There Will Be Blood

…Except At Swann Street.

Evidence is everything at trial.  Cases rise and fall on available evidence, regardless of true justice.  Most often, it’s the presence of evidence (DNA, ballistics, a bloody glove, etc.) that determines the prosecution’s path and the defense’s opportunities.  In the Robert Wone case, it’s clear the absence of evidence will figure prominently for both teams – notably, the stunning lack of blood traces on scene.

The Hunt Never Fails...We’ve noted before the prosecution’s contracting with noted FBI blood pattern analyst Robert Spaulding and the defense’s major dollar engagement with celebrity forensic “expert” Dr. Henry Lee.  Both will no doubt spend a lot of energy sparring over the notable lack of blood stain found evidence at 1509 Swann Street.

Just how unusual is this case in the eyes of a trained blood pattern analyst? 

Meet Louis Akin, 25+ year criminal investigator.

“So just what the heck went on there?  I mean, something’s very wrong with this case…”

Welcome to our world.

Louis Akin is no stranger to bloody murder scenes.  In fact, it’s how he makes a living.  His key to investigations?  “People lie all the time,”  he says.  The guilty and the innocent.

When it comes to blood pattern analysis, Akin – a trained analyst – says blood doesn’t lie.

“It’s an art.  A lot of people treat it as a science.  I don’t agree with that, it’s an art.”

Part artist, part scientist, part engineer, a skilled blood pattern analyst can determine the sequence of events at a murder scene, the weapons used, how many people were involved, whether the scene was staged and what happened after.  Only if, however, it’s part of a full crime scene reconstruction.

Blood, it seems, only speaks the truth.  Spilled from a cut, spattered from a blow or smeared from efforts to erase it, blood pattern spatters speak volumes.  Or in this case, their lack.

“Someone was stabbed three times?  Yeah, you’re gonna find blood there.  Copious amounts…gross amounts of blood…” notes Akin. Except, they didn’t.

Blood, apparently, sprays in different ways.  Dropping from a blunt force object, spraying from a direct cut or smeared by a guilty party, blood patterns reveal much about what happened by merit of the dried patterns left on the walls, floors, ceilings, and anything else at hand.

Blood pattern analysis is not pretty“You can show that, at this point, a person was running across the room and they got shot or stabbed here the first time, and they moved two feet forward and got shot again here…that’s easy to figure out.  All based on 100% concrete physics,” notes Akin.

To be clear, Akin has not seen the Wone autopsy report or evidentiary findings of those on scene.  He’s careful to point out he can’t offer detailed analysis based on fragmentary reports.

Still, three stab wounds?

“…One thing I would want to consider is if the person was asleep, or was drugged when they were stabbed.  But even if you’re asleep, instinctively, you’re gonna reach up and defend yourself.  Nothing’s 100%, but generally you’re gonna get wounds on your hands and arms.”

Wounds or marks that were not found on Robert Wone.  One of many things not found on scene.

“I liken it to the old Indian pathfinders tracking somebody,” says Akin.  “They can go out…and they’d find a trial and say the horse was going this way, and there probably two guys because of the weight of the hoof prints,  and they got off and walked that way.  They’re looking at broken pieces of grass and sticks and dirt…they were pretty good at what they did, but to explain it scientifically is pretty difficult.”

Forensic analysts refer to it as Locard’s principle: when a person enters a crime scene, they’re going to leave something of themselves in the scene, and remove something from the scene.

Akin’s take:

If I were going to a crime scene, and the allegation was that someone was stabbed at the door, and had walked from the door to their bed, and this is three stabs wounds, I would expect to find a lot of blood on this person.  They’re upright for the stabbing, their heart is pumping, they’re probably going to start leaning forward, there’s going to be blood all down their front, there’s going to be blood on their hands because people clamp at least one hand to their wound, and there should be a blood trail from the door to the bed. 

At the bed, if he were helped or carried, I would expect to see lots of bloody hand prints and transfer marks on the bed, nearby on the furniture; the blood would have a lot of transfer stains on it, as they’re getting in the bed, laying down, covering up…and then there was supposed to be someone on the phone saying they were holding a towel to the chest? 

Well, when somebody’s stabbed in the chest, holding a towel to it isn’t…you hold a towel to it to compress it, like if your arm is cut, you apply compression to stop the bleeding. 

When you’re bleeding out of your chest and you’re alive – you’re breathing, your heart is pumping – you’re not going to be able to compress that.  And holding a towel there to those wounds, I better find a pretty bloody towel. 

And the one that I saw on the website, the one with one or two spots of blood?  That looks like someone cut themselves shaving.”

We will be following up with more detailed analysis, where we can provide it of the evidence found on scene…and the absence of evidence as well.

-posted by Doug

77 comments for “There Will Be Blood

  1. Meto
    11/18/2009 at 10:59 AM

    I suggest that the “unwelcome intruder” theory just went bust – forever, not that anyone I know bought it.

    • Meto
      11/18/2009 at 11:17 AM

      By “unwelcome intruder” I meant any 4th person whether uninvited or invited by less than all three of the occupants of Swann Street.

    • Jack Stahl
      11/18/2009 at 1:44 PM

      The lack of blood makes sense if wone was already dead when he was stabbed. Once a person dies, the heart stops, and blood pressure drops.
      Given the puncture wounds on Wone’s chest, and given that the device likely used on Wone was never intended to be used outside of a medical environment, my guess is that Wone died first. Then, in the panic, someone came up with the idea of stabbing him to make it look like there was an intruder. Because he is already dead, there isn’t a lot of bleeding.

      • AnnaZed
        11/18/2009 at 1:56 PM

        The ME has established that Robert was alive when he was stabbed and for sometime after, digesting his own blood.

        • Lyn
          11/19/2009 at 12:07 PM

          In addition, if I recall correctly the EMTs said that Robert’s chest appeared to have been wiped clean of blood (i.e., there were traces of blood in a smeared pattern on his torso under his shirt).

  2. Anonymous in DC
    11/18/2009 at 2:40 PM

    But wasn’t there some speculation that the movement of the body could have caused the blood to move, rather than digestion? Can’t seem to find the blog post – anyone?

    • Craig
      11/18/2009 at 4:19 PM

      Anon in DC – I think this might be the post you were thinking of.

  3. CDinDC
    11/18/2009 at 5:00 PM

    Anon and Craig,

    There is also extensive commentary regarding the movement of blood in the GI tract by WH (a physician) at this post.

    WH’s posts were VERY informative. Worth a read if you have interest in that theory.

  4. Clio
    11/18/2009 at 11:13 PM

    So, based upon Akin’s art, can the prosecution argue that the complete lack of defensive wounds leads one to believe that Robert had been drugged, even if the specific drug has not been identified yet?

    • JusticeForRobert
      11/19/2009 at 5:54 AM

      I think the complete lack of defensive wounds leads one to believe that Robert was incapacitated. The patekial hemorrhage in each eye also indicates that he was subject to an “asphyxial event” at some point. The semen discovered on and around his genitals, on his anus and inside of his rectum indicated that he had ejaculated and is suggestive of a sexual assault having taken place. The two pieces of evidence that suggest to me that Robert was in fact drugged is his lack of defensive wounds and the puncture marks found on his body with no other explanation as to why they would be there. Considering that the one person staying on the same floor with him that night also happens to be someone who has studied human anatomy while becoming a message therapist, has a father who is a medical Dr. and specific one who specializes in the heart, and considering that evidence shows by way of the trained dogs that drugs were in both the room of Ward and Price, while circumstantial to some degree it can not go completely ignored either. It is certainly possible that Ward had knowledge of drugs used in surgeries such as Versed. Versed is often described as ” A kind of sleep paralysis – patient is aware but cannot move and cannot communicate”.

    • Craig
      11/19/2009 at 10:38 AM

      Clio – That’s the $64,000 question. I think at the Sept. 11 hearing, buried deep inside the transcript here, was discussion about the Gov being able to offer up ‘negative evidence.’

      Judge Weisberg was pushing back hard on Kirschner’s deputy Patrick Martin.

      I think it comes down to whether the absence of something (defense wounds, signs of restraint, or tailing, etc.) can be presented to the jury in lieu of positive blood tests to further the charges of the injections of paralytics.

  5. Lyn
    11/19/2009 at 12:16 PM

    A big thanks to Louis Akin for his thoughts on this case. I look forward to hearing more analysis or commentary as evidence becomes available.

  6. Nelly
    11/19/2009 at 3:51 PM

    Thank you, Louis. Always interesting and informative to hear from a new expert.

  7. Perplexed
    11/22/2009 at 12:03 AM

    I can’t remember if this question was asked peviously – but is there any possibility that RW’s body could be exhumed to retest the puncture wounds?

    • CDinDC
      11/22/2009 at 1:03 PM

      Perplexed, I remember a conversation a while back about that…..from what I can remember, it can be done (and there would still be body tissue to test, etc.), but it would take a court order (that would be difficult to wrangle up.)

      • Perplexed
        11/24/2009 at 9:40 PM

        I don’t see why his wife couldn’t authorize it….

  8. BenFranklin
    11/23/2009 at 8:09 PM

    There will be blood….and semen.

    I’m a not convinced of Wone’s involuntary electro-jaculation and the sexual assault motives. These are both possible creative forensics tactics in an exceptional strategy to leverage the truth from the tragedy.

    Very elaborate, unlikely, complicated, and creative ways to explain why a straight man would have his own semen on/in him in a house full of gay men. I always look for the simple answer: masturbation.

    After masturbating in his room, Wone was taking a shower and putting in his mouth guard, when he was subdued (playfully? with a towel over his head?) and executed, perhaps after rebuffing an unwanted sexual advance from Ward who likely slaughtered him in the shower of the bathroom they shared with a knife from his cutlery kit.

    For several minutes Ward watched Wone’s blood–pints of it–spiral down the shower drain, as he tortured him with a pin, coldly seeking reflexes to determine when Wone’s life’s was done. Total time elapsed-no more than 15 minutes.

    Sometime later, P&Z descended from their private quarters to find Wone drained of blood, dead & posed & staged by Ward–and then their guardian parent instincts kicked in–concocting a story to protect their dependent family member Ward.


    • Clio
      11/24/2009 at 1:24 AM

      The masturbation explanation does not jive with the placement of the semen, as has been noted by CD, Bea, and many others. No one could get their own seed in the deep place where Robert’s was found. There was no rolled-up hand towel to capture the semen, either: why would any guest just spurt out onto the bed or floor? Of course, Ben, I’ve only read about such male subjects, but I do not buy the Robert-pleasuring-himself- before-his-murder theory because it makes no sense at all.

      Plus, why would anyone beat off in an old friend’s “sardine can” with the creepy little Dyl just around the corner? Why would a married man be aroused by a glass of water, conversation about Lisa, and Joe noting a spider on the light? It’s a yawner cock-block, any way that you look at it, unless you are Joe and Dyl, strung out on something, ready to pounce on an unsuspecting straight man.

      • BenFranklin
        11/24/2009 at 12:03 PM


        I will tell you exactly how traces semen could be found in the rectum from solo masturbation, but it might make you blush.

        When men are in an excited state, pre-seminal fluid containing semen oozes from the urethra often in very generous amounts. It’s a slick natural lubricant that’s great for very smooth and pleasurable insertion. Many men of all persuasions enjoy what is cleverly called “stinky pinky” during masturbation–because the nerves in and around the asshole are erogenous zones.

        For you to claim that Wone would not masturbate is absurd! He’s a normal man, under a lot of stress, away from his wife for the first time in 2 years, in a sexually charged environment! And he could pleasure himself in a private room in ways he would never do at home. It also explains why he needed a shower, and after a powerful orgasm, why a sexual advance from anyone–especially Ward–would be genuinely unwanted.

        I think Ward was miffed at the stern rebuff from Wone who was standing vulnerably in the shower. Ward, goes backstage, gets his knife, and guts Wone.

        Wone’s murder and clean-up are the work of Ward. The homeowners don’t come on the scene until it’s all done.


        • Clio
          11/24/2009 at 12:30 PM

          I am blushing, Ben!

          The brutish ways of men are very mysterious, indeed, but the fact that no trace of his own semen was found on Robert’s hands or on his sleep shirt, etc. greatly diminishes the probability that he engaged in the solitary vice before a shower.

          Dyl may very well be the culprit, but, if so, I think that he used that machine on Robert, who was poisoned not to resist.

          • BenFranklin
            11/24/2009 at 1:56 PM

            Sorry to make you blush dear Clio.

            Before a shower, the first thing a man does after stinky pinky is wash his hands. And the the sleep shirt is not worn during masturbation. Who want’s to sleep in a sweaty nightshirt?

            I’m sorry my offering is not as electrifying the machine and does not make your hair stand on-end nor eyes open wide with delight.


            • Clio
              11/24/2009 at 5:59 PM

              Ben, I can assure you that that machine would not interest me in the least. It seems like too much bother and danger all wrapped up into one contraption, and, most importantly, my husband more than suffices.

              Other questions arise: Why would Dyl need to have that machine? Did he need ever-more-rococo thrills to stave off the intimate side effects of depression?

            • Perplexed
              11/24/2009 at 9:42 PM

              The semen was still on the inside of his thighs, though – so that logic doesn’t make sense – it would have been on his hands, etc., too….

              • CDinDC
                11/25/2009 at 9:44 AM

                Agree, Perplexed. If Robert had “pleasured himself” in bed and died in bed without every having left the bed to wash up, there would be a towel or perhaps evidence on the sheets that he ejaculated where he was laying. But there is none.

        • AnnaZed
          11/24/2009 at 12:41 PM

          You know Ben, I think that you have possibly misjudged your audience here. Speaking for myself I can tell you that there is very little left in this world that would make me blush and that the above hardly registers a two on the blush scale. I think that is probably true for many on this site. I did notice your hasty retreat from speculation that Robert came to Swann St. to engage in sexual dalliances for which he was not known and that would be reasonably understood to be out of character based on known aspects of his character which you simply hadn’t considered, like his having character at all and not being the type of person who would be dishonest with his wife and place her in harm’s way. Now you are bending your theory in ways that you think do not reflect quite so poorly on Robert.

          OK then, let’s go there.

          There is nothing wrong with masturbation. It is a normal part of life. However, the mechanics of your supposition do not meet the facts. Roberts’ semen was found very deep in his cavity. No fiddling with his own digits could have achieved that. Ergo, his semen found it’s way there by means of something other than his own hand.

          I am deeply and profoundly sad for Robert and his family that the nature of his murder demands that speculation about what exactly happened to him sexually must be contemplated and discussed. I have read on other sites speculation that is far more graphic than what is bandied about here and I hope that Mrs. Wone has minions charged with sorting out the truth of these things on her behalf so that she and her supporters can (hopefully) discern the truth without too much added pain for her.

          I still say that the evidence supports a charge of sexual assault, not a harmless moment of self pleasuring.

          • BenFranklin
            11/24/2009 at 1:28 PM


            The rape kits do not test for volume of semen or depth of deposit. It’s a positive or negative test-present or not present. Your claim to know the depth is pure supposition.

            We are all visualizing scenes proposed in a very creative affidavit–provocative, suggestive, of worst case conclusions.

            It is the right of the defendants to lawyer up around their story and it is the right of the government to exercise what is known as “negative leverage” in this stage of the prosecution. The intent on this blog and by the government is to get to truth.

            Nothing is beyond discussion. I see one William and Mary alumnus murdered. I see another destroyed. I see the school cypher on Wone’s shirt slashed and hear our honor code mocked. I support both alumni and I want the truth.


        • CDinDC
          11/24/2009 at 2:23 PM

          Oh for pete sakes. We need another anatomy class.

          Ben, before you even get to the RECTUM, you have to pass beyond the anus and through the rectal canal. The average male rectal canal is 4.4 cm (nearly 2 inches) long. Add the thickness of the anus and the fact that someone self-stimulating could only insert a small portion of a digit into their own anal canal, you would need rather long fingers to deposit anything into your own RECTUM.

          Sure, a detailed autopsy report may provide a measurement detail of where exactly the semen was found inside his rectum, but from “first glance,” it’s not likely that the semen was deposited in this manner. And Robert was a small man. I imagine his hands were not that large.

          And, by the way, the average rectum length is about 4-6 inches.

        • CDinDC
          11/24/2009 at 6:10 PM

          Ben says: “I think Ward was miffed at the stern rebuff from Wone who was standing vulnerably in the shower. Ward, goes backstage, gets his knife, and guts Wone.”

          Oh, so you’re changing your theory now?

          Now we can talk. Ditto, except I think it was Joe who was rebuffed. And the stabbing took place in the shower. Another kernel. Robert was going to take a shower. Perhaps Joe invited Robert to a little 3-some activity. Robert rebuffed Joe. Joe, being Joe, got pissed and attacked Robert. Nobody says no to Joe.

          • BenFranklin
            11/24/2009 at 8:19 PM


            That is where we fundamentally disagree. Price and Wone’s relationship at W+M and afterward was built on a strong foundation engineered by both of them to last a lifetime.

            Price’s preferences & kinks seem too specific and well-developed to make a straight married college chum an interesting or credible sex-fantasy conquest.


            • CDinDC
              11/25/2009 at 9:32 AM


              How many times in life have two people stood on the alter before God, family and friends and then one blows the brains out of the other over the TV remote or finances or an affair or… nauseum.

              I would consider marriage and commitment a strong foundation “engineered by both of them to last a lifetime.”

              Oh, that’s right. W+M alum are virtuous saints that don’t commit crime.

              Your argument is weak. Very very weak.

              • CDinDC
                11/25/2009 at 9:35 AM


                The only things you look at in this case is Joe’s sexual preferences, his W+M degree, and how it relates to your personal world.

                You don’t look at the evidence of the case nor do you look at the psychological background of these men. There has been quite a bit of “testimony” relating the personality and behaviors of these men right here on this board. Joe, dear Joe, had a temper. Temper tantrums can go far south in an instance given the right circumstances.

                • BenFranklin
                  11/25/2009 at 1:40 PM

                  We all see everything through our thick lens of experience.


  9. TT
    11/24/2009 at 10:57 AM

    Ben, where are you coming from? You post”(playfully? with a towel over his head?)”. There is nothing playful about Robert being murdered. After reading your post’s the last couple of weeks it almost seems that your style of writing drifts from grandiose to a spy novel. Seems as if you know one or all of the defendants. Spooky stuff you spew…..

    • Perplexed
      11/24/2009 at 9:43 PM

      TT – I agree completely with you….most of his posts have been strongly implying this – it’s all very interesting…..

      • BenFranklin
        11/25/2009 at 12:40 AM

        TT & PP,

        In case you just tuned in, I’m a W+M alumnus like Wone and Price but did not know them at the time or presently. I have sympathies for both. This means asking hard questions, listening to others, looking into the abyss, and testing novel theories about how this really happened.


        • CDinDC
          11/25/2009 at 9:48 AM

          “novel theories” should also be logical theories.

        • TT
          12/07/2009 at 9:58 AM

          “Tuning” in; being a W&M alumni has little to do with the crime committed.

  10. BenFranklin
    12/03/2009 at 4:23 PM

    Have Ward’s known prescriptions been looked at as a possible way to explain what happened that night?

    We know about Ward’s use of Wellbutrin & Lexapro for depression. Add popular fast-acting Ambien or Lunesta for his “sleeping pill” and we’ve got a zombie capable of “sleep stabbing” a man in the bathtub and then cleaning it up with no memory of the activities. The citations below are from online drug websites:

    “Wellbutrin–is prescribed to help relieve major depression. Symptoms include a severely depressed mood (for 2 weeks or more) and loss of interest or pleasure in usual activities accompanied by sleep and appetite disturbances, agitation or lack of energy, feelings of guilt or worthlessness, decreased sex drive, inability to concentrate, and sometimes, suicidal thoughts or destructive behavior. Wellbutrin is thought to work by altering levels of the brain chemicals norepinephrine and dopamine.

    Lexapro–Call your doctor at once if you have any new or worsening symptoms such as: mood or behavior changes, anxiety, panic attacks, trouble sleeping, or if you feel impulsive, irritable, agitated, hostile, aggressive, restless, hyperactive (mentally or physically), more depressed, or have thoughts about suicide or hurting yourself.

    Ambien [Zolpidem] 1996

    A variety of abnormal thinking and behavior changes have been reported to occur in association with the use of sedative/ hypnotics. Some of these changes may be characterized by decreased inhibition (eg, aggressiveness and extroversion that seemed out of character), similar to effects produced by alcohol and other CNS depressants.

    Other reported behavioral changes have included bizarre behavior, agitation hallucinations, and depersonalization. Amnesia and other neuropsychiatric symptoms may occur unpredictably. In primarily depressed patients, worsening of depression including suicidal thinking, has been reported in association with the use of sedative/hypnotics.

    It can rarely be determined with certainty whether a particular instance of the abnormal behaviors listed above is drug induced, spontaneous in origin, or a result of an underlying psychiatric or physical disorder.

    There have been reports of “sleep-driving,” “sleep-eating,” or other unusual behaviors in people taking sedative-hypnotic medications. In general, people do not remember doing these things when they wake up in the morning. These activities can be dangerous, since people are not fully awake or alert.

    Ambien has been known to cause memory loss (amnesia), when a person cannot remember what has happened for several hours after taking the medicine. This can be a problem for people who use Ambien when traveling. Unless a person is able to get seven to eight hours of sleep, Ambien is not recommended.

    Lunesta [eszopiclone] 2004
    Stop using Lunesta and call your doctor at once if you have any of these serious side effects:
    • aggression, agitation, changes in behavior;
    • thoughts of hurting yourself; or
    • hallucinations (hearing or seeing things)”

    Depersonalization. Look it up…


    • AnnaZed
      12/05/2009 at 12:51 PM

      Oh for Pete’s sake.

    • Bea
      12/05/2009 at 8:33 PM

      Hey Ben, if Dylan’s meds are “responsible” for him sexually attacking then stabbing Robert Wone to death, why won’t he fess up? Seriously, dude. Agree with AZ.

    • SheKnowsSomething
      12/05/2009 at 10:20 PM

      Well … it’s only taken 14 months for someone to raise that cheesy “Dylan was in an ambien fog” notion. When Joe introduces Dylan’s prescription drug regime into his statement to the police during the interview on 2/3 August 2006, we all should have seen him beginning to craft a possible mitigation for Dylan’s actions, in the event a murder charge ever comes. I’ll bet Joe’s strategy all along has been to point the murder investigation toward Dylan, then throw Dylan under the bus by citing his sleep aid usage if things get too hot to handle and murder charges are filed.

      • Clio
        12/05/2009 at 11:28 PM

        Yes, Ben may be signaling Joe’s strategy: Dyl, stop taking those “dolls” and start cutting your own deal with police!

      • AnnaZed
        12/05/2009 at 11:36 PM

        Yes, I smelled that particular rodent move as a fall-back position, and I continue to be cheered by the team trouple’s move towards fashioning a defense for the coming murder case given that the tampering and obstruction defense looks to be sinking fast (and the trial hasn’t even started). We all know what rodents do when a ship begins to sink now don’t we.

        I see some deal making in your future Joe (No Ben, I am not saying that you are Joe.), but probably not the deals that you are envisioning. Maybe murder One down to Man-Slaughter (maybe), but free to scurry about unshackled after blaming it all on poor drug-addled Dylan, I think not. You my friend are in this to far, too deep and for too long for that out-come.

        And Victor (no we haven’t forgotten you), you are being a completely pathetic jerk. No one here has any pity for you any more. That ship has sailed, rats and all.

    • Mike
      12/06/2009 at 7:17 PM

      Good one, Ben. Raping and killing a friend isn’t markedly different from driving or eating, after all. Easy to believe Ward could have done both without their leaving any memorable impressions. I’m convinced.

      But don’t you think it more likely that he ate a couple of Twinkies, went into a “sugar trance” and just couldn’t hold himself back from a sex-murder rampage? We are all but helpless puppets of chemistry (glandular or otherwise). Extenuating circumstances; full acquittal. And Kathy can sue Hostess for a song. Ben you are a godsend.

      So, crackerjack, keep on asking those hard questions and “looking into that abyss”! (Certainly not grandiose W & M parlance for crawling up one’s own butthole.)

  11. BenFranklin
    12/06/2009 at 3:47 PM

    It’s simple, logical, and possible–three critical tests.

    The defendants should make some deals now. Intentional conflation by the defendants & the conflated leverage by the prosecution makes negotiations difficult. I don’t know of any case where the gulf between is wider or deeper.

    I pray the widow can get some relief from the deep pockets of big pharma. Enough legal talent is on board to make it happen.

    “He that would live in peace & at ease, must not speak all he knows nor judge all he sees.”

    –Ben Franklin

    • Bea
      12/06/2009 at 5:50 PM

      Ben, much as your posts amuse me, Robert Wone’s widow is not looking for a pay-out except from her husband’s killers, and Big Pharmaceutical companies simply aren’t to blame. It’s the act of one or more adults, and yes, I hasten to add, possibly one who gets a ‘pass’ from you simply because of where he got his bachelor’s degree (that one makes me laugh every time).

      • Clio
        12/06/2009 at 10:10 PM

        Ben, so if Joe is logical (because of his W&M education), why hasn’t he thrown Dyl under the bus yet? What is he waiting for? Just hinting at Dyl’s prescriptions on the day after is not going to do it.

        Big pharma did not murder Robert Wone, even if it has helped to kill any hope at universal health insurance — causing the needless deaths of thousands. But those b—–s still did not stab Robert, even if Dyl’s mind was clouded in part because of their products.

    • SheKnowsSomething
      12/06/2009 at 10:38 PM

      Ben/Joe/Bernie — whoever the hell you really are — shouldn’t you be making these arguements in court or negotiating this “deal” with the US Attorney, rather than test-driving it here?

    • AnnaZed
      12/07/2009 at 12:05 AM

      Ben, I do not come to this blog to be amused yet the reaction can sometimes be involuntary. You are so amusing.

      Let us set aside reason for the purpose of speculation and for the duration of this post concede that Dylan was acting in a catatonic drug induced fugue state. Improbable (impossible) as it may seem he attacks, sexually assaults and murders Robert and then goes on to drag him around and wash him and pursue some other aggressive and super fast tidying.

      OK then, what’s Joe’s excuse for his actions, behaviors and lies and Victor’s excuse for that matter? In truth, if this absurd scenario were possible and Dylan were by virtue of being drugged not entirely culpable then that makes Joe and Victor’s actions are even more reprehensible, not less.

      Lastly, as for the fantasy of a big pay-out from Big Pharma ~ not a chance in hell once it is demonstrated that Dylan mixed his medication with street drugs over a long period; a thing that I would wager could be easily demonstrated.

      • CDinDC
        12/07/2009 at 1:23 PM

        Maybe “big pharma” for Ben means the makers of ketamine. LOL

  12. BenFranklin
    12/07/2009 at 11:48 AM


    I’m working on a new timeline that integrates many elements found earlier in this thread.

    It’s a very different picture that works with what we know of the evidence. Simple. Logical. Possible.

    I’m not sure when I’m going to get to it because it requires more reading & phone calls. Your advice and patience is appreciated.


    • CDinDC
      12/07/2009 at 1:25 PM


    • TT
      12/07/2009 at 3:06 PM

      Your statement of “It’s a very different picture that works with what we know of the evidence. ” This leads me to believe even more that you know the defendents. The evidence shows the three were involved in this crime. There is nothing “Simple. Logical. Possible ” other than Robert was murdered by the Swann Street characters.

      • BenFranklin
        12/07/2009 at 4:21 PM

        I am within the official alumni society orbit Mr. Wone & within the official & gay & lesbian alumni society orbit of Mr. Price. I did not know either of them then & I do not know Price presently.

        At this fall’s reunion at W+M I reconnected with people who were close to them both while we were all in Williamsburg & in later in Metro DC. Some spoke freely-interesting cocktail party chatter & some gossip not worthy of repeating. Some had nothing to say.

        Everyone agrees it’s tragic.


        • AnnaZed
          12/08/2009 at 12:43 PM

          I tell you if I did not know better based on Robert’s considerable achievements (and even Joe’s) I would be starting to wonder about the level of education actually offered at William and Mary.

      • Clio
        12/07/2009 at 5:07 PM

        Ben: Putting forth a different explanation for 08/02/06 is going to be much more difficult than negotiating the Treaty of Paris, but, then again, you did help to pull off the Constitutional Convention four years later. Anything is theoretically possible, but it must reflect the facts. XO, Clio.

      • CDinDC
        12/07/2009 at 5:20 PM

        Ben says: “more reading & phone calls”

        phone calls?

        • TT
          12/07/2009 at 5:28 PM

          Who are you calling Ben? Thanks CD for pointing this out?

          • John Grisham
            12/07/2009 at 9:41 PM

            “That guy who use to work for that gay, L or whatever paper that use to be in DC who use to shop at that that leather/porn place that use to be around home plate where a good friend of mine use to play for the Nationals.”

            • Clio
              12/08/2009 at 12:48 AM

              LOL, John!

              I did not know that Ben used telephones; they were not invented during his lifetime. But, then again, he is blogging now, so he must be technologically adept. Go figure!

  13. BenFranklin
    12/11/2009 at 12:45 AM

    Last week I saw TV news report about a serial slasher who walked up to several people in broad daylight on the street & on public transportation & stabbed them more than 3 times in the torso with a sharp knife.

    Fortunately no victims died-some were seriously injured & the slasher was recently caught. No one suffered defensive other wounds due to the unexpected suddenness & randomness of the attacks.

    Surprise: the slasher is mentally unstable & on an cocktail of prescription antidepressants & sedatives!

    This story inspired a web search that returned these results:

    “The presence or absence of defensive wounds on the victim may indicate the relationship of the victim to the attacker. Lack of defensive wounds may indicate that the attack was sudden giving the victim no time to put up any resistance or that the victim knew and trusted the attacker before the offense took place.*”

    The suggestion in the affidavits that Wone was incapacitated by drugs may be conflated. I hope the conflated affidavits by the government are for leveraging truth from the tragedy & not from incompetence or prejudice.

    Wone did not expect friend & Rx-zombie Ward to suddenly stab him in the bathroom they shared while he was washing-up after masturbating & putting in his mouthguard.

    Simple. Logical. Possible.



    • David
      12/11/2009 at 9:15 AM


      For this theory to work you need to explain the precision of the knife wounds. While there may not have been defensive wounds, were the wounds of the people attacked by the slasher as precise as Robert’s indicating that no movement of the body occurred when stabbing? And you still haven’t sold me that Robert would masterbate and take his own semen and insert around his anus and into his rectum. Because if you do believe that you are essentially trying to out Robert Wone, and there is no evidence that supports this idea. Please use evidence to help drive your conclusions.

      David, co-ed

      • Clio
        12/11/2009 at 10:10 AM

        The odd placement of the semen is the one piece of evidence that the defendants cannot gloss over: it refuses to be “conflated!”

      • BenFranklin
        12/11/2009 at 11:56 AM

        David & Clio,

        An exquisitely sharp knife rapidly jabbed would create perfect, precise wounds. I can’t compare the quality of the wounds between Wone & the other random victims, but I am beginning to question the quality of the observations & conclusions of the examiner, including the semen observations, but regrettably we must go there.

        Without a towel, Wone may have ejaculated into his hand & smeared it onto his ass knowing he was about to step into the shower. The medical examiner’s swab may have pushed some inside. I favor this simple testing error as the answer. We know this examiner made mistakes.

        Another possibility–I know some are visualizing cream-pies, but if the test is valid, it is possible only trace amounts of his semen made it up there from his own ass-stimulation during masturbation with his own pre-cum-slick coated fingers. Several masturbation videos on show this practice & I will provide search terms to locate them if you wish.

        It could also be a cultural practice: “Taoists would use practices to stimulate/increase and conserve their bodily fluids to great extents… The fluid that contained the most Jing was male semen. Therefore the Taoists believed that men should decrease the frequency or totally avoid ejaculation in order to conserve their life essence.*”


        Another more lurid suggestion is that the Ambien-Zombie slasher violated Wone’s cum smeared ass with a dildo while he was bleeding out.


        • CDinDC
          12/11/2009 at 2:21 PM


          Can you be a little more respectful and steer away from the more sensational wording you are using. You can describe these acts without resorting to language that would be appropriate for a porn magazine.


          • AnnaZed
            12/11/2009 at 4:45 PM

            CD I for one take considerable comfort in the increasingly far-fetched, implausible and tasteless nature of Ben’s contribution to this site. I see in these flailings strong indicators of trouple thinking and for one thing it is very encouraging to note that these flailings don’t even pretend to address the obstruction, tampering and conspiracy charges (treating them as a given) and go directly to the looming murder charges.

            With that in mind it is not prognostication to see Dylan under the bus, ugly attempts to “out” Robert and a curious absence of Joe (or even Victor) in any theories of the crime.

            So, while Ben’s offerings are pretty much irrational and unnecessarily prurient they are tolerable to me in that context.

          • Anonymous Friend
            12/11/2009 at 11:15 PM

            I agree with CD. That kind of lurid X-rated language is really inappropriate, Ben. Some of us actually knew Robert and to us, he was a real person who is still dearly missed. Ben is showing himself to be a total idiot.

            • Clio
              12/12/2009 at 7:06 PM

              Alas, Ben, your Georgian ribaldry is even worse than that of Fanny Hill. Tone it down for the new Victorians, at the very least!

        • Bea
          12/11/2009 at 2:26 PM

          Or, Ben, perhaps an Rx-zombie wouldn’t be able to master such an act – your own story has some crazed guy slashing strangers (doubt there was precision there) – and then have the presence of mind to do an immaculate clean-up, move a grown man’s inert body, and much more. Are you saying that Joe, W&M grad, could stoop so low as to allow his friend to die and concoct a story to prevent the “zombie” from being arrested for murder? Where’s the honor in that? Oh, and who among the three defendants is the largest and strongest – you know, to move a man?

          Your “story” is neither logical nor reasonable based on known facts. Might as well pin it on Sarah while you’re at it. I don’t think she went to W&M.

          • BenFranklin
            12/11/2009 at 3:42 PM

            Wone was likely dead by no later than 11:15 & this is supported by the paramedics keen observations. My story ends there & it’s simple & works with what we know.

            I’m leaving the clean-up discussions to others.


        • former crackho
          12/11/2009 at 4:21 PM

          Wow, Ben. I surprised the defense hasn’t hired you as an expert in such matters! 😉

        • Bea
          12/11/2009 at 4:43 PM

          Oh, Ben, really sharp knives don’t necessarily make more precise wounds – ever “accidentally” cut yourself? Much easier to do with a very sharp knife – my guess is that the slightest movement on the victim’s part would create LOTS of imprecision on the part of the very good and very sharp knife.

          As has been posted, I don’t see it very ‘logical’ for Robert Wone to engage in such behavior and then to have sperm find its way by not only his unlikely action and THEN a mistake by the technician. Agree with CD, too – please, a little decency in use of language as it pertains to the man who was murdered.

  14. AnnaZed
    12/11/2009 at 1:12 PM

    I know that I said elsewhere on this site that culinary expertise does not predispose any person (even Dylan) to a tendency to use knives in ways not intended by the manufacturer, and I stand by that statement.

    What culinary expertise does confer on a person (ok, well, me) is a sophisticated understanding of how knives work. Given that I am an accomplished chef and very deft handler of knives in that context (I can bone things, fillet things and carve things, stuff like that) I can tell you that wildly stabbing at something (even with a high degree of knowledge about what you are doing) creates a very different type of incision from careful piercings. This I am convinced is the distinction that the ME was making about these incisions and I see no reason at this point to doubt her reasoning.

    • BenFranklin
      12/11/2009 at 1:41 PM


      The remarkable visual distinction noted by the ME could be because Wone’s fatal stab wounds were washed clean in the shower–and Ward’s culinary knife was rarely used & exquisitely sharp, unlike knives used in daily household kitchens & in gang slaying the ME is used to seeing. I doubt her reasoning and the quality of her work due to the incompetence that is the rule in every DC agency.


    • CDinDC
      12/11/2009 at 2:23 PM

      Don’t forget that Robert was possibly immobilized. No resistance.

      • AnnaZed
        12/11/2009 at 4:20 PM

        I think the point that Ben was attempting was that maybe Robert was not incapacitated, but I’m not buying.

        • former crackho
          12/11/2009 at 4:25 PM

          I’m also not buying that he’s the type of guy who would jump at the chance to toss one off in such a manner as a guest in someone’s house. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Well, on second thought, there is.

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