdoor plumbing drain? From the drawing below, it does not even show a bathtub or shower in that bathroom. I’m assuming it wasn’t a half-bath, but did it only have a shower?

          • Bill
            05/20/2010 at 6:54 PM

            The graphics are awesome! So your theory is that he was stabbed while showering, then sexually manipulated thereafter? What followed is that Wone was “cleaned up” and then carried to the guest room bed?

            • ramknts
              05/20/2010 at 8:46 PM

              I definitely do not think Mr. Ward was stabbed while showering. He would have fought back and had injuries from doing so or would have made more noise. I agree with the ME’s analysis that Mr. Ward was mostly unresponsive at the time of the stabbing, unless he agreed to it as a form of sadomasochistic play (, which may seem appropriate for one of the defendants but not for Mr. Wone.

              From what I have read, conjunctival petechial hemorrhage would have occurred prior to the stab wound to his heart. These hemorrhages can result from asphyxiation, but this is unlikely the cause of death given Mr. Wone’s carboxyhemoglobin levels, intact hyoid bone, and lack of chest or neck injury. His airway could have been limited periodically, though, if someone were trying to stop him from making noise. In addition, they could be signs of vomiting, sexual activity, or extended straining.

              Also, regarding autopsy findings, it is highly unlikely Mr. Wone’s semen was released upon death, and if it was, it would not have made it into his anum on its own.

              Your guess is as good as mine given these findings.

              • ramknts
                05/20/2010 at 8:50 PM

                Also, I apparently created a new anatomical term by combined “rectum” and “anus”!

    • Carolina
      05/20/2010 at 7:58 PM

      I fear that is the downfall of many a good man– overestimating their ability to sell swampland to a gator.

  16. Nelly N. Drew
    05/20/2010 at 5:52 PM

    Add me to the list of speculators who think Wone was stabbed in the bath tub. I think the presence of semen in his nether regions was due to the fact that someone manipulated his genitals while he was lying on his back in the tub. I think they rinsed off the blood and semen with the shower nozzle spraying the front half of his body. Although when he was still wet it appeared they had removed all the semen, traces of it remained hidden in the contours of his body, so to speak, where it was found later.

    Someone on a recent thread opined that Wone never showered himself. I believe this is true. It’s another suspicious aspect of their testimony that they all seemed fixed on planting the idea that Wone took a shower before retiring. They must have realized that it would be obvious to investigators that the body was in a freshly showered state, therefore the collective alibi would have to incorporate a shower.

    • To Fair and Balanced Reporting
      05/20/2010 at 7:33 PM

      Just adding this to the mix.

      The semen finding has been reported fairly sensationally in a couple of media accounts, and there continue to be a number of mentions of it here in the reader comments. The finding of semen in the decedent’s own ‘nether regions’ has not gone uncountered by the defense.

      In the 03.03.10 WMRW entry entitled “Uncharged Conduct: Defense Response”, the defense pointed out that post-mortem seminal secretions are a commonly observed phenomenon in forensic pathology.

      Editor David’s entry further noted that this defense argument may be blunted by the lack of seminal fluid on the decedent’s underwear, where it might also have been expected to be found. At any rate, test results of the underwear did not mention any such finding.

      At any rate, the semen finding may not be as clearcut a slam-dunk finding as people think when they read it in a sensational media report outlining the prosecution’s theory uncountered.

      I think that is one of the particular values of this site–that even if there is an editorial perspective, unlike the mainstream media, they do generally make a very reasonable presentation of both sides of pretty much every point.

      • Carolina
        05/20/2010 at 8:03 PM

        And also to be fair, there’s but a single report of “semen like fluids” being found in the rectums of dead men. Not semen, mind you.

        I don’t think anyone here thinks Robert was wearing underwear when it happened. Assuming one subscribes to the idea that Robert either met his end or was washed post mortem in the shower, it would be hard to explain why he showered in his boxers or briefs.

        • To Fair and Balanced Reporting
          05/20/2010 at 8:33 PM

          Not sure I follow your first point–are you referring to a single report in this case?

          The defense’s response said:

          “Indeed, it is well documented in forensic pathology literature that seminal fluid and urine are commonly secreted by men as part of the postmortem process: “muscle relaxation immediately after death explains the finding of leaking out of urine or seminal fluid…”

          …”well documented” presumably referring to more than a single report in forensic pathology literature.

          • MotherOfInvention
            05/20/2010 at 8:43 PM

            Secreting may be well-documented, but semen or seminal fluid being found in the rectum? Not so much, I suspect.

          • Carolina
            05/20/2010 at 9:14 PM

            I hope someone challenges them on their “well documented” leaks in the rectum. I suspect they’ll be able to pull… well, the one they initially quoted.

  17. KV
    05/20/2010 at 6:18 PM

    This is off the point but given the unsavory description by many of Joe Price’s persona, what was his allure that prompted Robert to maintain a friendship with him? Any insights into what made them click?

    • Bill
      05/20/2010 at 6:22 PM

      Great question. Was there a romantic involvement?

      • CDinDC
        05/20/2010 at 7:52 PM

        Oh Bill.

    • Bill Orange
      05/20/2010 at 6:48 PM

      When he was at William & Mary, Joe Price did a lot of work in student government, and I think that that particular social scene tends to attract a lot of fairly idealistic people. Robert Wone is consistently described as one of the nicest people in the world. I would say the same thing about Lisa Goddard, the woman that Joe called to pick them up at the police station. I really don’t have a good theory as to how the three of them became such good friends, other than the fact they all spent a lot of time together in college, and you tend to become close friends with the people you spend a lot of time with.

      • steve
        05/20/2010 at 7:08 PM

        I am so tired of all the speculation of a romantic involvement. Gay and straight people can be good friends and nothing more, and not all straight people who are good friends with gay people are leading double lives.

        • Bill
          05/20/2010 at 7:15 PM

          The question isn’t that there was something questionable about a straight man having a relationship (non-sexual) with a gay man — of course, these are realities. The issue was as the poster stated: “given the unsavory description by many of Joe Price’s persona, what was his allure that prompted Robert to maintain a friendship with him? Any insights into what made them click?”

          It is worthy reflection.

          • CDinDC
            05/20/2010 at 7:53 PM

            It’s been reflected on ad nauseum.

            • Bill
              05/20/2010 at 8:06 PM

              Maybe for you, but you are going to allow those newer to these post to ask questions, correct?

              • CDinDC
                05/20/2010 at 8:26 PM

                Oh Bill.

                Didn’t I just say that?

                • Bill
                  05/20/2010 at 9:19 PM

                  Frankly, no you didn’t! You said: “It’s been reflected on ad nauseam.”

                  Lighten up and let people participate, please.

                  • CDinDC
                    05/20/2010 at 9:40 PM

                    “Oh Bill” was what I was saying I just said.

                    I was trying to joke around with you, but I guess you don’t want that.

                    Do as you please. I have no power here. 🙂

              • Carolina
                05/20/2010 at 9:16 PM

                Perhaps reading just a bit of the “ad nauseum” would be preferable. Just a thought.

            • KV
              05/20/2010 at 8:07 PM

              My only point is that Price sounds like such a creep not to mention creepy. Why would anyone as nice as the decedent even want to be around Price and company. Just one more piece of the puzzle it seems.

              • Also from the Post Story
                05/20/2010 at 8:38 PM

                Well they may seem like creeps NOW, but look at what we’ve been reading! This stuff was hardly evident beforehand.

                • prtyboydc
                  05/21/2010 at 12:35 AM

                  Joe, Dylan and Victor to friends and acquaintances were nearly model gay citizens. Victor and Joe were highly successful, charitable and active in gay issues and politics. Dylan also fit well within the parameters of a normal gay man–one who had tremendous potential but was somewhat lost. None exhibited behavior that was lurid or out of step with that of many other successful gay men. Those that knew of the three-way relationship also would not have found it odd. Many of my friends have had–at one point or another–a three way romantic relationship. Further, while I agree that the level of BDSM behavior that it now appears Joe and Dylan were into is extreme, BDSM is not considered universally abnormal in the gay community. In fact, it’s quite accepted. That’s why it is so hard imagine these three men committing this awful crime. Intellectually, I have a hard time thinking they didn’t do it. But on an emotional and psychological level, I am really conflicted. Even though the three way relationship, the drug use and BDSM interests seem way out of the mainstream to most, it is not that abnormal to find in some segments of the gay community and it certainly doesn’t portend that those who have those interests are bad people.

          • TT
            05/20/2010 at 8:58 PM

            Please, Robert Wone is the victim here. The defendents, if not guilty of the crime, are…I do not want to define. Leave Robert out of this!

    • Carolina
      05/20/2010 at 8:05 PM

      I doubt Robert spent enough time with Joe to see more than the mask he wore. And I don’t mean the rubber one with piss tube attached.

      • CDinDC
        05/20/2010 at 8:20 PM

        Priceless. (Pardon the pun.)

      • TT
        05/20/2010 at 8:59 PM


    • AnnaZed
      05/20/2010 at 8:56 PM

      I think the key to this whole debacle is drug abuse. Joe may have been a blow hard and something of a narcissist in College, but narcissists can be very charming and Robert was not the only nice person who liked him. Over the years and as Joe’s drug and alcohol abuse escalated he changed, but Robert didn’t know that.

      • Carolina
        05/20/2010 at 9:27 PM

        Don’t forget what a drug ego can be. The more successful he is, the more he could manipulate, the more he was sure he was smarter than anyone who might try to trip him up.

        • prtyboydc
          05/21/2010 at 12:52 AM

          All of that may be true, but no one has yet offered why Joe would want to hurt, much less kill, Robert. I can see how he would be protecting someone else–especially his brother–but Joe’s platonic affection for Robert seems genuine. I am perplexed that no where have we seen evidence that Joe was upset or despondent over the death of Robert. Further, if Joe, et al, were intent on committing such heinous acts for some sort of sexual thrill, why would Joe choose (or let someone else choose) Robert? There are plenty of outlets through which willing participants for hard core sex can be recruited. If we assume this was all for some kinky, perverted thrill, why not find a stranger? Also, it seems to me that this behavior would be the culmination of a gradual escalation of a pattern of increasingly demented behavior over time. If so, it seems there would be other people who may have participated in those scenes that know something that would shed light on this case.

          • John Grisham
            05/21/2010 at 1:01 AM

            Perhaps fantasizing having sex with Robert was a common bond between Joe and Dylan (with different motivations). Especially while they were tripping. I doubt they ever intended to murder him. Only render him unconscious and secretly have their way with him.

  18. Bea
    05/20/2010 at 6:39 PM

    I think the “missing” blood equals just over a gallon (for those of us in the US). In a sense I am loathe to say this, because it is so crass in context of a man’s murder, but if you’ve ever dropped a QUART of juice or milk (never mind FOUR quarts), this is hardly a quick clean-up – invariably I have been surprised later at what I “missed” in the clean-up. I won’t elaborate, but I’m sure I’m not alone in this experience.

    I agree that it seems quite likely that the stabbing took place in the shower AND even then that a considerable effort was required to clean walls/floors/bed necessitated by moving Mr. Wone’s body to the spare bedroom (thus the ‘positive’ Ashley’s Reagent).

    The testimony that Price shut up Ward with a stern look as he tripped up the ‘story’ of hearing chimes is chilling – and damning. It’s quite reminiscent of Price barking at Zaborsky “he’s our friend, isn’t he Victor?” as Zaborsky sobbed.

    By all accounts, Judge Leibovitz is a bright woman. She’s undoubtedly seen her share of manipulators – and more cold-blooded killers than all of us together.

    I wonder if any of this is truly sinking in with the defendants or if they are rationalizing that it “wasn’t that bad” – and is there not one of them who disagrees? Not one of them headed for a night of sleeplessness? No vacant stares in the mirror wondering just who that is staring back?

    • cjh78
      05/20/2010 at 6:51 PM

      Bea, all great points!

      Does anyone know when Victor’s original flight was supposed to land in the DC area from Denver? Was it later that night or the next day?

      • Bea
        05/20/2010 at 7:46 PM

        Hi cjh, I checked the flights from Denver to Washington Dulles that day and worked from his arrival time to determine the most likely airline. Assuming he caught an earlier flight on the same airline he was (later) scheduled on, then his flight arrival was likely in the 11 pm range (if memory serves – tho there was an 8 or 9ish one – just assumed from comments that it was scheduled to arrive ‘very late’ from Joe that the 11 pm one was more likely). Lots of variables in there, but I did pull the schedule for that exact date in 2006.

    • Bill Orange
      05/20/2010 at 7:04 PM

      “By all accounts, Judge Leibovitz is a bright woman. She’s undoubtedly seen her share of manipulators – and more cold-blooded killers than all of us together.”

      I really hope you’re right. But keep in mind that Joe Price is/was friends with several very bright, very good people like Robert Wone. If we assume that he really is a cold-blooded killer, then he’s obviously one who’s very good at fooling people.

      • Bea
        05/20/2010 at 7:52 PM

        Obviously I don’t know whether Joe is a cold-blooded killer or not, but my point is that Judge Leibovitz is a lot more likely than I am to know based on her experience and, more importantly, based on her hearing all the (exact) evidence in this case, to render the right verdict in this case.

        Too, even if a killer (or would-be killer) could fool people out of context, I don’t know that the same person could fool an experienced judge in the setting of a trial – granted, the defendants are not on trial for murder, but I’m putting my money on Judge Leibovitz to be able to make the guilty/not guilty call here.

    • 05/20/2010 at 7:09 PM

      The incompetent medical examiner’s autopsy report said Wone weighed 152 pounds post mortem, making his pre-mortem weight 161 pounds if a gallon of blood was “missing.”

      1 quart = 1.057 liters
      1 liter of blood weighs 2.32 pounds
      4 quarts (one gallon) of blood weighs 9.8 pounds
      Wone was not obese.

      The under-qualifed medical examiner failed in every possible respect. I don’t believe anything she opined or concluded in the MPD’s malicious casework.

      I used to think Wone was killed in the shower but the FBI lab found NO blood or cleaners in any of the shower drains, plumbing or u-traps. It was a motiveless, sudden, unexpected, stunningly forceful stabbing, perhaps by an intruder, perhaps by a zombie.

      • AnnaZed
        05/20/2010 at 7:19 PM

        I always get this sick sort of throwing up in my mouth a little feeling when I read Ben’s mantra (repeated word for word on this site literally hundreds of times) “…sudden, unexpected, stunningly forceful stabbing…” I think that he gets a sexual charge out of repeating it over and over again, ick.

        • Bea
          05/20/2010 at 8:08 PM

          Agree, AZ. Since Ben no longer thinks that Robert was stabbed in the shower, wonder if he thinks the zombie drank the blood. And if so, does that make him Team Edward or Team Jacob?
          My pre-teen niece is into Twilight too, but even she can see that Dylan is not “buff”.

          Still, I imagine Ben’s bedroom wall covered with posters of Dyl striking a Twilight pose, perhaps a cardboard cut-out to pose alongside, all made at Kinko’s from those never seen photos he had ‘a friend’ take in DC (later eaten by a download cable, was it?). Ben says he is Team Joe but I think you’re right.

        • Carolina
          05/20/2010 at 8:10 PM

          He’s seen Oliver Stone’s JFK one too many times. He wants his phrase to be the new “Back, and to the side. Back… and to the side.”

      • CDinDC
        05/20/2010 at 7:58 PM

        Ben Franklin says: “Wone was not obese.”

        He finally got something right.

        • Carolina
          05/20/2010 at 8:13 PM

          4/118 words.

          .034 isn’t much of a batting average, is it?

    • Hoya Loya
      05/21/2010 at 9:11 AM


      Doesn’t the “Isn’t he our friend?” reminder, and the context in which it was said take on a new significance given the defense’s argument that the trouple couldn’t possibly have killed Robert because he was their friend? Doesn’t that now look like that was an essential element of the story from the get-go?

      A question for those more conspiracy-minded posters who theorize that the events of August 2 were pre-planned:

      Could Robert have been chosen as a victim specifically because they thought nobody would suspect that his friends would have harmed him?

      • Bea
        05/21/2010 at 4:43 PM

        Chilling. And thinking Victor was out of town makes it more logical. That involved a workaround, and, then if indeed he screamed and messed up the “plan” (whatever it was) then Victor certainly got a quick lecture. “Isn’t he our friend, Victor?” indeed.

  19. mia
    05/20/2010 at 6:55 PM

    Could someone tell me how did the three find Wone was attached? They heard a noise or something? The neighbor said they heard a scream that night when watching TV but was learned it was Victor Zaborsky later. How could they (or the police) know for sure it was him but not Wone?
    My understanding is, since it shows no defensive wounds on Wone’s body, it is highly possible that Wone was incapacitated when he was attached. So back to the question, how the three found out he was attached? If he’s unconscious at that time, it’s unlikely he would make any noise loud enough to attract their attention. That to be said, I assume they don’t have the habit to sneak into their guests’ room during midnight.

    • AnnaZed
      05/20/2010 at 7:03 PM

      attached to what?

      • Bill Orange
        05/20/2010 at 7:05 PM

        I think she means “attacked”.

        • AnnaZed
          05/20/2010 at 7:22 PM

          I jest.

  20. Bill Orange
    05/20/2010 at 7:01 PM

    The ME said she recovered about two liters of blood, but I only see one liter from my reading of the autopsy report. Can someone please check my math?

    As to the “missing” blood, one thing to be aware of is that some of it was still in the body. When you bleed to death, you don’t lose ALL of your blood–there’s still some left inside your blood vessels. (I don’t know exactly how much you’d expect, but I know there are ER docs or surgeons who are reading this who could probably tell us.) This wouldn’t be included in the ME’s numbers, since she was only documenting “free” blood in the chest and abdomen. In addition, there may also have been blood recovered from the chest tubes in the ER that haven’t been accounted for yet.

    Also, the total blood volume for a man of Wone’s size is probably closer to five liters than six.

    So there’s a chance that the numbers might “add up” once the defense gets it crack at the ME.

    (I wouldn’t put any money on it, though.)

    • Flood
      05/20/2010 at 7:48 PM

      The human body is like an oil reservoir. Some will always remain once the pressure equalizes with atmospheric.

  21. emg
    05/20/2010 at 8:08 PM

    Dumb question. Did PD ever find cab company that dropped Robert off to confirm time of arrival? Robert had called his wife at 9:30 to say he was leaving. It does not take an hour to get to Swann. Who last saw Robert and what time? Every minute must be accounted for if we are to believe so much transpired.

    Having come in late on this I intitally thought Dylan was the culprit. I absolutely believed Dylan’s interview. He was not involved but is terrified of Joe. His interview lines up with both V & J’s interview as it relates to him. Joe and/or his brother Michael are at the center. Victor is a question mark, but my gut tells me he is saying and doing what Joe tells him. Dylan can’t turn because he doesn’t know anything. Victor is the key. Not only because he knows more of what actually happened (whether or not Joe really came upstairs at 10:45pm), but he is more afraid of prison than he is of Joe’s wrath.

    • NYer
      05/20/2010 at 8:21 PM

      My recollection is that Robert had walked to 1509 Swann Street after leaving RFA offices. His approximate departure time was confirmed by others in attendance at the evening meeting at RFA, which had ended at roughly quarter after 9.

      • interestedoberserver
        05/20/2010 at 11:31 PM

        No, this is not correct. The testimony/evidence is that Robert CLE class ended at around 9pm, then he walked to RFA to meet the 10:00 shift. After meeting the night shift for about 20 minutes or so, he took a cab to 1509 Swann St., arriving at approximately 10:30pm.

        • HKG
          05/21/2010 at 8:12 AM

          can you point me to where it says 10:00 shift? i posted the following below to this link but waiting for moderation —

          i also can’t figure out the timeline.

          to me, the 10:30 arrival seems a little late for everything to be cleaned up in time. unless as others have said, perhaps there were several more people than we know where there.

          has anyone heard of any proof of the 10:22 call from Wone’s office to Swann street as mentioned in the May 31, 2009 WP article? IF that were incorrect, you could imagine that Robert could have left RFA and arrived closer to 10pm.
          // “RFA colleagues remember him arriving back at the station before 10, that he called Swann Street at 10:22”

          Robert and Lindburg took metro from Metro Center, with Robert exiting at Farragut North station. probably calls Kathy just after he leaves Lindburg. so if he took a taxi (after a three hour evening CLE course i know i’d be lazy and take a taxi) from there to RFA, he could have been at RFA just after 9:30. so how long does it take to say hello?

          9:15 class ends / walk to Metro Center (6 minutes)
          9:30 exiting Farragut North station (or in taxi?) calls Kathy Wone (taxi to RFA ~2 minutes)
          [9:33] arrival at RFA / introductions & small talk
          [9:48] leaves RFA / taxi to Swann Street (5 minutes)
          [9:55] possible arrival at Swann Street

          // DC Bar Association to Metro Center
          1101 K Street NW, Washington, DC, United States
          1120 G Street NW, Washington, DC 20005
          Walking directions to 1120 G St NW,
          0.4 mi 6 mins

          // Farragutt North to RFA
          Farragut North Station @38.903298,-77.039501
          2025 M St NW #300, Washington, DC 20036
          Walking directions to 2025 M St NW
          Connecticut Ave NW and M St NW
          0.4 mi 8 mins
          Driving directions to 2025 M St NW
          K St NW and 20th St NW
          0.6 mi 2 mins

          // RFA to Swann Street
          2025 M St NW #300, Washington, DC 20036
          1509 Swann St NW, Washington, DC 20009
          Driving directions to 1509 Swann St NW
          16th St NW
          1.3 mi 5 mins

  22. Mens Rea
    05/20/2010 at 8:16 PM

    I just started following this blog so apologies in advance if I’m asking something that is pretty old news. I read here a few days ago that police found in Ward’s room a device that could cause a drugged or incapacitated person to ejaculate. Is that true? How did that come to light? I had not seen that before.

    • Bill Orange
      05/20/2010 at 8:50 PM

      I think so. Either the police or the prosecutor released a list of many of the items found in Dylan Ward’s room, and a device of this nature was on there. The phenomenon involved is referred to as “electroejaculation” and is most commonly used to collect sperm from domestic animals for breeding purposes. Apparently, it’s also used in the BDSM community with some frequency.

      • To Fair and Balanced Reporting
        05/20/2010 at 9:55 PM

        Do we know at what point this piece of evidence (the electrostimulator) was collected from defendant Ward’s bedroom? Was this evidence collected the day following the murder? Or was there a sufficient interval that someone would have had a chance to ‘sanitize’ the evidence?

        Was the device tested for DNA evidence? Was the decedent’s DNA found on the device? If so, one has to think that information would have been made public by now. If not, publicizing the presence of the device (without tying it to the case) seems somewhat prejudicial and inflammatory to the defendants. And sexual assault is no longer even a charge.

        • Carolina
          05/21/2010 at 2:45 AM

          Were we in a court of law, you might have a point. You’re on a blog, on the internet. It’s more likely that the prosecution chose to focus on the evidence that would prove tampering– no more, no less.

    • Carolina
      05/20/2010 at 9:25 PM

      It is true. It’s in the police documents on file here on the site.

  23. egc
    05/20/2010 at 8:19 PM

    For the people so concerned about the weight. We don’t know what treatments were made at the ER. He could have gotten some blood there, plus they put two central lines in him so they probably pumped him with many liters of saline solution. All that could add to the weight.

    • Carolina
      05/20/2010 at 9:24 PM

      If additional fluids were transfused, wouldn’t that indicate that even MORE blood was lost somewhere along the way?

      Forgive the comparison to inanimate objects, but let’s say it’s a car. You limp into the repairman and he fills your radiator with a quart of antifreeze, but your car still doesn’t run. He decides to drain the radiator and comes up with only two quarts. If a radiator usually holds 6, or even 5, that would mean you lost 4 to 5 quarts before the repairman started work on your car, not 3 or 4.

  24. Clio
    05/20/2010 at 10:45 PM

    Tough crowd, brainfart, and ingrown hair, oh my! It’s all starting to add up to a defense that cannot put up much of a defense. The Thomases, plus Nurse Lujan, have remained credible under withering fire. The “missing” blood and the bloody backside of the T-shirt all point to a cover-up of some sort. Meanwhile, more folks are discovering the thespian dimensions of the 911 call.

    A early checkmate may be on the horizon, so the Four Horsemen should enjoy their payments for services rendered now while they still can!

  25. MarkF
    05/21/2010 at 7:38 AM

    Where’s the Blood?

    I’m new to this site, so excuse me if this question has already been answered. Are there any theories as to where the killing was done and what happened to all the blood?

    If the killing had been done anywhere in the house, shouldn’t there be lots of blood around? Even if the killing had been done in the bathroom, wouldn’t there be traces of it? Or if the killing had been done on plastic sheets or some other disposable items, where are they?

    The lack of large amounts of blood around the house seems to point to a clean up job, which would deny the possibility of an intruder.

    Also, what is the prosecutor’s theory about how they cleaned up all this blood so fast?

    Lastly, is there any speculation that victim was a willing participant in some dark S&M and that it just got way out of hand?

    • Clio
      05/21/2010 at 8:51 AM

      The “missing” blood is the government’s strongest case for cover-up; the Editors have discussed this before, once with a deft use of a post-Civil War political phrase, the “Bloody Shirt.”

      As for Robert being a willing participant in S&M, that dog wouldn’t hunt either. No evidence of even an inkling of Mr. Wone’s interest in any kind of sexuality outside of conventional marriage has surfaced. Thus, drug-enabled assault followed by rape and murder is the most likely narrative, a story that happens all too often.

      • CDinDC
        05/21/2010 at 8:57 AM

        Mr. Wone was also an incredibly honorable man. His friends and colleagues testify to that. He’s not the type of man that would go on the “down low.” Cheating would be the antithesis of Robert’s personality.

    • CDinDC
      05/21/2010 at 8:55 AM

      I believe Robert was stabbed in the bathroom, and his body was rinsed off. Hence, the blood was washed down the drain. I imagine dogs didn’t hit on the drain because the bathtub could be sprayed out very well. (Unlike the patio drain which is probably a coarse iron pipe which is surrounded by porous stone and brick, and the only means of washing the patio is with a hose.)

  26. SDK
    05/21/2010 at 4:16 PM

    Having read about this case non-stop for two days now, I have come to the conclusion that Joe Price had a crush on Robert for years…knowing full well that he was completely straight. He told Dylan about his crush and Dylan decided to do something about it for his submissive partner. Knowing that Robert would be coming to spend the night, he and/or Dylan came up with a plan to make it possible for Joe to finaly realize his fantasy with Robert and something went horribly wrong.

    In order to cover up either Robert coming too and realizing what they were doing, or thinking they had accidentially overdosed him, Dylan stabbed him and they came up with the intruder story. Who knows what Victor knew because just look at what must have gone on right under his nose between Joe and Dylan.

    It seems to me the older we get the more our comfort levels rise, whether it be with cooking, our careers, or our sex lives, we seem to take a little more risk. I’m sure at the age of 32 (or close around there) these guys had seen a lot, done a lot (including drugs and sexual experimentation…considering the type of sex-toys and materials found in the house) and felt pretty comfortable drugging and raping Robert then assuming he would wake up the next morning with a huge headache and a foggy memory of some sadistic dream.

    Or maybe someone got jealous of the very long term friendship. Joe, Joe, Joe…everyone there was all about Joe

    • NYer
      05/21/2010 at 4:30 PM

      I originally had that same theory when I first visited this site last year. But after some time and reading many well-thought-out posts on this site, my opinion changed a bit- I’m of the overall opinion that JP is the main culprit here. While I do think it possible that DW could have carried out the stabbing, I am sure it was done at JP’s behest; I doubt he did it completely on his own volition.

    • galoon
      05/21/2010 at 4:33 PM

      A sound assessment SDK.

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