Talking Points Memo

More Questions About The Investigation

It’s hard to pinpoint exactly where the sloppy work began in this investigation.

The smart money says it occurred when DC Police failed to hit the red record button on the VCR for the first hour of Joe Price’s questioning.   MPD’s crack  A/V squad then failed to record a large portion Dylan Ward’s interrogation too.   Damn Betamax.  They were off to a great start.

But the night was young and there still was an autopsy to screw up.

Hypo

We learn that Deputy Medical Examiner Dr. Lois Goslinoski “found several needle puncture marks” on Robert’s neck, chest, foot and hand.

She also believed  he was “incapacitated” but not restrained. Unfortunately she wasn’t curious enough to test her hypothesis.

Goslinoski screened for the standard slate of street drugs which turned up nothing, but because she didn’t take tissue samples from any of the puncture sites, the mystery of those wounds remains.

Yet there are those around town who might say that it’s no mystery at all.

Another dinner date brought another WTF moment, this one shared by someone who traveled in the trouple’s circle.

What we heard mirrors much of what’s been assumed to fill much of the affidavit, statements and the 9-1-1 call:  the development of a narrative; an unfolding, fact-filled explanation of the evening’s odd series of events.

Within a month after the public release of the affidavit, some who were close to the defendants seemed to be parroting talking points in an effort to discredit the autopsy findings.  The needle marks some said, came not from injections on the night of Robert’s murder, but were in fact Dr. Golisinski’s own handiwork.

This may lead some to believe that additional chapters of the narrative were being written not long after the affidavit first detonated last fall.

Conducting an autopsy is going to be an invasive process but groups of needle marks on the neck, chest, foot and hand would seem to deviate from standard procedures.  And for the record, Dr. Golisinoski says they were all pre-mortem.

We’ll be curious if the defense actually goes after the autopsy with this theory or if what we heard was the result of someone just floating a trial balloon.  Certainly no pun intended.

Good luck on the stand, Dr. Goslinoski.  Bernie Grimm’s attack on your work may have been focus-grouped.

-Craig

20 comments for “Talking Points Memo

  1. CDinDC
    07/24/2009 at 11:27 AM

    I posted quite a while back regarding “needle marks” during autopsy.

    First the needle marks would have been accounted for at the very beginning of the autopsy. Prior to an invasive examination. The ME does a through scan of the surface of the body prior to the internal examination, making notes of anomalies and gathering surface evidence. After that, the body is incised and the individual organs are examined. Weighing etc. Any blood samples are taken internally. The only time a “needle” is used is to close the incision on the body. There is no reason a Medical Examiner would inject or puncture a corpse.

    The body may go to a funeral home after to be prepared for burial, in which case it will be drained of fluids and then “injected” with embalming fluid. But that is after the ME has completed their autopsy.

    And medical examiners follow rigid examination procedures.

  2. TK
    07/24/2009 at 1:02 PM

    I’m completely ignorant about injected drug use, but it seems like an awful lot of needle marks for one evening. Can someone explain why Robert would have so many puncture wounds from being injected with drugs?

    Thanks…

  3. CDinDC
    07/24/2009 at 1:43 PM

    From “The Ketamine Konundrum” by by James Kent

    “How long does it take to come on? How long does it last?

    Ketamine begins to make itself known about 4 to 5 minutes after intramuscular injection (shorter for i.v., of course, but I have not experimented with this). The first signs are a warmish all-over body tingle, much like Nitrous Oxide inhalation. This initial effect grows in noticable “waves” of penetration into the mind, and by the 10 minute mark, you will be in a very distant state from where you started.

    The Ketamine experience peaks at the 17 to 25 minute mark, hangs steady for about another 20 minutes, and then begins to drop you back down by the 45 minute to one hour mark. Residuals can be felt for a good hour afterward.”

    Perhaps, depending on the dosage, he was injected multiple times to keep him under peak influence.

    • CDinDC
      07/24/2009 at 1:44 PM

      And maximally subdued.

    • Doug
      07/24/2009 at 2:04 PM

      Interesting; thanks for this reference. And according to some K enthusiasts, multiple IM injections speeds the whole process up, taking as little as 1-2 minutes for significant effect. IV injections are magnitudes faster – some recreational users caution to have someone else inject IV because the user could be incapacitated before the injection is complete.
      We hope to learn more detail from the actual autopsy report on this and other questions.
      Doug, co-editor

      • TK
        07/24/2009 at 4:55 PM

        Thanks guys, this makes K sound very likely then.

      • CDinDC
        07/24/2009 at 6:12 PM

        Doug, when do you think the autopsy report will be available?

  4. Clio
    07/25/2009 at 9:42 PM

    Dr. Lois G. sounds like a real winner: has she screwed up any other relatively “high-profile” cases?

    So, like OJ, the trouple will claim that official incompetence and prejudice framed them in a rush to judgment. Priceless!

  5. CuriousInVa
    07/25/2009 at 11:43 PM

    Well, you do have to remember that this trial is NOT for murder. All that has to be shown is that beyond a reasonable doubt they knew more than they were telling the cops evidenced by the obvious staging/cleaning of the crime scene. I’m sure the Defendants will try to throw out anything they can to demonstrate that the forensics were botched overall but I still think/hope the prosecution can carry the day on the lesser charge(s).

  6. TWMont
    07/31/2009 at 7:59 AM

    When this website was initially introduced, I thought that it had the potential to be uniquely helpful in bringing justice to the death of Mr. Wone. In more ways than anyone is probably aware, I suspect that it has at least helped in bringing eventual justice: through the editors and the readers sharing various theories as well as just keeping the crime in the news. But lately the editorialized remarks by the editors seem to be making an already sensational story even more worthy of tabloid fodder. Saying things like, “But the night was young and there still was an autopsy to screw up” seems particularly disrespectful, even given the fact that it appears serious mistakes were made. As a fellow citizen of the District, I too believe that we have the right to hold our law enforcement and other government agencies to a higher standard than appears to be met in this case; but the fact remains that none of the editors have put forth credentials that indicate they are experts in crime scene forensics. Nor do I believe any of the editors have an M.D. Therefore such callous statements-even if in some way they are true-seem to be counterproductive to what is the stated objective of having this site in the first place. The same holds true for making snide remarks about the defendant’s weight in a recent posting. Is weight gain by one or all of the defendants germane to helping solve Robert Wone’s murder? Through that type of editorialized remark, the editors give the impression that they are taking some pleasure in the defendant’s situation. It would come as no surprise that most people have an opinion as to what happened the night Mr. Wone was murdered, and the editors are more keenly aware than most people with the in’s and out’s of this case. But to allow such catty remarks to influence the presentation of various facts and theories on this site only serves to undermine what I believe began as a pretty noble pursuit of justice for Robert Wone and his loved ones. The editors would do well to reflect on the reason they started this site to begin with, and contemplate that mission before publishing the daily posts. It would be a shame if the work that they have done-which is impressive and no doubt time consuming-loses credibility simply because instincts that are more appropriate for junior high school ended up finding their way into the mix of facts and theories that are the foundation of this forum.

    • Clio
      07/31/2009 at 9:10 AM

      Well, TWMont, the “catty” asides to which you refer have not distracted the Editors or their readers, who are spending hours contemplating the primary causes and consequences of August 2, 2006. If poor forensics (that even educated amateurs can sense) and weight gains (that a less-trained eye could pick up) are among those factors, then they can be noted and evaluated by the site and its citizen-pundits. One does not lose credibility by offering the whole truth, even in accessible and, at times, lemony verbiage, although I’m sure that the Editors realize that they will never win a Pulitzer by covering Phelps Collins and Michael Price.

      • former crackho
        07/31/2009 at 9:43 AM

        I believe the weight gain IS important….Sudden weight gain is one of the first things that happens to you once you stop using meth or cocaine. Of course, there could be other reasons, like stress, or a guilty conscience (if you have one to begin with).

        • 07/31/2009 at 7:38 PM

          AMEN, HO.

          I associate the weight gain with the stress of a guilty conscience.

  7. TWMont
    07/31/2009 at 2:25 PM

    Hey Clio, why don’t you go back and read my post. I didn’t suggest that anyone was distracted. It’s all in the presentation. The editors of this site have done a public service, and I applaud the initiative to start it and the wherewithal to maintain it as consistently as they have. But mistakes made-particularly by the MPD and the medical examiner-can be called out without vilifying those agents or agencies. The facts of this case-and yes, the mistakes of this case, too-speak volumes. Editorializing those facts doesn’t serve the stated objective of this site.

    As for the defendant’s weight gain, maybe it is relevant. But the way it was presented (“Living in McLean it seems has not pinched Joe’s food bill, yet”) was mean-spirited and gave no mention to how the noted weight-gain relates to a theory about the murder.

    Many people-those who believe that the defendants are hiding something-probably believe that the defendants merit mean-spirited remarks. My personal opinion is that something doesn’t add up with their story, and that one or all of them are culpable for this murder in some way. But we have courts to dole out justice, not blogs. And when these types of remarks are made in this forum, the editors run the risk of making the defendants more sympathetic than they deserve to be viewed.

    Finally, Clio, are you related to the psychic Miss Clio? Maybe you could consult her for a theory?

    • Clio
      07/31/2009 at 2:52 PM

      TW, are you engaging in the very bitchery that you deplore in others? Is the pot calling the kettle beige here? There is enough hypocrisy in this case without creating more of it in the comments section.

      For what it matters, dear, I am not related to Miss Clio, but I do hope that she and many others know about Robert Wone’s life and death via the edifying efforts of this site.

      I very much doubt that pithy or spicy remarks about weight gains or clothing choices place the alleged monsters of Swann Street and their pathetic satellites in a more sympathetic light. Such remarks do keep readers reading: as long as they are reasonably accurate and sincere, then they are harmless, rhetorical bridges to more weighty topics such as the three parts of the small intestine.

    • CDinDC
      07/31/2009 at 3:27 PM

      TWMont says: “But we have courts to dole out justice”

      And that’s where justice will happen. In the meantime, we’ll discuss the case in the hopes that someone of some importance to the case is look and listen.

      And for good measure, because I can…..Joe is a pig.

      Now back to the 3 parts of the small intestine.

  8. TWMont
    07/31/2009 at 3:29 PM

    Whatev, Miss Clio. Suck my left one.

    • Clio
      07/31/2009 at 6:38 PM

      Thanks but no thanks, TW. Alas, I’ve been a married “woman” for over sixteen years!

      Like so many here, including probably TW, I only wish Victor would grow a pair (of verbal claws, of course) in order to distance himself from his husband and his husband’s back-door “man.”

    • 07/31/2009 at 8:02 PM

      yawn.

      nothing to see here, TWMont; move along.

  9. Robert
    08/03/2009 at 6:32 AM

    I wish to say something about the “presumption of
    innocence” for defendants in a criminal case.

    Given my life and history as civil libertarian, I tend
    to be characterized — accurately– as an absolutist.
    Thus, whether speech is censored by the state or
    political correctness, I deplore what I regard as
    suppression of healthy debate in a democratic
    society.

    Similarly, I reserve right to advocate presumption
    of innocence for defendants outside courtroom.
    But truth is that presumption is a court test for
    judge or jury. There is no violation of our law,
    morality, society or constitution for citizens
    outside the courtroom to presume guilt.

    It is worth noting that United States is probably
    only country where free speech, right to privacy,
    presumption of innocence, right to counsel and
    right to appeal are all guaranteed by constitution
    or law! All of the aforementioned provisions are
    lacking even in so-called Western democracies!!

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