Gates Of Hell

About That ‘Intruder Theory’

In the early hours of August 3, 2006, the defendants were subjected to hours of interrogation at the MPD Violent Crime Branch in Anacostia;  a long way from the million dollar plus townhouse on Swann Street.

1509 Swann from the alley

1509 Swann from the alley

Price for six hours, Zaborsky for eight and Ward sat through a ten hour marathon.  The Post‘s Paul Duggan tells of what sounded like MPD detectives doing the good cop-bad cop thing while playing the gay card pretty ineptly.  Summer stock.

Duggan says the three were consistent with their stories all night.  On page 12 of the first affidavit, more unanimity, they all tell detectives that their intruder theory was “…implausible and made absolutely no sense.”

Implausible why?  Because it sounds so far fetched and fanciful?  Or just by taking the physical barriers at face value.  The rear of 1509 has a six foot high wooden fence off the patio then a ten foot high roll-up security gate behind that.

Pretty high hurdles.  We’ve learned that MPD did check at least one of them the night of the murder to see if it had been breached.

A ten foot security gate like that costs about $7,000 – $8,000 installed.  The  Pooner Fence logo is a common sight in DC alleys, at least in the better neighborhoods like Swann.

They make a racket when rolled up or down and or when there is a good wind.  Sure it can be climbed but it will be pretty noisy.  And climbing could also leave shoe marks, foot prints and finger prints.

Scaling the top part that houses the hub is bound to leave hand marks and finger prints too.  Topped with a layer of summer pollen, tree sap and alley dust those prints would be a clear sign the fence had been scaled.

The MPD did make it back there and according to an official who was part of the investigation, no signs of any foot or hand prints were found on the gate.

How could an intruder have gotten into the rear of 1509 Swann Street without going over that gate?  Implausible meet physically impossible.

Is the slender reed that is the intruder theory getting thinner still?

Whether this off-hand remark is part of the police record and evidence is anyone’s guess.  We’ll have to see if it’s introduced.


69 comments for “Gates Of Hell

  1. lost
    06/09/2009 at 10:30 AM

    How did Sarah the english basement tenant usually go in and out? Does she have her own entry?

    • lost
      06/09/2009 at 10:30 AM

      (I meant, “Did she have …”)

      • David
        06/09/2009 at 10:38 AM


        She had a basement entry at the rear of the house, but from all accounts, she would use the front door more often to enter the house


    • PRG
      06/11/2009 at 12:02 PM

      I’m new here, driven by the rcent WaPo articles to learn more about the case. Has Sarah Morgan been totally cleared of any involvement? The odd phone call she received from Price the morning after the murder and the fact that she met with her housemates that day make me suspicious. Theories I’ve read here about missing paraphernalia that could have been associated with the sexual assault (tarps, bloody sheets, etc.) make me wonder if Morgan was also a co-conspirator who disposed of this evidence. Of course, who alibi must have been thoroughly checked out by the investigators, right?

  2. CDinDC
    06/09/2009 at 12:13 PM

    Craig says: “Scaling the top part that houses the hub is bound to leave hand marks and finger prints too. Topped with a layer of summer pollen, tree sap and alley dust those prints would be a clear sign the fence had been scaled.”

    Excellent point, Craig. I can’t imagine anyone, even Mr. Fastidious, dusting the top of the security gate.

    I wonder if the MPD interviewed people that lived in the row of townhouses across the alley from 1509. If one of the defendants (or Sarah and/or Michael) left with evidence, it surely would have made a clatter to raise that gate at 11-something at night.

    And I assume there is no gate for people entry/exit (only car/garage door entry).

  3. Nelly
    06/09/2009 at 12:31 PM

    That outermost metal security gate was either not there or completely open when I went to take a look in 2007. I don’t remember it being there at all. When was this photograph taken? Nonetheless, that inner fence is very high and would have been extremely difficult for an “intruder” to scale. Or, did Joe Price also leave that door unlocked after looking for a spider?

  4. Anonymous
    06/09/2009 at 12:38 PM

    I don’t remember that gate being there either, lived in the neighborhood. SKS, do you remember it? Was it in the realtor pix?

    • Craig
      06/09/2009 at 1:59 PM

      Nelly – We have the other realtor photos and we’ll look through them again, but I don’t recall seeing many exterior shots in the collection.

      There are also MPD crime scene pics of the patio but I don’t think any of them were taken from an elevation that would’ve shown what was behind the wooden fence.

      • Swann Street Dweller
        06/17/2009 at 9:38 AM

        I live on 1500 block of Swann. I’m almost 100% certain the metal gate was installed by the new owner and was not there in August 2006. You could always call Pooner and ask them.

        • Craig
          06/17/2009 at 11:09 AM

          SSD – Thanks and noted.

          As it turns out we’ve been talking with someone who’s very familiar with the house and property. Inside and out. What we’ve heard so far seems to run counter to several aspects and assertions of the intruder theory.

          More of this will surface here in the next week or two.

          • Anonymous in DC
            06/17/2009 at 3:17 PM


        • Hank Rearden
          06/17/2009 at 5:39 PM

          I live in the neighborhood and I saw the gate installed in the fall of 2008 by the Pooner’s.

          • Craig
            06/17/2009 at 6:18 PM

            Thanks Hank. Love the nick.

  5. NYer wants Justice
    06/09/2009 at 1:29 PM

    I only heard about this case a few days ago after my friend had read about it on Above The Law, yet somehow it got to me and I have been reading about it and thinking about it ever since.
    I have thought of a few interesting points that may not have been discussed so much:

    1. Apparently Victor came home early from a business trip last night and went to bed. What time did Ward and Price expect him to get home? Did they think they would be alone with Wone for a long time frame?

    2. When Victor places the 911 call, the three men believe an intruder has broken in silently and stabbed their friend. If this was me I would lock myself in the bathroom until the police got there. How could they be so sure that the murderous intruder was not still in the house? Is there anything scarier than having an unknown and unseen murderer that may still be in your home?

    3. Is it possible, at least in theory, that the intruder could have broken in much earlier and been hiding in Sarah’s basement apartment for a while?

    4. If the three men did clean up the murder scene, they had quite a bit of stuff to dispose of:
    a. The murder weapon (knife)
    b. Bloody sheets, blankets, towels
    c. Their own bloody clothing
    d. Cleaning products/rags used to wipe up
    e. Possible vials of drug (eg ketamine)
    f. Hypodermic needles
    g. Any sex toys used in the assault
    h. Any latex gloves, etc.
    Where was it all taken? If it was found together the game would be up.

    5. A few people have theorized that perhaps Wone was stabbed after believing he was already dead from a drug overdose. I haven’t seen many say that perhaps the stabbing was part of the sexual assault. Someone might have had a sadistic desire to stab someone.
    The Patrick Bateman character from “American Psycho” comes to mind in this case.

    • CDinDC
      06/09/2009 at 1:55 PM

      Hi NYer! Welcome!

      A couple of things about your post….

      You and me both…..I’d lock myself in a closet….my partner on the other hand, runs to danger. Grabs the nearest heavy object and storms through the house looking for “the noise.” Makes me wonder if the police questioned them regarding this…..”did you look in closets? Did you look for the intruder?” Might get an interesting result if they are asked that separately.

      Re disposal of items…….if Robert were stabbed in the shower (which a couple of us believe….me and Bea) there would little in the way of bloody towels, etc.

      If the defendants (one or more of them) were engaged in a sexual act with Robert, they may well have been naked….no bloody clothing.

      Lord only knows where the knife went. Sarah, do you know?

      • CDinDC
        06/09/2009 at 1:57 PM

        one more thing…..they all appeared freshly showered when EMTs arrived…..perhaps they showered to remove DNA evidence/blood.

      • NYer wants Justice
        06/09/2009 at 2:55 PM

        Thanks for the welcome CD.
        I agree that if they stabbed him in the shower it would reduce the need for towels, sheets, etc.
        But it wouldn’t eliminate it. They would still have to dry themselves and the stabbed body. It would also be difficult to move the body into the bedroom without spilling some blood somewhere. They would also have to do a meticulous cleaning in the bathroom.
        I am still unclear about the “they all appeared freshly showered”- I believe one of the arriving police said that. But we still don’t know for sure if it was confirmed that they had showered. What made the cop say that? was their hair wet?
        Finally, do you really believe Sarah knows something? it seems she would have a lot to lose and very little to gain by assisting in any crime.

        • CDinDC
          06/09/2009 at 4:25 PM

          Depends on if they let him bleed out in the shower. After Robert died, the blood wouldn’t come out in the same manner as when his heart was beating. The beating of the heart is what forces the blood out while living. After death, the blood would pretty much start to settle. There would be some blood seepage due to maneuvering his body, but that could probably be controlled by a wash cloth that could be rinsed out. It wouldn’t be a gush of blood.

          Lack of blood in the bedroom indicates, to me, lack of commiting the crime in the bedroom.

          • Themis
            06/09/2009 at 10:06 PM

            A couple of things:

            First, does anyone know when Sarah’s apartment was first searched? The first search warrant specifically for the basement apartment was not executed until August 15th.

            Second, I noticed on one of the search warrant returns, possibly the first, that the officers seized 3 robes. For what that’s worth.

            • CDinDC
              06/09/2009 at 10:56 PM

              Apparently, that’s what the defendants were wearing when the police arrived. (I figure you know that.)

              • mr.ripley
                06/10/2009 at 1:10 PM

                I am new to this since the Post articles and have becomed facinated and love this site. Perhaps this has been discussed (so many postings to read, but damnit, I’m reading them!), but apropos to this recent thread is what the neighbor heard. Looking at the diagram of the house, the neighbor could have heard much..did he only hear the scream? Not the showering? I assume not. Secondly, I have been curious about Victor’s having “returned unexpectedly” from a business trip. Have the details of that trip been checked out by anyone?

                • Craig
                  06/10/2009 at 4:57 PM

                  Welcome Mr. Ripley. Believe it or not – but the affidavit says only a scream was heard by the neighbor, probably through the common wall.

                  Nothing has been publicly released about Victor’s travels that day or when he may have arrived at 1509. We can only assume investigators looked into it by checking hotel records, flight manifests and with the IDFA.

  6. Craig
    06/09/2009 at 1:54 PM

    The pic was taken yesterday evening.

    I stand by how I interpreted the MPD claim and assumed that it referenced the big security gate, although it wasn’t specified. I assume a wooden fence could show signs of being scaled too, but I thought the rollup was the focus.

    Perhaps present or past owners of 1509 can attest to when the gate was installed. If we hear otherwise I’ll correct / clarify the post.

    • CDinDC
      06/09/2009 at 1:59 PM

      I have a wooden fence and gate like that. I wouldn’t call it a security gate. Hells bells, men, women and children can scale that thing.

      • Nelly
        06/09/2009 at 5:30 PM

        Sure, it could be scaled, but something like a ladder, pole vault, or another person to assist would be needed. That inner wooden and metal fence is at least 9 feet high. Once over the fence, an intruder would have to fall on the ground. Police found no footprints or signs of intrusion out there. Way back when the murder occurred, one of the newschannels had some footage of the back of the home. Channel 4 or 7? It may still be online. It did not show the outermost metal pull-down gate that is in this current picture.

  7. TK
    06/09/2009 at 3:45 PM

    I am pretty sure I can see the top of the gate in the back of the neighbor’s yard, but no sign of that larger gate behind 1509 in the ‘Open House’ pictures.

    But those were taken before the suspects lived there, so possible they installed it?

    Can’t tell from Google Satellite either, though there sure is a lot of stuff on their roof.

    • Bea
      06/09/2009 at 7:18 PM

      Can you zoom in and check that stuff on the roof, say check for shiny metal objects with blades about 4.5 inches long?

      • SheKnowsSomething
        06/09/2009 at 10:07 PM

        The house has a roof deck, kids.

      • 06/09/2009 at 10:56 PM

        No kidding. And perhaps some missing play tarps, rubber gloves, used towels and bedsheets, empty cleaning fluid containers, unaccounted for cameras and camcorders, and Asian bondage porn as well.

    • lost
      06/09/2009 at 8:57 PM

      The affidavit mentioned a patio on the roof, so what we see on the satellite photos are patio furnitures.

      Bing/Live bird’s eye map has better resolution, from different angles. You could see the shadow cast by the roll-down gate, but the it is also a more recent satellite photo; I posted below that I don’t think the roll-down gate existed back then, based on what’s stated on the affidavit.

  8. Craig
    06/09/2009 at 4:18 PM

    Those ‘Open House’ pics were taken before Price and Zaborsky bought 1509.

  9. Anonymous
    06/09/2009 at 4:43 PM

    I could be remembering about the gate wrong too. Anyone else?

  10. lost
    06/09/2009 at 7:30 PM

    From the affidavit:

    No Forced Entry/Nothing Stolen

    … The residence had locks on the front and rear doors as well as a seven-foot security fence and locked security gate encircling a small back yard area (exhibit K)… The entrance is also located within the secured back yard area.

    I don’t think the outer roll-down gate existed back then. The 7-ft fence mentioned in the affidavit is what I think the inner, wooden fence seen on the photo above. On the photo above, there are 2 secured area, the driveway and the patio. The affidavit only mentioned one “secured back yard area.”

    FWIW, the inner wooden fence with its top trellis is not hard to climb at all (I have a similar fence separating my front and back yards). Still, I don’t believe there was a stranger-intruder. There could have been more than four people in that house that night (hence the missing evidence like the murder weapon, bloody tarps/blankets, what-have-you), but I don’t buy the intruder assertion.

    • Craig
      06/09/2009 at 9:11 PM

      Good eye Lost – “…and locked security gate” being the door for the wooden fence, not the rollup? I may have wrongly assumed the MPD official meant the rollup.

      In any event, it was checked and showed no signs of being scaled. I think scuff marks would have been left on the slats and schmutz on top of the lattice would’ve been disturbed.


  11. CDinDC
    06/09/2009 at 11:06 PM

    Craig says: “Duggan says the three were consistent with their stories all night.”

    I wonder if they will ever re-interview them. Sometimes a story can change with time. Certain details fade. someone might slip up.

  12. 06/09/2009 at 11:37 PM

    Can any new visitors to this site help shed some light on a few of the more vexing details surrounding this case? A few details which have puzzled many of us include:

    • How easy would it to be for investigators to detect Robert’s blood/DNA, if massive amounts had been washed down the shower drain. This assuming these investigators subsequently completely tore apart, inspect and examine all of these drain pipes as they have claimed?

    • Can any new visitors here provide us with any further background information on “Tom and John;” the friends with whom Sarah claims to have spent that fateful evening.

    • Are there any drugs/chemicals that, when injected or swallowed, would prevent a person from bleeding externally? Or significantly reduce external bleeding. Even when that person is subsequently stabbed multiple times including once in the heart?

    • Can anyone provide some insight on what Dylan was doing in Fort Lauderdale in 2007-08, while he was giving massages in walking distance of the city’s main BDSM club. Did he ever travel up to Key West during that time?

    • 06/09/2009 at 11:46 PM

      Correction, I meant, “Did Dylan ever travel up to West Palm Beach during that time?”

      I only ask because there was also a suspicious — and potentially unsolved — drug-related stabbing and murder among the LGBT community during that time there.

    • CDinDC
      06/10/2009 at 7:15 AM

      JG says: “• Are there any drugs/chemicals that, when injected or swallowed, would prevent a person from bleeding externally? Or significantly reduce external bleeding. Even when that person is subsequently stabbed multiple times including once in the heart?”

      There are drugs used for hemophilia (clotting agents), but from my research, they don’t clot major gapping open wounds.

      • WH
        06/10/2009 at 8:56 AM

        There are no oral drugs out there that would stop someone bleeding from a big wound, as CD points out. Agents used for hemophilia only replace natural clotting factors that hemophiliacs are missing. There are hemostatic agents you can put on a wound to reduce bleeding, but none would work quickly enough to keep these wounds as clean as they were (and all only work when used with good old-fashioned pressure) The stab wounds were therefore either inflicted after death, or they were significantly cleaned after they occurred.

        Of note, after I suffered two abdominal knife stab wounds from an intruder in my bedroom in 2001, there was blood EVERYWHERE: my blanket, sheets, mattress pad, mattress cover, and mattress itself were all soaked through. My floor, walls, and belongings all were blood spattered. I left a trail of blood as I ran upstairs to call police after the intruder left (since he had conveniently knocked my cell phone out of my hand to an inaccessible place under the bed). And despite all that, my blood loss was not enough to kill me. (Of course I was not stabbed in the chest, as Robert was). In Robert’s case, the lack of blood does suggest a more sterile location of the stabbing (like the shower or outside), or that he was indeed dead before he was stabbed (I know this contradicts the autopsy findings).

  13. Mike
    06/09/2009 at 11:45 PM

    They are all lawyered up now. An attorney would never allow a reinterview. I remember mention of a lie detector that Ward took voluntarily. Not sure it was on this site but was mentioned in the Post question answer session with Duggan. Would love to see the outcome of that and worth mentioning in any FOIA request (although might have been done by a private agency and not in public records). Apparently the other two did not take one.

  14. Lisper Doll
    06/10/2009 at 12:25 AM

    Hey, maybe some the cast members of the Real World who will live at 2000 S Street should be invited into this neighborhood sleuthing! Then the case would finally get some press! Think about it.

    • CDinDC
      06/10/2009 at 7:16 AM

      I’m afraid to think about that. LOL

  15. Dario
    06/10/2009 at 5:17 AM

    I was just thinking that!

    • IKWDI
      06/10/2009 at 6:02 PM

      In response to John Grisham’s question —

      “Tom and John” — I don’t know their last names, but I met them once or twice when we hung out with Joe and Victor back in the late 90s. One is REALLY big (i.e. fat), and the other is REALLY small/thin, fo rhat it’s worth. Nice enough and fairly forgettable… can’t imagine they were at all involved in the night’s events. And the big guy certainly wasn’t scaling any security fences!!

      • SheKnowsSomething
        06/10/2009 at 9:42 PM

        Those descriptions of Tom and John are not accurate.

        • David
          06/10/2009 at 10:04 PM


          So what are Tom and John’s descriptions according to you?


          • 06/10/2009 at 10:28 PM

            So far, based on accounts on this site from all of those who claim to have known the household, “Tom & John” are fictional characters who have never existed.

            • 06/10/2009 at 10:30 PM

              Or did Joe misunderstand that housemate Sarah indended to spend that entire evening away from home at “Tom & Jerry’s”?

            • 06/11/2009 at 12:52 AM

              Kind of telling, that all of the so-called “Swann Street” and “Dupont” insiders frequently posting at this site have so little to say and enlighten us about Sarah and her sleep-over hosts “Tom and John.’

  16. CuriousInVa
    06/10/2009 at 11:02 PM

    I think Robert had something slipped in his water when he was first downstairs visiting with Joe/Ward. Victor was upstairs already asleep. They then took a drugged Robert upstairs to another room (Ward’s?) where they had a tarp down (used for their other activities). Then, after or during the assault, either b/c Robert appeared dead after several more numbing shots, or b/c they (or just Ward) got carried away with the violence (and the knives were in his room), Robert was stabbed.

    I do not think he was initially stabbed in the shower b/c there would have been signs of a fight -defensive wounds or even jagged edges to the stab wounds as he tried to avoid the knife.

    Either way, he was still alive for a time after the stabbing according to the autopsy. Once he was truly dead and the bleeding stopped, he was washed off and put into the guest bed. They then showered. The things that throw me:

    1. Did they put the mouthguard in his mouth afterwards to suggest he was attacked in bed?

    2. Where did all the stuff go? Even if they just wrapped everything neatly up in the tarp once his body had been moved, where did it all go? How could they get rid of it?

    Finally, while I do believe Victor was not involved in the actual death, perhaps we are incorrectly linking the 11:00 or 11:30 scream to finding the body right after the murder. Maybe he screamed when he came upon a murder clean-up already well underway. The fact that Victor seems to also have been just-showered when the EMTs arrived seems to indicate that he definitely got involved in the clean-up.

    I think any hysteria in his voice on the call stemmed from the disbelief of what he’d just found and been forced to deal with.

    • 06/10/2009 at 11:22 PM

      That might be the case, Curious.

      However, I think it might also be that the case that Vicky’s apparent “hysteria” was a necessary theatrical role he needed to (and was well able to) fulfill during a moment of unexpected household trauma.

    • CDinDC
      06/10/2009 at 11:26 PM

      Curious says: “2. Where did all the stuff go? Even if they just wrapped everything neatly up in the tarp once his body had been moved, where did it all go? How could they get rid of it?”

      I don’t think there was a lot of “stuff” to get rid of. Tarps, if they used them, may have been for the urine activities Joe/Dylan were into, but for any other possible assault, I don’t think they would need one. I don’t think they planned way in advance to kill Robert.

      My theory is that they took Robert to the shower to rinse off evidence after assaulting him and he “woke up” enough to know what was going on. They killed him at that point. (Maybe they thought they could get away with the assault if Robert didn’t really remember….ketamine has an amnesiac effect if given in high enough doses.)

      I’ve also heard that when someone goes into a deep k-hole, they can be revived by placing them in the shower. Maybe they tried to revive him and Robert realized what was happening, and they killed him to cover their own asses.

      In any event, I’ve always firmly believed the defendants injected robert with ketamine.

      If you want to see what someone is like on K, take a look at the video I posted yesterday. It’s quite telling on how a person can be completely subdued.

      • 06/10/2009 at 11:43 PM

        Perhaps only Sarah, Michael and a few select friends can eventually answer your first question concerning “where ultimately did the stuff go?”

        I agree with you; previously there had been tarps in Dylan’s room for use during urine activities. They are no longer there.

        Where did they go?

        • Anonymous
          06/12/2009 at 5:45 AM

          I don’t remember where the evidence says there had been but no longer were tarps in Dylan’s room. Can you refer me to the source? That’s very interesting. Thank you.

          • 06/12/2009 at 1:24 PM

            “Culuket” posted that he was into watersports. One would assume that they would very likely keep playsheets or tarps along with all of their other BDSM toys in Dylans room for this purpose. But none were listed as being found and requested on the search warrants.

            Perhaps previous sexual partners will confirm (or deny) as much about the perp’s sexual activities and frequently-used equipment during the trial eleven months from now.

    • Bea
      06/10/2009 at 11:50 PM

      Hi Curious-

      Like CD, the duo (methinks) “thought” Robert had to be killed, they may have moved his inert body to the shower in order to stab him. I don’t think they attacked him while he was showering.

      So, after stabbing him (he’s perfectly still, and lying in the tub), they wash him, dress him, and move him into the “guest” room and place him on the bed.

      Where did all the messy clean-up stuff go? Apparently the same place where the knife went. Others proposed, and I now agree, is that it all went with Sarah Morgan to some out-of-the-way dumpster. Which is why she needed to “not be home” and why Joe made the self-serving (and awkwardly worded) call at 6:00 am saying “don’t go to the house. I’m okay, Victor’s okay, and Dylan’s okay” – NOT “you need to call me before you go back to the house because someone murdered Robert there last night – DON’T go back there until we know it’s safe”. At 6:00 am he doesn’t realize the place is DEFINITELY crawling with cops because he’s been at the police station all night.

      I’m one of the ones who believe the drama in Victor’s voice. Even if he WAS the one to scream, possibly it was upon seeing a bloody Joe, not the crime scene. I think Joe tried unsuccessfully to get him to go along with the ‘dropping the body’ in some other place. Regardless, Victor agreed to go along with (1) saying Joe was with him in bed and (2) not tell what Joe told him – I’m not saying he’s not guilty of “anything” but I suspect when he was on with the 911 operator WAS when he first “saw” all that had occurred. Joe would be smart enough to have Victor make the call – BECAUSE then Victor is compromised “on the record” AND he’s far less likely to screw it up since he doesn’t know what REALLY happened (though he screws up a bit that the knife left with the intruder).

      I realize I sound like a Victor “apologist” – I try to put myself in his shoes and despite moral contortions, can’t imagine NOT telling the truth. But I’m not in love with Joe and don’t fall for his BS – can’t imagine allowing the mistress, let alone having him ‘move in’, and my guess is that the spin Joe put on it SO (wrongly) made Joe out to be the victim in his “kindness” to poor, drugged-up Dylan, or that poor Robert was already dead and there was nothing to be done. My guess is that Joe parceled out the truth to Victor over time – and that like with the mistress and the mistress-moving-in, Victor succumbed.

      I digress. The mouthguard seems to me to be something that may have been in its case next to the Blackberry that Robert had pulled out, or possibly Joe found it in his bag, thought it made the time of death look “later”, as in after 11:00 when they’d all gone to bed. While most of us would be squeamish about placing a mouthguard in a dead man, clearly these were not squeamish men. It’s like the Blackberry “unsent” emails – Joe was “alert” and scheming. When the plan got changed and 911 called, he figured the mouthguard was a nice touch.

      • 06/11/2009 at 12:17 AM


        I usually agree with many of your brilliant assessments. Thank you for these.

        Perhaps they would even be spot on and much more intelligible if not for your peculiarly strong (but yet-to-be substantiated) sympathies for Victor’s innocence.


      • 06/11/2009 at 12:29 AM

        (post interrupted and continued…)

        Robert was also a well-known friend of Joe’s partner, Victor. How is it that Victor is not actively involved in greeting Robert and welcoming him to their house that evening at 10:30ish or so?

  17. Bea
    06/11/2009 at 2:47 AM

    Hi John G,

    From all that’s been written (from the suspects, all ‘suspect’, pun intended), Victor was not supposed to be home that night, at least not until later. Either he was home asleep, or arrived “during”, but I assume that his flight info would be verifiable and for that reason doubt that they’d lie about this particular thing. His coming home was “unexpected” – which is likely verifiable too – and if it was an arduous trip, it doesn’t seem strange that he’d gone to sleep.

    Could he have been up at 10:30 when Robert arrived? It’s possible, but since no one said so – and my take on all that has been written is that Victor was much more “vanilla” than Dylan and Joe – I simply doubt it.

    Okay, being more “vanilla” sexually doesn’t mean he’s less likely to kill, but if Dylan and Joe were planning a tryst, I suspect those were less tame when Victor was gone (or asleep). I can’t think of any reason for them to lie about Victor being in bed and not getting up for Robert’s arrival, unless of course, that he was the murderer and it was part of the elaborate hoax to hide the fact that he was awake. Seems an odd thing.

    Whether or not you believe any part of Victor’s emotional call (a number think that he was “in the dark” about SOME of it, even if he “knew” the truth but hadn’t seen it), one of the only things which rings true is that Joe and Dylan are the more likely pair to have committed the crime. Dylan was down the hall. Joe and Dylan were the ones into S&M. Commenters who knew them said that Victor was the more straight-laced one, often being the kill-joy for Dylan and Joe (no one suggests that Dylan was Victor’s “concubine”). And there’s that he was not supposed to be there, coming home from a business trip.

    I could be wrong. I just don’t see Joe and Dylan lying about Victor being asleep. He may well have screamed at 11:10 upon seeing an unconscious Robert and even have been the one to “decide” to kill him, but that smacks of Joe.

    There had to be a reason to change plans. Because of the clean-up, there had to be an original plan of disposing of the body. That leads me to think that that one of the three discovered the “scene”; because of noise/scream, or because one/more refused to be part of the body-relocation, or sensible thought made them realize that relocation itself would increase getting caught, they changed plans and went with “intruder” coupled with stone-walling.

    I’m not saying Victor is “innocent”. I’m saying only that it’s possible he had nothing to do with the murder and may or may not have assisted in the clean-up. He definitely assisted with the cover-up (is at a minimum an accessory to murder, obstruction AND a co-conspirator to most of the allegations in the indictment).

    I’m quick to admit to HOPING that Victor tells the truth and takes a deal because then the murderer(s) are convicted of murder and not simply conspiracy/obstruction. I think the hope that he was “less” involved with the clean-up is that he’d be more likely to cooperate (and be given a ‘deal’) – if what he did was to wake Sarah, or carry a bag of evidence to her, then maybe looking at a long stretch in prison will not sit right. Forgetting MORAL obligations (which apparently is not hard for the Swann residents), if Victor stabbed Robert, or even washed Robert or carried his body, maybe he feels completely complicit and can’t separate himself from what the other(s) did. But if his ACTIONS were to lie to police then he might wake up nights and wonder what the hell he’s doing in facing the possibility of a lengthy sentence that’s equal to what Joe/Dylan are now facing. Yes, it’s a gut reaction, but I hear something in his voice which is either disorientation from sleep, or disorientation from having just been told a horrible tale, but I don’t hear a man who’s just killed someone. Perhaps it’s a man whose love-of-his-life just killed someone and he knows MOST of it, but not someone who just committed murder.

    I’ll shut up now – if I missed the gist of your question, let me know. None of this is easy because so much is left to scant documents, little verifiable facts, and loads of speculation, but my instinct is that there’s a considerable divide between WHAT Victor did and what I THINK Joe and Dylan did. As I’ve said before, I hope I’m completely wrong and that an intruder was there and killed Robert Wone, but short of that, I’d really like to believe that at least one of them isn’t a cold-blooded murderer. If only a statistical thing, wouldn’t one of them have a trace of humanity and integrity? I’m pinning my hope on Victor Zaborsky.

    • IKWDI
      06/11/2009 at 10:42 AM

      Tom and John are not fictitious, they do in fact exist. I wish I could tell you more, but honestly they are fairly forgettable. I think one was a lawyer for the DC government, if I am not mistaken (the thin little guy). As to the bigger one, I have no idea. The lawyer guy runs downtown, all tanned and stuff without his shirt on. He can’t be more than 5’4″ to 5’6″, a buck twenty in weight…

      • 06/14/2009 at 7:52 PM

        Thanks IKWDI. Do you also know anything about Sarah? So little has been posted on this site about her (compared with the other three members of the household), other than that she might have been of above-average weight, very fond of gay guys, and particularly fond of Victor.

        What kind of work did/does Sarah do? Where is she originally from? What college did she attend? Where did she like to hang out? How did she get to know “Tom and John”? How did she befriend Victor? Is she still in DC now? Which legal firm is representing her? Had she ever met Robert?

    • 06/11/2009 at 1:06 PM

      Thanks Bea. Your arguments make good common sense and, in the absence of much evidence – other than the perp’s own statements – it’s difficult to take issue with them. Yet, I still believe Victor’s involvement and guilt goes much deeper. Primarily because of how close the three have stuck together during the past three years, but also because of a few other oddities:

      • New home owners (particularly in Dupont) are just too boastful and proud not to stay awake until the relatively early hour of 10:00 pm in order to relish showing off their new place for the first time to a mutual friend.

      • There is something weirdly fraternal and ritualistic about finding three clean, nearly equal stab wounds on Robert. Why not just one into the heart? It is as if some sort of bond or “blood compact” was being signified.

      • From the little I’ve learned about their personalities, I would believe that a sober Victor would not hesitate to take command of a catastrophic situation he’s just stumbled upon caused by two drugged up housemates.

      • The “emotional” phone call not only strikes me not as pure theater, but also as theater in which Victor quickly learned and stepped into his part. That is, Victor does not come across as some stooge who is reading a script hastily written and handed to him by Joe. Rather, feels as if Victor was a “method actor” who already “lived through” the experiences of the “character” he needed to portray on the phone.

      Now I agree, I don’t see Victor participating initially in the planned rape of Robert. But I do believe he new about the plans, and was indeed up and around in the house while everything was going on. And that he was a full partner in all decisions and actions from the point Robert stopped breathing from being ODed on drugs onward. It is equally as likely that Sarah stumbled upon the scene and screamed.

      • Bea
        06/11/2009 at 1:57 PM

        We can agree to disagree – and with some good fortune, maybe we’ll all “know” for sure. I just don’t know why they’d all lie that Victor was not there when Robert arrived. Makes no sense to me.

        • 06/11/2009 at 9:30 PM

          Bea, can you imagine Joe dispatching Victor alone up to their 3rd floor bedroom (while he and Dylan continue to clean things up on the 2nd floor) to call in to 911 their first public statement about their delicate situation; and trusting Victor to tell the right story without gaffs . . . . . if in fact Victor had just stumbled on a murder in his house, freaked out, screamed loudly, and then presumably quickly recovered, was well scripted, coached and rehearsed (within a half hour, and most likely less) to deliver the right lines to 911?

          Nah. It’s clear to me that Victor was much more intimate with the details of Robert’s murder than he let on during his call for “help.”

  18. Robert Spiegel
    07/29/2009 at 5:49 AM

    If anybody would have dusted off the security gate,
    it would have been Ward with his OCD. But that would have been after he admitted the intruder.

    In any event: were I an intruder, I would have followed Zaborsky in the front door as he was cUMming home so tired from his “trip.”

    Or maybe while Price was busy chasing spiders out on the patio: he realized that his roommates had been locked out of the house and figuring they were harmless, he let them in the back door.

    Do not tell me that after all you personally have written about bumbling of the DCMPD “Keystone Cops,” you are prepared to assume that they investigated thoroughly Victor’s travel?

    Please! Had there been “schmutz” on backdoor, it would mean that the most likely killer was a political rabbi from Hoboken, New Jersey.

    Where can we find the posted ketamine video?

    Forgive me for saying so, but you should consider yourself lucky to have been stabbed by an intruder.
    Had you been stabbed by 1 of your close friends — like Wone, you might not be alive to tell the tale.

    I have been Privacy Act Officer for a governmental
    agency. Contrary to popular mythology, there are many exceptions to the FOIA. I doubt that FOIA would require the public disclosure of evidence in an on-going criminal investigation or prosecution.

    I hope that your describing Victor as a “kill-joy” was tongue-in-chICK. Though I must say Victor’s
    “You Got Milk” campaign killed my interest in lactose of which many Asians are intolerant.

    The stab wounds were of such a common depth and parallel position that is highly unlikely that they were made while the subject was moving.

    Though I have not seen enough evidence of potential involvement by Sarah, it would make sense that either she or Michael Price “the Mule” carried the Gay activists’ dirty laundry to political dumping site — maybe on Capitol Hill (there’s certainly plenty of Homo Genius dirt there).

    As I have stated repeatedly, the coroner’s report indicates that Wone was stabbed in such a way as to make it unlikely that the incisions were made by three different persons unless they were all members of a surgical team or played one on TV (or in S&M scenes). The stabbing itself is much more likely the work of a trained expert such as one with an expertise in the culinary arts.

    N.B. I have forgotten to tell you all that beside ketamine being used by drug abusers, S&Mers and rapists, it’s being experimented with as medication for those of us — such as Ward and myself — who suffer from bipolarity (manic-depression).

    • des
      07/29/2009 at 9:41 AM

      although i too believe that ward was the one to stab robert, i don’t understand your reasoning. what does going to culinary school have to do with stabbing a human being? yes, you know how to use a knife to dice and chop and maybe even butcher an animal. but none of that happened here. a surgeon would have more skill in that regard than a chef. imho.

    • CDinDC
      07/29/2009 at 1:34 PM

      Robert Spiegal says: CDINDC
      If anybody would have dusted off the security gate,
      it would have been Ward with his OCD. But that would have been after he admitted the intruder.”

      I assume you’re being facetious.

    • CDinDC
      07/29/2009 at 1:40 PM


      If the video I posted is no longer there, you can go to youtube and search for ketamine or Special K. A variety of videos will result. the particular video I posted showed clearly some of the deepest effects of the drug. Nearly complete incompacitation. It is astounding to see.

  19. themis
    07/29/2009 at 8:42 AM


    If you have seen a report of Ward being bipolar, I would love to see it. The only thing I have read was that he was taking Wellbutrin and Lexapro.that combo and a klonipin for sleep (Ward may have taken s hypnotic) is a classic treatment regime for chronic major depression since the Wellbutrin offsets some of the sexual side effects of the Lexapro, and both are activating antidepressants that interfere with the sleep of many.

    This combo is most often used to treat major depression not bipolar disorder..

    Therapy could be changing, but most psychs still don’t rely upon an antidepressant alone to treat bipolar I. Hypomania, the hallmark of a bipolar II, is difficult for most to discern in person, much less from vague social history and broad observations.

    As you know controversy exists even today over whether antidepressants promote kindling and rapid cycling.

    I think it is fair to assume Ward had a mood disorder. Which one can’t be determined based on what I understand to be the known facts.


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